As a long-time Pimax user (5k+ from Kickstarter, 5K Super now), I have to say most of this is pretty close to what I was expecting lol. I have absolutely no hope or expectations for the Portal, but the Crystal or 12k have decent potential to become my next headset. I've invested enough time, money, and effort into fixing my headsets and making them work for me that I don't think I would trade them for any other headset currently. Whether this is because my fixes have made it into a genuinely good headset or it's just sunk-cost fallacy at this point, I can't be too sure. That being said, I am excited to be following these new headsets, not because I expect any of them to be great out of the box, but because I think they have the potential to be made into something great with the right suite of fixes. I expect the Crystal is going to be months away from being meaningfully "launched", and perhaps by then the tracking will be good enough to strap a Tundra to it for continuous calibration. The SteamVR plate would be optimal but I'm just going to go ahead and assume that is going to be broken on launch until proven otherwise. And the exchangeable lenses definitely does feel like a gimmick, but I figure once you spend some time getting them perfectly clean and attached correctly, it'll be fine. Extra weight and complexity for no real gain to me sure, but probably not a deal-breaker. As for the eye-tracking film, I've cleaned the lenses of the current Pimax eye tracking module (which is basically e-waste until you fix it) several times but so far have not seen any degradation in image quality, but I do see that as a valid concern. I've taken care to be very gentle when doing so in order to avoid whatever is making them function as an IR mirror. Either way, I'm not surprised by the state of the headset, I was expecting a broken product. But I'm hopeful that as long as the hardware is good enough, it might still be worth it to buy and fix up. From the sounds of it, that sounds like my hopes might be founded.
Yeah. Unless Varjo or Valve or _somebody_ starts talking about a human-FoV headset, my next purchase will be a 12K. Will not ever buy another scuba mask no matter what features it has, or how annoying and fiddly my current 8K X is. Pimax's downsides are real, but they're the only game in town.
Great post but my god, this all seems hassle. I just want it to work out the box not to need to go back to school to maintain a headset I've paid $1600 for. Personally I'll be waiting to see what the new Quest 3 or Quest Pro 2 is like and hopefully that will give a nice bump in resolution and visuals with an updated software stack to support the mixed reality experiences.
Pixmax is for the tinkerer audience, which has it's place. I can kinda respect even what they're doing... since unlike a fresh new startup, we know exactly what we're dealing with and that some fixing will be required. It's deceptive to newbies, I guess, but to the tinkerer it's OK.
I love comments like this, it's as good as a second video! Very interesting to hear some thoughts from an experienced Pimax user. I've been avoiding Pimax until now, but for what I'm interested in, the Crystal is definitely the most interesting headset atm. The lenses are gimmicky for sure, but it could also have some advantages like easily swapping them out if scratched or not having to send the entire headset to China if your lenses are off in some way. The cleaning and such shouldn't be harder or more sensitive than cleaning a sensor on a camera, which might not be for the average consumer but shouldn't be an issue at all for an enthusiast. My greatest concern after watching this, is the tracking... I guess we'll have to wait and see what Pimax or the community comes up with.
since you owned both 5k+ and super could you tell me how is SDE when you compare those 2 headsets? I heard some opinions that Super has better clarity and less SDE than 5K+ and some even claim it's better or at least as good as Index clarity wise but I've yet to actually hear that from someone who owned both. I would be really glad if you could answer as I might be buying 5K Super soon.
lol, 10:41 I'm one of the dudes in the background there, the main guy operating the Crystal was actually a volunteer, NOT an actual Pimax employee it seems~ The Chinese Guy that was there was actual Engineering and he Came Over after you left and adjusted the lenses properly. Like i mentioned in another comment, It turns out the lenses they had there (the wide FOV lenses only, and the others were "stuck in customs") had a modification applied, where they added spacers to the lens magnetic mounts to have the lenses properly align and sit mounted properly since there was an issue with that prototype/demo mode we were using. This allowed the lens to more easily move around and misalign, just a side effect of demoing a prototype...
Everything Pimax was showing at the roadshow was definitely taken with a lot of salt for me personally, I would want it to work out but I can also see the past as clear as day and we need to see things happen properly to believe it... Until then I'll keep my distance Thank you so much for diving so much deeper than I could!
Great video Brad, best review of the Crystal so far. I spent a lot of time at the Pimax booth at two roadshows checking out the Crystal. I think it's an amazing enthusiast headset but the price is steep and as you say, I wouldn't want to buy it early because half the features aren't there yet and the FW is in a super early state. I'll take a look at this headset in a year and if there's still no competition I might consider getting it. I love that you downplayed local dimming and mentioned the colors. The colors on this thing are absolutely fantastic and this pops out in every game and every scene. The local dimming is also fantastic but it's more important in space sims and horror/dark games and a little less important in other games. It should be mentioned that this headset will be an absolute holy grail for space simmers. I saw ED on it and I was blown away. You WILL want this if you play ED a lot, trust me, it looks insane. Horror games maybe as well but that would require Pimax to nail the audio which they probably won't (it SUCKS currently, they need to do proper EQ). I did actually get to check out tracking on the Portal and it kinda worked but there was a huge offset applied so it's currently unusable. BTW you didn't mention Wifi6 and WiGig support on the Crystal, it's a nice feature but no one got a chance to see it in action yet. If tracking is worse than G2 then it will only be a (great) headset for simmers or people who have lighthouses and will buy the extra LH faceplate. At which point it's over 2000EUR and well...The G2 looks like such good value in comparison (it is being discontinued it seems). Oh and the Aero is dead, there is no reason to get the Aero now when you can get the Crystal, no advantage over it whatsoever.
@@jamiesalmonsculpture8599 How is Aero better in that regard though. As far as I know they don't even have reprojection. Or sound. What it does have is crazy distortion, much higher than what current Crystal prototypes have so..
@@3lbios distortion was fixed awhile ago. It's software is built from the ground up for training real pilots, so it's safe to say it's very solid indeed. Reprojection coming s9on, and sounds like it will be the best so far
@@jamiesalmonsculpture8599 Well, Crystal coming soon as well :P And distortions haven't been fixed apparently because I saw them when reviewing a demo unit recently at Varjo booth at a VR conference.
As a sim racer, I'm super keen for the Crystal and thankful they didn't go for base station tracking. I'd have got the Aero a year ago if only if it had inside out tracking (and onboard audio). Not fussed at all about the controllers. In fact I wish they'd offer a version without controllers for cheaper.
@@jcudejko Not OP, but base stations are not cheap - so it's significant additional cost for very little benefit for a seated experience where you don't use the VR controllers.
I’m in the same exact boat, would have snapped up the Aero (especially during Black Friday) if it didn’t require basestations and an external audio situation.
Based on what you're saying, it sounds like the Crystal is already the perfect PCVR headset with the two minor "problems" that you need to use it with the lighthouse addon, and that you shouldn't swap out the lenses. But those seem like really minor issues, anyone who does PCVR will of course use lighthouse, and most people will also never swap out the lense. So why does it overall sound like you are not super excited even though these small non-issues are the only problems you saw?
I think the most important part of a HMD is tracking. Even over visuals. And right now, it doesn't have any that works. So I cannot get excited about it until they show it off. They don't have the lighthouse attachment to try yet.
@@SadlyItsBradley Sorry for the intrusion. Here I disagree. Quest2 has the best tracking but not so satisfying visuals; I used it for two weeks, now it's collecting dust. G2 has great visuals but average limited tracking; I'm still enjoying G2 after more than 1 year, even on ordinary not-sim games like Alyx, Lone Echo Eye of the Temple, Kayak VR, etc.. According to science of perception, sight is the most important sense to fool in order to induce the VR illusion. Sight is so powerful that influences other senses; e.g. you can perceive smells (bradleysmells :) ) or sounds depending on visual stimuli. Immersion and presence are first of all driven by visual cues. I'm always disappointed by experiences with poor visuals. That's not only me. Several tests conducted on several human subjects show that sight and visual cues are the core of today VR. Obviously also tracking and 3D audio are important. You have the best VR when visuals, audio and tracking/interaction are all good and couple each other. If considered separately, I would say that visuals alone make the 48% of the VR experience, tracking/interaction the 27%, audio the 25%. Not by chance tracking is not always part of the sci-fi VR imagery, see The Matrix or Existenz, where you lie inert while diving in VR through BCI; VR is a mental status, not necessarily involving the body, just the brain. Sci-fi apart, obviously, I agree that tracking/interaction is important today; it's something coming from Wii and Kinect experiences and evolving towards computer vision. I can see that with Quest2 tracking I have smoother physical experience while playing Eleven TT in comparison to G2. But when I play games like Alyx or Lone Echo etc., there is no comparison, G2 is mind blowing. And I cannot accept the trade with Index because of the old visuals and bulky/expensive lighthouse. The fact is, tracking/interaction is the weakest part of today VR systems, the hardest and most expensive piece of tech; it's hard to develop in graphic engines virtual gestures and movements that have good correspondence with real tracked gestures and movements. Most of time tracking/interaction feels awkward even on the best HMDs and games/apps. In conclusion I disagree on this point. Just my informed point of view on the tech. Keep going the good job Brad! :)
@@videogamesart8057 Fully agree, I own a G2 and the Index and I use the G2 for most games and experiences. I'd be fine with a Crystal and lighthouse tracking but who knows when they'll start shipping the faceplate and what the total cost will be (probably huge).
@@3lbiosBrad is right about Pimax, they always rush the products, their HMDs are never well designed despite the huge price, they sell unbalanced prototypes requesting a lot of tweaking and compromises and coming with a lot of excesses and defects. They don't learn from past mistakes and from suggestions by experienced enthusiasts. They never focus on one single optimized device,
@@videogamesart8057 Yeah but for me the bar is already low in that regard. I've spent countless hours debugging various issues on the G2. I hear Pimax stuff also has tons of issues in released products and requires a lot of tinkering. I still love my G2. I believe a lot of the usual Pimax crappiness will go away because the FoV here is actually sane and games won't break or have glitches because of it. I expect most of the early issues on the Crystal will be in the features that are not working yet or they haven't been able to show (tracking, auto-IPD, eye-tracking, wifi/wigig, etc). If you only play sims, chances are you'll be happy with the Crystal even on day one. Likely happier than the people who got the G2 on day one ;)
Very interesting review/update many thanks Brad, i've recently moved from the G2/3090 combo to the AERO/4090 setup and i think its the new defacto standard for quality VR.
This is still very much a personal thing. I sent my Aero back for several reasons, one being the FOV was like looking through binoculars. To my shock I FAR preferred my 8KX over it in every game except for MSFS2020. The 8KX has at least 2X the immersion for me. In fast-paced games and anything involving lots of movement the 8KX periphery lets me see what's coming or let's me feel the speed. The Aero felt like I had blinders on and I got decimated in comparison. That level of clarity makes zero difference in many games. It all depends on what you're playing. For people who have large FOV and love it, it's pretty impossible to give that up. I've seen many people who shared my experience. Don't get me wrong, the 8KX is far from perfect. The 4090 does rock my 8KX for sure. I can finally get 90 fps in most games with everything cranked up.
In a world where Apple and Samsung are removing headphone Jack's and now even chargers Pimax is including two types of lenses to give us even more control over our preferences. I kind of like it myself but honestly if they just perfected 8k or 12k 220 degrees with no God rays they win big like really really big. Imagine if they even had 30% of meta's budget all focused on 12k 220 degrees (not 200)
you fucker, pimax does not include headphone jack either anymore in portal. pimax wouldn't even get 1% of meta accomplishment with 500% meta budget. this is cash grab from desperate people like you who probably play one game only all the time, some sort of simulators
@Pixel Merry Christmas. You should try Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, RDR2 and even Battlefield/Cod with Vorpx. So much money in just simply bringing out fov corrected games IMO since studios will not invest in full VR hand eye etc tracking true VR ports such as Skyrim VR. Might as well open up the world to VR with their favorite games. I guarantee that is going to be the angle to get the average consumer in totally IMO of course. What do I know of course hehe. I'm totally enjoying the experience myself.
