Yeah, especially given he breaks out of the trance afterwards and KNOWS what he did. It's cruel as fuck because Minsc and Jaheira are very old friends and Minsc is generally a kind man (when not going full barbarian).
I have no problem making Shadowheart a Sharran in full at all or ascending Astarion, but somehow that scene where Shadowheart killed her own parents and then asked to have her memories of the event removed somehow disturbed me even by my standards. For some reason. Even I don't get it.
Two more of note from my non Dark Urge run (I have more, but we'll stick with two) are becoming an assassin for Bhaal and ruining the party at the end of the game by eating Astarion.
I still think the whole premice of BG3 is hilarious, 3 powerful Gods of Death come up with a Scheme to give them power, souls and all the evil stuff by controlling a gigantic Mindflayer-Colony.... while not realizing that Mindflayers have no Souls. So even with Champions like Kethric, Gortash and Orin, the Dead Three wont get anything out of it as they can impower their army/get stronger because of it.
Oh, Bane is fully aware of it. If you use Speak with Dead on Gortash you actually get a chance to speak to Bane and he'll bring this up. He says that you don't stoke fear by reaping your own fields, but by burning your foe's. By turning mortals into mindflayers, you deny their souls to their keepers. Bane doesn't care about strengthening himself with more souls, he cares about weakening the other gods.
I think killing mirmydor (the plant things) colony should be up there. They get invaded by absolutes cultists, you help then out by killing those invaders. They name you something like "Life saver/changer" then one of them decides that his grudge is enough for all of the colony to perish so you randomly side with one guy who just has a grudge and kill the whole colony. That sounds way worse then volo IMO. Volo has it cooming. He destroys your eye driven by his delusion. He gets captured by goblins. Comes to your camp pretty much uninvited. I mean that mob is just bad things catching up to him. Well that's just my opinion. P. S. Watching this I realized I could never do an evil playtrough
You should also do a video for the best decisions in bg3 video... There are so many choices that it's hard to pick. Pick the ones with the best outcomes. Just a request!
I usually have Astarion dash with his bonus action (I gave him the mobile feat) and free Volo mid fight. Mid fight, Volo gets a chance to run away and usually lives in my playthroughs.
Nice vid, well made! 👍. One thing, though. Volo is actually a wizard, not a Bard. I know, it's ridiculous, but it doesn't matter anyway as he sucks at both magic and song🤣
OK, so I am weird. I was wondering if you had a "How to be lawful good" tutorial. I am still on my first run through of the game, near the end of the second part and trying not to get tips on gameplay unless I really am stuck. I am playing a mostly good, slightly chaotic female bard. Have you done a purely good guy play video?
One of the nitpicks I have with the game is the most powerful armor and weapons just being on vendors. Not only does it take away from finding powerful items from a big battle. Feel like being evil in Act 1? Dammon dies and you lose access to some of the best gloves for the majority of the game in act 2 and the best heavy armor in the game in act 3. Do the Isobel gank in act 2? Lose out on the best heavy armor in the game. My very first playthru I took a long rest while clearing the goblin camp, which prompted them to run over to the grove and kill everyone while I slept. I just figured "oh well I'll just keep going" having no idea how many items I just deleted from the game. Granted, I've done tons of playthrus since then and finished honour mode, but every time I'm doing act 1, I'm still nervous about long resting because of that initial playthru experience. Evil playthru is fun and all, but there should have been more alternative items only evil characters get access to, rather than just deleting potential best in slot items from the playthru with no real benefit. The shar gear is cool, but extremely niche. If you aren't doing a darkness based party, you probably won't even equip the items you get from killing Dame Aylin. If there had just been a bit more items like that sprinkled around maybe it wouldn't feel so bad, but an eldritch knight thrower with Dammon's armor can hit 27+ AC and face tank honour mode as a lone wolf. Items that powerful belong at the end of brutal dungeon, not on some random vendor you can potentially kill multiple times.
I'm sorry the worst of them all is karlach dying plus astarion is not worth it but is to ascend him because you can become a spawn but his attitude just changes. Either way [ ENGLISH OR SPANISH] FIRST TO MOVE LIKES CAZADOR. 😋😘😍🥰😇 ALYN IS GODLY OR NIGHTSONG🥵
1) Giving Scratch back to Angry Mariah 2) Letting Arabella die 3) Making the deal with the Emperor to kill Orpheus 4) Gale dead, no matter how 5) Shadowheart Dark Justicicar or given to Viconia 6) Lae‘zel ascending and being consumed by Vlakkith 7) Letting Karlach die 8) Astarion ascended 9) Turning in Aylin to Lorroakan 10) Killing Isobel or giving her to Ketheric 11) Raiding the Druid grove and killing Halsin in that turn 12) Killing Jaheira and the other Harpers Just a few more evil choices in my eyes. Sorry, i think no companion is so bad they deserve to die. Of course good and evil is in the Eye of the Beholder …. ;)
Really? Number two is helping Astarion Ascend? And one of your reasons is killing 7,000 spawn? That is designed to be an ambiguous decision for a reason. They wanted us to focus on what it would potentially do to Astarion and not focus on that. I've mapped this out for people but ~sigh~ I guess I'll do it again. The Underdark, home to Drow, Duergar, and Illithid (in addition to a vast quantity of deadly fauna and flora, as well as an assorted variety of lesser known entities. Similar to every other environment in every universe in existence, it's a delicately balanced nightmare that your 7,000 spawn are fixing to infiltrate. Based on the assumption that all 7,000 feral spawn, some of which haven't eaten more than unfortunate crawling things that got to close, in almost 200 years....will six or seven main spawn be able to control them? No. Maybe if it was a few hundred, they could possibly manage, but 7,000.....no. So I will play the optimism game here and say that only 1/3 of the rambunctious little appetites will immediately rush out and fill the sewers. Hope it wasn't night when all this happens because they'll pop out of the sewers like daisies and immediately start killing people and stray animals. A mindless, feral spawn, likely would run out into the sunlight in order to attack someone too. And since we care more about them than we do the people of the Gate, maybe it would be best to release them at night then. Worse though, the optimistic 2/3 of spawn that actually end up in the Underdark..... The Drow would declare war on Baldur's Gate if they found out where they came from. That is, after killing or, more probably, enslaving quite a few of them. The Duergar would kill them for sport, debasing them to no more than the animals they would be behaving as. But worse, how many of them would end up tripping into the Illithid Hivemind? That's food and more hosts for their offspring. It increases the likelihood of another brain rising up and trying to fulfill their ridiculous master plan. On a side note, I'm not defending Ascended Astarion here. I don't care how people view him. The point is, saying the choice is evil and using the 7,000 spawn death thing as a reason doesn't fly. If they were mortal, yes, it would be a bad decision to kill them. But they've been turned into nothing more than rabid dogs by Cazador, rendering the choice ambiguous.
