Series Intro | Defining Dissociation: Context & Controversies in the Scientific Field
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- The definition of pathological dissociation provided by Dell & O'Neil will help lay the foundation for the discussions we continue to have on the subject in the future.
Below, we list relevant materials to the topic at hand, and as always, timestamps of critical points for folks who can’t concentrate well on long-form content.
0:28 Considerations when Discussing Literature
1:30 What is this video and why are we talking about this book?
3:49 History of the Book & the Dissociation Definition Controversy
6:13 Controversy 1: Surface vs. Mechanism (semantic)
7:20 Controversy 2: Active vs. Passive Mechanism
8:33 Controversy 3: What experiences count as 'dissociation'?
8:58 Preliminary question: distinguishing Non-pathological vs. Pathological
9:35 Back to Controversy 3
13:09 Dell & O'Neil's Definition of Pathological Dissociation
15:10 Closing: Why, What else, Thank You!
Dissociation and the Dissociative Disorders: DSM-V and Beyond. www.taylorfran...
Dissociation and the Dissociative Disorders: Past, Present, Future. www.routledge....
Constance Dalenberg & Van der Hart wrote chapters in the first edition of the book on normative dissociation & ToSD respectively.
Kirmayer article critiquing ToSD's narrow definition of dissociation (restricted to only pathological multiplicity): www.tandfonlin...
How to access scientific literature for free: AS...
Try yourself first, and if you can't figure it out, DM or email us.
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Happy to see you around here guys 😊❤
Tbh we feel personally that non-disordered plurality shouldn't count as dissociation. We don't feel disconnected from reality or from our body when we switch/when different people front. It's not distressing, which is a big part of how dissociation feels for us.
It frustrates us when clinicians will ask if we're "still dissociating" when what they really want to ask is "are you still switching", and that argument is really what that comes down to
This! Switching isn’t inherently dissociating, especially if you’ve been working with your system for a while.
So happy to see you back. Y'all were the reason why I figured out that I'm part of a collective so it makes me so happy to see you doing this series. The first episode was really interesting and I'm looking forward to future episodes.
Teagan
welcome back!! always love to hear from you all.
your work, research and skill to break complex things down to a level where people are able to understand what’s going on is extraordinary. seriously.
As always, you provide a thorough and balanced discussion of whatever topic you’ve chosen. Thank you. look forward to reading what you’ve linked at a later date.
I hadn't heard the distinction between faculty dissociation and multiplicity, but that makes so much sense. I'm glad to have the language for that now. As for the pathological vs non-pathological axis, I prefer to think of that as more of a spectrum from helpful to harmful, with neutral in the middle.
Overall, great video! Looking forward to more from y'all in the future
it's ironic that you came back with a video now, when i was just diagnosed with osdd-1 yesterday! not specified because we don't fit neatly into either category, although probably 1b. i feel like we're somewhere between osdd-1b and p-did. i have been seeing this therapist for 3 1/2 years now and always said i wasn't looking for a diagnosis (focusing more on managing symptoms from other disorders), but she decided there's enough impairment that she's comfortable diagnosing me. and she thinks there are a wider range of presentations than are usually talked about, as she's seen them with various patients. i think my experiences along with others' is why multiplicity/plurality should be seen as more of a spectrum, including both pathological and non-pathological presentations, with a lot of us being somewhere in between the two.
anyway, excited for the series and glad you're back! your videos about your experiences with being a system were helpful in describing some of my own experiences to our therapist, even if some have some outdated information. they are still helpful and i'm glad you're keeping them up. :)
This is super interesting. In terms of the squares, we call all four squares dissociation when explaining to other people for simplicity of them, but our internal definition is usually pathological.
Welcome back! Great video, looking forward to whatever you do next
Recently started following, what a wonderful surprise! Thank you all for your hard work.
Looking forward to it! Have always found great value in your vids. Thanks!
Very nice to see you all again 😊
It’s great to see you guys making videos again! Yeesh a video from y’all and a video from Oak in the Alexandrite system so close together, what a treat😊
Look forward to seeing more videos from you.
I found this channel about a year ago when i first discovered I had DID and today decided to back and watch some of your videos again and happened to see that you had a new one since i last looked. Your channel has been helpful to me.
Glad to see you are back :)
so happy to see y’all posting again, your videos were unbelievably helpful for me during highschool when i discovered i was a system ❤❤
You're finally back!!!! I'm so happy, been watching your videos for awhile and they are very helpful
(This one is aswell)
We were delightfully pleased to see a new video pop up from you all!
Great to see you again :D
So glad to see you again! Exciting
Welcome back! One of our headmates is your biggest fan :3
So good to see yall!
welcome back!! i love you guys videos!!
You look so great! Great to see you!
I'd like to find out
a) the exact brain activities that define each of the four quadrants
b) brain activity variations within each quadrant, which define different dissociative states
OMG we were reading this same book!!
Omg you're back!!!
OMG!!!!! WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!
Welcome back 😊
I'm questioning whether I'm an osdd-1b system for a buncha different reasons and it's really confusing. I've been doing research for a while and checked out the dsm5, DES and other sites, I'm about 90% sure by this point that I likely have osdd-1b, but if anyone has any more resources or any advice for how to go about this I would be unbelievably grateful!
