If you look closely at the footage you can see your endmill flex, get a shorter endmill if possible with your cutting dept. Also you have to much Z height, cut the legs down to a minimum for maximum rigidity. Just produced my first chips with mine that is mainly going to be used with plastics and aluminum.
I don't know if your calcualting your speeds and feeds or just trying to see what works. In the video the endmill is clearly deflecting. this can be coused by to mutch toolpressure(to agressive steppover etc.) or to high of a feedrate. if you want to calculate them here (www.sorotec.de/webshop/Datenblaetter/fraeser/schnittwerte.pdf) is a good source unfortunely its in German... Keep on using trochoidal milling its the best thing for low power mashines that suffer from lots of defection. And for the beginning i would go for the bigest endmill thats going to fit in your mashine(porbably 6mm) It helps to li9mit deflektion too The air blast is good. You can try and limit the pressure to 2 bar and it should work perfectly fine without blowing chipps everywhere. The nexed step up would be a minimum quantety lubrication systhem, but if your not tryting to cut aluminium all the time the air blast will work just as good another thing i can recomend is an online controler: With online i mean conected to an pc all the time. It alowes you to change feeds and speeds on the fly and manny more things Like homing your mashine and resuming work after you had a power loss or neede to paus or shut down the mashine etc. sorry for my poor englisch. i hope it helps you non the less
the advantage of torchiodal milling is a constant chip thickness. this means that the machine / spindle is loaded much less because the endmill only engages approx. 5-20%, instead of 50% when milling with full grooves. you can also use a single-flute endmill for better results. I recommend alcohol for cooling.
Excellent video. I like the detailed descriptions you give of what happened when you do things. That helps me a lot and ai do need help most of the time. 😁
Go look at any high speed CNC and they all use a ton of coolant, because cutter temp is the most important thing in getting clean cuts. Basically the faster the spindle, the more coolant you need to stop the alum melting and clumping to the cutter. Water/coolant needs a lot of energy to heat, air not so much, and with the high feed rates, large depths, and high spindle speeds they use, they need massive cooling. All you need is better cooling, or slowing things down so the friction doesn't create as much heat, or something that reduces the friction.
This is going to be a really good video by listening to the intro. I do not see the link to his other video where he had problems milling aluminum. I am new to this channel and I love it. He seems to be exactly in the sweet spot of what so many CNC hobbyist are looking to know and get experience from. And he has the best music, and the best fashion tips as well.
I would put some regulator or needle valve on that airblast to control it well. Imho it looks like that blast is too big. Also I'd say that you're taking way too small chips. One part of efficiency is that you should remove chip and that chip should be large enough to take heat out of the bit. Of course you can't use too much feed on MPCNC frame, that's for granted, but I have one with custom frame and haven't used it yet for too much, but I found out after short test that you still need a modest amount of feed to get good results. You're absolutely spot on with that, is it helical cut style, but you shouldn't move Z-axis on it. I believe that's a big mistake. At least CAM files I've done with Fusion haven't been with constant Z-movement and my results were ok. Only problem I had is that my custom parts had one critical error done by me and because of that I couldn't make my machine 100% square, which shows in bigger parts.
If I set the cut depth deeper than 2.25mm, the chips would clog the groove or hole that was being cut. If I made the groove wider, then the job would have taken 12+ hours to complete. I know the machine is capable of making deeper cuts. I ust haven't been able to dial it in.
I've had the same odd uncontrolled movement happen when taking code from estlcam. I've had it happen running multiples of the same parts so it must be dropping the info in the controller card somehow now and then. I do use Octoprint, not a micro sd. As far as machining alu, try an acid brush and some kerosene. will help keep the alu from sticking to your endmill. Some alu is stickier as well. 2024t0 is very sticky, by you can machine 6061 with less trouble.
