Edd Starr Didn't they though when you think,about it? They had a chance to let Jake be different and follow in his father's footsteps which would've been interesting to see. Instaed they chose to repeat the Wesley theme by having him avoid becoming a Starfleet officer once again repeating the whole theme.
mistamichal He became an officer off screen in between the series and Nemesis. In the actual series it was continually implied by plot design he was meant for something more whuchwas concluded and confirmed before the end of the series when hr left with the travelor. The actual series over the course of 7 seasons with the plot and writing never built for him to go into Starfleet. He did it because he was gifted and felt obligated to his parents and Picard and ultimately regretted it. Having a series where the son character actually wanted to go into Starfleet by his own motivation and gradually build,to that over the series is entirely different.
Why are you even talking about Wesley Crusher? There was a reason he was written out of TNG. The character was too much even for the happy feel of TNG. He had to go. In my alternate universe Wesley is assimilated by the Borg and never heard from again.
Elim Garak is the single best secondary character in any Science Fiction show ever... period. He had more depth than most main characters in other shows including other Star Trek shows. The only other character that comes close is Gul Dukat... another DS9 character. This was a great show.
Brain smasher - I put them on almost equal footing but Garak gets the nod only because he was on a lot more episodes than Gul Dukat. I also think because he got a lot more screen time his character was a lot more developed than Dukat. Dukat made great jumps in development between appearances whereas Garak we got to see develop slowly over time.
Whenever Q showed up on the Enterprise, Picard shouted about ethics the whole time and could never get rid of him. When he came to DS9 Sisko punched him in the face and he never showed up again.
@@piotrd.4850 Gyverguy got it right. Q was antagonistic, he enjoyed winding Picard up. Picard tolerated it, due to his belief in the Prime Directive and his standing orders (seeking out new life and learning from and understanding it). Sisko was a good leader to his team, but he wasn't an explorer like Picard, and he lacked the same kind of patience. He saw that Q was hostile, and was playing games, so he had little time for his games. If it came to an all out war, Sisko is the man you want at the helm. Picard would do his best to prevent it, rather than win it. Sisko was more realistic in his approach, he viewed war as inevitable, and then focused his decisions around winning, rather than being reasonable and doing his utmost to prevent it (as Picard would have).
@@piotrd.4850 maybe, but what about the" wormhole Gods " worshipped by the Bajorrans ? Surely such a presumptuous title and dynamic would've piqued his interest in them. Q- "I'll see if you're Worthy of playing on my universe's front lawn. Otherwise, I'll have to pass my Holy Judgement opon you all- and then )) Snap (( you'll be all gone.." PS- John D is awesome as Q.. definitely in my top tier of secondary reoccurring characters.
The best part about Quark's monologue in "Siege of AR-558" is that in a later scene, he realizes that truth about innate savagery also applies to him when Quark has to backshoot a Jem'Hadar soldier and in that scene - there are no words. It's all in Shimerman's eyes.
Yep, coming right after his OTHER great "We would have found another way, we would have negotiated a peace.." speech made it work perfectly too. Quark got two stand-out monologues that episode.
Quark was pretty much my favorite and watching his evolution in the series was the best part, you rarely got that in the other series as they tended to remain pretty static.
@@MyBrainGlows He has 2 different speeches on how evil humans are. One is to sisko in the finale of season 2, and then the episode where Nog gets shot in the final season
I passed on DS9 for years because I though "How can you have Star Trek without a ship or exploration?" and boy was I wrong! I grew up watching TNG and have great memories of that series but DS9 is the better show by far. I would say that the first season could be considered a little slow but man when it gets going this series is AMAZING!
"On Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window at Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. Well, it's easy to be a saint in paradise. But the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there, in the Demilitarized Zone, all problems have not been solved yet. There are no saints, just people; angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive, whether it meets with the Federation approval or not." - Commander Benjamin Sisko
Maquis was very unrealistic. There were hundreds of sparsely populated planets they could have lived on that were not near the Cardasians (space Nazis). To be realistic they should have made the Marquis Mormons whos book told them they had to live there.
@@needparalegal Maquis is extremely realistic.... It's the problem with forced "relocation" at it's core. If you've built your home from scratch on a hostile planet for a generation and carved out a home--- you're not really willing to give that up very easily.
After that magnificent speech, just after Sisko had been admonished by a Starfleet admiral based on earth, paradise in his speech, I wonder why he wasn't more forgiving of the Maquis. I understand his for the uniform sentament with his friend, and eddington really snookered him , but still...
At the time I liked DS9, but also hated how it was crapping all over Gene's vision so soon after his death, like they couldn't wait til he was gone. But now as an adult I fully appreciate how the show covers the same themes and ideals but presents them in a different way. Instead of saying "that's all in our past and we are better people now," it asks questions about it. What would happen if those ideals are tested and pushed to the limit?
DS9's main advantage was that the network basically left it alone to do its own thing. Unlike Voyager which as the flagship show of the Paramount Network ended up being seriously constrained by 'suits'. This allowed the producers and writers on DS9 to have a lot more freedom in how the show was structured and how the stories were told. The result is that while all the Trek shows (minus Discovery) can and are fun overall none of them have managed to push the boundaries or manage to remain as consistently good over time as DS9 has when you look at series overall rather than individual episodes. Enterprises fourth season came close, and it would most likely have passed DS9 in many aspects had they decided to make a fifth season. DS9 however remains the one Trek series that really hasn't aged. Spruce up some of the effects shots, redo some of the battles and there is no reason this series wouldn't work just as well today as it did back in the 90's.
c Byrne in fact dare I say it was way ahead of its time. The way it was wrote and done is a lot more in tune with audiences of today which is why it's stood the test of time it was never much in that time anyway.
I think the real lesson that should be learnt is that network 'suits' should basically hire producers who know what they are doing, then more or less leave them alone unless they are going a bit too far. It's a lesson Paramount, CBS, Lucasfilm and DC seem as of late to be incapable of understanding.
c Byrne yeah it is a mistake they make often, I see it as far back as enterprise, where all the behind the scenes documentaries show huge network interference from people who did not understand the show yet enforced certain ideas into the show because its what the network thought would make a great star trek show but not necessarily what the fans thought would make a great show.
They did the same with Voyager, which should and was intended to be Treks take on Battlestar Galactica. And was forced to be TNG light. Not, I'll add, that Voyager was actually a bad series overall. What is depressing is that both Enterprise and Voyager have more than a few episodes that show what the writers were really capable of doing when left alone.
I'm sure one day it will come. Not because they want a bluray release like TNG, but because they'll be trying to sell their streaming channel with murky 90s versions of DS9 and Voyager. Eventually it will be an embarrassment for them and they'll have to remaster them.
Agreed! I wasn't the biggest fan of DS9 when it came out, probably mostly because it WASN''T TNG. However after recently re-watching the entire DS9 series, I really appreciated the 'darker' themes explored!
We can 100% blame the studio for that one. They didn’t get it through their heads in time that they had been way overcharging for Star Trek on physical media for years, especially in comparison to every other network’s TV series. Charging more than double everyone else’s prices meant they were selling only to the most obsessive or the fan base. I wanted to buy it all but refused to be ripped off for it.
@@garym6315 DS9 looks well enough on modern TVs. I was trying to read the promenade directly last night. It’s not English but the letters are crystal clear on a big enough tv. Also, weyoun was holding an empty container with no baseball card in that episode. I really don’t think the series needs a remaster. Be kinda clunky with all the stock footage scenes reused over and over in battles.
They had books, from the Millennium Trilogy, released during the show's run, to the post series relaunch books. Some mixed bags there, but very good ones too.
Not To toot a video games horn But. STO-Star track online Has Been developing a session of DS9 story's + most of, thee original cast voicing there respective charterers. That should give foregrounds, to make a movie some how.
In The Pale Moonlight was so good. DS9 is by far my favorite too "I lied. I cheated...I'm an accessory to murder...Because I can live with it...I can live with it! ...Computer, delete that entire personal log" If this was in HD, I would buy it. "Brag all you want, but don't get between me, and the blood wine!"
Picard would never have done what Sisko had to do. Picard was too caught up in Starfleet regulations. And so if Picard had been in charge at DS9 the Romulans would never have joined the Federation and the Klingons in the war against the Dominion. And Picard would never have even talked to someone like Garak.
@@orcman8296 True, but I think if Picard was the commander of DS9 the war would have never happened, as Picard is a master Diplomat and would have found a way to find common ground to satisfy both parties. So no war = no need to trick Romulus in to war.
My favourite TV show of all time. I think it's difficult to go into DS9 cold, it's very much a sequel/companion to TNG and assumes knowledge of the universe established there. It also picks up some storylines from that show.
LeftHandedGuitarist I agree. Without TNG I wouldn't have gotten into DS9. Definitely a companion series. Beyond Spock I wasn't much into 70's Star Trek.
Every time a new Trek show tries to show how cool it is with diversity and strong female leads it makes me actually sad because DS9 had both a really diverse cast full of great female characters and it never once smelled it's own farts over the fact. Kira's one of my favorite characters in the franchise and a complete badass and not once had to go into a speech about how she could be tough because she was a woman or anything. When race does come up as an issue, it's extremely well done too: Far Beyond the Stars is just great. I did get a laugh that Sisko had a problem with historical revisionism in video games in the holodeck heist episode, too, lol.
Deep Space Nine is by far my favourite Star Trek series. All it took was In the Pale Moonlight to convince me of that. My favourite characters were Elim Garak, Odo, and Quark, and Benjamin Sisko is my favourite Star Trek captain.
Back in the 90s, no one made that claim. Today people act like it is tho, i tend to agree i just find it funny that for 20 years people ignored it and now scream its praise. Where were yall back then when i had to go to war with people over it?
@@jonathansoko1085 I appreciate it more now than I did then. I cannot even watch 99% of todays TV due to plot holes and bad writing. I didn't watch TV in the 90s, I was busy racking up student debt in a rigged system.
@@jonathansoko1085 TNG cast a long shadow, as someone who watched most of TNG and all of DS9 in the original run, DS9 was a challenging series and required a knowledge of Trek and appreciation of complex writing. The show was promoted poorly and the first season was under more scrunity as TNG was huge at the time. It got really good from season 2-5 and even better but the serialized format always made me feel like I was missing something during the Dominion war. It also had an awful ending, I really wish the series had a more satisfying finale.
@@chonconnor6144 TNG casts a "long shadow" if you are the type of person that runs on nostalgia alone. Theres alot of people like you, you remember how you felt and your life when you first watched it, so anything else you deem not as good because of your personal feelings. We both know im right
Any DS9 fan's should back the "What we left behind" Documentary It will have HD DS9 scenes and it the best way to vote for the possibility of full DS9 blurays (besides buying other Trek blurays of course)
It was my first (and only) crowdfunding type product I ever purchased- I can't wait for it to be complete and arrive on DVD or digital download. I really wish I was physically able to have purchased some of those perks where you had dinner with the cast, I totally would have spent $1000 on that.
