The Shocking Story of Octomom's CORRUPT Fertility Doctor
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2023
- If you were remotely aware of the news back in 2009, you heard of Nadya Suleman, aka the mom of the first known surviving set of octuplets, aka “The Octomom.” The media absolutely villainized her, but you know what? Let’s talk about the REAL villain of this story: her insane fertility doctor, Michael Kamrava. I haven’t been able to stop talking to my coworkers about this bonkers tale of medical malpractice since I learned about it, so now I’m doing it to you too.
Watch next:
Exploitation of Mega Multiples: • Exploitation of Mega M...
Famous Mega Multiples and the Medicine That Made Them: • Famous Mega Multiples ...
All About Twins: • Doctor Explains Twins:...
References:
Dr. Kamrava’s license revocation: www.documentcloud.org/documen...
CA Medical Board’s response to Kamrava’s request to reinstate license: www.documentcloud.org/documen...
Dr. Kamrava’s interview with ABC news: • Octomom Doc Defends Fe...
CBS: www.cbsnews.com/news/octomoms...
NYT “Octomom Proved us All Wrong” www.nytimes.com/2018/12/15/st...
Terrible Media Comments:
Young Turks “Nasty & Disgusting:” • Octo-Mom's Pregnant St...
Death Threats “Leave Cali or you will die:” • OCTOMOM DEATH THREATS:...
Nadya’s side of the story:
Video Interviews with Nadya Ann Curry 2009: • Nadya Suleman, Mother ...
Doctor Drew Interview: • DR. DREW & OCTO-MOM Na...
Nadya on The Doctors: • The Untold Story of “O...
Inside Edition 2017 Update: • Octomom: I Had To Kill...
NYT “Octomom Proved us All Wrong” www.nytimes.com/2018/12/15/st...
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** The information in this video is intended to serve as educational information and is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. All content, including text, graphics, images, and information, contained in this video is for general information purposes only and does not replace a consultation with your own doctor/advanced practice provider. **
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I have a friend who lives near the family. She always says that Nadia is incredibly organized and her kids are very well kept. So sad she was portrayed so badly
i can imagine when you've got an army of kids you'd need to be well organised😅 but good on her for proving everyone wrong
How was she able to provide for them all? I had difficulty with just 3.
@TwylaGill if you mean financially I'd imagine she made quite a lot from her media appearances. Emotionally and energetically though, I have no clue lol that sounds like a nightmare to me but maybe it's easier for someone that likes being around kids.
@@TwylaGill she lived off shows/ tv appearances and apparently was also in the porn bussines (according to google) but has declared bankruptcy many times, has been on welfare and the house she had was taken by the bank
@@TwylaGillI remember seeing the Dr. Phil special on her and from what I remember, Nadia's mother went out of retirement and back to work to help provide for the kids. It was also mentioned that she received a lot in donations, like diapers and formula. Of course I don't know how much of that is true. There might be kernels of truth in there but of course this type of media is going to blow everything out of proportion.
Personally, I think that having that many children is hard to justify, but this video adds so much context to the situation! Nadia wanted one more kid, not eight. So I think it's very unfair to judge her so harshly for the mistakes her doctor made.
I would have to say, it is pretty hypocritical of society to demonize a woman for having many children, while also demonizing childless women. It's like you just cant win with these people.
It is ridiculous. Women "need" a husband for anything to be ok. If she had a super religious spouse people wouldn't be complaining
People were demonizing her for a good reason. She was a single mom and no job, no home, and she already had 6 other kids. Not to mention I have no idea how she was paying for all these IVF cycles. Why was she going and having another one when she had no way to support the 6 she already had? Let alone having 8 more kids. Part of the reason I think she was ever able to make it to where she is now is because of the octuplets. She got a ton of donations and job offers and help that she wouldnt have had had she not been in the news. It would have been more responsible to just not have more kids at all or until she could support the ones she already had, but she got really lucky here. There's tons and tons of other women who have 5, 6, 7, 10, 14 kids and they dont get famous, dont get jobs, and they and the kids end up living in poverty on welfare or the mom pawns off the kids on other people or they end up in foster care which could be avoided if we were responsible and didnt have kids we couldnt afford.
She was caught for defrauding welfare. People were upset that she was continuously doing IVF while living off taxpayer money.
I bristle at the idea that "society" is demonizing anyone. If recent history has proven anything it is that we are a society with wildly divergent views on things. Some people have opinions about childlessness, some people have opinions about huge families. None of these people represent society, just themselves.
You shouldn't have kids you can't afford.
I remember when this all came out. Initially, the media painted her as a hero. It wasn't until it came out that she already had six kids who were on medicaid, yet somehow had money to pay cash for ivf... THAT was when public opinion turned on her. My husband and I were broke at the time and had to fight to get our kids on medicaid. So while I don't begrudge her wanting a large family, it really burned, knowing that someone with enough money to afford not only one but multiple ivf cycles could qualify for medicaid when we were fighting to keep a roof over our head and food on the table and we were told we made too much for our kids to get coverage.
Exactly. And it is inherently self-serving/selfish to want that many kids; whether you can pay for them or not. I don't see why people don't see that.
@katelynbrown98 yeah. There is no way, that ANYONE, can properly give that many kids the appropriate amount of physical and emotional attention necessary for a healthy child development
@@katelynbrown98absolutely right, she is not just a victim here, she knew exactly what she was doing and it was incredibly selfish and irresponsible
I have one baby via IVF and would love a second one but am not financially stable for that. I already feel guilty having one in my teacher salary. Then there are families with multiple kids in financial hardships.
I don’t get how she was allowed to do that. Medicaid is only for people with extremely low income, or in some hardship like having a micro preemie.
The fact that he didn’t recommend psychiatric assessment when she toddles back for more while in the throes of newborn hell is screaming negligence.
It's almost like it was the doctor's idea and he was pressuring her.
Which I don't know that he was, but I also don't know that he wasn't
The media treatment of Nadia reminds me of how the media tore into the woman that sued McDonalds over the scalding coffee spilled in her lap. If you dont know the true story behind that one, I encourage looking it up.
Very true
Are you referring to the extremely hot coffee that literally melted an older womans skin? The coffee was proved to be several times hotter than it should, and if I recall correctly, she had to get surgery in order to help repair the damage.
Yep they tried to make it seem like it was her fault and it was just a money grab. When I saw the pictures that lady literally had 3rd degree burns. Coffee that hot should never be served how could you even drink that?
I literally had to explain that situation to someone last week. She made a comment about frivolous American lawsuits and I explained how bad it actually was. The media around that case was horris.
She was just trying to enjoy her life with a nice cup of coffee. They put her through unimaginable pain. It’s a miracle she even survived it A lot of young healthy people can be taken out by burns like that. She would have been right to sue for every penny after they did that.
