_Fact Check: __3:14__ USS Constitution's hull is made of both white oak and live oak. While the ship's ability to take a pounding of cannonball fire isn't because of the white oak alone. Our point remains the same, though, that white oak is strong, durable, and a good choice for projects that will be exposed to water or when toughness is important to you. Thanks for your time._ 👍
Live Oak comes from the Northern Gulf Coast. President Jefferson decreed that the area where it grows and the actual trees were essential for national security. There's a National Park that runs sporadically from Gulf Breeze FL to Mississippi, it's called the Gulf Shores National Park.
I've read that the armor cladding of the USS Constitution was made of live oak, which is where all the bouncing cannon balls came from. Perhaps the structure had a lot of white oak in it? I've seen pieces of live oak logs, where the grain was very rippled, that strong men were unable to plant a sharp ax into the end grain of it, no matter how hard we tried.
@@UFDionysus Watch the movie "Master and Commander at the Edge of the World" starring Russel Crowe. His nemesis, the Achereon is like the USS Constitution, DOUBLE-HULLED. The "dead space" between the hulls gives the USS Constitution it's enormous hull strength, just like modern reactive armor. Back to red and white oaks. White oak is harder, machines better, is denser, but as of 7/2020, about 20-25% higher than red oak. Red oak is competitively priced to birch, one of my favorite, but almost grainless (boring???) hardwoods. Pecan/hickory are white oak's big brothers. Both harder, denser, much harder to get wide planks in, and more expensive, but many will say the wood's beauty is worthwhile. The "Lexus" of oak is English old-growth White Oak, quarter sawn. I actually prefer the grain and machining of it to American Walnut. Go to French Burl Walnut (like my shotgun stock and forearm) and we've greatly upped the ante. Uhmm, I paid nearly as much for the stock/forearm as for the Remington 3200 over/under shotgun it's on...but gee, it's purty! Trivia: I'm not certain if it's true on the last US aircraft carriers, but up to the USS Ronald Regan
Interesting comment about 'Old Ironsides' the framing (ribs) were built of live oak, because the way it grows lends itself to making curved pieces of great strength. The town of Live Oak Florida was originally established by the Federal Government as a lumber reserve for shipbuilding for that reason.
The author does like to from scratch, ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. As another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us don’t have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we won’t be able to practise the full stack project, is still great.
I really appreciate you getting right to the point without a lot of blather. Your info is exactly what I'm looking for and I don't have to scream in frustration while you discuss ... the weather. Thank you for being so concise!
As a family of boat builders white oak is king. Especially when it comes to steaming and bending ribs and others requiring a single beam to bend. Good presentation, oh yea, it strengthens with age when damp or wet!
Mark,..you are extremely well talented in explaining the subjects you cover. So much so, that I feel folks who want to know, and learn, have an excellent opportunity with what and how you present it. Even your sense of humor and light-heartedness intertwined with the detail and focus of the subject makes the videos much more enjoyable! Great job, sir!
Thanks WS, I had no idea what the difference was between quarter, straight and rift. Direct, to the point, and you provided samples, the way vids should be.
Being in the far North of NH we have both red and white oak. I will tell you there is a difference in the acorns or oak nuts. Now, the red oak nuts are hard and dense great for deer with 4 chambers in the stomach. Now, the white nuts are nice. Boil them for 45 minutes, cool and peel. A savory sweet treat inside oh so good. Greetings from NH. Live, freeze and Die.
Great succinct informative video. It’s noticeable and appreciated how you prepare what you’re going to say so you don’t stumble, ramble or leave out important bits. Wish more you tubers were as professional and conscientious as you. 🙏
If only you had a store in the UK. I am mainly a woodcarver, ex turner, and so I chose stores that catered for people like me. But to see the stock laid out on the racks like that it just mouth watering. Whilst visiting a pal in Calgary one time he took me to a timber store just like the one in your video, and the stock they had was similar to yours. Imagine my frustration at not being able to buy. Thanks though, great and informative video.
I used to work for a farmer throughout high school and he had me doing fencing in a swampy area of the cow pasture. The were many split white oak posts that had been there for decades and they showed no sign of rotting despite being in an extremely wet environment. The red oak didn’t do nearly as well.
Red Oak is not good for anything outside in a wet environment. White oak is. The best wood for fence posts is Locust. It is rock hard and lasts for decades. Vikings also used white oak for ship building. Red Oaks often rot from the inside of the heart wood, leaving a living tree hollow inside. White oaks are less likely to rot this way, so usually live longer. A white oak in my yard lived to be 115 yro. It was not rotten inside. It just died. I miss that tree.
I am a big fan of quarter sawn white oak and unless I missed it, you did not mention the most important plus to quarter sawn white oak. That is how stable it is in humidity changes, good article. Thanks for sharing
Yooo small thing, but keeping the name of the wood you were speaking about for like a whole minute while you were talking about it to make sure we were able to follow along was a nice touch 👌🏼
Interesting fact about oak lumber and presumably any lumber for that matter): the more spacing between each ring indicates faster growth and that also makes it slightly weaker than lumber with closer ring spacing. Where i studied for my forestry degree in southern illinois the soil conditions were great for fast growth but this translated to slightly weaker lumber. In the rocky and rugged soils of the Missouri Ozarks the growth is very slow but also makes very sturdy oak lumber.