That would be amazing, I had heard much of it was lost. But I think the increase in CGI would make upgrading to HD much more expensive and time consuming than TNG. Imagine all those space battles.
Gene Roddenberry (hope I spelled it right) probably wouldn't have liked the series all that much; hell Majel Roddenberry (Genes Widow) had said, more then once, that Gene would have despised the Dominion war arc. You forgot the character Morn/Mourn, a background character seen mainly in the 1st few seasons, but showed up in later ones once or twice. The joke/conceit with that character was that you never heard him say one word throughout the series entire run, but off camera the characters would say that he'd "never shut up", or just as you'd see him FINALLY talk, it would switch to another scene/set of characters doing something else. It was a great bit, & the show did it successfully for the entire run.
Majel's thoughts on the war Arc is puzzling. I know Gene didn't want war in his creation, and only focus on Humanities potential for good. However we are not in a paradise golden age at the moment. The best way i see us getting there is to explore the aggressive nature within us, so we can better learn from these events. brushing humanities blood thrust under the rug and just stating that the future is perfect is not the best approach. The show is about the Human condition, and id say war falls high on the list.
@@Mneros The problem is that Star Trek was always about showing humans in a brighter future, DS9 didn't really do that, it more or less showed humans of today but in a future setting which isn't realistic at all because technological advancement changes how people think so much of what we do today we couldn't with that level of tech as it would likely wipe out the human race, in fact I suspect the human race would never get to the stage of Star Trek with today way of thinking and that is the main flaw of DS9. It was good entertainment but it went too far from what Star Trek was all about and Star Trek did start to go into decline around that time and the irony is, today we really could do with a Star Trek that paints a bright future like TOS and TNG did with all the things that are going on today as people are losing hope.
@@DazedSpy2 If you say so but it's easy to see how the depiction of humans in DS9 was more in line with humans of the time when it was made and all because it's more relatable to us, it's much easier to sell something that is more relatable to the audience that they are selling something to them something that is far in the future that is so different from us. Don't get me wrong, I liked DS9 but it was around then where Star Trek started to go downhill and hasn't recovered from it since, it basically became too action focused which isn't what Star Trek was all about and the moment it went like that, it was no different from other sci-fi shows with a lot of things blowing up and special effects, it's the same mistakes they do with the new Star Treks today. In any case, it's highly unlikely that Star Trek will recover because it's lost its vision the moment Gene died, other took over and pushed it to be more action focused and it went downhill ever since.
You're right. DS9 was written like a well...a story. It had a consistent arc, plot, character development, with real motivations, consequences, and not always a happy ending. It was... as the Dr. Bashir said in the first episode... "I came to experience real frontier life."
I read somewhere that the Dr. Bashir character was originally intended to be sort of an adult version of Wesley Crusher. Brilliant but naive. But the writers realized that such a character had no place on this show and fleshed him out a bit to make him more edgy. I'm glad they did. He was really annoying at first.
This show is a masterpiece, the depth of the characters, the story arcs, the intertwining of multiple plots and the cameos of characters from times past were all very well done. Favourite episodes were in the pale moonlight and once more unto the breach.
Robert Smith i was invested in every series of Trek stil am. With exception of the abomination STD. It would take drastic changes to make me want to invest the time and money to watch it.
For me, DS9 was the height of Star Trek. The writing was superb and the characters likable. Voyager seemed more cardboard and Enterprise was just going through the motions. Both Voyager and Enterprise seemed to represent a down sliding in the quality of Star Trek to me. Anything after Enterprise (the Reboot and Discovery) doesn't even count as BEING Star Trek. By that point, it had become unrecognizable to me.
I basically feel the same. DS9 is my fave, then TNG. I prefer Voyager to Enterprise, and both to either the new movies or STD. Nothing after 2005 is Star Trek to me. Even when Berman/Braga-era Trek became largely disposable and was at its absolute low point (Voyager S6-7 to ENT S1-2), it at least still had an idea of what Star Trek is (and isn't) and largely got the tone right.
Oh I don't know, as much as I like DS9 and it's the second best Trek behind TNG for me, I always felt that DS9 was trying to show humans of today with the same kind of problems humans have now and with the same kind of reaction that humans would do. I always felt that wasn't realistic for a future setting, I also felt it got darker and could be what led to what Star Trek is like now. But don't get me wrong, DS9 was great but Star Trek was always about a bright future for the human race and DS9 changed that, also viewing figures started to go downhill around that time. Anyway, the reason why I think many like DS9 is because it's a lot more relatable to today humans but there is the problem already, Star Trek was always about showing a much more enlighten human race not today humans and that for me was it's major flaw, not to mention all the religion talk, I mean really, the future and religion doesn't mix lol. In any case, both TNG and DS9 ware the best of Star Trek but it all went downhill mid to late 90's and it's been in the dumps every since.
@@paul1979uk2000 I disagree completely. I personally liked both Voyager and Enterprise. They weren't perfect but they were intriguing shows. Enterprise could've been better but it was canceled just as it was really starting to shine. DS9 was different from other Star Trek series because most of these characters had far more traumatic life experiences than other Trek characters. Borg massacre survivors, Cardassian Occupation survivors, ex-Obsidian Order members, being the only known member of your species, the experiences of several different lifetimes, etc. These characters didn't act as "evolved" as in other Trek series because their "bright futures" weren't paradise. The religious aspect was actually really genius because it reflects on how battered people cling to religion as a sign of hope to overcome their struggles. Bajorans weren't as advanced as Humans so they still clung to somewhat outdated religious beliefs. But then again, just because people live in the 24th century doesn't mean that they'll disregard their religion. Look at the Klingons for example. They were just as, if not more religious than the Bajorans
DS9 doesn't get enough props for it's production design. It often looks and feels way, way more cinematic than the other Trek shows. When you try to watch Voyager (I have given up on that several times) it's like this flat, cheap crap. Everything on DS9 looks like it's got large scope and is so much more alive, plus the Cardassian station allows for cool lighting and visually interesting rooms. The Promenade feels both sizable and always alive, for example.
Am rewatching this now. Quite interesting to see how much Rom's character changed from the first episodes to later in the serious, including even the voice. A stark difference.
Agreed, when you finally see him die, fatally betrayed by Kai Winn , it's both satisfying and visceral to see a deluded , murderous tyrant get his due by the hand of another deluded, power-hungry tyrant.. Poetry. Top ten death scenes of all time.
I always found the show to be very engaging. Deep Space Nine once actually the first Star Trek series I watched on TV. Benjamin Sisko was also the most well-rounded commanding officer in all of Star Trek. #SISKO4LIFE!😎
DS9 started airing in my country when I just started college so I only could watch a few episodes. Then I finished the first season online a few months ago. I'm somehow glad I'm now an adult before watching it whole: it's going to be a quite different experience than have watched it 15 years ago.
Definitely, Liberty. My absolute FAVORITE moment in the entire show has to be at the end of It's Only a Paper Moon where Nog lives in the holosuite with Vic after losing his leg. He has this conversation at the end and it breaks my heart. Nog, "Don't you get it? I can't go out there!" Vic, "Why not?" Nog, "Because I'm scared, alright! I'm scared. When the war began...I wasn't happy or anything. But I was eager. I wanted to prove myself. I wanted to see if I had what it took to be a soldier. I saw a lot of combat. I saw a lot of people get hurt; I saw a lot of people die....but I didn't think anything was going to happen to me. Then suddenly Doctor Bashir is telling me he has to cut my leg off. I couldn't believe it....I still can't believe it. If I can get shot, if I can lose my leg then anything could happen to me Vic. I could die tomorrow! I don't know if I'm ready to face that. If I stay here then at least I know what the future is going to be like." Vic, "If you stay here, you'll die. Not all at once, but little by little. Eventually you'll become as hollow as I am." Nog, "You don't seem hollow to me." Vic, "Compared to you I'm as hollow as a snare drum." I'm a huge history buff, and especially things like WW1/2. This is a story I've heard time and time again and seeing it portrayed so well in Star Trek with such an innocent likable character destroyed me. It's the only time I actually teared up aside from The Visitor. I fucking love DS9.
Here here, and thank you for mentioning specific episodes, like “Duet”, “Far Beyond the Stars” and “”Pale Moonlight” to name a few. I also really appreciated the relationship between Captain Sisko and his son Jake, the complex nature of Sisko and Kira's friendship, and the interactions between Garak and Odo, as well as Garak and Bashir. There was so much to like about DS9, so much meat on those bones.
I was very late to the DS9 party (just watched it for the first time this year despite being a massive trek fan) and have to say there is a lot more to it than I thought when it was first released. Love it immensely and made recuperation from a serious accident pass quickly,
Fabulous, Thank you. One of my favourite shows and you’ve pushed my nostalgia button As a slightly lonely nerd, the friendship between Bashir and O’Brien was a big part of the show for me It actually affected me , when I read years later, that the actors didn’t get along
Han Lockhart Agreed, the problem with Dukat is he should have died in season 6 or at least gone to prison and never seen again. I love the multi part series finally except when we get to the Dukat Kia Winn plot that makes me cringe.
I couldn't get in to DS9 in the 90's. Mostly because I only got to see it sporadically and the big/long story arcs were lost on me. And then Man created Netflix! I recently binge watched the entire series and got myself a whole new appreciation for the show. My heart will always belong to TOS, but the rest of me belongs to DS9. It's a timeless, incredibly deep, often dark, complex, brilliantly written, superbly acted, character and relationship driven show, and, in my humble opinion, is unmatched in the Sci-fi Universe. I'm just blown away by it.
OK .. you probably won't read this, but I REALLY enjoy your reviews. You look beyond the surface (when applicable) and express a clear, intelligent, thoughtful review of things you like, and a scathing indictment of those you done. I appreciate your reviews, Mr. Cullen. Thank you.
Great analysis. I also liked the Jake and Nog friendship that Sisko initially had a prejudice on because of Ferenghi culture but later deciding to support Nog training for Starfleet. Another demonstration on the depth of characters. Odo’s relationship with Quark was also amusing too to help add humour to the show
DS9 and the story plot was so well written and flawlessly executed. If the cast would have been TNG on DS9...it would have been the greatest SCI show of all time. DS9 as it stood was a giant among giants.
Pertsonally I never got past the fact that I didn't like its tone or the characters compared to the other Star Treks. I prefer TNG, TOS, Enterprise, and Voyager to it but unlike DS9 purists tend towards me I actually respect the opinion of people who like this version of Star Trek.
Picard and his crew were, in my opinion, very naive. Sitting aboard their luxury liner of a starship they actually looked down on other races that didn't embrace Federation values. The series got a little more edgy with the addition of the Borg and the Cardassians, but it never really moved beyond the happy shiny people holding hands feel of the show.
