Here in the US, 4' x 8' Birch plywood can be purchased in 3 different grades (all are 7 ply).. That said, none of those species are available in 13 ply white Birch. I think the US labels the 5 x 5 Birch as "Baltic Birch" to identify is as coming from overseas, versus the common 4 x 8 Birch that's milled here in North America.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop we in the us get real birch ply "as you call it" but not at box stores. All of it is imported as baltic birch plywood and much more expensive than the pine core stuff at places like Lowes. Problem, lately has been the war has sharply curtailed the supply, as most of it comes from Russia, with some from Finland, and as a result has increased the price a lot. Now, as I understand it, China has been buying units from Russia and shipping them to Vietnam where it is then sold to the US.
Good explanation but as a small time amateur who has just been using some ply the difficulty I find is sourcing top quality, especially in smaller board sizes. Even when I have used a supposed good timber supplier and paid a high price the ply was rubbish, showing voids and delaminating. I agree with you that good ply furniture can look fantastic but it is totally dependant on the quality of the material. Keep up the good work.
Thanks John and yes I totally agree with you. When we started out 7 years ago it was super difficult just ordering a few sheets at a time. We had issues where it would arrive and it would be covered in oil/dirt, not great when you're paying upwards of £80 for a sheet of timber! I look at suppliers a bit like mechanics, if you find a good one that you can trust, you hold on to them for dear life lol. It can be a bit of a post code lottery when it comes to suppliers but there are options, google and local joinery shops can be really helpful, especially if you don't mind waiting a week or two. If they are able to source it, most will add it onto their usual order for a small fee, we have done it locally for clients. Something to think about!
Just to confuse it more some people think all Birch ply is Marine ply, which it obviously isn’t! Proper Birch ply is a joy to work with, just wish it wasn’t so expensive. Glad to have found your channel.
Yeah, there is so much misinformation around what is what, that was one of the big reasons I made the video. It is a shame but you get what you pay for I guess, sadly it's going to become even more expensive as the availability is going to go through the floor in the next month or so. Glad you enjoying the content 👍🏼
Here in the US, the way I was told by an older, very experienced woodworker/cabinet maker when he talked to his supplier was (again these are the terms he used in the US, I do not know about other places/regions) : Birch plywood is Birch faced plywood with the internal plies being other softwood species or even some MDF plies; Baltic Birch is typically sourced from Finland and is almost always 5x5, exterior grade glue, and completely made from Birch plies without voids; Russian Birch is either 5x5 or 4x8 with either interior or exterior glues and Birch internal plies but may have small voids or filled knots/defects in the internal plies. The US is so wrapped up in marketing (professional BS-ing) and having an enormous amount of choices that in order to get what you want you need to be very specific, and very picky, so unfortunately we cannot use simple terminology such as 'Birch plywood' to get a product that is made of only Birch plies.
Thats a fair comment, I can only go on what I hear from others but what you have said makes sense. Yeah, I love the US but the marketing side of things is mental, always blows my mind lol. Thanks for watching, apologies in the time it took for me to reply and Happy New Year!
This helped me convince my wife the BB/BB 13 ply Baltic Birch i found for only a $6 premium over the fake Birch veneered softwood ply at Home Depot was worth the expensive for our kitchen cabinets. It was 7.5% more expensive. I figured thats worth it to be able to say our cabinets are 100% hardwood and for the extra strength and ease of finishing edges on the bases. Thanks a bunch.
Loews , Home Depot do not sell Baltic Birch plywood, nor do any "big box" stores. Here in the US what we consider "Baltic Birch" is usually sold in 5' x 5' sheets in 1/2" and 3/4" widths and you will need to go to a lumber yard to get it.The quality is like night and day between it and regular plywood. Birch has I believe 11 plys on the 1/2" and 13 plys on the 3/4". I wish domestic manufacturers could adopt the manufacturing processes they use to make Baltic Birch as it is far and away a better product. Considering what is going on in the world right now, it would be a great time to start!
Thanks for the comment, I totally agree...if someone stateside could get the manufacturing process sorted then there would be a huge market for it worldwide!
where the heck do you get true 4x8 sheets of baltic birch plywood. I cant find it anywhere. They all sell stupid small pieces and my project will not fit and I cant glue two pieces together to get one panel for obvious reasons
Where are you based? An easy search is to try and find external Birch Plywood, that usually (90% of the time) will come in an 8x4 sheet. It wants to be Class 2 or 3 for exterior.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop found out i have to order from a lumberyard that only sells wood. Its expensive but i figured it would be. Found out my dad built some cabinets years ago with some and thats what he had to do. The lowes home depot stuff is not the good stuff like the lumberyard stuff.
Ah there you go! Yeah, I tend to get all of my stuff from Lumberyards now, it takes a bit of getting used to but usually a smile and asking them how their day is going helps move things forward lol.
I was at Lowes the other day and saw this Birch Ply I was wondering why it was so cheap compare to Oak and Maple Ply and finally you explained in this video. Thanks
@@DanTheManIOM Yeah it really does. I need to get the whole thing repainted again but part of me wants to put a bunch of pallet wood/metal sheets or something up to make it look better on the videos. Maybe Ill go full on hipster and plaster the walls with OSB and varnish it lol
Excellent production filled with enlightening content! I think the markets are in a rush to sell 'pirated' products. It's becoming more like the proverbial 'low quality cheap chinese'. From Woodworking decades ago plywood was simply thin sheets of the same thickness and wood type placed and stuck with glue at perpendicular to each other! The greater the number of sheets the thicker and stronger were the sheets. Now, it has been revealed that what we in the West normally use is a plywood of some low quality cheaper sort that is faced with yet thinner veneers of the real wood type we wanted. It's like copper cladded aluminum conductors in the telecommunications industry! They are cheaper and lighter. However, they lack the strength and current capacity of true copper conductors! Both would look the same to the naked eye but there cores are different! Aluminum core: lighter material, lower cost, weaker, and cheaper quality. Copper core: heavier and stronger 💪, higher cost and best quality!