For the most part I've been pretty happy with estlcam but I also had a strange issue with it. I forget the exact details but it was having an issue with the speed so I had to manually adjust it after the job had started. I have yet to try cutting aluminum with it yet so I appreciate your information in case I do in the future. Thanks for the video!
Yes I have had a few speed issues too. I had to manually fix the g-code to continue milling this part. Good thing I am using dual end stops so I could re-home the machine between tries.
honestly, I built the mpcnc as a "cheap" way of getting into cnc milling and to learn before dumping a bunch of money into a way more expensive setup. And it has served it's purpose.
Hi ,I made a CNC in MDF with linear bearing and normal threaded rod . It was not enough strong for aluminium so I bought a linear ball screw for all axes. Since I did , it increase the rigidity. Finally, now I Can cut aluminium but not such I would just, only few 0.1mm a path. It dépends cut speed of course. But it works ! Like you , it Take a long Time ..... Next improvement, change linear bearing by linear motion because I use a steel bar not stainless , cause flexibility. Here is my expérience , Hope it make a interest ! Thank you for vidéo !!
What style endmill did you use? Check with Niagara Cutter for recommendations. They have several designs that might work better with chip evacuation. Add a vacuum attachment for chip containment. Thanks, John
I have a diy CNC which is probably less capable than an MPCNC. What I do is mark out the holes (with a 90 degree bit) and outlines (again, with a 90 degree bit, shallow pass), and then use other tools to do the actual cutting. In your case, perhaps actually CNC out the holes, and mark the outline, then use the bandsaw/belt grinder. It would mean this part would take nowhere near 8 hours.
You should tell Ryan about this incident at V1 engineering. He should make Marlin so that it re-homes to the set 0 point when paused. Then it should re-home before resume too. It should just pause the gcode
Using „M18 S9999“ should keep the steppers powered in pause mode for 9999 seconds. Usually there is a default timeout set for a few minutes. I am using this for filament change on my 3d printer, as with a direct drive operating on the print head will likely move the head out of position.
What came to mind when Bob was describing the 'pause' was putting some small spring clamps on the belts. Not sure a person could beat the shift in position when selecting 'pause' and the steppers powering down, and the other problem is the screw drive on the Z-axis. Perhaps a rubber covered spring clamp placed on the screw? The G-Code fix by Mr. Meersmann is the better idea.
I have no first-hand experience on a MPCNC, or the firmware, but it makes absolutely no sense for the "Pause" command to disable the steppers! OK for a "Stop" command, but not for "Pause", where you are obviously intending to continue from that point after you have rectified whatever you "Paused" for!
Trochoidal milling is a really great way for cutting aluminium on less rigid CNC mills. I was able to go to a full depth of cut of 10mm on aluminium on my diy CNC mill. As long as you balance your speeds and feeds and have good chip clearing you can get pretty good results. Here is my latest run: ua-cam.com/video/VcnVPQokdX0/v-deo.html
8 HOURS OF MILLING?!?!?! Having looked at the finished piece, this would be a matter of minutes on a stiff/rigid CNC. I do have the same problems you hade with the aluminium piece even on MDF.... I am really depressed milling with this wobbly CNC...