The problem with anyone trying to justify ascending Astarion as a non-evil choice is that you are boiling down the choice of ascending Astarion or not to choosing between sacrificing the spawns or freeing them. Persuading Astarion to renounce the ritual does not automatically lead to the release of the 7000 spawns, since there are several possible choices concerning them. You don't need to be an expert to know that sacrificing the souls of thousands of people who never chose to be what they have become to a lord of hells to give power to an already power-hungry vampire is an evil-aligned decision. The 7000 vampire spawns are first and foremost victims of Cazador's actions, so sentencing them to a fate worse than death for something they are not responsible is nonsense. The game itself shows them to be capable of feelings despite their undead state.
@@captaintortue251 And I do specifically say that my issue is in his usage of a completely ambiguous decision as the primary listed reason for why Ascended Astarion is evil. I am not saying Ascended or Spawn is better. I'm saying that the fact that people do typically free the spawn into the wilds as if that's perfectly fine and not a future driving factor in unbalancing the power dynamics of the Underdark is irresponsible and an evil in and of itself. Look, take Astarion out of the situation. Remove him entirely. And sure, we could leave 7,000 spawn to mold in the cages for all of eternity... but that would be a vast influx of pain and suffering that would cause an imbalance in the way the Weave functions in the Gate. Yep, that's actually a thing. Were they suffering already? Sure, but now they've had the hope of almost freedom snatched out from under them in addition to everything else. Do I feel bad for them? Yes. But they do need to be euthanized.... the likelihood of any of them, especially the older ones, being capable of becoming as high functioning as Astarion and the other conduit spawn, is extremely low. The majority are probably just instinct and hunger. That's on Cazador. And personally, I enjoy sending his ass to the Hells, even if it means sacrificing the rest as well. But, as I have stated many MANY times before, Larian kinda dropped the ball with the latter half of Astarion's story. Especially Spawn Astarion, who gets....let me check my most recent game notes here.... AH YES, mocked by Wyll and joked about by Gale when the sun starts to burn him as if he's been coated in kerosene. All this DESPITE being in an intimate relationship with my adorable sorceress who could call the damn darkness or at the very least, put that man in a heavy cloak! Larian also went through and made A.Astarion make some dumb comments, in order to make him seem so much worse, such as "you are my favourite, after all." Uh huh, that's cute, but he hasn't had a chance to make spawn a day after ascending and you won't be able to convince me otherwise. I wish they had explained why Mephistopheles was even interested in that vast quantity of souls to begin with though. Everyone fixates on Spawn vs Ascended and ignores that question entirely.
@@Ectava For me it's simply a choice between a very explicitly evil option and another option whose alignment will depend on what the player decides for the spawns, whether Astarion is taken into account or not. Sacrificing the souls of thousands of people for personal gain is a fitting choice for an evil-aligned playthrough. Freeing the spawns, I wouldn't say that's a choice a good-aligned character would make at all unless you're playing an idiot who doesn't think about the consequences and relies on luck to make everything work out. It's probably the choice made by many players who declare themselves to be good-aligned to the point of absurdity, so I can understand why it might be a little annoying. Letting them be imprisoned is debatable, because from memory the dialogue with the Gurs after the fight implies that they will be in charge of deciding what to do with them. In this case, the player takes no responsibility whatsoever, and some may find this good-aligned, while others may find it more neutral-aligned. Killing them without sacrificing them for the ritual always seemed to me to be the choice that the game presents as the most merciful for them and therefore close to a good-aligned choice, most NPC will make a comment along these lines and say that it's mercy. I never found that there was the slightest ambiguity regarding the ritual ("an infernal ritual so vile it has never been performed" to quote Raphaël himself). Sentencing 7000 souls to an eternity of torments, I can totally imagine an evil character doing that regardless of their motivation. For a good-aligned character, I can't think of any good reason. As tempting as it might be to turn Cazador's ambition against him and send him to roast in the hells, if it's to inflict the same horrible fate on others who have done nothing to deserve it, it's not worth it. It's perhaps a shame for Astarion, who gets a bitter-sweet ending in his Spawn version, but not all endings have to be perfect, and the epilogue can even lead to a more optimistic tone depending on the dialogue choices, especially if you're romancing him. As for why Mephistopheles needs so many souls... I'm not an expert on the lore of DnD but I seem to remember that souls are one of the main sources of power in the hells, so it's probably a thirst for power on his part, but it's true that the game doesn't go into much depth on this subject.
@@captaintortue251 I'm gonna start with something you said towards the end. Actually, a couple of things you said at the end. Mephistopheles has a particularly ominous title among the Archdevils. That being, "The Researcher". So, while souls can be used as currency, and are sometimes used as power, I feel like it could throw the Hells into an imbalance because of a sudden influx of 7,000 souls into one Archdevil's pocket. Because Withers, who nobody listens to, makes it clear that the game is about balance. And it is, for the most part, until it becomes clear in Act 3 that Larian began to kinda....lose the threads of the plot. The second thing I'm addressing is the behaviour of Spawn in the epilogue. It felt, to me, that he was once more donning the old mask from the beginning of the game. He wants to assure you that he's fine and that he's accepted that shadows are a part of him. Granted, this is Spawn who isn't romantically involved with Tav. The epilogue system didn't seem fleshed out when I looked at it, so I haven't run any other characters through it yet. Another irritation of mine, aside from the horrible dock scene.... The game is very much "choose your own adventure" in the first act, and much so in the second act. In Act three, none of our previous decisions can be altered with a conversation. We're locked in. Period. None of the new decisions really matter. It comes down to a yes or a no, and you follow the path it takes you down as if railroaded. I know that a lot this is because it's a game. And it is a good game. It's easily overtaken my previous favourite and a lot of people feel the same way. Astarion's journey is even my favourite part of the game. But when the game was first released it was obvious to people who knew the lore that Tav had been turned into his Bride after the Ascendancy. I'm unsure as to why, when they altered certain things, they left the Dark Kiss ritual but changed the lines to try and convince us that Tav is a spawn now. (I'm a DM at one of our local game shops, by the way, so I'm filled with way too much DnD lore....) So, without question, A.Astarion as he is now in the Vanilla game, is an absolute twat. I don't think the sacrifice of so many is what led to that though. He is a power hungry bugger throughout the entire game, as well as greedy and bloodthirsty. The reason I can say it's an ambiguous decision though, lies in the very definition of ambiguity. It's a decision that can be viewed by many different people as many different things. You look at the game calling it profane and believe that that means it's evil. I look at it to mean "not part of a religion" as per its definition. And yes, again, Cazador doing what he did is terrible but, the fact is that most of the bleeding hearts (and super toxic commenters) who run around saying that would gladly set all of the spawn free in a heartbeat and that would easily lead to more death and destruction. It makes me glad that we don't live in that universe. And when I mentioned the super toxic commenters, I'm not talking about you. You've probably seen some of what I'm referring to actually.
