Try these settings for yourself and let me know what you think! I wish there was more we could do with color on these cameras but someday (hopefully) we will all have 10-bit color in our Sony cameras!
I have been using this setting combination for my Sony a6300 for the last few months and I had a major improvement on the video quality since then. I used to think that what I am doing is wrong but at the same time decided to go with this setting due to the result I got. Your video is so helpful and I can confidently using this setting from now on.
Oh my god!! Is this THE Indy mogul?? I watched a video you did a million years ago about rotoscoping a lightsaber. I think I was…9 years old. I’m 26 now 😂
Maybe you’ll see this, maybe you won’t, but I wanted to thank you for being honest and coming clear about Sony’s colours. I absolutely hate them but I think the cameras and their technology are really good. Furthermore, the video you’ve uploaded here itself has really nice grading. I’ve noticed Sony’s issue is that it makes everything that’s black, more like it’s blue, and everything that’s white, more like it’s orange; worse still, is that almost all green and magenta tones caught by this camera are absurd to edit. This is not true on my Nikon RAWs, so I hope there are also ways of editing the camera that reflect the ethos of this video, but for photo as well (what I do mainly).
Great video dude! I have a similar fix where I still use s.gamut but I just crank up the saturation so that there is more to start with and it achieves a similar result of the colors not falling apart. I’m stoked to try this way though!
Your settings definitely seem to work the best especially when you are working in software like resolve and want to use color space transform. keeping everything at default pp7 but raising the saturation makes it extremely easy to de log your footage. everything stays coherent across the board. dunna already did it.
Oh nice! Just went to your channel and found the video. Very interesting and definitely helps! Would love to hear your thoughts after using this setup.
Ahsan Zafar Channel - the issue with that method (which I’ve tested thoroughly) is that I had to overexposed to the point where the highlight detail was completely lost in order to fix the blocky was. However, the way that I (and Caleb, and the original Leeming luts) have dealt with it allows us to keep more highlight detail without getting the blockyness in the shadows. It’s not perfect but it’s better than clipping the highlights all the time.
This video has made me feeling more like a nerd than anything else. I just spent the entire last night trying to find the right A6500 color setttings to take out a magenta cast in a used Kino Flo i bought.... and your intro (un-ironically) spoke to my exhausted soul
Kind of weird to post a comment three years after video release but just rewatched this to freshen up. I can't stress enough how clarifying this is. Initially oblivious to the consequence of 8-bit I tried to film and grade with the "fancy" S-gamut/log setting on my A6400. The result was horrendous. This is the way to go.
Gave this a go I was skeptical I’ll admit but... I will say it’s easy to grade and the color is incredibly accurate. Really don’t have to add any additional saturation either which is ideal. I noticed very minimal shift and skin tones were looking natural and pleasing.
I didn’t know you shoot Sony, man! Just switched to Sony from Canon, so I’m in the “watching lots of tutorials before actually shooting with my new camera”, phase…
Davinci Resolve Users - Use REC709 in Input color space while doing a color space transform for color correction. REC709 and ITU709 Matrix are the same thing.
Caleb you are a friggin live-saver. I'm an audio guy who started filming during Covid and have since gone through the whole Action Cam --> Budget A600 setup --> Upgraded A6400/ZV-E10 setup --> First FX30 setup process. I've shot SLOG2 from the start and even with custom white balance, using a greycard for exposure, zebras, false color on my Ninja V and all those little things you need to get just right, I still felt there was something off. This might just be my biggest facepalm moment hunting for reasons why but holy moly will I go through all my settings, luts and grading presets on the weekend 😀
Thanks for the video! PotatoJet mentioned that there are problems with AF with S-Log2 on the A6400 so I’ve been using HLG2. I’ll definitely be trying this setting and see if this affects AF in any way.
For me, using S-Log2 ITU709 Matrix messes with the hues, making skin pink. After playing around with Davinci Resolve, I find that adding a SMPTE-C Sony S-Log2 to Rec.709-A Rec.709 color space transform helps. Messing around with tone-mapping helps too. If that’s not enough, then I slightly push the hues to the negatives before the color space transform node
I cannot stress enough just how helpful this was! My video was not looking great (a7ii) but now it looks really rich in color! Thanks for the easy to follow guide :D
I think Cine 4 is the best balance if you’re not in a hi con setting where you need the SLog2 gamma curve. Still flat but enough colour information to do a nice grade in post. Using the Slog2 gamma is still a problem in some situations in an 8 bit camera.
He's going to tear it to shreds. First he will use his $1200 chart to show how off the primaries are and then how Caleb didn't use the color chart to properly fix luminance levels.
Whoaaaa I've never even heard of the ITU709 Matrix stuff before. I just default to the Standard setting on the a6400 cuz I'm impatient lol, but now I want to experiment w these settings! Thanks Caleb
I use sony a6400 for Twitch streaming, and this actually helped so much! I kept having overly bronzy patchy skin that looked like a bad fake tan, but this solved my issue and my skin now looks more even and soft. Thank you again!
Have you tried HLG3 with rec709 colour? Works out well for me personally. The hybrid log gamma is great because it's easy to grade given the linear responding curve from the lower to mid tones, but the highlights are treated like log for more dynamic range. It's super easy to grade, and has enough dynamic range to work with. Also, theoretically, setting it to rec709 colour gets it right in camera similar to itu matrix.
