It is my head canon that Spock's custom uniform pants has a pocket for a "where the hell did kirk go" tracker and you can't change my mind with another fantastic video
That's what I always thought too. They been together long enough for him to know. It's like experienced dog owners that keep treats in their pockets for their dogs who have a tendency to try and take off.
On the last point, Kirk says, we are due to stand down and the ship is to be decommissioned. Standing down, I always took it as from the current mission they were on. Due to the Enterprise being decommissioned, it would make sense that they would either be reassigned or retire. I was never under the impression that they were all retiring at the same time.
And my personal theory is that decommissioning the Enterprise-A was part of the terms of the peace treaty, and they were mothballing all of the Constitution class ships, which the Klingons might have seen as particularly aggressive toward the Empire.
If anything, Starfleet was probably going to assign a crew as experienced as the Enterprise's to the Academy to help train new officers. Like in Wrath of Khan.
Uhura mentions that she was supposed to be chairing a seminar at the Academy during the briefing, so she definitely had other irons in the fire. Along with Scotty having "just bought a boat", presumably for his upcoming retirement as seen in TNG Relics.
I always understood the Enterprise A is over and the crew thus most likely separated to more modern ships - as foreshadowed with Sulu. The Excelsior class was probably to take over the long missions.
Well we know that Spock became an ambassador. Kirk was lost in the Nexus. Sulu Captain of the Excelsior. Scotty got trapped in a transporter buffer on the Dyson Sphere. McCoy I believe taught medical stuff at Starfleet. Not sure what became of Uhura or Chekov
As to #4, the intercom: There is nothing to say that Chang's voice was heard all over the ship. It was being heard on the bridge and Kirk had an open comm line to the torpedo room. So, when Chang was heard on the bridge, his voice could have been piped down to the torpedo room over that same line.
It always sounds like he says “if SHE’d shut up”… And Bones’s one liners in that sequence are just awful. “I bet you wish you’d stood in bed.” Sure. Because we were all sleeping soundly this morning.
When the bird of prey pulls up next to the Enterprise, Kirk says " I've never been this close", when in fact, he was on board a Klingon vessel in the previous movie! That line always bugged me!
The BOP wasn't there at that point, or at least it was cloaked. Kirk was referring to the D-7 cruiser, a ship he'd never been aboard previously (aside from the Romulan stormbird version from "The Enterprise Incident").
I was going to write a lengthy retort to most of these points, but I'll simply say this: There's a point where nitpicking no longer feels like it's good natured or objective criticism, but meant to genuinely damage a work and people's enjoyment/perception of that work. This list, and how it's presented, feels like it's solidly in the latter category. Either that, or a class of trolling intended to stir the ire of fans and get clicks.
I think weed comes from one of the less-sexual Pleasure Planets. But maybe Risa has a flower that both gets you stoned and rock-hard. Romulus is all about meth-like uppers. "I won't miss a trick I WON'T MISS A TRICK DAMN YOU"
Yeah, a number of these points are valid, and yet none of this prevents Star Trek 6 from being a satisfying adventure. I admit that I am not crazy about the characters being stuck in the same assignments, but many fans want to see the crew as a family who always stick together. But I am certain that Sulu getting a ship had been mentioned before.
McCoy mentions retirement, Scotty also hints at it, all indications point to their respective space careers coming to an end. Even if Spock and Chekov remain in the service (the only two that seem to beyond the film anyway), its still retirement for the majority of them
Right, some members of the crew went on to do other things. Kirk, Scotty and Chekov were still serving 6 month later when the Enterprise B was commissioned. It was only after this that Scotty retired and headed to the Norpin Colony. Spock served a few more years before retiring and eventually becoming an Ambassador. Not much on the others in canon but it safe to assume the Chekov and Uhura served in other positions for some time
Since you choose to be so nitpicky with that final entry, Uhura also had a different assignment in Star Trek III, which is the in-story explanation for why she is not with the crew for much of the film.
10. Martia probably hid her ability to mimic voices up to that point, and maybe the fight with Kirk made it difficult to change back (“it takes a lot of effort”) 4. I took McCoy and Spock hearing Chang in the torpedo bay as them leaving a channel to the bridge open, so they could quickly let them know the torpedo was ready. 1. I took the amount of damage Entprise-A received in the battle as the reason for the decommissioning (in III the original Enterprise being so badly damaged by Khan seemed to be an excuse to write off the hull, or as the Admiral told Kirk, “there will be no refit.”)
So many of these are potentially really easy to explain or justify. It does sort of feel that whoever wrote this list was really struggling to get a list of 10 things together.
The funny thing is,... the ones listed here aren't even the worst ones. 1) if Praxis' explosion devastated the atmosphere of Qo'noS,... then why not simply move the Klingon Empire's seat of power to another planet within the Empire? 2) if Praxis was the key energy production facility (i.e. the main Dilithium mine), then why not beef up mining operations elsewhere,... like Rura Penthe? 3) If the Neutral Zone is still a thing,... why the hell is there a Romulan AMBASSADOR? 4) And that is not the only Neutral Zone. They openly state there is one between the Federation and Klingons (which is stupid),... so why is there also a KLINGON ambasador? Its almost as if Nick Meyer not only forgot which empire the Neutral Zone separated from the Federation (even using a star system name near ROMULAN space, not Klingon, in the beginning of Wrath of Khan... oops), but also forgot what a Neutral Zone even WAS. 5) If Praxis was so near to Qo'noS to devastate its atmosphere,... then how did its shockwave reach OUTSIDE of Klingon territory and all the way out to the Excelsior? ... and exactly how long did that take? AND, if it was able to reach that far, that quickly,... then they would have felt it on Earth ffs 6) ... Why is everyone traveling at Impulse Power? First the Excelsior "heading home under Full Impulse Power", and later the Enterprise escorting Kronos One from the Klingon border to Earth... at Impulse speeds? Exactly how many decades away is the conference? 7) the torpedo that struck Kronos One was shot from underneath the Enterprise, right? ... did the Enterprise not have any sensors? It was able to track a radiation surge... but not able to track the path of a torpedo, even with visual records of it? Was it a stealth torpedo or something? 7a) and after the first hit, were the Klingons not WATCHING the Enterprise to see that the second shot didn't come from the torpedo launcher, but from underneath the ship? 7b) where exactly WAS the actual CREW of Kronos One? Did it not have its own bridge with a command and operations staff? Did General Chang just tell them all to take a break while he manned the bridge by himself or something? 8) why the hell is NO ONE trained how to function in zero gravity, while serving on a SPACE SHIP? Especially if you're supposed to be a deadly Klingon warrior? Uhura heard the weapons fire over the comms, so surely the moment a Klingon heard it, their first instinct would and should be to arm themselves. And you can't tell me there aren't disruptors and bat'leths in handy storage lockers throughout the ship. I could go on
@@k1productions87 1) How easy could it be to evacuate the main world of one of the largest interstellar empires in the beta quadrant? I don't know the population size but it should be in the order of tens of billions. Also I guess there are a lot of important infrastructure within the system which could take decades to rebuild somewhere else, like shipyards and such. 2) I always assumed it provided energy for the Qo'noS system somehow. Beefing up the energy production somewhere else would not help the system an the people living there or the important infrastructure. Unless it was really something so simple as dilithium mining. 3) I'm not sure why can't there be a Romulan ambassador. I know the romulans went totally silent after the Treaty of Algeron but before that there was some level of diplomatic communication. 4) Similarly for Klingon Ambassador. 5) The video also mentioned the explanation how the destruction of Praxis damaged Qo'noS was stupid. This is just another side of it. Faster than light effects of certain events is an established trope in the universe. There are episodes with similar things (destructive waves etc.) affecting ships many ly away from the source virtually instantly after the event. 7) Enterprise sensor logs could have been manipulated. If I remember correctly some of them actually WERE manipulated according to the story. 8) Was there any episode where the artificial gravity malfunctioned before this? I know this is just to keep the production costs down, but in universe you could say that the technology was so reliable that most people didn't need zero-g training. And even if had training, that doesn't make you effective in combat against people who can safely stand on their feat. Was the reaction of the klingon crew underwhelming looking back now? Yes. But remember that Star Trek was never an action packed franchise before this so I think this is as much as one can expect for a close quarters combat scene at that time.
Another one for the list. Why was Bones on the Bridge during the battle, shouldn't he have been in sickbay treating the casualties that would have come flooding in? This has always bothered me.
My goodness, I had a long-ass list of complains she didn't mention, and even I forgot about this little nugget. Seriously, Sickbay should have been even more flooded than it was after Khan's sneak attack FFS. Do your JOB, Bones!
The narrative on the "We're to be decommissioned" part is they were to stand down from their posts on the ship having "done our bit for king and country" and the Enterprise-A herself to be decommissioned and placed either into training ship duty, such as how the 1701 dash nothing ended up, or parked up in the mothball fleet, and latterly placed into the fleet museum, with the crew moving on to new things, whether it was retirement (E.G. Scotty in TNG's "Relics"), ambassadorial roles (Spock bothering the romulans & Bones seeing the Enterprise-D off as a very old man), or moving onto new, faster and better-equipped ships, just as Rand & Sulu had done prior to the movie knowing the Enterprise-A was on her last legs as an active duty ship, so, not the people decommissioned, just the vessel that held them...
@@BrennaUrbangirl But that was only seen about a century later, in the interim there's not really any known canon history of what happened to the -A after decommissioning in TUC, which is why I made educated assumptions that the -A was put on cadet training duty as per its' predecessor (the so-called "boat-load of children" in TWOK) before being fully retired, mothballed and eventually shipped off to the museum... :)
In Star Trek: Picard, there was a plaque stating that (after the events of ST VI), Uhura became Captain of The Star-Gazer which decades later became Picard's first Command.
While this undoubtfully my favorite of the movies, my biggest problem is Kirk having to be reminded that "Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place." If anyone in the galaxy would already know this it'd be Captain Kirk. That's to me the dumbest thing in Undiscovered Country
I love Star Trek V because as far as I remember that was my first exposure to TOS when I was like 7 or 8 years old in 96. Come on, I know it’s corny but we’ve been caught in a blizzard still makes me crack up!
#6: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Gravity has a constant pull, compressing your body. When the gravity stops, so does the compression. You're sort of like a very inefficient spring at this point, so you will leave your chair... slowly.
The body's mass makes inertia decently hard to overcome. But regardless of how slow they should have been trained how to respond to sudden loss of gravity.
@@radaro.9682 No debate about the training. Still, we should also mention the torpedoes should have caused their own jolts to help them out of their seats, as could decompression due to any hull breaches the ship may have sustained.
I can understand them "drifting" out their chairs. Kronos One was tumbling in space. It was not so much they floated up, as much as the table and chairs, fixed to the deck of the moving ship, had moved away from them. The disruptor floating out of the holster, on the other hand, is just dumb.
I just thought a small secondary explosion could have accelerated the ship's drift, and caused them to leave their seats. Or, more accurately, caused the seats to leave them.
@@adamk4242 Certainly possible. Also, there's no reason to assume that _all_ of the ship's maneuvering thrusters were offline. If only just a couple were still operating (with other's malfunctioning) then the ship could have been nudged around very chaotically.
This is such a great film that I forgot about some of the less amazing aspects of it. Some great points raised here. It's testament to the great bits of the film that this remains a superb title despite the janky moments!
I guess some real practice is required to perform cirurgy, not only basic anatomy . Or would you allow a Klingon to remove you a tooth just reading the procedure from a book.