As much as it is cool to make stuff with your MPCNC, you sort of demonstrated that some things just aren't suitable for small under powered machines, especially when the proper tools aren't made to work in small hobby stuff. Ergo the bandsaw did the same job in a fraction of the time. The other big indicator to me was the rigidity of set up, not enough for those scale jobs, unless you did as did, and do tiny cuts over way too long, so back to horses for courses. It also seems the cam package not really up to that scale of job. Most makers on web seem to use pro packages, even on the smaller timber based CNC machines. I suspect they would have abilities to remember stops and re starts,
With all due respect, and much respect is due, ... To cut a square piece of aluminum with rounded corners and some holes with countersinks, and take 8 hours to do it, ... that is more like humiliation, than fabrication. I can't bear to see you suffer that much. Why not use the CNC to mark the outline of the part with a small end mill doing a super shallow cut, and to mark the holes using a V-bit so they are exact, as drill bits tend to slide around without a starting hole, and then just take the part over to a metal cutting chop saw, and then drill the holes on a drill press, or using the CNC, but use drills instead of an end mill bit. Bottomline is milling (using end mills) sucks, while cutting (with a saw), and drilling using drill bits does not suck near as bad. I cannot imagine watching a maching for 8 hours making all that horrendous noise. You are at risk of going postal using that method. We might see you on the nightly news. ...oh yeah, no one watches the news anymore, but still. Drills and saws good, milling bits bad. Clean up the edges with the bench belt sander, and you are done. Eight hours? ugh... Making stuff needs to be fun and easy and cool, and not about who can withstand the most misery. There's got to be a better way. But I did like the circular tool path cutting motion, not just on X and Y but on the Z axis as well. That part was cool. I also like how you showed that the chip blower blew chips everywhere. As you know, your machine needs a vacuum system on it to help mitigate that problem some. Thanks. Great video as usual. You make great videos. Stay safe.
Are you cutting aluminum with your MPCNC? If so, I'd love to hear how you are doing it.
If you look closely at the footage you can see your endmill flex, get a shorter endmill if possible with your cutting dept.
Also you have to much Z height, cut the legs down to a minimum for maximum rigidity.
Just produced my first chips with mine that is mainly going to be used with plastics and aluminum.
I cut aluminum on my printed CNC (check my channel if you want), but that's not the "official" MPCNC so i dont know if you care about that ahah
#Johan if I used a shorter but, I wouldn't have been able to cut all the way through the work piece.
#Create for Curiosity I will check it out.
I don't know if your calcualting your speeds and feeds or just trying to see what works.
In the video the endmill is clearly deflecting. this can be coused by to mutch toolpressure(to agressive steppover etc.) or to high of a feedrate.
if you want to calculate them here (www.sorotec.de/webshop/Datenblaetter/fraeser/schnittwerte.pdf) is a good source unfortunely its in German...
Keep on using trochoidal milling its the best thing for low power mashines that suffer from lots of defection.
And for the beginning i would go for the bigest endmill thats going to fit in your mashine(porbably 6mm) It helps to li9mit deflektion too
The air blast is good. You can try and limit the pressure to 2 bar and it should work perfectly fine without blowing chipps everywhere.
The nexed step up would be a minimum quantety lubrication systhem, but if your not tryting to cut aluminium all the time the air blast will work just as good
another thing i can recomend is an online controler:
With online i mean conected to an pc all the time. It alowes you to change feeds and speeds on the fly and manny more things Like homing your mashine and resuming work after you had a power loss or neede to paus or shut down the mashine etc.
sorry for my poor englisch. i hope it helps you non the less
the advantage of torchiodal milling is a constant chip thickness. this means that the machine / spindle is loaded much less because the endmill only engages approx. 5-20%, instead of 50% when milling with full grooves.
you can also use a single-flute endmill for better results. I recommend alcohol for cooling.
Excellent video. I like the detailed descriptions you give of what happened when you do things. That helps me a lot and ai do need help most of the time. 😁
Glad it was helpful!
Go look at any high speed CNC and they all use a ton of coolant, because cutter temp is the most important thing in getting clean cuts. Basically the faster the spindle, the more coolant you need to stop the alum melting and clumping to the cutter. Water/coolant needs a lot of energy to heat, air not so much, and with the high feed rates, large depths, and high spindle speeds they use, they need massive cooling. All you need is better cooling, or slowing things down so the friction doesn't create as much heat, or something that reduces the friction.
This is going to be a really good video by listening to the intro. I do not see the link to his other video where he had problems milling aluminum. I am new to this channel and I love it. He seems to be exactly in the sweet spot of what so many CNC hobbyist are looking to know and get experience from. And he has the best music, and the best fashion tips as well.
