How to identify different versions of the Ford C4/C5 Trans.
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- This clip is taken from the beginning of my How To Rebuild the Ford C4 video series. I get many questions from customers and people on Ford forums asking about how to tell the difference in C4 year model, case and pan fill, styles of bellhousings etc. This video should answer most of these questions. If you want purchase info on the complete C4 as well as other videos, just go to my web site; www.badshoeproductions.com
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About 6 years ago I completed a full C4 transmission rebuild using the step by step video that Ken sells online. The video is absolutely sensational with every step fully explained, workarounds are shown and tips are also provided. Excellent camera work with clear explanations. Thoroughly recommend this rebuild video. And yes, the transmission is going as well as when it rolled out the factory
Glad the video was helpful, thanks.....Ken.
BAD SHOES IS THE F'N MAN!!!! - my tires will chirp even, going from 1st to 2nd! - THIS GUY IS A TRUE MASTER OF HIS CRAFT!
Very clear, thorough and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to do this video!
This is a well made video. Looking forward to watch more of your videos. Thank you!
Great video thank you for posting that
I have a C4 with a stage 2 shift kit installed and it's seriously good. I just recently purchased a C6 and will need to start brushing up on that one too now.
absolutely great video I am informing myself on these transmission as I am in the process of finding a suitable C4 or C5 to mount to a 1982 ford 200 that I am swaping out in my 1964 econoline van . tyvm
Thank you for taking the time to make the video, very informational.
spot on, very nice presentation and explanation thank you.
Hi, I wish that I would have found your video sooner. It would have made things so much easier. I have a 1969 Fairlane 500 Sportsroof with a 302 and a C4 transmission in it that I am upgrading a bit. The build tag on the transmission and the servo cover identify it as a early 1969 C4, (the car has a November 7, 1968 build date) but when I ordered a new 2200 stall torque converter for it I found that it has a 26 spline input shaft. After watching your video, I now know that with the push in modulator, the "jiggle pin " vent cap, and a few other identifiers that I must have a 73 or later C4 with some early C4 parts on it. Had to order a new torque converter. Thanks for the informative video. Dave
Very informative, great video. Thank you!
Thank you for this video.
Awesome video, thanks for the info.
Thank you for the Information!
Wow, believe it or not this video help me a lot, thank very much🙏
Really appreciate your time. You are a professional and move swiftly to the main points involved. I'm new with Ford's and very much needed this info. I just picked up an early 64 260 Comet that my Vin number 6 is for a C4 3 speed. This is perhaps a rare transmission. The previous owner thought it was a 2 speed. Mercomatic ? Was that even possible ? I need to pick it up and look the pan and pan hardware over real good to know for sure. ??
Extremely useful. Thanks mate
wow A++++ on your PowerPoint presentationI wish you made a rebuild video just like this
+Alfredo Duenas I have two C4 repair videos. Just go to my web site for info. www.badshoeproductions.com
Great informative video, thank you 👍
Great video, thanks
Thank you Mr. to upload this video, after follow the complete vídeo, i fixed my truck transmission, ( i'm an enthusiastic guy enjoying working byself ) Have a nice day,
very informative👍
thank you
thank you so much ... what should it cost to rebuild a c4 myself and what should be a fair price to pay someone and what stall converter would you suggest ... I have a 75 Ford Maverick mild 302 with an e303 cam, gt40 heads.. i was thinking 2500 stall converter ... thanks a lot for the info
good stuff thanks.
thank your for the info now i may be able to get the right torque converter for my 1976 ford mustang cobra 2
You might need to change some audio setting. The sound is clear when I view it.
Thankyou very good
awesome vid
thx for info
Great video thks
So I got a pre 70 c4 and it had a inline 6 bellhousing and has the starter ring gear on the converter the transmission was rebuilt and took out of a running 66 mustang they v8 swapped it I wanted to take the inline 6 bellhousing off and put a v8 one on will any v8 bellhousing hold the pump in like the old bellhousing before I already found a 24 spline converter for a v8 the pump won't come out if I take the 6 housing off will it ?
