Who would you back to come out on top in a head to head battle for Middle Earth? Morgoth with his vast powerful armies, or Sauron, the cunning tactician…?
Tough question....Morgoth never entered battles. He poured his power to shape the world, make dragons and beasts. All the balrogs would fight by his side. Sauron, knowing this would have to pretend to be an ally while only using orcs to stop Morgoth. That would be futile. My guess is the only way sauron could win would be to wait till morgoth spends most of his power making evil things, then assassinate morgoth himself while alone, and blame it on the Valor.
He can't. No one can. No one has the rights to anything other than The hobbit and lotr. All other work covering the first age and before can't be adapted.
@@chrisi621 i thought so, such a shame, from Eru and the creation of Valar - Ainur, to The Elves/Men and the Valar taking on Morgoth in the War of Wrath, I’d say the cinematic experience would be such that could match what we had the pleasure of experiencing with The Lord of the Rings and potentially better.
Does anyone know why the rights to "The Silmarillion" were never and won't be granted? I'm just curious why they sell the rights to The LotR to just about anybody, but no one is allowed to touch The Silmarillion.
@@SWOTHDRA lol what? sauron is saruman level?? you realize that Maiar's powers varied GREATLY right? Being a Maiar doesn't make you equal to all the others. Sauron was said to be by far one of the strongest of all the Maiar.
@@SWOTHDRA Weel, they were both Maiar. But Sauron had more power in his pinky than Saruman had in his whole body. Saruman the white could not even stand against Gandalf the white. And even Gandalf the white would have no chance against Sauron at the top of his might.
@@DanB-vc7gu Why not? They must only chose someone who will do a worthy adaptation. But then again they were dumb enough to approve the "Rings of Power". I think only money talks here. If someone offers them enough, they will give the rights.
@@EldenLord. Nope, it’s different case altogether. Compared to the first age (Morgoth’s time), the second age (rings of power) should have been MUCH easier to adapt. Tolkien’s writings of the first age are way harder to follow so much harder to adapt. The Tolkien estate have acknowledged this and will likely not grant anyone the rights anytime soon. I guess they’d probably like to keep something to themselves as well
@@EldenLord. The Estate got 250 Million USD from Amazon and that's only for the Appendices of The Silmarillion which talks about a limited portion of the Second Age. Imagine how much money would an entity needs to shelve to get the rights to the three greatest stories of Middle-Earth (Beren and Luthien, The Children of Hurin, The Fall of Gondolin), and a detailed story of the First Age from the whole Silmarillion. Maybe around 10 Billion? lol
I feel like Morgoth is more evil because of his intentions. As to where Sauron just wanted to see out his vision of a world with perfect order, it still came from a good place as he thought that was the best option for everyone. Morgoth on the other hand, just wanted to fucking destroy everything
Destroying everything because Eru is obviously a dictator is unquestionably better than wanting to be a dictator in your own right to “make things better”.
Morgoth was motivated by sheer hate and the want to undo everything. He was chaos personified. Sauron was motivated be a need for the world to be “orderly” according to his own twisted vision. He didn’t want to just destroy everything the way Morgoth did. They were both *EVIL* but Morgoth ranks higher on the “evil” scale when compared to Sauron 🤷🏻♀️
It could depend on what someone finds more evil. Morgoth wanted the world to burn. But, that could be considered more merciful than Sauron wanting to subjugated and dominate for all time. There is some merit to quick death being better than life of brutal misery.
I like to think Morgoth warped Sauron's psyche into the evil entity that we know from LotR. Sauron is sort of a victim just like all the "evil" things that Morgoth corrupted. I feel like Sauron would just be your typical, orderly control freak if Morgoth didn't corrupt him.
dont forget, Morgoth had an army of Balrogs and Dragons, which he created himself. Imagine if the Balrog had gotten the One Ring from Frodo. Even he would have easily out powered Sauron with his own Ring. Ungoliant was more evil and powerful, tho.
@@sr3821 Morgoth is superior to Sauron in every possible way. ALL evil stems from Him. Even the weakest version of Morgoth is stronger than the strongest version of Sauron..... There's a line in Silmarillion "...But in the years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice."
Sauron only served Morgoth out of wish for power, not out of fealty and loyalty he was first attracted to him because of his power, but Morgoth ends was never of his. Sauron only served as long as he was around, the moment Morgoth was removed from the equation it didn’t take long before he pursued his own ends. This ends might have been influenced by Morgoth will he inflicted on the world, but he didn’t serve him in second and third age in the true meaning of the word. He used Morgoth name only to achieve his own goals not really because he served him at that point. He did not object to the world or how it looked, he had no standing issues with the creation nor the children in it. The deepest wish within him was to control and coordinate it, as this was how he were created by iluvitar , he never abandoned his purpose it just got corrected so it took the form of evil rather than that of good. Sauron in fact disliked chaos, anarchy, friction and destruction all what Morgoth stood for. He even repented his actions under Morgoth when he was defeated he was demanded back for the verdict of Manwë but out of shame and humiliation he remained and returned back to evil ways. So he where never the true evil at that point, it where something that where allowed to grow.