@@Ectava In fact, I think you gave the main or one of the main reasons why many players treat the consequences of certain choices lightly. Almost everyone agrees that act 3 is treated less richly or completely than the previous ones. We have much less of this impression that our actions have weight, this is particularly true for the story of certain companions like Astarion given that it has no particular link with the main scenario regardless of whether you choose to ascend him or not. For the toxic commenters you are referring to, I have often seen two very specific categories in relation to Astarion's quest. Those who choose to release the spawns without hesitation are generally people who like to play an excessively goody two-shoes character who offers help to anyone asking for it regardless of their nature, especially if they're portrayed as a victim or innocent. In this scenario we can say that fortunately it is only a fiction. Some more nuanced players will make this choice based on the theme of redemption which shines through a lot in the Spawn version of Astarion's plot, in my memories we can even find the diary of one of Cazador's spawns which gives a hint to a possible cure for vampirism. I can't blame them for thinking this solution isn't that bad because the game doesn't give any follow up on the resulting consequences. When Larian Studios announced that they would add an epilogue I had a little hope that these consequences would be mentioned, that the player could feel that it is not enough to have good intentions for everything to end well. But aside from one or two letters implying that things aren't as apocalyptic as some claimed, it felt more like an anticlimatic conclusion than anything else. For those who choose to ascend Astarion, the only problem I have is when they claim that they are making a good-aligned choice based on an erroneous vision of the problem. They says that killing the spawns by sacrificing them will end their misery when it is very clear that it is false when we know the fate reserved for souls when a devil is involved. But even without the devilish side of the ritual, there are no concrete consequences other than living with the weight of having killed so many people. I remember a cutscene that triggers if we choose to give the crown of Karsus to Raphaël, he basically tells us that the immense power that we have offered him will turn hells upside down and that it is only a matter of time before the mortal realms are affected by it and knowing the character it won't be for the better. So I find it hard to believe that giving so much power to an archdevil like Mephistopheles won't have any consequences that will affect Faerun, everything shows that making deals or pacts with devils never leads to anything good. But ultimately... nothing special... apparently Astarion just takes the place of his former master, at least if you don't romance him and that's all. I also regret that the game decides to show the consequences of our choices only for the companions themselves and not for those around them or the world in general, particularly in a universe where certain choices that we may find insignificant at first can lead to larger-scale problems. Ps: Lol, I think I'm going to do like many and tell myself that it's just a game and everyone has their own feeling about it, even if these are interesting discussions I don't remember having written such long messages on a simple video game scenario 😅
I don’t know how you can make any of these decisions as a human being, but I guess we do have people who don’t care about human beings. It’s disturbing to me.
Letting Astarion ascend is EVIL?? We let him gain power and killed vampire spawn that wouldve just fed on all of BG. Honestly if they werent all vampire spawn, I'd understand, but c'mon.. Neutral Evil if we're reaching.
Correction: We sacrifice the souls of 7000 people who did not choose their condition to a lord of hells to allow an already power-hungry vampire to become an even greater threat. So yes it sounds quite like an evil-aligned choice. And why do so many players boil down the final choice of Astarion's quest to a choice between sacrificing the spawns or freeing them? The so-called carnage they could cause is only a hypothetical scenario if we choose the option of freeing them after convincing Astarion not to complete the ritual but it is not the only choice available regarding them ...
I mean, all ascending Astarion gives you is a slightly better bite attack, and in exchange you destroy his personality. Aside from that, you can choose not to ascend him, but still kill the caged spawn if you don't want them running around in the Underdark.
That last one with your knight character reminded me of Sigvald from Warhammer Fantasy - someone who looks like they’d be the stereotypical dashingly handsome hero that’s the embodiment of a knight in shining armour, when in reality their heart is as black as soot and their minds warped and viler than a demons.
I don't really consider the Dark Urge a evil person. You are just following temptation. I did all the bad things by choice ny first playthrough. And it was glorious
@roadjcat The dark urge is like an addic. You can feed the addiction or fight against it. The grove for example. Burning it down at the behest of the Dark Urge is bad yes, but more or less following its nature. Being in full controll, and willfully burning it is true evil. Just my thoughts though.
@roadjcat The Dark Urge is akin to a addict. You can feed it or fight against it. Take the grove fight for example. You can burn it at the behest of the dark Urge and while it is bad. It's basically just following its nature. But burning it while in full controll. Knowing the consequences of your choice. That, is true evil. It's the difference in a Urge, versus a willful choice. Just my thought though.
10:52 Hey, I did this within non-evil RP of Seldarine Drow Assasin (1st headcanon playthrough). I mean, it is solid price for the head for the assassin, who knew that captain was a hag in disguise. Oh well, not like Vanra's mother was living a happy life anyway.
Stopping the ritual doesn't automatically mean sparing the vampire spawns, depending on the choice you make about them. And from the few conversations you can have with some of them before facing Cazador, I don't see how you can conclude that they're all crazy and full of revenge.
Choice 2 can be invalidated as evil if you choose to play as Astarion origin. As you can play Astarion who can retain his humanity. Plus romancing Karlach as Astarion makes it all the better.