I use HLG2, over expose by 1 stop and I'm very happy with the results every time. In Premiere, just bring down the shadows and blacks a little, add a little contrast, adjust exposure slightly depending on the scene and that's it. Great results all the time.
@@dipopeters I agree. Also try HLG3 because your footage clips at 100, instead of HLG2's 95. Any noise advantages of HLG2 can be gained on HLG3 in post by simply crushing your darker areas of your image.
Absolute masterpiece. I love this cam. People want to talk me into buying a cannon but I really want to master this cam and I'm invested into it. Thank you for posting such a great video for us!
I'll give it a run, but so far I've literally never been let down by Cine2 + Still color + -7 detail... I'll change to Movie color sometimes for weddings, to cut down on color correction... HLG3 for client work that takes place mostly outdoors.
On a7III I use Neutral (-3 +3 -3) and Level 5 Dynamic Range Optimizer (DRO) during day time and Level 3 DRO during night time to maximize dynamic range. I find the footage is very pleasing and requires minimal post production. It is really close to the look of slog2/s.gamut footage + official sony LUT. Best part is you can use ISO100 instead of 800.
I tested this a little bit tonight and it looks pretty good and seems to grade really well. Will have to test a bit more. Thanks for the tip! Much appreciated!
I know this is old news for most by now, but for us ZV-E10 users still very relevant, so thank you for your efforts. However, in doing my own tests, I don't really understand the supposed benefits of S-Log2 in Rec 709. I agree that there are fundamental issues with S.Log2 in S-Gamut3.cine, but that seems to be in part a color mapping issue that isn't actually as severe in S-Gamut. Regardless, What I'm really asking is, how is S-Log2 in Rec 709 any more advantageous than, say, Cine1 or Cine2? Those at least use the entire breadth of the available luminance values. S-Log2, on the other hand, forces the base ISO up to 500 (on the ZV-E10) and ignores about the bottom 10% of luminance entirely (which makes total sense in 10 bit). So yes, it mostly avoids the added noise that way, but don't you lose that amount of rgb info as well? Because when converting to Rec 709 you essentially stretch 90% (or so) of the recorded signal to 100% again. I know I'm probably over-simplifying or not understanding the relationship between image information and sensor data. But practically speaking, am I not better off with a full range of rgb data from 0-255, captured without artificial signal boosting (i.e. higher ISO), in Cine1 (0-109% brightness at 125 ISO, recorded as r,g,b, 0,0,0-255,255,255) or Cine2 (0-100% at 100 ISO, same) than S-Log2 in any color space (0-106% at ISO 500, recorded as approx. 20,20,20-255,255,255)? And really, all I want is a robust profile for documentary shooting, where I can't be worrying about switching those settings when the light changes. That's a bit like changing film stock in mid-shoot.
This! This worked for me on the a7iii like a dream. And surprisingly I got even more pleasing results using the same principles in s-log3. Thanks again for all the good work you do.
i just tried it with some basic boosting of the saturation and lowering the mids and shadows and it looks great out of camera. It doesn't need much color correction.
I’ve been struggling with color in my videos it seems like forever now but I will definitely give this a try today! Thank you so much for the information such a great video!
Hey Caleb, thank you for the recommendation! After watching this I have since tested both colour profiles in the same scene with the same lighting and exposure settings. However the differences I found with S.gamut3.cine vs ITU709matrix weren't nearly as noticeable as shown here. Perhaps it's most apparent when shooting against a neutral grey background shown here, but in my case even with the saturation cranked to the same visually in post, the differences were almost negligible without boosting the exposure in post, at that point I could see a difference in boosted shadows. It's super frustrating as a wedding filmmaker trying to dissect and test all of the colour profiles with the Sony a7iii. Transitioning from photographer to filmmaker it's ridiculous how handicapped I feel creatively when shooting in 8 bit video compared to shooting RAW... I've found after many shoots that I can get amazing colour and grading latitude when shooting Slog2 s.gamut3cine 4K in nice lighting, but I run into huge issues when shooting 60p in mixed indoor lighting (still properly overexposing by one stop to maintain better signal to noise ratio). Hopefully now that I'm shooting in ITU709 I will see a tangible difference in worse lighting conditions, but I cannot wait until I upgrade to the A7siii and can shoot slog3 without worrying about the bitrate having a stroke.
Caleb, I cant tell you how much I appreciate you putting this out. I was about to spend a couple days doing tests with all the different color spaces to figure out a better option than the sgamut because I found it was making my videos look too desaturated . Was really not looking forward to it, so im super thankful you put this out just in time 🙏🏼
I always wonder about this question too, I can never figure out the white balance when it's on a log format, so I set the white balance before I change to the log format. But I'm only a beginner so I would love to see some more answers to this question.
@@anarabicdp It just depends how you want the shot to look... warmer, neutral, or cooler. If you are using lights, you generally would match the white balance to the light temperature being used, unless you wanted to change it in-camera to look different. I don't think there is an answer to the question, because it all depends on what you want the shot to look like and how your lights are set up. If you are shooting raw, you can change the white balance in post.
