Why does GoldenEye use In-Game Time? [Fireside Chat]
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- 🔥 Finally addressing the real reasons why GoldenEye & other speedgames use in-game time (IGT,) as opposed to "real time." I hope this answers a bunch of the questions many onlookers have when it comes to in game time & real time.
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Watch Karl Jobst on Twitch: / karljobst
Henrik's post about IGT variances: forums.the-elite.net/index.ph...
Henrik's post about Lag & Lookdown: forums.the-elite.net/index.ph...
various other GE technical facts: forums.the-elite.net/index.ph...
r/speedrun thread about slow SGDQ timer: / the_sgdq2017_stopwatch...
Train WR history: rarewrs.free.fr/goldeneye/allr...
Cheese05's SM64 120 Star 1:39:19: • *Former WR* Super Mari...
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You can find The-Elite World Rankings with tons of videos linked to it, right here: rankings.the-elite.net/goldeneye
Feeling inspired to try for yourself? Sign up for The-Elite rankings here: rankings.the-elite.net/join
You can watch me live at / rwhitegoose
and follow at / rwhitegoose
Thanks for watching, and until next time, stay true! - Ігри
![Why Does No One Speedrun This Game? or, The Odyssey of the Lost VHS Tapes [a Fireside Story]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JZhKEBwCfTs/mqdefault.jpg)
![The "Luckiest" Speedrun in Perfect Dark History: Real or Fake? [Complete Analysis]](/img/n.gif)
Hype is proportional to the size of the barrier to achieving a new WR. People love barriers, for example 4 hours in 100% Oot or 1:40 in SM64. GE IGT provides these barriers, as a full second in an IL is a big leap.
that's another good way of looking at it. Grats on Dam 52 btw
Congrats again on that jungle 50 Karl, its trace(xK99) btw :) 🍆
Word.
thanks dude!
@@karljobst gratz on archive agent :15 as well, legendary stuff
I enjoy these little fireside chats, we should do this more often, my friends.
A+Start dude I didnt know you watch goose too! I love your channel and the "son of a glitch" series!!
I agree, being a more comfy/family storytelling, you listen and pay extra attention. It works very good. Storytelling is an awesome skill to have.
love to see you are also a fan
Hey Goose, any news on the Meet Of Meets. You mentioned previously that it was this weekend? Any updates? Cheers! Love from UK
what if, maps like Dam, that may have a lowest time possible because of the in game timer, earn an "External timer" category. Competition for records can open up more, without causing a hassle like having to re-legitimize all old records, and without tarnishing old records.
These fireside chats are just so damned cosy. I don't even play the game anymore, let alone speedrun it. I just enjoy listening to Goose speak lovingly about gaming.
Here ye here ye
Same.
You are not alone
He knows his stuff.
C O M F Y
@Yuki Taiyō Nice reference there!
'Dat C O M F Y A E S T H E TI C
Interesting thing happened the other day, a work colleague mentioned goldeneye speed running and asked if I had heard of you. I have watched you since before speedlore. Small world.
Why is there a computer mouse on a brick
So he can game
Its legit coz if he put it directly on the fire it would melt, but he can use it on the brick no problem.
It's a real mouse wym
'Cause it's a brick.. mouse! It's mighty mighty, just lettin' it lay around.
Thats a Canadian mousemat
Thank you for making this video. This is one of the biggest slights of Goldeneye that I commonly see and yet I fully agree that IGT is a far better timing method for Goldeneye.
Good vid, my friend.
I have never seen you commenting anywhere and now seeing you in the most unlikely of places is intresting
Hot damn, didn't know my boy Ashcorp was into speedrunning at all, let alone watches RWhiteGoose
So you like GE speedruns? Good
Oh my god I'm excited
Go back to your old videos
Speedrunning Goldeneye is about optimizing the in-game timer. Ok, got it. Thanks.
I never met a man I'd rather be but Goose, you're pretty dang cool
Years later I come back to these fireside chats just to relax while I start my own wood stove. Cheers Friends
You don't have to worry about your cartridge's battery running out. Goldeneye, along with many other N64 games, uses an EEPROM to store saves. This has limited writes, but no battery to worry about.
