Super Efficient Graphite Dry Cell Hydrogen Generator
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- If you want to have a look at those special videos become a member and join by clicking this link / @thinkingandtinkering
The paper i reffered to is A systematic study on electroyltic production of hydrogen gas by using graphite as an electrode - DOI 10.1590/51516-14392013005000153
You can also buy my books and materials for your own experiments from our webshop at secure.working...
Double thumbs up.
Neoprene gaskets can be substituted with cheap easy to cut pvc shower pan liner that one can buy from a local large hardware store. And pvc holds up exelent to sodium and potasium hydroxides. but pvc does not hold up well to a lot of heat so one needs to use very efficient low 2v or less per cell. Also, one may try various heat dissipation methods.
Three more thing to consider.
1) Excessive amps per sq area will make lots of gas bubbles that may aggressively lead to early graphite plate deterioration. One may aim for more plate area with a lower amp per sq area. I dont have an amp per sq area to recomend shooting for. That may require experimentation.
2) gas build up at the top will reduce the plate surface area submerged in electrolyte. If each sq area were thought of as a resistor allowing a certain amount of current, then doubling the area halfs the effective resistance like two resistors in parallel.
3) gas bubbles on the plates and in solution between the plates reduce the effective area through which current can be conducted through the electrolyte.
Way to mitigate issues two and three is to circulating electrolyte with a pump pushing gases and electrolyte out of the cells. Maybe orentate the cell to have one corner facing up and the gas discharge hole at the top and an electrolyte refill hole at the bottom corner.
Other ideas to I've seen people do and may spark interest.
1) Magnets. I suspect magnetic fields transverse to the flow of current can induce the electrolyte to move move at 90 degrees to both the magnetic field and the direction of current (along the the surface of a plate), and that this electrolyte magnetohydrodynamic flow can help break bubbles free from the surface of the electrodes helping maximize the active electrode surface area.
2) People have used ultrasonic transducers to break bubbles from the surface more quickly. Although, I suspect it may speek breaking down the electrodes.
3) I've seen people use a vacuum pressure to expand the gasses presumably this helps bring the gasses out of solution faster but I'm not sure how much it helps maximizing active plate surface area with expanded bubbles between the plates, and expanded gas does not mean more gas production.
lot of info - cheers mate
Nice, that is a convincing demonstration. You just need to remind people that the gas produced must be used immediately, because in my part of the world there was a guy who put it into a tank then used it to power a brush cutter for maintaining his garden. His death was sudden, very loud and, rather colorful.
lol - I am, and sorry for this, a firm believer in Darwin awards. If you are going to do stuff inform yourself
"These things are expensive", oh dear Robert is on a mission to put another industry on its head :-)
lol - I believe in the democracy of science mate
Martin It obvious he's getting to close for comfort.
@@ThinkingandTinkering That's what Stan Meyers thought with his water powered dune buggy.
Using power to make a little bit of energy . Power in power out . No savings . I made a larger wet cell for my diesel truck when fuel went to almost $5 a gallon . It made hyd gas . And ... My milage per gallon dropped 1/2 a mile per gallon .
People have made very large cells run off 120 volts and the amount produced was barely enough to run a small push lawnmower engine . And not run well . So ...let me know when a cell is made to replace a auto engine and work as well .
This is replacing nothing . Just fact .
@@boracay12 Hi, perhaps you could review the diesel mechanics in Perth WA Australia who retro fit there kits to mining company rigs. They boast 25% improvement. I have no experience with it.
A larger mining company over there Fortescue Mining has gone away from oil reliance too. Interested to see how these billion dollar companies are doing it. I don't think they are in the time wasting business.
Robert... good to see some of this technology coming back around. Let's hope it's not suppressed by the oil companies again like before. I had a 12 cell pro-built 'dry cell' setup in a rebuilt 1971 VW Beetle. Also had a PWM controlled DC to DC power supply to regulate voltage and current from the battery. Using sodium hydroxide for a catalyst with water, I was producing around 3.5 - 4 LPM of HHO @12 vdc and 18 amps. I had done many road tests with this setup and gained about 8 mpg. consistently at cruising speeds. (The best it would get without HHO was around 30 mpg, but *with* HHO it would do 38 mpg or even more in some cases). Of course you can't produce enough HHO to actually *run* the engine on HHO, but the catalytic effect with regular gas in the combustion chamber made it much more efficient. Unless you can decipher Bob Myers secrets from years ago (RIP), you'll probably never be able to reach those levels. That said, I like your experiments with the graphite 'foil'. The only thing I see that would be a problem over time is the graphite flaking off and deteriorating over time. This might be offset by having it contained in some sort of plastic mesh maybe? Now subbed and will be watching for future developments.😉
very cool mate - maybe I will get there
"Thank you very much for watching" Sir, of all thing, it is us who are supposed to be grateful for your lesson. Many thanks !