Apologies as Ive been ridiculously busy at work and UA-cam had to take a back seat. Yeah I totally agree. There seems to be more and more dodgy Plywood being sold at the moment and this is only exasperated with the availability of quality Birch at the moment. Sadly I dont think it will get better any time soon! Thanks for the comment and glad you enjoyed the content!
I recently did a set of cornhole boards, & bought some 1/2" thick, 2x4 panel sheets of birch ply, at Home Depot, & when I tried to take my router to the center hole, to add a roundover to it, it frayed like crazy and was extremely difficult to sand down. After cutting the hole out with my 6" hole saw, I noticed the amount of gap between sheets was insane. Is this typical ? Is there a difference in "Baltic Birch" and/or Birch Ply ?
It all depends to be honest and it seems like there is a small play on words, especially in the US. You wanted Birch Ply with a Birch core, what you probably got was Birch faced with a eucalyptus, poplar or pine core. If it frays when being routed that normally says to me that its Poplar core. Did the board have a stamp on it anywhere? It usually says on the stamp the specifics. The easiest way to tell is to look at the thickness of the core veneers compared to those in the video. Happy to have a look if you have a link/barcode and Ill check on the HD website.
Thanks NW, that's very much appreciated. I've got some video ideas for the next few months now the kids are back at school so keep those eyes peeled 👍 Have a great day.
I bought a Birch nightstand from a top American store. It's made in Vietnam & I can't tolerate the odor plus it makes me physically ill. They are taking it back but can I test it to see what it's treated with.
Hi, apologies as I didn't see your message. I would guess its treated with some sort of Varnish, the smell will dissipate after a while but I know I have seen some stuff in stores and its stunk. Not sure how you could test it though 🤷♂️
Loving your channel, really like your style! I also haven’t found a good local source for birch ply (East Sussex). You can order it online but so expensive. And you sure are right about the thinness of the top layer on the cheap stuff. Amazed they can even peal it that thin! Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks for the comment! Hopefully going to be making 3 or 4 videos a month so make sure to keep those eyes peeled! Yeah it can be really hard to find a good supplier, local joiners are always worth a shot. I find good suppliers are like good mechanics, when you find one you can trust you look after them!
I just don't get it, everyone online has all this baltic birch plywood and when I ask the local hardwood places who used to get it, they tell me it's not available since Russia invaded Ukraine (makes sense) so where do yall get it from? I'm baffled I have been to and called dozens of places all saying the same thing Please help
Yeah, we had a couple of clients that were told by other people they could get hold of it, they went to them and then it turned out they couldn't do it. The only thing I can think is that its something to do with not wanting to lose search rankings on Google. There seems to be some about but the prices are through the roof. What exactly is it that you're after?
Before knowing about external vs internal grade birch ply glue, I used internal to build outdoor kitchen cabinets. They do have a roof over them, but get wet occasionally. So far no issues. Have you noticed a performance difference between the two types?
There can be however I wouldnt stress about it too much. Ive used offcuts outside as Shingles for a rabbit and chicken house and not had any issues once I treated them. Do you have issues with high humidity in the warmer months? Have you treat/added a top coat to the cabinets?
@@TheNaturalWorkshop I’m in Canada, so it’s usually winter and spring that are wet and humid. I did put a water based wood stain for decks on them, that’s probably helped the most.
Yeah then you should be golden to be honest. We have the good old British drizzle over here lol and like I said, we havnt had an issue. I wouldn't worry about it and just keep an eye out but you should be golden. I used interior grade Plywood for the deck for my Inflatable Hot tub as I had literally pallets of off cuts, covered it in 2 coats of water based latex barn paint and its not delaminated yet and you can imagine the amount of abuse the deck gets from water and Chlorine. Its been down for a couple of years now 👍🏼
@@TheNaturalWorkshop EU based, Finland. I’m looking for natural finish that would keep birch as “blond” as possible. Kitchen cabinets inside surfaces is what I’m pondering. Doors should be stained lightly to petrolish colour and maybe lacquered.
I did a video which explains what I think you are after, Ill drop a link below. Utimately, if you want to keep the Birch as "blonde" or white as possible then you need to use a water based finish or an oil based with white flecks. Any usual oil based finish will yellow the wood.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop Would blockboard give a better finish as well as being more stable??? The difficulty I foresee is in getting a clean finish on the exposed edge????
Hi, more or less. Exterior grade I would class as a Plywood with a "Class 2 Glue Bond" which means that it can be used outside but needs sealing. Waterproof is really along the lines of Marine Grade Plywood. Hope that helps 👍🏼
You're not wrong, Big Box plywood's are garbage especially when you are dealing with Birch, Oak etc. At least in my area if you want quality Birch plywood you buy the Baltic Birch from a hardwood supplier. Mine is San Marcos Hardwoods, absolutely superior ply.
Hello... didn't catch you name. This was good - new subscriber here! I am a hobby person weekend woody or whatever us non pro's are called. My neighbour is trusting me with quite a big ply cupboard job. I was hoping to use Plexwood... but their sheets, like everything else have tripled in price and are now £148... per square meter!!! Such a shame as it is lovely stuff. So... I might still be using some plexwood but only as a detail element. So 2 questions... I do need a really good face on one side - so is that AA? Which I can't find - all my London merchants only seem to have BB/BB. But I don't any face patches. Secondly - if i want to keep that 'almost white' finish of birch which finish would you recco? And finally which Treatex? I'm intrigued as I've always gone Osmo? Thanks for the video and the tongue twisters! lol.