Good to see you Bob
Lot's of good i nfo in this video, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Can I ask what printer do you use and recommend? Thank you
I would put some regulator or needle valve on that airblast to control it well. Imho it looks like that blast is too big. Also I'd say that you're taking way too small chips. One part of efficiency is that you should remove chip and that chip should be large enough to take heat out of the bit. Of course you can't use too much feed on MPCNC frame, that's for granted, but I have one with custom frame and haven't used it yet for too much, but I found out after short test that you still need a modest amount of feed to get good results. You're absolutely spot on with that, is it helical cut style, but you shouldn't move Z-axis on it. I believe that's a big mistake. At least CAM files I've done with Fusion haven't been with constant Z-movement and my results were ok. Only problem I had is that my custom parts had one critical error done by me and because of that I couldn't make my machine 100% square, which shows in bigger parts.
If I set the cut depth deeper than 2.25mm, the chips would clog the groove or hole that was being cut. If I made the groove wider, then the job would have taken 12+ hours to complete. I know the machine is capable of making deeper cuts. I ust haven't been able to dial it in.
I've had the same odd uncontrolled movement happen when taking code from estlcam. I've had it happen running multiples of the same parts so it must be dropping the info in the controller card somehow now and then. I do use Octoprint, not a micro sd. As far as machining alu, try an acid brush and some kerosene. will help keep the alu from sticking to your endmill. Some alu is stickier as well. 2024t0 is very sticky, by you can machine 6061 with less trouble.
I was using 6061. Tanks for your input.
For the most part I've been pretty happy with estlcam but I also had a strange issue with it. I forget the exact details but it was having an issue with the speed so I had to manually adjust it after the job had started. I have yet to try cutting aluminum with it yet so I appreciate your information in case I do in the future. Thanks for the video!
Yes I have had a few speed issues too. I had to manually fix the g-code to continue milling this part. Good thing I am using dual end stops so I could re-home the machine between tries.
honestly, I built the mpcnc as a "cheap" way of getting into cnc milling and to learn before dumping a bunch of money into a way more expensive setup. And it has served it's purpose.
Hi ,I made a CNC in MDF with linear bearing and normal threaded rod .
It was not enough strong for aluminium so I bought a linear ball screw for all axes. Since I did , it increase the rigidity.
Finally, now I Can cut aluminium but not such I would just, only few 0.1mm a path. It dépends cut speed of course.
But it works ! Like you , it Take a long Time .....
Next improvement, change linear bearing by linear motion because I use a steel bar not stainless , cause flexibility.
Here is my expérience , Hope it make a interest ! Thank you for vidéo !!
In case you haven't found out, you can configure marlin to hold the steppers.
have you set-up the air to directly blast the chips into the vac port?
What style endmill did you use?
Check with Niagara Cutter for recommendations.
They have several designs that might work better with chip evacuation.
Add a vacuum attachment for chip containment.
Thanks,
John
It was a single flute end mill made specifically for aluminum.
Making Stuff
I’m about to embark on my own CNC build. I need one desperately.
What tolerances can you get?
nice video, thanks. we have made lot's of toolbox similar to the yellow toolbox which behind you. not very tight tolerance for this kind of molds.
That tool box is 27 years old.
@@MakingStuff OMG,27 years old! that's an antique.
I have a diy CNC which is probably less capable than an MPCNC. What I do is mark out the holes (with a 90 degree bit) and outlines (again, with a 90 degree bit, shallow pass), and then use other tools to do the actual cutting. In your case, perhaps actually CNC out the holes, and mark the outline, then use the bandsaw/belt grinder. It would mean this part would take nowhere near 8 hours.
you are my hero, great job !!!!
Man, I find the mail getting even worse.
You should tell Ryan about this incident at V1 engineering. He should make Marlin so that it re-homes to the set 0 point when paused. Then it should re-home before resume too. It should just pause the gcode
Thank you for sharing your experience!