DS9 was seriously underrated, I liked the more ruthless Realpolitik direction the show took from the beautifully idealistic Next Generation, they are a great compliment to each other.
The funny thing this Andrew Robinson and Marc Alaimo are such amazing actors I could honestly see them switching roles. Their characters are so similar in backstory, but with just a few small forks in their roads that produced such radically different outcomes. Amazing, amazing writing and acting.
DS9 is not only my favorite star trek serie but it's my favorite sci fi show of all time. I lost count of the number of times I've watch the series through. Excellent video!
Agree completely. When DS9 first aired I checked out in the middle of season one for most of the reasons you described. I eventually started watching it in syndication and fell in love with it. The Dominion War was easily the most ambitious thing a Star Trek series ever did.
Gul Dukat made this show for me, his spats with Garak, Sisko and Keira are just amazing. Every time I go back to watch this I always watch the episodes with Dukat because he was a truly despicable villain who just couldn’t understand his own evil. In The Pale Moon Light is by far one of the most amazing episodes of television I have ever seen, it’s a must see for anyone getting into this series.
I'm rewatching DS9 season 6 and 7 right now, again, for the the umpteenth time. It's my all-time favorite Star Trek series and one of the best series ever on TV for all the reasons you've listed.
I seriously love this show. I think DS9 is the best installment in the Star Trek franchise, and it occupies such a special place in my life, and my heart. The first time I watched it was partway through the third season, and my wife and I were newly married, new parents in our first home together - half of a tiny duplex. We didn’t have much, but we had each other, and the future, and our dreams. I used to watch it sitting in a rocking chair with my infant son cradled in my arms. I loved it. The second time I watched it was to share it with my son who had grown into a teen. I had introduced him to SciFi gradually over the years...old Flash Gordon serials on DVDs...”Tom Corbett : Space Cadet” radio programs...TOS...Star Wars...finally DS9. We watched it on DVD on the floor of his room in front of a large screen tv. He loved it, and I loved him loving it with me. Now, my son is twenty-one years old. My wife just told me she wants a divorce. She wants to sell our home, the house where our kids grew up. We lost our dreams, our hopes, and each other. The only thing I have left is the past. I love DS9, but ironically like so much else, it is too painful to enjoy anymore because of how beautiful are its associations in my mind. The closest I can come to enjoying it again is to watch appreciations of it like this one, the comments by fans, and to enjoy it distantly through their love.
I always said DS9 is the best Star Trek show (and "In the pale moonlight" the best Star Trek episode) But you explained it in this video much better than I ever could.
Sisko is my favorite captain. His interactions with Jake made him seem more real like a military man who is also trying to be a father. He has ideals but he is also a realist Dukat is quite simply the best trek villain. He is a contemptible bigot who also has a ton of charm. You kind of root for him but also hate him.
I am near tears with this PERFECT analysis of what remains, imo, the single best television serial of all time. I was a Trekkie until 1995 when this show swallowed me whole. My close friend, John, begged me to give it a chance which I finally did, under protest of what I considered an unnecessary addition to the Trek Canon. It stunned me how deep it was. It's the closest thing I found to a life Bible to date.
I loved ds9 and I loved enterprise, why?, probably be cause both series are full of imperfect characters and to me it made them more relatable than tng or voyager where characters were pretty much perfect and lived in utopia.
I think the Characters in Voyager could be flawed also. Belana was Flawed. Tom Paris was defintely flawed. The Doctor,not even a living Being was flawed. Both Kess and later Seven of Nine were both Flawed.
I can't remember the title, but I think my favorite episode is probably the one where one of dukat's subordinates pretends to be him to stand trial for his crimes during the war... the episode had a lot of heart, even if it was a bit blunt in places, and it helped flesh out Kira's character arc by making her question her hatred of the Cardassians
Edit: I wrote this before watching. Lifelong Trek fan and I’m sad to say I bought into the DS9 bashing when the show was airing. I watched a few episodes in season 1 but that was it. I always heard rumblings of how it was over the years. Took me 20 years but finally in 2014 I binge watched the entire series over about a 3 month span. Wow. I was absolutely blown away. Yes first season is a little slow and even some of second but it picks up quickly. And when the Dominion stuff starts “shut up and take my money”. That 3 months was such an emotional journey. I love TNG but was never impacted nor where as close as DS9. The arc of the Gul Ducot character alone is worth the watch. I actually felt sorry for him in the end. Just so many things right with the series. This is the “adult” series of Trek. The story telling is phenomenal. No weak main characters and each of them seem to get their proper storylines. The episode where Sisko looks at the camera the whole time while explaining why he killed the Romulan to get them into the war. I’m rambling now but holy shit was that a morally complex exercise. Same with Eddington. Trek has never been that real or gritty before and never will again.
That's actually one of the reason why he's my least favorite captain. Launching a chemical weapon on a civilian target just to capture one man....I don't even know how it's possible that he survive the court marshal at all?
Dr Galactose Sisko got off because of the tit for tat rule. Maquis poisons planet A, making it inhabitable for the Cardassians. Sisko returns the balance of power by making a Maquis planet inhabitable for humans. Status quo maintained for the most part.
You mean "uninhabitable", right? Even then......does that justified the use of chemical weapon? on a CIVILIAN target? Did anyone take into account how unpredictable the chemical weapons are, and how the event, with only small change, like wind change, or the colonist are a little too far away from evacuation transport, or simply the number of the transport aren't enough to carry enough people, or the weapon were a little bit more effective than they think it would be due to terrain, can easily turn into a massacre? I'm sorry, but as someone whose profession make me know too well what could even the most basic form of NCB weapon can cause, there's no way to justified it, even less so against a civilian.
I don't agree with you on much, but you're 100% spot-on here. I think DS9 was not only the best Trek, but one of the greatest television dramas of the 20th Century.
Just like TNG, all the special effects were done in 480. So, Paramount would need to re-do them like they did with TNG. DS9 had more complex effects especially with the Dominion Battles. Apparently, the sales of the TNG Blu-Ray's weren't good enough to justify the cost. Sad.
@@dtown-fi5xs The other problem is that DS9 had a lot more action then TOS and TNG and that would likely make it a lot more expensive to remaster, I suspect it will happen at some point but I doubt it will any time soon. now if TOS and TNG remaster was a great sales success for them, DS9 likely would of got remasters now but as it is, I doubt they think it's worth doing as it's likely going to be a lot more expensive to do DS9 compared to TOS and TNG combined.
DS9 is easily my favourite Star Trek series, great characters, great long running story, the Dominion War plot was done very well, so much to love about that series. In the Pale Moonlight is one of best Trek episodes ever.
Agree 💯%‼️ DS9 is my favorite Star Trek show by far. I was glad you mentioned "The Visitor", as that episode effected me as strongly as any TV episode has, particularly when I first saw it. I suppose it was because I could relate to it in a certain way that was (and still is) meaningful to me. It resonates powerfully with me, I think because my own Father was rarely ever around even though I strongly desired a stronger relationship with him. I could empathize with Jake Sisko in that episode in a way I've rarely found since. It still brings a tear to my eye and chokes me up, even now to some extent after I've seen it several times. My own Father isn't a bad person, but he has been negligent and absent as a parent, and that loss still resonates to this day. I could understand Jake's choice to give his younger self the Father he'd lost, even at the sacrifice of his own life. He had hope for his younger self to have a better and more fulfilling life with his Father's presence and guidance. Something I can easily imagine potentially being true in my own life if such a choice would ever be presented. The characters may have been fictional, but they were thoroughly relatable.
It’s crazy that this video came across my feed today because I’m rewatching DS9 at the moment. I’ve said for years that DS9 is the best Star Trek series. So many amazing characters.
DS9 is amazing. I often wrestle between it and TNG as my favorite Trek show. I feel that DS9 is superior in most ways, but it doesn't have that Patrick Stewart tour de force that TNG has, and in my mind that slightly tilts the favor. Still, DS9 was groundbreaking television for its time, and its influence in later shows is evident. Also, probably the biggest character transformation in the series is Damar. Really amazing that he went from Gul Dukat's yesman to being a revolutionary hero.
Well, well, well...This is the first time I came across an in-depth review of DS9 extolling it’s depth, complexity and plain ol’ good story writing. In my small circle of Trekker friends, I was the only one who unequivocally stated that DS9 was my favorite of all Star Trek TV series. This was science fiction equivalent to Asimov Foundation and Peter F. Hamilton’s Common Wealth novels. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@@pavlenikic9712 Just thinking about the visitor makes me cry like a baby. Also: Sisko knowing what his son was capable of doing for him until the end of his life, surely strengthened their bond even more. Just such a great series.
Totally agree! DS9 is my favorite ST show as well. And I think what was so great about it was that the writers weren't afraid to show the dark side of humanity, and the heroes sometimes being effected by this darker side, made them so much more believable. And Ducat was indeed so well written, and having Marc Alaimo going all out with playing the role, made him in my opinion one of the best movie/tv villains of all time. Again, cause there was so many times where you could relate to him, and he was believable, never over the top. And then having his two main rivals in Avery Brooks and Nana Visitor to spare against made it so much better. A strong actor needs another strong actor to play against to make the character they play seem strong, that also help in making Sisko and Kira look good as characters as well.
Deus Dex Not Classical Liberalism, no. Modern Liberals are Socialist with a strong neoMarxist streak. Conservatives are more Classically Liberal than Modern Liberals are.
Discovery is what it is, whether it's to your taste or not, became of DS9. During Trek's hiatus from TV, appreciation for DS9 and the bold risks it took has only gone up despite it holding a lower viewship next to Voyager, which has seen be opposite evaluation. With VOY they were desperate for the next TNG, the same with Enterprise and it didn't work. That's why new Trek isn't trying to mimic old formulas and aesthetics. The only way forward was to take those risks again. And they've worked out well enough to get it a season 2.
Louis Thrift Call it what you want, but as someone who appreciates what Star Trek used to stand for, STD (a well deserved abbreviation) is garbage. It isn't just that they retconned the Klingons, they violated the principles of what made Star Trek what it was. The Orville is the true successor of Star Trek principles whereas STD has betrayed Gene Rodenberry's vision. One could perhaps make that claim somewhat with DS9, but it didn't really betray the principles as much as stretch them. I have to wonder if the Vulcans in STD even follow the pacifistic principles of IDIC (Infinite Diversity, in Infinite Combinations) as presented in the original series. I somehow doubt it. They pulled away from it in Enterprise's retcon of Vulcan history, but at least it was essentially restored with the teachings of Surak. Here they have Serak advocating an attack first policy, which is really quite un-Vulcan. I'm a big Star Trek fan, but I'm not buying into STD (which is really just a crappy version of the higher quality Axanar story that CBS/Paramount rejected), I'll watch The Orville first.