@@brothatwasepic I've used vorpx like 8 or 9 years ago. This isn't vr. It's 3d tv gaming. Gta vr mod changed nothing. This isn't good consumers, this is for desperate gamers. Cool to see graphics on vr, but the gameplay interactivity simply isn't there
because no one else but maybe Varjo is doing high end VR like this. I have tried most every headset and I wouldn't trade my 8k X for any other current product. this isn't for everyone. I have own 7 headsets of which 3 are PIMAX
Pimax is innovating and actually trying to give customers their dream VR headset. While mainstream companies are working on ways to milk customers with small iterative changes on each VR release. That’s why pimax will always be ahead of the game. It’s sort of like those darn AAA games that milk your money with micro transactions.
I love my 8kx and my 5k+ before that. I need the FOV, it's enraging that other companies are still using antiquated decade-old FOV sizes - shame on them. Adding eye tracking and all this other nonsense is silly when headsets don't even have a proper FOV yet. And obviously the toy mobile SOCs are to weak for it. Only Lighthouse tracking is up to my quality standards. But until somebody else makes a proper wide FOV headset, Pimax has been really the only PC VR headsets I really love to use. Nobody else is really doing it. When the 12k is eventually released, someday and the Lighthouse faceplate is available, I will take a look at it, until then I am just ignoring all the noise about other Pimax products including the Crystal (due to lower FOV). I expect the 12k will happen eventually, Pimax moves slow but they do eventually deliver. So maybe 18 months or 24 months from now. I have gathered over the years that working with Valve on tracking has been problematic not just for Pimax but for others as well, which is why why more headsets don't use Lighthouse as Valve insists on making the Base Stations themselves and Valve has been notoriously annoying when it comes to joysticks since "someone" at Valve seems to hate them. Lighthouse never became the universal tracking system it was initially pitched as, as Valve keeps such a tight hold over it. So it is unsurprising companies are forced to turn to WMR (dead end now) or Qualcomm tracking, remember how Valve couldn't keep the Index itself in stock and was way backordered. Hard to sell a headset with Lighthouse when you can't sell Base Stations, companies are basically forced to use other tracking. Removable lenses immediately struck me as a terrible idea, for the reasons you concluded as well. More things to go wrong. I just hope the 12k is a nice solid wide FOV Lighthouse headset without unnecessary complicated parts or too many points of failure on things like removable lenses. But my 8kx is so good, I will be happy chilling with it for a couple more years and would immediately replace it if something happened to it.
I really appreciate this writeup. I understand the frustrations a ton with FoV. I do agree that FoV is important in a LOT of VR scenarios. The fact that Pimax is teetering out of FoV focus seemed odd to me as an outsider, so seeing your writeup as a longtime Pimax user is very useful
if you want you can keep the 35 ppd lens and you dont need to worry about the rest .but its free and its coming with it i would see it as maybe someone wants the crystal but more business oriented with the 42 ppd. not everyone needs the high fov and plays sims. they dont need to switch the lenses so often they would just keep the one set away. and if someone wants to make lenses and it's for people who needs glasses it can happen too. still very good review id be using this for 3d movies and sims and sitting down games so happy that its good for that. it still does more than varjo aero at release, if tobii eye tracking comes at the same time.
For gaming I use Q2 for standalone and wireless PCVR. But as a simmer, I'm still hopeful for the Crystal. For simming; visuals, a wider fov and direct DVI are all important to me. And, because of my cockpit layout, it's really useful to have an inside out tracking option. So that only really leaves the G2 (which I use) or Crystal. As you suggested though, and based on what we've seen from Pimax before, the real release date (for a finished product) is about a year after their 'launch' event. As a simmer, I really like what Pimax tries to do and am glad they exist. But remain cautious of all the promises and will wait a little longer yet...
I really believe in the Crystal, it has the potential to be a great headset. The price is right and the promised features, like the Wigig module for wireless lossless native pcvr and the hot-swappable batteries are amazing things that I just really hope will work as promised. It's said to hear about the tracking, but it explains why the controllers weren't even around on last week's roadshow. Imagine if you could use quest pro controllers with this guy, that would make the perfect vr setup imo.
Yea, it seems like the only real complaint about the crystal is the lack of lighthouse tracking (which they are going to be bringing with the face plates). Fair enough.... seems like a pretty small issue though.
I have a high budget (around 2000) that I would love to spend on an high end VR headset, but so far the only interesting one is the Crystal. I'm a little sad the Crystal might have crap tracking out the box, but if that is fixed then it seems to be the only thing viable for at the moment. I'm definitely not buying any Meta products due to the whole "Locked unless you use an account" (even though that was fixed) but the other headsets just don't seem to be any better then the Index, and the Index is just too old (and not stand alone) for me to buy now. Hopefully the Crystal will be the thing I'm looking for cause I want my first headset by January. (I've waited 2 bloody years for a Deckard, can't wait any more!!)
Most things are locked down unless you use an account. Meta requires "Meta account" to use it for anything. Pico similarly requires "Pico account" to get past start up. Index requires "Steam account" and I'd be extremely surprised if Crystal didn't require "Pimax account" (or similar). Actually... WMR might not need MS account (or any account) to work, but don't hold me to it!
@@Niilomaan Oh I fully understand having an account. But the problem with Meta is that you needed to have a Facebook account. Facebook only lets you use a "real" name. So if my name was "Player" I can't actually make an account because Facebook doesn't think "Player" is a "real" name. But if I can create an account by just giving an fake name/username (such as "Villamor") then I'm fine with it.
For the record the Samsung Gear VR was a massive sucess despite its problems, millions of units sold, supported by potentially tens of millions of phones.
I still have the first Gear VR released, for the Galaxy Note 4. It was MIND BLOWING at the time. Pretty awful compared to the best of today, but I had so much fun taking that around and sharing the future with people (who were also mind-blown)!
8:22 - A bigger issue is that without a detection method for swapping lenses this could end up causing users to have to switch between lens settings in software manually.
There are so many people out there that just want a wireless index with upgraded visuals and good tracking. I really wish they would just focus on that instead of transformer headsets or other stuff. I hope that we finally get a worthy upgrade in 2023. I'm just tired of being disappointed in every new headset release. If the G2 drops in price again here in Canada on boxing day I think I'm getting one for my sim needs while I wait for Deckard or Quest 3 or Pro 2. The HTC headset could be interesting if has display port and good tracking but I'm thinking the fov will probably disappoint if it's the same as the flow.
@@ATP-Flo I wouldn't care much cause I would use it for Sim racing only. I have given up on getting everything in one headset and will be getting 2 headsets in the upcoming year..
@@simracingjunky9679 i tried it with MSFS 2020 for a week, can’t stand with that tiny sweet-spot, the overall experience is worse than Quest 2 with link(Yes DP mode can’t save that sweet spot mess).it’s on sale for a reason ,maybe try look at Varjo Aero if you only care about sims.
Thx Bradley, very informative as always. I went to Pimax's last roadshow for the 8kx and ended up buying it. Other than a 2 month delivery delay and some initial pitool problems I am still very happy with the product. That being said, I use it primarily for siming, so FoV + Resolution are absolute King for me. It is good to hear you speaking well of the displays and visuals but when I heard you speak about the lense system it really does sound like work in progress. At this point I am going to wait and see until the end of next year for an upgrade. To be fair, I don't think for a simer anything better is going to get released next year. I will not hold my breath for Valve, certainly not for Meta. But the biggest problem right now are quality games. Other than halflife alyx there has not been a single tripple A VR game release- ever. I cannot justify another hardware upgrade until I see new software that I will want to run on it.
@@SadlyItsBradley personally I used an 8kx for sim racing and the tracking was jittery and would drift with Lighthouse 2.0 base stations even after recalibrating with the Steam SDK. It was unusable and after putting my Index back on, I was immediately a second a lap faster and everything was just stable and clear and smooth. The PiMax was just not useable and a competitive disadvantage and I had to sell it. The built in tracking was like 4DOF and not useable. The fact that the tracking sounds iffy already makes me 100% shelf this. Waiting on Deckerd. The additional FOV is only half useful because they’re just stretching the image toward the edges - that might seem immersive, but for racing where you utilize your peripheral vision, stretching an image with lenses doesn’t do you any good. You need a screen that actually displays more pixels out toward the size.
Asgard's Wrath says you are full of f**king shit, and Lone Echo I & II are there to further stomp on that shit pile. There's been numerous full-fat AAA VR releases. People who complain that Half-Life: Alyx is the only major VR game worth playing are pathetically lazy idiots. I wouldn't expect many future major PCVR titles that aren't standalone ports though. PCVR and tethered VR in general is a complete technological dead-end market outside the simmer community with absolutely ZERO future. The Quest 3's XR2 Gen 2 is nearly as fast as a PS4 Pro and w/ a faster CPU to boot for shit's sake. Developer restrictions on game scope & scale on standalone are rapidly nearing complete irrelevance.
I definitely agree with all of your points here. Of course you know far more, having gotten to try it, but you are saying what needs to be said. The more I hear about the Pimax Crystal the more I become convinced that they should have made this a PCVR headset with only the lenses that provide the same or slightly larger FOV as the Index. Pimax should have also done what HP did years ago and worked with Valve to also use the best audio solution in the industry on all of their headsets. They could have sold the Crystal for $1000 or even less if they didn't have their own tracking or controllers or interchangeable lenses, and just used the Lighthouse SteamVR tracking on the headset. I would have loved to purchase that and paired it with my Lighthouse 2.0 base stations and Index controllers I already have. Much higher resolution and better lenses combined with Tobii eye tracking and driver level dynamic foveated rendering with Valve Index audio and SteamVR tracking is pretty much the perfect upgrade for the Index that I can think of - that's what the Crystal should have been.
Pimax releasing the Crystal and the 12K kind of makes sense, but then to divert their resources again into a gimmicky product? The portal doesn't really need to exist, I would much rather then put for energy into the crystal and 12k
Elite Dangerous was one reason I got in to VR so heavily. I started with an OG Vive. Tried a friend's Rift. Then I upgraded to an Index. I'm not playing enough ED to warrant another upgrade, but I can imagine how good it must have looked. My next HMD has to be an upgrade in almost all facets from my Index.
Yea don’t let this on persons opinion ruin it for u. MrTV has a nice review on this headset and for the most part a majority of folks who went to test the headset were pleased with the “pre-production” version. The final version will be spectacular.
I’m in the same situation. hard to beat the Index due to the amazing FOV and excellent audio (the G2s audio is inferior despite looking similar). Hoping Index2 will be announced soon
The plan to add Lighthouse tracking later, told me that they didn't have much faith in the tracking they are using out of the box. Also, the fact that the max IPD is only 71, and the small FOV in such a wide headset is very disappointing.