Wait, she's 19 and gets to have a big family with risky procedures, but I'm 34 and apparently can't make an informed decision about NOT wanting a family? That's insane to me.
Edit: Some clarification seems to be needed: Yes, I'm already on BC. No I don't want kids but that's not the main reason I need the surgery. Health concerns are involved.
Who’s 19?
@@IKissingTheLiplessNadia at the time.
Making more cogs for The Capitalist Machine = yes. Depriving The Capitalist Machine the use of your functional cog maker = absolutely not.
her doctor lost his license to practice so I wouldn't be using this case as one to contrast yours against
Well of course, more babies mean more capitalist slaves and/or military fodder after all, you don't wanna be selfish and keep those potential cogs unborn right?
I'm glad you mentioned biochemical pregnancies. I've been pregnant 8 times that I know of, two lives births, 1 six weeks miscarriage (genetic testing showed a "normal male"), and the rest were chemical pregnancies. I was testing early because I was trying to get pregnant and they were really painful for me, emotionally. Not many people seem to know about them
chemical pregnancies are still miscarriages, it just means it wasn't seen on an ultrasound
Omg I knew she had children previous to the octoplets. Never knew how close the pregnancies were to each other. It must be a mircle she was able to complete all of her pregnancies. I can only imagine the stress her body went through.
So at 21 you can decide you want to get pregnant a billion times for a huge family that you’ll raise alone but at 31 you can’t decide you want to be childless for the rest of your life. Because what happens if your future husband wants children.
Make it make sense.
This! And the fact that a husband would be able to control my body. Make decisions for me, as if I was his property.
Because in the first scenario you are doing what the GOP wants and making yourself barefoot and pregnant and reliant on your husband for survival
to be fair, I don't know that a reasonable not greedy doctor would agree that at 21 you could make a decision like that
You wouldn't normally be able to decide this, none of this was ethical practice. But I guess if you want to volunteer like she did, to actually be the vessel that women are often viewed to be, then knock yourself out.
Nobody can.....I'm raising a family friend's kids right now because she can't. At 17, after her second kid, she asked for her tubes to be tied because she'd just had a heat stroke and delivered 3 months early. Her family was awful and she'd just left the bio dad because he wasn't mentally stable and she was afraid he'd hurt the kids. Before she left the hospital they told her if she got pregnant within the next three years, she could die. But they refused to tie her tubes. 4 months later, her IUD broke and she was pregnant again. She survived, but barely and her mental and physical health just got worse.
The looks I get when I tell people the ages of my kids and that "no, the 16 year olds aren't twins".....
"Nudge" is the word my ex used to use to describe how he'd shove me to the floor. I've heard other abusers use that word as well. Its very telling that this Dr used it to minimize his actions just like abusers do.
This
I'm so sorry that you were subjected to domestic abuse.
You did not deserve that horror.
I wish you safety, freedom, comfort, healing, strength, support, Light, Hope, peace, & _JUSTICE._
And--
_if you want it_
--a wonderful, devoted partner, who treats you with complete respect, honor, compassion, kindness, care, gentleness, friendship, romance, integrity, & decency,
(& to whom you give the same, of course)
who Loves you, utterly & completely,
& whom you Love, utterly & completely,
& with whom you have a wonderful, healthy, growing relationship,
& a very happy ever after.💗
God bless. ❤️.
government uses it too , when refering to propaganda.
Well said 👏🏻 same.
The whole situation is so messed up. I can't understand how a person who is unemployed and single can possibly afford multiple rounds of IVF. Most people can afford one or two rounds at most. It seems to me the doctor treated Nadia as a science experiment which is sickening.
That was my thought. Where was all her money coming from?!
I'd say it was worse than treating her like a science experiment, because in a science experiment you're at least trying to learn something. He was treating her like a cash cow. He was getting payments from every stim cycle, every oocyte retrieval procedure, and frozen embryo storage. (Which is probably why he had her do so many new stim cycles instead of trying to use the already-frozen embryos.)
But that does bring up the question of where Nadya was getting all that money from.
Some people are born with trust funds. I don’t know her situation but that’s not unheard of.
@@jathompson37 she had a legal settlement due to back injury, apparently.
I wonder if he gave her “discounted” rates so she’d be able to see him more regularly
My mom did IVF with Dr. Kamrava to conceive me in 1996 (I was born early 1997). He transferred 3 embryos and casually said she could have triplets, which my mom absolutely did not want and made that clear. From what I've heard from her, it's unclear if my mom fully consented to the 3 embryo transfer or if he fully explained the likelihood of triplets that could have happened from it. Luckily only one stuck, but it was still so wild to see when this happened.
Poor Nadia. She was clearly taken advantage of and the media acted like it was all her fault and that she was a terrible mom. I hope things have gotten easier for her.
She was taking advantage of others too, and putting herself out there.
Let's not pretend she has zero culpability here.
Nah she was criticized for good reason. She was a single mom and no job, no home, and she already had 6 other kids. Hr parents had to com out of retirement to help fund her brood. Not to mention how she was paying for all these IVF cycles. Why was she going and having another one when she had no way to support the 6 she already had? Lots of other women who have 8 or more kids dont get famous, dont get jobs, and they and the kids end up living in poverty on welfare becaus they don't get donations from gullibl strangers.
@@loner1878or they get their own show briefly on tlc like -John&-Kate +8
@@noelletakesthesky3977Explain please
Given Nadia's extreme aversion to the destruction of embryos, it's absolutely criminal to ignore the frozen embryos for fresh ones. She was 100% a cash cow for him. Also, did he ever mention embryo donation? There are plenty of people struggling with infertility who would love to give the little snowflake embryos a loving home. There's absolutely no reason Nadia needs to have all of them transferred to her uterus to give them lives. That's the same concept as stuffing yourself with extra food because you don't want it to go to waste, essentially becoming a human garbage disposal (or a human incubator in Nadia's case).
So "loving" that they won't adopt living children. Screw 'em.
@@wmdkitty Snowflake adoption is cheaper than the regular adoption and some want to have the experience of giving birth and breastfeeding a baby even if that baby is not genetically theirs.
@@wmdkittyyou know how corrupt the adoption industry is right? that type of adoption will have a lot of unethical practices
I have extended family members who were adopted embryos!
The true adoption (and foster) system is an absolute mess. I’m glad that embryo adoption helps people become parents!
@mdlazova You watched the same video? Talking about her first cycle being at 19 and it being up to dozen stim cycles by her late 20s? That the high embryo retrieval rate meant peri-menopause wasn't a feasible diagnosis? The doctor performing these fertility treatments was highly unethical and performing retrieval at way too close an interval to each other let alone birth?
OK. Just checking, same video?