Always great information A thought you may want to consider is DC the terrible loud music. I know you may do it because most other UA-cam channels make the same mistake. But think of it this way when you are watchingTV and the loud obnoxious commercial comes on what do you do you change the channel or turn it OFF. I like what I saw I hate what I heard in music.......
One feature of the two oaks discussed that you didn’t mention is the difference in the aroma emitted by them . White oak has an aroma that smells somewhat like cotton candy when being worked, or like something you’d enjoy eating. Red oak frequently smells sour, not unlike vomit. The odor or aroma of the two woods may also help explain why the white is used for casks instead of the more odiferous red. As a cabinet builder I’ve only built one rather disappointing (from my standpoint) kitchen with red oak while I’ve done several with white...a much more pleasing appearance. The white also tools better, and is much more uniform in color and texture. Enjoyed the video and the ensuing comments and discussion...very informative.
Reds have much more tannins in them. That's why they smell sour, why wildlife likes white oak acorns more and why when working with red oak a lot some people's hands actually react with the tannins and turn black (first hand... knowledge)
In the boy scouts we learned it as White oak has rounded tips like the white man's bullets And Red oak has pointy tips like the red man's arrowheads Long time ago tho so probably out of fashion now
Thanks for the explanation. I've had occasion to cut oak installed 200+ yrs. ago. The smell tells me it's oak without a doubt. It's a very distinctive smell, not unpleasant, not perfume.
Does white oak tear as much when cross cutting? This is probably one of the best informational videos I've seen. Straight to the point, and very informative. Nice work!
that's a good question, sorry we didn't hit that in the vid more specifically. But , yes, white oak does behave a little better with cross cutting. Thanks
It is helpful to think of wood grain as a stack of straws or tubes. In red oak the tubes are small enough to break the surface tension of water & move the water through capillary action. White oak, these tubes are segmented. These segments block the migration of water through the tube. White oak was the common wood for garage doors or other outdoor moments 100 years ago plus. These segmented tubes also make white oak a touch harder.
I'll join Gary below "I'm 78" and think this was a very simple yet accurate informative explanation of the two oaks. Thanks for using the "Kiss" technique, it makes life so much easier, than trying to prove how smart you are. and above all thanks for sharing.
Martin! Thanks for the video. Perhaps some would find it difficult to keep up with you, as you have described red as well as white oak and quarter sawn wood. Perhaps you didn't give yourself enough scope to mention the bearing of the age of the lumber on the strength, beauty and workability of the wood. You did make the effort to clear some aspects the confusion on the terminology, so thanks again.
Hey there 🤗 I’m a total newcomer to the woodworking community so this was very helpful. I was wondering if the Quarter Sawn Oak is ever made in thin (1/2” or 1/4” or 1/8”) cuts. I think that gain pattern would be a beautiful addition to an art piece. 5:15
Ha Mark I have been wood working for years and I have used both red and white oak. I never knew the nuances between the two. I just bought the cheapest that looked good. Thanks for the info.
All true, excellent! Just wanted to put in a word about the European oak (Quercus Robur) which is the commonest oak available here in England. It is more like your white oak but usually has a much wilder grain and many more knots and features, not so easy to machine or plane.
Good information well presented. Might also add that white oak is also very good, (and better than red oak) for bending. Especially good is green white oak. So ribs of canoes can be steam bent very nicely out of white oak.
Nice video, I ran a wood finishing company here in southern Indiana (the heart of oak country) We always considered white Oak to be the premium of the two. More stable and takes finishes more evenly. It is what most whiskey barrels are made of. I know this because I went to one of the biggest saw mills in the area for some white Oak and was told Jack Daniels had purchased almost all the standing white Oak in the county. Also, around here anyway. All Quarter sawn Oak is made of white Oak.
I am constantly looking for videos where I can gain the maximum amount of knowledge and information, in the least amount of time. This video embodies that goal. Thank you so much.
Quarter sawn white oak is my favorite wood to work with, I've taken to using ammonia fuming to darken it prior to finishing it. I love the resulting dark coloration.
Greetings from England. An excellent overview. Please do another one, starting with the log, go through milling then the sawing you describe here through to the finished piece
Cool video, man. Glad I found this channel. I definitely learned a few things. I think I like the quarter sawn look. It's got a lot of character to it.
Hello, great video. Live oak which is of the white oak family, is abundant where I live in Natchez Ms. The limbs will grow out so far and sag till they touch the ground, then the end of the limbs that touch the ground sometimes reroot and grow into a massive creature looking tree. They grow wild out in the woods here and that is where you see most of the wild-looking ones. The wood is heavy and it grows its limbs just about as big as its trunk when old. They truly do look alive right around dark. I don't know if it is in any pictures but lookup''James Foster house'' or ''The foster mound house'' in Natchez ms. I use to live there and it's built on an Indian mound. IT has 200yr old live oaks growing in front of it and in the back of it. There is one growing on the corner in the back that is supposed to be the largest live oak trunk around here. It picked the end of the house up with its roots. I'm saying all this because a lot of comments were asking about live oaks and how to tell them apart from other oaks. If you look this up you will see how they are shaped having huge trunks but only12 or 16 ft tall then the l.imbs grow out from the top of the trunk and they are massive and long. Mt Repose is around the corner and has many live oaks you can see in pictures.
Red oak, when first harvested, does indeed have a reddish hue to the wood. This, however, tends dissipate over time as the wood dries. It is also a faster growing tree (in fact, the fastest growing of all oaks), which is why it is more commonly used and of lower price.