Do you think the honey comb membrane of a catalytic converter would work in a PEM fuel cell? Please help.
Facts. On the lvl of average humans for mankind his is a Saint.
Graphite foil....
Absolute genius!!!
You may have just solved at least 2 my 'issues' with stainless.
I have worked with making hho cells for the last 10 years now and was in the process of updating to splitting the gasses. I like this and will be building one using grafhite sheets. Thanks
Did you make it yet
Science, passion, curiosity, and ingenuity. What's not to love about your videos.
lol - cheers mate
You are the Dread Mad Scientist Robert (yes, yes, I have watched The Princess Bride too many times, I admit it, but mostly when my daughter was young. “You have a wonderful gift for rhyme.” “Yes,Yes, some of the time. “Now quit it!” “Anybody want a peanut?”), and you never cease to amaze! Through the help of an academic nephew I have access to ResearchGate and was about to D/L the article and give it a read. The math and the chemistry are way over my head but I could still follow the article having watched your video. I am so happy to be a part of your community. Thank you again.
the thanks go to you mate - without the support I couldn't do this kind of stuff
Thank you for your content, Robert. Im almost done building a dry cell with gas separation, hoping to work with urea. The problem I see with doing this efficiently long term is the cost of KOH which is carbonated in this reaction. If you think urea electrolysis is worth while, could you do a video or few covering regenerating the KOH? The two main ways I see are calcining at 1300c or reacting the K2CO3 with HCl yielding KCl, then electrolyzing to get KOH H2 and Cl2 which can be flowed past a UV light and distilled back to HCl. We could use an efficiency comparison. Without regenerating the KOH, the hydrogen produced, through a fuel cell, costs about $17 per kWh. Completely unsustainable.
I wish I'd heard of dry cells 20 years ago when I was toying with graphite anodes and cathodes. Who knows what I would have come up with (although I will get around to making a hydrogen-powered torch one of these days). Anyhow, I've been bombing around your channel all morning after a fortuitous happening on your silica cement video, as I'm working on an UHTC project and am building my own forge for experiment protocols. Your graphene videos, while not super applicable to my present project, have given me some interesting avenues I hadn't thought of in streamlining procedures and alternate ideas!
I still enjoy looking back at what I've seen that you make I get something out of everything time cheers mate .
Robert! You might very well have, inadvertently, stumbled on to yet another source of combustive and abundant energy, because these videos of yours keep blowing my mind! Thanks!
lol - cheers mate
Quick hook him up to a generator and gather that energy :D
Really a pleasure to see the common sense, professionalism and personal delight you bring to these builds.
Very well done. Make sure you have a layer of graphite right next to the metal endplates so they don't oxidize as much.
Great work. My last diy kitt was with steel and rubber sealant. I reclaimed the metals from an old pentium computer case. It was for a friends brown-gas burning heater and water heater / stove cabin in the woods. His solar setup was amazing, so there was always a battery bank to rely on/ Your build though, is much nicer than the brutal thing I improvised. Excellent to see.... * It almost seems like the O2 would be a useful side toy to use as a pressurized source. Then a torch could get a kick and get deep into the soldering and micro\macro welding zone of it. There might even be a scuba application if someone was to come up with a backpack sized unit. :)
Thank you for sharing this adventure. Keep going, it's a very long rabbit road to many holes of the illusionment. LoL I hope to see more of you along the way.
lol - cheers mate and thanks for taking the time to post
Super fantastic, thanks for sharing, a great application of common things to achieve space age results. Have a great day to all from Canada!
Thank you mate! You too!
What a Coincidence! I have about 50 feet of 4 foot wide roll of this Pure Graphite sheet. Very Fragile, looked it up once, it's used for High Heat Gaskets & I heated it Red Hot & no flaking or damage. I'm In!
awsome mate
The fact that a HHO generator using an aluminium electrode destroys it almost immediately is a clue to a unit designed years ago that used aluminium wire fed into an electrolyte to produce hydrogen on demand for a vehicle engine.
I remember that one. Aluminium welding wire and the end was run across the surface of an Aluminium cylinder submerged in an electrolyte solution. It used a MIG wire feed system to supply the wire as it was the anode and the cylinder was the cathode. a voltage was put across the two materials and the wire eroded releasing Hydrogen.