The fact that he keeps trying to push the blame on Nadya saying "Well she insisted" "She wanted to do this and that". Ok. IS SHE THE DOCTOR?! Any medical professional with an ounce of integrity would refuse patients "demands" if they deem it unsafe or against guidelines. I can tell my doc I want to get my kneecaps removed because I don't like them. They don't have to agree to it.
Just proves he wanted more money out of her.
I do find it extremely irresponsible already to keep agreeing to start IVF again 2-3 months after she gave birth, but WOW.
I remember seeing a news conference where her parents BEGGED the doctor to stop getting her pregnant!
I remember when Octomum had her babies. We watched the stuff about her and I asked my dad why they transferred 6, not 1. My dad explained how the pregnancy rarely takes so they transfer a few extra. Because of his explanation I was really confused by how people treated her. I'm glad I was educated on the topic by my dad who is very logical. He figured she was just unlucky/lucky by having it take so well and that isn't on her.
She was also unlucky in the timing, cause this was around when Jon & Kate + 8 was on TV, so people thought she was doing it to try and get her own tv show/series.
I had a similar thought as your dad when I head about her as well. I couldn't understand why people were judging her so hard.
Yes how was people so dumb
IVF preggo here, it's also possible to transfer a single embryo and get multiples (mine split into twins)! About 1 in 50 embryos will split into two or more.
Dude my cousin had her IVF and came out with twins where were from two eggs. The story is that her husband has a genetic condition he didn't want to pass down, given his fantastic job he was able to afford the science to help make sure that wouldn't happen. My cousin was 100% on board if that is what it took for them both to have happy and healthy kids. After the process, and they impregnated her she sadly had miscarriage and a few more after that. She miscarried all her eggs. They were down to only two and this was to be their last shot at having kids because this had been torment for them both. The doctor decided to try something and put BOTH in her WITH their permission.
They went to get the ultrasound and they found her body took one of the eggs for sure and they carried on. Eventually they went to another appointment and that is when they found out they were having two not just the one. Her body had taken both of her last eggs and she managed to carry them both all the way through.
It has been a few years since their birth but they are both happy and intelligent children with a hunger for life. My cousin and her husband are still together and loving their lives as parents after they fought so hard for it.
IVF is amazing.
I grew up in rural midwest, and all I heard at that time at like 12 was "what a leech on the system" she was. "She only had all those kids for government paychecks every month for life and 15 minutes of fame."
I also knew of and still know of families with like 10 kids or more who were super religious, and nobody bats an eye.
It's so sad. All props to her for caring for so many AND handling the slander because I could never.
People absolutely bat eyes about those fundy families with scads of kids.
That sounds racist as hell! You have a problem with Hispanic women having children?! The doctor is at fault here, if she was YT, you would say she’s a victim, but typical bigoted YT people spewing nonsense cause they don’t want the Latinos to “take their Jobs!” Go to Florida if you don’t want to live in the real world!
If you have a mother and a father and the means to provide for your giant religious brood then have at it. This is a single woman raising 14 kids on welfare and she paid for the fertility treatments using student loans. Yes I judge
@@lee3171If she was raising them on welfare, how did she afford the medical bills?
Hello, from New Zealand. I'm one of 9 children. Our parents were utterly devoted & in love with each other from the moment they clapped orbs on each other, until the moment our dad closed his eyes at 92 years old. They worked hard, were strict Catholics, & never, ever took a bean from anyone else. I'm so proud of their love story, & although none of us have had huge families, I'd not have had it any other way. Please try to be kind to others, as you have no idea how incredible some people are, even though their choices aren't for you
“Hey I hate sleeping, let’s do this again” exactly my feelings MDJ 😂😂
That doctor is criminal! Can you even imagine all the hormone roller coaster, the wear and tear on her body and her mental cycle. Unreal!
“We try to help mother nature..”
No, he tried to help his wallet and nothing more. Helping mother nature doesnt end at losing your license!
Lowkey wondering if it's some kind of fetish like that IVF doctor who only used his own semen for all patients. He is gaining no extra money by planting 8, 12 embryos instead of 5, only risking his license. I think he got bored getting away with treating Nadia like that for years so he upped the ante and indulged in his sick fantasies
How was she even paying him? Was she a successful career woman? She was 20 when this started right? Was her family rich??
@morgan4574 I know!!! That's what I'm thinking. It's very bizarre. I don't understand how she afforded it all to begin with. I thought part of her reasoning was that she didn't grow up with a loving, or large family? Plus she seemed fertile. Was it just the initial implantation she had issues with? I'm not sure why she had IVF so young anyways?
Even if she “insisted” on transferring 12, she’s a patient not a medical professional, and she might be thinking “well, if 8 embryos didn’t result in a pregnancy, maybe we’ll just do the 12 and it’ll work ok, I might even get twins” which tbh is something I might have assumed if I’ve done this over and over with only 1 baby every time (except the twins) and sometimes no babies.
I had the same thought. Having mentioned she realky wanted twins, I have to believe she did indeed authorize the 12 transfer, based on how the 5 and 6 transfers resulted in 1. Both parties are guilty on various levels IMO. I don't think she's a saint, nor he the devil. I think he was driven by $$$ and she by obsession with babies. Bad combo.
@@jolie7neige he exploited and took advantage of her. As the doctor he was the one with duty of care. Yet when she came to him saying she had a $165,000 settlement from suffering a back injury at her job, and that she wanted a large family, it seems he had dollar signs in his eyes, and was going to cash in.
my inf doctor highly advised against twins. i was also not wanting twins. it is very risky. she was taken advantage of. her doc DID know better.... but chose to continue with his experiment to the insane detriment of a woman and ALL her kids. i also vilified her. for years. until a few years ago.
It’s a reasonable assumption I would come to as well if 8 only result in 1.
I still have to wonder if something different was done that last time to any of the others or if it really was luck of the draw.
I really think that doctor did not know what the heck he was doing.
He used this young woman as his personal experimental guinea pig.
When a single mom has 6 babies in 5 years, and then 8 infants, how does she even take them to school without leaving other children at home? Does she drive a bus?
Did your children's school not of a bus service? Most public schools have a bus system parents dont have to drive their kids
@@matteusconnollius1203ok then, how does she take them to sports practice? Birthday parties? Shopping? Literally anywhere.
I know a lot of “bigger” families would split their kids across two cars, but if she is a single mom then that’s not an option
@@jasmineanaheraDoes your city have nothing in walking distance? Public transport?
Serious question. I have heard that American citied are often planned atrociously, so you need to have a car.
@@JuMiKu I don’t live in America.