Hello, thanks for a great video. I’m wondering if you have ever attempted to remove the top or top two layers of veneer after damaging the face veneer. I have a 90s dining table that I over sanded when refinishing and now the top layer is paper thin in places and not looking it’s best. Google isn’t giving me the answer and you seem like the man who would know! Cheers
Hey thanks! It depends a lot on how you want to repair it, and whats underneath. It might be just as well to ober board it with something. You can Google "Remove veneer with heat gun" or Iron and see what comes up 👍🏼
Hi, thanks for the reply. The top is a sheet of Baltic birch ply - probably BB grade. Sticking another veneer over the top could be an option but I wondered what going down a layer would look like and whether the Internal plys would be of a far inferior level aesthetically. I had imagined using a plane / sander combo to get down through the top layer or some sort of router with a jig. Cheers
I don't think they sell one but I've just made them in the past. Ive got a video on making one, feel free to take a look and ask any questions you may have 👍🏼
Just out of interest, what should you expect to pay for a sheet of 8 x 4 plywood for furniture making. (In UK) Also where should I start looking for a decent quality of plywood in UK.
Where are you located? For 18mm B/BB Birch it can vary between £60 and £120 but alot of that is location dependant. I think if you can find it for around £80 then its a good price. The 5x5 sheets are slightly less, might be able to pick them up for £60. Google is your friend, especially if you can find someone relatively locally who makes Birch Ply furniture as they might sell you a sheet. Worst case, contact your local builder/timber merchant and see what they can find. If its for furniture etc then you really want to try and get hold of B/BB grade. One other option is to design your furniture etc and go to a local joinery shop to see if they will order, cut and supply the cut sizes for you. That works for some and we do occasionally do this locally when clients come to us and ask.
@@derekrobertson1548 I just had a quick google and there are a couple of joinery firms locally to you. I would drop them a quick email and see if they could help. I bet they might, or at the least know somewhere locally where you could source it.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop thanks for that, never thought of contacting a joinery firm. Have asked at a local timber merchant and quoted £160 plus vat per sheet, I thought that was excessive and and one just said they don't do it. Will contact a local joinery place amd see what they say. I am just in the middle of building myself a small workshop as got loads of projects I would like to do for the house. I got myself a planer thicknesser from lumberjack pt305 and it has so many faults that it had to be sent back for a refund so back to researching other makes. Oh so much fun.🤨
Wow! Ill sell it to you for £200 a sheet lol 😲Definitely check out the local joiners, you can but ask, you never know! Sorry to hear you had issues with it. I think something must have slipped past QC in the factory for a shipment as some have had a great unit and others less so which is really disappointing. Everything going on in the world hasn't helped to get the issue dealt with either I don't think. I went back and checked mine, turns out I had the same issue with the belt you guys were having, it was slipping and the feed rollers were not pulling the timber through. I'm going to add a post up in the comments of the original video and then get a new video out this week on the fix. I had to change the belt out, wax everything up and its worked. I have a feeling that the belt is stretching and the rollers dont have enough bite. Im waiting to hear back from Lumberjack. Im going to run a job through tomorrow to see if its fixed it properly or I was just lucky. Have you looked at the Holsman in Machine mart or the Metabo unit? I had been thinking of the Metabo before I looked at the Lumberjack.
No problem at all, feel free to drop us a new comment (I might miss it if you do it on this one) if you do have any questions and Ill do my best to help you out! Thanks for the sub 👍🏼
I buy mine direct from the importers up in Halifax. We do offer a cutting and postage service if you need it? Otherwise the best thing to do is search for the following.. 1525 x 1525mm Birch Plywood B/BB OR BB/BB - The B/BB is the grade so change that as you need it. The stains/Dyes I usually use are made by a company called Fiddes, here is the link. fiddes.co.uk/shop/wood-finishes/wood-dyes/light-fast-water-stains/ Need anything else?
Looking at American UA-cam channels, I think they are using proper birch ply... and using it to make workshop jigs... I run calculations in my head when I see that happen: "That's 50 quid of birch ply!"
Thanks for a really informative video, thought I knew about birch but learned a few things I didn't know from watching you! Regarding staining, I've always had mixed results, often getting that blotchy finish, no matter how well you sand beforehand. I'm about to stain a wardrobe build, using Fiddes hard wax oil tint, any tips you may have to avoid the blotchiness would be appreciated :)
Hey, thanks for the comment, glad you enjoyed the video! To be honest, the best thing I have found with Birch is to use a water based stain. Fiddes do some excellent WB stains, but I have always found that Oil stains really don't like to spread. Other than that, which isn't a lot of help I know lol, would be to make sure you don't go over 120 or 180 grit at the highest when doing your pre stain sand. I find if you go too high a grit it can cause issues with the stain soaking into the timber face.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop Thanks for that, I'll lookk into water based stains. Also, that's really interesting concerning the sanding. I've always gone to 240 grit, thinking the smoother the better. Time to re-evaluate. Thanks again!
@@TheNaturalWorkshop There is a guy her on UA-cam named Mark Spagnola ( The Wood Whisperer) and he did a video where he tested different methods to get pine and other soft woods to take stain better you might want to check out. He got better results by using a sanding sealer first to keep the wood from absorbing the stain at varying rates. Take a look-
Sometimes, on full Birch Ply it should have Birch cores. The poplar stuff is just the birch faced which is useless. Poplar ply has its uses, dont get me wrong, we use it a lot, but its not a touch on birch.
😂 I know it needs to be finished lol. The Mrs does the painting, shes barely 5ft and isnt a fan of ladders so thats why its not been finished lol l. Ill keep you in mind 😉😂
Lowe's or Home Depot have NEVER sold what we refer to as "Baltic Birch". You don't know what you're rambling about. Even your photos "explaining" it don't make any sense. When people talk about "Baltic Birch", we mean ply that has all of its layers being the same kind of wood with a high ply count and ZERO voids. 5:24 is NOT it. 5:32 is. The layers that are light on one side should be dark on the other, and vice versa. Maybe you just doctored the photo, but either way, you are not in a position to "educate" people. The "dark edge" never turns the corner in the real material. It's pretty much universally agreed upon across the entire country that what you're going to get from the "big box stores" is going to be cheap crap or construction grade material at best. Framing lumber, sheathing walls, drywall, backerboards, etc., they're your first stop. There are roughly 10 products in the entire store catering to first-time "woodworkers" that are twice the price and half the quality of anything at a real lumber yard. No one goes there for woodworking material. Trying to "educate" people based on what you've "heard on Instagram and what not" makes you sound like an idiot. You're trying really hard to explain what everyone already knows without really knowing anything yourself.