GOOD JOB
Can you tell me how i can identify a cruise-o-matic of a 1967 ford f100?
And am I right that there are a small case and a medium case?
Thank you for time and effort I learned a lot. Recently I bought a '72 F-100. Drove it home and it had a minor leak. Could it just be the gasket for the pan?
Maybe, you just have to find it. Dipstick o-ring would be a place to look.
Great info. Very professional. In your opinion which is the better trans? I've been thinking of putting a C4 in a truck with a straight 6, 300 ci.
For tranny swaps, I would stay with 73 or later C4's and large bellhousing version for a 300 6 cyl.
Great part one. Still waiting on a part 2. Like what’s different on the inside. Do C4 use the same clutches, seals, gaskets as the C5? The valve body on older C4 and pickup look different inside vs C5 but the rest looks the same on the inside. Gets confusing rebuilding a C5 being it was only a few years used and info is difficult to find being no one really has info on C5. Thanks for any help you can provide.
All of that info and more is in my early 64-69 vol.1 and 70+ vol.2 C4/C5 full length repair DVD's or downloads.
www.badshoeproductions.com
Great information can you tell me what the difference is on the internal on the c5 can't find any information.
Hi I have a 64 fairlane and I installing 73 mustang trans. But the safety switch is different. How I can make it work. My has 4 wires 73 has 6 what can I do to finish my issue. Thank you.
Ken,
I have a 1970 E-200 302 with the stock C4 (yay) . If I want overdrive , what wise options do I have including manual trans ? Thoughts ?
Thx
If I sent you a picture could you help me identify my trans? It's in a 1984 Mustang but the shift linkage does not seem to match up with the cable.
Fantastic exposure: explanation, due to budget limitations I bought a TCI 511200 C4 to restore my 1965 Ford with 289 engine, now I know more abut this transmission BUT if you can respond let me know HOW you connect the modulator valve to the carburetor or engine, also which one is more convenient?
Just use any port that's intake vacuum not the spark port on the carb.
Thanks for the video. Could you tell me what type fluid goes into the C4. I have an 81 ford F100 Custom with a 4.9 inline 6. Thanks
Type F however, if your overhauling or if it's been overhauled, I use Mercon 5.
79 Fairmont has a c4 in it. Drive slips when it goes in. . Car has less then 40,000 on it. Any ideas ?? Thanks
HI is the bellhousing on the c5 alloy or cast iron ? Here in australia we had the c4 to suit inline 6's but were very heavy bellhousings.
+Darron Mecak All C4 and C5 bellhousings are alloy here in the states.
Great video !! Need some advise please. Rebuilding a 1940 Ford pickup down to frame with new front suspension and 9" rear end with 3.25+- gearing. Want to beable to use either the 8BA flathead or a 302 but not sure on what trans to use, C4 or C6. Need the small bell housing for cab clearance. In your opinion do you think the flathead can handle overdrive from a C6? Want this truck to be a daily driver.
Glad you liked the video. Not sure if anyone make a flatty to C6 adaptor but I know they make a flatty to C4 which is what I would use with a flatty or 302.
Very helpful video - thanks! I have a 1966 Mustang with a 200 and a C4. I to swap the motor to a 289. Will it mate to the existing C4?
Yes with the correct bellhousing and flexplate. Understand that the C4 used for a 6 cvl. will likely have less clutch plates than an 8 cyl. unit making it lighter duty.
Here in australia we have a c10 as well ,the bellhousing is not removeable ,its all 1 piece cast,and we have a c9 as well
+Darron Mecak Ford never made a C9 or C10, these are simply terms that have been invented over time by people that struggle to accept that Ford made more than one version of the C4. If you can remember back far enough, there was a time when only those south-of-the-border used the incorrect terms, now that practice has spread throughout Australia.