Probably! The thing is, I think larger manufacturers want smaller HMDs with pancake lenses, so they don't wanna touch displays with anything bigger than 2.5" diagonal. These ones hit 3.2" per eye
These dudes had to the nerve to try and "Compare" PC VR headsets that weren't even running on the same PC Hardware, they had the Crystal running on a Beefy custom PC with a 3090Ti while the Varjo Aero was running on a cheaper 'open box' laptop with a laptop 3080 they bought off a shelf the day before, lol. They even had the settings for the Varjo turned way down/not calibrated properly (I took pictures of that for proof too, ha), Aside from the sketch Sales-man shit, The Portal and Crystal has ALOT of potential! but just not there yet... the hardware is complete... but AIO didn't even work yet ("waiting on firmware update") the Headset Audio didn't work yet ("waiting on firmware update...") PIMAX controllers 'worked' but were absolute garbage compared to anything else (like early WMR bad, pretty bad latency, yet also "waiting on Firmware updates to reduce latency..." Note they were prototypes and there is a chance this could have also been due to the batteries dieing/being less than 25% but still...) the Demo headset they had only had one set of lenses (the wide lenses) to demo ("the other set of lenses is stuck in customs cause it came from china...") and the lenses they had didn't fit right/had a defect (they had to rig some spacers in order to get things to line up for clarity, yet this caused the lenses to be able to shift more easily while demoing causing clarity issues) But when the Chinese engineer dude would come over and align everything it looked GREAT~! the QLED Panels were high resolution and the contrast and color was AMAZING, as a PCVR headset, the visual were GREAT (when lenses aligned and you got a good sweet spot..., IPD adjustment worked fine, (no where near as sophisticated as the auto-IPD the Varjo they dared to compare to had, but... 'it worked' and worked 'good enough' imo) my personal biggest issue was the head strap, The elastic vertical/over head strap is garbage and kept me from maintaining that sweet spot once I found it, they are still using the old-school Face-Hugger style of headset strap and they really need to change that imo, people were coming out of the demo with the red-ring on their face, 😂 The biggest downfall I've seen in most of these style of headsets is they release them 1 YEAR TOO EARLY, if they held the release of the Crystal exactly one year, Ironed out all the bugs, Made all the dozens of "Multiple Firmware Updates" BEFORE RELEASEING THE HEADSET then they would have a really decent product to demo and ship. If I got to demo what the Crystal (may) become a year from now (after all the firmware update, and everything worked flawlessly) then wow would PIMAX potentially have a GREAT product on their hands... but for now it's just still Not Ready 😮💨 It feels like they may just be trying to rush it out before they get more competition like the PSVR2... which isn't standalone or PCVR so i don't get it... but ok... The Crystal will get a bad reputation at launch just because they are shipping the product WAY TOO EARLY while there's still hardware and software bugs that (really) need to be worked out. and for ~$1600 I want a complete, comfortable, bug free, open-the box and play headset.... if they come out with a Deluxe headstrap of somekind, then maybe a year or two from now the Crystal will be on my radar (vs potentially *better* headsets like a future new oculus/meta, HTC/vive, or Valve Dekard, etc. headset) but the price is way too much for an unfinished product right now.
I also noticed at the roadshow that the Varjo Aero they were showing had crazy distortion (I think barrel distortion) which probably means they didn't have the software corrections enabled. Which is funny because they didn't have to do it, the Crystal still blows the Aero out of the water even when configured properly (I got to compare it properly at the second roadshow).
On point. My fear is that Pimax pushing a whole new line of products will result in the Crystal and 12k not getting adequate software/firmeware updates to become refined great headsets. :(
Sadness... Update: Not as bad as I thought. Maybe? The tracking being awful is disappointing... I really don't mind the lens system much, though. As much as you're going on about higher FOV I'd sooner have higher PPD. Being able to appeal to both markets just helps. If you're perfectly happy with one set of lenses then you never even have to swap anyways. Though I find it curious that when talking about a layer on the lenses for eye tracking you automatically jump to the assumption that it would be on the unprotected side of the plastic nearer your eyes... I doubt anyone outside of Pimax knows for sure, but that was a quick jump to only conceiving of the worst scenario. As a whole the system is odd but I don't at all think it's bad, at least in concept.
Dude, I wouldn't put "Pimax Pubic Hairs VR" on my face. : ) Thanks for the confirmation on the latest Pimax chapter. We seem to have only ever diagreed on the VP2 - it's my daily driver and love it with Extreme resolution (3080ti) and wireless. Appreciate you bro.
About VR vs AR image quality and experience, is projecting into the lens better than, worse than, or equal to having a screen emitting that light in front of you?
2:52 not having low persistance is a fatal flaw of that thing. Anybody that have used a Oculus DK1 will know how everything turns into a blurry mess when you move your head around
@@paulct91 Yes. The target audience for that price are hardcore enthausiasts that most likeley already use and prefer lighthouse tracking for its various benifits when used only in one location. Inside out tracking is great for portability, but honestly to drive this headset a top of the Line PC is needed, so most people with that kind of PC already have basestations if willing to pay that much.
To be fair, how often are you going to be changing lenses? They are doing it constantly to demo the capability for the roadshow. However in reality, I doubt you will be changing the lenses very often. So is this really an issue?
Isn't the idea that you would game with the high FOV lens and then switch to a high detail lens when you want to watch a movie afterwards? So I think the expectation is that you'd be changing them possibly several times/day depending on your use.
thats the thing it comes with proly the wide fov attached you will never have to even open it,its just nice to know that if something happen to it you scratch it or something you can just buy a new pair.
@@CalebA Honestly even then my point still stands. Once maybe twice a day is very different from 12-14 times a day in a room full of people going in and out.
I got to try to Crystal a few days ago at vrdays. They didn't let me try the controllers and now I know why, thanks for the video :) One thing I noticed is a slight lens distortion when I moved my head (just a little, not as bad as the varjo headset that I also tried on the vrdays). The headset should compensate for that but it seems their algorithm falls a little short. Did you have any problem with distortions? I wonder how it would work when you use 3rd party lenses. They would have a different profile that needs to be compensated for differently.
With normal HMDs flight sims can be really annoying, as you have to turn completely around to see behind you. This is a huge pain in the neck, literally and figuratively for any combat flight sim I have tried. It would be really nice if someone else could at least add a bit of FOV to their HMD.
I agree, but even with a bigger FOV ( around 180° which is close to the human fov) a VR pilot is handicapped compared to trackir. This is why I use a small tool called VR necksafer when I fly in vr. One button push on the joystick and you can turn your head to 180° back immediately.
I bought a pimax 8kx and it was completely usless with my ipd of 64. The smallest setting on the lenses was a distance of 68, despite what the software read.
I think the biggest problem Pimax has is that I think the biggest problem Pimax has is that are trying to do too much at the same time. They have always had too many products and with too many utilities or accessories that don't make sense. For me they should focus on a single headset, only one product, two at most. If the visual quality of the Pimax Crystal is very good stay with that, without interchangeable lenses as you say, with a fov of 120-140º, without all the standalone system or battery and try to make the headset as small and comfortable as possible. Improve the software as much as possible, adjust the price and you would have a breakthrough product. Thank you very much for your videos, you do a great job!
YES.. I told Pimax this as well. They're trying to do too much at the same time. They're being derailed by what other companies are doing (or trying to do) instead of focusing on one thing and doing it very well. Get the Portal and 12K out the door sooner and done right instead of going in all directions with this Portal thing. A good idea, but not ready and obviously taking away what they COULD be doing for the core product. Crystal/12KQLED.
I think pimax has a place in the future of VR but they need to stick to what they do best. Every time hear about pimax, it's about the large field of view.
Tbf, the Crystal's FoV is still pretty large. Wider than the Index. Their crazy 200deg headsets also have crazy distortion and there is close to zero distortion on the Crystal so I prefer that.
@@3lbiosQuite the opposite it is reported by MRTV and some ither youtubers that Crystal's FOV is slightly worse then Index but a little then the majority of 90 degree VR headsets. Watch MRTV channel, he was quite honest at least this time.
@@mrbilginc I don't need to watch anything, I own the Index, I tried the Crystal, Crystal's horizontal FoV to me is wider than the Index. I'd say about 10-15%
Pimax 5k plus lense feels like im looking through the fish tank. Its just poorly made lense which gives eyestrain too. I guess from MRTV's review, Crystal gonna have same issue with the lense
I'd be more impressed if they used the XR2 Gen 2 chip, then they could get some interesting stuff happening. But Gen 1.. nar Local dimming should help with black levels. The black levels don't exist for example on Pico-4 or Quest-2, they are dark grey! As for the film coating, well that COULD be on the inside as to avoid rubbing off, but yeah getting that plastic cover perfectly clean and smudge free could be a major issue for people. Guess we will find out from the early adopters :) I wouldn't be able to afford the Crystal anyway until end of 2023, and by that time we should have more options on horizon (Valve).
I think the way to look at the Pimax Portal is that it is a Android Gaming device first and-foremost. Their argument is that there are loads of gaming phones but they are held back by the phone form factor and having to include phone features. It could be a pretty good product for people who are really into thier Android gaming. They're then hoping that once someone has taken the bait of the core product they might feel like they "might as well" but the addons like the VR holder too and then maybe if they like their taste of VR they will eventually buy a proper headset from PiMax 🤷 So basically we are in no way the audience for the Portal but - judging by the very successful Kickstarter - an audience does exist.
Yeah I would say the VR capability is an added bonus but not considered to be a primary feature. It's a gaming handheld with a great display and specs and bonus VR mode (which could be great for getting more people into VR)
Sorry but as a handheld that thing sucks, no one want 4K due to battery life + heat, no one want 5.5 inch when your phone can be over 6 inch, no one want XR2 when 2020 flagship beats it..... In a days of windows Handheld taking over the market at price of 800$ and Steam Deck at 350$ or so, it's stupid to buy Portal as Handheld first Edit; if you want android handheld buy a phone that's faster, have better display, can be used as a phone as well
@@zig131 that's nothing compared to others, for example Arpara sold out in 12 mins, this took 6 hours, but where's Arpara? Failed! Selling out in Kickstarter is alot easier than expected but when product actually goes for market it's not easy to succeed
I also thought that exchangable lenses are not a good idea. From what Pimax said, the higher FOV lenses you tested have 35PPD and the high fidelity lenses with lower FOV have 42PPD. 35 is already over the top. G2 is around 23 and it has really solid picture quality with little SDE. 35 is more than enough. The fact the tracking is so bad is heavily disappointing. I also counted on them giving lighthouse based tracking by default or at least give an option from the get go when you order the headset to either buy a standalone version or kit with lighthouse tracking and no standalone capabilities. That would be the best deal. It would further lower the price as well. Valve though can be a pain in the butt. No wonder they don't want to allow anyone else to sell their controllers. They are out of stock constantly. Valve can't even supply properly for their own needs. Controllers were out for like 2-3 months in EU and I see in US on amazon after they were back in stock for a brief while, there are only a few left. I was really hoping for Pimax original sword controllers to get better. They had the potential but they are not compatible with so many games that they are only good for beat saber and nothing else. It also seems like Pimax is widthdrawing from production of the other headsets. 8KX has only new units for the latest revision that is only NVIDIA compatible. Everything else is out of stock for a long time now. 5K Super is not available in Europe anymore and it seems like it might be stop being produced all together with how the things are going for Pimax. Even though it's a really good entry level high FOV headset. It sucks to see that because Pimax could really have solid choices. All they have to do is focus on their current headsets and issues and take care of them. If they put their money into making their current headsets setup problem free, comfortable from the get go and plug and play I'm pretty sure more people would buy those. Same goes for the controllers. So much wasted potential for gimmicks that not many will use.
Hi Bradley...currently what would you rank as your top 3 VR headsets? I'm trying to decide whether to update to the Quest Pro from the Quest 2 (I also own the Quest 1 & the Gear VR) & am thinking of buying my 10 year old Niece the Pico 4 (she likes using my Quest 2 but tends to say its too heavy sometimes...& hurts her neck...so I didn't think of buying her a Quest 2)
Index, Quest Pro (if money is truly not an object), Quest 2 (bang for buck). I havent had the chance to try Pico 4 yet, unfortunately. It sounds like it may be better than Quest 2 for PC VR.
@SadlyItsBradley I don't have a PC for proper PCVR (just Shadow which has worked quite well with virtual desktop) so the index isn't really an option for me. A friend can get me 20% off the Quest Pro (which I can also pay over 12 months interest free...so £100 a month...I can comfortably afford that) I'm glad it's in your top 3. Thank you for your reply 👍
@SadlyItsBradley two more questions....sorry. Do you think the Quest Pro's colour passthrough quality can improve with software updates & do you think the depth perception could be updated so that surroundings could be automatically detected instead of having to manually map out surroundings? I know you have knowledge of software coding so thought you best to ask
@@neilrisley1321 apparently they are looking into automatic plane detection. I do believe that can be added with a software update some day. As far as camera quality goes, I genuinely don’t expect it to get hugely better with software. If it could, they wouldn’t be looking into using two color cameras for Quest 3 (Stinson)
@SadlyItsBradley hopefully the automatic plane detection can be added then. I don't think the quality will improve much either. I'm still seeing the Quest Pro as an Awesome bit of tech tho (& unlike most I feel like the price tag can somewhat be justified when put up against the likes of Varjo & Pimax) I just hope Meta have a few surprises up there sleeves when it comes to updates/improvements with the Pro & also hope developers will implement updates to use foverated rendering in other games (like what has been done with Red Matter 2) 🤞 Thanks again for taking time to reply
13:30. VALVE... Please! Swappable lenses aside - as Brad said, keep the fov set installed and the system sealed. If this was LH tracked, it sounds like the Crystal would be an actually good Pimax headset...