@@anarabicdp Beginners should not be shooting log. Figure out exposure and white balance and composition and color correction in post first before trying to get the maximum possible dynamic range from your files.
Thank you! would love for you to do a deep dive in 'getting it right in camera' with the rest of those sony settings (e.g Black Gamma)... as you say.... the video files are just too fragile after written, so writing them right in the camera can produce loads of advantages...
Thank you so much for this! I had my Color Mode set to S-Gamut (as advised by another Sony owner and cinematographer) and couldn't figure out why the colors were so flat and muted. I figured I could just fix them in post. So glad I watched this before I started shooting with my new Sony!
Finally I got the look that Ive always wanted, thank you sir for sharing such a valuable infos in a short and easy to understand video. You got my respect.
Always informative. I think I’ve seen you talk about these settings before (maybe on a live stream) but very helpful and the examples perfectly illustrate the points.
I’ve been using HLG profiles ever since gerald’s video and it always seems to have a green tint. I even went and purchased Leeming lut but even the lut fails to correct the green tint. At times the shadows become majenta and I could see a broad inconsistency between the clips which led me to painstakingly correct each clip. Now after the slog 2 with itu 709, I don’t see any green/magenta shifts atleast as prominent in the case of HLG profiles. I did several tests on different lighting conditions and even the skin tones fairly align well. Finally i feel free from innefective correction luts and long correction process. I guess it’s time to move on. The tests are carried on a Sony a7iii
This will be controversial ! But I've found the putting DRO on 3/4 , not using a picture profile, getting the white balance correct and exposing for the highlights (not blowing them out) looks equally cinematic and the colours are good! And usually with a small grade to warm up the shadows it looks very good.
Great video bruh ! I’ve been using cine4 on my a6500 but I sure will give this a try. Please do make a video in the future on how to expose for these settings and what settings to use in low light . But still very informative . Thanks !
Brooooooooooooo! Do you recommend S-Gamut3.Cine with Slog3 on the A7S III? Or do you still use 709? The A7S III help guide has the same fine print. I currently use the default PP8 and the Sony LUT to correct the footage before working, BUT, for creative projects I would love to be able to do my own curves adjustment and just use a Saturation slider to taste instead like you mentioned in this video! Gimme the skinny!
I am getting incredible results with no color grading needed using HLG2 BT2020 with Details set to -7. Sony A7C. No color bending - super clean. Tried SLogs before and hated after color grading, which produced crushed blacks, noise, and color bending clearly visible when exposure was changing.
Just got a A6600 and love the new grip and battery from my A6400. With my ND filters I get weird magenta and green tones so I used your tips for perfect colors with the video passport and now I will use these new tips. With the 8 bit codec...it seems a lot of people don’t prefer the SLog and I have some issues with colors in HLG which was supposed to correct these a lot of issues. I heard HLG was the best too but maybe that is only true for 10 bit. I will try these new tips since I currently just shoot with a slightly desaturated standard profile with sharpening turned down and it seems very easy to work with and I only have to fix the green and magenta some,
Thank you so much! I'm shocked, how much better my footage looks with ITU 709 now! I just wish I had found this advice earlier. I shot a whole music video with s-gamut with a lot of water in the background, which looks like a big artefact-mess.
So i just past golden hour and went out with my A6400 to see if this was true.....and it is. The color grade and correction i got with S.Gaumut still looked "good", but when i brought in the clip in ITU.709 Matrix and tweaked and graded that? It was absolutely night and day.
I have tried your setting today and .... god this is the result is amazing!! I also have some question about this setting, shu I overexposure for 2 stop as usual? it seems like I can expose like CINE and HLG Picture profile.
Some saturation and contrast and u good to go ... but u should have a spot on white balance to do this or u correct it in post if u weren't off soo much
I could do that in a future video but I usually just do a quick curves adjustment to correct exposure/constant and add a little saturation. Maybe tweak skin color as I'm usually too red.
@@dslrvideoshooter Thank you for quick reply on this. I would do some testing on my side. I have a6300+a6500+BMPCC4K to match sometimes so I still need to do some testing and this look for a nice starting point !
Very nice ! always used S-Log 2 and S-Gamut3 but I cranked up the saturation to avoid artefacting and achived satisfying results with it. I haven't tried your tip and will definitely give a go. Edit : I just tried it and found much more artifacting for roughly the same level of saturation with your your solution than using Slog2 with S-Gamut3 and adding +32 in saturation on the A7 III. It would need more testing though, with more robust tools and constant light/scene to be sure.
It's not really true, though. It just means consumer Sonys have a smaller portion of s-gamut they can use. You can use the sgamut.cine ones that were explicitly designed for them instead.
Are you saying that the new A7Siii has the proper S-Gamut? Or we don’t have the information at this point? (Regardless of the improvements with Color science and 10bits)
I googled for the details on the A7SIII and it says the same thing! Here is the help guide for the A7SIII and scroll down and you'll read "S-Gamut, S-Gamut3.Cine, and S-Gamut3 are color spaces exclusive to Sony. However, this camera's S-Gamut setting does not support the whole S-Gamut color space; it is a setting to achieve a color reproduction equivalent to S-Gamut." Here is the help page on picture profiles for the new camera helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2010/v1/en/contents/TP0002920003.html?search=picture%20profile
noticed that crazy magenta shift in MOMENT's A7C review that just went up. seems it may still be an issue in the new models too... but oddly not the a7siii.
