Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Review
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2022
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The last truly great Star Trek movie, and it was made more than 30 years ago. That's pretty depressing.
It was the first Star Trek I got to see in theaters as a boy.
Arguably the most important to the lore of Trek as well. They stopped taking chances with the movies being something that would resonate with the Trek universe since they wanted to make them popcorn flicks and not cinematic Sci-Fi movies like this and Khan.
Well, if the Drinker approves of the video, it must be good!
*Love your work, Drinker, love your work*
The Next Gen movies are trash, including 8.
I dunno about last truly great ST movie. First Contact and Insurrection are pretty good movies.
When one does a deep dive into the older Star Trek films, it really hammers home how far the series has fallen with Kurtzmen, Picard, and Discovery.
I don't see those... things you mentioned as any part of the series. They are simply not... Trek.
Yep! Kurtzman trek isn't even watchable!
Star Trek as a franchise can only recover once Kurtzman and his ilk are driven out in shame and their work forever forgotten from canon.
And now Stacy Abrams as President of Earth...
The movie was good in that it showed that yes, Vulcans can be bastards too. And "logical" is simply another name for "I feel I'm right".
Valeris felt her actions were logical, for example.
@@gotdangedcommiesitellyahwa6298 Don't forget how blue collar workers protesting for basic election integrity started ww3.
I love this movie so much.
Shatner's delivery of "fire" with that single homing torpedo at the end will never cease to be satisfying.
I got to see this back in 91 when i was living in Washington state. Saw it at a Drive in Theater.
"Then let them die!"
And Spock's subtly, disapointed look in his old Shipmate.
There was supposed to be a scene where Kirk waves his hand, to signify that was his anger talking.
But it was cut
The special effects with the Klingon Blood might look really dated but man those Practical Effects... I almost forgot how awesome it is to see to see real rooms being blown to bits. :D
@@molasorrosalom4846 In the Blu Ray, I think it was released that part. I mean, it looks like Kirk is looking down, after the dissapointed look of Spock, and like he waved the hand .
It was short, but Shatner even sold, in a fraction of second, the look of regret.
“Let them die”. The perfect line and the perfect delivery
Kirk was never going to be able to accept where the future was headed. This was the end of his story, not the Kirk who died in Generations.
@@augustlion5105 Yes. Lets pretend Generations was TNG only, and it all finished after First Contact. 👍👍
@@FatNorthernBigot Heh, or you can count The Ashes of Eden (post VI), The Return (post Genrations), and Avenger (post First Contact) as a part of your headcanon like I do!!!
Star Trek VI is my second all-time favorite “Trek” movie after “Wrath of Khan.”
I will gladly rewatch this every time!
Due to Meyer, well said mate.
Ehh. I like IV over II. Wrath is only 1/3 of a story and IV is complete.
@@treborkroy5280 no way! 2 is still the best Trek film by far.
WoK is basically just "TMP" retold, again. Minus the 70sRetroFuturism and with a snappier pacing.
"Kirk old sad and not happy, has to take command....only because it's his shipmate, Spock. He's all "Nah bro it's cool, you take command" instead of "Dammit you stole the Enterprise from me you sonoffabitch"
But Kirk being rusty, "Lol nah, lets not raise the shields" neverminding it's a sensible order. And what's Terrel gonna do if it was just a mistunderstanding? Bawl-out a dude several Pay-grades above him for taking a necessary precaution?
I think not.
Same here
I remember seeing this movie in the theater back in 1991. At end when the main cast members' signatures went up on the screen at the end, I actually shed tears because I had come to love those characters so much.
Best ending EVER. Thanks for the memory.
Me too and every time I watch this I get a lump in my throat
@@maryrowe8356 "Signing off for the final time" - Epic feels
This movie is just so...cinematic. Best I can describe. My dad took me when I was young and it was so large and epic on the theater screen it has stuck with me for years and years. I love this movie
Epic is indeed the word.
"Star Trek VI" was the perfect goodbye to the original series crew.
There is a sadness to this movie. When she came out, we had no idea this would be the last. Yes we all knew the original cast were getting longer in the tooth everyday. In the movie, they talk about this being the last time. Still how many times had we heard this is the last only for a beloved cast to get back together, "one more time." This movie did end up being the last dance. The last time we see the crew of the Enterprise together on the Enterprise saving the galaxy. We didn't realize it at the time, but this was to be their last dance.
I summarize the atmosphere of this film as a “wistful melancholy.”
Was this their last dance?
Especially with the last scene, the last Captain’s Log - and the end credits starting off with the hand written signatures of the cast, not even necessary to add the character names anyway, this really marks the end of an era.
It’s a wonderful, magic, heart touching moment ... and in retrospect, they should have left it that way.
No cross-over with ‘Generations’. That movie really ruined it all again.
Just letting the crew sail off to Neverland and leaving everything else to history would have been perfect.
@@Blechfuchs Generations doesn’t ruin this movie one iota. Generations falls squarely in the TNG camp.
This was and still is my all time favourite Star Trek instalment
I'm going to say that this is probably the best conclusion to something so long running ever. I could never overstate the warm spot in my heart this movie holds being it perfectly put a cap on it.