I wish they'd create one actually finished, polished and consumer-ready product instead of making us pay to beta test iterations, I was really hoping the Crystal would be the one.. I guess I'll wait for the Crystal 4k, 4kx, 4kplus etc. Thanks for being so objective as always.
8:57 finnaly someone also seeing this issue, I had to deal with this issue way back with my htc vive because I always switched lenses and then a bit of dust came into the displays...it was so hard to get out i had to literaly to disassemble my headset and clean the displays... I know there are some glasses in beetween with the pimax but that doesnt solve the issue with the dust is just on the glasses and its still hard to get out why cant they just focus on one good headset without this bs that they are doing like who is going to buy that krap google Cardboard clone over an quest or used other pc vr headsets...
I once forced myself to watch a david Icke video ... he talked for 25 minutes straight and said absolutely nothing - about anything. He just lead the audience in a round of "You know what I'm talking about" and "We all know what's coming" "it's coming soon" "Things are changing" "I don't have to tell you" "We're all on the same page" That's how I feel now watching(listening) to a Pimax presentation
I didn't watch the last one (about Portal) for that exact same reason. I am already tired of Meta marketing keynotes. And Pimax is on another level past em
Thank you for sharing! I am hoping to go to one of their showcases with a friend. Not sure if I would ever buy it. It’s a lot of money for a company with a poor track record.
List of features that are not working on the Crystal yet. Eye tracking and therefore, Auto IPD and Foveated rendering. Wireless, Lighthouse faceplate, the final PC cable, inside out tracking that works. All the firmware and software to make all that work. Pimax is saying they are going to ship in March.
PHUCKING A Brad. I am super BUMMED what you shared, BUT, BUT...SUPER appreciative for your honestly. I am canceling my pre-order. I'm not just a SIMM'r, I like ALL Games
Keep your preorder. Wait for the reviews of the finished product. You might regret canceling your preorder. Could take months to get one after that if you decide you want it.
I think the tablet portable thing is a horrible idea. However, and this is a strong however; I’ve owned and used Oculus CV1, ho reverb g2, Vive pro 2, quest 2, and the Pimax 8KX. I can never go back to low FOV headset. It removes those welding goggle black tubes you’re looking through. The FOV is too immersive. I’ve now been running the 8KX for a year now.
I absolutely love Pimax. Yea they are ambitious, but my 8kx is BONKERS good. So if they keep bringing the high end headsets, I'm very very happy. Even if it takes a while longer than people hope, the 12k is going to be the absolute top of VR when it comes out (the same way the 8kx is, FOV just can't be touched by anyone else on the market). Yea, they need to keep working and bring lighthouse and get a few other smaller things taken care of. But in the end their headsets with lighthouse tracking is top notch. You just can't beat it with anything else out there (and the price point is FAR more reasonable than anyone else).
Your correct on the size issue. This has always been my issue with VR. They are large, uncomfortable for long sessions. The move to go smaller and lighter is the correct one and these companies that want to double down on the large size headsets will not stay around or maybe they will persist with a very small, group of enthusiasts which in my mind is the same as irrelevancy. People want true mainstream adoption for VR, its smaller and lighter so the tech needs to focus in that direction. Thanks for your thoughts friend.
I can recommend the Pico 4 and fits perfect to my dickhead. Certainly the best for wireless PCVR with great tracking and can't feel the latency. But also more and more Quest 2 titles appearing in the Pico store.
Can't we have both? Compact and light for mainstream and also have bulky high tech ones? I don't understand why it's always 1 or the other with things. Personally I'd wear a bulky headset if it's more immersive. Since I don't take it anywhere anyway and use pcvr.
@@chrisr5675 The few are willing to wear them if they are big and bulky as evidenced by the fact VR really hasn't gone mainstream yet. I quite literally only know of one other person with a VR headset and this person doesn't wear it much cause "it's to heavy and FOV sucks." lol . Most people don't want this big, heavy, bulky thing on their heads. neck starts to hurt, head hurts. This is my opinion but I truly believe its so, IF the industry doesn't get serious about taking VR in a smaller, lighter, greater FOV, etc, etc, direction than VR will remain a niche thing so, for NOW, sure big and bulky and compact and light can coexist but ultimately, if people are serious, big and bulky needs to go to make way for small, compact, light, etc etc.
Yes it does seem to be a bit of a work in process. I've had a Pimax 8KX for a year or so now, and I've had no problems with it, once I got it set up. I have a large IPD of 75mm, can't use the Quest headset (it is just too small), same for the HP Reverb G2. I've tried the Vive Pro 2, it doesn't have the IPD range and has a very small focus are. They don't sell the Index in Australia (and I believe it doesn't cater for large IPD's), so Pimax is my only real option for a high end VR headset, that caters for a large IPD (using the software adjustment and with the lenses having a large focus area). I'm hoping the Pimax 12K really works out. After I get a RTX4080.
The 8kx IPD max is documented as 72mm. It works well enough for your 75mm? I'm 73mm and am really worried about buying a Crystal with a supposed PID max of 71mm (or 72mm, depending on the source). Thoughts?
Mate you need at least a 4090 to drive 12k or Crystal, I couldn’t use full potential of a G2 with 13700k+4090 OC+6000MHZ DDR5 RAM in sims, MSFS2020 is still below 60FPS…I’m hoping 4090ti brings complete CUDA core of AD102 to boost the performance further, otherwise we will need to wait for 5090 to truly unleash the power of high end VR headsets.
@@森里螢一-f3c I wish I heard more about what components are needed for 90fps or more with an 8k or better HMD. If you know where I can learn more about it, please reply.
@@annode Just search youtube for your favorite titles+key words such as 4090 or 3090ti and you should get a rough idea about how much horse power will be required to drive a smooth experience. Most of those videos will list details of components about their setup so you can start from there.
My issues with all the wide FOV Pimax headsets is that I was one of the many that suffered from eye strain with their headsets. The consesus is that is from the canted displays. During one of the MRTV chats with Josh and Sweviver, I asked in the chat many many times about this issue, nobody would respond, kind of like when you were trying to tell them about the ghosting with the Portal unit. Anyhow Kevin Henderson joined the chat and responded to me saying that these newer housing were constructed to make the panels have much less canting. Anyhow Im thinking about making the trek to the Austin TX roadshow on the Dec 10th to demo the Crystal, problem is that Im positive that the Crystal at the roadshow will be totally different than the on that will be released to the public . Hmmmm what to do???
You’re not the only one who suffered from eye strain with Pimax headsets, it’s just requiring so much tweaking to use it comfortably…There’s no way I’m going to buy another headset causing problems to my eyes no matter how good the experience is, eye health is so much more important. Maybe you should wait for the new HTC headset…or new Varjo headset.
i was an original 5k kickstarter backer, turned into a paperweight for me because the eyestrain was so bad... not to mention their buggy software (at least during that time). Anwyay, zero desire to buy anything pimax ever since.
The eye strain issue is because all of our engineers are legitimately near-sighted and so is 75% of the Chinese population. The lenses were biased towards myopic people. We've fixed the issue now and changed our internal testing procedures to ensure this doesn't happen again in the future.
So to answer your question (sorry I didn't during the stream, too much going on), the eye strain issue should no longer be a problem. Out of hundreds of testers during VRdays there were no complaints to my knowledge
@@WhatsupAbroad I was talking to fellow VR enthusiast friend of mine today and we are thinking about coming down to Texas next weekend to see you and the guys. Hopefully will get to meet you and Sweviver and put that Crystal to the test. Thanks Josh for the info!
Im trying to decide between the Crystal or the Valve deckard. (unannounced) I wanna see what valve comes out with first. My index has always been my go to for PCVR.
Brad you are not crazy. Don’t let the talking flower pots get to you. Just keep warping the rift and low persistance will float with the smiling faces.
As a long-time Pimax user (5k+ from Kickstarter, 5K Super now), I have to say most of this is pretty close to what I was expecting lol. I have absolutely no hope or expectations for the Portal, but the Crystal or 12k have decent potential to become my next headset.
I've invested enough time, money, and effort into fixing my headsets and making them work for me that I don't think I would trade them for any other headset currently. Whether this is because my fixes have made it into a genuinely good headset or it's just sunk-cost fallacy at this point, I can't be too sure.
That being said, I am excited to be following these new headsets, not because I expect any of them to be great out of the box, but because I think they have the potential to be made into something great with the right suite of fixes. I expect the Crystal is going to be months away from being meaningfully "launched", and perhaps by then the tracking will be good enough to strap a Tundra to it for continuous calibration. The SteamVR plate would be optimal but I'm just going to go ahead and assume that is going to be broken on launch until proven otherwise. And the exchangeable lenses definitely does feel like a gimmick, but I figure once you spend some time getting them perfectly clean and attached correctly, it'll be fine. Extra weight and complexity for no real gain to me sure, but probably not a deal-breaker.
As for the eye-tracking film, I've cleaned the lenses of the current Pimax eye tracking module (which is basically e-waste until you fix it) several times but so far have not seen any degradation in image quality, but I do see that as a valid concern. I've taken care to be very gentle when doing so in order to avoid whatever is making them function as an IR mirror.
Either way, I'm not surprised by the state of the headset, I was expecting a broken product. But I'm hopeful that as long as the hardware is good enough, it might still be worth it to buy and fix up. From the sounds of it, that sounds like my hopes might be founded.
Yeah. Unless Varjo or Valve or _somebody_ starts talking about a human-FoV headset, my next purchase will be a 12K. Will not ever buy another scuba mask no matter what features it has, or how annoying and fiddly my current 8K X is. Pimax's downsides are real, but they're the only game in town.
Great post but my god, this all seems hassle. I just want it to work out the box not to need to go back to school to maintain a headset I've paid $1600 for. Personally I'll be waiting to see what the new Quest 3 or Quest Pro 2 is like and hopefully that will give a nice bump in resolution and visuals with an updated software stack to support the mixed reality experiences.
Pixmax is for the tinkerer audience, which has it's place. I can kinda respect even what they're doing... since unlike a fresh new startup, we know exactly what we're dealing with and that some fixing will be required. It's deceptive to newbies, I guess, but to the tinkerer it's OK.
I love comments like this, it's as good as a second video! Very interesting to hear some thoughts from an experienced Pimax user. I've been avoiding Pimax until now, but for what I'm interested in, the Crystal is definitely the most interesting headset atm.
The lenses are gimmicky for sure, but it could also have some advantages like easily swapping them out if scratched or not having to send the entire headset to China if your lenses are off in some way. The cleaning and such shouldn't be harder or more sensitive than cleaning a sensor on a camera, which might not be for the average consumer but shouldn't be an issue at all for an enthusiast.
My greatest concern after watching this, is the tracking... I guess we'll have to wait and see what Pimax or the community comes up with.
since you owned both 5k+ and super could you tell me how is SDE when you compare those 2 headsets? I heard some opinions that Super has better clarity and less SDE than 5K+ and some even claim it's better or at least as good as Index clarity wise but I've yet to actually hear that from someone who owned both. I would be really glad if you could answer as I might be buying 5K Super soon.