Yeah 10-bit is the real fix. Without it, the magenta issues are going to stick around. Unfortunately the A7s III still has that fake S-Gamut issue which blows.
wow, I always use the S-Gamut color space and it gives a lot of banding most part of the time, thank you so much for this tutorial, I'll try your recommendation when I go out and record something
Jesussss, this helped out so much man. Does this also help by reducing noise in the footage? It seems like I’m not getting as much noise in my footage now, if any. Idk, maybe its just me?…
Oh my god i needed this so bad. Ive been struggling so hard with those weird color issues after grading, i was about ready to sell my 6500. Can't wait to try these settings out this week.
So Mr. We real need that so how can we get the budget camera...course all this look expensive and the camera your using are look good...I real like it!
Try these settings for yourself and let me know what you think! I wish there was more we could do with color on these cameras but someday (hopefully) we will all have 10-bit color in our Sony cameras!
Sir can u tell me the light u used behind ur right side ? Three light model ?
I have been using this setting combination for my Sony a6300 for the last few months and I had a major improvement on the video quality since then. I used to think that what I am doing is wrong but at the same time decided to go with this setting due to the result I got. Your video is so helpful and I can confidently using this setting from now on.
I really have good results converting the slog2 and s-gamut in DaVinci with "color space transform".
May I ask if you recommend changing setting A7r iii boosting colors and boosting saturation +32? Other you tubers are recommending this
Hi can you give me a camera please because I have no money to buy my own camera
Wow! The S-Gamut results were really surprising. I'll remember that forever. Thanks Caleb!
same!
Oh my god!! Is this THE Indy mogul?? I watched a video you did a million years ago about rotoscoping a lightsaber. I think I was…9 years old. I’m 26 now 😂
What about HLG vs S-Log
you've saved so many future projects of mine because of this, ive always hated how my colors fell apart, and now i know why, thank you
Maybe you’ll see this, maybe you won’t, but I wanted to thank you for being honest and coming clear about Sony’s colours. I absolutely hate them but I think the cameras and their technology are really good. Furthermore, the video you’ve uploaded here itself has really nice grading. I’ve noticed Sony’s issue is that it makes everything that’s black, more like it’s blue, and everything that’s white, more like it’s orange; worse still, is that almost all green and magenta tones caught by this camera are absurd to edit. This is not true on my Nikon RAWs, so I hope there are also ways of editing the camera that reflect the ethos of this video, but for photo as well (what I do mainly).
Great video dude! I have a similar fix where I still use s.gamut but I just crank up the saturation so that there is more to start with and it achieves a similar result of the colors not falling apart. I’m stoked to try this way though!
Your settings definitely seem to work the best especially when you are working in software like resolve and want to use color space transform. keeping everything at default pp7 but raising the saturation makes it extremely easy to de log your footage. everything stays coherent across the board. dunna already did it.
fix to your blochyness problem is simple just overexpose and use a slog2 to 709 lut thats it.
Oh nice! Just went to your channel and found the video. Very interesting and definitely helps! Would love to hear your thoughts after using this setup.
Ahsan Zafar Channel - the issue with that method (which I’ve tested thoroughly) is that I had to overexposed to the point where the highlight detail was completely lost in order to fix the blocky was. However, the way that I (and Caleb, and the original Leeming luts) have dealt with it allows us to keep more highlight detail without getting the blockyness in the shadows. It’s not perfect but it’s better than clipping the highlights all the time.
DSLR Video Shooter - yeah I’ll definitely let you know!!
This video has made me feeling more like a nerd than anything else.
I just spent the entire last night trying to find the right A6500 color setttings to take out a magenta cast in a used Kino Flo i bought.... and your intro (un-ironically) spoke to my exhausted soul
I started with Cine2 based on recommendations, but I’ll be sure to give this setting a try!
Honestly, don't. Stick with Cine 2 and avoid the artifacts inherent with 8-bit log formats.
Cine2 - Cinema and -10 saturation -7 Detail, I found it the best, and I tried A LOT.
@@Cadence24 was waiting for some follow up, like on how you grade this recommendation of yours sir on dr16
@@Cadence24 have any examples I can see?!
@@Cadence24 you found a good Dinamic Range with that settings?
Genius! This fixed my looonggg issue with slog2 color correcting. Thank you Caleb!!
Kind of weird to post a comment three years after video release but just rewatched this to freshen up.
I can't stress enough how clarifying this is.
Initially oblivious to the consequence of 8-bit I tried to film and grade with the "fancy" S-gamut/log setting on my A6400. The result was horrendous. This is the way to go.
Gave this a go I was skeptical I’ll admit but... I will say it’s easy to grade and the color is incredibly accurate. Really don’t have to add any additional saturation either which is ideal. I noticed very minimal shift and skin tones were looking natural and pleasing.
I didn’t know you shoot Sony, man! Just switched to Sony from Canon, so I’m in the “watching lots of tutorials before actually shooting with my new camera”, phase…
Do you still need to convert it to rec709 when using ITU709 in sLog2?