I remember watching this in the theater when it first came out. FIrst Trek movie i saw in theater. Really liked it. Still one of my favorites.
Same here! First Star Trek film I saw in the theater, and one of my favorites (second only to Star Trek II).
2 and 6 were excellent
@@senorpepper3405 to me the undiscovered country was the best. I was like 8 when I saw it in theater. Then maybe the voyage home. I didn't see wrath of khan till some time later. Good movie but the other 2 stuck with me more as a kid. Just like superman 2 & 4. I always watched those as a kid so really loved them. I didn't watch superman 1 till some time later and I had more fun with 2 and 4 (even though 4 went down big time in quality....as a kid I really liked the movie)
If you ever get the chance to watch Wrath of Khan in the theater, take it.
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered County is, in my opinion, the best Star Trek movie to date...and at the rate of things, probably for all time. It got me into Star Trek as a kid.
I respect your opinion but disagree. For me it's the first movie.
@@jaysonraphaelmurdock8812 The Motion Picture. You are definitely unique. But are entitled to your opinion. A lot if fast-forwarding in that one to speed up watching everybody...watch...think...play background music and show special effects. The Klingon battle, the Spock/McCoy exhanges, the mind meld and the surprise reveal were the only worthwhile parts. Could have been done in an hour
This was a sci fi movie which proved that you dont need giant oversized cgi spaceship battles with huge explosions to tell a great story!
Man I loved this movie. I've watched it a good dozen times and adore it each time. David Warner and Christopher Plummer are so excellent.
i got to watch it at a Drive In back in 91. It was one of the last Drive In theaters left in my state where i used to live.
Only a dozen? Hell, I managed that the first year of its VHS release. You need to obsess better.
Oh gosh, I love this one about as much, maybe every bit as much as Wrath of Kahn. Not "just" a great Star Trek film, but a great film in general. And after Star Trek V, I remember hoping for something good when I saw this in the theaters when I was younger. I think both my dad and I saw it at the theaters together, too. I so relieved when it was fantastic. Been a classic for me ever since, very rewatchable, too.
Agreed. I know it's blasphemy, but this is actually tied for my favorite ST movie, with WoK. WoK was great because it developed Kirk in meaningful ways (finding family, coming to terms with death) and had a great starship battle at the end. TUC did the same, excellent Kirk development, wrapping up his last character flaw (racism) before his retirement, and yet another awesome battle. Khan was the stronger antagonist, but Chang is still great, and I'm a sucker for political intrigue.
This was the first Star Trek movie I saw in theaters as a young lad, and it was my father who took me one afternoon.
Good memories of a time of better Trek.
Same here, the end battle was amazing in cinema
I’ll never understand how the Veridian patch on Kirk’s back went completely unnoticed by the crew of Kronos One, an entire courtroom full of Klingons and even McCoy through most of the film.
It’s funny that the conspirators from both the Federation and Klingon empire chose to work together in a plot to disrupt the peace talks so they didn’t have to work together…
It's not just that. Why would the Klingons allow Kirk & McCoy to keep their Starfleet uniforms when being transported to the prison colony and not issue them standard overalls? I can kinda/sorta see why they allowed it during the trial, but certainly not afterwards.
The patch is really dumb. An effectively hidden tracker should've been swallowed or implanted in some way.
I like TUC up to a point, but something just feels off, sterile, and thoughtless about it. The entire premise of Praxis exploding with a force that enveloped the Excelsior, a ship that was undoubtedly many, MANY light years away, is just as idiotic. Indeed, the premise that the ENTIRE Klingon empire mortally depends on this one, tiny moon is also ridiculous.
I get what Nimoy and Meyer were going for, but it just doesn't work, at least not in the way TUC presents it. TWoK's setup doesn't really work, either, but the narrative is delivered so expertly by everyone involved that it can be discounted.
On another note, I don't buy for a second that there wasn't at least one more movie for TOS characters. Brandon Tartikoff himself wanted another TOS-centric movie, but was unable to make it happen for various reasons.
The trajectory of Star Trek wrt TOS characters was kinda tragic after TUC, especially since Shatner agreed to participate in the unmitigated travesty that was Generations. Takei has become a bit of an ass in his twilight years, but he should've gotten the Sulu series he wanted, which would've continued TOS legacy.
@@fredleggett923 I can’t disagree with you.
On the patch though, if Starfleet has access to something that can track its wearer over seemingly light years, why hasn’t this been built into the commbadges by the 24th century!?
And why do we not see any consequences of Praxis after this film? By TNG the entire Klingon empire should have either demilitarised to be able to afford to combat the climate change, or have evacuated to another planet. So which was it? They obviously didn’t demilitarise, and didn’t seem to have moved as they still have all their ancient stuff around. I assume they don’t discuss it with outsiders, but what happened?
@@mb2000 Although it isnt precisely shown I believe we learn throuhh TNG and later DS9 that Q'onos underwent a massive terraforming-like project with the help of the Federation in the 70 years betweem TUC and the first season of TNG.
@mb2000 Could be war profiteers and Romulans pulling the strings with most of the grunts acting on hate and not knowing who they're really working for.