Oops it’s not even the final version
lol, 10:41 I'm one of the dudes in the background there, the main guy operating the Crystal was actually a volunteer, NOT an actual Pimax employee it seems~ The Chinese Guy that was there was actual Engineering and he Came Over after you left and adjusted the lenses properly. Like i mentioned in another comment, It turns out the lenses they had there (the wide FOV lenses only, and the others were "stuck in customs") had a modification applied, where they added spacers to the lens magnetic mounts to have the lenses properly align and sit mounted properly since there was an issue with that prototype/demo mode we were using. This allowed the lens to more easily move around and misalign, just a side effect of demoing a prototype...
@@MrAcarlo I don't think such a user would be buying a $1600 pimax headset.
It's really really great to hear someone speaking their mind so clearly and without sugarcoating it. I wish everyone was like that. Great video!
You're not crazy, you're just ahead of your time. It's hard to get excited when you already know what's going to happen.
But you don't know what's going to happen. I think it looks great so far and deserves the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
He's not a fortune teller bro
I think I'm crazy.
Oops this aged badly lol just like sadly it’s Bradley’s opinion
Everything Pimax was showing at the roadshow was definitely taken with a lot of salt for me personally, I would want it to work out but I can also see the past as clear as day and we need to see things happen properly to believe it...
Until then I'll keep my distance
Thank you so much for diving so much deeper than I could!
Great video Brad, best review of the Crystal so far. I spent a lot of time at the Pimax booth at two roadshows checking out the Crystal. I think it's an amazing enthusiast headset but the price is steep and as you say, I wouldn't want to buy it early because half the features aren't there yet and the FW is in a super early state. I'll take a look at this headset in a year and if there's still no competition I might consider getting it. I love that you downplayed local dimming and mentioned the colors. The colors on this thing are absolutely fantastic and this pops out in every game and every scene. The local dimming is also fantastic but it's more important in space sims and horror/dark games and a little less important in other games. It should be mentioned that this headset will be an absolute holy grail for space simmers. I saw ED on it and I was blown away. You WILL want this if you play ED a lot, trust me, it looks insane. Horror games maybe as well but that would require Pimax to nail the audio which they probably won't (it SUCKS currently, they need to do proper EQ). I did actually get to check out tracking on the Portal and it kinda worked but there was a huge offset applied so it's currently unusable. BTW you didn't mention Wifi6 and WiGig support on the Crystal, it's a nice feature but no one got a chance to see it in action yet. If tracking is worse than G2 then it will only be a (great) headset for simmers or people who have lighthouses and will buy the extra LH faceplate. At which point it's over 2000EUR and well...The G2 looks like such good value in comparison (it is being discontinued it seems). Oh and the Aero is dead, there is no reason to get the Aero now when you can get the Crystal, no advantage over it whatsoever.
The Aero is only in trouble if the Crystal software and hardware actually work.....but we all know the reality of Pimax. So Aero will be just fine
@@jamiesalmonsculpture8599 How is Aero better in that regard though. As far as I know they don't even have reprojection. Or sound. What it does have is crazy distortion, much higher than what current Crystal prototypes have so..
@@3lbios distortion was fixed awhile ago. It's software is built from the ground up for training real pilots, so it's safe to say it's very solid indeed. Reprojection coming s9on, and sounds like it will be the best so far
@@jamiesalmonsculpture8599 Well, Crystal coming soon as well :P And distortions haven't been fixed apparently because I saw them when reviewing a demo unit recently at Varjo booth at a VR conference.
This really is the only channel for hardcore VR tech breakdown.
mrtv is pretty good too
Just remember that being crazy does not make you wrong :)
As a sim racer, I'm super keen for the Crystal and thankful they didn't go for base station tracking. I'd have got the Aero a year ago if only if it had inside out tracking (and onboard audio). Not fussed at all about the controllers. In fact I wish they'd offer a version without controllers for cheaper.
...why?
Why are base stations a no-go for you 'as a sim racer'?
@Joseph Cudejko because I have no room to mount base stations in my situation and nor do I have any interest in it.
@@jcudejko Not OP, but base stations are not cheap - so it's significant additional cost for very little benefit for a seated experience where you don't use the VR controllers.
I’m in the same exact boat, would have snapped up the Aero (especially during Black Friday) if it didn’t require basestations and an external audio situation.
Based on what you're saying, it sounds like the Crystal is already the perfect PCVR headset with the two minor "problems" that you need to use it with the lighthouse addon, and that you shouldn't swap out the lenses. But those seem like really minor issues, anyone who does PCVR will of course use lighthouse, and most people will also never swap out the lense. So why does it overall sound like you are not super excited even though these small non-issues are the only problems you saw?
I think the most important part of a HMD is tracking. Even over visuals. And right now, it doesn't have any that works. So I cannot get excited about it until they show it off. They don't have the lighthouse attachment to try yet.
@@SadlyItsBradley Sorry for the intrusion. Here I disagree. Quest2 has the best tracking but not so satisfying visuals; I used it for two weeks, now it's collecting dust. G2 has great visuals but average limited tracking; I'm still enjoying G2 after more than 1 year, even on ordinary not-sim games like Alyx, Lone Echo Eye of the Temple, Kayak VR, etc.. According to science of perception, sight is the most important sense to fool in order to induce the VR illusion. Sight is so powerful that influences other senses; e.g. you can perceive smells (bradleysmells :) ) or sounds depending on visual stimuli. Immersion and presence are first of all driven by visual cues. I'm always disappointed by experiences with poor visuals. That's not only me. Several tests conducted on several human subjects show that sight and visual cues are the core of today VR. Obviously also tracking and 3D audio are important. You have the best VR when visuals, audio and tracking/interaction are all good and couple each other. If considered separately, I would say that visuals alone make the 48% of the VR experience, tracking/interaction the 27%, audio the 25%. Not by chance tracking is not always part of the sci-fi VR imagery, see The Matrix or Existenz, where you lie inert while diving in VR through BCI; VR is a mental status, not necessarily involving the body, just the brain. Sci-fi apart, obviously, I agree that tracking/interaction is important today; it's something coming from Wii and Kinect experiences and evolving towards computer vision. I can see that with Quest2 tracking I have smoother physical experience while playing Eleven TT in comparison to G2. But when I play games like Alyx or Lone Echo etc., there is no comparison, G2 is mind blowing. And I cannot accept the trade with Index because of the old visuals and bulky/expensive lighthouse. The fact is, tracking/interaction is the weakest part of today VR systems, the hardest and most expensive piece of tech; it's hard to develop in graphic engines virtual gestures and movements that have good correspondence with real tracked gestures and movements. Most of time tracking/interaction feels awkward even on the best HMDs and games/apps. In conclusion I disagree on this point. Just my informed point of view on the tech. Keep going the good job Brad! :)
@@videogamesart8057 Fully agree, I own a G2 and the Index and I use the G2 for most games and experiences. I'd be fine with a Crystal and lighthouse tracking but who knows when they'll start shipping the faceplate and what the total cost will be (probably huge).
@@3lbiosBrad is right about Pimax, they always rush the products, their HMDs are never well designed despite the huge price, they sell unbalanced prototypes requesting a lot of tweaking and compromises and coming with a lot of excesses and defects. They don't learn from past mistakes and from suggestions by experienced enthusiasts. They never focus on one single optimized device,
@@videogamesart8057 Yeah but for me the bar is already low in that regard. I've spent countless hours debugging various issues on the G2. I hear Pimax stuff also has tons of issues in released products and requires a lot of tinkering. I still love my G2. I believe a lot of the usual Pimax crappiness will go away because the FoV here is actually sane and games won't break or have glitches because of it. I expect most of the early issues on the Crystal will be in the features that are not working yet or they haven't been able to show (tracking, auto-IPD, eye-tracking, wifi/wigig, etc). If you only play sims, chances are you'll be happy with the Crystal even on day one. Likely happier than the people who got the G2 on day one ;)
Very interesting review/update many thanks Brad, i've recently moved from the G2/3090 combo to the AERO/4090 setup and i think its the new defacto standard for quality VR.
goddamn congrats!
This is still very much a personal thing. I sent my Aero back for several reasons, one being the FOV was like looking through binoculars. To my shock I FAR preferred my 8KX over it in every game except for MSFS2020. The 8KX has at least 2X the immersion for me. In fast-paced games and anything involving lots of movement the 8KX periphery lets me see what's coming or let's me feel the speed. The Aero felt like I had blinders on and I got decimated in comparison. That level of clarity makes zero difference in many games. It all depends on what you're playing. For people who have large FOV and love it, it's pretty impossible to give that up. I've seen many people who shared my experience. Don't get me wrong, the 8KX is far from perfect.
The 4090 does rock my 8KX for sure. I can finally get 90 fps in most games with everything cranked up.
In a world where Apple and Samsung are removing headphone Jack's and now even chargers Pimax is including two types of lenses to give us even more control over our preferences. I kind of like it myself but honestly if they just perfected 8k or 12k 220 degrees with no God rays they win big like really really big. Imagine if they even had 30% of meta's budget all focused on 12k 220 degrees (not 200)
you fucker, pimax does not include headphone jack either anymore in portal. pimax wouldn't even get 1% of meta accomplishment with 500% meta budget. this is cash grab from desperate people like you who probably play one game only all the time, some sort of simulators
@Pixel I think Pimax is pretty good myself and I love my 5k and vorpx for dozens of games
@@brothatwasepic if you love vorpx, you are not anyones target market. vorpx is dogshit and has nothing to do with VR. it's a 3D TV emulator at best.
@Pixel Merry Christmas. You should try Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, RDR2 and even Battlefield/Cod with Vorpx. So much money in just simply bringing out fov corrected games IMO since studios will not invest in full VR hand eye etc tracking true VR ports such as Skyrim VR. Might as well open up the world to VR with their favorite games. I guarantee that is going to be the angle to get the average consumer in totally IMO of course. What do I know of course hehe. I'm totally enjoying the experience myself.
@@brothatwasepic I've used vorpx like 8 or 9 years ago. This isn't vr. It's 3d tv gaming. Gta vr mod changed nothing. This isn't good consumers, this is for desperate gamers. Cool to see graphics on vr, but the gameplay interactivity simply isn't there
because no one else but maybe Varjo is doing high end VR like this. I have tried most every headset and I wouldn't trade my 8k X for any other current product. this isn't for everyone. I have own 7 headsets of which 3 are PIMAX
to be clear I would not be interested in the Portal but the Crystal or 12k X has really no competition
You are a Pimaxian! LOL
It seems I am too.
@@stevetb7777 I am a SIm guy and FOV and Clarity are the most important
Super helpful insights! Thanks, Bradley.
Pimax is innovating and actually trying to give customers their dream VR headset. While mainstream companies are working on ways to milk customers with small iterative changes on each VR release. That’s why pimax will always be ahead of the game. It’s sort of like those darn AAA games that milk your money with micro transactions.
I love my 8kx and my 5k+ before that. I need the FOV, it's enraging that other companies are still using antiquated decade-old FOV sizes - shame on them. Adding eye tracking and all this other nonsense is silly when headsets don't even have a proper FOV yet. And obviously the toy mobile SOCs are to weak for it.
Only Lighthouse tracking is up to my quality standards. But until somebody else makes a proper wide FOV headset, Pimax has been really the only PC VR headsets I really love to use. Nobody else is really doing it. When the 12k is eventually released, someday and the Lighthouse faceplate is available, I will take a look at it, until then I am just ignoring all the noise about other Pimax products including the Crystal (due to lower FOV). I expect the 12k will happen eventually, Pimax moves slow but they do eventually deliver. So maybe 18 months or 24 months from now.
I have gathered over the years that working with Valve on tracking has been problematic not just for Pimax but for others as well, which is why why more headsets don't use Lighthouse as Valve insists on making the Base Stations themselves and Valve has been notoriously annoying when it comes to joysticks since "someone" at Valve seems to hate them. Lighthouse never became the universal tracking system it was initially pitched as, as Valve keeps such a tight hold over it.
So it is unsurprising companies are forced to turn to WMR (dead end now) or Qualcomm tracking, remember how Valve couldn't keep the Index itself in stock and was way backordered. Hard to sell a headset with Lighthouse when you can't sell Base Stations, companies are basically forced to use other tracking.