I don't see how playing Origin Ascended Astarion as a good guy and loving Karlach invalidates the evil nature of that choice. You're still condemning 7,000 innocent people (apart from Cazador) to a fate worse than death for selfish reasons... I'm not trying to make those who make this choice in their game feel guilty, the game gives us total freedom to play evil roles if we want to and that's what makes it interesting, but why try to minimise the evil nature of certain choices?
@@captaintortue251 And where it is written that all those 7000 people are innocent. By their very nature as undead vampire spawn they represent danger if let to go free. Of whom many are mindless mind you. They are ticking time bombs. Besides them ending in hell is not that much any diferent if they are claimed by whatever deity they worship. Since when claimed their individuality and self awareness is effectively gone and deity can do with them whatever that deity wants. Which is more or less the same thing. Or wall of faithless which will over time erase any soul trapped within it. So not much of a diference.
@@captaintortue251 7000 undead vampire spawn many of whom are mindless mind you. And none of them can be said to be innocent. Releasing them is out of question because of how many innocent lives they can ruin. Imprisoning them is also bad move since you will condemn them to an eternity of torment . Condeming them to hell is not more horifying than anything else. And as any mortal in DnD that is claimed by the god they are sworn to does not get to experience paradise or anything. Since their self awareness, will, all of it is gone and reshaped to be whatever their god wants. Also there is wall of the faithless which is also if not worse then hell since soul is painfully erased from existence. So take your pick. Those vampire spawn are doomed no matter what.
@@milijanpetrovic7228 I don't remember the settings of Dnd and Forgotten Realms well enough about the afterlife and my last playthrough was a long time ago for me to remember if the game is faithful to it or deepens the lore on this subject. But the game is visibly more inclined to show afterlife as a less worse option than damnation to the hells since even Astarion or the Gurs will call it mercy.
No, I believe that would have been the most cursed choices. While there is overlap, the cursed choices include well-meaning actions that end badly as opposed to things that happen purely because of malice.
I killed Marcus first to make isobel think I’m a friend, then killed her after getting her blessing and then I killed kaguya in front of the dark council. My kind of villainy is more thought out and manipulative
Is it "evil" choices? That as bad as you are... you aren't anywhere near as bad as you could be (c) You could save Nightsong and sell her to Lorroakan and then send Isobel to save her, so Lorroakan could kill her in front of paralyzed Nightsong. You could abort Astarion's ascension in a middle when he tasted true power just to piss him off after it (and kill him). But you've chosen mediocre and lazy obvious "evil actions". Shame on you.
The grove has a far worse outcome: You take out Arabella instead, then drop her body next to her parents to see their reactions. Or even worse, when you take out Minthara, basically. It's a terrible thing to happen tbh.
Im gonna say again what i already say many times, Astarions Ascension isnt evil, its moraly grey, i find relise 7000 predators free much more evil way...
Sacrificing the vampire spawns for the ritual sends their souls to the hells and condemns them to eternal suffering, so yes, it's clearly a purely evil choice, because the 7,000 souls you're sacrificing are first and foremost victims of Cazador's actions. And as a reminder: getting Astarion to renounce the ritual doesn't necessarily mean releasing them, there are also other options.
Astarion can end up leading the spawn and giving them a second chance at life. The kids go to their family and they work with it. Ascended astarion takes Cazador's place and becomes an abuser if romanced. Anyone who says they're different is intentionally ignoring how writing themes and parallels work.
@@nordicpush1452 I don't know if I should feel targeted by the remark about Twilight since I've never liked that saga but, Dnd settings/rules or not, in this game vampire spawns are portrayed as having a soul and being capable of feelings unlike their master so I maintain that sacrificing 7000 people in a devilish ritual and sentencing them to eternal damnation is not a morally grey choice but rather an evil-aligned one. [Spoilers] : If the players character persuades Astarion not to complete the ritual, they then have several options regarding the 7,000 spawns: release them, leave them imprisoned or kill them. The third option seems to me to be a much more morally grey choice, because even if it's a tough decision, killing them outside the ritual at least gives them a small chance of having a decent afterlife, since this concept seems to exist in DnD. Even Astarion and the Gurs will recognise this as mercy.
We all know the true worst thing you can do is deliver scratch to the people in baldurs gate.
Should be #1
@@jimmym3352or kill the owlbear cub
I still love that the developers put in that attacking Scratch at camp IMMEDIATELY turns all your allies hostile against you.
There isn't anything even remotely close to this.
Woah now that is just way more than evil
The mind controlling Minsc to kill Jaheira 1000% deserves a mention tbh
Wait, you can do that? Time to start another game...
@@jimmym3352 yes, it it perfectly atrocious, especially if you RP as sort of manipulative Durge, and not just murder hobo, it is such a perfect RP
Yeah, especially given he breaks out of the trance afterwards and KNOWS what he did. It's cruel as fuck because Minsc and Jaheira are very old friends and Minsc is generally a kind man (when not going full barbarian).
I raise my glass to those who had the guts to make this choice in their evil Durge playthrough.
I could never bring myself to do that.
As a Baldur's Gate 2 veteran, that one makes me literally sick. I saw the video and kinda wish I could unsee it. It's absolutely disgusting.
How isn't slaughtering the grove on this? You butcher a room of helpless tieflings at one point.
you get to bang minthara so its understandable
It should at least have been in the honourable mentions along with killing Scratch or the owlbear cub
Look.. I thought I could intervene before they all died, OKAY!?!? 😅
I feel like it's more evil to free yourself of bhal and then control the brain. Doing what he would have, but without the leash
Absolutely
I have no problem making Shadowheart a Sharran in full at all or ascending Astarion, but somehow that scene where Shadowheart killed her own parents and then asked to have her memories of the event removed somehow disturbed me even by my standards. For some reason. Even I don't get it.
Choosing to fight against the minions of Bhaal would likely get you the title... of Bhaal buster
There are some things I can't ever do even on an evil playthrough, and that is giving up Shadowheart and giving Aylin to Lorrekan.
I did that first chance i get
Two more of note from my non Dark Urge run (I have more, but we'll stick with two) are becoming an assassin for Bhaal and ruining the party at the end of the game by eating Astarion.
I still think the whole premice of BG3 is hilarious, 3 powerful Gods of Death come up with a Scheme to give them power, souls and all the evil stuff by controlling a gigantic Mindflayer-Colony.... while not realizing that Mindflayers have no Souls. So even with Champions like Kethric, Gortash and Orin, the Dead Three wont get anything out of it as they can impower their army/get stronger because of it.