Pulled from www.ebay.com/gds/The-difference-between-Ford-C4-C9-and-C10-Automatics-/10000000177636577/g.html
I have a 1962 Mercury Comet with an in line 6 cylinder 170ci. Do you know if there is a bell housing with bolt patern and configuration that will link the 170ci with a later model C4 with the "jiggle pin" vent? thxxxxx
As long as your C4 is a case fed unit, a pre 81, 200 cid high mount starter bellhousing should work.
What is the most sought after? I have a 164 tooth case fill with the 26 spline input. I've read that is the best for upgrading and performance. What is your thoughts?
Normally for racing, use a 73 or later C4, case fill and a C5 might be a bit better. 157 or 164 flexplate is fine depending on what you have. Understand that a 164 case fill flexplate style bellhousing is rare and you might have to get that through the aftermarket.
Great video! Hopefully you can help me, my Ford dealership can only go back to 81. I have a 79 F-250 Supercab 4x4 with a 460 4 speed but want to switch to a automatic. Which Transmission do I need? Help would be very much appreciated.
C6.
Thanks to this video i found my 65 mustang has a C5. It does not have a dipstick and im trying to find the correct dipstick or size. It is a case fill just like in this video. Does anyone know the dipstick length?
I have no idea, there's about a 100 different C4 sticks. Normally the full mark is about where the tubes o-ring is.
Question. I have lost reverse and drive. I still have 1st and 2nd manually. Any tips on what it could be?
Sounds like an overhaul to me.
Band is broken.
I gotta 67 mustang with 289 c4 auto and the 60s c4 trnny went out prior to doing any research a c4 from what looks like the 70s f100 c4 in this video came available and supposedly is built for a decent price however no bellhousing came with the 70s c4 and didnt realize the difference between the two until went to bolt up bellhousing and realized that 60s was on the pump and 70s has that lip however i currently do have the original bellhousing from the 60s c4 attached to the 70s c4 using the pump bolts that line up just as it did on the 60s my questions are is that a problem bolting up to the 70s pump as it was in the 60s or will i need to locate a 70s bellhousing that mounts to the case if so what vehicle would be best to locate the small bellhousing for the 289 in my 67 mustang if ok to use the 60s bellhousing on the 70s c4 i still have the lip for the bigger bellhousing would that be ok to use without the lip getting in the transmission tunnel or would i be better off locating another transmission. For right now the 67 im thinking isnt an original car and more for fun but will be getting the c4 rebuilt for a 66 pony stang with the 289 thats been recently added to the stable. If nothing else i can pull out that one and swap with my 67 just to keep it on the road till i can get the 67 c4 rebuilt if the 66s c4 is in decent shape
The smaller early bellhousing will bolt to the hump back C4, no problem. Understand that all C4's early or late can have the large or small bellhousing. It depends on what it is used in. Your concern should be, will the hump clear the floor pan and will the screw-in dipstick tube clear the exhaust and firewall. If you find the larger bellhousing that fits the new tranny, you will also need a larger flexplate. The larger bellhousing for sure will cause a clearance problem. Understand that the converter with the new tranny is also larger if it had one and won't fit inside the smaller bellhousing or bolt to the 67 Mustang flexplate. If you ask me, you need to repair the original C4 or find a 70+ C4 with the small bellhousing and case mounted dipstick tube. Remember the 66 model is likely a (green dot) dual range unit which is different from the 67 which uses a select shift shifter. Just get the 67 C4 repaired and you will be better off.
Would a early c4 bell housing fit into a later post 70 c4 transmission i need a smaller bell housing to fit into my car but my bellhousing is too large
Early and late bellhousings are swappable however, as shown in the video, normally large housings (164 tooth flexplate) go on pan fed cases that bolt direct to the case. Small housings (157 tooth flex) are normally used on case fed units (housing bolted to pump). This applies to early or late C4's. A small pump bolted bellhousing can be bolted to a pan fed C4 with longer pump bolts however, the large case flange as well as the pan fitted dipstick could still cause a clearance concern in small cars with small floor pan tunnels.