I don't subscribe to the view that the races of Trek should be so homogenised. That's why a lot of people criticise many of the Klingon stories in 90s Trek because with the exception of recurring characters, your average Klingon was very predictable. About the Vulcans, have you ever heard of the reviewer SFDebris? He's been doing Trek video reviews for a over a decade now. His review of the DIS episode 'Lethe' really argues this well. He acknowledges not everyone sees it this way. It's not for m to repeat his words but check it out on his website.
I was raised a Trekkie on the original series. DS9 is by far my favorite of any of the Treks. Just a couple quick comments about your observations. I appreciate that you made special mention of Marc Alaimo's Gul Dukat and his incredible character arc, though I'm a little surprised you didn't say more about Garak (my personal favorite character). The series was brilliantly paced especially in the later seasons where the story got gritty, and this becomes more obvious when you binge-watch the series in order now--you can't help but notice that after just about every serious or wrenching war-themed episode, there's almost always a Ferengi episode for comic relief. I do have to say, while the supporting cast like Quark are very well fleshed out, some of what the plot did with the Ferengi was absurdly contrived, the character of Rom most of all. I can get behind his kid having the wherewithal to become the first of his race in Starfleet, and the fact that his father was a pathetic loser had a lot to do with that, but to quote Odo from the first season, "Rom's an idiot." Odo's not the kind to just make that statement off-the-cuff. Making Rom into an engineering genius, giving him a hot wife, and ultimately making him the head of the Ferengi business empire just made no sense, but then, neither did anything else that happened to the Ferengi in general. Finally, Far Beyond the Stars was pointless and stupid SJW nonsense. But at least they got it concentrated in one episode.
The best Cisko moment was in "For the Uniform" when he poisoned the atmosphere of a Maa'ki planet in retaliation for their doing the same to a Cardassian colony. He went down to Eddington's level and became the villain in order to subdue another character who pictured himself as the hero in his own story. Eddington was flying circles around the Federation with their hands tied behind their backs with regulations and moral obligations. Cisko discarded those in order to fight him on a more level playing field. "Major, shut that thing off! Mr. Worf, prepare to fire torpedoes!"
One of the themes you didn't comment on or summarize is the fact that this show dealt with spiritual-religious themes in such a fantastic way. It was more grey, not a black-and-white "science good religion bad" reduction. Sisko was BOTH starfleet captain AND emissary of the prophets. The most hardcore religious figures are portrayed as either blind to more subtle understandings (that one guy from the past who thought he was the emissary) or narcissistic and self-serving (Vedek/Kai Winn). In contrast the show never reduces the Prophets to scientifically understood-and-solved aliens. Brilliant. Not preachy or dismissive. Brilliant.
Damar was a real 'dark horse' as a character............he starts off as simple order taker and thug.................but ends the series as rebel,freedom fighter and momentary hero. Brilliantly acted.
I LOVED Deep Space Nine from Start to Finish. I agree with your spot-on analysis too, it was a well-written show with believable characters who most of us could identify with. I think the writers had something else in mind with this show, because they wanted to set it apart, make it more unique from the other shows, and this could explain why it appealed to a smaller fan-base. When it came to humor, for me no two characters pulled it off better than Quark & Odo, particularly in Season 5 Episode Ascent, when they had the most time alone with each other (against their wishes of course), when Odo was tasked with taking Quark to some distant world, to spend Jail Time, but ended up accidentally crash-landing their runabout on some half-suitable planet! The relationship between Miles O’Brien & Julian Bashir, etc.... the plots and schemes of the Dominion, Captain Sisko’s beef with Michael Eddington etc made for a really interesting show!!
I honestly think without DS9’s serialised, complex storytelling with so many characters who are morally grey and could die at any time (Opaka, Bareill, Dax, Weyoun, Damar, Ziyal, Gowron, Sisko, Wyn, and Dukat to name a few), we wouldn’t have seen stuff like Game Of Thrones now. And DS9 did 170 odd episodes of it. Great stuff.
My favorite ST series! The development of many primary AND secondary characters on the show was amazing! Indeed, in many ways, the supporting cast outshone the main cast. E.g., Martok, Garak, Rom, Nog, Weyoun, Dumar, Dukat, etc. -- they all had great stories and I think the writers did an excellent job with exploring the facets of those memorable characters!
Dave, my wife and I have watched this show six times, now, and we are now on our seventh play-through (thanks to Me--2 TV). The show is powerful, dark, gritty and I was glad to see "O"Brien" and "Worf" develop their characters from the somewhat wooden people they were on TNG. I was quite happy that there was no "ship's counselor" who had the power to relieve a captain of command if she "sensed" something that bothered her. It goes without saying that two people who started out with TOS are going to love Star Trek. With the exception of several episodes of TNG, my reaction to that show was "Eh". I can only stomach seasons 1-3 of Voyager, but I liked Enterprise. I have never, and will never watch DIscovery. But Deep Space Nine? The best show in the series, in my opinion. By the way, all Curzon Dax has to do is smile to make my day brighter!
Garak (spelling?) was a very (best in my opinion) interesting character and played very well by Andrew Robinson (who I remember from the Dirty Harry film). As many others have asked, B5 next please.
I remember when I first saw Garak I thought to myself "where have I seen this actor before?" Drove me nuts for awhile. But one night my girlfriend at the time rented Dirty Harry from Blockbuster video. When I saw Andrew Robinson I literally shouted "That's where I know him from!!!!!" Lol
I agree with pretty much everything you said. This show turned out to be quite a gem and illustrates with conviction the genius effort of Rick Berman and the people he hired. I hope the rest of the industry will look back at the successes of this show and learn from it. DS9 was riddled with politics (not all of it I agreed with), yet kept a fairly balance view amid the complexities of its characters and stories. Brilliant show.
Wow what a great review! I'm watching DS9 right now with my Dad. :) You are right, it has so much more depth to the characters than TNG, which I grew up watching.
Once Sisko shaved his head, that’s when the series blew up. Now I loved ToS, TNG, Enterprise and parts of Voyageur. The first couple of seasons of DS9 I was underwhelmed but looking back after watching it all, it’s some of the best Trek ever.
The first sign of DS9's excellence - Jake Sisko did not become the new Wesley Crusher. Thank You!
Edd Starr Didn't they though when you think,about it? They had a chance to let Jake be different and follow in his father's footsteps which would've been interesting to see. Instaed they chose to repeat the Wesley theme by having him avoid becoming a Starfleet officer once again repeating the whole theme.
Ummmm.... Wesley DID become a starfleet officer, following in his father's footsteps......
mistamichal He became an officer off screen in between the series and Nemesis. In the actual series it was continually implied by plot design he was meant for something more whuchwas concluded and confirmed before the end of the series when hr left with the travelor. The actual series over the course of 7 seasons with the plot and writing never built for him to go into Starfleet. He did it because he was gifted and felt obligated to his parents and Picard and ultimately regretted it. Having a series where the son character actually wanted to go into Starfleet by his own motivation and gradually build,to that over the series is entirely different.
Wow - both Jake and Wesley were raised by single parents and both boys grew quite a rebellious streak!
Why are you even talking about Wesley Crusher? There was a reason he was written out of TNG. The character was too much even for the happy feel of TNG. He had to go. In my alternate universe Wesley is assimilated by the Borg and never heard from again.
Elim Garak is the single best secondary character in any Science Fiction show ever... period. He had more depth than most main characters in other shows including other Star Trek shows. The only other character that comes close is Gul Dukat... another DS9 character. This was a great show.
londo mollari
You'd shoot a man in the back?
Well, it's the safest way, isn't it?
Of course, what else could it be?
That you should never tell the same lie twice.
Just....Garak.
Plain, simple Garak.
Richard Crockett Garak and Gul Dukat, but reversed.
Brain smasher - I put them on almost equal footing but Garak gets the nod only because he was on a lot more episodes than Gul Dukat. I also think because he got a lot more screen time his character was a lot more developed than Dukat. Dukat made great jumps in development between appearances whereas Garak we got to see develop slowly over time.
Whenever Q showed up on the Enterprise, Picard shouted about ethics the whole time and could never get rid of him.
When he came to DS9 Sisko punched him in the face and he never showed up again.
"Thanks Sisko." Captain Janeway.
DS9 really underused Q's character - and that's saying something. Q didn't intervene because... well... there were no his level stakes involved.
@@piotrd.4850 Gyverguy got it right. Q was antagonistic, he enjoyed winding Picard up. Picard tolerated it, due to his belief in the Prime Directive and his standing orders (seeking out new life and learning from and understanding it). Sisko was a good leader to his team, but he wasn't an explorer like Picard, and he lacked the same kind of patience. He saw that Q was hostile, and was playing games, so he had little time for his games. If it came to an all out war, Sisko is the man you want at the helm. Picard would do his best to prevent it, rather than win it. Sisko was more realistic in his approach, he viewed war as inevitable, and then focused his decisions around winning, rather than being reasonable and doing his utmost to prevent it (as Picard would have).
@@piotrd.4850 maybe, but what about the" wormhole Gods " worshipped by the Bajorrans ? Surely such a presumptuous title and dynamic would've piqued his interest in them.
Q-
"I'll see if you're Worthy of playing on my universe's front lawn. Otherwise, I'll have to pass my Holy Judgement opon you all- and then )) Snap (( you'll be all gone.."
PS- John D is awesome as Q.. definitely in my top tier of secondary reoccurring characters.
@@zalamael Well said
The best part about Quark's monologue in "Siege of AR-558" is that in a later scene, he realizes that truth about innate savagery also applies to him when Quark has to backshoot a Jem'Hadar soldier and in that scene - there are no words. It's all in Shimerman's eyes.
Yep, coming right after his OTHER great "We would have found another way, we would have negotiated a peace.." speech made it work perfectly too. Quark got two stand-out monologues that episode.
Quark was pretty much my favorite and watching his evolution in the series was the best part, you rarely got that in the other series as they tended to remain pretty static.
Quark was always there to hold a mirror on mankind. quiet some time actually he had memorable quotes about men
@@MyBrainGlows
He has 2 different speeches on how evil humans are. One is to sisko in the finale of season 2, and then the episode where Nog gets shot in the final season
Unfortunately he got eaten by a giant snake at the end of the series.
Here's me thinking the show was about self-sealing stem bolts.
Nooo, it was obviously about yamok sauce
Hasperat?
Wait, I changed my mind, I think it was about ODN relays all along.
You're all wrong. It taught us the insidiousness of root beer!
It taught us just how many different ways we could whip and torture O'Brien
I passed on DS9 for years because I though "How can you have Star Trek without a ship or exploration?" and boy was I wrong! I grew up watching TNG and have great memories of that series but DS9 is the better show by far. I would say that the first season could be considered a little slow but man when it gets going this series is AMAZING!
