Layering of Emotion in DID/OSDD
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
- In this video from The CTAD Clinic, Dr Mike Lloyd (Clinic Director) discusses a way of trying to understand how emotions can suddenly intrude on a situation for people with complex dissociative conditions. Mike talks about how layers of dissociation within Dissociative Identity Disorder and Other Specified Dissociative Disorder can occur, and why simple situations can end up generating powerful emotional responses that seem to make little sense to the context (for exmaple, no trigger evident). This is a technique recommended within therapy settings.
#otherspecifieddissociativedisorder #osdd #dissociativeidentitydisorder #did #therapy
Positive change elicits deeper layer parts to front. They wake up to a storm and think we're at sea when we're really in a valley. It's a very frightening feeling to have co-consciousness with parts in the know and parts that just woke up YEARS later after a plethora of change. Confusing, shame inducing, isolating and distressing.
This... pinpoints I'd say the number one problem in terms of our regular, day-to-day functioning.
Thank you Dr. Lloyd for this, it was really helpful to have it laid out so clearly. (And thanks for all you do!)
You're most welcome!
I have suffered with this all my life...and I could not understand why I am reacting to a seemingly "not that bad" situation in such an over-the-top way. My family would just blow me off and eventually I was locked up in a mental institution...I have had full blown nuclear panic attacks that were started by "not so bad" situations...it wasn't until I got in a safe place, got in therapy and my alters started trusting my advocate. He knows my alters, he knows their position and job in my system...if I express to him I am feeling a certain way and I do not know why, but I am a mess mentally, he can usually identify within my system just who is feeling what and why...being able to assure and alter that they are safe, despite the perceived threat, then when I refront, those feelings start to dissipate, and I am better mentally, emotionally and all that...Your description of the thunderstorm is right on!!! Great video!
We have autism and D.I.D. we first observed this laying of emotion at around the age of 10. We labeled the phenomenon “primary, secondary, and tertiary emotions” many years later at age 34 we discover the body has autism and D.I.D. And are finally able to put our experience into Language that can be shared and understood. Thank you for sharing this!
Oh my gosh, this makes so much sense. Thank you for unpacking what was never really understood, and for making sense of it. We would go from zero to 100 in waves of emotions and not understand what was happening, or why. Thank you.
That makes so much sense! It never made much sense to me that what I learned in therapy was "traumatized people just can't handle the same amount of stress that other people can". Like, why? Why would it be different? Especially, when I see myself responding not very stressed to traumatic situations involving other people, while "healthy" individuals break down crying, unable to do anything. It makes way more sense that every day stressors just are stressfuller for me because deep down my body can't differentiate what the stressor is, so it defaults to what it has always known. "must be some kind of abuse again", instead of just the dishwasher breaking.
Wow, this is such an accurate description. I (host) figured it out myself. When the littles suddenly start screaming, often they picked up a sound of emotion from me or 'the outside world' but didn't know how to interpret it. Thank you so much Dr. Lloyd. It seems like you really listen to your patients.
Thank you!
A thunderstorm is such a good example/comparison! I always describe it to my therapist as me being a "conduit" for tears and somatic reactions. Rarely, I can feel like a "conduit" for child alters' joy and giddiness. I'm able to see in the inner world who is hurting (usually, at least), and realize that I'm experiencing the tears/bodily sensations *for* them. That's the point of alters; I just think it's interesting that I, as a fronting alter, take on only the *physical* stuff. As one of my core alters -- a "primary protector" as I've heard them be called -- it absolutely makes sense, and honestly, I'm grateful that my child parts (it's usually those alters that are hurting) trust me enough to give me what they can't bear to feel. Might sound odd, but OSDD/DID are pretty inherently odd. :p
Thanks for the upload; I'll keep in mind the thunderstorm metaphor 😊
Wow thank you for sharing your experience with this.
"OSDD/DID are pretty inherently odd"... truer words have never been spoken lol.