Amazing Rob, you’ve done it again! Has anyone ever told you they love you? I ordered the bits from USA for one that fit into a T shaped assembly made from about 2.5 inch waste pipe, the vertical part acting as a reservoir, and built it myself .... quite expensive though. However, adding the HHO to my diesel van air inlet tube, with the power supply sourced from a point that was only switched on when the engine was running, gave me a 15-20% fuel saving, and a quieter and smoother running engine. I would switch the device off when having the van serviced, as the engineers only had a performance map for the diesel only.
my wife has lol - interesting stuff about the engine - cheers mate
I told Him even Many// Times, I am Loving Him*! ^_^ * because of his Kindness ans Generosity, times Creativity and Good Sense in Any Form: Scientifically, Ecologically Financially. Hope his Wife won't be Jealous ;)
To get the 15-20% fuel saving, how much electrical energy do you need to put in? I'm thinking solar panels on a van roof to save fuel...
Hi Galv, I was drawing between 10and 15 amps at 12-14 volts. I never did work out the volume of HHO I was getting though. I expect you could do better by pulsing the current, and, looking back to other videos of Rob’s, having some way of agitating or stirring the cell, or a magnet? Worth trying these things! Hope this helps.
@@ThinkingandTinkering doing a quick google search you find "Michael Faraday also demonstrated that electrolysis cells can support up to 0.084 amps per square cm without overheating". I assume that is relating to 316 Stainless Steel plates. My question is do you know how this number was derived and would it be different for other materials such as Graphite? How would we derive this number for Graphite in an HHO cell? (I assume it has something to do with the material's electrical resistance?)
That's astounding! Thanks for the demonstration of the technique. Well worth experimenting with different surface areas, to see if there's an optimum for that foil.
Hi Rob, i recon you onto a real winner there. Cheaper, 3x times more efficient and SO easy to build. Nice one haha, good idea.
generation has always been an interest mate - its the other side of the coin to storage
Quite cool to see things used for 3D printers (coupling, PTFE tube)
for sure
Not sure if its possible or any better or indeed if you could make it would work. Stainless steel mesh coated in graphite ink. Increased surface area a possibility of slowing corrosion. I'm just trying to get you back for making my brain work so hard lol
Hi Rob! Great Work!! a small advice, make the edges of gasket smaller to expose more of the plate's surface area to the water 👍
agreed mate - but this is a test cell
Perhaps use o-rings on plastic rods to separate the graphite plates & expose more area?
@@user-mp3eq6ir5b If you do that, you might as well cut the plates round with hole-saw bits in a drill press.
@@ThinkingandTinkering You see our drive to get productive ;) When do you "test-wise" include a separator membrane ;) ? What could we use for it? Old FFP2 masks (the ptfe ones having 30-40nm mesh widths), the filtrating layer? Or does it have to be more tight, so rather diffusion principle?
I remember my first hho generator. It was a wet cell, and used stainless steel bowls with 12v. I didn't use a bubbler for the test and it so exploded when a spark hit it. Good times.
Well, hell then! Forget the stainless all together. I wonder if there’s a neutral electrolyte, like washing soda that could be nearly as efficient in conjunction with the graphite foil. Even if it was half as efficient, the graphite is so cheap and easy to work with, just make it bigger to make up for the loss in gas production.
Thank you for sharing this, you got me interested in building a cell yesterday.
Washing soda breaks down to sodium hydroxide and co2 gas.
If aqueous sodium hydroxide is exposed to the atmosphere for too long, it will absorbe co2 from the atmosphere converting to washing soda in water, sodium bicarbonate.
washing soda is alkaline too mate - I am sure other salts would work but it would be a question of researching and experimenting I think
Robert is genuinely highlighting the problem and continuation of companies not innovating and selling lacklustre contraptions. Robert is a genuine free thinker. This may cause problems for him. I wish Rob the best and I can hardly wait for your his next video.😚
Thank you for taking the time to say so Martine - all the best
Rob: What do you want really ?
Me: Your hydrogen power cell coupled to your solar cell coupled to your battery on a web shopping cart :-)
An honest statement 😜
I am building a cosplay weapon for a graduation present.
The kid makes videos, and he wanted something that made a loud noise/flash so it seemed more like a real weapon to the actors. HHO gas is the best I have come up with...
You just made my life a lot easier. :)
awesome mate - glad to hear it
Nice build. I have been looking into this for some time and your build is just what I was looking for. Thank you. Where did your get your graphite? Was it a particular type? Also, was there anything in particular that needed to be done with the copper electrode or was it just sandwiched in the stack? I look forward to your next video.
What nice? It is not hydrogen generator as is written in title, it is brown's gas generator. Brown's gas is dangerous, it explodes very loudly from very small spark. Hydrogen instead burns mildly.
When you say "I now need to make up a power supply and a bubbler etc for the graphine HHO unit", it leaps out to me actually all you need to do is replace the Stainless tank in the Jewellers welding unit with your new graphine generator. As long as you can get the plumbing to fit, it already has a power supply, a bubbler, the pipe work and of course a nice case, with amp meter, for it all to be portable in. Now that is in line with everything else having only taken 20 minutes to do :)
I kinda wanted to keep that as a functioning unit mate - good for comparison
Thank you for sharing yourself with the world! You are an excellent teacher and I very much enjoy watching your videos. Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much!