Removable lenses immediately struck me as a terrible idea, for the reasons you concluded as well. More things to go wrong. I just hope the 12k is a nice solid wide FOV Lighthouse headset without unnecessary complicated parts or too many points of failure on things like removable lenses. But my 8kx is so good, I will be happy chilling with it for a couple more years and would immediately replace it if something happened to it.
I really appreciate this writeup. I understand the frustrations a ton with FoV. I do agree that FoV is important in a LOT of VR scenarios. The fact that Pimax is teetering out of FoV focus seemed odd to me as an outsider, so seeing your writeup as a longtime Pimax user is very useful
G'damn, even the Oculus DK2 had low persistence.
Always appreciate your insights and honesty. Guess that is the last Pimax event you will be invited too.
if you want you can keep the 35 ppd lens and you dont need to worry about the rest .but its free and its coming with it i would see it as maybe someone wants the crystal but more business oriented with the 42 ppd. not everyone needs the high fov and plays sims. they dont need to switch the lenses so often they would just keep the one set away. and if someone wants to make lenses and it's for people who needs glasses it can happen too. still very good review id be using this for 3d movies and sims and sitting down games so happy that its good for that. it still does more than varjo aero at release, if tobii eye tracking comes at the same time.
For gaming I use Q2 for standalone and wireless PCVR.
But as a simmer, I'm still hopeful for the Crystal.
For simming; visuals, a wider fov and direct DVI are all important to me. And, because of my cockpit layout, it's really useful to have an inside out tracking option. So that only really leaves the G2 (which I use) or Crystal.
As you suggested though, and based on what we've seen from Pimax before, the real release date (for a finished product) is about a year after their 'launch' event.
As a simmer, I really like what Pimax tries to do and am glad they exist. But remain cautious of all the promises and will wait a little longer yet...
I think Crystal, when it is finished, will be the top simmer HMD honestly.
hearing you say that the tracking is worse then mixed reality one while i own reverb g2 is truly an achievement for pimax lol
I really believe in the Crystal, it has the potential to be a great headset. The price is right and the promised features, like the Wigig module for wireless lossless native pcvr and the hot-swappable batteries are amazing things that I just really hope will work as promised. It's said to hear about the tracking, but it explains why the controllers weren't even around on last week's roadshow. Imagine if you could use quest pro controllers with this guy, that would make the perfect vr setup imo.
Yea, it seems like the only real complaint about the crystal is the lack of lighthouse tracking (which they are going to be bringing with the face plates). Fair enough.... seems like a pretty small issue though.
He's giving Pimax free consultation.
I have a high budget (around 2000) that I would love to spend on an high end VR headset, but so far the only interesting one is the Crystal. I'm a little sad the Crystal might have crap tracking out the box, but if that is fixed then it seems to be the only thing viable for at the moment.
I'm definitely not buying any Meta products due to the whole "Locked unless you use an account" (even though that was fixed) but the other headsets just don't seem to be any better then the Index, and the Index is just too old (and not stand alone) for me to buy now. Hopefully the Crystal will be the thing I'm looking for cause I want my first headset by January. (I've waited 2 bloody years for a Deckard, can't wait any more!!)
Most things are locked down unless you use an account. Meta requires "Meta account" to use it for anything. Pico similarly requires "Pico account" to get past start up. Index requires "Steam account" and I'd be extremely surprised if Crystal didn't require "Pimax account" (or similar). Actually... WMR might not need MS account (or any account) to work, but don't hold me to it!
@@Niilomaan Oh I fully understand having an account. But the problem with Meta is that you needed to have a Facebook account. Facebook only lets you use a "real" name. So if my name was "Player" I can't actually make an account because Facebook doesn't think "Player" is a "real" name. But if I can create an account by just giving an fake name/username (such as "Villamor") then I'm fine with it.
I am not surprised at all. It's the usual "PIMAX".
Thanks for the info, I'm not surprised on this. Good work dude
thx matteo !
Matteo, one of the very non-simps about vr. Kudos
''am I crazy?'' yes.
xd
For the record the Samsung Gear VR was a massive sucess despite its problems, millions of units sold, supported by potentially tens of millions of phones.
I still have the first Gear VR released, for the Galaxy Note 4. It was MIND BLOWING at the time. Pretty awful compared to the best of today, but I had so much fun taking that around and sharing the future with people (who were also mind-blown)!
8:22 - A bigger issue is that without a detection method for swapping lenses this could end up causing users to have to switch between lens settings in software manually.
I think realistically users are going to only swap lenses until they've decided which they like best and then pretty much never change them again.
@@SargonDragon This may generally be true for some people, though that may also depend on ease of process and game genres.
There are so many people out there that just want a wireless index with upgraded visuals and good tracking. I really wish they would just focus on that instead of transformer headsets or other stuff. I hope that we finally get a worthy upgrade in 2023. I'm just tired of being disappointed in every new headset release. If the G2 drops in price again here in Canada on boxing day I think I'm getting one for my sim needs while I wait for Deckard or Quest 3 or Pro 2. The HTC headset could be interesting if has display port and good tracking but I'm thinking the fov will probably disappoint if it's the same as the flow.
G2 has trash tracking
@@ATP-Flo I wouldn't care much cause I would use it for Sim racing only. I have given up on getting everything in one headset and will be getting 2 headsets in the upcoming year..
@@simracingjunky9679 i tried it with MSFS 2020 for a week, can’t stand with that tiny sweet-spot, the overall experience is worse than Quest 2 with link(Yes DP mode can’t save that sweet spot mess).it’s on sale for a reason ,maybe try look at Varjo Aero if you only care about sims.
Thx Bradley, very informative as always. I went to Pimax's last roadshow for the 8kx and ended up buying it. Other than a 2 month delivery delay and some initial pitool problems I am still very happy with the product. That being said, I use it primarily for siming, so FoV + Resolution are absolute King for me. It is good to hear you speaking well of the displays and visuals but when I heard you speak about the lense system it really does sound like work in progress. At this point I am going to wait and see until the end of next year for an upgrade. To be fair, I don't think for a simer anything better is going to get released next year. I will not hold my breath for Valve, certainly not for Meta. But the biggest problem right now are quality games. Other than halflife alyx there has not been a single tripple A VR game release- ever. I cannot justify another hardware upgrade until I see new software that I will want to run on it.
Ya, I do think Simmers will love this HMD day one. As long as they keep the default FoV lens on
@@SadlyItsBradley personally I used an 8kx for sim racing and the tracking was jittery and would drift with Lighthouse 2.0 base stations even after recalibrating with the Steam SDK. It was unusable and after putting my Index back on, I was immediately a second a lap faster and everything was just stable and clear and smooth. The PiMax was just not useable and a competitive disadvantage and I had to sell it. The built in tracking was like 4DOF and not useable. The fact that the tracking sounds iffy already makes me 100% shelf this. Waiting on Deckerd.
The additional FOV is only half useful because they’re just stretching the image toward the edges - that might seem immersive, but for racing where you utilize your peripheral vision, stretching an image with lenses doesn’t do you any good. You need a screen that actually displays more pixels out toward the size.
Asgard's Wrath says you are full of f**king shit, and Lone Echo I & II are there to further stomp on that shit pile. There's been numerous full-fat AAA VR releases. People who complain that Half-Life: Alyx is the only major VR game worth playing are pathetically lazy idiots. I wouldn't expect many future major PCVR titles that aren't standalone ports though. PCVR and tethered VR in general is a complete technological dead-end market outside the simmer community with absolutely ZERO future. The Quest 3's XR2 Gen 2 is nearly as fast as a PS4 Pro and w/ a faster CPU to boot for shit's sake. Developer restrictions on game scope & scale on standalone are rapidly nearing complete irrelevance.
Thank you for this video Bradley, I was really interested in these hmds, but I guesd I will wait for Valves next headset
I definitely agree with all of your points here. Of course you know far more, having gotten to try it, but you are saying what needs to be said.
The more I hear about the Pimax Crystal the more I become convinced that they should have made this a PCVR headset with only the lenses that provide the same or slightly larger FOV as the Index. Pimax should have also done what HP did years ago and worked with Valve to also use the best audio solution in the industry on all of their headsets.
They could have sold the Crystal for $1000 or even less if they didn't have their own tracking or controllers or interchangeable lenses, and just used the Lighthouse SteamVR tracking on the headset. I would have loved to purchase that and paired it with my Lighthouse 2.0 base stations and Index controllers I already have.
Much higher resolution and better lenses combined with Tobii eye tracking and driver level dynamic foveated rendering with Valve Index audio and SteamVR tracking is pretty much the perfect upgrade for the Index that I can think of - that's what the Crystal should have been.
Pimax releasing the Crystal and the 12K kind of makes sense, but then to divert their resources again into a gimmicky product? The portal doesn't really need to exist, I would much rather then put for energy into the crystal and 12k
Pimax is the linux of VR. Yes, you can get it to work but its a fulltime job to keep it running. I use Arch btw.
100 percent agree. I spend more time getting the thing to work properly than actually using it..
Thank you for your honest review/thoughts. Much appreciated.
Sup Brad, I might of missed it but what was your impresion of the FOV versus the Valve Index?
It felt larger than index, but I didn’t get any measurements
Thank you for additional insight, compared to other feedback so far 🖤
Elite Dangerous was one reason I got in to VR so heavily. I started with an OG Vive. Tried a friend's Rift. Then I upgraded to an Index. I'm not playing enough ED to warrant another upgrade, but I can imagine how good it must have looked. My next HMD has to be an upgrade in almost all facets from my Index.
Yea don’t let this on persons opinion ruin it for u. MrTV has a nice review on this headset and for the most part a majority of folks who went to test the headset were pleased with the “pre-production” version. The final version will be spectacular.
I’m in the same situation. hard to beat the Index due to the amazing FOV and excellent audio (the G2s audio is inferior despite looking similar). Hoping Index2 will be announced soon
So sadly do you reccomend getting the Areo right now ,,,,i sim race mostly ?
If you literally only do sim stuff, I actually think the Crystal is a better Sim HMD than Aero cuz the fov isn’t “letterboxed”
The plan to add Lighthouse tracking later, told me that they didn't have much faith in the tracking they are using out of the box. Also, the fact that the max IPD is only 71, and the small FOV in such a wide headset is very disappointing.
Hi Brad. I was thinking that if pimax has access to these panels, doesn't it mean we should expect others to have them soon also?