@@fredleggett923 . . . The Praxis explosion makes perfect sense when you remember what the core thing the Klingons would have been mining there was: Dilithium. That's the core component of "energy production" in Trek, and due to the stated nature of dilithium a massive explosion like was seen would have sent its shockwaves perpetuating out via Subspace at FTL speed, thus easily reaching Excelsior.
And see my note above. Empires tend to be much more centralized than other governments. The Klingons shipbuilding, government, and bureaucracy all likely were focused on Quo'nos and as such the damage caused by Praxis exploding would be similar to if you set off major nuclear devices near Paris or London. The damage done would effectively gut France or Great Britain, not only crippling their governments but also their economy and population, as those are the largest and most economically important cities in those countries.
Always felt like this was a really underrated Trek movie. How you do current politics and make it timeless. Really good story and probably the most satisfying ending to a story since Indiana Jones. There is something really great about having your heroes riding off into the sunset. Why I never liked generations because you’re not supposed to see him die.
I really is side by side with Trek II in my view.
Still the BEST "send off" to a SciFi Generation/Crew EVER... only rivaled by the last Episode of Babylon 5!
Ps. The Enterprise suffered only 1! Hull breach afair
Something to note... the send off credits, the for Star Trek VI were so iconic as a salute to a long running cast that I only know of one other franchise that has ever repeated it and actually arguably earned it: Avengers in the credits to Endgame.
While not the best Trek movie (I'll give that nod to II), this is probably my favorite one. This is the first movie since TMP that you have a fully crewed and mostly functional Enterprise (though you could easily argue it's the only one, as TMP Enterprise has it's issues early in that film). I love that McCoy and Kirk get some screen time together. The rest of the crew get to contribute to varying degrees. Having lived through the tail end of the Cold War and watching the Wall fall, this movie resonated so strongly at the time. Plus, a more fitting send off could not have been written. This was how you wrapped a franchise.
No matter what, a Star Trek theatrical conversation will always loop back to "The Wrath of Khan". By far TWoK is the best of the original cast releases. "The Undiscovered Country" is the second best.
I started my military career during the last quarter of the Cold War. There was the very real threat the USSR and USA would annihilate each other. It may seem quaint or even unreal to those who did not live through those times. TUC was a timely film in that we truly wanted peace and knew there were massive forces aligned against those desires. TUC was an analogue--a snapshot--capturing the real desire for peace.
The who done it aspect of TUC's third act is what is most memorable for me. Many times I've watched the film over the years and my heart swells with emotion at Spock's emotional outburst to the betrayal by his protégé. This culminates in both Spock's and Kurk's realization they've both allowed their prejudices to blind them. They are both very observant and analytical men and yet were so easily mislead by their emotions (Pride and Vanity in Spock's case; Wrath and Anger in Kurk's).
I miss this style and level of storytelling.
Have to correct you Dave about the battle - Enterprise sustains several torpedo blasts before the hull was compromised. The shields around the blast zone show signs of distress, and this was stated in the dialog.
Just keep in mind, Nicholas Meyer had *2* *weeks*, just 2, to write the story outline for this movie. I think the fact that the flaws were so minor is amazing given this fact.
Nice one!
I remember back in 1994 the Star Trek exhibition came to Edenborough, i went along to take a look. there were assorts of Trek props and uniforms on display from the TV and Movies. One in particular took my attention and that was General Changs uniform , beautifully made until i noticed a piece of it was made of hydraulic pipe it even had it written on it the type and part number.
The Klingons really must have been struggling after the explosion of Praxsis!
A Star trek movie with plot, character arcs?
Were we ever so young?
Yes, but the "makers" of the new movies are definitely made by children/child-like adults.:(
@Newsbender II Don't call me Shirley!
It was the perfect send off for the original crew as well as bridging the gap with the story of how the Klingons were villains in TOS, but Federation allies in the next gen era. A political story of how two completely different cultures try to come together for mutual benefit, one out of necessity and one out of opportunity, and the hard feelings that still linger from the past. The Undiscovered Country is not just one of my favorite Star Trek movies, it is one of my favorite movies of all time.
They did a great job with the Klingons in it. They are lame in the Next Gen era.
I think there are themes in this film that still resonate today. Lots of “leaders” in Washington think we’re still in the early 1980’s and can’t seem to let go of the past.
Christopher Plummer is a wonderful villain in this. A great Canadian actor he was. I was honoured to see him perform on stage at the Stratford Shakespeare festival 14 years ago. Such a commanding presence he had.
His great performances will live on. RIP sir🙏🏻
Just want to point out that you actually do see the shields working. Remember the bubble shield of the TNG era was first introduced because it was a cheaper effect. The shield exist as a layering around the ship. Also you only see one torpedo go through the ship. Literally when the shields finally fail.... Keep up the great content.
The one thing that bugs me with the torpedo that breeches the hull of the saucer is that it enters from underneath and exits out the top of the hull but inbetween they quick cut to inside a compartment (looks like the dinner scene room) and show the torpedo traveling horizontally through (one side of the room to the other) instead of how it should have been going floor to ceiling.
But otherwise a solid Star Trek space battle.