Yeh I'll always like TNG the most but DS9 is the better show, it outshines the Stat Trek brand in the same way Wrath of Khan transcends the franchise
"On Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window at Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise.
Well, it's easy to be a saint in paradise. But the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there, in the Demilitarized Zone, all problems have not been solved yet.
There are no saints, just people; angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive, whether it meets with the Federation approval or not."
- Commander Benjamin Sisko
Hydrogen One And that Federation president came off to me as a grandma. A jab at TNG maybe?
Maquis was very unrealistic. There were hundreds of sparsely populated planets they could have lived on that were not near the Cardasians (space Nazis). To be realistic they should have made the Marquis Mormons whos book told them they had to live there.
@@needparalegal Maquis is extremely realistic.... It's the problem with forced "relocation" at it's core. If you've built your home from scratch on a hostile planet for a generation and carved out a home--- you're not really willing to give that up very easily.
After that magnificent speech, just after Sisko had been admonished by a Starfleet admiral based on earth, paradise in his speech, I wonder why he wasn't more forgiving of the Maquis. I understand his for the uniform sentament with his friend, and eddington really snookered him , but still...
At the time I liked DS9, but also hated how it was crapping all over Gene's vision so soon after his death, like they couldn't wait til he was gone. But now as an adult I fully appreciate how the show covers the same themes and ideals but presents them in a different way. Instead of saying "that's all in our past and we are better people now," it asks questions about it. What would happen if those ideals are tested and pushed to the limit?
Even background characters who never get a single line of dialogue get an in-depth episode about their lives "Who Mourns for Morn?"
DS9's main advantage was that the network basically left it alone to do its own thing. Unlike Voyager which as the flagship show of the Paramount Network ended up being seriously constrained by 'suits'. This allowed the producers and writers on DS9 to have a lot more freedom in how the show was structured and how the stories were told. The result is that while all the Trek shows (minus Discovery) can and are fun overall none of them have managed to push the boundaries or manage to remain as consistently good over time as DS9 has when you look at series overall rather than individual episodes. Enterprises fourth season came close, and it would most likely have passed DS9 in many aspects had they decided to make a fifth season.
DS9 however remains the one Trek series that really hasn't aged. Spruce up some of the effects shots, redo some of the battles and there is no reason this series wouldn't work just as well today as it did back in the 90's.
c Byrne in fact dare I say it was way ahead of its time. The way it was wrote and done is a lot more in tune with audiences of today which is why it's stood the test of time it was never much in that time anyway.
Many great quotes to, that would never have been allowed in the other treks. Lots of trekkies call DS9 the anti Roddenberry show.
I think the real lesson that should be learnt is that network 'suits' should basically hire producers who know what they are doing, then more or less leave them alone unless they are going a bit too far.
It's a lesson Paramount, CBS, Lucasfilm and DC seem as of late to be incapable of understanding.
c Byrne yeah it is a mistake they make often, I see it as far back as enterprise, where all the behind the scenes documentaries show huge network interference from people who did not understand the show yet enforced certain ideas into the show because its what the network thought would make a great star trek show but not necessarily what the fans thought would make a great show.
They did the same with Voyager, which should and was intended to be Treks take on Battlestar Galactica. And was forced to be TNG light.
Not, I'll add, that Voyager was actually a bad series overall.
What is depressing is that both Enterprise and Voyager have more than a few episodes that show what the writers were really capable of doing when left alone.
been rewatching DS9 - such a good show ... shame we never got a remastered blu-ray version :(
yeah they never made their money back on the tng remaster so they didn’t bother with ds9
I'm sure one day it will come. Not because they want a bluray release like TNG, but because they'll be trying to sell their streaming channel with murky 90s versions of DS9 and Voyager. Eventually it will be an embarrassment for them and they'll have to remaster them.
Agreed! I wasn't the biggest fan of DS9 when it came out, probably mostly because it WASN''T TNG. However after recently re-watching the entire DS9 series, I really appreciated the 'darker' themes explored!
We can 100% blame the studio for that one. They didn’t get it through their heads in time that they had been way overcharging for Star Trek on physical media for years, especially in comparison to every other network’s TV series. Charging more than double everyone else’s prices meant they were selling only to the most obsessive or the fan base. I wanted to buy it all but refused to be ripped off for it.
@@garym6315 DS9 looks well enough on modern TVs.
I was trying to read the promenade directly last night. It’s not English but the letters are crystal clear on a big enough tv.
Also, weyoun was holding an empty container with no baseball card in that episode. I really don’t think the series needs a remaster. Be kinda clunky with all the stock footage scenes reused over and over in battles.
Ds9 should have had its own movie.
It could if Paramount gave a s*** about DS9
They wrapped it all up in the final episodes, and left little, if anything, to make a movie plot. DS9 stands alone
They had books, from the Millennium Trilogy, released during the show's run, to the post series relaunch books. Some mixed bags there, but very good ones too.
Not To toot a video games horn But.
STO-Star track online Has Been developing a session of DS9 story's + most of, thee original cast voicing there respective charterers. That should give foregrounds, to make a movie some how.
There was like 4 DS9 games 3 on PC one on Super Nintendo.
Sounds like I need to log into STO.
DS9 has SO much more depth than any other Star Trek show. By far my favorite series
In The Pale Moonlight was so good. DS9 is by far my favorite too
"I lied. I cheated...I'm an accessory to murder...Because I can live with it...I can live with it! ...Computer, delete that entire personal log"
If this was in HD, I would buy it.
"Brag all you want, but don't get between me, and the blood wine!"
“Pale Moonlight” is best Star Trek episode of all time. Garak was amazing and the testing of Sisko’s morality was intriguing.
Picard would never have done what Sisko had to do. Picard was too caught up in Starfleet regulations. And so if Picard had been in charge at DS9 the Romulans would never have joined the Federation and the Klingons in the war against the Dominion. And Picard would never have even talked to someone like Garak.
You are correct.
@@orcman8296 True, but I think if Picard was the commander of DS9 the war would have never happened, as Picard is a master Diplomat and would have found a way to find common ground to satisfy both parties. So no war = no need to trick Romulus in to war.
Brilliant episode.
@@Mneros not really. Picard isn't magical. If it was that wasy thy would have just asked him to talk.
My favourite TV show of all time.
I think it's difficult to go into DS9 cold, it's very much a sequel/companion to TNG and assumes knowledge of the universe established there. It also picks up some storylines from that show.
glaven
LeftHandedGuitarist Agreed. Best sci-fi series ever.
LeftHandedGuitarist I agree. Without TNG I wouldn't have gotten into DS9. Definitely a companion series. Beyond Spock I wasn't much into 70's Star Trek.
Gee Tee That's obvious. Star Trek came out in the 60s.
Dean Croney Garrick for me was the best character...best program ever
Actually I liked the bit where Cisco punched Que.
Why? It is literally a way to yell at the audience "THIS IS NOT TNG".
Picard never hit me
@@williamoneswhannell1060 I'm not Picard
Cisco be like "I am Q on this station"
Oh don’t mind us, go right ahead and make an hour(s) long video describing DS9 to the unbelievers.
SAPProd Yes!
Great idea, Mr. Sack!
Every time a new Trek show tries to show how cool it is with diversity and strong female leads it makes me actually sad because DS9 had both a really diverse cast full of great female characters and it never once smelled it's own farts over the fact. Kira's one of my favorite characters in the franchise and a complete badass and not once had to go into a speech about how she could be tough because she was a woman or anything. When race does come up as an issue, it's extremely well done too: Far Beyond the Stars is just great. I did get a laugh that Sisko had a problem with historical revisionism in video games in the holodeck heist episode, too, lol.
Deep Space Nine is by far my favourite Star Trek series. All it took was In the Pale Moonlight to convince me of that. My favourite characters were Elim Garak, Odo, and Quark, and Benjamin Sisko is my favourite Star Trek captain.
DS9 was by far the best Star Trek series.
I rewatch episodes of TNG and VOY, but I rewatch chunks of DS9 all the time. Probably my favorite Sci-Fi show of all time.
Back in the 90s, no one made that claim. Today people act like it is tho, i tend to agree i just find it funny that for 20 years people ignored it and now scream its praise. Where were yall back then when i had to go to war with people over it?
@@jonathansoko1085 I appreciate it more now than I did then. I cannot even watch 99% of todays TV due to plot holes and bad writing. I didn't watch TV in the 90s, I was busy racking up student debt in a rigged system.
@@jonathansoko1085 TNG cast a long shadow, as someone who watched most of TNG and all of DS9 in the original run, DS9 was a challenging series and required a knowledge of Trek and appreciation of complex writing. The show was promoted poorly and the first season was under more scrunity as TNG was huge at the time. It got really good from season 2-5 and even better but the serialized format always made me feel like I was missing something during the Dominion war. It also had an awful ending, I really wish the series had a more satisfying finale.
@@chonconnor6144 TNG casts a "long shadow" if you are the type of person that runs on nostalgia alone. Theres alot of people like you, you remember how you felt and your life when you first watched it, so anything else you deem not as good because of your personal feelings. We both know im right
Any DS9 fan's should back the "What we left behind" Documentary It will have HD DS9 scenes and it the best way to vote for the possibility of full DS9 blurays (besides buying other Trek blurays of course)
It was my first (and only) crowdfunding type product I ever purchased- I can't wait for it to be complete and arrive on DVD or digital download. I really wish I was physically able to have purchased some of those perks where you had dinner with the cast, I totally would have spent $1000 on that.
That would be amazing, I had heard much of it was lost. But I think the increase in CGI would make upgrading to HD much more expensive and time consuming than TNG. Imagine all those space battles.
Well I'd buy HD DS9 in a minute but that is dated 2013. Afraid if it hasn't happened by now...
Nexus I can’t wait to get a copy.
And now I will be seeing the documentary in less than 24 hours, in theaters. I can't wait.
Gene Roddenberry (hope I spelled it right) probably wouldn't have liked the series all that much; hell Majel Roddenberry (Genes Widow) had said, more then once, that Gene would have despised the Dominion war arc.
You forgot the character Morn/Mourn, a background character seen mainly in the 1st few seasons, but showed up in later ones once or twice. The joke/conceit with that character was that you never heard him say one word throughout the series entire run, but off camera the characters would say that he'd "never shut up", or just as you'd see him FINALLY talk, it would switch to another scene/set of characters doing something else. It was a great bit, & the show did it successfully for the entire run.
Majel's thoughts on the war Arc is puzzling. I know Gene didn't want war in his creation, and only focus on Humanities potential for good. However we are not in a paradise golden age at the moment. The best way i see us getting there is to explore the aggressive nature within us, so we can better learn from these events. brushing humanities blood thrust under the rug and just stating that the future is perfect is not the best approach. The show is about the Human condition, and id say war falls high on the list.