My pleasure!
WD-40. Shake it up b/c it settles. It works wonders in aluminum and will help prevent the bit from gumming up.
Any chance you could share the 3D file for the mount?
They are available on Patreon.com to to all Maker+ level patreons.
终于更新了,谢谢老师
如果你对CNC或者模具，加工感兴趣的话，可以看看我的频道哦。谢谢。
Using „M18 S9999“ should keep the steppers powered in pause mode for 9999 seconds. Usually there is a default timeout set for a few minutes. I am using this for filament change on my 3d printer, as with a direct drive operating on the print head will likely move the head out of position.
What came to mind when Bob was describing the 'pause' was putting some small spring clamps on the belts. Not sure a person could beat the shift in position when selecting 'pause' and the steppers powering down, and the other problem is the screw drive on the Z-axis. Perhaps a rubber covered spring clamp placed on the screw? The G-Code fix by Mr. Meersmann is the better idea.
Good to know, thanks for sharing. I will try it.
I have no first-hand experience on a MPCNC, or the firmware, but it makes absolutely no sense for the "Pause" command to disable the steppers! OK for a "Stop" command, but not for "Pause", where you are obviously intending to continue from that point after you have rectified whatever you "Paused" for!
Nice
Try single flute or 2 flute end mill seem to work better
I was using a single flute end mill.
Trochoidal milling is a really great way for cutting aluminium on less rigid CNC mills.
I was able to go to a full depth of cut of 10mm on aluminium on my diy CNC mill. As long as you balance your speeds and feeds and have good chip clearing you can get pretty good results.
Here is my latest run: ua-cam.com/video/VcnVPQokdX0/v-deo.html
8 HOURS OF MILLING?!?!?! Having looked at the finished piece, this would be a matter of minutes on a stiff/rigid CNC. I do have the same problems you hade with the aluminium piece even on MDF.... I am really depressed milling with this wobbly CNC...
Yeah, but the only thing I had on hand was a wobbly MPCNC so I used it.
As much as it is cool to make stuff with your MPCNC, you sort of demonstrated that some things just aren't suitable for small under powered machines, especially when the proper tools aren't made to work in small hobby stuff. Ergo the bandsaw did the same job in a fraction of the time. The other big indicator to me was the rigidity of set up, not enough for those scale jobs, unless you did as did, and do tiny cuts over way too long, so back to horses for courses. It also seems the cam package not really up to that scale of job. Most makers on web seem to use pro packages, even on the smaller timber based CNC machines. I suspect they would have abilities to remember stops and re starts,
You need a shorter tool stickout.
With all due respect, and much respect is due, ... To cut a square piece of aluminum with rounded corners and some holes with countersinks, and take 8 hours to do it, ... that is more like humiliation, than fabrication. I can't bear to see you suffer that much. Why not use the CNC to mark the outline of the part with a small end mill doing a super shallow cut, and to mark the holes using a V-bit so they are exact, as drill bits tend to slide around without a starting hole, and then just take the part over to a metal cutting chop saw, and then drill the holes on a drill press, or using the CNC, but use drills instead of an end mill bit. Bottomline is milling (using end mills) sucks, while cutting (with a saw), and drilling using drill bits does not suck near as bad. I cannot imagine watching a maching for 8 hours making all that horrendous noise. You are at risk of going postal using that method. We might see you on the nightly news. ...oh yeah, no one watches the news anymore, but still. Drills and saws good, milling bits bad. Clean up the edges with the bench belt sander, and you are done. Eight hours? ugh... Making stuff needs to be fun and easy and cool, and not about who can withstand the most misery. There's got to be a better way. But I did like the circular tool path cutting motion, not just on X and Y but on the Z axis as well. That part was cool. I also like how you showed that the chip blower blew chips everywhere. As you know, your machine needs a vacuum system on it to help mitigate that problem some. Thanks. Great video as usual. You make great videos. Stay safe.