There's nothing in the universe that is more complex than a human being. Everyone...every individual has a spectrum of almost infinitely different experiences and perspectives and modes.... each with an inner and outer world(or more for people like us).
For me though, I don't relate his analog thunderstorm to somatic symptoms. I relate it to just how my system tends to operate and all the many ways functions can go wrong from being compartmentalized. I experience extreme dissociation daily and on a whole different level than most tho.
Lol...I wish it actually sounded like thunder cuz that's a comfort mechanism for me whereas the real internal rise and storm is truly disturbing.
Can completely relate. Never felt more seen than now. Thank you for sharing your experience
@Madison__ Oh gosh, I feel honored that my words could have that impact; it's always lovely when I feel seen, so I am grateful I could pass that loveliness along 🫂
I truly wish you the best 💛
It's even harder when you were born with a disorder that affects your emotional regulation... Thank you for this. Now i have a word for this thing. I was just saying that i can kinda sense emotion or emotions that are not mine.
you describe it exactly how we experience but could never put into word bc we don’t have each other’s perspective in the dif layers so this gives insight to that and explains So well, things make so mich more sense now , we cannot thank you enough
You are welcome, I’m really pleased my words can help yours!
Thank you very much for the clarification!
Wholeheartedly agree! I’ve sent many of your videos to my therapist(s)
hey, a few of my friends have DID, and your channel has been immensely helpful in helping us understand how systems function. thank you for your empathy and understanding
Great to hear!
This makes such a crazy amount of sense. It happens often at work to us that we get extremely upset and lose time. It makes so much sense knowing that little stressors can cause such a trickle down
Glad it might be of help to you!
emotional bleedthrough is a scary thing, and now i have a better understanding of whats going on. thank you.
Thank you, this was helpful to put an unspoken felt-sense of what happens to us into words.
Thank you so much for the video. We've had this issue off and on for a long while and always feel a lot of guilt around losing our day to repairs (we drove professionally) and our spouse would get confused why our whole day was ruined over what seemed like trivial to moderate stressors. It also helps clarify to us why we are usually ok if we are aware the environment is * going to be stressful * like when we do debates but struggle to handle things that go wrong at the grocery store.
Oh my goodness, this explains so much! Ive been diagnozed recently, before that they thought it was panic attacks, i was so sure i was going crazy since my symptoms didnt match at all🙈
That makes so much sense! We sometimes get huge freak out reactions in really minor situations, like a restaurant we wanted to go to being closed.
Especially this delayed terror reaction is super confusing like "I dealt with that so well in the moment, why am I crashing now?"
This is exactly what me, myself and I :D needed to hear right now. Currently going through it almost every day, it has never been as severe as it is now. It makes perfect sense and will help a lot in the future to apply your advice ^^
I'm so glad!
This is so eye-opening!
It explains why there are periods of time where my brain is just filled with screaming. It's as if a banshee has just moved in. It's that terror response from a much deeper layer/alter who has no context for what is happening and is still trapped in an old time period.
But it makes it really hard to deal with minor stress IRL when you've suddenly got a banshee shrieking in your ear! It just gets more stressful because you can't think. So the shrieking gets louder. And the stress increases ... 😑
This makes a lot of sense. I get what feel like random emotions popping through sometimes and I feel confused by them. I had a procedure done with a general anaesthetic yesterday and I felt ok about it but I had so much anxiety and fear coming through due to some trauma that relates to this. I knew it wasn't the same situation, I knew I wasn't in danger, but someone was very upset and afraid. It was hard trying to keep calm and relaxed. It makes sense that logical thinking couldn't get through those layers, that they couldn't understand we were safe and we're not being abused.
Thank you for describing this process. Very helpful! 💜
You are so welcome!
Story of my life. I wish I had watched this decades ago. I spent several trying to figure this out.
I wish I been doing this earlier, then!