Am I the only person who thinks Goose looks like a young Orson Welles in the thumbnail and video?
Just as eloquent and masterful a storyteller as Orson was!
I rarely like long answers to questions that can be simply explained, but I love these fireside chats diving deep into broad questions like this. A great, cozy, video my friend.
The one sad thing about the Fireside chats is knowing that as soon as you get a new one, the timer is reset on how long we have to wait for the next one. I guess basically what I mean is: more fireside chat videos, thanks.
We can reduce lag to make the timer run faster
@@Bad-Sir
God doesn't like it when you mess with earth.exe settings.
You are easily my favorite youtuber. Your videos feel like sitting down and chatting with a buddy
4:45 That was an extremely beautiful gesticulation.
The comparison between externally measuring time and externally measuring distance was brilliant.
Imagine how different goldeneye and perfect dark speedrunning would be if they did 2 decimal places after the seconds. Suddenly, tied records are a whole lot more rare.
Dude, big fan. Good to see other Canadian content creators out there.
Amazing video structure!!! The lighting, editing, and the way you made it was so good
Real time should only be used when the in-game timer is busted / not precise enough or when there's no timer at all.
Each game community should decide what they want to use.
GoldenEye's is indeed not precise enough, lacking the seconds. Both should be used.
@@RedHairdo what do you mean... It's not lacking the seconds. It's precise enough. Super Metroid or pokemon with only minutes are the ones that aren't precise enough
km9103 the issue is how optimised goldeneye is. When dozens of people can tie a world record, you get to the point where you need more precision to differentiate skill on a finer level. Goldeneye shouldn’t necessarily change over because of what is already available, but real-time has a lot of advantages over IGT
@@voidedifbroken3953 what's the problem with tied record ? Real time is good when no loading or lag can impact.
The issue with tied WR is that a 30.0 and a 30.99 would still be classed together as a 30, despite almost a seconds difference. I don't actually know how the timer works exactly but it would have to have a 0.99 second range in which a tie could occur. A second in a game as optimized as Goldeneye is such a large amount that you have to at least consider the issues of in-game-time.
I really enjoy your videos and insider knowledge into speedrunning. Thank you for putting the time into this :)
Hey Goose, hope you read this:
Thank you. Your videos are so incredibly informative and fascinating, not to mention charming since we get such a friendly personality to guide us. Not only is speed-running a niche thing to probably 99.9% of people, I think it's equally hard for people to understand why it exists and what makes it so appealing to those who participate. A well put-together explanation can go such a long way in showing outsiders why speed-running is what it is. As an example, I personally couldn't care about most team sports, but a documentary delving into the universal stories, dreams, obsessions, strategies, struggles, and hopes of team sports is instrumental in building respect and interest for them from people of all walks of life. I feel like your videos do a justice in bridging that gap and helping explain something that can *so* easily be misunderstood, dismissed, and thought of as a pointless waste of time. I first started watching speed-running because I couldn't believe people care so much about something that has arguably no impact on the world we live in. It's an easy initial response to have. That was the hook that got me started. But it wasn't long before I came to really appreciate and respect all that goes into it.
So, again, thank you for all the entertaining and informative work you do - for us who love speed-running and for those who have yet to discover it!
~C
Bro you could talk about anything and I'd still watch. Your tone of voice and the fucking fire place makes it a delight to listen to you. The fact that your content is great is just an added value.
I've never clicked faster on a video before. Love your fireside videos, Goose!
*In response to what you said at **10:23** I can verify that you're absolutely right, Goose.*
I run ILs in Destiny and honestly the mods have been kind of apathetic about how the game is timed until recently. We had officially switched to RTA a while ago, but for many months, Speedrun.com still went by IGT.
I DMed a moderator and got it switched to where it should be. After that, I timed numerous runs that I thought might have timer glitches due to death warps, loading zones, and mid-run cut-scenes, and it turns out the moderators have been arguably lazy in verifying RTA accurately.