@@Mneros The problem is that Star Trek was always about showing humans in a brighter future, DS9 didn't really do that, it more or less showed humans of today but in a future setting which isn't realistic at all because technological advancement changes how people think so much of what we do today we couldn't with that level of tech as it would likely wipe out the human race, in fact I suspect the human race would never get to the stage of Star Trek with today way of thinking and that is the main flaw of DS9.
It was good entertainment but it went too far from what Star Trek was all about and Star Trek did start to go into decline around that time and the irony is, today we really could do with a Star Trek that paints a bright future like TOS and TNG did with all the things that are going on today as people are losing hope.
I loved this
@@DazedSpy2 If you say so but it's easy to see how the depiction of humans in DS9 was more in line with humans of the time when it was made and all because it's more relatable to us, it's much easier to sell something that is more relatable to the audience that they are selling something to them something that is far in the future that is so different from us.
Don't get me wrong, I liked DS9 but it was around then where Star Trek started to go downhill and hasn't recovered from it since, it basically became too action focused which isn't what Star Trek was all about and the moment it went like that, it was no different from other sci-fi shows with a lot of things blowing up and special effects, it's the same mistakes they do with the new Star Treks today.
In any case, it's highly unlikely that Star Trek will recover because it's lost its vision the moment Gene died, other took over and pushed it to be more action focused and it went downhill ever since.
And that Morn was an anagram of "Norm" from Cheers. So good...
You're right. DS9 was written like a well...a story. It had a consistent arc, plot, character development, with real motivations, consequences, and not always a happy ending. It was... as the Dr. Bashir said in the first episode... "I came to experience real frontier life."
I read somewhere that the Dr. Bashir character was originally intended to be sort of an adult version of Wesley Crusher. Brilliant but naive. But the writers realized that such a character had no place on this show and fleshed him out a bit to make him more edgy. I'm glad they did. He was really annoying at first.
This show is a masterpiece, the depth of the characters, the story arcs, the intertwining of multiple plots and the cameos of characters from times past were all very well done. Favourite episodes were in the pale moonlight and once more unto the breach.
DS9 truely was Star Trek's finest series for every reason given. If only we could get that quality of writing back.
Right on! Not sure I've ever been invested in another show the way I was with DS9.
Robert Smith i was invested in every series of Trek stil am. With exception of the abomination STD. It would take drastic changes to make me want to invest the time and money to watch it.
Sadly I think you will never see writing even half that good on television ever again.
Amen brother
Rift Vallance sadly you are probably right
For me, DS9 was the height of Star Trek. The writing was superb and the characters likable. Voyager seemed more cardboard and Enterprise was just going through the motions. Both Voyager and Enterprise seemed to represent a down sliding in the quality of Star Trek to me. Anything after Enterprise (the Reboot and Discovery) doesn't even count as BEING Star Trek. By that point, it had become unrecognizable to me.
I basically feel the same. DS9 is my fave, then TNG. I prefer Voyager to Enterprise, and both to either the new movies or STD. Nothing after 2005 is Star Trek to me. Even when Berman/Braga-era Trek became largely disposable and was at its absolute low point (Voyager S6-7 to ENT S1-2), it at least still had an idea of what Star Trek is (and isn't) and largely got the tone right.
Oh I don't know, as much as I like DS9 and it's the second best Trek behind TNG for me, I always felt that DS9 was trying to show humans of today with the same kind of problems humans have now and with the same kind of reaction that humans would do.
I always felt that wasn't realistic for a future setting, I also felt it got darker and could be what led to what Star Trek is like now.
But don't get me wrong, DS9 was great but Star Trek was always about a bright future for the human race and DS9 changed that, also viewing figures started to go downhill around that time.
Anyway, the reason why I think many like DS9 is because it's a lot more relatable to today humans but there is the problem already, Star Trek was always about showing a much more enlighten human race not today humans and that for me was it's major flaw, not to mention all the religion talk, I mean really, the future and religion doesn't mix lol.
In any case, both TNG and DS9 ware the best of Star Trek but it all went downhill mid to late 90's and it's been in the dumps every since.
@@paul1979uk2000 I disagree completely. I personally liked both Voyager and Enterprise. They weren't perfect but they were intriguing shows. Enterprise could've been better but it was canceled just as it was really starting to shine.
DS9 was different from other Star Trek series because most of these characters had far more traumatic life experiences than other Trek characters. Borg massacre survivors, Cardassian Occupation survivors, ex-Obsidian Order members, being the only known member of your species, the experiences of several different lifetimes, etc. These characters didn't act as "evolved" as in other Trek series because their "bright futures" weren't paradise.
The religious aspect was actually really genius because it reflects on how battered people cling to religion as a sign of hope to overcome their struggles. Bajorans weren't as advanced as Humans so they still clung to somewhat outdated religious beliefs. But then again, just because people live in the 24th century doesn't mean that they'll disregard their religion. Look at the Klingons for example. They were just as, if not more religious than the Bajorans
DS9 doesn't get enough props for it's production design. It often looks and feels way, way more cinematic than the other Trek shows. When you try to watch Voyager (I have given up on that several times) it's like this flat, cheap crap. Everything on DS9 looks like it's got large scope and is so much more alive, plus the Cardassian station allows for cool lighting and visually interesting rooms. The Promenade feels both sizable and always alive, for example.
I am rewatching ENT right now, and even the first season is way better than anything STD did.
Am rewatching this now. Quite interesting to see how much Rom's character changed from the first episodes to later in the serious, including even the voice. A stark difference.
Dukat is one my favorite ST characters of all time.
Agreed, when you finally see him die, fatally betrayed by Kai Winn , it's both satisfying and visceral to see a deluded , murderous tyrant get his due by the hand of another deluded, power-hungry tyrant.. Poetry. Top ten death scenes of all time.
Mine as well, brilliantly written. There are such nuances to the character. Completely believable villain.
Agreed, honourble mention to Demar as well.
I LIKED DEEP SPACE 9, WHEN IT FIRST STARTED...ONCE SISKO SHAVED HIS HEAD...THE SHOW TOOK OFF
Funny but seems true
As a combat veteran this has become my favorite series and you mentioned my two favorite episodes. The siege of AR 558 and in the pale moon light.
I always found the show to be very engaging. Deep Space Nine once actually the first Star Trek series I watched on TV. Benjamin Sisko was also the most well-rounded commanding officer in all of Star Trek. #SISKO4LIFE!😎
DS9 started airing in my country when I just started college so I only could watch a few episodes. Then I finished the first season online a few months ago. I'm somehow glad I'm now an adult before watching it whole: it's going to be a quite different experience than have watched it 15 years ago.
I agree. There are some things in the show you have to be an adult to appreciate.
Definitely, Liberty. My absolute FAVORITE moment in the entire show has to be at the end of It's Only a Paper Moon where Nog lives in the holosuite with Vic after losing his leg. He has this conversation at the end and it breaks my heart.
Nog, "Don't you get it? I can't go out there!"
Vic, "Why not?"
Nog, "Because I'm scared, alright! I'm scared. When the war began...I wasn't happy or anything. But I was eager. I wanted to prove myself. I wanted to see if I had what it took to be a soldier. I saw a lot of combat. I saw a lot of people get hurt; I saw a lot of people die....but I didn't think anything was going to happen to me. Then suddenly Doctor Bashir is telling me he has to cut my leg off. I couldn't believe it....I still can't believe it. If I can get shot, if I can lose my leg then anything could happen to me Vic. I could die tomorrow! I don't know if I'm ready to face that. If I stay here then at least I know what the future is going to be like."
Vic, "If you stay here, you'll die. Not all at once, but little by little. Eventually you'll become as hollow as I am."
Nog, "You don't seem hollow to me."
Vic, "Compared to you I'm as hollow as a snare drum."
I'm a huge history buff, and especially things like WW1/2. This is a story I've heard time and time again and seeing it portrayed so well in Star Trek with such an innocent likable character destroyed me. It's the only time I actually teared up aside from The Visitor. I fucking love DS9.
@@applepie231
Yes - that is a brilliant scene
Here here, and thank you for mentioning specific episodes, like “Duet”, “Far Beyond the Stars” and “”Pale Moonlight” to name a few. I also really appreciated the relationship between Captain Sisko and his son Jake, the complex nature of Sisko and Kira's friendship, and the interactions between Garak and Odo, as well as Garak and Bashir. There was so much to like about DS9, so much meat on those bones.
I was very late to the DS9 party (just watched it for the first time this year despite being a massive trek fan) and have to say there is a lot more to it than I thought when it was first released. Love it immensely and made recuperation from a serious accident pass quickly,
Brilliant commentary on DS9. It is my favorite Star Trek too. It was the best. I am enjoying watching the reruns.
This really was an incredible series. I loved Babylon 5 as well.
Do you not believe that both shows have eerily similar story arcs?
Fabulous,
Thank you.
One of my favourite shows and you’ve pushed my nostalgia button
As a slightly lonely nerd, the friendship between Bashir and O’Brien was a big part of the show for me
It actually affected me , when I read years later, that the actors didn’t get along
Your daily reminder, Dukat did nothing wrong.
Edward Crowley
Neither did Arcturus Mengsk.
Gul Darhe'el was /ourguy/
Certainly the best antagonist in all Star Trek
How come MORN got all the Best Lines?
Han Lockhart Agreed, the problem with Dukat is he should have died in season 6 or at least gone to prison and never seen again. I love the multi part series finally except when we get to the Dukat Kia Winn plot that makes me cringe.
I couldn't get in to DS9 in the 90's. Mostly because I only got to see it sporadically and the big/long story arcs were lost on me. And then Man created Netflix! I recently binge watched the entire series and got myself a whole new appreciation for the show. My heart will always belong to TOS, but the rest of me belongs to DS9. It's a timeless, incredibly deep, often dark, complex, brilliantly written, superbly acted, character and relationship driven show, and, in my humble opinion, is unmatched in the Sci-fi Universe. I'm just blown away by it.
DS9 was an absolutely amazing series.
Deep Space 9 did provide 2 of the best ever episodes in Trek namely Duet and In the Pale Moonlight.
DS9 has the best writing of any Star Trek series for sure. This video pretty much captures all of the main reasons why. Great stuff!
OK .. you probably won't read this, but I REALLY enjoy your reviews. You look beyond the surface (when applicable) and express a clear, intelligent, thoughtful review of things you like, and a scathing indictment of those you done. I appreciate your reviews, Mr. Cullen. Thank you.
Deep Space 9 is the best Trek ever made. Yeah, I said that, deal with it.
I completely agree with that. It is not my favorite series. But as objective as I can be, I believe it is the best written show of the franchise.
The thing is everybody now loves ds9 so your statement isn't controversial.
the knights of awesomeness couldn’t have put it better myself. I think everyone can “deal” with his statement
Hear hear!
Im with ya
Great analysis. I also liked the Jake and Nog friendship that Sisko initially had a prejudice on because of Ferenghi culture but later deciding to support Nog training for Starfleet. Another demonstration on the depth of characters.