Hi Mark I am using White Oak and i think its the Rip Sawn variety for my outdoor Threshold. I'm wondering what would be the best clear finish to use for the this and how to best apply it. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
You are quite right about using white oak outdoors. I once built an outside bench from red oak recycled from old kitchen cabinets. Felt so good reusing the wood. 18 months later it was falling apart. Red oak just does not work outside. It has a grain structure that causes water to wick up into the end grain and rots it from the inside.
That's a really good request, we've considered something like that. In a few older videos we have suggested, if polyurethane is your thing, to use a gel poly that you apply by wipe on/off instead of a "classic" liquid version you brush on. We're thinking of a video about how and why a gel poly is easier to use. Would that have any merit to you?
Quick question, why does no one deal in live oak it seems? Or is it lumped into one of the other oak families? Living in central Texas we have it all over. Just curious the reasons. I’ve done a little work with it here and there and it’s extremely hard, but makes beautiful pieces.
What’s your opinion on glue ups for panels, table tops or whatever between said F-150 and Mustang pieces of wood? Do to the relative differences, would “mixing” in a glue up make for a more “unstable” product? And basically for the same question, what about in the mixed glued up joining of the 3 different styled milled , for let’s say cabinet doors? Would that be ill advised? Before getting deep into wood working, I’ll feel better knowing more about how wood works with each other in it’s different forms. Your video got me wondering and really curious . I’m glad you did this video.
Mixing cutting methods is very common. A well made door for instance, would have the mounting and meeting styles made from quarter sawn lumber, and the panels made from rift or flat sawn.
Building a table from oak slabs from a friends mill he got from someone East of here.....Quite a ways East actually. Now Have to look closer at the wood to see what we are working with. Where we live our wood choices in the timber are Doug Fir and Lodgepole pine. Thanks for the information!
So Mark thats a very good video.I just found some black oak trees here in southern Oregon..So do you know anything about its characteristics and worth ?Board ft?Thank You
hey nanny just told me what i was wondering until fall. leaves changed colour n discover that we have red oak n black ash for bow making. i’m wondering if you have any tips on reading red oak tree. knots twists etc. should i use a tree about foot in diameter or saplings. n what’s difference in wood characteristics between 6 in sapling vs 1 ft tree
Nice video. When I used to live up in the backwoods of far Northwest Wisconsin (near Spooner), I'd cut a lot of Red & White Oak to burn in my Woodburning cook stove. They made the absolutely BEST COALS that lasted a long time! The White Oak was more "stringy" & could be a "pain" to split vs. Red Oak!! Both were as hard as rock, maybe because they were dead dry trees (never had to cut live trees on my 120 acres!). I would also use these Oak stumps to shoot into with my big bore muzzle loading rifles to test for penetration! Chain sawing into White Oak may have been harder than Red Oak (???). But these two woods (among various others) made glorious red orange coals, a sight to behold!!! "Ach du lieber, mein schatz", und"Gesundheit"!
I already knew every point you covered...and yet, I had to watch...couldn't push "stop!" I must comment because the presentation of the information was incredible! Please accept my heartfelt, "Well done!"
I was hoping you would give us some insight on "live" oak. I've never worked with it, but was wondering why I always see other woodworkers either get big grins or cringes of death whenever live oak is mentioned.
That's because live oak is not easy to work with and rarely grows straight, which makes trying to make straight boards and other components very tricky. Also in my experience you should either work it green or have very sharp tools or you will not cut even a somewhat dry piece of lumber, at least not without some frustration and it can even chip the blade of a tool if your not careful since its so hard(its tougher than white oak) I only know because I did that to a tool myself. However, anything made from it as far as i know, is bound to last due to its hardness and resistance to rot, its also a very beautiful wood in most cases.
I would like to express my gratitude for taking the time to teach us such information. for me every word has been listen to and will return againg to restudy Oak genus. Thank you and keep up the great work.
I have many black walnut trees over 50 years old on my property and l thought l knew what the bark is supposed to look like. Recently a few branches broke off one of these trees on an extremely windy day. I snapped a small branch in half and a very pleasant aroma was released, definitely not that of a black walnut branch. Does white oak have a particular fragrance?
What can you tell me about American Beech wood? I live in northeast Tennessee, and it seems beech trees are plentiful. I've picked up a few fallen limbs, sawed them up on my table saw to get some small pieces for highlighting small projects. I'd like to learn more. I'm new to woodworking.
Hello friend. I live in jordan where we don't have that many options of solid wood. I am willing to make a book case from oak. When I did the wood pricing I found a significant price difference between 1 inch and 2 inches thick lumber (price of 1 cubic foot of each) . 2 inches thick oak is 20 to 30 percent more expensive. Is there a technical reason behind this price difference? For example Milling process, sap vs heart... Etc? Thanks in advance for your help
Mark, I notice you usually use reward shellac to seal your projects instead of a sanding sealer or lacquer sealer, is there a reason? I mostly finish with clear lacquer and don’t want any yellowing so I can see the wood colors pop, dreaded shellac appears to yellow more than sealer, or am I wrong about that?
A lot of great information. Presented well and interestingly. One thing I think could have added to it would be an illustration of an actual log and the various types of cuts through the log.
Nicely done!!! I have been trying to tell many UA-camr's to use full spectrum lighting so the camera can pick up on the subtle difference of wood types et...