@@Raja1938 Yeah, this is McCoy who gives a 20th-century hospital patient a pill and she grows a new kidney, this is the doctor who complains about the barbarism of 20th Century medicine "drilling holes in one's head" for brain surgery - and can't stop massive bleeding in a Klingon "because he doesn't know their anatomy"?
Floating out of the chairs makes sense. Normally, the cushions/springs/whatever are compressed so as to balance the weight of the occupant, exerting what is referred to as the normal force. With the artificial gravity turned off, the compressed elements would relax, propelling the occupants upward.
The universal translator sequence was the most dumb. If they didn't want the use of it exposed, and Uhura didn't know that language, she could have asked the computer to translate her response into klingon, then display it on screen in the form of phonetic English sounds for her to read back aloud.
Absolutely! I guess the writers wanted to insert comedy relief so they had everybody grab books (where'd they come from? Does the ship have a museum on board?) and figure out Klingonese.
On the topic of who beamed Burke and Samno to and from the ship, I think it was pretty clear that those two and Valeris weren't the only two conspirators on the Enterprise. The moment that springs to mind is when the announcement is made to take a statement in sickbay, and two... waiters, I guess? look at each other in shock when they hear the names of Burke and Samno. I took that to mean that they were among the people in on it and thus thought those two were dead. Thus, it's not a stretch to think that a transporter tech was also part of the team.
@@kenwynn3871 That's possible. I've always been a little fuzzy on the protocols for ship-to-ship beaming. Like, when the Klingons beamed to and from the Enterprise, it was the Enterprise that initiated it. It seems logical that it can work either way, the two ships would just need to coordinate. And in this case I'm sure who did what was very meticulously planned.
@ReticentDuet they used the klingon transporter effect for their beaming, so I assumed the BoP was the initiator. Beam them from Enterprise pad, to BoP, to Klingon pad, and then the reverse aftwrward
#11 would be what the Romulans had to gain from all this. We learn the Romulan ambassador is involved in the conspiracy but no explanation is ever given as to why. Did the Romulans know and just kept quiet and secretly have the ambassador help so they could sit back, watch the fireworks and then swoop in and conquer what's left? Did the ambassador stumble on the plot and agreed to help however he can in exchange for a piece of the action? It's a pretty big plot hole you can fly an prototype bird of prey through
I would argue that #1 is a bit dumb, but the beauty of the sentiment outweighs it. As a sendoff for the vast majority of the original crew (with Generations stretching it a bit), it's very moving.
The uniform point can be explained by the psychological impact it would have on the UFP seeing two long serving and decorated officers on trail and then in the prisoners in Rua P'Nthea. EDIT: spelling
Interesting. I had thought that the reason why Martia didn't shift out of Kirk's form when they were captured was that she had probably thought that she could have had persuaded them in to possibly shooting Kirk during their confusion as to who was the accurate person that they were after.
She said earlier that it takes a lot of effort. That was the in canon script reason they provided for us as to why she shouldn't change back. She'd already changed just not that long ago so it was more effort than she could manage to change back suddenly.
Sulu's opening log entry: "We're headed home under full impulse power". Great, now how long would that be from near the Klingon Neutral Zone to Earth at sublight? How many thousands of years?
Honestly, the DUMBEST things in this movie (that you missed) are the implications that 1. Starfleet only exists as a military unit intended to counter the Klingon Empire, and that 2. With the dissolution of the Klingon Empire, Starfleet would be disbanded as an organization, as if there are no other threats. This is all laid out in the opening board room scene, and it's utterly ridiculous. Starfleet is NOT a military, and it certainly doesn't exist only to counter the Klingons!! Plus, even if it was, the Romulans are still out there - not to mention plenty of other folks they haven't even met yet! Also, the idea that Kirk would actively want to see the genocide of an entire race (in the "Let them die!" scene) was hideously insulting towards the character of Captain Kirk. Honestly, that's the most offensive thing to me in this movie!
Possible explainations. The romulan ale was brought on board to be used to cause an incident that would have ended the possible peace summit and kirk be retired in shame. When that didn't happen, the assassination was the fallback plan. The person doing the beaming back from the klingon ship could be the same mysterious person that restored gravity who was also the person that was disguised as a klingon to assassinate the chancelors daughter since she decided to carry on with the peace summit. The changling was flat-out stupid and trusted a CO. The oxygen is depleted because Kronos doesnt have natural oxygen production like trees or algae. It's all done with air purifying towers and the polution from the moon being destroyed will permanently damage the machines and they wont be able to keep up with repairs/replacements. They also are a war driven society as has been mentioned in Star Trek Enterprise so environmental protection was never a thing and air purifying machines was a necessity build. The patch..they could explain that its a unique feature of Kirks uniform since he has yo-yoed so many times to admiral and back to captain. They can even explain its a mark of shame for falling from the admiral position. The better question is how did kirk not get affected by a patch that can signal 2 sectors away! Yes they are space idiots that floated from their chairs and lost their guns from a secure holster. There is a noticable difference from having gravity to just not having it affect you. Small planes are great to experience it and at first you'll react irradict and that can make you shift but not randomly float away. The entire gas homing torpedo was stupid. I'd tie this into them broadcasting the taunts and say Channg was being a gloating fool and while cloaked he should have been running silent and his loud mouth gave them away and kirj was able to track the signal to where they are. But going with the gas, you could say they wanted spok and bones to know that the bastered was still talking and not getting serious about destroying them so they had time. They had to bump up Nichelle's skills because she was vital in TOS to the point of Martin Luther King Jr told her she must stay on the show and also she earned some improvement in her stats. That said, she shouldn't have needed to flip through pages of a language book to piece together a reply. She should have been able to say something back farely fluently. With the planets security I'd say it was more planet based defenses and any ship that dropped off was either sent away to not draw attention to the planet or the fact there was 3 different ships from 3 different enemies. Instead i feel there would have been a neutral ship that was modified to be a very strong defensive ship carry all parties. It would have been better if they all were called back to be the emissaries since they all were highly decorated and they brought the Enterprise out of moth balls to be a symbol (sad one at that) that the old ways of war is over and the time for peace is being made between old enemies.
Good lord, the nitpicking here is beyond obnoxious. If so many of your questions start with "But why didn't...?", you really need to learn how to just relax and enjoy something. I enjoy this channel for its more positive attitude, so videos like this just deeply grate on me.
Btw, Romulan Ale was I think already Illegal at the time, so she knowing that a supply is on board and suggesting to use it is breaking the law and she offers the ale to her captain/ superior officer for an official diplomatic dinner. That's definetly NOT officer thinking. She shold destroy it rather than suggesting to use it...
The real reason behind the convenience of the gaseous anomaly equipment used to destroy Chang's ship was due to a scene re-write. The setup at the start of the movie of the Excelsior cataloguing gaseous anomalies was because the early drafts of the script had SULU coming to the conclusion that was ultimately given to Spock, and it was the EXCELSIOR that installed its equipment in a torpedo that found the BoP. But certain people (cough, SHATNER, cough cough) didn't like the idea of the Excelsior being the hero ship. So for the sake of expediency, and not having to reshoot other scenes, the lines were given to the Enterprise crew instead. Thus feeding the Takei-Shatner feud (be it one-way or not), which must have made Sulu's final line to Kirk a particularly bitter pill to swallow....
In this case, Shatner was right. Better to have the Enterprise do it for their last movie. The mistake was not greenlighting a series with Sulu as captain...
Sulu's promotion to Captain is not inexplicable. In a line, that made it into the novelization for the Wrath of Khan but was omitted from the movie, it's mentioned that Sulu was to become Captain of the Excelsior way back then and that he had been recommended for the post by Kirk when he was still an Admiral.
Not unpopular at all. I've never hated Star Trek 5. By the time I realized most of its problems, I'd already enjoyed it since I was a kid. It was, in fact, the first Star Trek film I saw in the theater :P
Here’s the thing: when a ship is decommissioned, that doesn’t mean it’s headed for the scrapyard, it just means it’s no longer on active duty. The original Enterprise would have been decommissioned in order to do the 18-month refit, then the plan would be to recommission it with Decker as CO.
This movie isn't perfect, but I would quibble with #6: It was established during the mind meld that there was a conspiracy between Chang and Cartwright, thus probably a Klingon agent acting on board the ship to help the assassins. Also #2, I could be wrong, but the "constant as the northern star" quote is actually the Federation president, not Chang.
I had heard that it was supposed to be captain Sulu and crew that came up with the homing torpedo idea, but Shatner stepped in and said it should be Kirk and crew that saves the Enterprise.
I've heard this too, but it always sounded like something George Takei cooked up to grind his axe. Nick Meyer and his friend Flynn wrote this script, and Meyer isn't one that is easily talked into things. He even made Nimoy mad when he didn't do everything he (Nimoy) wanted in the story. Nimoy even quipped in his book "Nick Meyer carefully listened to all our suggestions, then ignored them."
@@tyranusfan Nick Myer (I worked @ Paramount Studio's, under Sherry Lansing tutelage, it was she who used to run thi gs quite fine!) was correct, also and I have boxes of old memo's from 1990 and 91 on this) that back up Nicolas Myers directives and George is not being truthful in his claims now all these years later years, and It seems he still was upset his LINES CUT from TWOKhan in 1982 nearly ten years earlier and will do anything to harp on William Shatner,, forgetting it was HIS show and Movie franchise and he George, as a supporting member of the team, and each person in that process of production has his or her job to do. 👀 He has endlessly whined and complained like a sppilt child so many times against Shatner just in my life since his autobiographical book, To The Stars! in 1993. I have no answers here myself, maybe... but..only questions, from Mr. Spock! Dude, do we leave a crazed Commodores in charge of the ship again or something? LOL 😂 💥 PASS THE Bongo daddies! 💃🏾😎🍭💞🏴
@nnings And he only started his noise when the conventions began - and he got paid to appear. Koenig has often pointed out that they never complained at the time. (Actually, Nichols did complain about her part - to Roddenberry when she quit once and publicly to TV Guide, and her part got a little stronger after. ) One other thing: so far as I know, Mr. Shatner has not said one nasty word about Takei, unless in jest perhaps. Also, I should add, George owes me five dollars.
Sulu's log, before Praxis explodes, states that they are "mapping gaseous anomalies". This is the setup for the torpedo to use that technology later. It makes sense that it was intended that Excelsior fire the torpedo that reveals the Bird of Prey. Later, on the bridge of the Enterprise, while being fired upon, there is a throwaway line to the effect of "aren't we carrying all that equipment to map gaseous anomalies?". No, Enterprise. You're not. Excelsior is.
Yeah. I think you’re overthinking it. You kind find fault with anything if you look hard enough. This is my favorite TOS movie along with wrath of Khan. And I’m sure there are a lot errors in that movie too. Oh well.
These videos are increasingly just unpleasant. This channel used to celebrate Star Trek, but it now seems to just be shitting on everything now. It might be time to retool.
The real question is: after several decades of facing cloaked opponents, why had NOBODY in Starfleet ever thought of tracking their exhaust before? You know they must have had teams dedicated to figuring out how to deal with combat against cloaked ships.
He was an engineer through and through. He got into a fistfight brawl with the Klingons when the Klingon said the Enterprise should be hauled away as garbage! Trouble with Tribbles.
Look, I like this channel. But these are severe nit picks by you. I mean come on...some of your reasoning is an over reach. But of all the movies, these are relatively minor
@@atzuras The Klingon ship from Search for Spock was never destroyed. It went back in time, went into San Francisco Bay, and eventually to the fleet museum.
The cooking pot. Normally, the cooking pot would have to dissolve the food in it after the phaser shot. But the food, after being shot on the cooking pot, is distributed on the stovetop.