@Richard exactly
That's so cool Rob I use two 11 plate stainless 22 plate in all but the carbon one looks mint and much improvement, you have inspired me to make big improvements great vid.
I'd like to see a comparison between the volume of gas output from this compared to the other device, versus input power.
I made a dry cell with stainless steel and I agree it was an absolute nightmare! I still have it kicking about, maybe I should revisit it
me too - but I still have a couple of ideas I'd like to try in the small version first
What do you use the hydrogen for?
Burning what else you can make one hell of a torch
Hi. Here at h2o-and-evs we build some of the best flooded cells around. In our observations it's the dissolved iron being oxidized that tinges the water yellow. Most water like distilled water can have a lot of dissolved iron in it. Which when it gets oxidized builds up in the cell and/or the reservoir. Also, we have observed no SS degradation even when driven really hard.
Stainless steel usually contains iron too
Brilliant video, you remind me of my old tutor when I was an apprentice instrumentation engineer.
FYI you can use magnets to isolate oxygen from hydrogen (I've seen this done in the bubbler, with a wall divider and diffuser with strong N/S pole magnets on each side).
Also look at PWM circuits and frequencies in the 2.4KHZ range are reported to excite water molecules and help to break the covalent bonds to produce more gas.
Try a 3 phase square wave form invertor, high frequency and experiment from there. I've read it is possible to run 3 separate PWM circuits (standard high wattage LED dimmers for example, cheap and easy to obtain and modify) then use a common neutral and have all three circuits tuned and balanced to the same frequency (oscilloscope and potentiometer to adjust) and each applied to their own electrodes. Electrodes need to be tuned too, if they are precisely manufactured and balanced with one another (mass + ohms resistance) it helps the circuit to reach resonance and maximum HHO production.
Actually, I recall that stainless tubes, that were tuned to one another by their musical tone to ensure that they were all balanced, worked best. I believe Stanley Meyers' system was built in this way, and combined with tuned multi-wave PWM the HHO production was significant.
Do magents work east west?
That is brilliant, please continue the build with all its components so that way you can demonstrate it in full operation. Awesome video👍I'm a DiY guy and stuff like this get a me excited.
cheers mate - glad you liked it
It will be interesting to see how the graphite holds up over time compared to stainless steel.
What type of water did you use ?
Utility, purified drinking water, natural spring water, deionized water, or what. Also did you use any additive ( electrolyte ) like salt, soda, or other chemical. I am very interested in your test results. The applications of this are endless.
Thanks Robert, this sheds light on what happend to me making "graphene" out of graphite. I had it all enclosed in a large jar. Went for a swim came back, and it had exploded. Not a small explosion.
ahhh - oops - lol
Hey there Rob, I'm a little late to the party, but I'd just like to add, incase you didn't know,.. potassium hydroxide and de-ionised water makes a great electrolyte, it stays clean for a long time. Also, I'd love to see you use a permeable membrane between anode and cathode, to extract pure hydrogen, which can be stored, unlike hho.
Keep up the good work :)
Can you say a few words about separating off the h through the membrane? It seems dry cell is browns gas while a wet cell can be made to separate by design, isolating the two gases?
@@marcisaacs9407 I've seen the H2 will collect to the anode side, O2 to cathode, both bubbleing up from solution (gaseous). You just collect the bubbles up above the + and - pins. For welding this makes sense to combine them only then in the nozzle of the welding torch!👍
Thank you Robert. It is very good to see some one I've grown to trust, doing HHO vids. I'm off grid, and in the winter months I supplement my solar with a 12K watt gen running on Gasoline. Would be great if I could produce my own fuel to run the gen set. HHO seems promising. Again, thank you.
Magnet? One of your previous videos showed a magnetic field from a regular magnet increase hydrogen production.
yep - but walk before running mate we need to see how this cell compares first and it would skew the results if we added a magnet now
I need to post my earlier project videos.. I have built a hybrid HHO Geo Metro. I placed a large speaker magnet under the wet cell housing to "stir" the ions in the electrolyte thus keeping the plates surfaces more exposed, increasing production. The electrohydrodynamic studies paid off here because the freed up surface area made a huge difference. The dry cell is a good build for easily separating the 2 gasses by using micro pore cloth separators between the plates and slightly different gaskets. Separation and purification will allow compressed storage for solar generation and ease of portability with a tank.
Does it increase your mpg? Would running the engine hotter increase the mpg by the same amount? I thought these hho generators were shown to only increase mpg due to running the engine hotter, but I see this video and now I'm rethinking...