That is a misconception Sauron was loyal to Morgoth in the beginning, but I'm not sure he would feel the same in the event of Morgoth's return. During the events surrounding the fall of Numenor, Sauron gradually shifted his influence over men from having them worship Morgoth, to having them worship himself. In fact, it's heavily implied that this was his strategy the entire time. I believe that Sauron emulated his master in all that he did, including his insatiable lust for PERSONAL power. This quote makes it clear that Sauron was only loyal to Morgoth during the First Age, and that after the First Age, Sauron no longer adored Morgoth. ….Melkor, whom in the beginning he [Sauron] had adored. HOME, Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed When Sauron himself took up the mantle of the Dark lord during Second Age he had forsook his loyalty to Morgoth, and Morgoth was of no concern to him anymore. The only reason Sauron built a temple in worship of Morgoth was because he was a prisoner in Númenor and thus was hardly in a position to present himself as a deity. (Tolkien's letters) Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants; if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power. (Morgoth's Ring ) Sauron wanted to be worshiped and seen as a God; not as a loyal servant of a greater power. He used Morgoth's name for his own gains and to progress his self-centered motives. (Tolkien, J. R. R. The History of Middle-Earth X: Morgoth’s Ring) He[Sauron] probably deluded himself with the notion that the Valar (including Melkor) having failed, Eru had simply abandoned Eä, or at any rate Arda, and would not concern himself with it any more. When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to be Morgoth returned. (Tolkien-Letter 183)
Not till the end no. He used Morgoth's name as a tool because he was known as an incredibly powerful force from the previous wars. He used the promise of his power and immortality to manipulate Numinor but he at no point actually wanted Morgoth to come back and take over as the Dark Lord when he was trying to be the same thing.
@@mikni4069dude souron was very loyal to morgoth but he saw that morgoth wanted to destroy evryting that is life coz morgoth couldn’t create life him self coz he was higher being then souron or the other wizards
Not really. The Blitz was primarily effective because it meticulously planned and had specific strategic goals. The idea wasn’t to throw everything at the enemy front line. Rather, the idea was to identify the weakest points along a line and target it with overwhelming force, break thru and advance to critical strategic points behind the enemy line before serious counter measures could be enacted.
I loved this video! Being fairly young (25YO) I grew up with two older brothers that loved Lord Of The Ring but have never really tried to discover the lore behind the original movies until the show "Rings of Power" which opened so many questions. I do find it interesting how powerful Morgoth is but how much weaker his inability to predict and build a plan makes him. I would love for his lore to be studied even more! Thank you for this incredible video!
Another solid video. I like how you compared and contrasted the ethos of each villain. Morgoth seems to be akin to the impetuous nature of a teenager who lashes out with reckless abandon and wants to see the world, burn while Sauron, being more cunning and strategic, wants to subjugate all forms of life to his will. I wonder if Sauron had been imbued with the same level of power as Morgoth, and given his strategic way of thinking, could he have succeeded in achieving his ultimate goal?
If Sauron been a Valar he would been a far bigger problem as he only wanted control and used others in cunning ways to get there. However the question is would he ever turn evil, I honestly don’t think he would. it was Morgoth that corrupted him into the evil being, that would never have happened if he was his almost equal, he would have been an enemy of Morgoth not an ally. Even if power were reversed, I doubt he would have turned evil he needed someone to corrupt him and speak the words in his ears, without Morgoth that was never going to happen on its own.
Well said and yeah, I think a being imbued with the chaos of Morgoth and the strategy and desire of Sauron would have bested all the Maiar in Middle Earth. That's why the Valar sent 5 Maiar (each equal in power to Sauron) to Middle Earth exactly because of the reason you bring up. The Valar didn't know if Sauron was as calculating as he was AND chaotic as Morgoth. Better send 5 gangsters to shut him down. Amazing that it only took 1 Maiar and a few hobbits to do the job. Edit: And a new King of course. They needed him as well.
Morgoth was literally the source of all corruption in creation, including Sauron’s from when he was a Maiar aswell as every shadow & ounce of depravity in middle earth, which is why middle earth was described as ‘Morgoths Ring’ The answer is clear
A lot of people don’t realize the War with Morgoth was extremely and I mean *EXTREMELY* more violent, longer, and wiped out many nations and their people! War of the Silmarils was just terrifying. All out war which shook the lands and waters alike.