I have one: Chekov got shoehorned into the "audience surrogate" role in this film. It was his job to ask the obvious questions, such as "why not simply Waporize them?" to have Valeris dramatically shoot the pot in the galley. Trouble is, he was mentioned to be the tactical officer/security chief in The Motion Picture...he should know about weapons fire aboard a starship. It makes him look dumb. (For my money, this would have been an excellent excuse to have someone like Dr. Chapel along for the ride, so that she--a non-bridge officer--could be tasked with asking the questions so that the exposition can flow. Granted, this would have given Walter Koenig even less to do.)
In an environment where zero-G was 1. Once a thing and 2. Could be a thing, there 100% eould be a wee little magnet in that holster, keeping a phaser from flipping away but not impeding a quick-draw.
People give this film a generous amount of leeway due to it 1:Following and being a course-correction for ST:V, 2:Nicholas Meyer gets residual love for Kahn, and 3: It's the the cast farewell. However, everything pointed out here and more is correct. The flaws in this film, not just Trek cannon or lore, but as a film in general are huge. Some qualify as "unbelievably dumb".
For #6, I think it was because of the ship going into a spin. With the gravity disabled, it's likely that the inertial dampeners would be damaged as well, meaning there would be nothing holding them in place as the ship moved around them.
Seem to recall Sulu had expressed a thing for the Excelsior in Star Trek 3, he was experienced but had not been a second officer to my knowledge? Chekov had but had been compromised in Wrath of Khan and his career stalled, Scotty just wanted to be an engineer and was made Captain's rank in Star Trek 3 and Uhura seemed to just want some peace and quiet in her career (sure last one implied that she seconded at the Academy). After such a distinguished career i dare say they got to pick assignments towards the end, and whilst the A was decommissioned they went onto other things.
The last one #1 is the most plausible. I'm nearing retirement age. I've done a lot of things before I went into IT Support. Since being in IT Support, I've been every level, L1, L2, L3, L4 and various random other positions in IT. Currently I've been back to L2 support the past 5 years. I can contribute the most doing what I'm currently doing. Plus I enjoy the work. Moral of the story, maybe they can all do many things outside of what they are currently doing but because they enjoy their jobs and their coworkers, they want to do what they've been doing all these years. Point #2 Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski. For those of you who may not know. They played together for 11 seasons. Then they retired together.
List was lame but 2 made sense, there should have been a fleet of security around a conference like that not only in orbit but alerting the people there. How did Kirk and crew just beam in unannounced like that? Especially when there had already been an assassination!
Oh there are even more that weren't even mentioned here 1) if Praxis' explosion devastated the atmosphere of Qo'noS,... then why not simply move the Klingon Empire's seat of power to another planet within the Empire? 2) if Praxis was the key energy production facility (i.e. the main Dilithium mine), then why not beef up mining operations elsewhere,... like Rura Penthe? 3) If the Neutral Zone is still a thing,... why the hell is there a Romulan AMBASSADOR? 4) And that is not the only Neutral Zone. They openly state there is one between the Federation and Klingons (which is stupid),... so why is there also a KLINGON ambasador? Its almost as if Nick Meyer not only forgot which empire the Neutral Zone separated from the Federation (even using a star system name near ROMULAN space, not Klingon, in the beginning of Wrath of Khan... oops), but also forgot what a Neutral Zone even WAS. 5) If Praxis was so near to Qo'noS to devastate its atmosphere,... then how did its shockwave reach OUTSIDE of Klingon territory and all the way out to the Excelsior? ... and exactly how long did that take? AND, if it was able to reach that far, that quickly,... then they would have felt it on Earth ffs 6) ... Why is everyone traveling at Impulse Power? First the Excelsior "heading home under Full Impulse Power", and later the Enterprise escorting Kronos One from the Klingon border to Earth... at Impulse speeds? Exactly how many decades away is the conference? 7) the torpedo that struck Kronos One was shot from underneath the Enterprise, right? ... did the Enterprise not have any sensors? It was able to track a radiation surge... but not able to track the path of a torpedo, even with visual records of it? Was it a stealth torpedo or something? 7a) and after the first hit, were the Klingons not WATCHING the Enterprise to see that the second shot didn't come from the torpedo launcher, but from underneath the ship? 7b) where exactly WAS the actual CREW of Kronos One? Did it not have its own bridge with a command and operations staff? Did General Chang just tell them all to take a break while he manned the bridge by himself or something? 8) why the hell is NO ONE trained how to function in zero gravity, while serving on a SPACE SHIP? Especially if you're supposed to be a deadly Klingon warrior? Uhura heard the weapons fire over the comms, so surely the moment a Klingon heard it, their first instinct would and should be to arm themselves. And you can't tell me there aren't disruptors and bat'leths in handy storage lockers throughout the ship. I could go on
The dumbest thing is that Valeris knows that a phaser fired onboard Enterprise sets off an audible alarm; Chekov does not know this despite having nominally been in some kind of security role or first officer role since TMP.
I think, and I have absolutely nothing to bank this up, that if gravity were suddenly set to zero, your natural interaction with your environment (the way your butt interacts with your seat, your feet interacting with the floor, etc.) would quickly cause you to "float", and the more that you tried to stop "floating" the more you would actually separate from your environment.
Knocking a fantastic film entry holds zero validity when more current Trek offerings are questionable minute to minute throughout their entire seasons. TUC’s biggest flaws are pure dilithium next to the overflowing tribble litterbox offered over the last several years.
At 1:23 when fake Kirk says "Kill him! He's the one!", he's inexplicably pointing above real Kirk's head even though they're BOTH STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER. Horrible shot & editing that I noticed the first time in the theatre, and still bugs me to no end that they've never tried to digitally correct it in subsequent releases. Just sloppy.
The think you forgot to mention is the whole Valaris (who has graduated top of her class) creating the same sense of anxiety navigating out of space dock as the trainee Saavik. Indeed if you look at the guy in engineering to the right of Scottie during this scene you would think it's the strangest thing ever to have happened.
The biggest nonsense in Trek Vi is not only the dribble about Praxis, but the idea that a so-called warrior race capable of conquering entire star systems and (presumably 100s of worlds) lacks the ability to relocate the population of its own home world, even with a good 40-50 year time frame in which to do it, and so would accept help from one of its biggest enemies, publicly or privately. Add to that the rest of the points raised here, plus the clear Valeris / Saavik substitution & Spock's mentoring (or does he have a thing for young Vulcan hotties?) and you have the reasons I've always felt this film is one of the weakest of the TOS franchise - second only to Trek V in terms of weakness - and it is only the fact that it came after the unmitigated poop of the latter that has resulted in it being lauded by fans ever since.
It always seemed to me that the script was written in a hurry to satisfy a marketing goal, with elements tossed in to satisfy one perceived audience expectation or another, without regard for either continuity or character consistency. I think the movie works if you allow yourself to be entertained by it without actually questioning anything (which I think is what the producers expected), but otherwise falls apart. As an example, the manual translation scene seems like it was intended to inject "comedic tension", doing so in a rather clumsy way. Similarly, keeping the "old gang" together was a forced attempt to revive the chemistry of the original series - as was similarly attempted in all of the previous movies. In as much as we all want to see all the old gang, that time had obviously already passed as of the first movie. Wrath of Khan sort-of acknowledged that, which I think is one of the reasons it was the best of the bunch.
Why does a bloodthirsty Klingon even quote Shakespeare? Shakespeare was a romantic Guy (Big Love, Relationships, Strong Womans). A Poet. Anything Shakespearean would be seen as a weakness by the Klingons.
@@wearwolf2500 I'm not sure of the actual number but I know there is more than 1 person with the rank of Captain on an American aircraft carrier, but only 1 "Captain" of the ship. Synonyms can be confusing in the military lol.
I thought this was wild too - Captain Kirk, Captain Spock and Scotty was promoted to Captain as well - of course I understand that you can have more than one rank of Captain on a ship it’s just weird that way though….something we hadn’t seen in Star Trek at that time.
Thank you for showing a scene with the late David McCallum in "Great Escape". Before his role as Dr. Ducky Mallard, he was my favourite in "Man From U.N.C.L.E." and other tv programmes and movies,etc. He was also a musician and conducted 4 albums during those years. Too bad he didn't get to play on "Star Trek".
I think it’s been said enough that the thought wasn’t that they were all retiring however I can understand the confusion if just how it “sounds” but Uhura CLEARLY said she was chairing a seminar meaning she was still working - we can’t take everything at face value - we have to believe some stuff has happened off screen that may not get mentioned in the movie.
Where do you think the replicators get their raw materials? Replicators can't create their items from nothing. They need raw materials from what is fed into them to make whatever is asked of them to replicate. Any waste on the ship goes into their raw material storage where it is broken down and then reconstituted by a type of transporter technology into whatever is needed.
One thing I always found dumb is a comment by Chang (also dumb to give a Klingon an Asian sounding name). Chang says that "the undiscovered country" is peace. In Shakespeare "the undiscovered country" is death. Maybe Chang was just altering the meaning of the words to better fit the situation, but as such a stickler for Shakespeare it comes off as clumsy.
Kang is an Asian name that they've used for a Klingon in the original series. As for the meaning of "the undiscovered country", it's Gorkon that interprets it as "the future". Plus we're talking about the Klingon version of Hamlet.
With the space battle one, it’s always irked me that the Enterprise never fires back. Even as Scotty’s repeatedly yelling about the shields collapsing, they never fire a shot with the phasers. While the whole conceit is that they can’t tell where the cloaked bird of prey is, you’d think the “expert tactician” that is Kirk would’ve at least tried firing wildly on the off-chance they actually hit something (like they did in “Balance of Terror”). In contrast, Picard actually has the right idea in “Star Trek Nemesis” when the Scimitar knocks them out of warp. He INSTANTLY tells Worf to fire the phasers in a “zero elevation” pattern, knowing that the Scimitar’s just fired at them from right behind them. They then continue this idea of trying to fire either at wherever the Scimitar’s just fired from or where they’ve hit something. Simple! Also, with regards the TOS crew being stuck together all those years, there was a deleted bit of dialogue in the shuttle pod scene early in “The Wrath of Khan”. When Sulu’s saying “Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise…”, it’s clear George Takei’s about to continue speaking. What he’s originally said was that he was that he was soon due to take command of the nearly-completed Excelsior. So, had the events of TWOK and TSFS not occurred, he would’ve replaced Captain Styles and been on the Excelsior a lot sooner.
I think the dumbest thing was during the briefing, "Bill, are we considering mothballing the Stat Fleet". She must have forgotten the Romulans and many other groups are still out there. Flag officers, you gotta love them.
The pink blood. (I know the real-world reason for it. It's still dumb.) Dr. McCoy's sudden lack of knowledge of Klingon anatomy. He's had experience with them before...this is not his first rodeo. Even intoxicated or tired, he still should have known the basics of their internal layout. The lines about Klingons' lack of tear ducts (only in the Director's Cut) makes no sense for so many reasons. Azetbur being named Chancellor in her father's place, when it was established lore that women are not allowed to serve on the Klingon High Council. Colonel West's paper flipchart (again, only in the Director's Cut).
You doesn't have to take a promotion. The best example for that is Riker who had dozen chances of taking his own command but doesn't want to. The same maybe goes for the crew of the Enterprise. When you're happy where you are, then don't change it. "Promotion at ally costs" is useless and worthless.
The moronic premise of the Klingons (an empire that the writers keep saying can defeat the federation) needing help to evacuate their home world, is just so bad. Same thing with the Romulans (another massive empire that is said to rival the federation) needing help evacuating Romulus and Remus from a supernova. Even dumber is that apparently there was so much time Starfleet enough to build a whole new fleet to do it yet even after apparently the entire empire collapsed and the Romulans need to be groveling refugees? How? Why? I kind of assumed a star empire would, in both cases, span more than ONE or TWO planets.