Oh, Bane is fully aware of it. If you use Speak with Dead on Gortash you actually get a chance to speak to Bane and he'll bring this up. He says that you don't stoke fear by reaping your own fields, but by burning your foe's. By turning mortals into mindflayers, you deny their souls to their keepers. Bane doesn't care about strengthening himself with more souls, he cares about weakening the other gods.
I think killing mirmydor (the plant things) colony should be up there.
They get invaded by absolutes cultists, you help then out by killing those invaders. They name you something like "Life saver/changer" then one of them decides that his grudge is enough for all of the colony to perish so you randomly side with one guy who just has a grudge and kill the whole colony.
That sounds way worse then volo IMO. Volo has it cooming. He destroys your eye driven by his delusion. He gets captured by goblins. Comes to your camp pretty much uninvited. I mean that mob is just bad things catching up to him.
Well that's just my opinion.
P. S. Watching this I realized I could never do an evil playtrough
4:39 using speak with dead on Arabella afterwards makes it even worse.
Surely you mean makes it better?
I suppose that’s a matter of perspective. In regards to this video, you’re likely correct!
You should also do a video for the best decisions in bg3 video... There are so many choices that it's hard to pick. Pick the ones with the best outcomes. Just a request!
I have tried Astarion's Ascension, Sided with Nere, Sacrifice for Bhaal and In Bhaal's Name. But always with saves before it so I can reload 😆😆😆
Honey not tonight, Big Dan dropped a new vid
The most evil choice is to never play this masterpiece.
True and based
I let Valeria live on my 1st playthrough and afterwards I found out it's not worth at all
I tried to save Volo but after the fight I failed to remove the barrels and he blew up LMAO
I usually have Astarion dash with his bonus action (I gave him the mobile feat) and free Volo mid fight. Mid fight, Volo gets a chance to run away and usually lives in my playthroughs.
I didn't realised that I missed some of these, time to do a rerun I guess.
Nice vid, well made! 👍. One thing, though. Volo is actually a wizard, not a Bard. I know, it's ridiculous, but it doesn't matter anyway as he sucks at both magic and song🤣
Would never betray my favorite waifu Shadowheart. No matter how damn evil i been in a playthrough. And wow no dislikes bro!
Im sure it’s just a mistake, but Detective Valeria is a female in the game. Multiple people refer to them as her, and the voice actor is non binary.
These choices are bald warden approved I hope.
OK, so I am weird. I was wondering if you had a "How to be lawful good" tutorial. I am still on my first run through of the game, near the end of the second part and trying not to get tips on gameplay unless I really am stuck. I am playing a mostly good, slightly chaotic female bard. Have
you done a purely good guy play video?
One of the nitpicks I have with the game is the most powerful armor and weapons just being on vendors. Not only does it take away from finding powerful items from a big battle. Feel like being evil in Act 1? Dammon dies and you lose access to some of the best gloves for the majority of the game in act 2 and the best heavy armor in the game in act 3. Do the Isobel gank in act 2? Lose out on the best heavy armor in the game. My very first playthru I took a long rest while clearing the goblin camp, which prompted them to run over to the grove and kill everyone while I slept. I just figured "oh well I'll just keep going" having no idea how many items I just deleted from the game. Granted, I've done tons of playthrus since then and finished honour mode, but every time I'm doing act 1, I'm still nervous about long resting because of that initial playthru experience.
Evil playthru is fun and all, but there should have been more alternative items only evil characters get access to, rather than just deleting potential best in slot items from the playthru with no real benefit. The shar gear is cool, but extremely niche. If you aren't doing a darkness based party, you probably won't even equip the items you get from killing Dame Aylin. If there had just been a bit more items like that sprinkled around maybe it wouldn't feel so bad, but an eldritch knight thrower with Dammon's armor can hit 27+ AC and face tank honour mode as a lone wolf. Items that powerful belong at the end of brutal dungeon, not on some random vendor you can potentially kill multiple times.
I've made half of those choices with dark urge, one of the most funny run I've plaid lol
I'm sorry the worst of them all is karlach dying plus astarion is not worth it but is to ascend him because you can become a spawn but his attitude just changes. Either way [ ENGLISH OR SPANISH] FIRST TO MOVE LIKES CAZADOR. 😋😘😍🥰😇 ALYN IS GODLY OR NIGHTSONG🥵
1) Giving Scratch back to Angry Mariah
2) Letting Arabella die
3) Making the deal with the Emperor to kill Orpheus
4) Gale dead, no matter how
5) Shadowheart Dark Justicicar or given to Viconia
6) Lae‘zel ascending and being consumed by Vlakkith
7) Letting Karlach die
8) Astarion ascended
9) Turning in Aylin to Lorroakan
10) Killing Isobel or giving her to Ketheric
11) Raiding the Druid grove and killing Halsin in that turn
12) Killing Jaheira and the other Harpers
Just a few more evil choices in my eyes. Sorry, i think no companion is so bad they deserve to die. Of course good and evil is in the Eye of the Beholder …. ;)
There could be one more ultra-evil thing to do - giving a Karsus crown (in exchange for a hammer) to Raphael.
Actually grabbed some iced coffee for this video.
Nice. Ive done a few worse things though in my playthrough tho
Really? Number two is helping Astarion Ascend? And one of your reasons is killing 7,000 spawn?
That is designed to be an ambiguous decision for a reason. They wanted us to focus on what it would potentially do to Astarion and not focus on that.
I've mapped this out for people but ~sigh~ I guess I'll do it again.
The Underdark, home to Drow, Duergar, and Illithid (in addition to a vast quantity of deadly fauna and flora, as well as an assorted variety of lesser known entities. Similar to every other environment in every universe in existence, it's a delicately balanced nightmare that your 7,000 spawn are fixing to infiltrate.
Based on the assumption that all 7,000 feral spawn, some of which haven't eaten more than unfortunate crawling things that got to close, in almost 200 years....will six or seven main spawn be able to control them?
No. Maybe if it was a few hundred, they could possibly manage, but 7,000.....no. So I will play the optimism game here and say that only 1/3 of the rambunctious little appetites will immediately rush out and fill the sewers. Hope it wasn't night when all this happens because they'll pop out of the sewers like daisies and immediately start killing people and stray animals.