Mark, great presentation ... I have watched a lot of people trying to connect via these little videos and I've never seen anyone do it better than you did ... of course that might have something to do with the fact that you're just a pretty cool cat too....
This was good information. However I strongly believe that white oak with its closed cells is what sets it apart from the red, as you mentioned. Have you tried to blow soap bubbles with red? Can you do that with white oak?
As a homeowner in central Illinois, I really liked the white oak habit of dropping its fall leaves in a week or two. Yard cleanup was not a problem. Currently, as a homeowner in central Wisconsin our red oak drops previous season leaves every month of the year. Yard looks crappy all year.
I have been to Boston and toured the USS Constitution. Well worth it!! As he said if you are ever near Boston you should check it out. it's very interesting and the guys/ladies giving the tour are actual US Navy sailors.
@1:14: When people talk about red and white oaks, they are talking about the two main _groups_ of oak species, _not_ merely the two species that happen to be called red oak and white oak (scientifically or colloquially). E.g., _Q. Buckleyi_ is a red oak and _Q. Macrocarpa_ is a white oak. Between the two groups, there are differences in leaf shape (pointed vs. rounded), tannins (high vs. low), wood characteristics (e.g., ray prominence), etc.
Yes, ncooty, you are right. Red oak and white oak each contain numerous species that have numerous characteristics in common. One of those characteristics is color. The red oak woods tends to be slightly red although with a lot of variation, whereas the white oak boards tend to be grayish.(although the color, with its variations, is not usually dependable for classification.
Thank you Well done👍 Plain sawed 0-30 degrees, rift cut 30-60 degrees and quarter cut about 60-90 degrees Medullary rays most prominent in quarter cut😊
Great video with a well thought out explanation of the differences between red and white oak. I would just add that white oak is used for making water tight barrels. White oak, like other light color hardwoods such as maple, demands that a woodworker makes sure his power tool blades are super sharp to work on white oak to avoid burn marks, especially on the joints.
Nicely put, thank you. A small bit of botanical pedantry, it's always upper case for the first letter of the Genus, then lower case for the first letter of the species- so Quercus rubra rather than Quercus Rubra.
I am about to burl....I mean hurl... great content from WWS, thanks for the free info and sorry about the folks who are so insecure they need to identify your shortcomings with grammar and spelling. I appreciate your efforts...from a local Phoenix woodworker...
'so this ship built of white oak deflected canon fire. . . . so why would you choose white oak?'. . . . do we really need any more qualities besides deflects canon fire?
USS Constitution's hull had two layers of white oak planking which sandwiched a center layer (running perpendicular) of southern live oak. It was the live oak layer (a type of red oak) which repelled the cannon fire. Other ships of the time had only hulls double planked with two layers of white oak and were readily damaged by cannon fire.
I think the terms for cutting timber in the UK are a little different, for example, tangential or through and through for flat sawn and radial for rift sawn. Anyway, either way this was a great video and I think I’ll take a look at some others. Thanks.
Hello, i have an old table made of rosewood. It has been outside too long and needs a good sanding and finishing to bring out the color again. How would you recommend me to finish the top?
This was a great video. I’ve only been woodworking about 2 years, and I knew a few of the differences between the two but not in this much detail. And I didn’t know about the different sawing techniques. I love these lumber learning videos.
_Fact Check: __3:14__ USS Constitution's hull is made of both white oak and live oak. While the ship's ability to take a pounding of cannonball fire isn't because of the white oak alone. Our point remains the same, though, that white oak is strong, durable, and a good choice for projects that will be exposed to water or when toughness is important to you. Thanks for your time._ 👍
Woodworkers Source good wood!
Live oak (Q. Virginiana) is so dense it sinks in water, its like cutting rock.
Live Oak comes from the Northern Gulf Coast. President Jefferson decreed that the area where it grows and the actual trees were essential for national security. There's a National Park that runs sporadically from Gulf Breeze FL to Mississippi, it's called the Gulf Shores National Park.
I've read that the armor cladding of the USS Constitution was made of live oak, which is where all the bouncing cannon balls came from. Perhaps the structure had a lot of white oak in it? I've seen pieces of live oak logs, where the grain was very rippled, that strong men were unable to plant a sharp ax into the end grain of it, no matter how hard we tried.
@@UFDionysus Watch the movie "Master and Commander at the Edge of the World" starring Russel Crowe. His nemesis, the Achereon is like the USS Constitution, DOUBLE-HULLED. The "dead space" between the hulls gives the USS Constitution it's enormous hull strength, just like modern reactive armor. Back to red and white oaks. White oak is harder, machines better, is denser, but as of 7/2020, about 20-25% higher than red oak. Red oak is competitively priced to birch, one of my favorite, but almost grainless (boring???) hardwoods. Pecan/hickory are white oak's big brothers. Both harder, denser, much harder to get wide planks in, and more expensive, but many will say the wood's beauty is worthwhile. The "Lexus" of oak is English old-growth White Oak, quarter sawn. I actually prefer the grain and machining of it to American Walnut. Go to French Burl Walnut (like my shotgun stock and forearm) and we've greatly upped the ante. Uhmm, I paid nearly as much for the stock/forearm as for the Remington 3200 over/under shotgun it's on...but gee, it's purty! Trivia: I'm not certain if it's true on the last US aircraft carriers, but up to the USS Ronald Regan
Interesting comment about 'Old Ironsides' the framing (ribs) were built of live oak, because the way it grows lends itself to making curved pieces of great strength.