🤣 Eric, are you having a bad day? Do you need a hug? The "heard something on Instagram and what not" is actually me running a business which buys Birch Plywood. Ive been doing this for approximately 10 years. We buy it in from the importer, who buys it directly from the factory, cut it down and sell it on. I know exactly "what is what" because we have purchased 1000s and 1000s of sheets, at one point I was buying by the pallet load on a weekly basis. We specialise in sheet goods. 🤦♂️ As for the glue line, there are two types. Generally, the internal grade Birch Plywood has no visible glue line and is sized at a 5x5' sheets. I know this because we run a laser machine and we can only cut internal grade glue on the laser...so we use the 5 x 5 sheets OR it's the offcuts without the visible glue line. The external grade plywood has a visible glue line and comes in 8 x 4 sheets. Again, we know this because we get asked to specify Plywood for specific situations and of course again, we can't use external grade glue in the laser machine as it won't cut. The items I detailed in the video use information that I've found on the Lowes/Home depot website, from family and friends in the US, forums, UA-cam and Facebook. Great places to have a conversation with others 👌🏼 Here is a Chinese website detailing the different types of glue. www.yalongwood.com/plywood-glue-types/ You have a nice day lol 👍🏼
Oh and Birch plywood is made from Birch, all the layers have to be Birch otherwise it will just be Birch faced. This will then have a Poplar or Eucalyptus core...usually. Its nothing to do with it being "the same kind of wood with a high ply count and zero voids" Those are the things that makeup Birch Plywood.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop It's true, I was a bit grumpy when I wrote that, so apologies for my tone. By "heard on Instagram", I was referring to 7:24 where you explicitly said that you heard it on Instagram in the "Where does all this confusion come from then?" segment. But I've never encountered any confusion about it; Lowe's wouldn't have Baltic Birch -- nor ANY good plywood -- and everyone with a Lowe's nearby knows that. That's not the stuff people are talking about when calling it "Baltic Birch". The whole thing just comes across as "those stupid Americans think they're buying 'Baltic Birch' -- or whatever they call it -- but Lowe's doesn't even have that!" I'm not sure what you're arguing in this follow-up comment, though. We're saying the same thing. All of the layers are birch, so they are "all the same kind of wood". And it has a higher ply count -- 13 in the 3/4" (18mm) -- than the junk with the poplar core which generally has 5-9. And they patch holes in the inner layers as well as the faces, resulting in zero voids. The term "Baltic Birch" exists solely to distinguish it from birch faced (often called "paint grade"). If I had to guess, the actual choice of phrase is likely an effort to sweep the whole association with Russia under the rug.
Great info but terrible how you ended the video. I think you cheapened it by holding back on the filler, dude. You came off egotistical and I’m sure that was not your intention. Hope I’m wrong.
Apologies for not replying dude, Ive been hung up with Covid the last few weeks which kicked my butt! Ah man, totally not what I meant to do, just can't give out all those secrets 😉 as like I said, it took me a LONG time to find a good one. That being said, the info is all there for you to find it, make sure to look for a "Natural" colouring which is going to be white to cream and you should be golden 👍🏼 Have a great day dude!
riddle me this... with a roll of my eyes, The secret wood filler, well it's quite the prize. "Natural finish," that's all you get, White to cream, but don't you fret. I won't spill the beans, took too long to find, Stainable, sandable? Leave your guesses behind. A woodworker's riddle, locked without key, find it yourself, you won't get it from me! not much point of mentioning it in if you're not going to share the info, seems like a weird thing to hold back on, its hardly the nuclear codes... p.s.it's probably just Ronseal.
Yeah, that seems to be the big issue, the way timber is being listed in the US is a bit cheeky, to say the least. To be honest, Birch is going to be really hard to get hold of, at least the proper Birch will be as the majority of materials come from Russia so its all classed as conflict timber now. Poplar isn't a bad alternative, just not as strong and dense as birch.
Here in the US, 4' x 8' Birch plywood can be purchased in 3 different grades (all are 7 ply).. That said, none of those species are available in 13 ply white Birch. I think the US labels the 5 x 5 Birch as "Baltic Birch" to identify is as coming from overseas, versus the common 4 x 8 Birch that's milled here in North America.
Thanks for the info! The 7 layer are mostly softwood cores and the 13 layer are the solid birch, isnt that right?
@@TheNaturalWorkshop we in the us get real birch ply "as you call it" but not at box stores. All of it is imported as baltic birch plywood and much more expensive than the pine core stuff at places like Lowes. Problem, lately has been the war has sharply curtailed the supply, as most of it comes from Russia, with some from Finland, and as a result has increased the price a lot. Now, as I understand it, China has been buying units from Russia and shipping them to Vietnam where it is then sold to the US.
Just got 11 ply at imeca here in Orlando 80 bucks a sheet for .75
Good explanation but as a small time amateur who has just been using some ply the difficulty I find is sourcing top quality, especially in smaller board sizes. Even when I have used a supposed good timber supplier and paid a high price the ply was rubbish, showing voids and delaminating. I agree with you that good ply furniture can look fantastic but it is totally dependant on the quality of the material.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks John and yes I totally agree with you. When we started out 7 years ago it was super difficult just ordering a few sheets at a time. We had issues where it would arrive and it would be covered in oil/dirt, not great when you're paying upwards of £80 for a sheet of timber! I look at suppliers a bit like mechanics, if you find a good one that you can trust, you hold on to them for dear life lol. It can be a bit of a post code lottery when it comes to suppliers but there are options, google and local joinery shops can be really helpful, especially if you don't mind waiting a week or two. If they are able to source it, most will add it onto their usual order for a small fee, we have done it locally for clients. Something to think about!
Just to confuse it more some people think all Birch ply is Marine ply, which it obviously isn’t! Proper Birch ply is a joy to work with, just wish it wasn’t so expensive. Glad to have found your channel.