@@TheRainHarvester
I understand that adding the hho gas merely improves the fuel efficiency in the cylinders. However it also confuses the electronic fuel management unit which somehow destroys this gain
@T.L. Jenks Then we must be able to edit the program to include alternative fuels in the I.C.E. I've not been able to locate anyone in my casual search that can make a reprogrammable system compatible with say Chev for instance.
If you are interested in separating the gases, you can make this same arrangement (but in a single cell) using mesh as your active cathodes and electrodes. Then you use a porous membrane between the mesh electrodes. It would be interesting to see if you could use a graphite or graphite coating on some copper or aluminum mesh.
The cells are like a battery, you can over and under charge the cells. 2.2 volts is typical running voltage. Any heat produced is of coarse inefficient. I have built very sophisticated extreme efficient cells that generate zero heat. The trick is too isolate all exposed edges and the electrolyte between cells can not be shared. I built a tubular system that had plastic manifolds gas and electrolyte porting. the edges of the tube ends isolated in these manifolds with O rings separating them from the electrolyte. Each cell had its own resivour for its electrolyte. The cells were then wired in series to achieve 2.2 volts from 14.5 volt supply.
cheers mate
very interesting
The separation of anode and cathode would be most relevant for adjusting the mix between O2 and H2(?) I mean to manipulate the flame/temperature in welding similar with asethylene/oxygen mix in traditional welding.
Amazing the knowledge you have!
Just brilliant Robert. Now for a method to store the H2. Next step, extracting it from the storage medium and using the hydrogen to generate electricity through a fuel cell.
tbh mate - I would probably just go for an on demand system - makes everything so much simpler
@@ThinkingandTinkering I'll say!! It's the endgame of energy storage using hydrogen. I know our CSIRO here in Australia has developed some method of storing and extracting H2 from Ammonia and a bunch of Japanese car makers are developing fuel cells for their hydrogen powered cars...I suggested this more as in tongue in cheek...its a big bloody job. But the cell for making hydrogen is spot on. Beautiful piece of tech and easy to make...what all tech should be!
we are so close to energy independence, thanks
If they let us.
In Germany they produce so much green energy that they have to throw away a billion watts a year. With a system like this you could turn it to hydrogen and use it when you need it or use it in hydrogen fuel cells.
for sure mate
Economically speaking, at small scale cell processing looks great, but steam reforming will always beat out cell processing at an industrial scale. So the higher demand on hydrogen makes steam reforming a much more sustainable economical reality(actually it already 85%-95% of hydrogen production)
Love your video's because someone somewhere in a really poor country someone has light.
He is... Saving the world and he doesn't even realize it.. the silent protector.. the dark knight.
The Carbon Knight
@@ZainAbdin3 I like it..
Fantastic ROB. Building one this weekend !
awesome mate - make sure it can be disassembled as I have a few more ideas I'd like to try and if they work I will be posting them but they will be adaptations to this basic design
@@ThinkingandTinkering OK ROBERT
Great show Rob, my hat goes off to you sir. Stay safe from Australia.
Brilliant. That was a huge expression of hydrogen! Great show!!
cheers mate
Legend..... Legend..... my brain hasn't worked so hard for years
lol awesome
If only i saw this video 6 years ago. Using graphite foil is genius!
cheers mate
Rob Rob Rob, you are amazing every single day haha I have learned something new today again
lol - cheers mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering Can I share this video?
Back for more , I love my Brain , wish I’d have found you years ago ! Quality !
What is the thickness of the graphite foil and neoprene gasket material? I'm mostly wondering about the graphite foil, because there are many different thicknesses to choose from. I posted this question on one of your other HHO related videos, but haven't seen a response. I also understand that it's very difficult to track comments from 231 subscribers, so I'm hoping to increase my chances of this being seen by posting the question again. :-)
This post is somewhat late but I've just been reviewing your posts in my archive. The project above is brilliant as usual Robert, well explained and demonstrated. That's why I've followed you religiously for many, many years. In respect to the systematic study paper you refer to, graphite, as you said, is indicated as the best overall material for electrolysis electrodes and produces higher gas outputs. May I point out however, but not wishing to offend you, that within the said study paper it does state the following,
"With increased electrolyte concentration the hydrogen production is greatly increased.
However, the gradual decomposition of anodic graphite rods is observed. From the study we concluded that the high electrolytic concentration (above 0.025 M) is not beneficial for long time hydrogen production."
A slight negative for graphite, maybe, but it's not the end for sure, as new materials are no doubt in the pipeline. ( Of course that's if we're ever allowed to witness such.)
Kind regards and many thanks for your dedication to open science.
John (UK)
I would really love to see a video on converting hydrogen and oxygen back into electricity.
like a fuel cell?
@@ThinkingandTinkering Yes, there are next to no videos on home made ones. I was thinking of using a a capacitor of some sort like a Kelvins water dropper to separate the charges instead of materials like platinum. I never got to playing around and thinking further on it. Anyways I would love to see your take on a fuel cell.