As we went through the timeline, I kept thinking how in the heck did her body handle all this? My last two kids were back to back, literally born 11 months apart, and now...nearly 18 years later I am still having health problems because of it. Back, hips, knees, sciatica, and more...just because i had two kids so close together. She is barely going to be able to move when shes my age.
The info going around at the time of their birth is that she was on disability for a work related injury. So she was not in great shape for pregnancies regardless.
This!! Her poor body. Would be interesting to see how her body is fairing now... Three babies destroyed me 😅
Thought the same! I’m on my third pregnancy (a surprise) in 4 years. My body is struggling SO MUCH this time, I can’t imagine having so many babies let alone so close!
She had abdominal reconstruction and lots of plastic surgery, so that's why!
Not only the pregancies. The IVF cycle is also very hard. I've had three for egg cell donation, and after those three I've had enough. I can't fathom doing 11 (or was it 12?)
Had a friend in the 90's who had IVF - they had quite a few embryos transferred. She carried 5 babies to 24 weeks. All five were delivered by C-section, but only one came home several months later. It was bittersweet, but the friend was forever scarred by the experience.
That's so so sad 😢
I'm happy for her that at least one lived, but that's so many babies she lost 😢
I would be forever scarred, too.
Losing that many would be heartbreaking, and I'm a sensitive person as is so I'd never be the same again.
ag man, that is awful. for her, and her family. i had ivf in 2015. i am glad times have changed. i was REALLY coached on a 2nd embryo, and only did on the 2nd try. I think the science knows better. but the nadia suleman's doc.... oh hell he knew better. and he knew better when all embryos implanted.... :(
So irresponsible of her doctor to do that to her 😢
Woah that’s so sad no wonder the Catholic Church is against ivf too many lives can potentially be at stake
But she was only 19! When ppl that "young" get married, everyone freaks out. But to go through all these pregnancies so close together? You can't say she doesn't have some of the blame
Yeah, but we don't know how sane she is.
The doctors have an ethical responsibility, however.
Thank you so so much for closed captioning!
How in the world was she expected to be having clear thoughts and not be whacked out with postpartum brain, lack of sleep, hormonal yuck, with so many stim cycles and pregnancies back to back? I mean, people say she consented and all, but was she really in ner right mind?
I don't get how one would want another baby right after having one!
My thought too as I'm half way through this is who wouldn't be a little unhinged with so many hormone fluctuations and lack of sleep?
@@CreamIceMs For medical reasons, I need to have my children early in life. So I had three babies in four years. It wasn’t easy but they are all so precious. PS ended up adopting three more. Life is good!
She was not what would be considered legally incompetent, and that's a hard line we need to keep where it is. But I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out Dr. Sleaze was putting some serious pressure on her and manipulating her to get her to do it like this.
@@kathrynsmith2114I agree with you, I think we should be really careful about suggesting new parents can't consent to medical decisions! But also recognise it's a very vulnerable time when people are acutely emotionally raw.
"I really hate sleeping, let's do this again." She just cracks me up, but she sure does get down to the bottom line!
Thanks a lot for covering it. The story is outrageous and you are awesome!
First, I LOVE your videos! They are so friendly and informative. I am curious to know why a female can go through great lengths to have a bunch of children in succession without psychological evaluation and why a female who doesn't want children and requests a tubal is required to be evaluated by a psychologist. Please share if you have the info. I am baffled.
As an IVF mom, I was paying very close attention to this story when it first hit the news back in the day. But until today I had no idea she had so many FRESH cycles!
I just assumed she had a whole bunch of leftover frozen embryos that she felt obligated to transfer with multiple pregnancies, and the ridiculous numbers transferred each time were only because of the previous failed cycles.
she was most def hyperstimulated. that should have been an immediate red flag to her provider. she would have had a lot of frozens. she was def taken advantage of.
@@ninetanyas -- Even spontaneously-conceived singleton pregnancies can become dangerous situations, and it is already a miracle that most moms and babies get through the entire process with minimal to no complications. But include the additional risks of IVF, and it is beyond shocking that he practiced this way for so long.
Its crazy how many embryos she was getting.
How rhe hell did he rationalize in his mind the fact she was morally opposed to destroying frozen embryos yet agreed to fetal reduction??!
He was daft and a liar, and/or maybe her exact convictions shifted from the start of this all to the end.
Who was his staff? As a medical assistant seeing her come through so many times I'd have reported him myself. Who sits and watches this and thinks yeah this is probably fine.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 perhaps her thinking was those frozen embryos had a chance, potentially for donation, whereas she was fine with embryo reduction because multiple gestation comes with a much higher risk to her health, and a higher likelihood of maternal fatality. It would be cruel and selfish to put herself at such risk to her earthside children.
He was thoroughly lying. Look at the discrepancy between frozen embryos, and it starts to make sense. All those rounds of stimulation, and she thought she only had 6 frozen. She actually had 29. Keep in mind, IVF often fails. And often doesn't produce as many embryos. She, as the client, wants the best chance of a successful pregnancy. But all she knows is what the doctor is telling her in terms of numbers. Which is that she's having around 6 implanted per successful pregnancy, and, given how many she thinks she had frozen at the end, occasionally freezes an extra one. She's agreeing to extra stim cycles because she has no clue she's paying for as many frozen as she is. She thinks 6 is the normal amount to implant for success, and that only at the end did she have enough frozen to implant that many. And that when all of that round made it, with two "splitting," she was just blessed with unusual luck. By that point, she's had years of experiences, with numbers completely controlled by the doctor, that support this perspective.
And this is assuming the record isn't lying about how many they implanted just to up her costs. They lied about how many she had frozen so that she would pay for that, but also still pay for the stim cycle. She came to them saying she wanted 10 kids, and they knew that meant a long term customer. So they lied to milk her for her money. And she trusted them because it worked.
That's assuming she ever actually agreed and that he wasn't just lying to try and pretend he was doing things right. Remember, we KNOW he lied about how many embryos he was implanting. That makes literally everything else he was claiming suspect.
Fantastic coverage of this abused topic. Retired now, & love your energy and delivery.
How can a parent especially single, be emotionally available to that many kids. There were times when I didn't think I was there enough for only 3 kids
Dr. Jones needs to start a reproductive-medicine-centered true crime podcast. Her presentation style is great ☺
Yes! Similar to Bailey Sarian where she also talks about historical events. This would be great for educating people on this type of history, most don’t know much of anything
I agree with both of you!! That would be amazing!!
14:30 “You know what? I reallly hate sleeping. I think we should do this again.” 😂😂😂
Id watch that
Mama doctor Jones is medical mr Ballen lol
Honestly - a sane doctor would have turned around to a woman who was a few weeks postpartum wanting another baby and book her in for psychiatric evaluation.
I’m only starting to consider the next one and my kid is nearly 2!
Thank you so much for researching and sharing this side of the story.