@@thomasshakelton Did you find an answer to that?
@@kima17k anybody?
Davinci Resolve Users - Use REC709 in Input color space while doing a color space transform for color correction. REC709 and ITU709 Matrix are the same thing.
I was looking for that for 2 hours :)
wait really? so I dont even need a cst unless im using a lut? thanks
Thank u. REC 709, Slog 2 -> REC 709, REC 709A right?
Caleb you are a friggin live-saver. I'm an audio guy who started filming during Covid and have since gone through the whole Action Cam --> Budget A600 setup --> Upgraded A6400/ZV-E10 setup --> First FX30 setup process. I've shot SLOG2 from the start and even with custom white balance, using a greycard for exposure, zebras, false color on my Ninja V and all those little things you need to get just right, I still felt there was something off. This might just be my biggest facepalm moment hunting for reasons why but holy moly will I go through all my settings, luts and grading presets on the weekend 😀
Thanks for the video! PotatoJet mentioned that there are problems with AF with S-Log2 on the A6400 so I’ve been using HLG2. I’ll definitely be trying this setting and see if this affects AF in any way.
For me, using S-Log2 ITU709 Matrix messes with the hues, making skin pink. After playing around with Davinci Resolve, I find that adding a SMPTE-C Sony S-Log2 to Rec.709-A Rec.709 color space transform helps. Messing around with tone-mapping helps too. If that’s not enough, then I slightly push the hues to the negatives before the color space transform node
I have owned this camera maybe 5 years and after this video I am for the first time happy with the colours- thank you so much !!
I cannot stress enough just how helpful this was! My video was not looking great (a7ii) but now it looks really rich in color! Thanks for the easy to follow guide :D
I think Cine 4 is the best balance if you’re not in a hi con setting where you need the SLog2 gamma curve. Still flat but enough colour information to do a nice grade in post. Using the Slog2 gamma is still a problem in some situations in an 8 bit camera.
THIS WAS SO HELPFUL!
Can u pls make a video on how to use a x rite color checker passport video for fuji cameras in davinci resolve
I want to see Gerald Undone talk about HLG vs Caleb's recommendations now----
He's going to tear it to shreds. First he will use his $1200 chart to show how off the primaries are and then how Caleb didn't use the color chart to properly fix luminance levels.
rsmith02 after going off on how the dynamic range in the gamma curve is inferior even in 8-bit
Rocco Richardson I’ve been using heads settings since the video came out. Works amazing in my fs5. Not so much in my a6600
With my A7III I shoot HLG2 in PP10 and color mode 709. And overexpose by around +1. I got those tips from Jason Vong and really dig it. Looks great!
@@RoccoRichardson same here
Whoaaaa I've never even heard of the ITU709 Matrix stuff before. I just default to the Standard setting on the a6400 cuz I'm impatient lol, but now I want to experiment w these settings! Thanks Caleb
I use sony a6400 for Twitch streaming, and this actually helped so much! I kept having overly bronzy patchy skin that looked like a bad fake tan, but this solved my issue and my skin now looks more even and soft. Thank you again!
Have you tried HLG3 with rec709 colour? Works out well for me personally. The hybrid log gamma is great because it's easy to grade given the linear responding curve from the lower to mid tones, but the highlights are treated like log for more dynamic range. It's super easy to grade, and has enough dynamic range to work with. Also, theoretically, setting it to rec709 colour gets it right in camera similar to itu matrix.
I use HLG2, over expose by 1 stop and I'm very happy with the results every time. In Premiere, just bring down the shadows and blacks a little, add a little contrast, adjust exposure slightly depending on the scene and that's it. Great results all the time.
@@dipopeters I agree. Also try HLG3 because your footage clips at 100, instead of HLG2's 95. Any noise advantages of HLG2 can be gained on HLG3 in post by simply crushing your darker areas of your image.
I, personally color-blind (not sensitive to colors, I mean), appreciate this information very much. Thank you Caleb.
Caleb - thank you for giving such simple explanations on gamma and color modes. Never understood this before until now.
dude same!!
@@a02tony09Same
Absolute masterpiece. I love this cam. People want to talk me into buying a cannon but I really want to master this cam and I'm invested into it. Thank you for posting such a great video for us!
I tried this a few weeks ago and it’s really the best way to shoot with the 8-bit profiles... no color gamut correction needed!
Ah ok so if i shot in ITU709 I don’t need to convert to rec709 in Post?
I'll give it a run, but so far I've literally never been let down by Cine2 + Still color + -7 detail... I'll change to Movie color sometimes for weddings, to cut down on color correction... HLG3 for client work that takes place mostly outdoors.
Those are the same settings I use- much harder to screw up than temperamental s-log.
I tried this trick and find other flavor 709 like still and pro also work, but with less magenta.
cine2 has far less dynamic range
@@petrub27 Bogus. S-Log has 1/2 to 1 stops more, at most.
@@wolfieseven2360 dream on
Finally, I thought you were never gonna do a video like this
Wish I had this knowledge when I was still shooting with A7sII. For the life of me always found grading the footage impossible!
“This is where the plot thickens...”
Love DSLR Video Shooter. So good. So so good.