Probably! The thing is, I think larger manufacturers want smaller HMDs with pancake lenses, so they don't wanna touch displays with anything bigger than 2.5" diagonal. These ones hit 3.2" per eye
These dudes had to the nerve to try and "Compare" PC VR headsets that weren't even running on the same PC Hardware, they had the Crystal running on a Beefy custom PC with a 3090Ti while the Varjo Aero was running on a cheaper 'open box' laptop with a laptop 3080 they bought off a shelf the day before, lol. They even had the settings for the Varjo turned way down/not calibrated properly (I took pictures of that for proof too, ha), Aside from the sketch Sales-man shit, The Portal and Crystal has ALOT of potential! but just not there yet... the hardware is complete... but AIO didn't even work yet ("waiting on firmware update") the Headset Audio didn't work yet ("waiting on firmware update...") PIMAX controllers 'worked' but were absolute garbage compared to anything else (like early WMR bad, pretty bad latency, yet also "waiting on Firmware updates to reduce latency..." Note they were prototypes and there is a chance this could have also been due to the batteries dieing/being less than 25% but still...) the Demo headset they had only had one set of lenses (the wide lenses) to demo ("the other set of lenses is stuck in customs cause it came from china...") and the lenses they had didn't fit right/had a defect (they had to rig some spacers in order to get things to line up for clarity, yet this caused the lenses to be able to shift more easily while demoing causing clarity issues) But when the Chinese engineer dude would come over and align everything it looked GREAT~! the QLED Panels were high resolution and the contrast and color was AMAZING, as a PCVR headset, the visual were GREAT (when lenses aligned and you got a good sweet spot..., IPD adjustment worked fine, (no where near as sophisticated as the auto-IPD the Varjo they dared to compare to had, but... 'it worked' and worked 'good enough' imo) my personal biggest issue was the head strap, The elastic vertical/over head strap is garbage and kept me from maintaining that sweet spot once I found it, they are still using the old-school Face-Hugger style of headset strap and they really need to change that imo, people were coming out of the demo with the red-ring on their face, 😂 The biggest downfall I've seen in most of these style of headsets is they release them 1 YEAR TOO EARLY, if they held the release of the Crystal exactly one year, Ironed out all the bugs, Made all the dozens of "Multiple Firmware Updates" BEFORE RELEASEING THE HEADSET then they would have a really decent product to demo and ship. If I got to demo what the Crystal (may) become a year from now (after all the firmware update, and everything worked flawlessly) then wow would PIMAX potentially have a GREAT product on their hands... but for now it's just still Not Ready 😮💨 It feels like they may just be trying to rush it out before they get more competition like the PSVR2... which isn't standalone or PCVR so i don't get it... but ok... The Crystal will get a bad reputation at launch just because they are shipping the product WAY TOO EARLY while there's still hardware and software bugs that (really) need to be worked out. and for ~$1600 I want a complete, comfortable, bug free, open-the box and play headset.... if they come out with a Deluxe headstrap of somekind, then maybe a year or two from now the Crystal will be on my radar (vs potentially *better* headsets like a future new oculus/meta, HTC/vive, or Valve Dekard, etc. headset) but the price is way too much for an unfinished product right now.
I also noticed at the roadshow that the Varjo Aero they were showing had crazy distortion (I think barrel distortion) which probably means they didn't have the software corrections enabled. Which is funny because they didn't have to do it, the Crystal still blows the Aero out of the water even when configured properly (I got to compare it properly at the second roadshow).
On point. My fear is that Pimax pushing a whole new line of products will result in the Crystal and 12k not getting adequate software/firmeware updates to become refined great headsets. :(
Thanks, Bradley! I wish I could afford pcvr!! I bet it is amazing
Sadness...
Update: Not as bad as I thought. Maybe? The tracking being awful is disappointing... I really don't mind the lens system much, though. As much as you're going on about higher FOV I'd sooner have higher PPD. Being able to appeal to both markets just helps. If you're perfectly happy with one set of lenses then you never even have to swap anyways. Though I find it curious that when talking about a layer on the lenses for eye tracking you automatically jump to the assumption that it would be on the unprotected side of the plastic nearer your eyes... I doubt anyone outside of Pimax knows for sure, but that was a quick jump to only conceiving of the worst scenario. As a whole the system is odd but I don't at all think it's bad, at least in concept.
Lens system could be pretty good for me, because my vision is godawful garbage. I need custom lenses on everything anyway. =)
“Am I crazy?” As a crazy person, I can confirm, you are crazy.
same and yes he is crazy and smells too
@@Harddiskfail the smelliest
Thanks for all !
Dude, I wouldn't put "Pimax Pubic Hairs VR" on my face. : ) Thanks for the confirmation on the latest Pimax chapter. We seem to have only ever diagreed on the VP2 - it's my daily driver and love it with Extreme resolution (3080ti) and wireless. Appreciate you bro.
About VR vs AR image quality and experience, is projecting into the lens better than, worse than, or equal to having a screen emitting that light in front of you?
2:52 not having low persistance is a fatal flaw of that thing. Anybody that have used a Oculus DK1 will know how everything turns into a blurry mess when you move your head around
Great video as always. How does the crystal visuals compared to the Quest Pro?
I would love the pimax just for handheld streaming from gaming pc as long as the controllers have no input lag.
Sorry if it's already been asked however how would you compare the FOV of the Pimax Crystal?
Felt larger than index
I'm thinking that Text me on Telegram is a scam?
I wish they sold this with just the lighthouse cover as a PC VR Headset. That would be great value compared to the varjo aero still
Supposedly it has inside-out tracking, is that not what you usually use?
@@paulct91 I think most people including me that are in the market for such a headset use basestations for better tracking anyway.
@@blenderalien For such a headset, is that because usually that is the only tracking method available to those headsets?
@@paulct91 Yes. The target audience for that price are hardcore enthausiasts that most likeley already use and prefer lighthouse tracking for its various benifits when used only in one location. Inside out tracking is great for portability, but honestly to drive this headset a top of the Line PC is needed, so most people with that kind of PC already have basestations if willing to pay that much.
YES.
To be fair, how often are you going to be changing lenses? They are doing it constantly to demo the capability for the roadshow. However in reality, I doubt you will be changing the lenses very often. So is this really an issue?
Isn't the idea that you would game with the high FOV lens and then switch to a high detail lens when you want to watch a movie afterwards? So I think the expectation is that you'd be changing them possibly several times/day depending on your use.
thats the thing it comes with proly the wide fov attached you will never have to even open it,its just nice to know that if something happen to it you scratch it or something you can just buy a new pair.
@@CalebA Honestly even then my point still stands. Once maybe twice a day is very different from 12-14 times a day in a room full of people going in and out.
I got to try to Crystal a few days ago at vrdays. They didn't let me try the controllers and now I know why, thanks for the video :) One thing I noticed is a slight lens distortion when I moved my head (just a little, not as bad as the varjo headset that I also tried on the vrdays). The headset should compensate for that but it seems their algorithm falls a little short. Did you have any problem with distortions? I wonder how it would work when you use 3rd party lenses. They would have a different profile that needs to be compensated for differently.
I thought the distortions weren’t awful. Usually Pimax hmds make me feel weird. I agree the distortions are less than Varjo aero
With normal HMDs flight sims can be really annoying, as you have to turn completely around to see behind you. This is a huge pain in the neck, literally and figuratively for any combat flight sim I have tried. It would be really nice if someone else could at least add a bit of FOV to their HMD.
I agree, but even with a bigger FOV ( around 180° which is close to the human fov) a VR pilot is handicapped compared to trackir. This is why I use a small tool called VR necksafer when I fly in vr. One button push on the joystick and you can turn your head to 180° back immediately.
For someone who is primarily a sim vr user, how would you say this compares to the Aero?
It’s better than Aero already
Pimax reminds me of the madcatz controllers.
I bought a pimax 8kx and it was completely usless with my ipd of 64. The smallest setting on the lenses was a distance of 68, despite what the software read.
At the 10:42 mark of the video - is that an old Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 joystick you were using?!
It was. One volunteer brought their entire sim setup for people to use. And it included that lol
@@SadlyItsBradley 100% guaranteed IL2 player 😊😂
I think the biggest problem Pimax has is that I think the biggest problem Pimax has is that are trying to do too much at the same time. They have always had too many products and with too many utilities or accessories that don't make sense.
For me they should focus on a single headset, only one product, two at most.
If the visual quality of the Pimax Crystal is very good stay with that, without interchangeable lenses as you say, with a fov of 120-140º, without all the standalone system or battery and try to make the headset as small and comfortable as possible.
Improve the software as much as possible, adjust the price and you would have a breakthrough product.
Thank you very much for your videos, you do a great job!
YES.. I told Pimax this as well. They're trying to do too much at the same time. They're being derailed by what other companies are doing (or trying to do) instead of focusing on one thing and doing it very well. Get the Portal and 12K out the door sooner and done right instead of going in all directions with this Portal thing. A good idea, but not ready and obviously taking away what they COULD be doing for the core product. Crystal/12KQLED.
I think pimax has a place in the future of VR but they need to stick to what they do best. Every time hear about pimax, it's about the large field of view.
This is how I feel too
Tbf, the Crystal's FoV is still pretty large. Wider than the Index. Their crazy 200deg headsets also have crazy distortion and there is close to zero distortion on the Crystal so I prefer that.
@@3lbiosQuite the opposite it is reported by MRTV and some ither youtubers that Crystal's FOV is slightly worse then Index but a little then the majority of 90 degree VR headsets. Watch MRTV channel, he was quite honest at least this time.
@@mrbilginc I don't need to watch anything, I own the Index, I tried the Crystal, Crystal's horizontal FoV to me is wider than the Index. I'd say about 10-15%
Pimax 5k plus lense feels like im looking through the fish tank. Its just poorly made lense which gives eyestrain too. I guess from MRTV's review, Crystal gonna have same issue with the lense
I'd be more impressed if they used the XR2 Gen 2 chip, then they could get some interesting stuff happening. But Gen 1.. nar
Local dimming should help with black levels. The black levels don't exist for example on Pico-4 or Quest-2, they are dark grey!
As for the film coating, well that COULD be on the inside as to avoid rubbing off, but yeah getting that plastic cover perfectly clean and smudge free could be a major issue for people. Guess we will find out from the early adopters :)
I wouldn't be able to afford the Crystal anyway until end of 2023, and by that time we should have more options on horizon (Valve).
I think the way to look at the Pimax Portal is that it is a Android Gaming device first and-foremost.
Their argument is that there are loads of gaming phones but they are held back by the phone form factor and having to include phone features.
It could be a pretty good product for people who are really into thier Android gaming.
They're then hoping that once someone has taken the bait of the core product they might feel like they "might as well" but the addons like the VR holder too and then maybe if they like their taste of VR they will eventually buy a proper headset from PiMax 🤷
So basically we are in no way the audience for the Portal but - judging by the very successful Kickstarter - an audience does exist.
Yeah I would say the VR capability is an added bonus but not considered to be a primary feature. It's a gaming handheld with a great display and specs and bonus VR mode (which could be great for getting more people into VR)
Sorry but as a handheld that thing sucks, no one want 4K due to battery life + heat, no one want 5.5 inch when your phone can be over 6 inch, no one want XR2 when 2020 flagship beats it.....
In a days of windows Handheld taking over the market at price of 800$ and Steam Deck at 350$ or so, it's stupid to buy Portal as Handheld first
Edit; if you want android handheld buy a phone that's faster, have better display, can be used as a phone as well
@@TRX25EX Well clearly some people want it as they have sold more than 518 🤷
@@zig131 that's nothing compared to others, for example Arpara sold out in 12 mins, this took 6 hours, but where's Arpara? Failed!
Selling out in Kickstarter is alot easier than expected but when product actually goes for market it's not easy to succeed
I still think that the pimax stuff is still too expensive. For example, the crystal is an improvement over the reverb G2, but is it $1000 better..?
This is why I love our good friend Brad - The Dr Emit Brown of VR x
I also thought that exchangable lenses are not a good idea. From what Pimax said, the higher FOV lenses you tested have 35PPD and the high fidelity lenses with lower FOV have 42PPD. 35 is already over the top. G2 is around 23 and it has really solid picture quality with little SDE. 35 is more than enough.
The fact the tracking is so bad is heavily disappointing. I also counted on them giving lighthouse based tracking by default or at least give an option from the get go when you order the headset to either buy a standalone version or kit with lighthouse tracking and no standalone capabilities. That would be the best deal. It would further lower the price as well.
Valve though can be a pain in the butt. No wonder they don't want to allow anyone else to sell their controllers. They are out of stock constantly. Valve can't even supply properly for their own needs. Controllers were out for like 2-3 months in EU and I see in US on amazon after they were back in stock for a brief while, there are only a few left.
I was really hoping for Pimax original sword controllers to get better. They had the potential but they are not compatible with so many games that they are only good for beat saber and nothing else. It also seems like Pimax is widthdrawing from production of the other headsets. 8KX has only new units for the latest revision that is only NVIDIA compatible. Everything else is out of stock for a long time now. 5K Super is not available in Europe anymore and it seems like it might be stop being produced all together with how the things are going for Pimax. Even though it's a really good entry level high FOV headset. It sucks to see that because Pimax could really have solid choices. All they have to do is focus on their current headsets and issues and take care of them. If they put their money into making their current headsets setup problem free, comfortable from the get go and plug and play I'm pretty sure more people would buy those. Same goes for the controllers. So much wasted potential for gimmicks that not many will use.