The town of Live Oak Florida was originally established by the Federal Government as a lumber reserve for shipbuilding for that reason.
Live oak is considered a "white oak" species.
The author does like to from scratch, ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. As another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us don’t have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we won’t be able to practise the full stack project, is still great.
I really appreciate you getting right to the point without a lot of blather. Your info is exactly what I'm looking for and I don't have to scream in frustration while you discuss ... the weather. Thank you for being so concise!
As a family of boat builders white oak is king. Especially when it comes to steaming and bending ribs and others requiring a single beam to bend. Good presentation, oh yea, it strengthens with age when damp or wet!
Mark,..you are extremely well talented in explaining the subjects you cover. So much so, that I feel folks who want to know, and learn, have an excellent opportunity with what and how you present it. Even your sense of humor and light-heartedness intertwined with the detail and focus of the subject makes the videos much more enjoyable! Great job, sir!
Thanks WS, I had no idea what the difference was between quarter, straight and rift. Direct, to the point, and you provided samples, the way vids should be.
Being in the far North of NH we have both red and white oak. I will tell you there is a difference in the acorns or oak nuts. Now, the red oak nuts are hard and dense great for deer with 4 chambers in the stomach. Now, the white nuts are nice. Boil them for 45 minutes, cool and peel. A savory sweet treat inside oh so good. Greetings from NH. Live, freeze and Die.
Great succinct informative video. It’s noticeable and appreciated how you prepare what you’re going to say so you don’t stumble, ramble or leave out important bits. Wish more you tubers were as professional and conscientious as you. 🙏
You are the most helpful and concise wood nerd on youtube, thank you lol
If only you had a store in the UK. I am mainly a woodcarver, ex turner, and so I chose stores that catered for people like me. But to see the stock laid out on the racks like that it just mouth watering. Whilst visiting a pal in Calgary one time he took me to a timber store just like the one in your video, and the stock they had was similar to yours. Imagine my frustration at not being able to buy. Thanks though, great and informative video.
I used to work for a farmer throughout high school and he had me doing fencing in a swampy area of the cow pasture. The were many split white oak posts that had been there for decades and they showed no sign of rotting despite being in an extremely wet environment. The red oak didn’t do nearly as well.
Red Oak is not good for anything outside in a wet environment. White oak is. The best wood for fence posts is Locust. It is rock hard and lasts for decades. Vikings also used white oak for ship building. Red Oaks often rot from the inside of the heart wood, leaving a living tree hollow inside. White oaks are less likely to rot this way, so usually live longer. A white oak in my yard lived to be 115 yro. It was not rotten inside. It just died. I miss that tree.
I’m 75 and have never heard this topic described simpler or better.
You are too kind, thank you!
Gary Fairbrother Sorry to hear that. About being 75. Lol
Daniel Holt XXL What a crap comment ! Sorry to hear you are ignorant ! Lol
@@danielholtxxl4936 You're shit.
@@danielholtxxl4936 What a dick, you sure could use a god smack, I am sure one is coming.
I am a big fan of quarter sawn white oak and unless I missed it, you did not mention the most important plus to quarter sawn white oak. That is how stable it is in humidity changes, good article. Thanks for sharing
The quality of comment section was why I subscribed...thanks for vid and those who taught me today!
Yooo small thing, but keeping the name of the wood you were speaking about for like a whole minute while you were talking about it to make sure we were able to follow along was a nice touch 👌🏼
Interesting fact about oak lumber and presumably any lumber for that matter): the more spacing between each ring indicates faster growth and that also makes it slightly weaker than lumber with closer ring spacing. Where i studied for my forestry degree in southern illinois the soil conditions were great for fast growth but this translated to slightly weaker lumber. In the rocky and rugged soils of the Missouri Ozarks the growth is very slow but also makes very sturdy oak lumber.
Mark, I love this channel. Just started woodworking and this provides a wealth of information. Thanks!
Always great information A thought you may want to consider is DC the terrible loud music. I know you may do it because most other UA-cam channels make the same mistake. But think of it this way when you are watchingTV and the loud obnoxious commercial comes on what do you do you change the channel or turn it OFF. I like what I saw I hate what I heard in music.......
You should have 100K subs. Very good video, and thanks for not making it 30 min long! Keep it up brother!
Haha, you're awesome thanks for recognizing our effort to keep 'em short and to the point.
One feature of the two oaks discussed that you didn’t mention is the difference in the aroma emitted by them . White oak has an aroma that smells somewhat like cotton candy when being worked, or like something you’d enjoy eating. Red oak frequently smells sour, not unlike vomit. The odor or aroma of the two woods may also help explain why the white is used for casks instead of the more odiferous red.
As a cabinet builder I’ve only built one rather disappointing (from my standpoint) kitchen with red oak while I’ve done several with white...a much more pleasing appearance. The white also tools better, and is much more uniform in color and texture.
Enjoyed the video and the ensuing comments and discussion...very informative.
Reds have much more tannins in them. That's why they smell sour, why wildlife likes white oak acorns more and why when working with red oak a lot some people's hands actually react with the tannins and turn black (first hand... knowledge)
White oak has rounded leaf tips. Red oak has sharp pointed leaf tips.
Yep!!!
Not always, look at water oak for example which is a red species.
In the boy scouts we learned it as White oak has rounded tips like the white man's bullets And Red oak has pointy tips like the red man's arrowheads
Long time ago tho so probably out of fashion now
Thanks for the explanation. I've had occasion to cut oak installed 200+ yrs. ago. The smell tells me it's oak without a doubt. It's a very distinctive smell, not unpleasant, not perfume.