Destiny rounds up, and at the moment I'm hoping to help make clear rules for runners so they know how time RTA accurately. I think it's always good to have clear, established rules in speed games, so when to start, pause, resume, and finish is information that all runners have access to. The moral of the story is *fight for what's right!*
Anyways, I love these fireside chats _so much,_ so please make a million. That's all. 💖
dEsTiNy OMEGALUL
Say what you will about Destiny, but IMO Destiny 1 has the potential to become one of the best speedgames ever. The movement got me like "DUDE WHAT A RUSH" all the frickin time. :)
Just to clarify on “however long cartridge batteries last”, goldeneye 007 uses an EEPROM chip to hold save data, which doesn’t use a battery. Those chips are good for decades of usage.
These videos always seem very welcoming
I always love these fireside chats. Good stories, cozy environment and as always, Goose has a voice you can listen to for hours. I never ran this game, no games actually. I just like listening to all the stories around speedrunning in general and Goose is really good at telling them.
edit: Though the microphone seems a bit weird this time around.
Just woke up and saw this on my feed. The day is already great
I always imagine gooses parents throw him out for playing too much goldeneye so he heads to the cabin to talk about goldeneye.
Great stuff as always, love the fireside chats.
i was just watching another fireside chat! love these goose
i love these vids, so cozy
4:00 Your increased emotion shows how special that is to you. I never thought much of it, but i like the idea of the game saving the record to the cartridge too. It's badass
I noticed at very end of runs in side by side, that the 1:03 run had quicker end sequence fade. What's that from?
So interesting. Love your work.
I love these videos. So comfy.
RWG THIS IS SO COMFYYYYYY AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, just what i needed rn and the firesounds in the background ZOMG
I could listen to you talk about a game i never played for ages , this is the best speedrun content on youtube (that isnt speedrun progression, sorry but summoning salt is a damn god) please never stop QQ
Any other UA-camr would have used a TV or monitor with a fire-place video running on it, but not you, Goose.
That’s a nice little touch, right there. I love these fire-side chats, with the crackling of the fire in the background.
It’s relaxing, and I like it. :)
I mean, he did use fake sounds...
This is a great video format
The 1080 avalanche community was just debating IGT vs RTA this week. I have to agree IGT just feels that much better. Really good video man!
Hey goose. Very new and very casual to the speed running videos but the first i watched was your 2014 adgq goldeneye with the dual controllers with your buddy. Been a fan since and enjoying the lore. Thanks for the work
Goose if you had the chance to change the goldeneye timers back when the game came out so it had 1 decimal place would you do it? Basically do you think it would have improved things?
You absolutely need to host a show. Your cadence and tone is seriously really nice to listen to
Sometimes I like to get comfy on my bed or couch when watching a Fireside Chat so I can imagine myself in the room and Goose is just talking to me.
Best way to start a long weekend. Happy Thanksgiving Goose.
This is what I needed to finish this week.
I love your videos! You inspired me to try my own! Thank you!
Thanks I always wondered how legit it would be to compare external times vs in game time and you nailed all questions I had.
Nice! I agree pretty much completely with the IGT reasoning there, it's an interesting subject and definitely worth summarizing.
'If you do the thing, and you do it right, it just works.'
I dont speedrun or play goldeneye, but you're quite the storyteller, I always enjoy your fireside chats.
One dislike already. Marc Rutzou was quick.
He speedruns everything, just not cleaning his apartment like the degenerate he is.
seanissomething he should speedrun his dishes
how can even a single person dislike this?....goose is literally the word of god
+seanissomething One quick one. He already knew he was getting there on the perfect line.
I doubt Rutzou would care. The dislike ratio altogether is probably more due to political tribes - cheer for your team, 'boo' the other team.
Informative, thoughtful, interesting and well spoken.
very informative as ever.look forward to the next speed lore.take it easy
I've honestly never played goldeneye but I love watching these
these fireside chats are always great!