About Martia: it makes sense if she knew they wanted to take Kirk alive. She wanted to look and sound exactly like Kirk, so they wouldn't kill her as she probably suspected they'd want to eliminate witnesses.
8. I think Spock's line about ozone pollution is referring to Praxis' destruction affecting the Qo'noS atmosphere with a catastrophic chemical reaction converting O2 into ozone, thus eventually depriving the Klingons of their oxygen supply.
I do like this channel but I think some of those points are nitpicks, unnecessary ones! In my opinion number 6 is one of the top 3 movies in the whole franchise!
I love the movie. That being said, the dumbest thing is actually the torpedo hits on Gorkon’s ship. If the cloaked bird-of-prey is under the Enterprise, it shouldn’t be that hard to figure out from the torpedo trajectories that they couldn’t have originated from the Enterprise’s launchers. The ships are pretty close together, so it should be a noticeable angle. If forensics experts today can figure out bullet trajectories why can’t they do it in the future?
The conspirators were able to alter Enterprise's computers to show that they had fired the torpedoes. I'd guess they could alter the sensor records of their trajectories as well(?)
I can speak to the ale. A strong drink may loosen a few tongues, but the first thing is that Klingons *prefer* strong drinking, and the second one is that Kirk didn't want to remember half the meeting because of his prejudices. That makes sense, at least. The moon, meanwhile, was saturated with heavy waste, plus a dramatic explosion of tha magnitude will have literally burned up the air on the Klingon homeworld. (There is no OSHA in the Klingon Empire.) That's what's making the air unbreathable. "Do they not notice that Kirk has the thing stuck to his shoulder?" No, they didn't. And for a number of years, neither did I. Case dismissed. The gravity sequence IS wrong, but I will say that transporters can be programmed to work on delay. It's been done. There is nothing wrong with the torpedo sequence. This is just quibbling. Obviously, General Chang assured everyone that he would oversee security personally, and they believed him. No one saw anything, because no one was looking for it. So easy. Sulu's presence as Captain of the Excelsior is not inexplicable. It is explained. He has been vying for Excelsior since the end of Star Trek IV. Clearly, he made it. But if you wanna know why everyone and the Enterprise is decommissioned at once IN-STORY, it's that the Enterprise is and always has been the most prestigious and important ship in Starfleet. The others didn't really wanna keep on, after that. Well, with SOME exception, but still... No, the REAL error that you painstakingly missed was that the plot doesn't actually make sense. All of this was predicated under the idea that 'Oh no, Starfleet's going to be disarmed because we're at peace with the Klingons!', and that's just dumb. Nobody's disarming anything. It's a big universe with so much stuff in it. The whole idea of this plot was for nothing, because both sides obviously need their guns, just not pointed at each other for obvious reasons.
It was an idea borrowed from history. There were some Nazis who once tried to appropriate Shakespeare as German. Since he was the greatest playwright in history, he must have been German. Kirk compares them to Hitler in the same scene.
Oh man... Let me introduce you to the idea of Cultural Appropriation, freind-o. Must seem kinda weird when it happens to folks unused to it happening to them.
A couple of things. 1. Why didn't Martia just change into someone that could leave the moon? Unless she was hired to do what she did, as dumb as it was. 2. Why does the Romulan ambassador have anything to do with Federation intelligence briefings?
This video is 'dumb'. This is one of the best Trek movies. The way this video is written is very disrespectful. You wanna show some honesty about 'New' Trek. Im not sure TrekCulture understands good story telling.
Captain Kirk gets tagged as the "Richard Nixon" of Star Trek. Only Nixon can go to China. Kirk gets caught on tape, admitting to a crime: drinking Romulan Ale.. and at the end of the movie, resigns his commission.
I would add some additional things. An explosion of the magnitude we saw on Praxis, which physically threated the Excelsior at who knows how many light years distance, would simply have destroyed Q'onos. Oh, and given that the Excelsior was who knows how many light years away when it happened, it could not possibly have been instantaneously affected. Any effects would have taken years, if not millennia, to have traveled that far. And also, the peace talks with the Klingons. Given that Q'onos was only gradually going to become uninhabitable, why couldn't the Klingons just gradually evacuate its population and industrial assets to other worlds in their own territory? Why did they have to stand down militarily, why did they need any help dealing with the crisis, and why did the Federation have to give them territory to settle in? None of it makes any sense. Imagine an accidental nuclear explosion irradiating Moscow and forcing its evacuation around 1970. America might have offered to help and that might have led to a lessening of tensions, but I don't think we would have had to let the Muscovites settle in Idaho.
Re: #9, it’s also probably a bad idea to offer Klingons the preferred drink of another of their mortal enemies. Sadly, they obviously wouldn’t have 2309 yet.
Chekov spent most of his life in Starfleet and needs a young whippersnapper to explain to him a phaser cannot be fired without triggering an alarm? And laughs aside, does Valeris need to actually vaporize a pot someone is actively cooking with? Presumably that phaser wasn’t set to stun… And why is a phaser set to kill stored in the kitchen?
The fifth movie reached such epic levels of dumbness that even the points mentioned here are mere pittances by comparison. We were more than willing to forgive Six its flaws.
There are more though.... 1) if Praxis' explosion devastated the atmosphere of Qo'noS,... then why not simply move the Klingon Empire's seat of power to another planet within the Empire? 2) if Praxis was the key energy production facility (i.e. the main Dilithium mine), then why not beef up mining operations elsewhere,... like Rura Penthe? 3) If the Neutral Zone is still a thing,... why the hell is there a Romulan AMBASSADOR? 4) And that is not the only Neutral Zone. They openly state there is one between the Federation and Klingons (which is stupid),... so why is there also a KLINGON ambasador? Its almost as if Nick Meyer not only forgot which empire the Neutral Zone separated from the Federation (even using a star system name near ROMULAN space, not Klingon, in the beginning of Wrath of Khan... oops), but also forgot what a Neutral Zone even WAS. 5) If Praxis was so near to Qo'noS to devastate its atmosphere,... then how did its shockwave reach OUTSIDE of Klingon territory and all the way out to the Excelsior? ... and exactly how long did that take? AND, if it was able to reach that far, that quickly,... then they would have felt it on Earth ffs 6) ... Why is everyone traveling at Impulse Power? First the Excelsior "heading home under Full Impulse Power", and later the Enterprise escorting Kronos One from the Klingon border to Earth... at Impulse speeds? Exactly how many decades away is the conference? 7) the torpedo that struck Kronos One was shot from underneath the Enterprise, right? ... did the Enterprise not have any sensors? It was able to track a radiation surge... but not able to track the path of a torpedo, even with visual records of it? Was it a stealth torpedo or something? 7a) and after the first hit, were the Klingons not WATCHING the Enterprise to see that the second shot didn't come from the torpedo launcher, but from underneath the ship? 7b) where exactly WAS the actual CREW of Kronos One? Did it not have its own bridge with a command and operations staff? Did General Chang just tell them all to take a break while he manned the bridge by himself or something? 8) why the hell is NO ONE trained how to function in zero gravity, while serving on a SPACE SHIP? Especially if you're supposed to be a deadly Klingon warrior? Uhura heard the weapons fire over the comms, so surely the moment a Klingon heard it, their first instinct would and should be to arm themselves. And you can't tell me there aren't disruptors and bat'leths in handy storage lockers throughout the ship. I could go on
Good review, but I feel like you missed the biggest mistake - why was McCoy helping Spock with adapting the photon torpedo when the ship was under attack, severely damaged, with injured crewmembers all over the ship who desperately required immediate triage and medical treatment?!?!? I cringe every time I see Spock ask McCoy to help him perform surgery on the torpedo, as if McCoy had nothing else going on. For those who think McCoy wasn't fit enough to treat patients after escaping the prison planet, just remember he was intoxicated and still tried to save Klingons when their ship was attacked. Please amend your video or make a "10 more things..."
It is my head canon that Spock's custom uniform pants has a pocket for a "where the hell did kirk go" tracker and you can't change my mind with another fantastic video
It is logical.
It’s also hilarious. I’m with you on this.
That's what I always thought too. They been together long enough for him to know. It's like experienced dog owners that keep treats in their pockets for their dogs who have a tendency to try and take off.
It's like when you lose your house keys, you need one of those whistling fobs, they get a little more advanced in the future.
He got tired of having to track Kirk down, so got a tracker for him. Like those trackers we have for dogs now.
On the last point, Kirk says, we are due to stand down and the ship is to be decommissioned. Standing down, I always took it as from the current mission they were on. Due to the Enterprise being decommissioned, it would make sense that they would either be reassigned or retire. I was never under the impression that they were all retiring at the same time.
And my personal theory is that decommissioning the Enterprise-A was part of the terms of the peace treaty, and they were mothballing all of the Constitution class ships, which the Klingons might have seen as particularly aggressive toward the Empire.
If anything, Starfleet was probably going to assign a crew as experienced as the Enterprise's to the Academy to help train new officers.
Like in Wrath of Khan.
Uhura mentions that she was supposed to be chairing a seminar at the Academy during the briefing, so she definitely had other irons in the fire. Along with Scotty having "just bought a boat", presumably for his upcoming retirement as seen in TNG Relics.
I always understood the Enterprise A is over and the crew thus most likely separated to more modern ships - as foreshadowed with Sulu.
The Excelsior class was probably to take over the long missions.
Well we know that Spock became an ambassador. Kirk was lost in the Nexus. Sulu Captain of the Excelsior. Scotty got trapped in a transporter buffer on the Dyson Sphere. McCoy I believe taught medical stuff at Starfleet. Not sure what became of Uhura or Chekov
As to #4, the intercom: There is nothing to say that Chang's voice was heard all over the ship. It was being heard on the bridge and Kirk had an open comm line to the torpedo room. So, when Chang was heard on the bridge, his voice could have been piped down to the torpedo room over that same line.
Still made a great scene though.
"I'd give real money if he'd shut up."
It always sounds like he says “if SHE’d shut up”… And Bones’s one liners in that sequence are just awful.
“I bet you wish you’d stood in bed.” Sure. Because we were all sleeping soundly this morning.
@@shanedenmark5536 i remember reading somewhere that was southern slang that slipped in there
When the bird of prey pulls up next to the Enterprise, Kirk says " I've never been this close", when in fact, he was on board a Klingon vessel in the previous movie! That line always bugged me!
The BOP wasn't there at that point, or at least it was cloaked. Kirk was referring to the D-7 cruiser, a ship he'd never been aboard previously (aside from the Romulan stormbird version from "The Enterprise Incident").
Think it was metaphorical
I took it as “ship-to-ship” close
I was going to write a lengthy retort to most of these points, but I'll simply say this: There's a point where nitpicking no longer feels like it's good natured or objective criticism, but meant to genuinely damage a work and people's enjoyment/perception of that work. This list, and how it's presented, feels like it's solidly in the latter category. Either that, or a class of trolling intended to stir the ire of fans and get clicks.
Her voice genuinely damaged my ears.
Trolling indeed.
Star Trek fans do this exact thing all the time about other Star Trek shows. Why not TrekCulture?
Thank you for stating so well what I am feeling!
These videos anger me. They're so forced. Someone just wanted to make a video
Romulan weed would have probably made the meeting with the Klingons go way more smoothly
Romulans are "Suspicious, Paranoid and Aggressive" - their Ale brings out these exact qualities of a Romulan in each of the People at the Dinner 🤣🤣🤣
I think weed comes from one of the less-sexual Pleasure Planets. But maybe Risa has a flower that both gets you stoned and rock-hard.