Nice job..My tag is missing and I need to know what era its from..Thanks
ok so I have a unknown yr c4 in a 89 mustang that I bought. it is a pan fill and the threads are badly damaged where the tube goes into the pan. would you happen to know what size tap I need ? the trans was rebuilt at one point before I bought it and the tags are gone. if I cannot fix the threads will any pan fill pan work on it?
+Richard Liebst The hole is so shallow, I doubt the tap would go deep enough. Any C4 pan fill pan will work if it's a shallow type. If it's a deep one, then you need a deep pan. B&M and others make a deep replacement unit.
+BadShoeProductions thank you for the reply I really appreciate it. I'm going to try and clean them up the best I can but if no luck ill hit up a salvage yard.
When would you upgrade to a six gear planetary? Is that 6 gear planetary a drop in upgrade? I'm having a c4 built and my builder seems to be confused on the 6 gear planetary. Any help is greatly appreciated.
The 6 pinion is a drop in and normally comes with the ring gear/hub that has been undercut for a Torrington bearing. Using it is a judgment call but I would say over 600 hp.
Question will the 60's falcon C4/200 inline 6 bellhousing fit a 1986 302 engine?
I'm thinking that it wont.
Nope, not even close.
A 390 in a 70 galaxy would be a c6 ? We have one and its slipping badly. I thought it was a c4, could it be? Thank you. Your ford knowledge is very impressive.
No.
I have an odd one, 70’s 302 with a C4 PEA U1 was put into 65 Mustang with no drive shaft. What type of yoke is needed to fit this shaft with nut?
Someone put a van C4 in the car. The best thing is to put a car C4 in there. If you keep what you have, you will need a van shaft which has the slip yoke made on the shaft.
What size are the cooler line ports on a C-4? a C5? Are they straight thread, or pipe thread?
The C4 is 1/8 NPT and the C5 is 1/4 NPT. The C6 is also 1/4 pipe tread as well.
Hi! Thanks for the video! I have a 1975 ford maverick, how many quarts does a c4 transmission oil requires!?!
It varies a lot depending on converter size. Normally a completely empty unit will need about 8 qt. on the low end (Pintos) and 12 qt. on the high end (trucks).
Thanks a lot!!!@@badshoeproductions
Have a C-4 in a Duece Cuope with the number on the passenger servo that starts with C6AP. No vent tube that I can see. Is this not 66 C-4. Thanks in advance Jack
The casting numbers on the servo doesn't mean much since the same servos were used for many years. If it has a giggle pin vent on the extension housing, you likely have a 70+ C4.
I have a 1977 F100 explorer truck with an inline 6 and the transmission case for the dipstick has become loose at the oil pan and the oil drained. How can I fix this issue? Thank you very much appreciated
If it's just loose, simply tighten the tube nut and add fluid. Sometimes, I have removed the tube and added an o-ring to the seat. Then re-install the tube.
Dear friend,
Sorry my English, because it is not good.
I have a problem with a 1981 Ford Galaxy, it was manufactured in Brazil and uses a C4 Transmission. Many components have been damaged and what is causing me the greatest difficulty is to find out which Forward Clutch Cylinder I need to use. I can't tell the difference between the one that was manufactured until 1980 and the one that was used from 1981 onwards. There is no precise information. I know it could be the U26554A or
U26554B. To know which one I have here, I need to know the real differences.
Can you help me ?
Regards.
I have one of those transmissions and it will not shift on its own unless you manually shift it but I do not have the passenger rod hooked up somebody told me that you had to have it hooked up before it was shiffit can you give me any help on this
Yes, if you are talking about the modulator vacuum hose, it has to be attached.
If have a c4 transmission with a 7 tooth drive gear, 3.73 rear, and 245/40/18 rear tires, what speedo gear do I need?
Maybe a 20 tooth gear but there are variables. Use a GPS like a TomTom or GPS on your smart phone and do a road test to compare to your speedo. One tooth is about 2-3 mph change at 55 mph.