Does white oak tear as much when cross cutting?
This is probably one of the best informational videos I've seen. Straight to the point, and very informative. Nice work!
that's a good question, sorry we didn't hit that in the vid more specifically. But , yes, white oak does behave a little better with cross cutting. Thanks
Thanks
I’ve asked this question before and only got vague smart alec answers; thank you.
Mark loved this video. Great info and your sense of humor is right up my alley. Great job brother
awesome thank you much!
Thank you man. I'm building a farm table top out of 100 year red oak right now and never knew these things about red or white. I like em both.
It is helpful to think of wood grain as a stack of straws or tubes. In red oak the tubes are small enough to break the surface tension of water & move the water through capillary action. White oak, these tubes are segmented. These segments block the migration of water through the tube. White oak was the common wood for garage doors or other outdoor moments 100 years ago plus. These segmented tubes also make white oak a touch harder.
I'll join Gary below "I'm 78" and think this was a very simple yet accurate informative explanation of the two oaks. Thanks for using the "Kiss" technique, it makes life so much easier, than trying to prove how smart you are. and above all thanks for sharing.
Martin!
Thanks for the video.
Perhaps some would find it difficult to keep up with you, as you have described red as well as white oak and quarter sawn wood.
Perhaps you didn't give yourself enough scope to mention the bearing of the age of the lumber on the strength, beauty and workability of the wood.
You did make the effort to clear some aspects the confusion on the terminology, so thanks again.
Hey there 🤗 I’m a total newcomer to the woodworking community so this was very helpful. I was wondering if the Quarter
Sawn Oak is ever made in thin (1/2” or 1/4” or 1/8”) cuts. I think that gain pattern would be a beautiful addition to an art piece. 5:15
Usually it can be made thin as a custom cut on-demand
Ha Mark I have been wood working for years and I have used both red and white oak. I never knew the nuances between the two. I just bought the cheapest that looked good. Thanks for the info.
Thank you 👍🏼. You’re speaking my language car guy enjoying my saw mill! Great video
That is very helpful and informative. I'm always hesitant on going to the lumber yard but this gives me much needed tools.
All true, excellent! Just wanted to put in a word about the European oak (Quercus Robur) which is the commonest oak available here in England. It is more like your white oak but usually has a much wilder grain and many more knots and features, not so easy to machine or plane.
Both make terrific firewood.
Good information well presented. Might also add that white oak is also very good, (and better than red oak) for bending. Especially good is green white oak. So ribs of canoes can be steam bent very nicely out of white oak.
Nice balance between technical and practical information. Well done my dude.
Nice video, I ran a wood finishing company here in southern Indiana (the heart of oak country)
We always considered white Oak to be the premium of the two. More stable and takes finishes more evenly. It is what most whiskey barrels are made of. I know this because I went to one of the biggest saw mills in the area for some white Oak and was told Jack Daniels had purchased almost all the standing white Oak in the county. Also, around here anyway. All Quarter sawn Oak is made of white Oak.
White oak is used for the barrels because of the tighter grain, red oak barrels would leak
I am constantly looking for videos where I can gain the maximum amount of knowledge and information, in the least amount of time. This video embodies that goal. Thank you so much.
The City Official happy to deliver one puzzle piece in your quest 🤘🤘
You sir are my new favorite professor on this platform. Great explanation, today I'm a little bit wiser from your words and for that I thank you.
Quarter sawn white oak is my favorite wood to work with, I've taken to using ammonia fuming to darken it prior to finishing it. I love the resulting dark coloration.
Interesting never heard about this how does it work
Greetings from England. An excellent overview. Please do another one, starting with the log, go through milling then the sawing you describe here through to the finished piece
Good and informative job on the explanation between white and red oak! Thank you.
Cool video, man. Glad I found this channel. I definitely learned a few things. I think I like the quarter sawn look. It's got a lot of character to it.
Hello, great video. Live oak which is of the white oak family, is abundant where I live in Natchez Ms. The limbs will grow out so far and sag till they touch the ground, then the end of the limbs that touch the ground sometimes reroot and grow into a massive creature looking tree. They grow wild out in the woods here and that is where you see most of the wild-looking ones. The wood is heavy and it grows its limbs just about as big as its trunk when old. They truly do look alive right around dark. I don't know if it is in any pictures but lookup''James Foster house'' or ''The foster mound house'' in Natchez ms. I use to live there and it's built on an Indian mound. IT has 200yr old live oaks growing in front of it and in the back of it. There is one growing on the corner in the back that is supposed to be the largest live oak trunk around here. It picked the end of the house up with its roots. I'm saying all this because a lot of comments were asking about live oaks and how to tell them apart from other oaks. If you look this up you will see how they are shaped having huge trunks but only12 or 16 ft tall then the l.imbs grow out from the top of the trunk and they are massive and long. Mt Repose is around the corner and has many live oaks you can see in pictures.
Red oak, when first harvested, does indeed have a reddish hue to the wood. This, however, tends dissipate over time as the wood dries. It is also a faster growing tree (in fact, the fastest growing of all oaks), which is why it is more commonly used and of lower price.
What’s a good medium brown stain for red oak flooring ... don’t want it too yellow or red. Thanks so much!!!!
Excellent short and to the point summary.