Being gangstalked as a hard target has made me thankful for DID but I am beginning to feel my emotions in my body and this is becoming unmanageable. This is a blessing to watch today! Thank you, Jesus Christ and this amazing man doing good with his time here!
Very helpful video as always! Happily, our work on integration has been successful enough that these "emotional hot flashes" happen less often than they used to, but it's always good to keep in mind that not everyone in the system has the full context of whatever we might be experiencing at any given moment. Thanks for the video! 💙
You are very welcome!
Luv the references and lil picture animations, like these fun new inserts keeps our adhd interests lol
wow that last bit. I have days of insomnia which makes everything difficult; but notice that response is way out there- Thankyou for explaining the help for this at the end . I know these things don't deserve the waste of energy - but there it goes.
Thankyou for explaining so much of my life. I thought (and still think 😢) I was just broken. I'm still new to figuring out plurality personally but so much of it neatly ties my life together
This happened to me only years down the road after the stressor, and WITH context. Something I thought I had dealt with as mild stressor. Years later popped up in my mind like someone elses consciousness was downloaded into my brain. Like another part of myself dealt with it entirely differently and had been doing something in response and was now severely afraid and disappointed. It was so confusing and shocking because I thought I had dealt with that...now I had a second set...or layer of thoughts from years of time now in my brain along side my own way of handling it. Its why I went back to therapy. Still no diagnosis for dissociative disorders. Thanks for this video! So helpful!
Thank you. This was extremely valuable!! Sharing with my therapist.
Glad it was helpful!
I have heard this explained in many ways over the years but for the first time I actually understand what is explained now with your example. Especially considering it’s exactly what seems to happen to me! Thank you so much.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for another incredible video. Also, oooof. Big. I guess a big part of all of this is accepting? And we get stuck because “liar” is deep in there at a cellular level. So even being open to this - when it makes so much sense - we kinda need a certain level of acceptance about it all. Is that right? Because I am a part that’s job was solely to exist at surface level. I have read things, understand concepts, and can have a logic head at times. Yet I can’t seem to get ANY of that understanding filtered down and into a practical/experience way.
Though both I, and other parts really don’t want to “accept” things because of the fear of lying.
Ugh, bit of a stuck loop?
Do you have any thoughts? (Realising you can’t speak to specific peoples things…..)
And very open to hearing anyone else’s experiences if they feel ok to share….really love seeing some of the comments. Helps me feel less weird.
Thank you for another post that makes so much sense! I remember describing these layers to our old psychologist before we really knew much about DID/our system. We have certainly had many days derailed by this phenomena! I guess this may just be for 'bigger' stress, but could it also work as like a negative feedback loop? In that when the surface level has continuing/repeated stressful events (even if its minor) that passes down and then the Fight/Flight etc response is then being triggered back up, but it's met with more stress, which goes down and triggers the threat system again, which transfers back up - and repeat? Especially when there is no immediate fix to the surface stress. For example, plans may have changed but you have no idea of the resolution at that time and it is more open ended? (I appreciate there may be other things at play too). Sorry for all the questions 🙈 Thanks again for another great post 😊
Thank you . This makes so much sense.
Thank you so much for explaining this! This explains an experience we have frequently that we had no idea how to handle or why it was happening. We really appreciate your channel.
Thank you so much for helping us put into words what we are experiencing.
I was just asking about this. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Clear as always, makes a lot of sense as always.
Glad to hear it!
Thank you. That makes so much sense.
Glad it helps!
So because of the different weather patterns/climates of all the layers that are separated that become magnified with agitation and distress cause the thunderstorm/flooding, this could potentially look like a co morbid diagnosis of bipolar, bpd and cptsd.
Loving your helpful and informative content, always well explained with understanding and compassion.
Newbie subscriber here! Always look forward to your videos everytime you upload thank you 😊
Thank you so much for this video, this is incredibly helpful
Glad it was helpful!
Makes a lot of sense, haven't heard of this concept before. thank you!
Thank you 🙏🏻
You’re welcome!