Yeah, there is so much misinformation around what is what, that was one of the big reasons I made the video. It is a shame but you get what you pay for I guess, sadly it's going to become even more expensive as the availability is going to go through the floor in the next month or so. Glad you enjoying the content 👍🏼
Here in the US, the way I was told by an older, very experienced woodworker/cabinet maker when he talked to his supplier was (again these are the terms he used in the US, I do not know about other places/regions) : Birch plywood is Birch faced plywood with the internal plies being other softwood species or even some MDF plies; Baltic Birch is typically sourced from Finland and is almost always 5x5, exterior grade glue, and completely made from Birch plies without voids; Russian Birch is either 5x5 or 4x8 with either interior or exterior glues and Birch internal plies but may have small voids or filled knots/defects in the internal plies. The US is so wrapped up in marketing (professional BS-ing) and having an enormous amount of choices that in order to get what you want you need to be very specific, and very picky, so unfortunately we cannot use simple terminology such as 'Birch plywood' to get a product that is made of only Birch plies.
Thats a fair comment, I can only go on what I hear from others but what you have said makes sense. Yeah, I love the US but the marketing side of things is mental, always blows my mind lol.
Thanks for watching, apologies in the time it took for me to reply and Happy New Year!
@@TheNaturalWorkshop No worries, hope you and yours had a relaxing holiday with good food and good company. Great video and I look forward to more!
Thank you!
This helped me convince my wife the BB/BB 13 ply Baltic Birch i found for only a $6 premium over the fake Birch veneered softwood ply at Home Depot was worth the expensive for our kitchen cabinets. It was 7.5% more expensive. I figured thats worth it to be able to say our cabinets are 100% hardwood and for the extra strength and ease of finishing edges on the bases. Thanks a bunch.
Loews , Home Depot do not sell Baltic Birch plywood, nor do any "big box" stores. Here in the US what we consider "Baltic Birch" is usually sold in 5' x 5' sheets in 1/2" and 3/4" widths and you will need to go to a lumber yard to get it.The quality is like night and day between it and regular plywood. Birch has I believe 11 plys on the 1/2" and 13 plys on the 3/4". I wish domestic manufacturers could adopt the manufacturing processes they use to make Baltic Birch as it is far and away a better product. Considering what is going on in the world right now, it would be a great time to start!
Thanks for the comment, I totally agree...if someone stateside could get the manufacturing process sorted then there would be a huge market for it worldwide!
where the heck do you get true 4x8 sheets of baltic birch plywood. I cant find it anywhere. They all sell stupid small pieces and my project will not fit and I cant glue two pieces together to get one panel for obvious reasons
Where are you based? An easy search is to try and find external Birch Plywood, that usually (90% of the time) will come in an 8x4 sheet. It wants to be Class 2 or 3 for exterior.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop found out i have to order from a lumberyard that only sells wood. Its expensive but i figured it would be. Found out my dad built some cabinets years ago with some and thats what he had to do.
The lowes home depot stuff is not the good stuff like the lumberyard stuff.
Ah there you go! Yeah, I tend to get all of my stuff from Lumberyards now, it takes a bit of getting used to but usually a smile and asking them how their day is going helps move things forward lol.
I was at Lowes the other day and saw this Birch Ply I was wondering why it was so cheap compare to Oak and Maple Ply and finally you explained in this video. Thanks
No problems at all, glad I could help 👍🏼
that guy who painted the wall also came to my house ! LOL....ok,back to plywood
🤣 you sure? Its a pretty amazing job lol
@@TheNaturalWorkshop You know i had my best guy on the job and TBH, it did make it better, the garage was so dark, 🙂
@@DanTheManIOM Yeah it really does. I need to get the whole thing repainted again but part of me wants to put a bunch of pallet wood/metal sheets or something up to make it look better on the videos. Maybe Ill go full on hipster and plaster the walls with OSB and varnish it lol
I did think that the 8x4 darker wasn't a different glue but the ply's had bark on them, however your comment about it kind of makes sense
Yeah to be honest I was unaware until I spoke to the supplier about it. The more you know!
Thanks for a very entertaining and enlightening episode. Definitely store this one away for future ref.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the feedback!
Excellent production filled with enlightening content!
I think the markets are in a rush to sell 'pirated' products. It's becoming more like the proverbial 'low quality cheap chinese'.
From Woodworking decades ago plywood was simply thin sheets of the same thickness and wood type placed and stuck with glue at perpendicular to each other!
The greater the number of sheets the thicker and stronger were the sheets.
Now, it has been revealed that what we in the West normally use is a plywood of some low quality cheaper sort that is faced with yet thinner veneers of the real wood type we wanted.
It's like copper cladded aluminum conductors in the telecommunications industry!
They are cheaper and lighter.
However, they lack the strength and current capacity of true copper conductors!
Both would look the same to the naked eye but there cores are different!
Aluminum core: lighter material, lower cost, weaker, and cheaper quality.
Copper core: heavier and stronger 💪, higher cost and best quality!
Apologies as Ive been ridiculously busy at work and UA-cam had to take a back seat. Yeah I totally agree. There seems to be more and more dodgy Plywood being sold at the moment and this is only exasperated with the availability of quality Birch at the moment. Sadly I dont think it will get better any time soon! Thanks for the comment and glad you enjoyed the content!
I recently did a set of cornhole boards, & bought some 1/2" thick, 2x4 panel sheets of birch ply, at Home Depot, & when I tried to take my router to the center hole, to add a roundover to it, it frayed like crazy and was extremely difficult to sand down. After cutting the hole out with my 6" hole saw, I noticed the amount of gap between sheets was insane. Is this typical ?
Is there a difference in "Baltic Birch" and/or Birch Ply ?
It all depends to be honest and it seems like there is a small play on words, especially in the US. You wanted Birch Ply with a Birch core, what you probably got was Birch faced with a eucalyptus, poplar or pine core. If it frays when being routed that normally says to me that its Poplar core. Did the board have a stamp on it anywhere? It usually says on the stamp the specifics. The easiest way to tell is to look at the thickness of the core veneers compared to those in the video.