@@brentbartley6838 The special effects with the Klingon Blood might look really dated but man those Practical Effects... I almost forgot how awesome it is to see to see real rooms being blown to bits. :D
@@EbonyPope How many times you going to post the same comment? I’ve counted three so far, and what you’re saying is wrong.
@@SumDumGy As many times as I want. Wrong in how far?
@@EbonyPope You look like a child copying and pasting the same comment, especially when insignificant and factually incorrect.
The Klingon blood effect isn’t outdated. It was a conscious choice to avoid being dinged by the MPAA with a harsher rating. This is common knowledge.
This is a great movie. The dialogue never seems to get tired or old. Delivery is great 99% of the time.
I like ST VI for the many reasons others have given here, but something rarely mentioned is the way the director does give the viewer glues as to what is going on without hitting one over the head (as modern movies tend to). For example, during the argument scene at the start between Kirk and Spock, for a short time one can see Valeris lurking at the back in the darkness, but she's easy to mess, especially as one is focusing on the arguing pair of men. Later she even refers to hearing what Kirk says, implying that she was there. Also, when Kirk is musing to himself in his quarters (with the door open), a panning shot following Kirk moving past the door also has Valeris walking past in the corridor, again that's how she overhears him.
Spock placing the patch on Kirk's shoulder is one of the more obvious 'hidden' plot elements, but I like the fact that others are left up to the viewer to see, if they're truly watching. Modern movies, with their blipvert style endless action sequences, have no space for this sort of nuanced direction.
Sure it has plot holes (what movie doesn't), but ST VI has one unique distinction above all ST movies: people who know little or nothing about ST can watch it just fine, enough is conveyed during the film for any viewer to understand what is going on and why, ie. it's a lot more accessible than most ST films. I remember my Mum enjoyed watching it long ago.
FINALLY, I find someone else who noticed Valeris in the background darkness. I could have kittens! 🙂
My favorite line of any Trek film lies inside 6: "I'd pay real money if he'd shut up.." Love you, Bones.
While not nearly as flashy or actiony as the newer Trek stuff, I will always pick 1-6 without hesitation (yes, I'd even watch 1 and 5 over the new stuff). Amazing actors, great stories, practical effects. Political yes, but in good ways.
Will we ever get Trek back?
Every time something goes sideways at work, I use the quote, "Well, this is fun."
That's my favorite line, too! Though I think it's "I'd give real money if he'd shut up." Love Bones!
I really loved this film. The murder mystery had me clueless when I first saw it. The USS Excelsior really had time to shine. About the Enterprise shields, I figured since the ship was close to being decommissioned it was past it prime and no match for a newly developed Bird of Pray with experimental next gen tech.
You forgot one of the best lines in the film and scenes in all Star Trek movies - when the Excelsior is trying to reach the Enterprise and Sulu telling them to go faster -
Sulu: "Come on! Come on!"
Conn: "She'll fly apart Sir"
Sulu: "THEN FLY HER APART!"
I can't believe you forgot the moment that got the most cheers in the theater when I originally saw it. When Kirk makes his initial moves with the shapeshifting alien (played by supermodel Iman) McCoy rolls over and says, "What is it with you?"
The entire theater laughed, clapped, and cheered.
That was a true "leaning on the fourth wall" moment.
There is a shield effect shown on the ships during the end battle. It's a brief shimmering white energy effect.
It's easier to notice when Excelsior first gets attacked and you see it through the Enterprise viewscreen, right before Chang recites the line "Our revels now are ended."
This is the first time, I believe, that “liquid” is shown in a zero gravity situation. It’s done cgi ofc, and doesn’t hold up too well today, maybe, but it was a bit of an achievement in those days. This is pre Jurassic park, CGI at this level was still very much in its infancy.
Watched this again the other night, the last decent Star Trek movie in my humble opinion.
I decided to watch it again after seeing how the franchise has fallen so far from grace, it's depressing.
Christopher Plummer played an absolute blinder as General Chang.
"taH pagh taHbe'!" ("To be or not to be!").
The Next Gen movies are trash. Into Darkness is underrated though.
Interestingly, Plummer had always wanted to make a movie with Shatner. (People forget that Shatner started as a Shakespearian actor and that he and Plummer were friends that had worked together on stage)
@@_XR40_ That explains why the two of them are so clearly having fun playing off each other.
Rest his soul.
Some brilliant moments in this film. After the first torpedo is launched at the Klingon ship and everyone is scrambling around trying to figure out what happened, the moment the second one fires it is somehow more unbelievable and shocking. Hope this doesn't offend anyone but it's similar to when that plane hit the trade tower on 9/11 and then the sheer absolute shock when it happens AGAIN. I also adore the scene with Kirk and Spock chatting in his cabin. Every time I watch it it brings a tear to my eyes when he says ""Is it possible that we two, you and I, have grown so old and inflexible that we have outlived our usefulness? Would that be considered a joke?" Absolutely heartbreaking to hear them address that after TNG had started on TV, this was well known to be the final film, and the amount of ridicule the cast kept getting in magazines and newspapers for their ages.