I love that you got so passionate I had to check if my playback speed was normal
This makes me so uneasy. She was clearly mislead about the process. With such high stakes (parenting is hard even with two kids!!) I can't believe someone would be so reckless.
I can’t even imagine doing all these stim cycles. I did 2, 4 years apart and they both SUCKED. Also, I can’t imagine agreeing to implanting all those embryos at once. I barely agreed to do 2 at once, and that was because we had 4 single embryo failures. And it turned out to be a bad decision, with a super complicated twin pregnancy 😫
I hope you got your twins in the end after all that. Goddamn!
same, fellow ivf mom. and my doctors and clinic would NEVER allow it. i was allowed the option of 2 after a failure to implant. i'm sorry your pregnancy was so hard. i don't think normal people get how effing dangerous pregnancy is. TO ALL women, esp with multiples.
@@availanila One of my twins passed away shortly after birth, but now I have two wonderful IVF babies ❤️
I had 2 stim cycles in 3 months, just because the 1st one failed completely. It was hell. It sucked so badly, I hoped my transfer failed so I can have a few months rest (it didn't fail. I'll give birth to my babygirl in 2 weeks :) ).
I can't imagine what Nadia went through.
@@LillireifySo you're having a baby that you hoped would have died?! Ugh
Last I was aware Nadia would not name her sperm donor but said that she knows who he is. I’m almost wondering… Is the doctor the sperm donor?? There was another case of a fertility doctor using his own sperm to impregnate his clients. It would explain why he seemed so driven to implant more and more embryos inside of her and freeze them without her knowledge.
Your breakdown of this was so interesting! Horrendous but very interesting. Would love to see other multiple breakdowns like this where the MD has lost their license to practice (if they’re out there). Thanks for all your hard work to explain it to us!
I was on mega hormones and the most eggs I ever made was 3. None to freeze. 3 years fertility treatments. One pregnancy resulting in twins!💓
I have questions. 😐 Where did the money for all of this come from? What about the money to raise and support the babies? How did this get so out of control? He was clearly taking advantage of her. Isn't there family counseling involved in these decisions? Who is the "father"?
Poor her, poor babies.
I have another question - did he do this to other people? Obviously not on this scale, but having more stem cycle(s) for 2nd pregnancy even though there were frozen embryos from before or implanting too many embryos (even for first pregnancy). I simply cannot believe that Nadya was the only one he misled and put in danger, because he did it to her repeatedly, it was simply his MO.
We didn't have any "family counseling" before IVF, and she likely used donor sperm
I remember she once said the sperm donor was a friend of hers. They had an agreement
I thought ivf cycles were $30,000 each or more. If she’s not married and sitting around popping out babies and not working then how could she keep paying for it? Credit cards?
Apparently she got a back injury at work that paid out around $80,000 and got family inheritance too which she used for IVF. The father is apparently a friend who donated the sperm for her IVF treatments.
In 2004 my mom did IVF with for my twin sister and I. The doctor said my parents should put all six eggs in but my mom said no bc she didn't want to risk having six children. She settled on two and we both made it. I can't I imagine if she actually put in all six
I'm subscribing because of your reaction to this case. Thank you and love the content.
We did IUI in 2011, a few years after that. When we looked at IVF, the standard of care was switching from double embryo to single embryo. If you couldn't afford multiple rounds, double embryo was still recommended. More than 2 was not generally done, according to our doctor, by 2011, a few years after this story.
It's still the current standard of Care. Transfer ONE embryo. Maybe two, depending on the patient's history.
@@toxicginger9936 I mean obviously the standard of care has not increased since then. Nor is it going to go below 1. My point was that was the time 1 embryo was becoming the standard.
I hope you were able to have the family you wanted, regardless of how it happened medically. Have gone through a similar journey and I know it can be hard. You're brave for using your own story to help people to understand this better.💜
I think this case was a turning point in guidelines, the success of IVF is also higher than it was in the early days (the justification for lots of transfers was that only one or two would take).
@@hannahk1306 Yeah, when I looked at it, the odds of 1 taking were getting better, but still not fantastic. The odds of twinning were half the odds of success... which was true for every intervention. Which led me to conclude that the odds of twins is 50%. My doctor had always looked at the odds of twins and the odds of success independently. And I don't know if those odds always lined up that way, do maybe it was only at that time. But she acknowledged that yes, if you have a successful pregnancy, the odds are 50/50 it'll be twins.
Now that they typically implant only 1, that is certainly no longer true with IVF. We used IUI though... and we have twins.
I feel like corruption in the Healthcare system is often an overlooked part when people talk about corruption. It's a shame such things are being allowed to happen and often not dislocated at all hiding in the shadow, I just wish there was a way to know what doctors are corrupt so we can remove them
I don't know if state Department of Health complaints are public, or state medical board decisions, but that's the place to look.
The fact that puberty blockers and hacking off perfectly healthy body parts off of children is a thing shows how corrupt it is.
@@dirtbagdeaconAssuming people have made reports. I had a couple of fiercely corrupt doctors when I was a kid, way before it was easy to report them. Nowadays, I have PTSD, and they're dead. No, I did not kill them.
Absolutely. There's a lot of improper practice. My biggest fear is getting ill at my job. There are people that I would be horrified if they took care of me.
The fact that you were so enraged you tapped your head(an equivilant to flipping the bird) when you usually are so calm and sweet really shows how absurd and insane this situation is.
Love your content❤
I love your channel. You are hilarious. Thank you for doing this video. The media destroyed this woman, and I believed all of it.
I seriously think that this is a case where you have a patient who was clearly in need of mental health services combined with a doctor who was extremely negligent. It's like throwing a lit match on gasoline.
Wanting a large family doesn't mean you need mental health help. Even if you're doing cycles so soon after giving birth. I'd be willing to bet the Dr told her it would have a higher chance of success if she did cycles so soon after having a baby.
I'm far more concerned with his obvious financial exploitation of her and her family. The cost of 1 cycle was at least $20k, and she did this how many times?
@@elisharoberts1029there's a big difference between wanting a large family and being obsessed with making babies. It's pretty clear she was obsessed with making babies. Large families happen over years, they don't happen because you decided to have six kids in 6 years with no legal father and no stable income. It's like saying the duggars were interested in a large family when it's pretty obvious they've only been interested in making babies. It's why they don't even raise their own kids, they make their children do it. The larger your family is the more you will have to rely on other people especially your children to do work that you should be doing as a parent.
When you're having a large family this is a consideration you need to make. It's also one that should give you great pause because it's not just you. It's your kids' lives too. Most people should not be having large families as most people cannot adequately care for them without relying on children to do the work.
