The strange thing about the beginning of this for me is that Michael Anton keeps referring to the Founders as having thought they discovered a new science of government, but it’s quite the opposite of how most of them thought. Jefferson believed rule by the people would be self-correcting, and various Founders thought they had done the best job in history of framing a government, but that was mainly because they were taking inspiration from older forms, trying to create checks and balances that emulated the wisdom and avoided the mistakes of prior experiments in self-government. Their decision to include a procedure for Amendments (and then to pass ten of those immediately) shows they had a much more realistic view of their achievement than to think they’d found the *right way* for all time.
No one noticed that Anton mixed up Cracker-Jacks with Bazooka Joe gum. The latter had the tiny comic strip on the inside of the wrappers while the former came with a toy in the box
American conservatism convinced me to trade it for North American High Toryism. That happened partly because I'm a staunch traditionalist Catholic monarchist. Don't worry. I won't bore you with theology. Instead, I say I believe "American conservative" is a paradox since American conservatives preserve Locke's classical liberalism.
To return to the Founders is to return to God's word, the truth that sets men free from our sinful hearts which are at war with a holy God. The founders new this and as most of them were committed Christian studied in the word of God. We have forgotten the God who has blessed us and we must repent and cry out to him to forgive our rebellious and sinful ways. We r so blessed because of God's guiding hand on our founders and now under his curse because of our wickedness, the worst is the murder of the unborn and the resulting perversions all around us. Where are the church leaders of today speaking out against this evil. Is it any wonder we r under God's curse and are seeing our nation being destroyed before. Our only hope is a new Reformation and a turning back to God and his laws. Morality is not enough we must be born again God giving us new hearts of repentance and a love for his Son Jesus Christ who died for the sins of the world.❤😂
He's clearly referring first and foremost to 19th-century German philosophy and the associated reforms in education, which informed the creation of the modern research university in 19th-century America. The Frankfurt School came much later, in the 1920s.
@@jameswilson8946 I don't know what his current religious views are, I'm just doing the math. But any credible online source - as well as the woke propaganda outlet Wikipedia - says he's of Italian and Lebanese background. Most Lebanese-Americans at the time Anton was born in the 1960s (particularly in his home state of California) were Maronite Catholics and virtually all Italians are (at least in a nominal sense). Marriages between Muslim Arabs and Italian Catholics were essentially non-existent and even today aren't common. So even if he didn't grow up in a practicing religious home, odds are he was raised at least culturally Catholic.
The power of a country is in it's manufacturing sectors. We have decided en mass to give away to China much of this capacity in the hope of cheap products. This has hollowed out regions of the US that were once industrial powerhouses. Think of how this has effected our tax base. Think about how this effected our morale. Walk in to a grocery store and find self check out stands where there was once an emplyee paying taxes. Bringing back manufacturing and the ability to have a living wage makes more sense than a religious war that Dr Deneen talks about. And who shall be this new American Pope? Trump? Vance? Sir, I don't care for your theology. You can keep it...for yourself.
Massively confused...Has Dr. Deneen changed his views from 2018? Initially, he seemed to argue that America's founding was Hobbesian and, as such, the societal decline we see today can be directly drawn to the intrinsic problems within that Hobbesian project (e.g., the time capsule release argument). Now, he's trying to argue that there was some conspiratorial endeavor to link American founding with mid-20th century liberal concerns. Someone help me, hahaha.
Yeah, as I continue to listen, he has definitely changed his thesis. What was once labelled "first stage liberalism" or "classical liberalism" he now unqualifiedly classifies the founding as "conservative." Very disappointing.
The founders existed before capitalism and couldn’t comprehend the centralization of private power. No we can’t go back to them. Besides they were liberals and liberalism is something to overcome
Bizarre considering the Anglo 13 colonies of north America was distinctly anti catholic and it was virtually outlawed and banished to the french frontier
When he said "there may be no way out" at 31:20, that struck me as someone speaking who doesn't have a relationship with Christ. He says it while quoting Leo Strauss, "availability of a solution is not guaranteed, who is also not Christian, right? Is he Jewish?
I see you don't understand sarcasm. Neither do you know the difference between THEY'RE, THERE. To make it clear for you, I was referring to the Indigenous people...the land after all belongs to them and not the whities!
Patrick Deneen's opening statement is at once incredibly eloquent and tightly argued.
The strange thing about the beginning of this for me is that Michael Anton keeps referring to the Founders as having thought they discovered a new science of government, but it’s quite the opposite of how most of them thought. Jefferson believed rule by the people would be self-correcting, and various Founders thought they had done the best job in history of framing a government, but that was mainly because they were taking inspiration from older forms, trying to create checks and balances that emulated the wisdom and avoided the mistakes of prior experiments in self-government. Their decision to include a procedure for Amendments (and then to pass ten of those immediately) shows they had a much more realistic view of their achievement than to think they’d found the *right way* for all time.
Patrick Deneen is brilliant.
A brilliant and important discussion. Great minds. Thank you, ISI.
Starts at 3:56
No one noticed that Anton mixed up Cracker-Jacks with Bazooka Joe gum. The latter had the tiny comic strip on the inside of the wrappers while the former came with a toy in the box
Sad!