Sorry it took me so long to see this.............nicely done. I thought I knew something about oak...Ohio. Tons of it. I learned alot! Thanks!
Hi Mark I am using White Oak and i think its the Rip Sawn variety for my outdoor Threshold. I'm wondering what would be the best clear finish to use for the this and how to best apply it. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
You are quite right about using white oak outdoors. I once built an outside bench from red oak recycled from old kitchen cabinets. Felt so good reusing the wood. 18 months later it was falling apart. Red oak just does not work outside. It has a grain structure that causes water to wick up into the end grain and rots it from the inside.
Great presentation. Can you (if you haven't already) do a video showing the proper use of / application of polyurethane. Thank you.
That's a really good request, we've considered something like that. In a few older videos we have suggested, if polyurethane is your thing, to use a gel poly that you apply by wipe on/off instead of a "classic" liquid version you brush on. We're thinking of a video about how and why a gel poly is easier to use. Would that have any merit to you?
Quick question, why does no one deal in live oak it seems? Or is it lumped into one of the other oak families? Living in central Texas we have it all over. Just curious the reasons. I’ve done a little work with it here and there and it’s extremely hard, but makes beautiful pieces.
What’s your opinion on glue ups for panels, table tops or whatever between said F-150 and Mustang pieces of wood? Do to the relative differences, would “mixing” in a glue up make for a more “unstable” product? And basically for the same question, what about in the mixed glued up joining of the 3 different styled milled , for let’s say cabinet doors? Would that be ill advised? Before getting deep into wood working, I’ll feel better knowing more about how wood works with each other in it’s different forms. Your video got me wondering and really curious . I’m glad you did this video.
Mixing cutting methods is very common.
A well made door for instance, would have the mounting and meeting styles made from quarter sawn lumber, and the panels made from rift or flat sawn.
Glue a F-150 and Mustang together, you get a Fusion I think
Building a table from oak slabs from a friends mill he got from someone East of here.....Quite a ways East actually. Now Have to look closer at the wood to see what we are working with. Where we live our wood choices in the timber are Doug Fir and Lodgepole pine. Thanks for the information!
Good information. What finish product should be used for white oak that is going to be outdoors? Thanks much.
So Mark thats a very good video.I just found some black oak trees here in southern Oregon..So do you know anything about its characteristics and worth ?Board ft?Thank You
The information is so great !! Love the way you explain everything !!
I enjoy learning from everyone as well. Have you discovered some of the other masters in woodworking?
hey nanny just told me what i was wondering until fall. leaves changed colour n discover that we have red oak n black ash for bow making. i’m wondering if you have any tips on reading red oak tree. knots twists etc. should i use a tree about foot in diameter or saplings. n what’s difference in wood characteristics between 6 in sapling vs 1 ft tree
Nice video. When I used to live up in the backwoods of far Northwest Wisconsin (near Spooner), I'd cut a lot of Red & White Oak to burn in my Woodburning cook stove. They made the absolutely BEST COALS that lasted a long time! The White Oak was more "stringy" & could be a "pain" to split vs. Red Oak!! Both were as hard as rock, maybe because they were dead dry trees (never had to cut live trees on my 120 acres!). I would also use these Oak stumps to shoot into with my big bore muzzle loading rifles to test for penetration! Chain sawing into White Oak may have been harder than Red Oak (???). But these two woods (among various others) made glorious red orange coals, a sight to behold!!! "Ach du lieber, mein schatz", und"Gesundheit"!
I already knew every point you covered...and yet, I had to watch...couldn't push "stop!" I must comment because the presentation of the information was incredible! Please accept my heartfelt, "Well done!"
I was hoping you would give us some insight on "live" oak. I've never worked with it, but was wondering why I always see other woodworkers either get big grins or cringes of death whenever live oak is mentioned.
That's because live oak is not easy to work with and rarely grows straight, which makes trying to make straight boards and other components very tricky. Also in my experience you should either work it green or have very sharp tools or you will not cut even a somewhat dry piece of lumber, at least not without some frustration and it can even chip the blade of a tool if your not careful since its so hard(its tougher than white oak) I only know because I did that to a tool myself. However, anything made from it as far as i know, is bound to last due to its hardness and resistance to rot, its also a very beautiful wood in most cases.
I would like to express my gratitude for taking the time to teach us such information. for me every word has been listen to and will return againg to restudy Oak genus. Thank you and keep up the great work.
I have many black walnut trees over 50 years old on my property and l thought l knew what the bark is supposed to look like. Recently a few branches broke off one of these trees on an extremely windy day. I snapped a small branch in half and a very pleasant aroma was released, definitely not that of a black walnut branch. Does white oak have a particular fragrance?
Outstanding 6 minute presentation, all very useful information! Louis S.
Awesome explanations! Thank you!
Very good explanations and pictures.
What can you tell me about American Beech wood? I live in northeast Tennessee, and it seems beech trees are plentiful. I've picked up a few fallen limbs, sawed them up on my table saw to get some small pieces for highlighting small projects. I'd like to learn more. I'm new to woodworking.
Hey Mark, always great information on your channel. I learn something new every time I listen to you!! 👍👍👍😎🇨🇱
Thank you for such well presented information. Very enjoyable.
Hello friend. I live in jordan where we don't have that many options of solid wood. I am willing to make a book case from oak. When I did the wood pricing I found a significant price difference between 1 inch and 2 inches thick lumber (price of 1 cubic foot of each) . 2 inches thick oak is 20 to 30 percent more expensive. Is there a technical reason behind this price difference? For example Milling process, sap vs heart... Etc?