Hi Bradley...currently what would you rank as your top 3 VR headsets? I'm trying to decide whether to update to the Quest Pro from the Quest 2 (I also own the Quest 1 & the Gear VR) & am thinking of buying my 10 year old Niece the Pico 4 (she likes using my Quest 2 but tends to say its too heavy sometimes...& hurts her neck...so I didn't think of buying her a Quest 2)
Index, Quest Pro (if money is truly not an object), Quest 2 (bang for buck). I havent had the chance to try Pico 4 yet, unfortunately. It sounds like it may be better than Quest 2 for PC VR.
@SadlyItsBradley I don't have a PC for proper PCVR (just Shadow which has worked quite well with virtual desktop) so the index isn't really an option for me. A friend can get me 20% off the Quest Pro (which I can also pay over 12 months interest free...so £100 a month...I can comfortably afford that) I'm glad it's in your top 3. Thank you for your reply 👍
@SadlyItsBradley two more questions....sorry. Do you think the Quest Pro's colour passthrough quality can improve with software updates & do you think the depth perception could be updated so that surroundings could be automatically detected instead of having to manually map out surroundings? I know you have knowledge of software coding so thought you best to ask
@@neilrisley1321 apparently they are looking into automatic plane detection. I do believe that can be added with a software update some day. As far as camera quality goes, I genuinely don’t expect it to get hugely better with software. If it could, they wouldn’t be looking into using two color cameras for Quest 3 (Stinson)
@SadlyItsBradley hopefully the automatic plane detection can be added then. I don't think the quality will improve much either. I'm still seeing the Quest Pro as an Awesome bit of tech tho (& unlike most I feel like the price tag can somewhat be justified when put up against the likes of Varjo & Pimax) I just hope Meta have a few surprises up there sleeves when it comes to updates/improvements with the Pro & also hope developers will implement updates to use foverated rendering in other games (like what has been done with Red Matter 2) 🤞 Thanks again for taking time to reply
I appreciate your honest opinion
I'm gonna use the high fov lens for my left eye and high pixel density lens for my right...best of both worlds
13:30. VALVE... Please!
Swappable lenses aside - as Brad said, keep the fov set installed and the system sealed. If this was LH tracked, it sounds like the Crystal would be an actually good Pimax headset...
I wish they'd create one actually finished, polished and consumer-ready product instead of making us pay to beta test iterations, I was really hoping the Crystal would be the one.. I guess I'll wait for the Crystal 4k, 4kx, 4kplus etc. Thanks for being so objective as always.
If they can pull off better than Varjo Aero visuals at a much lower price point, I may take the plunge. Thanks Brad!
I think it already does that. If you’re a simmer, it’s a no brainer
No word on audio? I'm curious how good speakers and mics are.
8:57 finnaly someone also seeing this issue, I had to deal with this issue way back with my htc vive because I always switched lenses and then a bit of dust came into the displays...it was so hard to get out i had to literaly to disassemble my headset and clean the displays... I know there are some glasses in beetween with the pimax but that doesnt solve the issue with the dust is just on the glasses and its still hard to get out why cant they just focus on one good headset without this bs that they are doing like who is going to buy that krap google Cardboard clone over an quest or used other pc vr headsets...
I once forced myself to watch a david Icke video ... he talked for 25 minutes straight and said absolutely nothing - about anything. He just lead the audience in a round of "You know what I'm talking about" and "We all know what's coming" "it's coming soon" "Things are changing" "I don't have to tell you" "We're all on the same page"
That's how I feel now watching(listening) to a Pimax presentation
I didn't watch the last one (about Portal) for that exact same reason. I am already tired of Meta marketing keynotes. And Pimax is on another level past em
Thank you for sharing! I am hoping to go to one of their showcases with a friend. Not sure if I would ever buy it. It’s a lot of money for a company with a poor track record.
Well might being adding tracking to that record if they release a standalone with sub par tracking. Has me little concerned.
Awesome review/thoughts! Love that you’re always real! Thank you Brad!
List of features that are not working on the Crystal yet. Eye tracking and therefore, Auto IPD and Foveated rendering. Wireless, Lighthouse faceplate, the final PC cable, inside out tracking that works. All the firmware and software to make all that work. Pimax is saying they are going to ship in March.
PHUCKING A Brad. I am super BUMMED what you shared, BUT, BUT...SUPER appreciative for your honestly. I am canceling my pre-order. I'm not just a SIMM'r, I like ALL Games
The controllers will be updated, they've said it already. I wouldn't cancel if I were you, but to each their own.
Keep your preorder. Wait for the reviews of the finished product. You might regret canceling your preorder. Could take months to get one after that if you decide you want it.
I think the tablet portable thing is a horrible idea. However, and this is a strong however; I’ve owned and used Oculus CV1, ho reverb g2, Vive pro 2, quest 2, and the Pimax 8KX. I can never go back to low FOV headset. It removes those welding goggle black tubes you’re looking through. The FOV is too immersive.
I’ve now been running the 8KX for a year now.
I absolutely love Pimax. Yea they are ambitious, but my 8kx is BONKERS good.
So if they keep bringing the high end headsets, I'm very very happy. Even if it takes a while longer than people hope, the 12k is going to be the absolute top of VR when it comes out (the same way the 8kx is, FOV just can't be touched by anyone else on the market).
Yea, they need to keep working and bring lighthouse and get a few other smaller things taken care of. But in the end their headsets with lighthouse tracking is top notch. You just can't beat it with anything else out there (and the price point is FAR more reasonable than anyone else).
Thanks Brad, great vid. I will wait for what valve do next for my next pcvr headset. Psvr2 will keep me going I hope.
Your correct on the size issue. This has always been my issue with VR. They are large, uncomfortable for long sessions. The move to go smaller and lighter is the correct one and these companies that want to double down on the large size headsets will not stay around or maybe they will persist with a very small, group of enthusiasts which in my mind is the same as irrelevancy. People want true mainstream adoption for VR, its smaller and lighter so the tech needs to focus in that direction. Thanks for your thoughts friend.
I can recommend the Pico 4 and fits perfect to my dickhead. Certainly the best for wireless PCVR with great tracking and can't feel the latency. But also more and more Quest 2 titles appearing in the Pico store.
Can't we have both? Compact and light for mainstream and also have bulky high tech ones? I don't understand why it's always 1 or the other with things. Personally I'd wear a bulky headset if it's more immersive. Since I don't take it anywhere anyway and use pcvr.
@@chrisr5675 The few are willing to wear them if they are big and bulky as evidenced by the fact VR really hasn't gone mainstream yet. I quite literally only know of one other person with a VR headset and this person doesn't wear it much cause "it's to heavy and FOV sucks." lol . Most people don't want this big, heavy, bulky thing on their heads. neck starts to hurt, head hurts. This is my opinion but I truly believe its so, IF the industry doesn't get serious about taking VR in a smaller, lighter, greater FOV, etc, etc, direction than VR will remain a niche thing so, for NOW, sure big and bulky and compact and light can coexist but ultimately, if people are serious, big and bulky needs to go to make way for small, compact, light, etc etc.
Better an HP Reverb G2 V2 ? Relase date please?
I wish they made it closer to Valve Index form factor, if it no longer has the "200" degree FOV
It still has a wide FOV and I assume the reason for its larger wider wedge shape is exactly to accommodate the wider FOV.
@@extectic People that used it say it has the same FOV as the Index. I'm not entirely sure why they stuck with the same mold.
Don't agree with Brad that interchangeable lenses are problematic, i've owned them on a Rift DK2, they are no hassle at all.
Brilliant info & vid thank you so much
Very honest opinion and useful info!
I have index controllers so why would I buy 12k that might not use lighthouse tracking. I want great visuals but crap tracking isn't worth it
Great review! I decided to buy 8kx for DCS World and not wait something else from Pimax.
Yes it does seem to be a bit of a work in process. I've had a Pimax 8KX for a year or so now, and I've had no problems with it, once I got it set up. I have a large IPD of 75mm, can't use the Quest headset (it is just too small), same for the HP Reverb G2. I've tried the Vive Pro 2, it doesn't have the IPD range and has a very small focus are. They don't sell the Index in Australia (and I believe it doesn't cater for large IPD's), so Pimax is my only real option for a high end VR headset, that caters for a large IPD (using the software adjustment and with the lenses having a large focus area). I'm hoping the Pimax 12K really works out. After I get a RTX4080.
The 8kx IPD max is documented as 72mm. It works well enough for your 75mm? I'm 73mm and am really worried about buying a Crystal with a supposed PID max of 71mm (or 72mm, depending on the source). Thoughts?
Mate you need at least a 4090 to drive 12k or Crystal, I couldn’t use full potential of a G2 with 13700k+4090 OC+6000MHZ DDR5 RAM in sims, MSFS2020 is still below 60FPS…I’m hoping 4090ti brings complete CUDA core of AD102 to boost the performance further, otherwise we will need to wait for 5090 to truly unleash the power of high end VR headsets.
@@森里螢一-f3c I wish I heard more about what components are needed for 90fps or more with an 8k or better HMD. If you know where I can learn more about it, please reply.
@@annode Just search youtube for your favorite titles+key words such as 4090 or 3090ti and you should get a rough idea about how much horse power will be required to drive a smooth experience. Most of those videos will list details of components about their setup so you can start from there.
@@森里螢一-f3c Not really good advice but thanks anyway. I put a gaming system together over the weekend that meets my needs and wallet potential.
My issues with all the wide FOV Pimax headsets is that I was one of the many that suffered from eye strain with their headsets. The consesus is that is from the canted displays. During one of the MRTV chats with Josh and Sweviver, I asked in the chat many many times about this issue, nobody would respond, kind of like when you were trying to tell them about the ghosting with the Portal unit. Anyhow Kevin Henderson joined the chat and responded to me saying that these newer housing were constructed to make the panels have much less canting. Anyhow Im thinking about making the trek to the Austin TX roadshow on the Dec 10th to demo the Crystal, problem is that Im positive that the Crystal at the roadshow will be totally different than the on that will be released to the public . Hmmmm what to do???
You’re not the only one who suffered from eye strain with Pimax headsets, it’s just requiring so much tweaking to use it comfortably…There’s no way I’m going to buy another headset causing problems to my eyes no matter how good the experience is, eye health is so much more important. Maybe you should wait for the new HTC headset…or new Varjo headset.
i was an original 5k kickstarter backer, turned into a paperweight for me because the eyestrain was so bad... not to mention their buggy software (at least during that time). Anwyay, zero desire to buy anything pimax ever since.
The eye strain issue is because all of our engineers are legitimately near-sighted and so is 75% of the Chinese population. The lenses were biased towards myopic people. We've fixed the issue now and changed our internal testing procedures to ensure this doesn't happen again in the future.
So to answer your question (sorry I didn't during the stream, too much going on), the eye strain issue should no longer be a problem. Out of hundreds of testers during VRdays there were no complaints to my knowledge
@@WhatsupAbroad I was talking to fellow VR enthusiast friend of mine today and we are thinking about coming down to Texas next weekend to see you and the guys. Hopefully will get to meet you and Sweviver and put that Crystal to the test. Thanks Josh for the info!
Should I buy pimax crystal or htc vive pro 2? I have a 4090ti
Do they have a 4090ti yet?
I would get the PiMa Crystal. That headset looks amazing for PCVR- even stand alone.
Im trying to decide between the Crystal or the Valve deckard. (unannounced) I wanna see what valve comes out with first. My index has always been my go to for PCVR.
What are the odds of this one competing with the unreleased valve deckard? Safe to buy this or hold off?
Brad you are not crazy. Don’t let the talking flower pots get to you. Just keep warping the rift and low persistance will float with the smiling faces.
We're all a little crazy. Good rundown Brad.
8:43 Imagine putting your headset on to play some BeatSaber and all you see is giant pubic hairs on ur display
I instantly had so many witty responses to this, but I will refrain... you really left the doors wide open.