Happy to have a look if you have a link/barcode and Ill check on the HD website.
Really like your videos and how you approach it. Keep going.
Thanks NW, that's very much appreciated. I've got some video ideas for the next few months now the kids are back at school so keep those eyes peeled 👍 Have a great day.
Everything you need to know - thanks for sharing.
No problem at all, glad I could help 👍🏼
I bought a Birch nightstand from a top American store. It's made in Vietnam & I can't tolerate the odor plus it makes me physically ill. They are taking it back but can I test it to see what it's treated with.
Hi, apologies as I didn't see your message. I would guess its treated with some sort of Varnish, the smell will dissipate after a while but I know I have seen some stuff in stores and its stunk. Not sure how you could test it though 🤷♂️
Great video, do you have a video on proper stain and clear coats regarding Birch wood Grades?
Apologies Dario, things have been manic these last week or so! I dont, is that something you think people would watch?
Loving your channel, really like your style! I also haven’t found a good local source for birch ply (East Sussex). You can order it online but so expensive. And you sure are right about the thinness of the top layer on the cheap stuff. Amazed they can even peal it that thin! Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks for the comment! Hopefully going to be making 3 or 4 videos a month so make sure to keep those eyes peeled! Yeah it can be really hard to find a good supplier, local joiners are always worth a shot. I find good suppliers are like good mechanics, when you find one you can trust you look after them!
Did you try Mid Sussex timber at Forest Row. They used to keep some birch ply when I lived at Hailsham
Hi , great info , thank you .😉👍
No problem 👍
Great information! Thanks for sharing!
No worries, thanks for the comment and have an awesome day!
this was really helpful, thank you mate
No problem 👍
I just don't get it, everyone online has all this baltic birch plywood and when I ask the local hardwood places who used to get it, they tell me it's not available since Russia invaded Ukraine (makes sense) so where do yall get it from?
I'm baffled I have been to and called dozens of places all saying the same thing
Please help
Yeah, we had a couple of clients that were told by other people they could get hold of it, they went to them and then it turned out they couldn't do it.
The only thing I can think is that its something to do with not wanting to lose search rankings on Google.
There seems to be some about but the prices are through the roof. What exactly is it that you're after?
Before knowing about external vs internal grade birch ply glue, I used internal to build outdoor kitchen cabinets. They do have a roof over them, but get wet occasionally.
So far no issues. Have you noticed a performance difference between the two types?
There can be however I wouldnt stress about it too much. Ive used offcuts outside as Shingles for a rabbit and chicken house and not had any issues once I treated them. Do you have issues with high humidity in the warmer months? Have you treat/added a top coat to the cabinets?
@@TheNaturalWorkshop I’m in Canada, so it’s usually winter and spring that are wet and humid.
I did put a water based wood stain for decks on them, that’s probably helped the most.
Yeah then you should be golden to be honest. We have the good old British drizzle over here lol and like I said, we havnt had an issue. I wouldn't worry about it and just keep an eye out but you should be golden. I used interior grade Plywood for the deck for my Inflatable Hot tub as I had literally pallets of off cuts, covered it in 2 coats of water based latex barn paint and its not delaminated yet and you can imagine the amount of abuse the deck gets from water and Chlorine. Its been down for a couple of years now 👍🏼
Thanks for informative video. Could you type down some of these finishing materials or brands you recommended for birch plywood?
Are you UK or US based? What sort of finish are you after? What sort of look are you going for?
@@TheNaturalWorkshop EU based, Finland. I’m looking for natural finish that would keep birch as “blond” as possible. Kitchen cabinets inside surfaces is what I’m pondering. Doors should be stained lightly to petrolish colour and maybe lacquered.
I did a video which explains what I think you are after, Ill drop a link below. Utimately, if you want to keep the Birch as "blonde" or white as possible then you need to use a water based finish or an oil based with white flecks. Any usual oil based finish will yellow the wood.
Would you recommend using blockboard for kitchen cabinet carcasses?
You could do, plywood would be cheaper though wouldn't it?
@@TheNaturalWorkshop Would blockboard give a better finish as well as being more stable??? The difficulty I foresee is in getting a clean finish on the exposed edge????
Apologies Glen, I didnt see the reply! How did you get on in the end?
Solid explanations🙏🏽
Thank you!
By external grade, do you mean that the glue is "waterproof" for exterior use??
Hi, more or less. Exterior grade I would class as a Plywood with a "Class 2 Glue Bond" which means that it can be used outside but needs sealing. Waterproof is really along the lines of Marine Grade Plywood. Hope that helps 👍🏼
Thank you!
No worries, have a great evening! 👍🏼
You're not wrong, Big Box plywood's are garbage especially when you are dealing with Birch, Oak etc. At least in my area if you want quality Birch plywood you buy the Baltic Birch from a hardwood supplier. Mine is San Marcos Hardwoods, absolutely superior ply.
100% If you want quality you have to pay for itA
Hello... didn't catch you name. This was good - new subscriber here! I am a hobby person weekend woody or whatever us non pro's are called. My neighbour is trusting me with quite a big ply cupboard job. I was hoping to use Plexwood... but their sheets, like everything else have tripled in price and are now £148... per square meter!!! Such a shame as it is lovely stuff. So... I might still be using some plexwood but only as a detail element. So 2 questions... I do need a really good face on one side - so is that AA? Which I can't find - all my London merchants only seem to have BB/BB. But I don't any face patches. Secondly - if i want to keep that 'almost white' finish of birch which finish would you recco? And finally which Treatex? I'm intrigued as I've always gone Osmo? Thanks for the video and the tongue twisters! lol.
Apologies David for the late reply, I've been hung up sick with COVID the last few weeks which kicked my butt!! How did you get on in the end?
Hello, thanks for a great video. I’m wondering if you have ever attempted to remove the top or top two layers of veneer after damaging the face veneer. I have a 90s dining table that I over sanded when refinishing and now the top layer is paper thin in places and not looking it’s best.
Google isn’t giving me the answer and you seem like the man who would know!