Okay so, I generally agree with you that currently in game time works nicely.
But the comments of "Who are we to question how the console times things?" And "Real time timers can be flawed too, so there's no real difference" really bugged me.
This mostly makes me think of Super Metroid which also has an in-game timer. It makes sense they switched to real time in Metroid, since it became common to do competitive side-by-side speedruns, and because the timer only counts in increments of 1 minute, and because the runs are long enough for real time strats to create serious time divergences. But since I haven't seen either of those become a big thing for Goldeneye, and because it doesn't seem to cause any serious community issues, I like your takeaway of keeping the in game timer.
I like to think real time optimization goes a lot deeper than game time. In-game time only makes sense to me on PC where load times depend on how much you spent on your hardware.
hey goose have you ever considered making dudley do-right 2?
Goose + Fire = Sleepy times
what is the piano music? can someone id?
Damn that cabin looks cozy and comfy as hell! :D
I enjoyed the video my friend, stay warm an speed on!
I love your videos,I’ve been playing goldeneye since it came out It is my all-time favorite video game growing up and as of now your videos just add to the nostalgia and also give the game new meaning in more life to me that I learned about speed running through you which according to your videos speed running has been going on forever and I have been living under a rock apparently LOL But without you archiving all these things I wouldn’t know that so big ups to you goose I’ve been doing a little speed running myself unfortunately I have no way in capturing the video right now but eventually I would love to join the community
I watch these to fall asleep. So relaxing
What about that 007 game where all the records are 0 seconds cause you can pause buffer the timer so it doesn't advance?
Hello my friends. You know I was thinking yesterday I need me some Goose in my life and BAM when I wake up from a cold October slumber there it is a new Goose vid. Heck yeah, can't wate to see the next speedrun lore.
You cheeky canuck, the presentation of this actually blew my mind. BTW your cameo on Nirvana the Band the Show fucking rocked.
It's a good discussion indeed. There is plenty of games that dont have in game timers so there may not be any other way to actually time the runs unless you use real time. Then it's debatable for a group of people speedrunning a particular game to determine well where exactly do we begin actually timing the run itself and end it. An example would be well do we start timing the second you launch the game, start timing once you choose the level and loading it, start timing after it's already loaded and the instant you can start playing. Especially for games no one really speedruns at all. There may not be any standards at all so it's hard to really figure it out unless a bunch of people come together for that game to make that standard and plus without standards to go by or anything like that it could be easier to perhaps even cheat others out of their runs. Another problem with real time versus in game time is if using real time, those speedrunning certain games or games on emulators on computers, and if their hardware is better it may make loading things in game faster for them versus someone else with not as good hardware or on the actual console version of that game versus pc emulation which is unfair for comparing the time within runs. That could mainly be for non-segment runs perhaps as if you already have a level loaded you should just be able to play it as is. There could be more factors I'm sure a lot goes into this. I really wanna start speedrunning at some point there is these 2 ps1 games i really wanna do that almost no one speedruns. Would be nice to take it seriously and actually create a standard which we need as you've explained before in past videos if I recall correctly because it helps with people cheating and faking world records like we've seen exposed before
I find it cool that goose pronounces lag as "leg"
I'm not even that into speedrunning, it just snowed this morning so I'm mainly here for the warmth of the fire.
But there's still be quite a lot of other games that have switched from timing with in-game time to real time (e.g. Super Metroid, Pokemon Red/Blue), what is it about Goldeneye that makes it special?
Also, when you use in-game time in Goldeneye - which measures time in increments of whole seconds - won't you inevitably have cases where two people simultaneously hold the world record for fastest in-game time, but where one would be faster than the other if the run was measured using real time? It could very just be ignorance on my part, but it just feels that when runs are optimised to the extent that Goldeneye is, where people are saving time in increments of just a few frames, it just makes sense to adopt the same methods that something like, say, the Super Mario Bros. speedrunning community uses, where they count the number of frames in a run to determine whether or not it is a world record.