I've been trying to figure out S-log for 2 years... and never liked the results. I can't wait to try this!
On a7III I use Neutral (-3 +3 -3) and Level 5 Dynamic Range Optimizer (DRO) during day time and Level 3 DRO during night time to maximize dynamic range. I find the footage is very pleasing and requires minimal post production. It is really close to the look of slog2/s.gamut footage + official sony LUT. Best part is you can use ISO100 instead of 800.
I thought I was the only one that done this. Looks so close to LOG and the DRO is a life saver and helps prevent clipping highlights
I tested this a little bit tonight and it looks pretty good and seems to grade really well. Will have to test a bit more. Thanks for the tip! Much appreciated!
Very good comment and suggestion! Definitely better than having to ETTR with SLOG, and more consistent results.
What do you mean by Neutral?
how do you expose for this one (zebra levels?) and color grade (u still use conversion lut or manually adjust it thru curves?)
Ok, this, instead of pushing the saturation up in S-Gamut plus the freedom to crank the ISO is game changing.
Do we still have to overexpose when shooting s-log2 using these settings?
For low noise yes!
@@dslrvideoshooter How do you know how much to overexpose by?
Thankyou for this question
I know this is old news for most by now, but for us ZV-E10 users still very relevant, so thank you for your efforts. However, in doing my own tests, I don't really understand the supposed benefits of S-Log2 in Rec 709. I agree that there are fundamental issues with S.Log2 in S-Gamut3.cine, but that seems to be in part a color mapping issue that isn't actually as severe in S-Gamut. Regardless, What I'm really asking is, how is S-Log2 in Rec 709 any more advantageous than, say, Cine1 or Cine2? Those at least use the entire breadth of the available luminance values. S-Log2, on the other hand, forces the base ISO up to 500 (on the ZV-E10) and ignores about the bottom 10% of luminance entirely (which makes total sense in 10 bit). So yes, it mostly avoids the added noise that way, but don't you lose that amount of rgb info as well? Because when converting to Rec 709 you essentially stretch 90% (or so) of the recorded signal to 100% again. I know I'm probably over-simplifying or not understanding the relationship between image information and sensor data. But practically speaking, am I not better off with a full range of rgb data from 0-255, captured without artificial signal boosting (i.e. higher ISO), in Cine1 (0-109% brightness at 125 ISO, recorded as r,g,b, 0,0,0-255,255,255) or Cine2 (0-100% at 100 ISO, same) than S-Log2 in any color space (0-106% at ISO 500, recorded as approx. 20,20,20-255,255,255)? And really, all I want is a robust profile for documentary shooting, where I can't be worrying about switching those settings when the light changes. That's a bit like changing film stock in mid-shoot.
I’ll vouch for calebs camera guides any day. I used one for the Panasonic g7 and the Sony A7iii. Incredibly helpful and thorough. Super valuable
This! This worked for me on the a7iii like a dream. And surprisingly I got even more pleasing results using the same principles in s-log3. Thanks again for all the good work you do.
i just tried it with some basic boosting of the saturation and lowering the mids and shadows and it looks great out of camera. It doesn't need much color correction.
I’ve been struggling with color in my videos it seems like forever now but I will definitely give this a try today! Thank you so much for the information such a great video!
This video just changed me life. You are THE MAN.
Wow... even painted white, I hadn't seen a ColorTran MiniBrute 6 in years!
Subject at hand... thank you for an excellent series of videos!
Hey Caleb, thank you for the recommendation! After watching this I have since tested both colour profiles in the same scene with the same lighting and exposure settings. However the differences I found with S.gamut3.cine vs ITU709matrix weren't nearly as noticeable as shown here. Perhaps it's most apparent when shooting against a neutral grey background shown here, but in my case even with the saturation cranked to the same visually in post, the differences were almost negligible without boosting the exposure in post, at that point I could see a difference in boosted shadows.
It's super frustrating as a wedding filmmaker trying to dissect and test all of the colour profiles with the Sony a7iii. Transitioning from photographer to filmmaker it's ridiculous how handicapped I feel creatively when shooting in 8 bit video compared to shooting RAW... I've found after many shoots that I can get amazing colour and grading latitude when shooting Slog2 s.gamut3cine 4K in nice lighting, but I run into huge issues when shooting 60p in mixed indoor lighting (still properly overexposing by one stop to maintain better signal to noise ratio).
Hopefully now that I'm shooting in ITU709 I will see a tangible difference in worse lighting conditions, but I cannot wait until I upgrade to the A7siii and can shoot slog3 without worrying about the bitrate having a stroke.
Where can I find a good tutorial on grading this specific setup?
Caleb, I cant tell you how much I appreciate you putting this out.
I was about to spend a couple days doing tests with all the different color spaces to figure out a better option than the sgamut because I found it was making my videos look too desaturated .
Was really not looking forward to it, so im super thankful you put this out just in time 🙏🏼
How about white balance setting, tq
What do you mean? White balance entirely depends on what you want from the shot. It is more related to your lighting setup, rather than color.
@@NirnBootMod ohh ok tq 👍 👍
I always wonder about this question too, I can never figure out the white balance when it's on a log format, so I set the white balance before I change to the log format. But I'm only a beginner so I would love to see some more answers to this question.