Romulus is all about meth-like uppers. "I won't miss a trick I WON'T MISS A TRICK DAMN YOU"
@@archmage_of_the_aether INDEED!
OK, now I want to try some Romulan weed. I'm sure it's blue and requires only one hit.
@@seantlewis376 Jo lan tru!
Yeah, a number of these points are valid, and yet none of this prevents Star Trek 6 from being a satisfying adventure. I admit that I am not crazy about the characters being stuck in the same assignments, but many fans want to see the crew as a family who always stick together. But I am certain that Sulu getting a ship had been mentioned before.
Absolutely not! It's still a fun time all around 😊
Well it is introduced at the beginning of the movie, so it is not that he appears from nowhere when he"s needed the most.
For number one, the crew is not being decommissioned, the ship is.
Yeah, number 1 doesn't any sense. I'm not sure they understand what 'decommissioned' means.
I think it implying they won’t be together anymore. Maybe not an end to their careers, but the norm.
McCoy mentions retirement, Scotty also hints at it, all indications point to their respective space careers coming to an end. Even if Spock and Chekov remain in the service (the only two that seem to beyond the film anyway), its still retirement for the majority of them
Right, some members of the crew went on to do other things. Kirk, Scotty and Chekov were still serving 6 month later when the Enterprise B was commissioned. It was only after this that Scotty retired and headed to the Norpin Colony. Spock served a few more years before retiring and eventually becoming an Ambassador. Not much on the others in canon but it safe to assume the Chekov and Uhura served in other positions for some time
@@k1productions87 In the next Movie, Star Trek Generations, At least Kirk, Scotty and Chekov are still in active duty.
Since you choose to be so nitpicky with that final entry, Uhura also had a different assignment in Star Trek III, which is the in-story explanation for why she is not with the crew for much of the film.
10. Martia probably hid her ability to mimic voices up to that point, and maybe the fight with Kirk made it difficult to change back (“it takes a lot of effort”)
4. I took McCoy and Spock hearing Chang in the torpedo bay as them leaving a channel to the bridge open, so they could quickly let them know the torpedo was ready.
1. I took the amount of damage Entprise-A received in the battle as the reason for the decommissioning (in III the original Enterprise being so badly damaged by Khan seemed to be an excuse to write off the hull, or as the Admiral told Kirk, “there will be no refit.”)
So many of these are potentially really easy to explain or justify. It does sort of feel that whoever wrote this list was really struggling to get a list of 10 things together.
And had it narrated by the girl with the weird tonal shifts in her voice. I’ve heard AI sound more human.
@@BeeWhistler Haha exactly, I had to stop listening!
The funny thing is,... the ones listed here aren't even the worst ones.
1) if Praxis' explosion devastated the atmosphere of Qo'noS,... then why not simply move the Klingon Empire's seat of power to another planet within the Empire?
2) if Praxis was the key energy production facility (i.e. the main Dilithium mine), then why not beef up mining operations elsewhere,... like Rura Penthe?
3) If the Neutral Zone is still a thing,... why the hell is there a Romulan AMBASSADOR?
4) And that is not the only Neutral Zone. They openly state there is one between the Federation and Klingons (which is stupid),... so why is there also a KLINGON ambasador? Its almost as if Nick Meyer not only forgot which empire the Neutral Zone separated from the Federation (even using a star system name near ROMULAN space, not Klingon, in the beginning of Wrath of Khan... oops), but also forgot what a Neutral Zone even WAS.
5) If Praxis was so near to Qo'noS to devastate its atmosphere,... then how did its shockwave reach OUTSIDE of Klingon territory and all the way out to the Excelsior? ... and exactly how long did that take? AND, if it was able to reach that far, that quickly,... then they would have felt it on Earth ffs
6) ... Why is everyone traveling at Impulse Power? First the Excelsior "heading home under Full Impulse Power", and later the Enterprise escorting Kronos One from the Klingon border to Earth... at Impulse speeds? Exactly how many decades away is the conference?
7) the torpedo that struck Kronos One was shot from underneath the Enterprise, right? ... did the Enterprise not have any sensors? It was able to track a radiation surge... but not able to track the path of a torpedo, even with visual records of it? Was it a stealth torpedo or something?
7a) and after the first hit, were the Klingons not WATCHING the Enterprise to see that the second shot didn't come from the torpedo launcher, but from underneath the ship?
7b) where exactly WAS the actual CREW of Kronos One? Did it not have its own bridge with a command and operations staff? Did General Chang just tell them all to take a break while he manned the bridge by himself or something?
8) why the hell is NO ONE trained how to function in zero gravity, while serving on a SPACE SHIP? Especially if you're supposed to be a deadly Klingon warrior? Uhura heard the weapons fire over the comms, so surely the moment a Klingon heard it, their first instinct would and should be to arm themselves. And you can't tell me there aren't disruptors and bat'leths in handy storage lockers throughout the ship.
I could go on
@@k1productions87
1) How easy could it be to evacuate the main world of one of the largest interstellar empires in the beta quadrant? I don't know the population size but it should be in the order of tens of billions. Also I guess there are a lot of important infrastructure within the system which could take decades to rebuild somewhere else, like shipyards and such.
2) I always assumed it provided energy for the Qo'noS system somehow. Beefing up the energy production somewhere else would not help the system an the people living there or the important infrastructure. Unless it was really something so simple as dilithium mining.
3) I'm not sure why can't there be a Romulan ambassador. I know the romulans went totally silent after the Treaty of Algeron but before that there was some level of diplomatic communication.
4) Similarly for Klingon Ambassador.
5) The video also mentioned the explanation how the destruction of Praxis damaged Qo'noS was stupid. This is just another side of it. Faster than light effects of certain events is an established trope in the universe. There are episodes with similar things (destructive waves etc.) affecting ships many ly away from the source virtually instantly after the event.
7) Enterprise sensor logs could have been manipulated. If I remember correctly some of them actually WERE manipulated according to the story.
8) Was there any episode where the artificial gravity malfunctioned before this? I know this is just to keep the production costs down, but in universe you could say that the technology was so reliable that most people didn't need zero-g training. And even if had training, that doesn't make you effective in combat against people who can safely stand on their feat. Was the reaction of the klingon crew underwhelming looking back now? Yes. But remember that Star Trek was never an action packed franchise before this so I think this is as much as one can expect for a close quarters combat scene at that time.
Agreeing! Can't believe, that they were willing to find any bad things in a genius film with nearly no real logical flaws...
Another one for the list. Why was Bones on the Bridge during the battle, shouldn't he have been in sickbay treating the casualties that would have come flooding in? This has always bothered me.
In TMP he comes and goes off the bridge sometimes without reason. Shows up, displays awe, and leaves again.
He has to be there, so Kirk and Spock do not do something silly when unsupervised.
My goodness, I had a long-ass list of complains she didn't mention, and even I forgot about this little nugget. Seriously, Sickbay should have been even more flooded than it was after Khan's sneak attack FFS. Do your JOB, Bones!
The narrative on the "We're to be decommissioned" part is they were to stand down from their posts on the ship having "done our bit for king and country" and the Enterprise-A herself to be decommissioned and placed either into training ship duty, such as how the 1701 dash nothing ended up, or parked up in the mothball fleet, and latterly placed into the fleet museum, with the crew moving on to new things, whether it was retirement (E.G. Scotty in TNG's "Relics"), ambassadorial roles (Spock bothering the romulans & Bones seeing the Enterprise-D off as a very old man), or moving onto new, faster and better-equipped ships, just as Rand & Sulu had done prior to the movie knowing the Enterprise-A was on her last legs as an active duty ship, so, not the people decommissioned, just the vessel that held them...
Well we do know that the Enterprise-A does wind up at the fleet museum as it is seen at the fleet museum in Star Trek: Picard Season 3.
@@BrennaUrbangirl But that was only seen about a century later, in the interim there's not really any known canon history of what happened to the -A after decommissioning in TUC, which is why I made educated assumptions that the -A was put on cadet training duty as per its' predecessor (the so-called "boat-load of children" in TWOK) before being fully retired, mothballed and eventually shipped off to the museum... :)
In Star Trek: Picard, there was a plaque stating that (after the events of ST VI), Uhura became Captain of The Star-Gazer which decades later became Picard's first Command.
While this undoubtfully my favorite of the movies, my biggest problem is Kirk having to be reminded that "Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place." If anyone in the galaxy would already know this it'd be Captain Kirk. That's to me the dumbest thing in Undiscovered Country
In fairness, the brute in the prison camp wasn't his type.
I love Star Trek V because as far as I remember that was my first exposure to TOS when I was like 7 or 8 years old in 96.
Come on, I know it’s corny but we’ve been caught in a blizzard still makes me crack up!
I love all the shore leave stuff in that movie!
#6: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Gravity has a constant pull, compressing your body. When the gravity stops, so does the compression. You're sort of like a very inefficient spring at this point, so you will leave your chair... slowly.
The body's mass makes inertia decently hard to overcome. But regardless of how slow they should have been trained how to respond to sudden loss of gravity.
@@radaro.9682 No debate about the training. Still, we should also mention the torpedoes should have caused their own jolts to help them out of their seats, as could decompression due to any hull breaches the ship may have sustained.
I can understand them "drifting" out their chairs. Kronos One was tumbling in space. It was not so much they floated up, as much as the table and chairs, fixed to the deck of the moving ship, had moved away from them. The disruptor floating out of the holster, on the other hand, is just dumb.
I just thought a small secondary explosion could have accelerated the ship's drift, and caused them to leave their seats. Or, more accurately, caused the seats to leave them.
@@adamk4242 Certainly possible. Also, there's no reason to assume that _all_ of the ship's maneuvering thrusters were offline. If only just a couple were still operating (with other's malfunctioning) then the ship could have been nudged around very chaotically.
This is such a great film that I forgot about some of the less amazing aspects of it. Some great points raised here. It's testament to the great bits of the film that this remains a superb title despite the janky moments!
How could Bones be unaware of Klingon anatomy when they have been at war for many years?
no kidding. He scanned a Klingon with a tricorder at close range in "Trouble With Tribbles"
@@difficulttolookatpictures That was an augment Klingon.
I guess some real practice is required to perform cirurgy, not only basic anatomy . Or would you allow a Klingon to remove you a tooth just reading the procedure from a book.
@@atzuras If I was 30 seconds from death I would allow the book
@@Raja1938 Yeah, this is McCoy who gives a 20th-century hospital patient a pill and she grows a new kidney, this is the doctor who complains about the barbarism of 20th Century medicine "drilling holes in one's head" for brain surgery - and can't stop massive bleeding in a Klingon "because he doesn't know their anatomy"?
Floating out of the chairs makes sense. Normally, the cushions/springs/whatever are compressed so as to balance the weight of the occupant, exerting what is referred to as the normal force. With the artificial gravity turned off, the compressed elements would relax, propelling the occupants upward.
"I can't believe I kissed you!"
"Must've been your lifelong ambition!"
The universal translator sequence was the most dumb. If they didn't want the use of it exposed, and Uhura didn't know that language, she could have asked the computer to translate her response into klingon, then display it on screen in the form of phonetic English sounds for her to read back aloud.
Absolutely! I guess the writers wanted to insert comedy relief so they had everybody grab books (where'd they come from? Does the ship have a museum on board?) and figure out Klingonese.
Apparently Nichelle Nicholls pointed that out, and she suggested other options, but she was overridden
The Nomad probe zapped out her language experience. Sad!
@@dw7704 Blu-ey :)
@@sside8 It probably did. It was big enough.