I don't know, when I was 18 years old I would have said all the same things she did, I was planning on having at least 12 children lol. Luckily for me, I didn't have the funds for a predatory doctor to try and take advantage of me. I don't think she was crazy, I think she was young and lied to.
I do wonder, MDJ mentioned she'd had a miscarriage shortly before going to him, I wonder if he uses that against her and if it played into how she felt about the embryos
@@elisharoberts1029 Wanting to have, and purposely having that many children is negligent. A single person can not give that many children proper support no matter how good of a mother they may be.
@@wylmtysfabsolutely they can. However, these babies were already on Medicaid and other financial services at the time so it wasn't so much about love and attention as it was She was doing this without being able to solely financially sustain them. You see children in huge families growing up to be loving, caring and responsible adults all the time. How do you think people did this before birth control?
26:15 Okay, let’s back up here. Being in need of mental healthcare is not indicative of being an unfit mother. I see what MDJ is saying here, but we need to be careful not to fall into the trap of saying “it’s unfair to say she needed mental healthcare, because from what I can see, she’s fine.”… sure. But mental illness does not automatically equal unreasonable.
It’s not my business as to whether or not Nadia needed mental health care… but there are some serious red flags here.
She approached her doctor about doing repeat transfers shortly after giving birth. She should have never received that kind of care, but rushing right into more and more pregnancies as a single mom, feels a lot like hypomania.
The way she was treated by the media is absolutely disgusting, but let’s not swing so far in the opposite direction that we say her decisions as a parent were perfectly reasonable.
Obviously the only reason she’s subject to this sort of scrutiny is because she was taken advantage of by a terrible doctor. Being BP2, I sure as hell wouldn’t want the entire world to have access to my history.
But mental illness presents a lot of different ways. We should be normalizing mental healthcare for new moms regardless of how many kids they have. We could reduce the impact of PPD if everyone had the support and early intervention they need.
"Being in need of mental healthcare is not indicative of being an unfit mother" (I agree!).
"hypomania" & "Let’s not swing so far in the opposite direction that we say her decisions as a parent were perfectly reasonable".. so you are in fact implying that she may have been mentally unwell and that made her a poorer parent?
Also speculating about her mental state and what symptoms she may have had is so problematic.
@@mashthebanana being unfit, and making decisions as a result of mental illness are very different things. My point is that writing mental illness off as being something that would deem her an unfit parent, is wrong. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect us. Quite the contrary, seeing as mental illness can be so severe that it is disabling.
But writing it off because she’s a good mom is not okay.
And I’m only speculating because I’ve been there. I’m not saying that’s what she was experiencing. I’m just saying that there may have been something that impacted her decision to have as many kids as she did in a short amount of time. That says nothing of her as a person or a parent.
Again, I am saying this in the most general sense, that saying mental illness shouldn’t not be considered because anyone functions a certain way, is problematic. It plays into the idea that mental illness looks a certain way.
Yeah there's definitely something off about how close together she had these kids... Idk much about pregnancy and hormones in people but I know in horses they go into "foal heat" not long after their foal is born which basically makes them even MORE fertile, leading to an endless loop until death. I wonder if postpartum hormones can put humans into the same kind of mindset.
@@mashthebananaI don't think op is trying to say it made her a less fit parent necessarily, but I do think she may have at least had some form of being unwell that made her more vulnerable to being preyed upon by the doctor. She was a total cash cow to him, I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow talked her into having all those kids in such quick sucession. Maybe bringing up how she should try to have all 10 of her wanted children as young as possible to avoid potential effects from pregnancy at an older age.
i dont think it rly even matters if she has mental health issues or not, if shes mentally healthy its still good to have that kind of support during a new and challenging situation
Thank you for this video! ☺💐
I am a huge fan and love all of your videos. But this is hands down my favorite ever!
I have no idea where all this money must have been coming from. Someone I know is going through IVF due to infertility and they are paying around $30k for one full round (everything from preemptive tests to egg retrieval to embryo transfer). Now they have some embryos frozen so they will hopefully never have to do another full retrieval, but that's so much money.
I literally just got a job at Amazon a few days ago just to cover more IVF for me. Sadly, I have no living children and just really want a family. I’ve already done 2 IVF cycles, two failed transfers, and 3 IUI out of pocket. Tell your friend about Amazon or Starbucks - they have fertility coverage.
@@mandaskillz she's actually considered getting a job at Starbucks for that reason! I'm so sorry you're going through this ❤️.
It really boggles my mind when I think about this woman. She already had 6 children one of them with special needs. She was single and for some reason she thought another pregnancy was the right thing to do.
I would imagine it came from infertility trauma. The wish to get as many “sucesses” as possible due to this trauma.
@@vintereventyr_that’s such a good point! i can sort of understand that- after going through a miscarriage recently, my way of coping is to try to get pregnant again as soon as possible. desperate and hopeless feelings can make us do silly things i guess
Appreciate your posts!!!
Greetings from your newest fan in West Virginia ! …I Admire you for the wonderful videos. Keep them coming 😁
As someone who has done IVF, with ONE stim cycle (that I felt absolutely HORRENDOUS during and for a week after, to the point where I delayed my embryo transfer for a cycle because I felt SO terrible that I thought if I got pregnant right away I wouldn’t be able to handle it) this is NUTS!! Also, I did IVF instead of IUI as I was terrified of multiples (a friend of mine had triplets from IUI when I was doing my treatments), so I made sure (and my doctor agreed) that only 1 embryo got transferred. Thankfully it worked as I had no money left to do another transfer (never mind another stim cycle!)
Yeah, I have done one egg retrieval and it sucked. I did have mild ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome, so couldn't do a fresh transfer. My second frozen transfer took, thankfully, so I don't see any future where I do another retrieval.
“Is fetal reduction allowed post-Roe” was a question in the live chat and I have to say I’ve never thought about that.
What happens in situations like that?
It's a very good question, because 'fetal reduction' is in fact an abortion of one or more of the fetuses.
So depending on the state the mother lives in, it would be illegal.
From what I've seen it usually happens in weeks 7-8, so depending on the state, no it wouldn't be since many trigger laws give the cut off at 6 weeks ("fetal heartbeat"). Weeks 8-10 have the highest rate of miscarriage, but there'd be documentation of a medical procedure which is, in effect, an abortion per state law. And while they could argue that a procedure is necessary for the life of the mother and the other unborn children, I don't see that argument being successful with the idiot politicians in office who clearly deem themselves experts on the subject of reproduction and how a woman's body works.
Mama Doctor Jones, I love seeing this side of you getting all riled up. It makes it clear just how much you care for patients, even when they are not yours.
I think “Octomom” either had a breeder kink or loved the attention she got from being pregnant. Going into those pregnancies back to back like that is insane all by itself. She barely had time to care for and bond with the infants she already birthed!