I find isolating the definition to pathological dissociation a bad idea.
It doesn't help at all and would probably result in the separation of the research into pathological dissociation from the rest. There is already a big separation between research and therapy in psychology, there is no need to make it bigger.
I (and many researchers) agree. As I hope to get into throughout this series, the theory of structural dissociation is highly criticized by scholars throughout the field for this & many other assertions that are often not talked about in the DID community. If you’re interested, you can find a lot of discussion on this specific topic in the special section of this journal issue (near the bottom of the page):
www.tandfonline.com/toc/wjtd20/12/4?nav=tocList
@@TheRingsSystemThanks! I'll read it. I'll be waiting for your next video.
Great to see you back. It does not seem right that only pathological multiplicity be called dissociation. People with PTSD can dissociate. Dissociation is part of the definition of borderline personality disorder. I look forward to your future videos.
you, the alexandrites, and the redwoods have all helped contribute to my interest in did/osdd research and activism pertaining to neurodivergency so thank you for yet another insightful video
Hello Rings System,
we really liked the video and will definitely take a look at the book!
As it happens, we are also currently writing a text about defining "dissociation" (among other things) for our institute IfPP, but more from a philosophical than a psychological perspective, but we will definitely take this as an opportunity to learn about the psychological perspective, as it might be a good entry point into it for us, since we didn't take psychology courses at a University yet.
Also, we see some overlap of our own model to the model presented here, but also a lot of differences. We made both differentiations of "essential" and "existential" multiplicity, and of the difference between "dissociative" and "plural" multiplicity, which somewhat map to the distinction between dissociation of faculty or as multiplicity, but not quite.
(If you're interested we can also send you a working copy of the text; I will want to revise it after looking through that book, but it might be interesting nonetheless to see something from a very different perspective, in my case of phenomonological philosophy, coming to similar but slightly different distinctions)
In any way, we do look forward to seeing what other sources you can present us with, and hope that for us and for the institute we can make use of that understanding, can build a (necessarily critical, but also valuing and analytical) interdisciplinary connection to that already ongoing effort into researching the plural mind and its materializations.
Hypatia of Sva.
[I wrote this comment before (minus a type / small correction) and it somehow got deleted, I'm not quite sure, maybe this is because it had a link in it, so I took that out. In case this was a problem on our side, and the original comment got through, we can delete this comment to make it less confusing for later viewers, we're just a bit confused about that atm. - HoS.]
Hello! Your project sounds fascinating! Along those lines, you might be interested in Elizabeth Schechter’s recent work on plural identity. This is a recent talk she gave on the subject, and I know she is working towards publication of 1-2 papers. m.ua-cam.com/video/kIuRQcaOMjo/v-deo.html
Feel free to reach out to us over email! (Bottom of video description, theringssystemosdd@gmail.com) we’d love to hear more. We also have a few other philosophy papers related to dissociation / plurality I could send your way!
Also, re: the comment disappearing, all comments are held for review and approved by us. People come through the comments section and reply to random systems (sometimes years old comments!) with hate. So for that reason, everything is filtered.
@@TheRingsSystemThank you! We will send you an email then! - Hypatia & Wnbwi of Sva
@@TheRingsSystem Hello Rings System,
Before this is too long ago, I wanted to ask you if the mail actually reached you or not since I sent it a few days ago. I heard about mails from other providers not being accepted on gmail, so this might have been an issue; if it did arrive and it takes you some time to think about it, that's not problem, but I would like to know if there is a technical issue or not.
Hypatia of Sva.
Got it! Busy weekend 😅
Hi I recently discovered I'm a system & didn't know it! First video I've watched since after discovering this. (I say since after discovering it, I can't tell how long I've had it even tho pre-discovery me would've denied it)
But yea awesome to find a resource about this! Shalt go back & watch more
HELL FUCKIN YEAH THEY'RE BACK
Y’all have helped me so much!!! I’m so happy to see you again ❤❤❤
I think I have OSDD-1b but the only part that’s confusing is that it feels like we can prevent other alters from coming out once we are out but sometimes they try to co-front just to express themselves I’d appreciate it if you could help me understand what’s happening
I love this! Can't wait for more!
Hurray you're back!
welcome back, i’m so happy to see you guys again, i hope you guys have been doing well :D
Would it be fair to restate one of the controversies you outlined as whether to name all trance states as dissociative, or whether to only name patholoogical trance states as dissociation? Or is trance state too broad a term, or not used in scientific research?
Yes exactly, with the caveat that trance states (pathological or non-pathological) are only one type of dissociation.
There’s also an argument as to whether trance states should be described as dissociation at all 😅
ahh it's so wonderful to see you guys active again! you guys were very helpful in our early system days, and it's nice to see you guys tackling videos again :) i will say the way the information was presented was a bit overwhelming at times, but other than that the video was extremely well put together and informative. i'll definitely be reading the mentioned book in my own time as well. i hope you guys are doing well, and i can't wait to see what you guys have in store
I love the technicality in this video. Looking forward to more. Welcome back.
I can’t decide which I like more - this video or your shirt.
So happy you all are back in this time where misinformation is starting to go rampant again!
Yayyy glad to see y’all back around
This is not something i had thought about.
Welcome back :)
💙
So happy to see you back!