A mindless, feral spawn, likely would run out into the sunlight in order to attack someone too.
And since we care more about them than we do the people of the Gate, maybe it would be best to release them at night then.
Worse though, the optimistic 2/3 of spawn that actually end up in the Underdark..... The Drow would declare war on Baldur's Gate if they found out where they came from. That is, after killing or, more probably, enslaving quite a few of them. The Duergar would kill them for sport, debasing them to no more than the animals they would be behaving as.
But worse, how many of them would end up tripping into the Illithid Hivemind? That's food and more hosts for their offspring. It increases the likelihood of another brain rising up and trying to fulfill their ridiculous master plan.
On a side note, I'm not defending Ascended Astarion here. I don't care how people view him.
The point is, saying the choice is evil and using the 7,000 spawn death thing as a reason doesn't fly. If they were mortal, yes, it would be a bad decision to kill them. But they've been turned into nothing more than rabid dogs by Cazador, rendering the choice ambiguous.
The problem with anyone trying to justify ascending Astarion as a non-evil choice is that you are boiling down the choice of ascending Astarion or not to choosing between sacrificing the spawns or freeing them.
Persuading Astarion to renounce the ritual does not automatically lead to the release of the 7000 spawns, since there are several possible choices concerning them.
You don't need to be an expert to know that sacrificing the souls of thousands of people who never chose to be what they have become to a lord of hells to give power to an already power-hungry vampire is an evil-aligned decision.
The 7000 vampire spawns are first and foremost victims of Cazador's actions, so sentencing them to a fate worse than death for something they are not responsible is nonsense. The game itself shows them to be capable of feelings despite their undead state.
@@captaintortue251 And I do specifically say that my issue is in his usage of a completely ambiguous decision as the primary listed reason for why Ascended Astarion is evil.
I am not saying Ascended or Spawn is better. I'm saying that the fact that people do typically free the spawn into the wilds as if that's perfectly fine and not a future driving factor in unbalancing the power dynamics of the Underdark is irresponsible and an evil in and of itself.
Look, take Astarion out of the situation. Remove him entirely.
And sure, we could leave 7,000 spawn to mold in the cages for all of eternity... but that would be a vast influx of pain and suffering that would cause an imbalance in the way the Weave functions in the Gate. Yep, that's actually a thing.
Were they suffering already? Sure, but now they've had the hope of almost freedom snatched out from under them in addition to everything else.
Do I feel bad for them? Yes.
But they do need to be euthanized.... the likelihood of any of them, especially the older ones, being capable of becoming as high functioning as Astarion and the other conduit spawn, is extremely low. The majority are probably just instinct and hunger.
That's on Cazador. And personally, I enjoy sending his ass to the Hells, even if it means sacrificing the rest as well.
But, as I have stated many MANY times before, Larian kinda dropped the ball with the latter half of Astarion's story.
Especially Spawn Astarion, who gets....let me check my most recent game notes here.... AH YES, mocked by Wyll and joked about by Gale when the sun starts to burn him as if he's been coated in kerosene. All this DESPITE being in an intimate relationship with my adorable sorceress who could call the damn darkness or at the very least, put that man in a heavy cloak!
Larian also went through and made A.Astarion make some dumb comments, in order to make him seem so much worse, such as "you are my favourite, after all." Uh huh, that's cute, but he hasn't had a chance to make spawn a day after ascending and you won't be able to convince me otherwise.
I wish they had explained why Mephistopheles was even interested in that vast quantity of souls to begin with though. Everyone fixates on Spawn vs Ascended and ignores that question entirely.
@@Ectava For me it's simply a choice between a very explicitly evil option and another option whose alignment will depend on what the player decides for the spawns, whether Astarion is taken into account or not.
Sacrificing the souls of thousands of people for personal gain is a fitting choice for an evil-aligned playthrough.
Freeing the spawns, I wouldn't say that's a choice a good-aligned character would make at all unless you're playing an idiot who doesn't think about the consequences and relies on luck to make everything work out. It's probably the choice made by many players who declare themselves to be good-aligned to the point of absurdity, so I can understand why it might be a little annoying.
Letting them be imprisoned is debatable, because from memory the dialogue with the Gurs after the fight implies that they will be in charge of deciding what to do with them.
In this case, the player takes no responsibility whatsoever, and some may find this good-aligned, while others may find it more neutral-aligned.
Killing them without sacrificing them for the ritual always seemed to me to be the choice that the game presents as the most merciful for them and therefore close to a good-aligned choice, most NPC will make a comment along these lines and say that it's mercy.
I never found that there was the slightest ambiguity regarding the ritual ("an infernal ritual so vile it has never been performed" to quote Raphaël himself).
Sentencing 7000 souls to an eternity of torments, I can totally imagine an evil character doing that regardless of their motivation.
For a good-aligned character, I can't think of any good reason.
As tempting as it might be to turn Cazador's ambition against him and send him to roast in the hells, if it's to inflict the same horrible fate on others who have done nothing to deserve it, it's not worth it.
It's perhaps a shame for Astarion, who gets a bitter-sweet ending in his Spawn version, but not all endings have to be perfect, and the epilogue can even lead to a more optimistic tone depending on the dialogue choices, especially if you're romancing him.
As for why Mephistopheles needs so many souls... I'm not an expert on the lore of DnD but I seem to remember that souls are one of the main sources of power in the hells, so it's probably a thirst for power on his part, but it's true that the game doesn't go into much depth on this subject.
@@captaintortue251 I'm gonna start with something you said towards the end. Actually, a couple of things you said at the end.
Mephistopheles has a particularly ominous title among the Archdevils. That being, "The Researcher". So, while souls can be used as currency, and are sometimes used as power, I feel like it could throw the Hells into an imbalance because of a sudden influx of 7,000 souls into one Archdevil's pocket.
Because Withers, who nobody listens to, makes it clear that the game is about balance. And it is, for the most part, until it becomes clear in Act 3 that Larian began to kinda....lose the threads of the plot.
The second thing I'm addressing is the behaviour of Spawn in the epilogue. It felt, to me, that he was once more donning the old mask from the beginning of the game. He wants to assure you that he's fine and that he's accepted that shadows are a part of him.