Odo’s relationship with Quark was also amusing too to help add humour to the show
DS9 and the story plot was so well written and flawlessly executed. If the cast would have been TNG on DS9...it would have been the greatest SCI show of all time. DS9 as it stood was a giant among giants.
Pertsonally I never got past the fact that I didn't like its tone or the characters compared to the other Star Treks. I prefer TNG, TOS, Enterprise, and Voyager to it but unlike DS9 purists tend towards me I actually respect the opinion of people who like this version of Star Trek.
I never really liked TNG cast. They always seemed too derivative of the Kirk Crew with Will Robinson.
Picard and his crew were, in my opinion, very naive. Sitting aboard their luxury liner of a starship they actually looked down on other races that didn't embrace Federation values. The series got a little more edgy with the addition of the Borg and the Cardassians, but it never really moved beyond the happy shiny people holding hands feel of the show.
rick nineg everything you said is the opposite of reality. DS9 was terrible in all those aspects.
DS9 was seriously underrated, I liked the more ruthless Realpolitik direction the show took from the beautifully idealistic Next Generation, they are a great compliment to each other.
The funny thing this Andrew Robinson and Marc Alaimo are such amazing actors I could honestly see them switching roles. Their characters are so similar in backstory, but with just a few small forks in their roads that produced such radically different outcomes. Amazing, amazing writing and acting.
DS9 is not only my favorite star trek serie but it's my favorite sci fi show of all time. I lost count of the number of times I've watch the series through. Excellent video!
Agree completely. When DS9 first aired I checked out in the middle of season one for most of the reasons you described. I eventually started watching it in syndication and fell in love with it. The Dominion War was easily the most ambitious thing a Star Trek series ever did.
Gul Dukat made this show for me, his spats with Garak, Sisko and Keira are just amazing. Every time I go back to watch this I always watch the episodes with Dukat because he was a truly despicable villain who just couldn’t understand his own evil. In The Pale Moon Light is by far one of the most amazing episodes of television I have ever seen, it’s a must see for anyone getting into this series.
Great video man. Totally agree with you. DS9 was the best Star trek series ever.
My favourite Trek series. Can still remember the anticipation of each double-episode release on video. Happy days.
ITS A FAKKKKKKEEEE!!!!!
No!... it's REEAL!
@@ssjwes are you not familiar with that episode? If you were, you would know that the data rod is indeed a FAAAAAKE!
Don't you understand?! IT'S REEEAAL!
It’s settled. DS9 gave us the best declaration of something’s validity and fraudulence.
Garak is one sneaky bastard
I'm rewatching DS9 season 6 and 7 right now, again, for the the umpteenth time. It's my all-time favorite Star Trek series and one of the best series ever on TV for all the reasons you've listed.
DS9
TNG
TOS
ENT
VOY
STD
“In the Pale Moonlight” is my favorite episode of Trek
TeutonicKnight92 No one wants an STD... haha.
I would put tas oncthere before ds9.
Ent and STD are horrible
TeutonicKnight92 Put B5 at the top of your list and it'll be closer to reality😊
justanotherlikeyou
Definitely one of my favorite SF shows
Personally I'd put TOS before TNG, but other than that
I seriously love this show. I think DS9 is the best installment in the Star Trek franchise, and it occupies such a special place in my life, and my heart.
The first time I watched it was partway through the third season, and my wife and I were newly married, new parents in our first home together - half of a tiny duplex. We didn’t have much, but we had each other, and the future, and our dreams. I used to watch it sitting in a rocking chair with my infant son cradled in my arms. I loved it.
The second time I watched it was to share it with my son who had grown into a teen. I had introduced him to SciFi gradually over the years...old Flash Gordon serials on DVDs...”Tom Corbett : Space Cadet” radio programs...TOS...Star Wars...finally DS9. We watched it on DVD on the floor of his room in front of a large screen tv. He loved it, and I loved him loving it with me.
Now, my son is twenty-one years old. My wife just told me she wants a divorce. She wants to sell our home, the house where our kids grew up. We lost our dreams, our hopes, and each other. The only thing I have left is the past. I love DS9, but ironically like so much else, it is too painful to enjoy anymore because of how beautiful are its associations in my mind. The closest I can come to enjoying it again is to watch appreciations of it like this one, the comments by fans, and to enjoy it distantly through their love.
I always said DS9 is the best Star Trek show (and "In the pale moonlight" the best Star Trek episode)
But you explained it in this video much better than I ever could.
Sisko is my favorite captain. His interactions with Jake made him seem more real like a military man who is also trying to be a father. He has ideals but he is also a realist
Dukat is quite simply the best trek villain. He is a contemptible bigot who also has a ton of charm. You kind of root for him but also hate him.
"In the Pale Moonlight" probably one of the best episodes of all Sci Fi.
From ST? "Measure of Man" and "Inner Light". From other - "In the Beginning".
I am near tears with this PERFECT analysis of what remains, imo, the single best television serial of all time. I was a Trekkie until 1995 when this show swallowed me whole. My close friend, John, begged me to give it a chance which I finally did, under protest of what I considered an unnecessary addition to the Trek Canon. It stunned me how deep it was. It's the closest thing I found to a life Bible to date.
I loved ds9 and I loved enterprise, why?, probably be cause both series are full of imperfect characters and to me it made them more relatable than tng or voyager where characters were pretty much perfect and lived in utopia.
I think the Characters in Voyager could be flawed also. Belana was Flawed. Tom Paris was defintely flawed. The Doctor,not even a living Being was flawed. Both Kess and later Seven of Nine were both Flawed.
@@HoldenNY22 Janeway and Chakotay had their issues too.
@@HoldenNY22voyager’s characters, there were so many and the writers abandoned them so quick
RIP ODO
RIP NOG
DS9 is ultimately still my favorite Star Trek show
🖖
I can't remember the title, but I think my favorite episode is probably the one where one of dukat's subordinates pretends to be him to stand trial for his crimes during the war... the episode had a lot of heart, even if it was a bit blunt in places, and it helped flesh out Kira's character arc by making her question her hatred of the Cardassians
Edit: I wrote this before watching. Lifelong Trek fan and I’m sad to say I bought into the DS9 bashing when the show was airing. I watched a few episodes in season 1 but that was it. I always heard rumblings of how it was over the years. Took me 20 years but finally in 2014 I binge watched the entire series over about a 3 month span. Wow. I was absolutely blown away. Yes first season is a little slow and even some of second but it picks up quickly. And when the Dominion stuff starts “shut up and take my money”. That 3 months was such an emotional journey. I love TNG but was never impacted nor where as close as DS9. The arc of the Gul Ducot character alone is worth the watch. I actually felt sorry for him in the end. Just so many things right with the series. This is the “adult” series of Trek. The story telling is phenomenal. No weak main characters and each of them seem to get their proper storylines. The episode where Sisko looks at the camera the whole time while explaining why he killed the Romulan to get them into the war. I’m rambling now but holy shit was that a morally complex exercise. Same with Eddington. Trek has never been that real or gritty before and never will again.
Sisko is the baddest mo-fo in all of Star Trek. The guy poisoned an entire planet just to catch one fallen Starfleet officer !! #SiskoismyCaptain
That's actually one of the reason why he's my least favorite captain. Launching a chemical weapon on a civilian target just to capture one man....I don't even know how it's possible that he survive the court marshal at all?
Dr Galactose his crew should have been court martialed too. Chemical attacks are illegal and they can’t say just following orders.
Dr Galactose Sisko got off because of the tit for tat rule. Maquis poisons planet A, making it inhabitable for the Cardassians. Sisko returns the balance of power by making a Maquis planet inhabitable for humans. Status quo maintained for the most part.
You mean "uninhabitable", right?
Even then......does that justified the use of chemical weapon? on a CIVILIAN target? Did anyone take into account how unpredictable the chemical weapons are, and how the event, with only small change, like wind change, or the colonist are a little too far away from evacuation transport, or simply the number of the transport aren't enough to carry enough people, or the weapon were a little bit more effective than they think it would be due to terrain, can easily turn into a massacre?
I'm sorry, but as someone whose profession make me know too well what could even the most basic form of NCB weapon can cause, there's no way to justified it, even less so against a civilian.
Daniel Bennett
Article 14, Section 31; General Order 24; Special Order 66715. Sisko was fully within Federation Law.
I don't agree with you on much, but you're 100% spot-on here. I think DS9 was not only the best Trek, but one of the greatest television dramas of the 20th Century.
Too bad DS9 will probably never get the Hi-Def treatment TNG did.
True, just a few HD scenes remade in the coming doco. I'm still hoping for the rest though.
Yeah but they're just excuses not because they can't do it because they won't
Just like TNG, all the special effects were done in 480. So, Paramount would need to re-do them like they did with TNG. DS9 had more complex effects especially with the Dominion Battles. Apparently, the sales of the TNG Blu-Ray's weren't good enough to justify the cost. Sad.
@@dtown-fi5xs The other problem is that DS9 had a lot more action then TOS and TNG and that would likely make it a lot more expensive to remaster, I suspect it will happen at some point but I doubt it will any time soon. now if TOS and TNG remaster was a great sales success for them, DS9 likely would of got remasters now but as it is, I doubt they think it's worth doing as it's likely going to be a lot more expensive to do DS9 compared to TOS and TNG combined.
This is my number one chill out of all of the Star Trek series that's how I grew up watching including the Next Generation and Voyager.
I loved the multicultural setting, and the longer story arcs
DS9 is easily my favourite Star Trek series, great characters, great long running story, the Dominion War plot was done very well, so much to love about that series. In the Pale Moonlight is one of best Trek episodes ever.
Agree 💯%‼️
DS9 is my favorite Star Trek show by far. I was glad you mentioned "The Visitor", as that episode effected me as strongly as any TV episode has, particularly when I first saw it. I suppose it was because I could relate to it in a certain way that was (and still is) meaningful to me. It resonates powerfully with me, I think because my own Father was rarely ever around even though I strongly desired a stronger relationship with him.
I could empathize with Jake Sisko in that episode in a way I've rarely found since. It still brings a tear to my eye and chokes me up, even now to some extent after I've seen it several times. My own Father isn't a bad person, but he has been negligent and absent as a parent, and that loss still resonates to this day. I could understand Jake's choice to give his younger self the Father he'd lost, even at the sacrifice of his own life. He had hope for his younger self to have a better and more fulfilling life with his Father's presence and guidance. Something I can easily imagine potentially being true in my own life if such a choice would ever be presented. The characters may have been fictional, but they were thoroughly relatable.
It’s crazy that this video came across my feed today because I’m rewatching DS9 at the moment. I’ve said for years that DS9 is the best Star Trek series. So many amazing characters.