I have a friend, my best even. He is 25 and I am 29. He is so unlike me, we only met as he shouted "who wants to plash Super Smash" at 4am outside a nightclub in 2014. He's musically talented and "cool"and I'm business and academically talented and a bit nerdy.
But... despite how different I thought we were in background and taste one day we put UA-cam on on his computer and I see RWhiteGoose in his continue watching section...
I think my point is that a lot more people watch the videos than you would expect.
Keep up the good content.
I'm a relatively new follower; but an avid one. The cradle record rush was the first big Goldeneye story I saw break, thank you for reporting it and ensuring the community is recognised.
Thank you for giving me and so many many other people a new* and exciting thing to enjoy.
*New is always subjective
if you like these videos you will like Pannenkoek as he is to Mario 64 as no one to Goldeneye or perhaps any game, fascinating.
Pannenkoek goes more into the technical side of things than Goose, but still great to watch.
I was hoping to find out how Szklarz took the lead. Which times did he get?
It was more the fact that ace lost points from the cradle 33's everyone was getting.
But he did put in some non-wr pbs on frigate on SA and 00A along with cradle agent 33
Love these platonic fireside chats we have.
Whered you get that sweater?
You sure do know how to make a person feel all cosy and stuff. Great work Goose
love these
perfect timing
a while back super metroid speedrunning switched to using real time instead of its in game timer, if i remember correctly it was because the in game timer was affected by lag and paused the timer at common intervals then started again. i think door transitions was one of the things that stopped the timer for a moment, as were item text boxes. currently the top any% time as i write this on super metroid's speedrun.com page has a 13 minute difference between the real time and in game timer. also, if the times were ordered by in game time, the current 1st and 18th place rank on that leaderboard would be tied despite a 2 minute and 33 second difference between the two in real time.
because goldeneye is ran as the individual levels and not the overall game all at once, then i think its actually pretty reasonable to use the in-game timer. it doesn't seem to have any sort of problems in the levels where something ends up stopping the in-game timer or slows it down, and if it does its relatively rare or small. if the overall game was ran at once by people as a single speedrun, then i think things would be different and a real time timer would be used.
honestly, it depends on how good the in game timer is. if the timer has massive slow downs, or starts and stops at weird and common intervals, then real time is a possible better option. though in games like goldeneye were most levels are run in less than a minute and every second counts, someone starting a real time timer late or early could make a more important difference.
that house looks like a time matching that throw u back to the 90'
Honestly the greatest type of video format known to man.
So relaxing
loving this fireside chat. makes me fuzzy
Yey! Another video :D
Great video🔥🔥can u make some more fireside stories please
i enjoy these
I couldnt believe it, but goose actually turned up the comfy aesthetic
was that the first outside shot of the cabin?!?
time for another late night fireside chat with Goose
Awesome video
great vid!
I got covid, im currently listening to your fireside videos over and over while i fall in and out of sleep. I got it kinda bad but its not much other then a bad flu so far
@@GamerFolklore thanks man!
How are you feeling now bro
@@Frilleon all good! Still not tasting my good well but thats okay
This fireside setting is so cozy.
Maaan I've missed this crispy cabin atmosphere :D
If only the devs had thought about timing it to 10th of a second. Cutting to a full second would still be a huge achievement, but it would make it so that great runs would cease to be WR runs. Drawing the world record would be much harder making WR times more impressive.
2007 the same year my 3 favorite movies came out, Avril Lavignes 3rd studio album release and being a third grader at the time, DAMN that really was a long time ago and you decide to bring this story up 11 years later😁.
Enter David Hatcher Childress: “but was the time some koind of interphase stellar interruption ?!?”
I had no idea people questioned the timing of the game. It always felt so concrete I didn't know there was room for debate.
Sup Mixon. It's just because as far as I know there's never been a serious GoldenEye runner who's even suggested using real time over IGT. If the players don't want it then it's irrel, because it's just a tool to measure the players against each other and we know it's the one that works best and is most rewarding :)
For real, and no one can really argue that reward you get.
You do knock out some great content bro.