Granted, this is Spawn who isn't romantically involved with Tav. The epilogue system didn't seem fleshed out when I looked at it, so I haven't run any other characters through it yet.
Another irritation of mine, aside from the horrible dock scene.... The game is very much "choose your own adventure" in the first act, and much so in the second act. In Act three, none of our previous decisions can be altered with a conversation. We're locked in. Period.
None of the new decisions really matter. It comes down to a yes or a no, and you follow the path it takes you down as if railroaded.
I know that a lot this is because it's a game. And it is a good game. It's easily overtaken my previous favourite and a lot of people feel the same way.
Astarion's journey is even my favourite part of the game.
But when the game was first released it was obvious to people who knew the lore that Tav had been turned into his Bride after the Ascendancy. I'm unsure as to why, when they altered certain things, they left the Dark Kiss ritual but changed the lines to try and convince us that Tav is a spawn now.
(I'm a DM at one of our local game shops, by the way, so I'm filled with way too much DnD lore....)
So, without question, A.Astarion as he is now in the Vanilla game, is an absolute twat.
I don't think the sacrifice of so many is what led to that though. He is a power hungry bugger throughout the entire game, as well as greedy and bloodthirsty.
The reason I can say it's an ambiguous decision though, lies in the very definition of ambiguity. It's a decision that can be viewed by many different people as many different things. You look at the game calling it profane and believe that that means it's evil. I look at it to mean "not part of a religion" as per its definition.
And yes, again, Cazador doing what he did is terrible but, the fact is that most of the bleeding hearts (and super toxic commenters) who run around saying that would gladly set all of the spawn free in a heartbeat and that would easily lead to more death and destruction.
It makes me glad that we don't live in that universe.
And when I mentioned the super toxic commenters, I'm not talking about you. You've probably seen some of what I'm referring to actually.
@@Ectava In fact, I think you gave the main or one of the main reasons why many players treat the consequences of certain choices lightly.
Almost everyone agrees that act 3 is treated less richly or completely than the previous ones.
We have much less of this impression that our actions have weight, this is particularly true for the story of certain companions like Astarion given that it has no particular link with the main scenario regardless of whether you choose to ascend him or not.
For the toxic commenters you are referring to, I have often seen two very specific categories in relation to Astarion's quest.
Those who choose to release the spawns without hesitation are generally people who like to play an excessively goody two-shoes character who offers help to anyone asking for it regardless of their nature, especially if they're portrayed as a victim or innocent.
In this scenario we can say that fortunately it is only a fiction.
Some more nuanced players will make this choice based on the theme of redemption which shines through a lot in the Spawn version of Astarion's plot, in my memories we can even find the diary of one of Cazador's spawns which gives a hint to a possible cure for vampirism.
I can't blame them for thinking this solution isn't that bad because the game doesn't give any follow up on the resulting consequences.
When Larian Studios announced that they would add an epilogue I had a little hope that these consequences would be mentioned, that the player could feel that it is not enough to have good intentions for everything to end well.
But aside from one or two letters implying that things aren't as apocalyptic as some claimed, it felt more like an anticlimatic conclusion than anything else.
For those who choose to ascend Astarion, the only problem I have is when they claim that they are making a good-aligned choice based on an erroneous vision of the problem.
They says that killing the spawns by sacrificing them will end their misery when it is very clear that it is false when we know the fate reserved for souls when a devil is involved.
But even without the devilish side of the ritual, there are no concrete consequences other than living with the weight of having killed so many people.
I remember a cutscene that triggers if we choose to give the crown of Karsus to Raphaël, he basically tells us that the immense power that we have offered him will turn hells upside down and that it is only a matter of time before the mortal realms are affected by it and knowing the character it won't be for the better.
So I find it hard to believe that giving so much power to an archdevil like Mephistopheles won't have any consequences that will affect Faerun, everything shows that making deals or pacts with devils never leads to anything good.
But ultimately... nothing special... apparently Astarion just takes the place of his former master, at least if you don't romance him and that's all.
I also regret that the game decides to show the consequences of our choices only for the companions themselves and not for those around them or the world in general, particularly in a universe where certain choices that we may find insignificant at first can lead to larger-scale problems.
Ps: Lol, I think I'm going to do like many and tell myself that it's just a game and everyone has their own feeling about it, even if these are interesting discussions I don't remember having written such long messages on a simple video game scenario 😅
I don’t know how you can make any of these decisions as a human being, but I guess we do have people who don’t care about human beings. It’s disturbing to me.
I did all of these things except number 6 in my 2nd playthough when I played as the Dark Urge.
i absolutely cannot do an evil playthrough just bc i love karlach way too much.
You’ll probably have to remake this list again once patch 7 comes out…
Attacking the owlbear baby is truly cruel.
This is a really soft list , sooo many more evil things you can do that didn’t even get a mention.
I mean that's just Homelander!
Letting Astarion ascend is EVIL?? We let him gain power and killed vampire spawn that wouldve just fed on all of BG. Honestly if they werent all vampire spawn, I'd understand, but c'mon.. Neutral Evil if we're reaching.
Correction: We sacrifice the souls of 7000 people who did not choose their condition to a lord of hells to allow an already power-hungry vampire to become an even greater threat. So yes it sounds quite like an evil-aligned choice.
And why do so many players boil down the final choice of Astarion's quest to a choice between sacrificing the spawns or freeing them?
The so-called carnage they could cause is only a hypothetical scenario if we choose the option of freeing them after convincing Astarion not to complete the ritual but it is not the only choice available regarding them ...
I mean, all ascending Astarion gives you is a slightly better bite attack, and in exchange you destroy his personality. Aside from that, you can choose not to ascend him, but still kill the caged spawn if you don't want them running around in the Underdark.
Ah good to hear from you again
That last one with your knight character reminded me of Sigvald from Warhammer Fantasy - someone who looks like they’d be the stereotypical dashingly handsome hero that’s the embodiment of a knight in shining armour, when in reality their heart is as black as soot and their minds warped and viler than a demons.
Nah killed isobel just cause i needed more astarion approvement 😂
What is up with that bow and arrow on his back 😆😆 looks like a broken arrow was shot through the bow 😆😆
Do you know you can give Minsc to Sarevok?
2:36 quick question, what armor is that?
it looks like the Scarlet Leather Armour. possibly dyed Shadeclinger Armour.
I ONLY save Volo so i can get the barrels.