@@anarabicdp It just depends how you want the shot to look... warmer, neutral, or cooler. If you are using lights, you generally would match the white balance to the light temperature being used, unless you wanted to change it in-camera to look different. I don't think there is an answer to the question, because it all depends on what you want the shot to look like and how your lights are set up. If you are shooting raw, you can change the white balance in post.
@@anarabicdp Beginners should not be shooting log. Figure out exposure and white balance and composition and color correction in post first before trying to get the maximum possible dynamic range from your files.
But what about HLG in 709?😦
Thank you! would love for you to do a deep dive in 'getting it right in camera' with the rest of those sony settings (e.g Black Gamma)... as you say.... the video files are just too fragile after written, so writing them right in the camera can produce loads of advantages...
Thank you so much for this! I had my Color Mode set to S-Gamut (as advised by another Sony owner and cinematographer) and couldn't figure out why the colors were so flat and muted. I figured I could just fix them in post. So glad I watched this before I started shooting with my new Sony!
Wow, what a helpful video! I am definitely going to try this, thank you so much! You earned a sub.
Caleb your the man, always has the right answer my favorite and first Film Channel I’ve ever Subscribed to!!!!
Finally I got the look that Ive always wanted, thank you sir for sharing such a valuable infos in a short and easy to understand video. You got my respect.
Always informative. I think I’ve seen you talk about these settings before (maybe on a live stream) but very helpful and the examples perfectly illustrate the points.
How y'all think this rates with Gerald Undone's recommendation of using HLG3 with BT2020 color (or Cine 2 with Cinema color, as plan B)?
I have PP2 with Caleb's setup (mostly outdoors) and PP3 with Gerald's setup (indoors)
and PP1 with make art now's lowlight settings
@@reddotmedia9888 And the pp5 ofJames matheus for cine 4 profile? Does anybody has tried this on a 6400?
I’ve been using HLG profiles ever since gerald’s video and it always seems to have a green tint. I even went and purchased Leeming lut but even the lut fails to correct the green tint. At times the shadows become majenta and I could see a broad inconsistency between the clips which led me to painstakingly correct each clip.
Now after the slog 2 with itu 709, I don’t see any green/magenta shifts atleast as prominent in the case of HLG profiles. I did several tests on different lighting conditions and even the skin tones fairly align well.
Finally i feel free from innefective correction luts and long correction process. I guess it’s time to move on.
The tests are carried on a Sony a7iii
This will be controversial ! But I've found the putting DRO on 3/4 , not using a picture profile, getting the white balance correct and exposing for the highlights (not blowing them out) looks equally cinematic and the colours are good! And usually with a small grade to warm up the shadows it looks very good.
Hey Caleb, do you also overexpose two stops? Greeting Arthur
With ITU709 Matrix do you still ned a lut to convert to rec709?
You’re AWESOME, Caleb! Always bringing the best tips to light. Let us know when you’re going to release the Creator’s Guide! 😁
That is next on the list! Going to be a beast of a guide!
DSLR Video Shooter Can’t wait 😍 really looking forward to it! Stoked to soak up information from ya!
I don't know anything about i cameras,but I trust you to guide me . Thank you for the content
Great video bruh ! I’ve been using cine4 on my a6500 but I sure will give this a try. Please do make a video in the future on how to expose for these settings and what settings to use in low light . But still very informative . Thanks !
Brooooooooooooo! Do you recommend S-Gamut3.Cine with Slog3 on the A7S III? Or do you still use 709? The A7S III help guide has the same fine print.
I currently use the default PP8 and the Sony LUT to correct the footage before working, BUT, for creative projects I would love to be able to do my own curves adjustment and just use a Saturation slider to taste instead like you mentioned in this video! Gimme the skinny!
I am getting incredible results with no color grading needed using HLG2 BT2020 with Details set to -7. Sony A7C. No color bending - super clean. Tried SLogs before and hated after color grading, which produced crushed blacks, noise, and color bending clearly visible when exposure was changing.
Caleb's thumbnails are always on point 👌 (and it's totally not because of the bald head....). Love the content Caleb 😁😁
Thanks Jeff!
Just got a A6600 and love the new grip and battery from my A6400. With my ND filters I get weird magenta and green tones so I used your tips for perfect colors with the video passport and now I will use these new tips. With the 8 bit codec...it seems a lot of people don’t prefer the SLog and I have some issues with colors in HLG which was supposed to correct these a lot of issues. I heard HLG was the best too but maybe that is only true for 10 bit. I will try these new tips since I currently just shoot with a slightly desaturated standard profile with sharpening turned down and it seems very easy to work with and I only have to fix the green and magenta some,
Thank you so much! I'm shocked, how much better my footage looks with ITU 709 now! I just wish I had found this advice earlier. I shot a whole music video with s-gamut with a lot of water in the background, which looks like a big artefact-mess.
So i just past golden hour and went out with my A6400 to see if this was true.....and it is. The color grade and correction i got with S.Gaumut still looked "good", but when i brought in the clip in ITU.709 Matrix and tweaked and graded that? It was absolutely night and day.
I have tried your setting today and .... god this is the result is amazing!!