@@badshoeproductions thanks for the info. Update: I put a 20 tooth speedo and was showing 74 at 60 mph. Something else is perplexing. Today, it stopped working altogether, like the first one (23 tooth). The 23 tooth was on the vehicle when I bought the car (a year ago January). I couldn't get an accurate read on it because it bounced so much, but I know it also was reading fast. I'm completely at a loss.
Can u tell me what I need for a torque converter for a 66 felcon c4 24 splien that I changed from a 6cyl to a v8 and a flywheel ty rick
You need a bellhousing that bolts to the pump with a small block bolt pattern (5 bolt or 6 bolt depending on how early a small block you have), a 157 tooth flex plate and an early small bolt pattern converter. You will also need a block plate for a small block that matches the bellhousing.
GOOD AFTERNOON I HAVE A QUESTION, WHAT KIND OF BOX (C4 OR C5) AND HOW MANY SPEEDS DOES THE AUTOMATIC FOX BODY OF 1981 OR 1982 ENGINE 3.3L, 6 CYLINDERS ONLINE, THANKS.
The 81 should be a C4 three speed and the 82 should be a C5 three speed.
This video looks and feels like the 80's to me.
That's fine with me as long as it gets the info to you. Frankly it was filmed about eighteen years ago.
@@badshoeproductions I love the vibe, and find videos like yours easy to digest. Thanks for the video
will a off timing make the fuel pump go slower
No
Nice site you have here. I was just wondering if anyone has ever put a Mustang ll c 4 into a 2wd Ford F 100 _5.o liter. Mine is a 75.
I heard this one has a cheap shaft or something. The bed is coming off and I plan to run it like a bob tail to save weight. Am i nuts?
Can I swap out this cheap shaft I hear about? Any tips? I have an FMX that just failed and plan to rebuild that; if I can, but I need to get the truck mobile in the mean time.
The Mustang 2 C4 has the same shaft as any other C4. The main difference is the Mustang 2 unit has a smaller converter, flexplate and bellhousing shape to fit the tight floor pan of the Mustang. For the swap, the driveshaft length, slip yoke, shifter linkage, crossmember position etc. will have to changed. If you go through all that, I wouldn't go back to the FMX.
do all c4 transmission have the same gasket as well bolt pattern
Yes, but early cases are shaped a little different on the back. Therefore, early pans might not fit well on a later C4. Later pans will likely fit all models. Understand that some pans have dipstick tube holes, some not.
Thx u for will keep that in mind . big thumbs up
Good Info, will those c5 parts fit into a c4 1973-81?
Yes but the C4 case has smaller lube passages.
Yes, if you have a deep pan. The C5 has the fine thread front adjuster and has larger cooler fitting and an extra lube hole for the #9 thrust washer.
Could a c4 bellhoising and torque converter be used on a c5
Yes.
Can a 240 straight v6 bolt up to a c6 transmission?
The 240 cid inline uses a small block bolt pattern so if you have the small block large bellhousing pan fed C4, you're good to go.
the 1960s ford thunderbirds had the C4 up to 1966 with the 390
No they didn't. 390's had cast iron Cruise-O-Matics before 66.
I'm kicking myself because 3 weeks ago, I didn't remember what a C6 look like at pull a part and didn't buy it to rebuild.
I learn how to rebuild a 4L60e and a 350 and now want to learn Fords.
Ok, you understand this isn't a C6 which is completely different from the C4/C5.
BadShoeProductions Duh
***** Just checking.
BadShoeProductions I was just making Ford related conversation. I love your video and will watch more of them.
kinda ironic because I too have a 1965 falcon with a 289 and c4
I actually don't think that the 400 in.³ engine inTorino or Montego wagons (or any other model under that name ) had a C4, I beg to differ with that. Otherwise great information. Ford actually used the C6 behind that motor from 1972-ish onward..
They did. They are rare but there are indeed c4 bellhousings for behind the 400.
Some 400s had bolt pattern for both transmission.
Does rebuild kit work for both?
No, 64-69, 70 or later and C5 kits all use different valve body gaskets and some seals are different as well.