Great discussion.
I didn't really feel like Anton was engaged in this discussion, he seemed somewhat unserious.
American conservatism convinced me to trade it for North American High Toryism. That happened partly because I'm a staunch traditionalist Catholic monarchist. Don't worry. I won't bore you with theology. Instead, I say I believe "American conservative" is a paradox since American conservatives preserve Locke's classical liberalism.
Thank god no one will pay attention to you.
The Founders were wrong to rebel against their king, and any pretty words they wrote were to hide this
The founder were RIGHT in rebelling against the tyrant king.
The Parliament was to blame for infringements, not the King.
Champions!
To return to the Founders is to return to God's word, the truth that sets men free from our sinful hearts which are at war with a holy God. The founders new this and as most of them were committed Christian studied in the word of God. We have forgotten the God who has blessed us and we must repent and cry out to him to forgive our rebellious and sinful ways. We r so blessed because of God's guiding hand on our founders and now under his curse because of our wickedness, the worst is the murder of the unborn and the resulting perversions all around us. Where are the church leaders of today speaking out against this evil. Is it any wonder we r under God's curse and are seeing our nation being destroyed before. Our only hope is a new Reformation and a turning back to God and his laws. Morality is not enough we must be born again God giving us new hearts of repentance and a love for his Son Jesus Christ who died for the sins of the world.❤😂
Anton is talking of Frankfurt school as "German import".
He's clearly referring first and foremost to 19th-century German philosophy and the associated reforms in education, which informed the creation of the modern research university in 19th-century America. The Frankfurt School came much later, in the 1920s.
52:47
Is Anton Catholic?
Yes.
@@celtaclassroom7082 wow I didn’t realize that. I can’t find anything of him mentioning it.
@@jameswilson8946 I don't know what his current religious views are, I'm just doing the math. But any credible online source - as well as the woke propaganda outlet Wikipedia - says he's of Italian and Lebanese background. Most Lebanese-Americans at the time Anton was born in the 1960s (particularly in his home state of California) were Maronite Catholics and virtually all Italians are (at least in a nominal sense). Marriages between Muslim Arabs and Italian Catholics were essentially non-existent and even today aren't common. So even if he didn't grow up in a practicing religious home, odds are he was raised at least culturally Catholic.
The power of a country is in it's manufacturing sectors. We have decided en mass to give away to China much of this capacity in the hope of cheap products. This has hollowed out regions of the US that were once industrial powerhouses. Think of how this has effected our tax base. Think about how this effected our morale. Walk in to a grocery store and find self check out stands where there was once an emplyee paying taxes. Bringing back manufacturing and the ability to have a living wage makes more sense than a religious war that Dr Deneen talks about. And who shall be this new American Pope? Trump? Vance? Sir, I don't care for your theology. You can keep it...for yourself.
Massively confused...Has Dr. Deneen changed his views from 2018? Initially, he seemed to argue that America's founding was Hobbesian and, as such, the societal decline we see today can be directly drawn to the intrinsic problems within that Hobbesian project (e.g., the time capsule release argument). Now, he's trying to argue that there was some conspiratorial endeavor to link American founding with mid-20th century liberal concerns. Someone help me, hahaha.
Yeah, as I continue to listen, he has definitely changed his thesis. What was once labelled "first stage liberalism" or "classical liberalism" he now unqualifiedly classifies the founding as "conservative." Very disappointing.
The founders existed before capitalism and couldn’t comprehend the centralization of private power. No we can’t go back to them. Besides they were liberals and liberalism is something to overcome
Anton speaking about the Religious Wars - you can't blame the Catholic Church for attacks upon it. Or for the Swedes ransackingthe HRE.
Gutav Adolphus--that savage!
Bizarre considering the Anglo 13 colonies of north America was distinctly anti catholic and it was virtually outlawed and banished to the french frontier
We don't have the demographics for it anymore.
Move on from that dream.
I fear you are right but what should we move on to?
NO!
Is Mr. Anton Jewish?
When he said "there may be no way out" at 31:20, that struck me as someone speaking who doesn't have a relationship with Christ.
He says it while quoting Leo Strauss, "availability of a solution is not guaranteed, who is also not Christian, right? Is he Jewish?
Anton is not Jewish. Wikipedia reports him as having Italian and Lebanese descent.
Quoting Leo Strauss is not evidence of someone being Jewish.
@@douglasmacarthur702 He worked for Citi and Blackrock. That's worse than being a semite.
He is Catholic. He says so in an older interview about San Francisco's history.
An.inemmoral.theory.and.ideolgy..
Democracy.the.idean.the.theory..the.idealogy..all.wrong.
Patrick Deneen, religious socialist. I can only hope his quest for theocracy never pans out.
You engaged absolutely no detail or aspect of his rational arguments.
Hahahahaah, I found the prot heretic!
Disgusting.
Who are those...the Native Americans?
Huh? Whachu talking about Willis
The Indians played no part in founding the United States.
It wasn't fake aboriginal like African Americans claim There are not
I see you don't understand sarcasm. Neither do you know the difference between THEY'RE, THERE. To make it clear for you, I was referring to the Indigenous people...the land after all belongs to them and not the whities!