@@ThinkingandTinkering yes! I was hoping to learn how to build several to replace ebike batteries and thus maybe increase the range independence. They have done sth. Like this on the armadillo or the flevo bike I think. ( I think John of veloads UA-cam channel has covered it?
@@DavoRavo I saw one video about that a long time ago...very simple process
Robert Murray-Smith
Hello Sir,
have you ever heard of a coil that, instead of having copper, has liquid mercury in a thin hose?
And it would work just like a coil, but with liquid mercury.
Dad was chief electrician at paper mill , Army Ranger , when younger , daughter is close to electrical engineer , done soon , Son rebuilt helicopters and built wiring harness from small to large planes & helicopters , I just like to learn and experiment , but they do carry my DNA & Genes , and I can build or fix most anything , I Love learning ,
Awesome, this is good to know. !!!
thx again,
cheers,
Rene
No worries mate - glad you enjoyed it
Very interesting video. I like it so much. I have a standard dry cell, but that with graphite is truly awesome. Thanks mate.
Thank you! Cheers!
I would love to have more on this hho cell
We are heading for a portable HHO generator. Can it power a micro motor for a drone? If this type of tech made electrically powered drones possible, why not internal combustion drones? Thanks for an amazing idea and innovation squared!
cheers mate
Great video! I have an old Kron 300 water torch that hasn't worked in years. I have been wanting to make a more powerful unit for years and after watching your vid I have decided on a dry cell with the graphite foil as you used. I had a few questions though. What thickness of graphite foil did you use? How did you "bury" the copper tab for the end/center plates? Thanks!
This is GREAT! Not only cheap and easier, it's also lighter.
I would like to suggest to you to look at the homepage WasserStattSprit by Peter Salocher. Unfortunately he speaks german, but german is similar to english. His video about his HHO heater is almost self explaining. What drew my attention to him was how he made a dry cell work as a heater with a catalyst made of platinum o cause the HHO to burn without any flame heating a batch of sand that has been packed into a metal tube. The catalyst must be preheated a little bit to get the reaction going.
The best your video is: This version is even affordable for a poor musician like me. Your work made the whole planned project come closer to becoming true. THANKYOU!! Stay beautiful!
awesome mate and it is a whole lot lighter lol
Hey Robert, Great job but i have only 1 question. Will the graphite corrode over time and if it does how long will it take?
Thanks, epeius
I just found myself a great channel. Lots of work and interesting content on this topic in particular in the rest of the videos looking by the playlist.
Can't wait to watch those. Thank you!
I wonder if you find it interesting checking Paul Pantone's GEET generator?
I could say it really does clean the smell of the exhaust gasses somewhere near zero. I got mine with minor leaks here and there, and it still worked idling and under load.
glad you like the channel mate - cheers
Depending on the model of the original hho machine, I believe you will find that it will produce around 1L/min of hho gas. If one uses that as your benchmark, it would be very interesting to see what the output of your graphite dry cell is. Further to this, given that a urea solution is able to produce hydrogen at 1/4 the voltage (0.37v instead of 1.27v) this would be an additional step, but an interesting one to explore! Looking forward to seeing what you can do with this!
it is interesting mate - especially if we start to think about cost per litre produced
Ok I am doing something that I never do ..... go complete fanboy.
Robert you are the epitome of a DYI guy, like the best ever, close your eyes and listen and there is this older college professor that has a huge amount of knowledge in electrical engineering and he is able to impart that knowledge in a awesomely understandable manner. Open your eyes and you see a normal, everyday bloke with dirty fingers that enjoys actually getting his hands dirty
That is a bravissimo standing ovation from me!!!
lol - that really made me smile mate - thank you for taking the time to post and say that - all the best
How thick was your graphene sheet? I bought my through Amazon and it was too thin, .005”
What is the ideal thickness for this project?
Thank you very much
Exciting stuff mate. Can't wait to see the next stages: alternator power source, quantites harvested, perhaps gas emission test from local maechanic with sensor up the tailpipe too.
Great work
When you burn HHO what you get as an exhaust product is water! Which is why it is such a clean fuel, the generation of Hydrogen could be done by using solar energy in hot countries, once again though it's the difficulty of storage & transport that makes it not widely viable yet
Wow really cool! I know it has been a while but I am interested to know how long the graphite foil lasted. Even if they didn't last that long it might be worth it when you compare the cost of stainless to the graphite sheets
Mate that is really really awesome! Really exciting! Quite the HH0 production!
cheers mate
how a magnetic field will increase production on your cell ? ( another video from you showed increased production in a magnetic field)
keep your good work.
no idea I just know it works
I'll say it again Rob - try Extruded Carbon Water Filters, submerged in electrolyte... it's all about surface area (4000m^2 in a standard 250mm Cartridge) and the correct pulse frequency (25A 82V @ 300kHz) to obtain optimum resonance. Adding a small brushless circulation pump helps improve gas removal from Filters to improve efficiency.