This is absolutely great info, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
So perfect timing, just got panicked this week. I wasn't aware of this things. Thank you, appreciated greatly as always.
Very helpful thank you ❤
Thank you for explaining it so clearly and palpably - reactions make so much sense within this frame 🙏
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you. This makes so much sense. It's one of those struggles that stops one and crashes the rest of their day. I can't explain how troublesome.
Wow! This was exactly what I needed to hear today. I’m in the process of a year of DBT before the NHS will fund Specialist DID Therapy. I’m lucky enough to get a Teams group once a week and a 1-1 every week. My 1-1 therapist is employed by psychology services and keen to help me use your sessions.
Your videos are so easy to watch and so spot on. Thank you very much for your help ❤
This feels intuitively correct (my system members agree). Thank you for that; that was helpful.
Thank you for your video as always.
What's the difference between this idea of layers and an emotional flashback as in any trauma disorder?
I was wondering the same!
This helped a lot. Thank you.
Glad to hear it!
Thank you this was clear to understand and Avery practical way to help layers. Thank you for sharing.
I tried this this morning when I was late for work. Wow! It's amazing how well it works! I almost feel serene.
Oh my goodness. Thank you for explaining this. I have 100% been experiencing this and lost to explain why Episodes of angry terror comes over me with disgust for myself so crushing I believe I don’t deserve to be alive. I cry I beat the pillows yelling why am I so unable to do the right things, why am I hated. And most of the time the immediate situation just prior is out of proportion to my response. And right now looking back somehow kids and pets and being lied on or labeled or put in potentially site of legal involvement like the day I discovered I can’t deny DID any longer. It had to do with my landlord filling up my garbage bin w trash not allowed in garbage pick up rules. Someone in the past had taken garbage of mine and dumped it in a wealthy neighborhood house. The people called the cops who came to me with a fine and it took me time and money to get out from under the charges I was innocent of. Plus when I was little mom threatened to give me to the garbage men and tell me they would be bad men to me and they would get tired of me and out in the crusher part of the garbage truck. She would have me in tears saying please no I will be good.
At my grandmothers house everything was calm and good she said hummm today is Mammaws garbage day, I think I may have to give you to them today for what you did the other day you thought you got away with. I started crying amd sobbing Mammaw came to the room to see what’s up why crying. Mom said she’s so ignorant she thinks I’m giving her to the garbage men. Looking at me w a ? mark I said she told me she’s going to let them crush me in the dumpster. Grandma said let her try she’s not going to do that, come w me. But I e been Leary of garbage trucks instead of the roaches but sort of the same way. I will add the sage messages like you suggest. How did I ever make it out of there. Dr. She still is attacking me in very real ways from the next state. I deserve peace at some point. I know the only way that will happen is to let legal processes in on it. I need a lawyer that is experienced enough to recognize and not just think I’m a psycho. I need to know what else I don’t even know that required medical care . Plus get her restrained from her strategic harms that have financially and emotionally brought me to my knees and it’s out of the blue. Not being near her I don’t know when the next dart will stab.happened.
I’m so sorry you were treated in this way. It sounds like these were big triggers for you & your system. I truly hope you find people in your life who treasure you 💜
@@ArtyAntics what a precious gift your words are to me this second. I thank you we thank you. I take to heart and remember you as cherished .