Would you know the length of the C5 dipstick case mount?
Lengths are different for different cars and trucks. They will be the same as C4 tubes. When the stick is inserted in the tube, the full mark should be about where the tubes o-ring is.
@@badshoeproductions thanks!
Does this mean the C5 is not suitable for a histall convertor. I have one here out of a late F100, looks like yours with the deep pan. I thought it has a locker convertor because the input shift spins freely by hand.
You would have to check but I don't think many or any companies make a hi stall converters for the C5. Some of the original C5 converters had a centrifugal lock up clutch in them for better fuel economy. Of course, it's unlocked while on the bench. Most trucks did not receive the clutch option but frankly, the clutch was a total failure. Rebuilt C5 converters have the clutch deleted.
@@badshoeproductions Thanks for responding. Ok, so the deep pan C5 is not a good option for tricking up for street n strip, sound like I should stay with the 78 pan fill C10 I'm using which is always good.
Understand, the pan depth has nothing to do with it. All C5's have a deep pan but many C4's also have a deep pan. The C5 has a deeper bellhousing to allow for the deeper C5 converter. A C4 bellhousing can be installed on a C5 along with a C4 converter, no problem. For HiPo use, normally a C4 style valve body is used in a C5 since more performance mods can be done to the C4 valve body.
@@badshoeproductions thanks mate
can a C5 trans from a 1985 v6 car work with a 1965 289 V8?
Thanks! Jim
Yes, but it is longer because of the deeper bellhousing and converter so the driveshaft will have to be shortened. Most swappers will use a C4 bellhousing and converter to correct that concern.
if u over fill a c4 will it leak out excess n if it does wee would it leak from
It would come out of the vent
wy my C4 just shift 1and 2 gear dont shift 3r gear ...?
Does it shift automatically 1-2 or do you have to manual shift the 1-2?
Is the c4 and c5 pump the same by chance.
The C5 pump doesn't have one of the check valves used in the C4 pump because that valve is inside the C5 valve body. However, a C5 pump can be used in a C4 tranny.
@@badshoeproductions Thanks for the response having a issue with a c5 when it shifts to second gear it hesitates any places that you would check out.
I'm not sure what you mean by hesitation but if it's slipping or dragging out the 1-2 shift, it might be a worn band which indicates overhaul time. If it's just shifting late, a bad or leaking modulator valve could be the cause.
@@badshoeproductions new build it was supposed to be a c4 but I watched your video and it has a fine thread band adjuster so I’m assuming it’s a c5 and the guy put a reman c4 pump in it the 1/2 shift band was in perfect condition is slow not crisp like it was before he built it trying to help a guy out it also has a transbrake and a leaking front pump gasket could that be the cause.
I would be looking at the front servo. For racing an aftermarket racing servo should be used. If you have a pump leak, fix that for sure.
He has a glaring misstatement. I had two different 1968 Ford Galaxie 500 sedans with 390 FE engines. The automatic transmissions on both had detachable bellhousings; one had a C-4, and one had an FMX. Verified by pan gaskets for the transmissions. Also, the engines were clearly identifiable as FE, with the unique intake manifold that goes under the valve covers.
Of course, the FMX could be behind an FE. With an aftermarket bellhousing, a C4 can be used on an FE however, from the factory, C4's were never used on FE engines.
Believe it or not, the C-4 and C-5 have identical pans! Ford shouldn't EVER have done that! There is a tag in the servo cover that identifies transmission year and type. A C-5 has a lock-up converter option. A bad TPS can cause transmission trouble. EGR trouble can cause shift trouble. A vacuum leak at the modulator can cause harsh shifting. A bad VSS can cause trouble.
The C5 had a mechanical lock up therefore the TPS, VSS could cause drivability but no effect on the clutch. All rebuilt C5 converters have the clutch deleted since it really did work that well to begin with.
Yeah, again....your audio takes away from the great info that you are sharing.
Sorry you're having audio concerns. You might need to change some of your audio settings. The sound is clear when I play it.