On the topic of who beamed Burke and Samno to and from the ship, I think it was pretty clear that those two and Valeris weren't the only two conspirators on the Enterprise. The moment that springs to mind is when the announcement is made to take a statement in sickbay, and two... waiters, I guess? look at each other in shock when they hear the names of Burke and Samno. I took that to mean that they were among the people in on it and thus thought those two were dead. Thus, it's not a stretch to think that a transporter tech was also part of the team.
I always assumed they were beamed by the bird of prey
@@kenwynn3871 That's possible. I've always been a little fuzzy on the protocols for ship-to-ship beaming. Like, when the Klingons beamed to and from the Enterprise, it was the Enterprise that initiated it. It seems logical that it can work either way, the two ships would just need to coordinate. And in this case I'm sure who did what was very meticulously planned.
@ReticentDuet they used the klingon transporter effect for their beaming, so I assumed the BoP was the initiator. Beam them from Enterprise pad, to BoP, to Klingon pad, and then the reverse aftwrward
@@kenwynn3871 Ah, nice, I didn't notice that! Great catch!
Well this was one of my favorite Star Trek movies and now I feel dumb. Nicely done trek culture nicely done.
Don’t let them ruin it for you. A lot of these were unnecessarily picky.
@@BeeWhistler they didn’t I’ll still rewatch it and enjoy it! Maybe a little picky, but I enjoyed the video.
Still my favorite. Some of them were intentionally obtuse. Martia obviously became kirk bc she knew she was a witness and would be killed.
#11 would be what the Romulans had to gain from all this. We learn the Romulan ambassador is involved in the conspiracy but no explanation is ever given as to why. Did the Romulans know and just kept quiet and secretly have the ambassador help so they could sit back, watch the fireworks and then swoop in and conquer what's left? Did the ambassador stumble on the plot and agreed to help however he can in exchange for a piece of the action? It's a pretty big plot hole you can fly an prototype bird of prey through
Nothing dumb, just this review. 🎉
Agreed 💯.
Thank you
I conker never heard them say gravity boobs lol 5:59
But i would agree
@@Starbase-Sci-fi-One you got it 😂
I would argue that #1 is a bit dumb, but the beauty of the sentiment outweighs it. As a sendoff for the vast majority of the original crew (with Generations stretching it a bit), it's very moving.
Number 10: the chains on the feet give it away.
The uniform point can be explained by the psychological impact it would have on the UFP seeing two long serving and decorated officers on trail and then in the prisoners in Rua P'Nthea.
EDIT: spelling
Interesting. I had thought that the reason why Martia didn't shift out of Kirk's form when they were captured was that she had probably thought that she could have had persuaded them in to possibly shooting Kirk during their confusion as to who was the accurate person that they were after.
I also thought she was trying to replace him, that she knew there'd be no witnesses.
She said earlier that it takes a lot of effort. That was the in canon script reason they provided for us as to why she shouldn't change back. She'd already changed just not that long ago so it was more effort than she could manage to change back suddenly.
Sulu's opening log entry: "We're headed home under full impulse power". Great, now how long would that be from near the Klingon Neutral Zone to Earth at sublight? How many thousands of years?
Honestly, the DUMBEST things in this movie (that you missed) are the implications that 1. Starfleet only exists as a military unit intended to counter the Klingon Empire, and that 2. With the dissolution of the Klingon Empire, Starfleet would be disbanded as an organization, as if there are no other threats.
This is all laid out in the opening board room scene, and it's utterly ridiculous. Starfleet is NOT a military, and it certainly doesn't exist only to counter the Klingons!! Plus, even if it was, the Romulans are still out there - not to mention plenty of other folks they haven't even met yet!
Also, the idea that Kirk would actively want to see the genocide of an entire race (in the "Let them die!" scene) was hideously insulting towards the character of Captain Kirk. Honestly, that's the most offensive thing to me in this movie!
Possible explainations.
The romulan ale was brought on board to be used to cause an incident that would have ended the possible peace summit and kirk be retired in shame. When that didn't happen, the assassination was the fallback plan.
The person doing the beaming back from the klingon ship could be the same mysterious person that restored gravity who was also the person that was disguised as a klingon to assassinate the chancelors daughter since she decided to carry on with the peace summit.
The changling was flat-out stupid and trusted a CO.
The oxygen is depleted because Kronos doesnt have natural oxygen production like trees or algae. It's all done with air purifying towers and the polution from the moon being destroyed will permanently damage the machines and they wont be able to keep up with repairs/replacements. They also are a war driven society as has been mentioned in Star Trek Enterprise so environmental protection was never a thing and air purifying machines was a necessity build.
The patch..they could explain that its a unique feature of Kirks uniform since he has yo-yoed so many times to admiral and back to captain. They can even explain its a mark of shame for falling from the admiral position. The better question is how did kirk not get affected by a patch that can signal 2 sectors away!
Yes they are space idiots that floated from their chairs and lost their guns from a secure holster. There is a noticable difference from having gravity to just not having it affect you. Small planes are great to experience it and at first you'll react irradict and that can make you shift but not randomly float away.
The entire gas homing torpedo was stupid. I'd tie this into them broadcasting the taunts and say Channg was being a gloating fool and while cloaked he should have been running silent and his loud mouth gave them away and kirj was able to track the signal to where they are. But going with the gas, you could say they wanted spok and bones to know that the bastered was still talking and not getting serious about destroying them so they had time.
They had to bump up Nichelle's skills because she was vital in TOS to the point of Martin Luther King Jr told her she must stay on the show and also she earned some improvement in her stats. That said, she shouldn't have needed to flip through pages of a language book to piece together a reply. She should have been able to say something back farely fluently.
With the planets security I'd say it was more planet based defenses and any ship that dropped off was either sent away to not draw attention to the planet or the fact there was 3 different ships from 3 different enemies. Instead i feel there would have been a neutral ship that was modified to be a very strong defensive ship carry all parties.
It would have been better if they all were called back to be the emissaries since they all were highly decorated and they brought the Enterprise out of moth balls to be a symbol (sad one at that) that the old ways of war is over and the time for peace is being made between old enemies.
Good lord, the nitpicking here is beyond obnoxious. If so many of your questions start with "But why didn't...?", you really need to learn how to just relax and enjoy something. I enjoy this channel for its more positive attitude, so videos like this just deeply grate on me.
Btw, Romulan Ale was I think already Illegal at the time, so she knowing that a supply is on board and suggesting to use it is breaking the law and she offers the ale to her captain/ superior officer for an official diplomatic dinner. That's definetly NOT officer thinking. She shold destroy it rather than suggesting to use it...
The real reason behind the convenience of the gaseous anomaly equipment used to destroy Chang's ship was due to a scene re-write. The setup at the start of the movie of the Excelsior cataloguing gaseous anomalies was because the early drafts of the script had SULU coming to the conclusion that was ultimately given to Spock, and it was the EXCELSIOR that installed its equipment in a torpedo that found the BoP. But certain people (cough, SHATNER, cough cough) didn't like the idea of the Excelsior being the hero ship. So for the sake of expediency, and not having to reshoot other scenes, the lines were given to the Enterprise crew instead. Thus feeding the Takei-Shatner feud (be it one-way or not), which must have made Sulu's final line to Kirk a particularly bitter pill to swallow....
In this case, Shatner was right. Better to have the Enterprise do it for their last movie.
The mistake was not greenlighting a series with Sulu as captain...
Sulu's promotion to Captain is not inexplicable. In a line, that made it into the novelization for the Wrath of Khan but was omitted from the movie, it's mentioned that Sulu was to become Captain of the Excelsior way back then and that he had been recommended for the post by Kirk when he was still an Admiral.
Star Trek VI has the only time a phaser is able to do a slicing type action vs. a stun-or-disintegration type action everywhere else in canon.
Unpopular opinion, but the last few times I've watched Star Trek 5, I've honestly really enjoyed it.
You HAVE ??? Sorry,if you enjoyed this film,I'm happy for you. At the end of the day that's what counts-YOUR JOY of a film. Live Long and Prosper
The plot works for me. Give me old fashioned space adventures and not popular franchises
Not unpopular at all. I've never hated Star Trek 5. By the time I realized most of its problems, I'd already enjoyed it since I was a kid. It was, in fact, the first Star Trek film I saw in the theater :P
@@k1productions87 All that counts is that YOU enjoy this film,not others,just your self.
@@kerry-j4m I wish all the people who bitch about JJ Abrams, Discovery and Picard felt that way too.
Here’s the thing: when a ship is decommissioned, that doesn’t mean it’s headed for the scrapyard, it just means it’s no longer on active duty. The original Enterprise would have been decommissioned in order to do the 18-month refit, then the plan would be to recommission it with Decker as CO.
Seems nonsensical to decommission a relatively new ship, though, even if the purpose was to refit it.
This movie isn't perfect, but I would quibble with #6: It was established during the mind meld that there was a conspiracy between Chang and Cartwright, thus probably a Klingon agent acting on board the ship to help the assassins.
Also #2, I could be wrong, but the "constant as the northern star" quote is actually the Federation president, not Chang.
As to #2, no, it's Chang who says it, quoting Shakespeare like he did earlier in the film, at the dinner scene.
I had heard that it was supposed to be captain Sulu and crew that came up with the homing torpedo idea, but Shatner stepped in and said it should be Kirk and crew that saves the Enterprise.
Nonsense.
I've heard this too, but it always sounded like something George Takei cooked up to grind his axe. Nick Meyer and his friend Flynn wrote this script, and Meyer isn't one that is easily talked into things. He even made Nimoy mad when he didn't do everything he (Nimoy) wanted in the story. Nimoy even quipped in his book "Nick Meyer carefully listened to all our suggestions, then ignored them."
@@tyranusfan Nick Myer (I worked @ Paramount Studio's, under Sherry Lansing tutelage, it was she who used to run thi gs quite fine!) was correct, also and I have boxes of old memo's from 1990 and 91 on this) that back up Nicolas Myers directives and George is not being truthful in his claims now all these years later years, and It seems he still was upset his LINES CUT from TWOKhan in 1982 nearly ten years earlier and will do anything to harp on William Shatner,, forgetting it was HIS show and Movie franchise and he George, as a supporting member of the team, and each person in that process of production has his or her job to do. 👀
He has endlessly whined and complained like a sppilt child so many times against Shatner just in my life since his autobiographical book, To The Stars! in 1993. I have no answers here myself, maybe... but..only questions, from Mr. Spock! Dude, do we leave a crazed Commodores in charge of the ship again or something? LOL 😂 💥
PASS THE Bongo daddies! 💃🏾😎🍭💞🏴
@nnings And he only started his noise when the conventions began - and he got paid to appear. Koenig has often pointed out that they never complained at the time. (Actually, Nichols did complain about her part - to Roddenberry when she quit once and publicly to TV Guide, and her part got a little stronger after. ) One other thing: so far as I know, Mr. Shatner has not said one nasty word about Takei, unless in jest perhaps. Also, I should add, George owes me five dollars.
Sulu's log, before Praxis explodes, states that they are "mapping gaseous anomalies". This is the setup for the torpedo to use that technology later. It makes sense that it was intended that Excelsior fire the torpedo that reveals the Bird of Prey. Later, on the bridge of the Enterprise, while being fired upon, there is a throwaway line to the effect of "aren't we carrying all that equipment to map gaseous anomalies?". No, Enterprise. You're not. Excelsior is.
Here's one: Throughout the entire ship, there was only TWO pairs of Gravity Boots?!
Seriously. It should be standard emergency equipment in nearly every locker in every corridor on the ship
Books, where did all these books come from.