You must have so much favor from the Almighty God of Israel. You are full of so many of His beautiful attributes. Those pieces of gold I know are hard forged in the refinement of painful fire. You earned that wisdom and knowledge the very difficult way. Jesus Christ’s Holy Spirit saw what you have suffered and will pay you back ten fold, He promises. Eternity for you will be GLORIOUS, and you will be first there. All we have to do is love unconditionally, forgive the way Jesus Christ does and endure. Three things I struggle with the most. 😝I like sharing the Good News and speaking with those that are more than just surface level people. We must be crushed by this world to fit through the narrow gate. Our refined, battle hard souls are the only things we carry into Eternity with us. Yours is brilliantly shining in this dark world to keep pointing others towards the New Kingdom and those inconceivable things we will do with, and for God while we enjoy every second in the world that is only filled with souls that have transformed into the likeness of Jesus and experience only perfect peace, joy and the mind of God forever. This test, battle, dumpster fire is almost over and it is the best time to be suffering in earth of all the generations before us. Our rewards are expectantly awaiting at the door at this very moment and He is every that is good, and true and perfect. And He deeply loves us in the midst of our sin and our wicked lives. I believe our sick mothers are unable to accept the love of God and they fight it in us. I am praying for yours and will you pray for mine and for me? I love you, family and can’t wait see you on those streets of gold…until we are in Paradise together with our Brothers and Sisters, God bless your determination and resilience!
@@ArtyAnticsyou are one of these souls I am talking about above 👆 please read that and thank you for sharing your heart so freely and for helping me today by you helping to comfort others. You both changed my heart this morning ❤
This is a thoughtful video. We have something extremely similar to this issue... where we get full-on intense disproportionate responses that otherwise are out of character. It is damaging our relationships with people we care about. Drawing on your analogy, the inner part deep in the system holding the intense emotions surface, but then when they are at the front, they (in the worst case for those exposed to them) get full access to our highly honed analysis / cognitive skills. This is terrible, because it means these highly charged emotional parts take over the levers of our "systems analysis / programming" skills, and start deep diving into the issue that was merely agitating the others towards the front. Whats worse, is because the analysis itself is not completely off (thats accurate, thats okay, thats close enough, yes thats the core of the issue, ...), in the moment we think we are being reasonable (and so the checks-and-balances are not kicking in)... but the delivery of that analysis is completely inappropriate and horrifically jarring. --- Normally this happens for us around systematic issues (society being dysfunctional), and issues that could impact other peoples safety. Our mother had the same issue (both dissociative behavior, and ultra-intense need to protect others... presumably due to the horrific child hood abuses she went through that she doesn't want others to be hurt, and having disproportionately intense reactions to perceived [actual or otherwise] issues ). --- We will try the reassurance technique you advocate.
AAAAAAAA THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE
Is going back to a younger state of mind a form of dissociation? How does that fit in on the spectrum of dissociative disorders?
This was really helpful thankyou, im going to add in some reassuring touch and words to try and anchor in my distress. I'm guessing this would also really help me from stopping burnout and stop my second psychotic break.
Thank you so much for this very helpful info! I do wonder if flashbacks can get triggered though this process.
0:56 Yeah we disagree. Allowing ourselves to feel good when something good happens has been hands down THE hardest thing about our 20 years of therapy and recovery and rehabilitation.
Hi Kevin,
Really sorry to hear that, you are right, this is a feature many people have to experience. I hope you find your answer to it!
@@thectadclinicThank you for making the follow up video. It was extremely validating and supportive of you to make that.
Positive emotions are much harder for us! We are much more comfortable with negative one because we are more use to them.
Thank you
Can this also be the case when you’re in big crowds, cities or other busy places? I always end up very dissociated when meeting a friend in the city, especially if I haven’t seen them in a long time or when it’s somebody new (and the experience of the connection is positive).
Absolutely, it can be quite stressful, even if safe and welcomed, but deeper down may not know this!
I want to say this is extremely relatable and makes complete sense to me. But I have been diagnosed with BPD and told fragmentation of identity is a symptom of my BPD.
I am graduating from a partial program and have been seemingly handling it OK, until today. Other stresses have brought up hidden layers of stress and my current emotional state does not seem to be matching the facts for the day. I'm trying what you said and adding reassurance to my lower layers. It is helping a bit. Feels comforting is the best way I can explain it. However there is this overwhelming feeling of fear bubbling. I will continue reassuring. Thank you for your videos.