The biggest thing I remember from the news coverage was people being mad that she was on wellfare. Apparently she lied about her income to get help, but before knowing that I couldn't understand why she would even try to have one more kid when she was already needing help from the government.
Who makes up the medical board? How do they decide when doctors have gone to far? I don’t really understand who is responsible for holding doctors accountable.
Other doctors. The medical board is kind of like defending your thesis as a PhD major, they review the case and anything related to the case, you as a doctor defend your decisions, and then the board makes a decision based on that. In my opinion it's not a great system.
@@Fizzypopization so it’s like the Supreme Court of medicine? Who decided what doctors sit on the medical board? Are they just expected to use up to date medical research to make the decisions on what is unacceptable or unethical?
@chickenortheegg well kind of? But for ethics it's really just that...following your ethics
@@chickenortheegg i looked up "medical board us" (since we're talking about the us) and i clicked on the first result, AMBC (?? dont remember). it says that certified board practitioners are members of the board (MDJ almost always says shes a board certified obgyn, so i would understand taht shes technically part of the board specialized in gynecology). from that info, i would tend to undestand that anyone certified by a board of X or Y specialty has a say in a issue tied to their specialty ?
i did try to literally ask "who are the medical board members in us" but welp, nothing seemingly relevant showed up so... yea. if you're american, i guess you can worry about the lack of immediate information on this topic.
@@gh0stly_retr048 yes but ethics is debatable especially in IVF. For example sex selection IVF is still debated. It’s just interesting to me where these rules come from and who decides.
This is the most insane math question that I have ever heard.
Hi MDJ! Love the content! Just wanted to let you know that under your "medical topics" playlist, there's a video showing up from another channel called "beyond evil" Seemed weird, and thought I'd let you know!
"I can't..." "I just ..." "I ... it's .... uh ...." the sputtering is cracking me up but this poor woman was raked over the coals of cruelty ... perhaps one of the MOST bullied online and in person of all time. I'm glad you are doing this segment. Everyone ignored or mocked her. She was SO young and didn't know.
You mentioned a miscarriage. I wonder if she was very traumatised by that. That would explain the endless pregnancies and the desire not to destroy embryos
She was a single woman with no means of support, who was ok with getting pregnant every year, and using student loans to pay for her fertility treatments. Was she mentally stable? I don't think so. Maybe she didn't have to be referred to mental health help by any medical standard, but any normal doctor would raise eyebrows at what she was voluntarily doing in her early twenties. FYI she was interviewed about how she paid for the fertility treatments and said she used student loan money for it. Which makes sense because what single woman at 21 has that kind of money
She is a spectacular mother!! Has done a few more recent interviews with he and her children. Crap, she is amazing and those kids are all so amazing. Well spoken, loving and just great children. She has done what she set out to do, be a great parent...She did struggle but very much turned it all around.
I'm curious who the actual swimmer donor is. Anyone in the DCP (donor conceived persons) community suspicious that it's actually the doctor? The fertility industry is a horrible place that lacks any sort of legal regulation at the federal level. If you are a DCP or are the product of IVF where the intention was using both parents genetic material, it is strongly urged that you do genetic testing to help prevent accidental incest and unaliving from unknown genetic conditions.
MDJ, I'd really like to see you cover this topic. Perhaps go on Insemination, a podcast that is the brainchild of Laura High, "your donor conceived person of tiktok" that features stories of DCPs and Recip parents and those trying to change the fertility industry for the better. The lack of legislation and what that can mean for DCPs or IVF babies conceived at unscrupulous clinics is astounding. Even the basics of right to medical history is denied by most fertility clinics and that can be a death sentence.
yes, i've wondered whether the crazy, corrupt fertility doctor decided that he should be the swimmer donor without telling her. that would certainly explain his obsession with hoarding and implanting so many embryos.
She's publicly said the Donor is a friend of hers.
@@katiekorell9776 that actually doesn’t matter. There are too many to count cases of fertility doctors swapping out the chosen swimmer sample. It’s disgusting and not at all illegal.
@Chaotic_Pixie, you bring up some good points. I'd like to see MDJ look into that as well.
@@katiekorell9776that doesn't mean that he was actually using the dna her donor provided. Considering the number of embryos created it's not impossible.
How in the world did she pay for all these, like I knew a lady working at a very large software company whose entire salary would go towards IVF and they lived off her wife's salary. And then there's all these pregnancies and babies. IVF is money, storage is money, rent, childcare, etc, etc.
it’s insane they tried to paint her as unstable. she really did just want a big family, of course she would keep having kids as long as doctors weren’t stopping her. the onus was on her medical team to figure out an advisable cut off, but he was too greedy to do that and she caught the flack for it
also, ooooo the neon sign’s a fetus- i was staring at it the first five mins thinking it was some kinda messed up pug
good video gorl!
It's insane to paint her as stable for trying to fill the void after her divorce with children.
Only half way through and god this is so concerning .... I feel like this isn't just "I want a big family" mostly because of the lacks of breaks...... Poor thing
Living in Canada and working with a ob/gyne/fertility doctor I have to say that my perspective has always been that her doctor had some sort of alterior motives that Nadia wasn't aware of. I may be wrong but I think we have laws in Canada preventing doctors from transplanting more than 4 embryos at a time. So when this story broke one of the first things talked about in our office was whether or not this doctor was going to lose his license and if he was going to jail lol. We were in complete shock and honestly prayed that he had transplanted 4 embryos that had resulted in 4 sets of twins. But another thought that came later was that Nadia may have been the perfect guinea pig for this wannabe pioneer to come out with new practices that would make him famous due to her desire and willingness to be pregnant and have a large family. And as for his practice of doing fresh retrievals instead of making use of the frozen embryos could be due to the cost. I am pretty sure that it's more expensive to do fresh retrievals then the implantation of frozen embryos.
4? i had to sign with my clinic that it's against doctor recommendation to transfer 2 and that i was aware of the risks. and that's default wording in documents, i only transfered the one
Thank you for setting the record straight. Many of us remember the time when all of this was in the news and feel sad for everything she went through
Hello, nice to meet you, I'm new around here. I've enjoyed about 4 of your videos in the last 2 days. This one is shocking, I'm a registered nurse 27 years. Wow, just wow, i'd like to know. Where is the man that's involved in all these babies? If they're even is one, and how does she afford all of this? And is my curiosity a little too pushy? And trying to get in her business. I'm not sure, but those are my 2 big questions. Thank you for your videos. They've been quite entertaining and educational.
How did she afford all this before all the donations started coming in? I think I remember her needing help to afford them, but I didn’t realize she had soooooooo much fertility treatments. I thought she had a few kids and then an ooopsy! With IVF
How was she able to afford all of this? I went through one stim cycle and two frozen transfers that cost tens of thousands of dollars.