Maybe Kirk took Samuel T. Cogley's advice to heart.
Two more ridiculous points:
The Enterprise (a) has NO kitchen! No Starfleet Ship has a KITCHEN!
And no MASS Quarters! Only rooms for one or two.
Yeah. I think you’re overthinking it. You kind find fault with anything if you look hard enough. This is my favorite TOS movie along with wrath of Khan. And I’m sure there are a lot errors in that movie too. Oh well.
These videos are increasingly just unpleasant. This channel used to celebrate Star Trek, but it now seems to just be shitting on everything now. It might be time to retool.
The real question is: after several decades of facing cloaked opponents, why had NOBODY in Starfleet ever thought of tracking their exhaust before? You know they must have had teams dedicated to figuring out how to deal with combat against cloaked ships.
Scotty never wanted to leave the Enterprise, but had to.
He was an engineer through and through. He got into a fistfight brawl with the Klingons when the Klingon said the Enterprise should be hauled away as garbage! Trouble with Tribbles.
Look, I like this channel. But these are severe nit picks by you. I mean come on...some of your reasoning is an over reach. But of all the movies, these are relatively minor
I've seen that Klingon Bird of Prey explosion, somewhere else before.
They reused it in Generations, and other bits from the scene in the finale of Deep Space Nine.
Reused from The Search for Spock with some CGI added on top.
@@atzuras
The Klingon ship from Search for Spock was never destroyed. It went back in time, went into San Francisco Bay, and eventually to the fleet museum.
@toddmiller2855 My bad. I know there was a lot of reuse with that bird of prey but obviously not the blowup part
@@atzuraswell you see one Bird of Prey blow up you've seen them all.
The cooking pot. Normally, the cooking pot would have to dissolve the food in it after the phaser shot. But the food, after being shot on the cooking pot, is distributed on the stovetop.
I have one: Chekov got shoehorned into the "audience surrogate" role in this film. It was his job to ask the obvious questions, such as "why not simply Waporize them?" to have Valeris dramatically shoot the pot in the galley. Trouble is, he was mentioned to be the tactical officer/security chief in The Motion Picture...he should know about weapons fire aboard a starship. It makes him look dumb. (For my money, this would have been an excellent excuse to have someone like Dr. Chapel along for the ride, so that she--a non-bridge officer--could be tasked with asking the questions so that the exposition can flow. Granted, this would have given Walter Koenig even less to do.)
In an environment where zero-G was 1. Once a thing and 2. Could be a thing, there 100% eould be a wee little magnet in that holster, keeping a phaser from flipping away but not impeding a quick-draw.
People give this film a generous amount of leeway due to it 1:Following and being a course-correction for ST:V, 2:Nicholas Meyer gets residual love for Kahn, and 3: It's the the cast farewell. However, everything pointed out here and more is correct. The flaws in this film, not just Trek cannon or lore, but as a film in general are huge. Some qualify as "unbelievably dumb".
For #6, I think it was because of the ship going into a spin. With the gravity disabled, it's likely that the inertial dampeners would be damaged as well, meaning there would be nothing holding them in place as the ship moved around them.
Seem to recall Sulu had expressed a thing for the Excelsior in Star Trek 3, he was experienced but had not been a second officer to my knowledge? Chekov had but had been compromised in Wrath of Khan and his career stalled, Scotty just wanted to be an engineer and was made Captain's rank in Star Trek 3 and Uhura seemed to just want some peace and quiet in her career (sure last one implied that she seconded at the Academy). After such a distinguished career i dare say they got to pick assignments towards the end, and whilst the A was decommissioned they went onto other things.
The last one #1 is the most plausible. I'm nearing retirement age. I've done a lot of things before I went into IT Support. Since being in IT Support, I've been every level, L1, L2, L3, L4 and various random other positions in IT. Currently I've been back to L2 support the past 5 years. I can contribute the most doing what I'm currently doing. Plus I enjoy the work.
Moral of the story, maybe they can all do many things outside of what they are currently doing but because they enjoy their jobs and their coworkers, they want to do what they've been doing all these years.
Point #2 Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski. For those of you who may not know. They played together for 11 seasons. Then they retired together.
List was lame but 2 made sense, there should have been a fleet of security around a conference like that not only in orbit but alerting the people there. How did Kirk and crew just beam in unannounced like that? Especially when there had already been an assassination!
Oh there are even more that weren't even mentioned here
1) if Praxis' explosion devastated the atmosphere of Qo'noS,... then why not simply move the Klingon Empire's seat of power to another planet within the Empire?
2) if Praxis was the key energy production facility (i.e. the main Dilithium mine), then why not beef up mining operations elsewhere,... like Rura Penthe?
3) If the Neutral Zone is still a thing,... why the hell is there a Romulan AMBASSADOR?
4) And that is not the only Neutral Zone. They openly state there is one between the Federation and Klingons (which is stupid),... so why is there also a KLINGON ambasador? Its almost as if Nick Meyer not only forgot which empire the Neutral Zone separated from the Federation (even using a star system name near ROMULAN space, not Klingon, in the beginning of Wrath of Khan... oops), but also forgot what a Neutral Zone even WAS.
5) If Praxis was so near to Qo'noS to devastate its atmosphere,... then how did its shockwave reach OUTSIDE of Klingon territory and all the way out to the Excelsior? ... and exactly how long did that take? AND, if it was able to reach that far, that quickly,... then they would have felt it on Earth ffs
6) ... Why is everyone traveling at Impulse Power? First the Excelsior "heading home under Full Impulse Power", and later the Enterprise escorting Kronos One from the Klingon border to Earth... at Impulse speeds? Exactly how many decades away is the conference?
7) the torpedo that struck Kronos One was shot from underneath the Enterprise, right? ... did the Enterprise not have any sensors? It was able to track a radiation surge... but not able to track the path of a torpedo, even with visual records of it? Was it a stealth torpedo or something?
7a) and after the first hit, were the Klingons not WATCHING the Enterprise to see that the second shot didn't come from the torpedo launcher, but from underneath the ship?
7b) where exactly WAS the actual CREW of Kronos One? Did it not have its own bridge with a command and operations staff? Did General Chang just tell them all to take a break while he manned the bridge by himself or something?
8) why the hell is NO ONE trained how to function in zero gravity, while serving on a SPACE SHIP? Especially if you're supposed to be a deadly Klingon warrior? Uhura heard the weapons fire over the comms, so surely the moment a Klingon heard it, their first instinct would and should be to arm themselves. And you can't tell me there aren't disruptors and bat'leths in handy storage lockers throughout the ship.
I could go on
The dumbest thing is that Valeris knows that a phaser fired onboard Enterprise sets off an audible alarm; Chekov does not know this despite having nominally been in some kind of security role or first officer role since TMP.
Kirk in WoK; "Klingons don't take prisoners."
Kirk in UC; Imprisoned by Klingons.
Well, Kirk was dealing with some lingering racism.
I think, and I have absolutely nothing to bank this up, that if gravity were suddenly set to zero, your natural interaction with your environment (the way your butt interacts with your seat, your feet interacting with the floor, etc.) would quickly cause you to "float", and the more that you tried to stop "floating" the more you would actually separate from your environment.
Knocking a fantastic film entry holds zero validity when more current Trek offerings are questionable minute to minute throughout their entire seasons. TUC’s biggest flaws are pure dilithium next to the overflowing tribble litterbox offered over the last several years.
100% CORRECT!
At 1:23 when fake Kirk says "Kill him! He's the one!", he's inexplicably pointing above real Kirk's head even though they're BOTH STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER. Horrible shot & editing that I noticed the first time in the theatre, and still bugs me to no end that they've never tried to digitally correct it in subsequent releases. Just sloppy.
OR: Martia is pointing up because she’s not used to being as TALL as Kirk! It gave her away to the Klingons.
@@joermnyc Iman being a supermodel, wouldn't surprise me if she was taller than Shatner.
The think you forgot to mention is the whole Valaris (who has graduated top of her class) creating the same sense of anxiety navigating out of space dock as the trainee Saavik. Indeed if you look at the guy in engineering to the right of Scottie during this scene you would think it's the strangest thing ever to have happened.
The biggest nonsense in Trek Vi is not only the dribble about Praxis, but the idea that a so-called warrior race capable of conquering entire star systems and (presumably 100s of worlds) lacks the ability to relocate the population of its own home world, even with a good 40-50 year time frame in which to do it, and so would accept help from one of its biggest enemies, publicly or privately.
Add to that the rest of the points raised here, plus the clear Valeris / Saavik substitution & Spock's mentoring (or does he have a thing for young Vulcan hotties?) and you have the reasons I've always felt this film is one of the weakest of the TOS franchise - second only to Trek V in terms of weakness - and it is only the fact that it came after the unmitigated poop of the latter that has resulted in it being lauded by fans ever since.
It always seemed to me that the script was written in a hurry to satisfy a marketing goal, with elements tossed in to satisfy one perceived audience expectation or another, without regard for either continuity or character consistency. I think the movie works if you allow yourself to be entertained by it without actually questioning anything (which I think is what the producers expected), but otherwise falls apart. As an example, the manual translation scene seems like it was intended to inject "comedic tension", doing so in a rather clumsy way. Similarly, keeping the "old gang" together was a forced attempt to revive the chemistry of the original series - as was similarly attempted in all of the previous movies. In as much as we all want to see all the old gang, that time had obviously already passed as of the first movie. Wrath of Khan sort-of acknowledged that, which I think is one of the reasons it was the best of the bunch.
That was Nick Meyer's MO, pretty much
The only dumb thing about this video is the video itself. You can find such things in even the greatest film(s).
Why does a bloodthirsty Klingon even quote Shakespeare? Shakespeare was a romantic Guy (Big Love, Relationships, Strong Womans). A Poet. Anything Shakespearean would be seen as a weakness by the Klingons.
I always thought it was a bit silly that there were three captains on the Enterprise.
Captain is just a rank, being Captain of a ship is a position. A ship's Captain can actually be any rank.
@@Nomad77ca I always thought it was a bit silly that there were three people with the rank of captain on the Enterprise.
@@wearwolf2500 I'm not sure of the actual number but I know there is more than 1 person with the rank of Captain on an American aircraft carrier, but only 1 "Captain" of the ship. Synonyms can be confusing in the military lol.
I thought this was wild too - Captain Kirk, Captain Spock and Scotty was promoted to Captain as well - of course I understand that you can have more than one rank of Captain on a ship it’s just weird that way though….something we hadn’t seen in Star Trek at that time.
Thank you for showing a scene with the late David McCallum in "Great Escape". Before his role as Dr. Ducky Mallard, he was my favourite in "Man From U.N.C.L.E." and other tv programmes and movies,etc. He was also a musician and conducted 4 albums during those years. Too bad he didn't get to play on "Star Trek".
I think it’s been said enough that the thought wasn’t that they were all retiring however I can understand the confusion if just how it “sounds” but Uhura CLEARLY said she was chairing a seminar meaning she was still working - we can’t take everything at face value - we have to believe some stuff has happened off screen that may not get mentioned in the movie.
"Star Trek VI" is probably the greatest Star Trek movie, but I alwayd thought the digital clock on the Enterprise bridge was pretty dumb.
You missed the non-disposable gravity boots and uniforms, like a starship doesn't have numerous ways of getting rid of or destroying such things.
I thought they were trying to pin it on someone else. They chose poorly but I still thought that was the goal.
Where do you think the replicators get their raw materials? Replicators can't create their items from nothing. They need raw materials from what is fed into them to make whatever is asked of them to replicate. Any waste on the ship goes into their raw material storage where it is broken down and then reconstituted by a type of transporter technology into whatever is needed.