Thanks in advance for your help
Mark, I notice you usually use reward shellac to seal your projects instead of a sanding sealer or lacquer sealer, is there a reason? I mostly finish with clear lacquer and don’t want any yellowing so I can see the wood colors pop, dreaded shellac appears to yellow more than sealer, or am I wrong about that?
Only that it’s easy, very clear and dries super fast
A lot of great information. Presented well and interestingly. One thing I think could have added to it would be an illustration of an actual log and the various types of cuts through the log.
Nicely done!!! I have been trying to tell many UA-camr's to use full spectrum lighting so the camera can pick up on the subtle difference of wood types et...
I just finished a white oak Adirondack chair and looking for finish recommendations, either clear or semi-transparent preferably
Mark, great presentation ... I have watched a lot of people trying to connect via these little videos and I've never seen anyone do it better than you did ... of course that might have something to do with the fact that you're just a pretty cool cat too....
Great site.it would be nice to see more of the tree .we have so many here in florida.not sure how to identify them
This was good information. However I strongly believe that white oak with its closed cells is what sets it apart from the red, as you mentioned. Have you tried to blow soap bubbles with red? Can you do that with white oak?
As a homeowner in central Illinois, I really liked the white oak habit of dropping its fall leaves in a week or two. Yard cleanup was not a problem. Currently, as a homeowner in central Wisconsin our red oak drops previous season leaves every month of the year. Yard looks crappy all year.
I have been to Boston and toured the USS Constitution. Well worth it!! As he said if you are ever near Boston you should check it out. it's very interesting and the guys/ladies giving the tour are actual US Navy sailors.
Love your channel and the way you explain things. Fantastic stuff. Learning alot.
Great video. Straight to the point. Just how I like em. Subscribed!
Thank you for clearing that up!
I like white oak better than red oak.
@1:14: When people talk about red and white oaks, they are talking about the two main _groups_ of oak species, _not_ merely the two species that happen to be called red oak and white oak (scientifically or colloquially). E.g., _Q. Buckleyi_ is a red oak and _Q. Macrocarpa_ is a white oak. Between the two groups, there are differences in leaf shape (pointed vs. rounded), tannins (high vs. low), wood characteristics (e.g., ray prominence), etc.
Yes, ncooty, you are right. Red oak and white oak each contain numerous species that have numerous characteristics in common. One of those characteristics is color. The red oak woods tends to be slightly red although with a lot of variation, whereas the white oak boards tend to be grayish.(although the color, with its variations, is not usually dependable for classification.
Thank you
Well done👍
Plain sawed 0-30 degrees, rift cut 30-60 degrees and quarter cut about 60-90 degrees
Medullary rays most prominent in quarter cut😊
Succinct!
Great video with a well thought out explanation of the differences between red and white oak. I would just add that white oak is used for making water tight barrels. White oak, like other light color hardwoods such as maple, demands that a woodworker makes sure his power tool blades are super sharp to work on white oak to avoid burn marks, especially on the joints.
This video is loaded with amazing information. Thank you for sharing
Incredibly useful information! Thanks for putting this out.
Nicely put, thank you. A small bit of botanical pedantry, it's always upper case for the first letter of the Genus, then lower case for the first letter of the species- so Quercus rubra rather than Quercus Rubra.
Of course.
That’s an interesting comment. I have wondered that very thing. Thanks for stating that.
I am about to burl....I mean hurl... great content from WWS, thanks for the free info and sorry about the folks who are so insecure they need to identify your shortcomings with grammar and spelling. I appreciate your efforts...from a local Phoenix woodworker...
'so this ship built of white oak deflected canon fire. . . . so why would you choose white oak?'. . . . do we really need any more qualities besides deflects canon fire?
This is a primary characteristic in my house, cannon-fire at meal times
USS Constitution's hull had two layers of white oak planking which sandwiched a center layer (running perpendicular) of southern live oak. It was the live oak layer (a type of red oak) which repelled the cannon fire. Other ships of the time had only hulls double planked with two layers of white oak and were readily damaged by cannon fire.
@@JGW845 So it was like plywood !
Smartypants for the win!
Sunliner Vet an early version of Armor Proofed Plywood?
Excellent explanation about red & white oak!
Ohhh God my head hurts ...lol your a freaking geny when it comes to Oaks woods in general...love it...thankx
Great job. I'm surprised you didn't explain the porous properties of Red Oak. I'm a new subscriber and looking forward to your other videos.
thanks...I've been educated regarding OAK! Next project will be adjusted!
I think the terms for cutting timber in the UK are a little different, for example, tangential or through and through for flat sawn and radial for rift sawn. Anyway, either way this was a great video and I think I’ll take a look at some others. Thanks.
Hello, i have an old table made of rosewood. It has been outside too long and needs a good sanding and finishing to bring out the color again.
How would you recommend me to finish the top?
This was a great video. I’ve only been woodworking about 2 years, and I knew a few of the differences between the two but not in this much detail. And I didn’t know about the different sawing techniques. I love these lumber learning videos.
Just wait until you find woodworkingwithron and your head will blow up with knowledge. Or Paul Sellers or...
This was very interesting. Thank you for educating me. 👍🏻🙏
Probably one of the most useful random UA-cam suggestions I've gotten to date. You've got a new subscriber!