Great story with actual tension. Great Characters with real depth and substance. Everything the current Trek is not.
Remember when star trek had a coherent plot and made sense? God I miss those days. The utter tripe that is Nutrek makes me appreciate the classic stuff even more.
The children are loose in the movie studio, and make "video mud pies."
Christopher Plumber really brought this movie to life. He reprised his role as General Chang in a beta canon video game, Star Trek: Klingon Academy. Here is a two hour video of that superb acting.
ua-cam.com/video/XqVlSNP1jEI/v-deo.html
Honor is about sticking to your orders, and not haring off seeking to self-fellate.
I'm severely paraphrasing of course, but Chang had a point there.
Granted, there's a time and place for using your initiative. But you better be good and goddamned sure about it, and not doing this course of action to stroke your own ego.
Just watched a few clips. Boy he's good. He talks so natural you wouldn't really think he's acting if it wasn't for the makeup. His demeanor and and style of speech really makes me miss this kind of acting.
I still have my copy of that game, although I doubt the latest version of Windows can run it.
I thought it did a wonderful job of expanding on Chang's character. In the movie, he lacked background. The game, on the other hand, showed how much he believed that "The Klingon way" and "The Federation way" were incompatible, and that war was not only inevitable, but necessary to determine which would prevail. He believed in this so strongly, that he devoted himself to that inevitability. To see all that slip away, after the explosion of Praxis, one can then say that his subsequent actions were all part of the tragic fall of his character.
So, just as the game quoted: "Let us sit upon the ground, and tell sad stories about the death of Kings..."
You should follow this up with the Voyager episode "Flashback" (S3 E1). Tuvok has to recall his memories to figure out what's wrong with him and remembers being on the USS Excelsior under Captain Sulu during the events of this movie. It's extremely amusing, especially because it is one of the best looks into the lost era of Trek, between Undiscovered Country and Encounter At Farpoint. It also featured Grace Lee Whitney returning as Janice Rand. Great episode, and this is the perfect time to discuss it.
Great video! I remember seeing this one in the theatre. Keep up the good work!!!
That episode of Voyager was brilliant, an example of how to pay homage to the lore without trying to placate a numb audience with memberberries like new Trek is constantly guilty of doing.
@@augustlion5105 To quote Kirk at the end of Wrath of Khan, "Of all the comments I have ever read, yours was the most..... accurate."
@@100Servings lol
This is my third favourite Trek movie, with Wrath of Khan at number one and First Contact at number two. The only thing I didn't like about it was how it shrunk the universe so much, a mistake 'Picard' made as well. Both the Klingons and Romulans have huge star empires, and yet in this movie and the tv show 'Picard' both are brought down by the loss of their home worlds. This simply makes no sense when they have hundreds of other planets under their control. But for the story to work they have to say that if the Klingon's lose Kronos then they die
No that actually is something that makes sense.
What would happen to France is Paris just... suddenly ceased to exist? Or to Great Britain if London was cut out and rendered uninhabitable? For highly centralized Empires, which both the Romulans and Klingons were portrayed as, with highly centralized governments and bureaucracies, the suddenly loss of the homeworld, where the entire government and bureaucracy as well as the economic core of their Empires as well as likely the single most populated planets in those empires, would likely cause a massive collapse.
The Federation is the odd man out, just like the US is kinda the odd duck when it comes to this. Washington DC while the seat of the Federal government, isn't the US' most economically important city. Nor is the US highly centralized, with the vast majority of day to day affairs (like police, maintaining roads, courts, etc.) being managed by the State governments. Thus the sudden loss of DC for the US would have less of a massive impact. The Federation echoes this in that it has multiple core worlds (Earth, Vulcan, Tellar, and Andor being the Founding Four) and thus is more decentralized.
@@peregry Your point on the Federation is absolutely right, but I would argue that your points about the Klingons and Romulans are based on assumptions. Never have we seen or been told that both empires are so homeworld centric that if that homeworld fell they would fall apart and considering the futuristic time they exist in its even less likely that losing one would hurt so much. Add that to the fact that when the Romulan homeworld fell they had years, decades of warning (as suns do not just go nova at the flip of a coin) and the Klingon's, although not knowing Praxis was going to blow up still had years to move their bureaucracy and governments off world to one of their other planets after it did.
@@ukmediawarrior actually, we are explicitly told in the case of the Romulans, both in Picard (as much as I hate that series) and by Star Trek Online (which is a much, MUCH more faithful continuation of the TNG-era... yes, the theme park MMO has a better understanding of Trek than the modern show producers, go figure), and its suggested at in Star Trek 2009 (and explicitly stated in secondary material) that something was OFF with the Hobbus Supernova, it has somehow managed to enter subspace and was thus again propagating at FTL speeds over a larger area. This meant that the Romulans did not have sufficient warning to evacuate the planet and what should have literally been years to decades was instead days.
