Coney Reacts to "A Tale of Two Top Tiers"
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2023
- Coney reacts to @LeonMassey's "A Tale of Two Top Tiers" and gives his experience of Super Smash Bros. Brawl's Metaknight and Super Smash Bros. Melee's Fox.
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Edited by Quinn: / quinnandwin
#coney #smashbros #react - Ігри
This is the most uncony name ive ever seen
Unconey valley
Ai wrote the title
I was thinking the same thing
Normally it would've been like "These Two Characters were CRAZY"
True
The production value for just a video discussing 2 top tiers in 2 different smash games is very high.
Leon Massey really made it interesting to watch.
I think the epitome of Meta Knight is that fact that my small family of 3 kids who only 2 REALLY played Brawl, all 3 of us unanimously agreed that Meta Knight is cracked and we made a rule no one could play Meta Knight. I have multiple friends who can concur on the same decision.
Had the same thing when I was a kid, even when I was a casual we could tell that MK is busted, even his moves like jab were a menace to my friends and I lmao
u guys might've been on to something
@@jactotum what can I say, I was a smart kid
Same with me, when I was like 6 playing brawl with my cousins, we all could agree meta knight was broken, whilst obviously playing for fun, items on and being fucking 6 year old`s. Genuinely insane a character can be this good.
My family also banned meta knight but we were all small children who sucked at the game so we banned kirby too for some reason
I would LOVE to see "A Tale of 2 Top Tiers" as a sequel with Bayonetta and Steve
"...Instead of having good intentions for the better fairness of their kingdoms, much like their faster, even skilled ancestors, these two rulers sought nothing but to take power throughout their lands, and rule through aggressive, ruthless tyranny, leaving all of the 5 Commandments, lost to time..."
- A Tale of Another Two Top Tiers (2025)
@@tehdrago Now, now, that's not completely true. Imma make up some lore:
"Unlike Bayo, Steve learned from both Melee and Brawl to further his craft in combat, being able to slow down, speed up, and stop the gears of the game at a moment's notice which would make his top tier ancestors proud. He continued to advance his skill and share it with his subjects to show his progress as their king. And then he got Julius Ceasar'ed because he was learning techniques that looked like they fundamentally broke the game so regardless whether Steve was able to flesh his skills out or not, the kingdom Ultimate-ly decided that ⅓ of his kingdom belonged to the people instead. The former kings, sitting in their thrones, pondered why their heiress who bored them didn't get the axe sooner while the other who showed promise lost a 3rd of his kingdom so early in his reign."
Steve’s kingdom just annexed Bayo’s kingdom lol
As messed up as it is to say, Steve is the second healthiest top 1 character we’ve had in Smash history
@@theillusionist1494not only that, steve and sonic back to back
I distinctly remember m2k directly getting ppl to keep mk legal by threatening to just not go to that person's event, and because the community has always been full of clout goblins, that worked
I love that I get double the entertainment value out of every good smash video nowadays: once when I watch it myself, then again when I watch Coney watch it
As all good react content should be
Coney is like the only person when they react to a video the reaction video is actually shorter than the main video
Coney is finally confident enough to use his own name in a video title
My family actually had no clue of comp smash whatsoever, we didn't know what a tier list was. But meta-knight was still banned in the household.
I really don't understand this we just played all the characters never stumble upon banning a character. Same way that I never trip and never saw anyone else trip while playing brawl.
@@greenoftreeblackofblue6625 I'm calling cap on the never tripping part. Unless you played the game for like 2m
I always thought m2k being ranked one in melee and brawl at the same time was insane. Would love to hear your pov of him at that time
don't forget also a top PM player, going into Grands at Apex 2014 against ARMADA
it truly was the era of the gods
Money
it wasnt that insane. he was only good at melee and would just camp the fuck out of people as meta knight in brawl
@@jojivlogs_4255 childish behavior
he was beating everyone and ranked #1, doesn't matter how he did it
@@alexv0714 M2K lost his top spot by mid Brawl. The argument was if he could have been top if he dropped Melee in favor of Brawl.