One thing I always found dumb is a comment by Chang (also dumb to give a Klingon an Asian sounding name). Chang says that "the undiscovered country" is peace. In Shakespeare "the undiscovered country" is death. Maybe Chang was just altering the meaning of the words to better fit the situation, but as such a stickler for Shakespeare it comes off as clumsy.
Kang is an Asian name that they've used for a Klingon in the original series. As for the meaning of "the undiscovered country", it's Gorkon that interprets it as "the future". Plus we're talking about the Klingon version of Hamlet.
For a race of proud warriors, peace COULD be a form of death.
Ill forgive all that lazy writing so I can hear General Chang recite more Shakespeare.
With the space battle one, it’s always irked me that the Enterprise never fires back. Even as Scotty’s repeatedly yelling about the shields collapsing, they never fire a shot with the phasers. While the whole conceit is that they can’t tell where the cloaked bird of prey is, you’d think the “expert tactician” that is Kirk would’ve at least tried firing wildly on the off-chance they actually hit something (like they did in “Balance of Terror”). In contrast, Picard actually has the right idea in “Star Trek Nemesis” when the Scimitar knocks them out of warp. He INSTANTLY tells Worf to fire the phasers in a “zero elevation” pattern, knowing that the Scimitar’s just fired at them from right behind them. They then continue this idea of trying to fire either at wherever the Scimitar’s just fired from or where they’ve hit something. Simple! Also, with regards the TOS crew being stuck together all those years, there was a deleted bit of dialogue in the shuttle pod scene early in “The Wrath of Khan”. When Sulu’s saying “Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise…”, it’s clear George Takei’s about to continue speaking. What he’s originally said was that he was that he was soon due to take command of the nearly-completed Excelsior. So, had the events of TWOK and TSFS not occurred, he would’ve replaced Captain Styles and been on the Excelsior a lot sooner.
I think the dumbest thing was during the briefing, "Bill, are we considering mothballing the Stat Fleet". She must have forgotten the Romulans and many other groups are still out there. Flag officers, you gotta love them.
The pink blood. (I know the real-world reason for it. It's still dumb.)
Dr. McCoy's sudden lack of knowledge of Klingon anatomy. He's had experience with them before...this is not his first rodeo. Even intoxicated or tired, he still should have known the basics of their internal layout.
The lines about Klingons' lack of tear ducts (only in the Director's Cut) makes no sense for so many reasons.
Azetbur being named Chancellor in her father's place, when it was established lore that women are not allowed to serve on the Klingon High Council.
Colonel West's paper flipchart (again, only in the Director's Cut).
You doesn't have to take a promotion. The best example for that is Riker who had dozen chances of taking his own command but doesn't want to. The same maybe goes for the crew of the Enterprise. When you're happy where you are, then don't change it. "Promotion at ally costs" is useless and worthless.
The moronic premise of the Klingons (an empire that the writers keep saying can defeat the federation) needing help to evacuate their home world, is just so bad. Same thing with the Romulans (another massive empire that is said to rival the federation) needing help evacuating Romulus and Remus from a supernova. Even dumber is that apparently there was so much time Starfleet enough to build a whole new fleet to do it yet even after apparently the entire empire collapsed and the Romulans need to be groveling refugees? How? Why? I kind of assumed a star empire would, in both cases, span more than ONE or TWO planets.
About Martia: it makes sense if she knew they wanted to take Kirk alive. She wanted to look and sound exactly like Kirk, so they wouldn't kill her as she probably suspected they'd want to eliminate witnesses.
8. I think Spock's line about ozone pollution is referring to Praxis' destruction affecting the Qo'noS atmosphere with a catastrophic chemical reaction converting O2 into ozone, thus eventually depriving the Klingons of their oxygen supply.
Does anyone else want to hear Bre talk more about environmental science?
I do like this channel but I think some of those points are nitpicks, unnecessary ones!
In my opinion number 6 is one of the top 3 movies in the whole franchise!
As prior military I find it completely believable that a group of people that Served together that long all Want to end the same time
I love the movie. That being said, the dumbest thing is actually the torpedo hits on Gorkon’s ship. If the cloaked bird-of-prey is under the Enterprise, it shouldn’t be that hard to figure out from the torpedo trajectories that they couldn’t have originated from the Enterprise’s launchers. The ships are pretty close together, so it should be a
noticeable angle. If forensics experts today can figure out bullet trajectories why can’t they do it in the future?
The conspirators were able to alter Enterprise's computers to show that they had fired the torpedoes. I'd guess they could alter the sensor records of their trajectories as well(?)
I can speak to the ale. A strong drink may loosen a few tongues, but the first thing is that Klingons *prefer* strong drinking, and the second one is that Kirk didn't want to remember half the meeting because of his prejudices. That makes sense, at least.
The moon, meanwhile, was saturated with heavy waste, plus a dramatic explosion of tha magnitude will have literally burned up the air on the Klingon homeworld. (There is no OSHA in the Klingon Empire.) That's what's making the air unbreathable.
"Do they not notice that Kirk has the thing stuck to his shoulder?" No, they didn't. And for a number of years, neither did I. Case dismissed.
The gravity sequence IS wrong, but I will say that transporters can be programmed to work on delay. It's been done.
There is nothing wrong with the torpedo sequence. This is just quibbling.
Obviously, General Chang assured everyone that he would oversee security personally, and they believed him. No one saw anything, because no one was looking for it. So easy.
Sulu's presence as Captain of the Excelsior is not inexplicable. It is explained. He has been vying for Excelsior since the end of Star Trek IV. Clearly, he made it. But if you wanna know why everyone and the Enterprise is decommissioned at once IN-STORY, it's that the Enterprise is and always has been the most prestigious and important ship in Starfleet. The others didn't really wanna keep on, after that. Well, with SOME exception, but still...
No, the REAL error that you painstakingly missed was that the plot doesn't actually make sense. All of this was predicated under the idea that 'Oh no, Starfleet's going to be disarmed because we're at peace with the Klingons!', and that's just dumb. Nobody's disarming anything. It's a big universe with so much stuff in it. The whole idea of this plot was for nothing, because both sides obviously need their guns, just not pointed at each other for obvious reasons.
I never understood why the Klingons treated Shakespeare like it was their own?
It was an idea borrowed from history. There were some Nazis who once tried to appropriate Shakespeare as German. Since he was the greatest playwright in history, he must have been German. Kirk compares them to Hitler in the same scene.
@@difficulttolookatpictures "we need breathing room!"
Also, there were constant cold war counterfactuals about things like "who invented helicopters".
Oh man... Let me introduce you to the idea of Cultural Appropriation, freind-o. Must seem kinda weird when it happens to folks unused to it happening to them.
@witchdoctor1394 lol watever dude.
I always liked that sad face Spock pulls when Kirk is unhappy with his new chair 😀
A couple of things.
1. Why didn't Martia just change into someone that could leave the moon? Unless she was hired to do what she did, as dumb as it was.
2. Why does the Romulan ambassador have anything to do with Federation intelligence briefings?
This video is 'dumb'. This is one of the best Trek movies. The way this video is written is very disrespectful. You wanna show some honesty about 'New' Trek. Im not sure TrekCulture understands good story telling.
Captain Kirk gets tagged as the "Richard Nixon" of Star Trek. Only Nixon can go to China. Kirk gets caught on tape, admitting to a crime: drinking Romulan Ale.. and at the end of the movie, resigns his commission.
I would add some additional things. An explosion of the magnitude we saw on Praxis, which physically threated the Excelsior at who knows how many light years distance, would simply have destroyed Q'onos. Oh, and given that the Excelsior was who knows how many light years away when it happened, it could not possibly have been instantaneously affected. Any effects would have taken years, if not millennia, to have traveled that far.
And also, the peace talks with the Klingons. Given that Q'onos was only gradually going to become uninhabitable, why couldn't the Klingons just gradually evacuate its population and industrial assets to other worlds in their own territory? Why did they have to stand down militarily, why did they need any help dealing with the crisis, and why did the Federation have to give them territory to settle in? None of it makes any sense. Imagine an accidental nuclear explosion irradiating Moscow and forcing its evacuation around 1970. America might have offered to help and that might have led to a lessening of tensions, but I don't think we would have had to let the Muscovites settle in Idaho.
Re: #9, it’s also probably a bad idea to offer Klingons the preferred drink of another of their mortal enemies. Sadly, they obviously wouldn’t have 2309 yet.
Chekov spent most of his life in Starfleet and needs a young whippersnapper to explain to him a phaser cannot be fired without triggering an alarm? And laughs aside, does Valeris need to actually vaporize a pot someone is actively cooking with? Presumably that phaser wasn’t set to stun… And why is a phaser set to kill stored in the kitchen?
The fifth movie reached such epic levels of dumbness that even the points mentioned here are mere pittances by comparison. We were more than willing to forgive Six its flaws.
There are more though....
1) if Praxis' explosion devastated the atmosphere of Qo'noS,... then why not simply move the Klingon Empire's seat of power to another planet within the Empire?
2) if Praxis was the key energy production facility (i.e. the main Dilithium mine), then why not beef up mining operations elsewhere,... like Rura Penthe?
3) If the Neutral Zone is still a thing,... why the hell is there a Romulan AMBASSADOR?
4) And that is not the only Neutral Zone. They openly state there is one between the Federation and Klingons (which is stupid),... so why is there also a KLINGON ambasador? Its almost as if Nick Meyer not only forgot which empire the Neutral Zone separated from the Federation (even using a star system name near ROMULAN space, not Klingon, in the beginning of Wrath of Khan... oops), but also forgot what a Neutral Zone even WAS.
5) If Praxis was so near to Qo'noS to devastate its atmosphere,... then how did its shockwave reach OUTSIDE of Klingon territory and all the way out to the Excelsior? ... and exactly how long did that take? AND, if it was able to reach that far, that quickly,... then they would have felt it on Earth ffs
6) ... Why is everyone traveling at Impulse Power? First the Excelsior "heading home under Full Impulse Power", and later the Enterprise escorting Kronos One from the Klingon border to Earth... at Impulse speeds? Exactly how many decades away is the conference?
7) the torpedo that struck Kronos One was shot from underneath the Enterprise, right? ... did the Enterprise not have any sensors? It was able to track a radiation surge... but not able to track the path of a torpedo, even with visual records of it? Was it a stealth torpedo or something?
7a) and after the first hit, were the Klingons not WATCHING the Enterprise to see that the second shot didn't come from the torpedo launcher, but from underneath the ship?
7b) where exactly WAS the actual CREW of Kronos One? Did it not have its own bridge with a command and operations staff? Did General Chang just tell them all to take a break while he manned the bridge by himself or something?
8) why the hell is NO ONE trained how to function in zero gravity, while serving on a SPACE SHIP? Especially if you're supposed to be a deadly Klingon warrior? Uhura heard the weapons fire over the comms, so surely the moment a Klingon heard it, their first instinct would and should be to arm themselves. And you can't tell me there aren't disruptors and bat'leths in handy storage lockers throughout the ship.
I could go on
I have always felt that Chekov should have been on the Excelsior serving as the first officer.
Good review, but I feel like you missed the biggest mistake - why was McCoy helping Spock with adapting the photon torpedo when the ship was under attack, severely damaged, with injured crewmembers all over the ship who desperately required immediate triage and medical treatment?!?!? I cringe every time I see Spock ask McCoy to help him perform surgery on the torpedo, as if McCoy had nothing else going on. For those who think McCoy wasn't fit enough to treat patients after escaping the prison planet, just remember he was intoxicated and still tried to save Klingons when their ship was attacked. Please amend your video or make a "10 more things..."