Cheers
Hey thanks! It depends a lot on how you want to repair it, and whats underneath. It might be just as well to ober board it with something. You can Google "Remove veneer with heat gun" or Iron and see what comes up 👍🏼
Hi, thanks for the reply. The top is a sheet of Baltic birch ply - probably BB grade.
Sticking another veneer over the top could be an option but I wondered what going down a layer would look like and whether the Internal plys would be of a far inferior level aesthetically.
I had imagined using a plane / sander combo to get down through the top layer or some sort of router with a jig.
Cheers
Apologies mate, work went mad for a while! How did you get on in the end?
Cool video. Just fitting out a workshop and have bought the Axminster table saw you have. Question can you get a zero clearance plate for it.
I don't think they sell one but I've just made them in the past. Ive got a video on making one, feel free to take a look and ask any questions you may have 👍🏼
Just out of interest, what should you expect to pay for a sheet of 8 x 4 plywood for furniture making. (In UK) Also where should I start looking for a decent quality of plywood in UK.
Where are you located? For 18mm B/BB Birch it can vary between £60 and £120 but alot of that is location dependant. I think if you can find it for around £80 then its a good price. The 5x5 sheets are slightly less, might be able to pick them up for £60. Google is your friend, especially if you can find someone relatively locally who makes Birch Ply furniture as they might sell you a sheet. Worst case, contact your local builder/timber merchant and see what they can find. If its for furniture etc then you really want to try and get hold of B/BB grade.
One other option is to design your furniture etc and go to a local joinery shop to see if they will order, cut and supply the cut sizes for you. That works for some and we do occasionally do this locally when clients come to us and ask.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop thank for the prompt response and info. I am located in coatbridge halfway between Glasgow and Edinburgh.
@@derekrobertson1548 I just had a quick google and there are a couple of joinery firms locally to you. I would drop them a quick email and see if they could help. I bet they might, or at the least know somewhere locally where you could source it.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop thanks for that, never thought of contacting a joinery firm. Have asked at a local timber merchant and quoted £160 plus vat per sheet, I thought that was excessive and and one just said they don't do it. Will contact a local joinery place amd see what they say. I am just in the middle of building myself a small workshop as got loads of projects I would like to do for the house. I got myself a planer thicknesser from lumberjack pt305 and it has so many faults that it had to be sent back for a refund so back to researching other makes. Oh so much fun.🤨
Wow! Ill sell it to you for £200 a sheet lol 😲Definitely check out the local joiners, you can but ask, you never know!
Sorry to hear you had issues with it. I think something must have slipped past QC in the factory for a shipment as some have had a great unit and others less so which is really disappointing. Everything going on in the world hasn't helped to get the issue dealt with either I don't think. I went back and checked mine, turns out I had the same issue with the belt you guys were having, it was slipping and the feed rollers were not pulling the timber through. I'm going to add a post up in the comments of the original video and then get a new video out this week on the fix. I had to change the belt out, wax everything up and its worked. I have a feeling that the belt is stretching and the rollers dont have enough bite. Im waiting to hear back from Lumberjack. Im going to run a job through tomorrow to see if its fixed it properly or I was just lucky.
Have you looked at the Holsman in Machine mart or the Metabo unit? I had been thinking of the Metabo before I looked at the Lumberjack.
Really helpful.
No worries!
I think mb explained that on one of his videos? The birch at home depot and lowes is birch veneer? Over pinewood?
Yeah its usually Poplar or Eucalyptus core with a Birch face.
Great info thankyou. You answered a lot of our questions in one vlog 👍 Sub'd 👍
No problem at all, feel free to drop us a new comment (I might miss it if you do it on this one) if you do have any questions and Ill do my best to help you out! Thanks for the sub 👍🏼
could you put links in please for items you mention. Id est stains. And where do you get your 5X5 sheets from please?
I buy mine direct from the importers up in Halifax. We do offer a cutting and postage service if you need it? Otherwise the best thing to do is search for the following..
1525 x 1525mm Birch Plywood B/BB OR BB/BB - The B/BB is the grade so change that as you need it.
The stains/Dyes I usually use are made by a company called Fiddes, here is the link.
fiddes.co.uk/shop/wood-finishes/wood-dyes/light-fast-water-stains/
Need anything else?
Learned some new stuff! Cheers!
Glad I could help!
Really helpful. Thanks!
Glad I could be of help Tom. If you ever have a video idea just drop it in the comments!
Looking at American UA-cam channels, I think they are using proper birch ply... and using it to make workshop jigs... I run calculations in my head when I see that happen: "That's 50 quid of birch ply!"
🤣 I know, the joke is I mostly use MDF when I can as I personally think its better than Birch for jigs etc lol...a heck of a lot cheaper as well!
Thanks for a really informative video, thought I knew about birch but learned a few things I didn't know from watching you! Regarding staining, I've always had mixed results, often getting that blotchy finish, no matter how well you sand beforehand. I'm about to stain a wardrobe build, using Fiddes hard wax oil tint, any tips you may have to avoid the blotchiness would be appreciated :)
Hey, thanks for the comment, glad you enjoyed the video! To be honest, the best thing I have found with Birch is to use a water based stain. Fiddes do some excellent WB stains, but I have always found that Oil stains really don't like to spread. Other than that, which isn't a lot of help I know lol, would be to make sure you don't go over 120 or 180 grit at the highest when doing your pre stain sand. I find if you go too high a grit it can cause issues with the stain soaking into the timber face.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop Thanks for that, I'll lookk into water based stains. Also, that's really interesting concerning the sanding. I've always gone to 240 grit, thinking the smoother the better. Time to re-evaluate. Thanks again!
@@markus0067 Ah yes, I see lots of people who sand too high thinking it will give a better finish, you are not alone! Hope the project is going well 👍
@@TheNaturalWorkshop There is a guy her on UA-cam named Mark Spagnola ( The Wood Whisperer) and he did a video where he tested different methods to get pine and other soft woods to take stain better you might want to check out. He got better results by using a sanding sealer first to keep the wood from absorbing the stain at varying rates. Take a look-
@@briannelson4122 Just seen this, thanks, Ill check it out! Have a great weekend!