Yes! I just found him, but Leon Massay is incredible!
Leon also edited the Ook video for Coney if ya didn’t know.
Imo on the topic of wobbling (17:15) I think ultimately it was for entertainment purposes. Imagine watching a basketball player just take the ball after it fell through the hoop and putting it back in until they win. Yeah they’d have to get to the rim but when it starts it won’t end until they win. Same reason baseball’s added a pitch clock. They could go without it but it makes it boring
I thought the pitch clock was added to Baseball just to make the games go quicker, I suppose that is still about entertainment value but I thought it was more to do with being able to show more games. I mean if a sport being boring and long was enough to kill it then Cricket, Golf, Snooker, etc wouldn't exist haha.
Though I do agree that watching someone just grab someone over and over probably would get boring (though there's something I think to be said about the entertainment value of watching what the other guy has to do to avoid being grabbed) but then couldn't you say the same thing about Meta Knight? Yeah he presses more buttons but he's just doing the same things over and over and you knew 9 times out of 10 that if you saw a Meta Knight he was going to win. Where as Icies even with the wobbling I doubt had the winrate of Meta Knight.
Locals were plagued with ICs too, not fun to go to your first local and get wobbled literally every stock by a player who picked up Ice climbers two months ago.
To me it makes the most sense from a skill upset potential. It allows someone to who gets comparatively a fraction of the openings of their opponent win the match. If Wobbling for whatever reason just rocketed someone into having an extra 100% in 4 seconds it would still be the same problem. It allows players of a much lower skill level to get constant upsets on much higher skilled players, and so even if they're not necessarily winning tournaments because maybe the top 3 or 4 players are just THAT good that Wobbling alone can't upset the entire tournament, it still does enough damage a large portion of the brackets that it's cancerous to the life of the game and it's community.
There were a couple of big reasons for Wobbling being banned outright.
#1 was absolutely because it is the dullest thing in a fighting game. Watching someone basically play Guitar Hero Easy Mode in the middle of a set is objectively boring, and against any IC you were expecting it to happen a few times every game.
And that is exactly how you kill any interest newcomers may have. Go to a locals and find that one IC player not care about DI, reads, a ton of interaction, and it felt terrible.
So Wobbling’s banned in locals. But what about majors and super majors, where you’re expected to preform at a higher level? Well, where are you going to play against wobbling if it’s banned at locals? Ask Chudat to a 30 min Slippy practice set?
And why those ICs practice against people that could beat them? They could fight strong Foxes and Marths any day, but the pool of ICs is diluted.
And then you’d have a situation like Puff, where people would literally finance Soft (the only other good Puff at the time) to go to tournaments HBox was at and would make HBox place lower by practicing against Puff.
So if Wobbling is banned at lower levels, there’s no convenient way to practice against it or learn it, so it should be banned at higher levels.
Wobbling was banned because it was
1. Frustrating for everyone
2. Lame to watch
3. Lame to play against
4. Worked on everyone now matter who they played. Against icies, you’re always one grab away from a stock being taken and there’s no counter aside from not getting grabbed. That’s just insane
In the context of this analysis, I feel in Ultimate both Kazuya and Steve are “Meta Knight” kinds of top tiers. Not necessarily as inherently broken, but in the sense that you have to “play their game”, “can’t play your own game”, and “if you get a punish for a mistake it’s so much less reward than what they get for them punishing you.”
Pyra/Mythra and Joker fall more into the Fox category. Definitely still crazy and broken but at least once you have your opening they will fall like any of the rest
Had the pleasure to meet leon at a melee event here in Ireland, didnt even know he was a big content creator but now I cant recommend his content enough haha
I don't get why people defend wobbling. Sure, it makes the ice climbers more competitive when they aren't already, but the fact that very few players and even fewer spectators actually enjoy it should be enough of a reason to get rid of it. I think not having it has also just allowed for a healthy, competitive and more enjoyable meta to develop.
It also just kinda breaks the game. There is counterplay, but do we really want more sets like michael and bananas?