@@delawarecop resonance is probably individual and needs to be tested with a fequency sweep and a bode diagram and of course a measurement how much is coming out
Stefan Weilhartner - Sure, but we must have a base point from which to start, right? 300kHz is a great center frequency to start sweeps, rather than say 10kHz.
@@delawarecop no, I would start at 0 Hz and go up logarithmic to the limit of the electronic circuit. Maybe around 500kHz or 1Mhz. That depends on the electronic that need to be suited for that.
After doing the impedance measurement, I would do an output measurement at 0 Hz, resonance frequency and +/- 30% around it.
Hi Rob, nice work. The gas your getting out is both
Hydrogen and Oxygen (HHO) a highly explosive mixture! I believe a licence would be needed if you wanted to store it.
Storing Hydrogen separately is dificult, it needs to be under extremely high pressure before it liquidises (unlike oxygen) which means pressure vessels have to be able to withstand not only the pressure but impacts through for example a vehicle crash. These are two of the reasons why we don't have Hydrogen vehicles instead of petrol. Petrol at atmospheric pressure is liquid but easily evapourates into gas, (perfect cheap fuel)
It is a demonstrator missing the separator. THEN it gets interesting.
(You do NOT store HHO. It is just for immediate use. Still it's got its uses. Perfect welding/soldering torch for fine work, driving reactions etc..)
can't wait to see how well this performs. I assume if you build a larger stack, then it would produce more gas but require more power to run ?
yep
Increase the voltage this would decrease the current. Nice work, question.....is the electrolyte recycle if so how?
Here is an excerpt from a Stanford paper where they using a negatively charged coating "They layered nickel-iron hydroxide on top of nickel sulfide, which covers a nickel foam core. The nickel foam acts as a conductor - transporting electricity from the power source - and the nickel-iron hydroxide sparks the electrolysis, separating water into oxygen and hydrogen. During electrolysis, the nickel sulfide evolves into a negatively charged layer that protects the anode" I would like to see how these two would compare side by side. Great video. I would like to see a design of the anode and cathode separated in its own compartments not allowing the collecting gasses to mix so not joined at the top - would this allow you to take just the pure H and pure O from each side? Regards.
hi, your videos are always interesting and inspiring. maybe I am missing something about the connections but it seems to me that it does not produce hydrogen but a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen, is that correct? also my doubt about the use of carbon for the electrodes is the possible production of co2 to the positive plate. is it possible in your opinion? thank you
Have you tried separating the gas streams? Means you have to introduce a gas tight middle layer (if the carbon sheets are not gas tight enough) and gas separator membrane/micro-mesh in between.
Could anyone tell me cheap gas sensors to get a direct reading of O2 and H2 concentration?
Have to dig into spectroscopy :)
Nice application of the research data. That's the way it is done.
absolutely mate - read first then apply
Hi, thanks for the video, great stuff. How did you "bury some copper into the foil"? Is that two plates glued together with a copper connector between them? Thanks
My though exactly... I think you're right, though. It's glued.
Wonderful build. I too am wondering about how much improvement you would be able to make to this if you used en urea solution for the electrolyte and a magnet for agitation. I was also wondering if pumping the electolyte through the dry cell would increase efficiency. Wonderful video despite making me wonder. Have a nice day.
cheers mate and exactly my thoughts - so I will be trying these ideas for sure
Simply Awesome! again, Every day!
quick question, what are the specs on the graphite foil? thickness is my biggest question
Again Thanks for the consistently amazing content
it 80 microns mate
Dear Rob,
it's realy amazing what's going on in this Channel. So many options - some I was knowing, some I forgotten and much others which are new for me: For example this dry cell hydrogen generator and the other one with urea as electrolyte. Many thanks for all this - must see what is suitable for myself; actually I'm not sure...
that can be a problem - trying to decide - for me it is all about energy generation and storage - oh and fun along the way lol
This method very quickly and very very safely ....
Thank you for the video! Adding an HHO flashport on top of your bubbler would prevent unwanted pressure build up in the bubbler when flashbacks occur.
cheers mate
Don't light up a cigarette.
In 2024 it's a m*the pipe now.