Correct, Birch has 13 layers for the 3/4 "18mm"
Thank you!
Usually the core is poplar.
Sometimes, on full Birch Ply it should have Birch cores. The poplar stuff is just the birch faced which is useless. Poplar ply has its uses, dont get me wrong, we use it a lot, but its not a touch on birch.
Give me your address please I will come down and paint the top of that bloody wall... LOL
😂 I know it needs to be finished lol. The Mrs does the painting, shes barely 5ft and isnt a fan of ladders so thats why its not been finished lol l. Ill keep you in mind 😉😂
Please check who owns baltic birch business in russia. you will be surprised. i made made some research about it.
Ill check it out!
@@TheNaturalWorkshop Thank you!
Lowe's or Home Depot have NEVER sold what we refer to as "Baltic Birch". You don't know what you're rambling about. Even your photos "explaining" it don't make any sense. When people talk about "Baltic Birch", we mean ply that has all of its layers being the same kind of wood with a high ply count and ZERO voids. 5:24 is NOT it. 5:32 is. The layers that are light on one side should be dark on the other, and vice versa. Maybe you just doctored the photo, but either way, you are not in a position to "educate" people. The "dark edge" never turns the corner in the real material.
It's pretty much universally agreed upon across the entire country that what you're going to get from the "big box stores" is going to be cheap crap or construction grade material at best. Framing lumber, sheathing walls, drywall, backerboards, etc., they're your first stop. There are roughly 10 products in the entire store catering to first-time "woodworkers" that are twice the price and half the quality of anything at a real lumber yard. No one goes there for woodworking material. Trying to "educate" people based on what you've "heard on Instagram and what not" makes you sound like an idiot. You're trying really hard to explain what everyone already knows without really knowing anything yourself.
🤣 Eric, are you having a bad day? Do you need a hug?
The "heard something on Instagram and what not" is actually me running a business which buys Birch Plywood. Ive been doing this for approximately 10 years.
We buy it in from the importer, who buys it directly from the factory, cut it down and sell it on. I know exactly "what is what" because we have purchased 1000s and 1000s of sheets, at one point I was buying by the pallet load on a weekly basis. We specialise in sheet goods. 🤦♂️
As for the glue line, there are two types. Generally, the internal grade Birch Plywood has no visible glue line and is sized at a 5x5' sheets. I know this because we run a laser machine and we can only cut internal grade glue on the laser...so we use the 5 x 5 sheets OR it's the offcuts without the visible glue line.
The external grade plywood has a visible glue line and comes in 8 x 4 sheets. Again, we know this because we get asked to specify Plywood for specific situations and of course again, we can't use external grade glue in the laser machine as it won't cut.
The items I detailed in the video use information that I've found on the Lowes/Home depot website, from family and friends in the US, forums, UA-cam and Facebook. Great places to have a conversation with others 👌🏼
Here is a Chinese website detailing the different types of glue.
www.yalongwood.com/plywood-glue-types/
You have a nice day lol 👍🏼
Oh and Birch plywood is made from Birch, all the layers have to be Birch otherwise it will just be Birch faced. This will then have a Poplar or Eucalyptus core...usually. Its nothing to do with it being "the same kind of wood with a high ply count and zero voids" Those are the things that makeup Birch Plywood.
@@TheNaturalWorkshop It's true, I was a bit grumpy when I wrote that, so apologies for my tone. By "heard on Instagram", I was referring to 7:24 where you explicitly said that you heard it on Instagram in the "Where does all this confusion come from then?" segment. But I've never encountered any confusion about it; Lowe's wouldn't have Baltic Birch -- nor ANY good plywood -- and everyone with a Lowe's nearby knows that. That's not the stuff people are talking about when calling it "Baltic Birch". The whole thing just comes across as "those stupid Americans think they're buying 'Baltic Birch' -- or whatever they call it -- but Lowe's doesn't even have that!"
I'm not sure what you're arguing in this follow-up comment, though. We're saying the same thing. All of the layers are birch, so they are "all the same kind of wood". And it has a higher ply count -- 13 in the 3/4" (18mm) -- than the junk with the poplar core which generally has 5-9. And they patch holes in the inner layers as well as the faces, resulting in zero voids.
The term "Baltic Birch" exists solely to distinguish it from birch faced (often called "paint grade"). If I had to guess, the actual choice of phrase is likely an effort to sweep the whole association with Russia under the rug.
Pls turn the frikkin music off
🤣 noted 👍🏼
that annoying music sure does suck
Do you need a hug? 🤣
Great info but terrible how you ended the video. I think you cheapened it by holding back on the filler, dude. You came off egotistical and I’m sure that was not your intention. Hope I’m wrong.
Apologies for not replying dude, Ive been hung up with Covid the last few weeks which kicked my butt!
Ah man, totally not what I meant to do, just can't give out all those secrets 😉 as like I said, it took me a LONG time to find a good one. That being said, the info is all there for you to find it, make sure to look for a "Natural" colouring which is going to be white to cream and you should be golden 👍🏼 Have a great day dude!
riddle me this... with a roll of my eyes,
The secret wood filler, well it's quite the prize.
"Natural finish," that's all you get,
White to cream, but don't you fret.
I won't spill the beans, took too long to find,
Stainable, sandable? Leave your guesses behind.
A woodworker's riddle, locked without key,
find it yourself, you won't get it from me!
not much point of mentioning it in if you're not going to share the info, seems like a weird thing to hold back on, its hardly the nuclear codes...
p.s.it's probably just Ronseal.
Most of the 4x8 sheets of birch here in the USA is Chinese and it is pretty well inferior
Yeah, that seems to be the big issue, the way timber is being listed in the US is a bit cheeky, to say the least. To be honest, Birch is going to be really hard to get hold of, at least the proper Birch will be as the majority of materials come from Russia so its all classed as conflict timber now. Poplar isn't a bad alternative, just not as strong and dense as birch.