If I didn't watch this already on stream I would've thought this title was a bait, seeing completely normal, accurate non-clickbaity title on a Coney video is very unusual
I still hear the whooshing sounds of the Mach Tornado incident of 2008
17:28 not maybe. PudgyPanda beating Axe at Smashcon in... 2018? 2019? don't remember, but Axe losing to PudgyPanda caused Axe to call for a wobbling ban, re-igniting the issue and inevitably leading to its ban worldwide. I would argue that Mango is what kept the idea of a ban alive, but Axe getting axed from a tournament to an unranked ICs was the straw that broke the camels back, or in this case, the crack in the walls that caused the castle to crumble lol
Tripping seems mad annoying even in casual play. Like imagine if there was a small chance that your button input just refused to go through bc Nintendo thought that shit was hilarious
Dedede doing chain grabs and ending it with Upthrow > UpSmash is a legit kill confirm against all fast fallers, too. Just in case you come back to PM one day
I remember in the smash brothers documentary when they showed m2k being the best at brawl and melee he said meta knight felt like the only melee character in brawl because of his speed, some of meta knights traits are common in melee but part of his dominance in brawl are the fact that nobody else can keep up, also he’s completely broken in a ton of other ways and would dominate if he was in melee too lol
I think the main reason wobbling should be banned isn't because it's dominant, because it isn't. It's mostly because it often wastes time, and always lessens the experience for almost everyone involved. Anything that promotes not actually playing the game should be banned, whether it's dominant or not, just for the greater good.
11:05 imagine just randomly in an fps hearing the sound of a jet take off behind you.
We're like 2 degrees from Coney reacting to Big Yellow and that would be awesome
Also the monarchy isn't the government lol
tbf though the UK government is even more of a shambles and hated than the monarchy atm haha.
@@Gohka Lol true. But just. Abolish the monarchy lmao
@@austinfletchermusic I've never really had any problem with us having a monarchy. As far as I'm aware, though I could be wrong, they bring in more money than they cost just through tourism.
Hell over the last few years I was hoping the Queen was just gonna walk in to parliament and tell them she's stopping this shit show and taking back control. I'd happily let the UK be a kingdom again than have to deal with the vile Tories any more lol.
2:23 i didn't know pet shop was a top tier, interesting
About Gibraltar, way back in the day, Gibraltar got so omega buffed to the point where he had 100% pickrate in competitive Apex Legends, if you didn't have a gibby on your team you were trolling/throwing, because he could literally do everything AND do it strongly.
I was as surprised as you were by my shoutout 😅
I watched this vid like 3 times waiting for coney to eventually react to it
This was a fun video, looking forward to seeing how Coney reacts
Wobbling being banned is good. It creates a huge barrier to entry at a lower level in brackets and it is NOT fun to play against.
I love ultimate wolf but I totally forgot how good he is lmao
The early tier list just shows every new game we have all forgotten how to play
Remember when people said K.rool and ganon were gonna be good ?
To be fair to k rool, he was really good until they nerfed his up b so you couldn't kill by bringing the opponent to the blast zone
18:20 coney wants the screen shake from the drive through lol!
Hey coney just wanted to say I love and appreciate the consistent uploads, your such a joy to watch and I love your personality! Hope and wish you well ❤
itd be interesting to compare these characters to the top tiers of the other games. i think these are two characters that make the most out of what their games have to offer mechanically. in 64, this argument can be made for pikachu and/or kirby. Does bayonetta fall into this category? i was never a big sm4sh player, but given the rage gimping and ladder combo degeneracy its easy to say from a surface level that she could in fact fall under that description. but then in ult, would we say steve or kazuya meet these requirements? they almost feel like there was so much added specifically for them in their inclusion as DLC, is it really fair to say either of them 'make the most' of what ultimate has to offer? or just that they make the most of what sakurai had to offer THEM?
DLC Privilege is 100% a thing for Bayo/Cloud and Steve. The best comparisons IMO would be the base game top tiers, so Sheik/Diddy/Rosa for Smash 4 or ROB/Sonic/(hilariously) Fox for Ultimate.