Then you also have to remember that at the time of Hobbus the Romulans were still recovering from one decapitating blow to their government via Shinzon as showing in Nemesis. A second utter loss of its government, combined with the loss of the beaucracy would likely shatter anything that remained of Romulan unity. Further the loss of Romulus was also a major symbolic loss for the Romulans. Remeber, Romulus wasn't their native homeworld, it was their adopted homeworld. It, in many ways, symbolized what it meant to even BE Romulan. Romulan- unlike Klingon, Human, or Bajorian- in Trek is actually NOT a Species identifier, but a Racial/Ethnic Identity. Racially Romulans are Vulcans who rejected the Surakian religion and left Vulcan to found their own civilization.
Then you have to remember that the Romulans in the 24th century were a highly centralized totalitarian state as show throughout TNG. We know from history that that type of government tends to be highly centralized rather than decentralized (as decentralized power threatens core state power). Two decapitating blows each within 10 years of each other the second also destroying the economic core along with the government? No nation really CAN survive that. If you removed both DC and New York from the US, decapitating the entire Federal government while also gutting the most important city economically to the country, the US would likely shatter too. It just would be a more orderly shattering than most due to our already exsisting States that could step up.
As to the Klingons, we're told their economy and government was centered around Qo'nos, which makes sense as the bulk of a spacefairing species population and industry will be in their home system. Praxis gutted all that and poisoned the enviroment of their homeworld, threatening to render it uninhabitable. The issue for the Klingons wasn't sudden loss of everything, but that they did not have the economic capacity to both handle the enviromental issues AND maintain a war footing against the Federation. Bear in mind, Praxis was a moon of Qo'nos. So the damage was immediate and closeby. It is quite believable that a polity could only have enough resources to focus on disaster recovery OR maintaining their military.
@@peregryOk, lol, thats a lot to take in, but reading it through twice, again you seem to be leaning on assumption. I admit that I suppose I am too, so neither of us could be right and I don't count anything in the Kelvin timeline be it the movies or Picard as canon as I hate them all they ignore, trample on or twist everything that has gone before. Also they depend on 'secondary' material to fill in the plot holes of their movies and tv shows, something none of the other Trek shows and movies every needed to do, that in itself tells you quality of writers involved in the Kelvin universe.
However that all said, there is around 6-10 years between Nemesis when Shinzon destroyed the Romulan senate and when the Utopia shipyard are destroyed (so before the Romulan sun goes nova), more than enough time to put a new senate in place. If, say, the US government was destroyed in a single attack, say at the State of the Union speech, that wouldn't bring down America, there are deputies, assistants and new people would move up to take the place of those gone. Also, whatever may or may not have happened to the sun it didn't go from ok to BANG in a couple of hours. If it had then Spock would not have been trying to fix it. So there was more than enough time to evac the planet and keep the existing senate and ruling body in place. It was seven years between when they realised the sun would go nova and when it actually did memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Romulan_sun .
Yes, the Klingons have a huge military, yes they put a lot of their economy into it, so yes they couldn't deal with an ecological threat by themselves. Ok, I can get on board with that, however that doesn't take into account their empire was as big as the Romulan one, if not bigger. Again, economy or not, they had time to move their governing body off-world and the empire would have continued. They had time, more than enough time. I believe in the movie they say years, so yes the planet is dying, but not the whole Klingon race as they make out here. They make it seem there is only one world and if it goes then that's it, goodbye Klingon's.
Personally, I'll never forget McCoys response to Chang's Shakespear quotes - "I'd give real money if he'd shut up". Great review sir - thank you!
@The Dave Cullen Show - The movie era Enterprise and Excelsior have shields of a different type. They are not a bubble, but instead a skin-tight field that reinforces the hull plating. If you watch, the shields spark in compensation of the stress on a torpedo impact - it lightly scorched the plating, but that was all. Likewise, when the Excelsior was hit, there was no visible bubble, it hit the hull - and we know their shields were up, too. This is consistent with V'Ger's weapon in The Motion Picture as well. I know this from a technical manual that came out before Star Trek 5, and was pleased to see the continuity of it confirmed on screen in Star Trek 6. The fleet was later able to improve bubble field type shields, and this variety generally fell out of favor. Elements of it went into improving the Structural Integrity Fields that became available on later ships. Sorry - I had to grab the chance to nerd out a little bit there.
When this film came out some people got together rented out a cinema screen for the day and played ST4,5 and then 6. What a great day that was, we took in whole cooked chicken to eat as well. Yum
I had the original series movies on VHS and the deleted scene of the federation officer disguised as a Klingon was on it. I agree it fits better to show both sides being afraid of the undiscovered country without that scene in it.
Not to mention the unmasking of the Klingon to reveal Colonel West was a bit of a Scooby Doo reveal.
Star Trek 6 was always my favourite Movie. Still above Star Trek 2 and 8. I wished the would have continued this hard naval style. The story is superb and it is a fantastic Sendoff for the Original Crew.
This was the only time in Star Trek they went with the creative idea to show damage marks on the OUTER hull even in places the shields stopped the shot. If you pay close attention, only one of the shots are shown to go all the way into the inner hull. Shortly after, Spock says, "I believe the hull has been compromised."
Shields are present in the Khitomer battle, if you look closely it's like some kind of white ripple effect when torpedoes hit, but since the ship's hull is kinda white too it's easy to miss.