Either way, don't.
design up a template for your laser cutter Rob if you're going to scale it up. Your machine back there should have no problem slicing through your rubber gaskets I would think. Really love that you can just hole punch the foil though.
that's a nice idea mate - I could get really nice gaskets then - I'll do that - thanks for the tip
Hello Robert, if you think stainless is a bitch to work with try titanium. But supposedly titanium plated with platinum is the best plate material period according to laboratory papers. Since you used graphite plate material instead, what is the materials total name ??? Just graphite or reinforced graphite sheet ??? How about the electrolyte used Sir. What did you use ???? One more thing Rob, what was the efficiency compared to using standard material which is stainless ??? Thanks a bunch Sir and peace to you too. V
A man with an imagination that's curious enough to get his hands dirty. Outstanding.... And the fact that Anthony Hopkins is teaching me to build is awesome! I wait for the day he speaks of a certain census taker, fava beans and a nice chianti... Thank you, Sir!😉
I knew you could do it. 😋
cheers mate
You can use a semi-conductor instead of lye😉 rub 2 pieces of 1000grit wet and dry together and harvest the carborundum by washing off with distilled water.
cheers mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering if you want to push the cell add oxalic acid with the carborundum. Zero foaming issues like lye brings.
@Robert Murry-Smith what I've discovered a couple of years ago, when I had 2 neutral cells between each positive and negative electrode is that depending on the electrolyte, it behaved as a battery. It kept some of the voltage and amperage we used for electrolysis. We used stainless steel electrodes. Would it behave the same way with graphite?
yes mate - there is some H+ and OH- entrained but self discharge and efficiency are always going to be rubbish with this kind of arrangement for batteries
During my test, when doing slow (long duration) pulse width modulation, I also noticed huge but brief in rush current very much the same as if one were working with a capacitor. I suspect that was due to capactance effects at voltages less than 1.24 volts per cell where the electrolyte acts as a dielectric between the plates of a capacitor, storing energy in the dielectric that can be latter released as you observed.
@@kreynolds1123 I've done the same experience and I found out that 1.5 volts per cell would be most efficient, as it would prevent evaporation losses. I've tested a variety of displacements and found out that the production level would be proportional to the distance between negative and positive cell. I've tested without neutral cell and with one neutral cell between electrodes. And tried to increase electrolyte concentration as well. I had a Volvo which I was planning to run on hydrogen from water. I found out that the best would be combining with redox reaction as it is easy to split water vapour by oxidation. As the result of the combustion was water vapour, I was designing a catalytic converter to replace the existing one for this intention. Well, as soon as I had to go to Belfast, my wife sold the car. Ridiculously price that would not even pay for the tires.
Fair play that’s impressive👍 I remember reading a lot about different hydrogen production ideas Stanley Myers apparently had a conversion kit for the standard combustion engine to change the engine to run on hydrogen this reminds me of it it will be interesting to see how efficient this is when you’ve Finely tuned it .... I think Myers might have used a coil of wire around his stainless steel cathodes and drawn an arc of voltage through the coil conductively to change the way the electrons meet against the anode or perhaps plated them in this manner saying that can you plate with graphite 🤔 this is giving me loads of ideas thanks very much for the inspiration 👍coo as 👌 did you ever see the cavity heat pump that guy made worth a look too
I am really interested in urea electrolysis as I think that will be net positive for generation
Robert Murray-Smith yea just checking that out nano aluminium compound added to urine is that what your on about ? looks like it’s making loads of hydrogen 😀 wonder how they make the nano aluminium compound I’m sure I can make some good urine 😂 i wonder if it gives off other gases too that are bad .... perhaps urine in the fuel cell you made not the most hygienic thing but might generate loads
What'd you come up with
Very fascinating, I hope to see a piece of a catalytic convertor brick being put in the flame.
ok
I think this is the study Robert mentions. A Systematic Study on Electrolytic Production of Hydrogen Gas by Using Graphite as Electrode. I read it. Very interesting info. I think however that in the study they used cylinders of hard graphite for electrodes. I wonder whether the flexible graphite would outperform the hard graphite due to more porosity and surface area? But, also, would the flexible underperform the hard in it possibly disintegrating faster? Again maybe due to its porosity. If the flexible is durable enough, great! If not, hard graphite sheets and rods are available on EBay and elsewhere.
Blessings!
Sir your doing a Nobel job by sharing ur experience, knowledge, information. It's just priceless don't have words to praise your contribution to the society 🙏...
Mr.Rob, here a your fan from Brazil. Congratulations man.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I can return a favor and share mine also a bit. Regarding HHO…
How to build a brown's gas / HHO generator safely and successfully. Part 1
Interesting concept, but we need to associate a voltage number to what "super efficient" comparatively means. An HHO stack with stainless steel plates operate typically in the 2-2.5 V per cell. The minimum voltage for any electrolyser is around 1.48V per cell, the so called "thermo-neutral" voltage. A top quality PEM cell with platinum/iridium catalyst can operate at 1.7 V per cell with current density around 0.5 Amp/cm2, the lower the voltage the higher the efficiency. A standard stainless steel plates HHO stack performs very poorly vs PEM, requiring 0.5 to 0.8 V more for the same task. Where does and HHO cell made with graphite plates sits?