(Although Pythra, despite being DLC and #2 on the Ultimate tier list, is proving shockingly healthy (in part because, despite their pick-up-and-play nature, somehow nobody can actually win a major with them).
YATO
Anyone else remember the official guide for Brawl ranking Meta Knight as a 6/10?
0:53 dr mario looks menacing 😭
now we need to get coney to watch the ultrakill video
I’m glad you are reacting to this because I watched it not too long ago.
It is a crime that this video doesnt have enough views as it should. I hope this video gives it more attention
17:17 i have this exact same thought but in ultimate when tweek loses to steve
This was such a good movie
Does anyone know where the VOD is for this? I can't seem to find it.
I literally just saw that movie yesterday.
It would’ve been really funny if this video was also edited by Leon
When PudgyPanda beat Axe at Super Smash Con, that pushed the anti-wobbling side into a frenzy and ultimately it got banned. Though the whole sentiment of “random wobbler beats top player” definitely helped, but I wouldn’t say it was a mang0 exclusive, funny because he doesn’t mind wobbling compared to other players, and has said he would rather get wobbled than techchased cause he knows he’s dead. The vulnerability of fox is so true, big reason why I love playing against him as ICs.
We all collectively love Leon Massey
Sweet. Been wondering when Brawl and Melee vets would react to this. I love Leon's vids, they're fun. For this video though I really wanted to see some dual Vet opinions. Hoping M2k, Zero, Larry, etc cover. Cool Coney is the first to dip in.
Fuck I love smash history! I should go to a tournament one day
I appreciate how this video completely ends any discussion between melee vs brawl. Melee has always been and will always be a game that can be pushed further into infinity, whereas brawl was always destined to fail.
Pretty sure that bit about the UK was about King Charlie not the government. Though I thought he was talking about the government too at first as Rishi Sunak was also having the piss taken out of him recently for having a £250,000 pool that costs him £13,000 a year to heat and had to have the local power grid increase it's capacity specifically for his pool, while huge swathes of the country can't afford to eat.
The title be funky. Coney....why is the title so professional
11:08
He has headphones on, HE CAN'T HEAR US!
IC's is reasonably banned, but it's when you started hearing "oh woo yeah woo were the fastest funnest game ever since the start" that it's like okay c'mon now let's humble ourselves a bit, you know what it took to get here.
And acting like the last tournament I watched wasn't LTC that had like 3 sets of Jigglypuff Peach in top 8
Meta knight funny enough still lives in Ultimate because of top tiers that win by waiting for their opponent to try to play the game.
No way coney reacts to the skating game video next
This is such a goated video
Here's a stream idea that you can have for free: Host a spelling bee where all the words are completely made up but still follow conventional English structure, so the contestants have no way to memorize vocabulary and instead have to rely completely on their skill in spelling out various word sounds and combinations. Since there'd inevitably be guessing involved, give them three strikes per word. I think this would be very entertaining!
"conventional"
Lfg leon massey reaction. Hes honestly one of the greatest creators in this platform
This is great, but you might want to link the video in the description
Coney's finally embracing his inner UA-cam reactor
I have wanted Coney to watch Leon Massey since I saw Leon Massey
And then there's Smash's one and only queen... Bayo-fucking-neta.
I remember watching streams viewership go down when ice climbers was on stream. I think it make a a better Viewing experience more than it being broken
@2:10 is that Pet Shop?
11:04 how do coney do to advance frame by frame on a youtube video pls ?
ty
press . and ,🙏
Gibraltar will always fit in Apex’s tournament meta. Had 99% usage at one point.
11:02 OH God he can't hear you. He has airpods in!
8:46 esam literally looks like jake gyllenhall
yeah and in ultimate it's not really much of a punish to rolls. like people will still do it a bunch even at the top.
exactly
How come this video isn’t titled “Brawl Meta Knight VS Melee Fox”
14:41-14:58 I legit don't understand what he was trying to communicate. Does someone know?