"I am not interested in the names of your fathers, nor of your family's lineage. What I am interested in, is your breaking point." - Christopher Plummer in Klingon Academy. Most badass line ever!
One other quibble. at the beginning it's Sulu's ship, the Excelsior, that's "cataloguing gaseous anomalies", but in the final fight at the end, the Enterprise has that equipment aboard.
Let’s see a breakdown of Generations!
It has it’s flaws sure, but I believe it aged the best of ALL the TNG films.
Especially if you look at it from the perspective of the “Hero’s Journey” between generations.
ua-cam.com/video/3xhslseNBOU/v-deo.html
Watch this and come back. Lol
What I found jarring was the hammy way Shatner delivered his lines....it didn't seem like I was watching James Kirk.
@@jkdbuck7670 in Generations?
@@jkdbuck7670 Nonsense, Kirk died exactly as was foreshadowed in the Final Frontier.
It just wasn’t guns blazing as many assumed it would be.
First Contact gelled much better as a complete film. Generations has too many issues and plot holes, but it’s still a good movie.
prick us, do we not bleed? tickle us, do we not laugh? Wrong us, shall we not revenge? i love this film, its probably my favourite tbh. khan arguably has a tighter story but what i really like about this film is that the khitomer accords play a pretty large part in TNG and especially DS9 and i really enjoy that kind of continuity
Our revels now are ended.
A well written Star Trek series with the CGI graphics of today would blow my mind but unfortunately pretty pictures isn't enough to make a good Star Trek series
This was one of the first films my parents let me go see by myself and I love it. I especially liked the Worf cameo as his advocate.
"When one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable, like… like old leather. And finally it becomes so familiar that one can't ever remember feeling any other way.” - Jean-Luc Picard
a subliminal detail is in the courtroom scene where the lighting makes McCoy"s and Kirk"s uniforms the same color as Klingon blood
I was 14 when ST VI came out and remember how mesmerized I was with the movie poster.
The extended cut DVDs and blu-rays have the scene with Colonel West.
As far as the shields are concerned, the older ships had a different shield setup that was closer to the hull. That's why the first few torpedoes look like they kind of bounce off the ship. This is still damage to the ship because of kinetic energy. Those shields did not form a wide bubble around the ship like they did by the TNG era. That last shot of the torpedo piercing the hall and blowing 10 forward apart was after the shields collapsed.
If you pay attention, the scene where the bird of prey explodes gets recycled in Generations (Duras sister's BOP), and I believe one episode each of DS9 and TNG (without looking it up).
Notice that one of the torpedos goes through the dining room from earlier in the movie.
the effects of the torpedoes here were beautiful.
I saw this in the theatre when it came out. It still holds up. I had no idea Valeris was the traitor before it was revealed. YMMV
Well, Gorkon's line: "Find Chang" is a clue there. (Yes, not so obscure, the intrigue, that is).
Colonel West's identity as the assassin isn't the deleted scene, that scene has been in every version of the movie I've ever seen, and it's on my VHS copy of Star Trek VI.
That scene, along with a few others, were included for the home video release, not for the theatrical runs.
11:48 I love what the novelization of this movie did with the mind meld scene. It made it far less mind assaulty. I unfortunately I have to be vague as I lost my copy of the novel and am recalling what I read 15 -20 years ago.
One thing of note are the incredible speeds Enterprise and Excelsior reach in this movie, and for the Enterprise, Star Trek V as well. Enterprise reaches the edge of federation space before Kirk has a chance to unpack, and properly brief his mission
Proof that Enterprise and Excelsior had “Transwarp” = TNG New Warp Scale
"Don't forget the Romulans."
It probably deserves a rewatch, I usually ignore this one when it's on t'telly. I watched it at the pics, I did love Plummer smashing out ole Shakey; the Northern star bit is ace, with Bones wondering if he'll shut up.
A perfect Star Trek Original Series movie. Right up there with Wrath of Khan. Great stuff. That attack on the chancellor at the beginning spooked me good as a little kid!
Also, bringing Saavik back would have raised intimacy issues with Spock and perhaps given the game away about the child she had following Star Trek III.
This was the first Star Trek movie that I saw, and what a way to kick off my love for the franchise.
I really enjoy these retro reviews of Trek you do, thanks for your insights Dave :)
I didn’t like this film the first time I saw it. As I’ve aged, I’ve come to appreciate the performances and the plot quite a bit - especially given its ties to (then) contemporary events.
Same. The elements present in this movie are really interesting and satisfying for adults, but kids and teens will be bored with all of the talking.
This is by far my favorite Trek movie with The Wrath of Kahn right behind it. Christopher Plummer's performance steals the movie and has some of the best lines which are of Shakespeare. The court room scene as well as him toying with Kirk during the battle at the end are my two favorite moments in the movie. Current, "Trek" doesn't even compare to this.
A pity this was the end for the original crew, more adventures could have happened. I hated to see them go... For me, this was the end of "Star Trek".
To clarify….the shields are working the entire time. Chang is showcasing the advantages of his new ship by getting in close and firing at point blank range. The energy can clearly be seen dissipating on the shields, but enough force exists to still rock the ship and leave scorching. Think of it this way; even Kevlar is useless if someone fires point blank.