DS9 is amazing. I often wrestle between it and TNG as my favorite Trek show. I feel that DS9 is superior in most ways, but it doesn't have that Patrick Stewart tour de force that TNG has, and in my mind that slightly tilts the favor. Still, DS9 was groundbreaking television for its time, and its influence in later shows is evident.
Also, probably the biggest character transformation in the series is Damar. Really amazing that he went from Gul Dukat's yesman to being a revolutionary hero.
Well, well, well...This is the first time I came across an in-depth review of DS9 extolling it’s depth, complexity and plain ol’ good story writing. In my small circle of Trekker friends, I was the only one who unequivocally stated that DS9 was my favorite of all Star Trek TV series. This was science fiction equivalent to Asimov Foundation and Peter F. Hamilton’s Common Wealth novels. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
"In the pale moonlight" is the episode that hooked me on DS9.
The visitor as well for me
@@pavlenikic9712 Just thinking about the visitor makes me cry like a baby. Also: Sisko knowing what his son was capable of doing for him until the end of his life, surely strengthened their bond even more. Just such a great series.
@@JazzRadioFfm i agree. now i have to rewatch ds9 again, you reminded me of it :P
6 and a half seasons in? Welcome to the party pal.
Totally agree! DS9 is my favorite ST show as well. And I think what was so great about it was that the writers weren't afraid to show the dark side of humanity, and the heroes sometimes being effected by this darker side, made them so much more believable.
And Ducat was indeed so well written, and having Marc Alaimo going all out with playing the role, made him in my opinion one of the best movie/tv villains of all time. Again, cause there was so many times where you could relate to him, and he was believable, never over the top. And then having his two main rivals in Avery Brooks and Nana Visitor to spare against made it so much better. A strong actor needs another strong actor to play against to make the character they play seem strong, that also help in making Sisko and Kira look good as characters as well.
Two thumbs down from Discovery only watchers
Deus Dex you do realize that trek has been pretty liberal from the beginning right?
Deus Dex
Not Classical Liberalism, no. Modern Liberals are Socialist with a strong neoMarxist streak. Conservatives are more Classically Liberal than Modern Liberals are.
Discovery is what it is, whether it's to your taste or not, became of DS9. During Trek's hiatus from TV, appreciation for DS9 and the bold risks it took has only gone up despite it holding a lower viewship next to Voyager, which has seen be opposite evaluation. With VOY they were desperate for the next TNG, the same with Enterprise and it didn't work. That's why new Trek isn't trying to mimic old formulas and aesthetics. The only way forward was to take those risks again. And they've worked out well enough to get it a season 2.
Louis Thrift
Call it what you want, but as someone who appreciates what Star Trek used to stand for, STD (a well deserved abbreviation) is garbage. It isn't just that they retconned the Klingons, they violated the principles of what made Star Trek what it was. The Orville is the true successor of Star Trek principles whereas STD has betrayed Gene Rodenberry's vision. One could perhaps make that claim somewhat with DS9, but it didn't really betray the principles as much as stretch them. I have to wonder if the Vulcans in STD even follow the pacifistic principles of IDIC (Infinite Diversity, in Infinite Combinations) as presented in the original series. I somehow doubt it. They pulled away from it in Enterprise's retcon of Vulcan history, but at least it was essentially restored with the teachings of Surak. Here they have Serak advocating an attack first policy, which is really quite un-Vulcan. I'm a big Star Trek fan, but I'm not buying into STD (which is really just a crappy version of the higher quality Axanar story that CBS/Paramount rejected), I'll watch The Orville first.
I don't subscribe to the view that the races of Trek should be so homogenised. That's why a lot of people criticise many of the Klingon stories in 90s Trek because with the exception of recurring characters, your average Klingon was very predictable. About the Vulcans, have you ever heard of the reviewer SFDebris? He's been doing Trek video reviews for a over a decade now. His review of the DIS episode 'Lethe' really argues this well. He acknowledges not everyone sees it this way. It's not for m to repeat his words but check it out on his website.
I was raised a Trekkie on the original series. DS9 is by far my favorite of any of the Treks.
Just a couple quick comments about your observations. I appreciate that you made special mention of Marc Alaimo's Gul Dukat and his incredible character arc, though I'm a little surprised you didn't say more about Garak (my personal favorite character). The series was brilliantly paced especially in the later seasons where the story got gritty, and this becomes more obvious when you binge-watch the series in order now--you can't help but notice that after just about every serious or wrenching war-themed episode, there's almost always a Ferengi episode for comic relief.
I do have to say, while the supporting cast like Quark are very well fleshed out, some of what the plot did with the Ferengi was absurdly contrived, the character of Rom most of all. I can get behind his kid having the wherewithal to become the first of his race in Starfleet, and the fact that his father was a pathetic loser had a lot to do with that, but to quote Odo from the first season, "Rom's an idiot." Odo's not the kind to just make that statement off-the-cuff. Making Rom into an engineering genius, giving him a hot wife, and ultimately making him the head of the Ferengi business empire just made no sense, but then, neither did anything else that happened to the Ferengi in general.
Finally, Far Beyond the Stars was pointless and stupid SJW nonsense. But at least they got it concentrated in one episode.
The greatest Star Trek series of all time, my personal favourite and it had my favourite Star Trek. Love ya Next Gen, but I'm with Sisko.
The best Cisko moment was in "For the Uniform" when he poisoned the atmosphere of a Maa'ki planet in retaliation for their doing the same to a Cardassian colony. He went down to Eddington's level and became the villain in order to subdue another character who pictured himself as the hero in his own story. Eddington was flying circles around the Federation with their hands tied behind their backs with regulations and moral obligations. Cisko discarded those in order to fight him on a more level playing field. "Major, shut that thing off! Mr. Worf, prepare to fire torpedoes!"
Thanks for this. You’re right Deep Space 9, is the best Star Trek series.
One of the themes you didn't comment on or summarize is the fact that this show dealt with spiritual-religious themes in such a fantastic way. It was more grey, not a black-and-white "science good religion bad" reduction. Sisko was BOTH starfleet captain AND emissary of the prophets. The most hardcore religious figures are portrayed as either blind to more subtle understandings (that one guy from the past who thought he was the emissary) or narcissistic and self-serving (Vedek/Kai Winn). In contrast the show never reduces the Prophets to scientifically understood-and-solved aliens. Brilliant. Not preachy or dismissive. Brilliant.
I didn’t watch it at first and now am in the 7th season on Netflix. This is a wonderful Trek show!
It’s not easy to get into lol. But it’s great once you do.
Damar was a real 'dark horse' as a character............he starts off as simple order taker and thug.................but ends the series as rebel,freedom fighter and momentary hero. Brilliantly acted.
Excellent assessment! In there defining others they stayed true to the essence of Star Trek. The producers and writers are the unsung heroes!
The DS9 crew may not have boldly gone where other crews had already gone before, but it was Star Trek at its heart!
I LOVED Deep Space Nine from Start to Finish. I agree with your spot-on analysis too, it was a well-written show with believable characters who most of us could identify with. I think the writers had something else in mind with this show, because they wanted to set it apart, make it more unique from the other shows, and this could explain why it appealed to a smaller fan-base.
When it came to humor, for me no two characters pulled it off better than Quark & Odo, particularly in Season 5 Episode Ascent, when they had the most time alone with each other (against their wishes of course), when Odo was tasked with taking Quark to some distant world, to spend Jail Time, but ended up accidentally crash-landing their runabout on some half-suitable planet!
The relationship between Miles O’Brien & Julian Bashir, etc.... the plots and schemes of the Dominion, Captain Sisko’s beef with Michael Eddington etc made for a really interesting show!!
I liked other Star Strek Spin Offs as well, TNG is great, but DS9 for me is one of the best SciFi Shows ever - not only in the Stra Trek Universe.
I honestly think without DS9’s serialised, complex storytelling with so many characters who are morally grey and could die at any time (Opaka, Bareill, Dax, Weyoun, Damar, Ziyal, Gowron, Sisko, Wyn, and Dukat to name a few), we wouldn’t have seen stuff like Game Of Thrones now. And DS9 did 170 odd episodes of it. Great stuff.
Technically, Dax is the symbiont, so he/she did not die. Only Jadzia the host died.
have you been watching razorfist the depths of DS9?
My favorite ST series! The development of many primary AND secondary characters on the show was amazing! Indeed, in many ways, the supporting cast outshone the main cast. E.g., Martok, Garak, Rom, Nog, Weyoun, Dumar, Dukat, etc. -- they all had great stories and I think the writers did an excellent job with exploring the facets of those memorable characters!
Dave, my wife and I have watched this show six times, now, and we are now on our seventh play-through (thanks to Me--2 TV). The show is powerful, dark, gritty and I was glad to see "O"Brien" and "Worf" develop their characters from the somewhat wooden people they were on TNG. I was quite happy that there was no "ship's counselor" who had the power to relieve a captain of command if she "sensed" something that bothered her. It goes without saying that two people who started out with TOS are going to love Star Trek. With the exception of several episodes of TNG, my reaction to that show was "Eh". I can only stomach seasons 1-3 of Voyager, but I liked Enterprise. I have never, and will never watch DIscovery. But Deep Space Nine? The best show in the series, in my opinion. By the way, all Curzon Dax has to do is smile to make my day brighter!
My favorite series! My husband introduced me to Star Trek, and I have watched them all, including the original series but this one is for
me.
Garak (spelling?) was a very (best in my opinion) interesting character and played very well by Andrew Robinson (who I remember from the Dirty Harry film).
As many others have asked, B5 next please.
I remember when I first saw Garak I thought to myself "where have I seen this actor before?" Drove me nuts for awhile. But one night my girlfriend at the time rented Dirty Harry from Blockbuster video. When I saw Andrew Robinson I literally shouted "That's where I know him from!!!!!" Lol
He was also in Hellraiser.
Garak (you spelled it correctly) was just incredible.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. This show turned out to be quite a gem and illustrates with conviction the genius effort of Rick Berman and the people he hired. I hope the rest of the industry will look back at the successes of this show and learn from it.
DS9 was riddled with politics (not all of it I agreed with), yet kept a fairly balance view amid the complexities of its characters and stories. Brilliant show.
Wow what a great review! I'm watching DS9 right now with my Dad. :) You are right, it has so much more depth to the characters than TNG, which I grew up watching.
DS9 is hands down my favourite series, I was very glad it got some respect in S3 of Picard.
Shame we probably won't see an HD release of DS9, but I suppose we were lucky to get TNG remastered when you consider the process involved.
Once Sisko shaved his head, that’s when the series blew up. Now I loved ToS, TNG, Enterprise and parts of Voyageur. The first couple of seasons of DS9 I was underwhelmed but looking back after watching it all, it’s some of the best Trek ever.
DS9 is the best sci-fi show and Star Trek series period.
Great critique Dave. DS9 is criminally underrated. it's my favourite show over all of them.