I also have some question about this setting, shu I overexposure for 2 stop as usual? it seems like I can expose like CINE and HLG Picture profile.
Can you make a recommendation for Picture Profiles on Sony if using these bodies for Live-Streaming? Aka, no post.
+1 ...would really love a profile config for live streaming!
@@jordanettinger2500 thanks for the tip!
What about during the night? Still works fine?
And when light changes?
Thanks
Thanks for the great video! It's so valuable to be able to get your high levels of experience distilled down!
In this specific case, are you able to share with us the colorgrading process for ITU709 Matrix that you use please.
Some saturation and contrast and u good to go ... but u should have a spot on white balance to do this or u correct it in post if u weren't off soo much
I could do that in a future video but I usually just do a quick curves adjustment to correct exposure/constant and add a little saturation. Maybe tweak skin color as I'm usually too red.
@@ZikoProfessional Thanks m8 !
@@dslrvideoshooter Thank you for quick reply on this. I would do some testing on my side. I have a6300+a6500+BMPCC4K to match sometimes so I still need to do some testing and this look for a nice starting point !
@@JasonG.00 glad to help
Im using the ITU709 Matrix with cine2 and i love the result
You can increase saturation manually for whatever color mode you use
Glad to see a new video. Especially recently when you were less active.
Getting back in the saddle!
More active on watching others content,(gerald undone and others).
And in this way they looks like our family members.
Tried this on the new A7C and I think it looks great! Thanks for the tips!
What’s the light in the background!!
Wow, that was super helpful! I had been boosting my saturation by customizing the PP with S-Gamut3, but this makes more sense.
S-gamut 3 cine is actually made for this purpose. Keep doing that.
Very nice ! always used S-Log 2 and S-Gamut3 but I cranked up the saturation to avoid artefacting and achived satisfying results with it. I haven't tried your tip and will definitely give a go.
Edit : I just tried it and found much more artifacting for roughly the same level of saturation with your your solution than using Slog2 with S-Gamut3 and adding +32 in saturation on the A7 III. It would need more testing though, with more robust tools and constant light/scene to be sure.
Sony is like “crap he found the fine print” .. super interesting about S-Gamut
😂
It's not really true, though. It just means consumer Sonys have a smaller portion of s-gamut they can use. You can use the sgamut.cine ones that were explicitly designed for them instead.
I wonder if the same S-Gamut hoodwink applies for the FS-5
Are you saying that the new A7Siii has the proper S-Gamut? Or we don’t have the information at this point? (Regardless of the improvements with Color science and 10bits)
I googled for the details on the A7SIII and it says the same thing!
Here is the help guide for the A7SIII and scroll down and you'll read "S-Gamut, S-Gamut3.Cine, and S-Gamut3 are color spaces exclusive to Sony. However, this camera's S-Gamut setting does not support the whole S-Gamut color space; it is a setting to achieve a color reproduction equivalent to S-Gamut."
Here is the help page on picture profiles for the new camera helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2010/v1/en/contents/TP0002920003.html?search=picture%20profile
Same issues on the A7s III :-( But 10-bit helps A LOT. Video showing a comparison soon!
Super helpful! Was wondering why my a7iii footage was breaking apart
thanks! colors look so much better and livelier right off the camera!
Does that picture profile adjusted work for the a6300
noticed that crazy magenta shift in MOMENT's A7C review that just went up. seems it may still be an issue in the new models too... but oddly not the a7siii.
Yeah 10-bit is the real fix. Without it, the magenta issues are going to stick around. Unfortunately the A7s III still has that fake S-Gamut issue which blows.
Awesome video and tips. A quick question. How do you expose for it? +1? +2? +0.7?
Amazing stuff! love the channel and the great content as I am getting more and more into video.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! so easy to understand and helped me out!
Great video, really helpful, especially for someone quite new to video like me. You explained it in a way even I can understand! Thanks!
How does one go about exposing for this PP set up ?
I just tried your settings on my a6400. Looks great. And I mainly adjusted contrast.
wow, I always use the S-Gamut color space and it gives a lot of banding most part of the time, thank you so much for this tutorial, I'll try your recommendation when I go out and record something
I always wondered why it did this. The banding was horrible when I would try to grade, Ill give this a try!
The banding is from 8-bit. If you must shoot log use the s gamut 3 Cine instead.
so helpful! Thanks for making complex color science simple.
Jesussss, this helped out so much man. Does this also help by reducing noise in the footage? It seems like I’m not getting as much noise in my footage now, if any. Idk, maybe its just me?…
I'll be super interested in S-Log3 on the Sony A7s3
Oh my god i needed this so bad. Ive been struggling so hard with those weird color issues after grading, i was about ready to sell my 6500. Can't wait to try these settings out this week.
I think the color science changed after 2018. Think this will still apply to cameras with the old color science?
Try Cine 2/Still or Cine 2/ movie instead. I use the a6500 as well- great camera!
rsmith02 ever tried cine2 pro?
Dude i dont have a Sony camera but the way you explained everything about the colors its really interesting that i just watched the whole video xD
This guy makes me feel stupid every time one of his fixes work beautifully
So Mr. We real need that so how can we get the budget camera...course all this look expensive and the camera your using are look good...I real like it!