Still on the list of games to play in 2024
Yeah we gotta get you playing BG3!
ironically, tastless...
I don't really consider the Dark Urge a evil person. You are just following temptation. I did all the bad things by choice ny first playthrough. And it was glorious
Curious what your definition of evil is then if it's not acting on the desire to do evil things. 😅
@roadjcat The dark urge is like an addic. You can feed the addiction or fight against it. The grove for example. Burning it down at the behest of the Dark Urge is bad yes, but more or less following its nature. Being in full controll, and willfully burning it is true evil. Just my thoughts though.
@roadjcat The Dark Urge is akin to a addict. You can feed it or fight against it. Take the grove fight for example. You can burn it at the behest of the dark Urge and while it is bad. It's basically just following its nature. But burning it while in full controll. Knowing the consequences of your choice. That, is true evil. It's the difference in a Urge, versus a willful choice. Just my thought though.
10:52 Hey, I did this within non-evil RP of Seldarine Drow Assasin (1st headcanon playthrough). I mean, it is solid price for the head for the assassin, who knew that captain was a hag in disguise. Oh well, not like Vanra's mother was living a happy life anyway.
Thanks for the video
People spare the 7000 STARVED crazy full of revenge vampires? Y'all need help.
Stopping the ritual doesn't automatically mean sparing the vampire spawns, depending on the choice you make about them.
And from the few conversations you can have with some of them before facing Cazador, I don't see how you can conclude that they're all crazy and full of revenge.
They go to the Underdark. As long as they stay there it's all good
Yuhhhh let's goooooo!
Choice 2 can be invalidated as evil if you choose to play as Astarion origin. As you can play Astarion who can retain his humanity. Plus romancing Karlach as Astarion makes it all the better.
I don't see how playing Origin Ascended Astarion as a good guy and loving Karlach invalidates the evil nature of that choice.
You're still condemning 7,000 innocent people (apart from Cazador) to a fate worse than death for selfish reasons...
I'm not trying to make those who make this choice in their game feel guilty, the game gives us total freedom to play evil roles if we want to and that's what makes it interesting, but why try to minimise the evil nature of certain choices?
@@captaintortue251 And where it is written that all those 7000 people are innocent. By their very nature as undead vampire spawn they represent danger if let to go free. Of whom many are mindless mind you. They are ticking time bombs. Besides them ending in hell is not that much any diferent if they are claimed by whatever deity they worship. Since when claimed their individuality and self awareness is effectively gone and deity can do with them whatever that deity wants. Which is more or less the same thing. Or wall of faithless which will over time erase any soul trapped within it. So not much of a diference.
@@captaintortue251 7000 undead vampire spawn many of whom are mindless mind you. And none of them can be said to be innocent. Releasing them is out of question because of how many innocent lives they can ruin. Imprisoning them is also bad move since you will condemn them to an eternity of torment . Condeming them to hell is not more horifying than anything else. And as any mortal in DnD that is claimed by the god they are sworn to does not get to experience paradise or anything. Since their self awareness, will, all of it is gone and reshaped to be whatever their god wants. Also there is wall of the faithless which is also if not worse then hell since soul is painfully erased from existence. So take your pick. Those vampire spawn are doomed no matter what.
@@captaintortue251 Considering how souls and afterlife functions in Forgotten realms. There is no big diference.
@@milijanpetrovic7228 I don't remember the settings of Dnd and Forgotten Realms well enough about the afterlife and my last playthrough was a long time ago for me to remember if the game is faithful to it or deepens the lore on this subject.
But the game is visibly more inclined to show afterlife as a less worse option than damnation to the hells since even Astarion or the Gurs will call it mercy.
Wasn''t this already a video?
No
No, I believe that would have been the most cursed choices. While there is overlap, the cursed choices include well-meaning actions that end badly as opposed to things that happen purely because of malice.
Nice vid!
I killed Marcus first to make isobel think I’m a friend, then killed her after getting her blessing and then I killed kaguya in front of the dark council. My kind of villainy is more thought out and manipulative
Volo is a wizard just fyi
I didn't realize it at first either. The whole thing with him being a crappy wizard pretending to be an equally crappy bard is pretty funny.
Is it "evil" choices? That as bad as you are... you aren't anywhere near as bad as you could be (c) You could save Nightsong and sell her to Lorroakan and then send Isobel to save her, so Lorroakan could kill her in front of paralyzed Nightsong. You could abort Astarion's ascension in a middle when he tasted true power just to piss him off after it (and kill him). But you've chosen mediocre and lazy obvious "evil actions". Shame on you.
The grove has a far worse outcome:
You take out Arabella instead, then drop her body next to her parents to see their reactions.
Or even worse, when you take out Minthara, basically. It's a terrible thing to happen tbh.
Im gonna say again what i already say many times, Astarions Ascension isnt evil, its moraly grey, i find relise 7000 predators free much more evil way...
Sacrificing the vampire spawns for the ritual sends their souls to the hells and condemns them to eternal suffering, so yes, it's clearly a purely evil choice, because the 7,000 souls you're sacrificing are first and foremost victims of Cazador's actions.
And as a reminder: getting Astarion to renounce the ritual doesn't necessarily mean releasing them, there are also other options.
Astarion can end up leading the spawn and giving them a second chance at life. The kids go to their family and they work with it. Ascended astarion takes Cazador's place and becomes an abuser if romanced. Anyone who says they're different is intentionally ignoring how writing themes and parallels work.
@@nordicpush1452 I don't know if I should feel targeted by the remark about Twilight since I've never liked that saga but, Dnd settings/rules or not, in this game vampire spawns are portrayed as having a soul and being capable of feelings unlike their master so I maintain that sacrificing 7000 people in a devilish ritual and sentencing them to eternal damnation is not a morally grey choice but rather an evil-aligned one.
[Spoilers] :
If the players character persuades Astarion not to complete the ritual, they then have several options regarding the 7,000 spawns: release them, leave them imprisoned or kill them.
The third option seems to me to be a much more morally grey choice, because even if it's a tough decision, killing them outside the ritual at least gives them a small chance of having a decent afterlife, since this concept seems to exist in DnD.
Even Astarion and the Gurs will recognise this as mercy.
Killing Nightsong should have been a good thing.
Easily one the most obnoxious character ever created.
The most evil choice is having to play this game with its horrible gameplay