That's my question too. Especially since it doesn't appear that she had a partner throughout most of this.
That's my question also.
From USA Today: “Suleman worked for a state mental hospital in 1999 when she said she suffered a back injury during an inmate riot. She went on to collect more than $165,000 in disability payments and used some of the money to help pay for in-vitro fertilization treatments that produced her first six children.”
@@Wendyroo6817All those pregnancies could not have been kind to her back.
@@Wendyroo6817 Well I guess that could do part of it, but were there more disability payments to come after this? Did she inherit something?
I’ve been diving into this since your livestream about it. He’s exactly the reason people distrust or are afraid of doctors. Horrifying 😢
cudos to your editor, I love how your videos are put together (and the content as well but this is obvious I think 😉)
Wow. This was a wild ride.
So messed up on so many levels.
Overseas this was just a little blimp in the news like: "this woman just had 8 kids isn't that crazy?" 😮
But I never heard anything about the doctor or the level of malpractice that had lead to that.
Wow.
I do think another aspect that was troubling was that she was struggling financially, but still chose to expand her family beyond the six kids she already was having trouble supporting. Once she added 8 more children, she needed public assistance to survive, both from donations and from the taxpayers.
It’s awesome to want a big family and anyone who wants one is certainly entitled to have one. To ask others, including taxpayers, to financially support that choice right from the start because you’re unable to seems less than a responsible choice.
He absolutely influenced her and mislead her into making those decisions to do those cycles. If he told her once that she was "premenopausal" then who knows what else he might've told her to make her feel like she needed to do all those stim cycles and transfers
And she was well aware that she could reduce her fetuses... it was a better option.
I was 20 when she had the octuplets. I had no idea it was IVF at the time- the news stations I watched at the time didn't mention it. I thought it was natural. It bring IVF is terrifying.
I heard it was fertility drugs which i thought was like a pill at the time
Even without context of everything that happened, he gives me creeper vibes. I feel so bad for Nadia! I hope he gets everything he deserves
He's still at it today at WCIVF: "Dr. Michael M. Kamrava, the innovator of SEED and HEED, is the administrative director of West Coast Infertility Clinic, Inc., certified by the national board of medical examiners and a certified reproductive endocrinologist and infertility specialist (REI). He is also an internationally recognized leader in in vitro fertilization (IVF)."
Horrifying
Hell no
Wtf?! HOW?!
The website was last updated last year, but I was looking for reviews and didn’t find any. I found other things instead. According to a couple sources, they haven’t updated anything in years (2007, 2009, or 2018). One site also lists completely different specialties being in the building, like optometrists. It’s unclear what’s going on.
“She insisted”
SIR.
*YOU*
ARE
THE
DOCTOR.
Please please PLEASE do a video about hyperemesis gravidarum. I had it all 3 pregnancies. And with my last had multiple hospitalizations and a feeding tube and home health with home IVs. I hate it when people say it’s all in your head and minimize this! It was a REAL thing for me and without modern medicine I would have literally died, along with my babies.
Thank you for continuing to provide education, not only about our health, but also flaws in the health system.
Is it possible that they were selling the frozen embryos to pay for the treatment or the doctor was selling them without Nadia's permission just to get more money? I have no idea if this is even feasible and I know it sounds wild, but that's the only thing I could think of to explain what happened to the very large number of embryos that weren't implanted. This story is heartbreaking and I can only hope they are all doing ok.
Great point because I’m still trying to figure that out. All the frozen embryos, they had to do some thing with them .
Yup, thought the same. Why would you go through the hassel AND the financial expenses of keeping that many embryos? When the doctor is a money leech, it seems possible.
She couldn't have been, since it's illegal to "sell" embryos as the embryo's owner. You can certainly ask that you be compensated in all or part for the storage fees or necessary travel expenses you've paid in relation to the transfer of ownership, but not for the embryo itself. You can legally only "donate" the embryos. But clinics that offer embryo adoption are allowed to charge fees to people wanting to adopt in order to cover their legal fees, workers' time, storage costs, etc. They can even require that you have a home evaluation if they choose, to make sure the adopting family is fit, but that's usually a third party expense.
This is based on my extensive research as both someone who once wanted to do embryo adoption and now as someone who has several embryos and has considered donating the extras (if any are left after I complete my family).
@@mlaidukaitisTheoretically if he was selling the frozen embryos it wouldn’t have been a legal sale, it would have been under the table and the successful pregnancies she had would be excellent marketing. The buyers would not know that there were multiple implantations, they would only be presented with evidence of successful pregnancies.
i was in college when this story came out but shortly after had nursing school so didn't know much about it but this is one of the craziest things i have ever seen i had to pause three times to walk around with my hands on my head because i cant even conceptualize how he was rationalizing any of this to himself...crazy
Great video as always!! Sorry is the first time I comment, but I wanted to ask you if you've seen Hannah Alonzo's video about her birth story. Both your channels are amazing, a collaboration would be great! Or a reaction, or something... you're both great, so informative 😍
"I really hate sleeping!" caught me way too off guard while listening to this
Oh wow! As an IVF patient myself (one retrieval, three transfers, two pregnancies, zero births), I can't imagine a clinic being like this. My doctor sometimes transfers up to 5 embryos, but only day 3 embryos in 40+ patients with a history of not being able to make blast in the lab. If any embryos are blastocysts or if you're under 40, he wouldn't even transfer two. Also, as far as I know, nowadays multiple pregnancies are counted as complications and doesn't help their reputation in the least bit.
Good luck on your pregnancy journey. You should be able to put in how many you want…. Not 12‼️ 12 is too many 😂
Since he lost his license shouldn't we refrain from calling him Doctor and instead call him Mr. Kamrava?
Or "Former Doctor"?
This is so sad this poor mum got so much criticism for this! When all she wanted was a family and she trusted her doctor. I remember this. She got so much hate very quick after the fame 😢 I hope they’re well and happy 😊 I have had medical negligence regarding my reproductive system and it’s not okay. Thanks doc for setting the record straight. ❤ I’d love to reach to this and add my story to this. Hmm 🤔 I don’t think I can. But I have a lot to say regarding this amazing video. ❤ Glad I found you today, happy mother’s days! Love a new fan in Australia
People keep asking where she came up with the money for this... I wonder if he turned around and gave her some big discounts in exchange for using her like a guinea pig. Like, he'll agree to doing the cycle for her at $1,000 instead of $10,000 if she does it at 3 months post partum. That way he could find out how successful a stim cycle that close to a birth can be. He gained a lot of knowledge doing her stim cycles and transfers so close postpartum.
Edit for spelling.
Sounds like something people do in that context, I don't know who's sperm was used because it looks like she has been raising these children on her own from the start