Wonderful Star Trek film. Great story and a wonderful villain. Christopher Plummer is brilliant
I just love how the actors sign off at the end of the film.
Nice touch that Chang's eyepatch is bolted to his skull, and each bolt has the Klingon emblem on it. Hard core!
I love how you paraphrased the story. Sounds like a audiobook.
If you're a film buff, this movie has much to offer that you didn't mention. Meyer, being a film historian himself, dropped references like "Rura Pente" (or however they spell it), which is the name of the slave colony in Disney's "20K Leagues under the Sea" where Nemo was forced to mine nitrates before he escaped. (BTW, bird guano, which built up by the ton on small islands, was the main source of nitrates for explosives before the Haber-Bosch process was developed in the 20th century. It's one of the reasons the British took over so many small, uninhabited islands in the 17th and 18th centuries.)
Also, the entire climactic scene was lifted straight from "The Manchurian Candidate" but in a very respectful way.
Something that I've always wondered about is that in the opening it is the Excelsior, not the Enterprise, that is sampling gaseous anomalies. So how does the Enterprise end up with the gas-sampling torpedo? It should have come from the Excelsior. Any help on this?
Well, Nimoy was producer. Takei wasn't. Therefore Spock has the idea and rescues ships and peace, not Sulu. (Shhh: The movie makes no sense.)
@@vienneseanalysis Thanks! That's probably it and they just hoped no one would notice.
Apparently, originally it was Sulu who was meant to save them with a special torpedo but they changed it in order to make the Enterprise crew look more heroic.
I thought the reason for changing Saavik to Valeris was because Robin Curtis wasn't available, so instead of recasting the character a 3rd time they just make it a different character.
One thing worth mentioning IMO are Cliff Eidelman's score for this movie which works really well at creating a foreboding tone highlighted by bits of optimism. Then there's Michael Dorn's role as Kirk's advocate at the trial. That was just cool. Also, while Sulu being captain of the Excelsior was written in because George Takei didn't want to be on set with Shatner I think it worked in the story's favor. Rumors abounded about a Captain Sulu show afterwards primarily because of a brief cameo by Christian Slater as one of his crew but sadly those rumors never came true.
I think I might have solved the shield issue you mentioned. Is it probable that since the certain federation brass (Admiral Cartwright, and Colonial West) worked with the Klingons and Romulan Ambassador, they would have given access to the Enterprise A shield modulation to Gen C’hang just as the Duras Sisters used it against the Enterprise D in Generations?
Has any one in the history of the world ever watched this movie and seriously "failed to notice" the big black fabric strip Spock slaps on Kirk that somehow goes through his whole trial, transport and imprisonment unnoticed? Speaking of which, how long was Kirk wearing those clothes? What did he smell like when they rescued him? No wonder Valaris had no trouble believing he was a corpse...
Great review. I remember watching this at the drive-in with my friends back in the 90’s (I was early 20’s). I just found it online and am going to rewatch it. Thanks for reminding me of this Dave!
Hey, Dave! In TOS, the shields of a ship were skintight to the hull, not a giant bubble. After the fourth hit in the Khitomer battle, when Scotty says "She's packing quite a whallop!" We cut to the outside of the ship to see the shield flickering around the impact site where there's a scorchmark but no penetration. The fifth shot against the Excelsior shows the shield flare on impact which also prevents penetration.
There is a thousand times more wisdom and humanity in this review (not to mention the movie itself, which I prefer even over Wrath of Khan) than in everything shat out under the "Star Trek" misnomer since 2009.
I'm really enjoying these reviews, Dave. Keep 'em up!
This popped up in a search, so I watched again. Great review. I was reminded of just how magnificent the ships appeared in the original films. No matter how good the CGI becomes, it will never look better than practical effects. I would rather see models with a few imperfections than "perfect" CGI. I truly miss this art form represented in special effects.
The shield do work, they just aren't the "bubble" seen in later iterations of Star Trek. In the shot where the torpedo glances off the top of the saucer, you see that the shields physically stopped the torpedo, but the force of the explosion still damages the hull. Granted this isn't how shields are normally shown to work, but they technically *are* working, going by the dialogue. The torpedoes don't penetrate the hull until Scotty announces that the shields are collapsing.
One of my most beloved movies.
Every time I have seen this film, the reveal of the human assasin underneath the klingon disguise was always included.
Even on TV back in the 90's
I was a freshman in high school when Star Trek VI came out and I remember there being a poster for the movie on the wall outside the door to the boys locker room at school. Not sure who put it up but it did get me hype for seeing the movie.
The straight hair and British accents of the Klingons was unexpected.
Always been my favorite of the Trek movies. Plummer was magnificent as Chang, and the Enterprise Crew was superb.
This was the first Star Trek movie I ever saw in theatres and it was an amazing experience, one of my favourite movies to this day
This was my real introduction to Star Trek, although my grandmother had watched it for years so I'd kind of informally seen it. My dad took me to this one in the theater when I was 12 and I was absolutely hooked. For that reason, it remains my favorite of the films and still holds up very, very well. The writing and performances were fantastic, excellent direction, fantastic score. Great review!