I think that what coney is saying is that in smash 4, he disliked how he couldn't punish rolls, so when decaying dodges was revealed for ult, he thought it'd be good, but then the defensive maneuver just became using attacks and moving instead of rolling which is a whole new problem
ya
Oh NO! Falco cant hear us!
I thought it was going to be about tkd the triple laser god vs metaknight 😅 oh how I miss brawl
bro u could have linked the video
0:50 wasn't yoshi mid teir at least? since amsa in melee and promising in brawl but just not metaknight
He can't hear you he got Skull Candy's in
I was gonna say airpod buuuut
coney mentioned
There's a reason why modern brawl rankings are top 20 and not top 100.
Love you Coney, great video. #Toad
Fellas!
Fox was a kind king, allowing others to claim the spotlight
Meta knight, not so much
Axe and Plup crying are the reason wobbling got banned
Wobbling took no skill and it wasn’t fair. I wish you could wobble at least to 50
isn't rob like hero upsmash bad in brawl?
You should look at the comment I posted on his video. The one where I discuss another character who isn't in Smash Bros, but is still much greater and mightier than Fox McCloud could ever dream of being.
It might be enlightening to you.
leon massey is my goat
Leon Massey is a cool Figghting Game content creator!
NASB MENTIONED 🎉
Slap city betteerrrrrr
Boney
did coney realize he's popular enough to use his own name for clickbait
Ik you dont remember this but it was n0ne he had time to tweet while he was being wobbled it was banned like a week later
The thing that ruined Brawl is the overall mentality of “Play lame, win game.”
Coney has an Antz face ngl
Woble is dumb. Because it's literaly making ice climbers into neutral the character.
The desinc combos are still as good. But harder. So it's more about making them fairer. And not weaker.
14:50 strategically unsatisfactory cause it's all about them frames baby
Brawl would have been so much better if they had actual players playtest the game
Where’s bayonetta
I’m curious what the people who adamantly back wobbling being banned (would) feel about like Kazuya being banned as a character. It’s the same idea in the end; character is fully just based around one move (grab/EWGF) and they can kill you if you get hit by it at literally any percent which makes the game only based around not getting hit by that one thing with hugely skewed risk/reward (except it’s way more skewed for Kazuya, EWGF is near unpunishable on shield)
I can't believe M2K is the primary reason Meta Knight didn't get banned lol like that is legit unbelievable to me. If we had just told him to go fuck himself Brawl might still be thriving today. "I'll be really sad, I put a lot of time into him!" meanwhile being the supposed best player in the world. Laughable tbh. Makes me wonder if M2K was truly the best Brawl player in the world, or if he was just the best Meta Knight player, unafraid to do the scummy shit that others hesitated to do, and got heavily carried because of it. It's also crazy that Japan was even an excuse at all to justify it. Like who cares? Did Japanese players come to the states to play that often? I thought back in those times Smash wasn't nearly big enough to justify flying around the world for most people? Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember there being a pretty distinct difference between North America Smash scene and everywhere else's, and international things were few and far between, not really a big thing until Smash 4. Maybe my memories are just hazy but I do kind of remember it being pretty separated.
Wobbling getting banned for being a broken mechanic on a shit character vs Meta Knight staying legal despite EVERYTHING about him being broken is the perfect summarization of competitive Smash imo. But we all know it was just two crybabies throwing tantrums in different directions. Though I am partially biased against M2K, I'll admit. Ever since I saw that set where M2K gets KO'd in like the first 10 seconds of the match and gets mad at the opponent for "not respecting neutral" or some shit, then they restart and he does the exact same thing stone-faced and acting like he did nothing wrong, I've lost a lot of respect for him. I've been trying to find the video for like 30 minutes but I don't remember who the opponent was so no luck yet.
Istg you already posted this video like 2 months ago
coney reacts to??? who am i watching???
I had to put it at a faster speed to watch it, I get it is supposed to be a reaction vid but you cannot follow the narrative with the many cuts that make his pauses feel way too frequent.