I found the nice feelings more overwhelming because I’d never felt them before and didn’t know how to process them. The first time I felt peaceful someone started screaming it wasn’t safe. We had to form a ‘chain’ to reach the deeper parts to try and let them know safe is ok now, at least in our own home. This works for us the opposite way too where a certain date might trigger something in a deeper part and some will get agitated and then I’m on the top wondering why I feel naff.
Sorry to hear this, it can also be really tough with the positive feelings. I suppose it is something to know they exist deep down and have the potential for being truly meaningful in a good way.
So, something seemingly simple and normal in everyday life can result in system wide agitation and trigger deeper trauma-tied emotions? Explains why everday life feels so overwhelming so quickly.
I wish you were my psychiatrist 😢
I know sometimes telling those at the lower layers that things are okay don’t work because they associate things with events and they are stuck in the traumatic event. To reassure them that the body is okay, won’t be taken away, and will not vanish is so much more effective in feeling calm and grounded
Yes I understand this thank you. Also a question - what are your thoughts on integration i.e. what is your clinical experience on dissociative parts 'fusing', 'blending', etc? Will these storms ever stop?
I've struggled with this a lot. Most of the time I wouldn't even know what triggered it, it seemed like literally nothing happened and I suddenly get suicidally depressed for a few minutes or hours and completely lose the ability to do anything. Then it just stops completely and I go back to "can't imagine being depressed/suicidal", again for seemingly no reason. I thought I was probably bipolar for a long time but several professionals said it was not bipolar.
Does anyone else with DID want to make friends with others who have the disorder? I want to have some friends who get it but I don’t want to use social media 😢
I mean I'll be your friend, but I'm undiagnosed and my condition is a bit subtle, with only three or four major episodes I can pinpoint in my lifetime. I don't get reply notifications so I'll check back here after some time
Hi Dr. Lloyd thanks out for your insightful video. I have a question that I would be grateful if you would be able to answer?
I’m curious as to whether therefore this means that people with dissociative parts can therefore can trigger themselves through stressful thoughts? E.g. A person may actively think about something that they find distressing or maybe simply they are caught ruminating and this then generates the emotional responses as you describe which then leads to a flashback?
Thank you.
Can you make a video explaining subsystems?
I have OSDD and this described it so well. Do you guys take parients from Canada? Ive been living with this for 3 years and its so hard.
This can happen with negative thoughts, too.
I like this explanation but it raised one question; can a person be a 'middle layer'? Take your MOT scenario: I know I would panic about getting the MOT done. I'd get worked up way beyond what I know to be logical. I can recite all the logical reasons why it's fine, but I myself am still panicked and upset. Add to which, thinking about it raises feelings from the 'lower layers' - fear, panic, punishment, all pushing up. I'm also aware there is a better, logical version of me, for whom MOT's are a breeze. So, in this explanation, am I a 'middle layer'? Can a person be, for 80% of their life, a 'middle layer'?
I never knew this, i thought maybe its just ptsd and something has triggered me. 🤔
& the delay ?...sometimes the response is late
This could help reduce the frustration of my family who sometimes wrongly think that my amnesia is an indication of my lack of enjoyment or satisfaction of something? Otherwise I'd remember wouldn't I??
Sometimes for me it feels like a water droplet turning into a hurricane. Yesterday it was bad. I can always tell when it's going to be a bad day from the start. Doesn't matter what I do or try tho.. it just gets worse throughout the day and by the time I get home and safe, there's so much background screaming and negative chaos that Im basically screwed until I can fall unconscious.
One of these days, I swear..my physical body is going to turn inside out and explode. Hahaha
Would this all apply for complex trauma in general, when there aren't "alters" (but dissociated self states)?
In some form, I think yes, in that events can resonate through deeper layers of trauma.
@@thectadclinic I experience a lot of dissociation but I'm not diagnosed with OSDD or DID (just complex trauma). But what you are describing here is something I definitely relate to, and would be helpful for me to consider. Thanks for the information!