This was a great video accept for the description the Valar as 'gods'. They seem more like archangels with Morgoth being stand in for Lucifer, the angel that fell due to his hurt pride.
I LOVE the artwork in this video, but the question is silly. Newbies to Tolkien's world who have maybe read the LOTR and The Hobbit (and/or watched the movies) are prone to be much more familiar with Sauron, and probably more likely to think of him as the ultimate evil, but anyone who has actually READ the Silmarillion would know that Melkor/Morgoth is on a different level entirely. Sauron was a Maiar, of the same order of existence as Gandalf and Saruman, whereas Morgoth was not only a VALAR, but, in Tolkien's words " the mightiest of all the Valar" as evidenced by the fact that all of the other Valar had to combine their forces just to stop him. It's not a close comparison.
This is true, however the gap between Morgoth and Sauron would be narrower. Morgoth used up much of his native power in the marring of Arda. After the initial War of the Powers, when Melkor is defeated the first time, Manwe notes that Melkor's stature is now less than his own. Sauron did similar things, such as his ring making, but far less often and far smaller in scale. Still, I would agree that Morgoth>Sauron in final analysis, if only due to the degree of evil.
@@99Kresnik They were only able to beat Melkor after thousands years of stalemate and Melkor using up his powers to disrupt Arda's creation, from the Ainulindale to the Marring of Arda, thus giving Tulkas and the Ainur the opportunity to beat him. The guy is tough.
Depends when in the timeline you’re talking. At the beginning of Arda Morgoth was easily the most powerful being who was only second to Eru himself in terms of power. However Morgoth used pretty much all of his power on creating and corrupting his servants and armies as well as the land itself. Towards the end of the war of Wrath, Morgoth became extremely weak and would’ve been surpassed by Sauron due to Sauron not losing any of his power.
Sauron wanted everybody in line, squared up and subservient to him but basically alive and functioning... Morgoth just wanted to kill everything and everybody...
Morgoth was a Morgoth. Pure evil with no doubt how to fight, exterminate and at least how to determine and execute his decisions in any moment. With long live agresion Sauron has learned how to survive and to give a hope to all living beings. Balrogs anyway belong to Morgoth, which Sauron can only Dreams about it. Morgoth was a pure evil person, while Marion has learned a lesson from him. Simple Morgoth was much more evil, while Sauron was smarter due to his Master mistakes. He was learnining through a time.
From Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion, included in Morgoth's Ring: Melkor 'incarnated' himself (as Morgoth) permanently. He did this so as to control the hröa, the 'flesh' or physical matter, of Arda. He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster, and more perilous, procedure, though of similar sort to the operations of Sauron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all 'matter' was likely to have a 'Melkor ingredient', and those who had bodies, nourished by the hröa of Arda, had as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect upon their spirits. But in this way Morgoth lost (or exchanged, or transmuted) the greater part of his original 'angelic' powers, of mind and spirit, while gaining a terrible grip upon the physical world. For this reason he had to be fought, mainly by physical force, and enormous material ruin was a probable consequence of any direct combat with him, victorious or otherwise. This is the chief explanation of the constant reluctance of the Valar to come into open battle against Morgoth. Manwë's task and problem was much more difficult than Gandalf's. Sauron's, relatively smaller, power was concentrated; Morgoth's vast power was disseminated. The whole of 'Middle-earth' was Morgoth's Ring, though temporarily his attention was mainly upon the North-west. Unless swiftly successful, War against him might well end in reducing all Middle-earth to chaos, possibly even all Arda. It is easy to say: 'It was the task and function of the Elder King to govern Arda and make it possible for the Children of Eru to live in it unmolested.' But the dilemma of the Valar was this: Arda could only be liberated by a physical battle; but a probable result of such a battle was the irretrievable ruin of Arda. Moreover, the final eradication of Sauron (as a power directing evil) was achievable by the destruction of the Ring. No such eradication of Morgoth was possible, since this required the complete disintegration of the 'matter' of Arda. Sauron's power was not (for example) in gold as such, but in a particular form or shape made of a particular portion of total gold. Morgoth's power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such 'magic' and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)
I'd say Morgoth would be more evil. He rebelled against Eru and wanted to destroy and corrupt as much as he could out of spite to Eru. Very similar to real world Satan. Sauron moreso wanted to be in charge of it all. Regardless I think we could all agree Morgoth is waaay more powerful.
According g to a direct quote from JRR Tolkien, in the books he states “Sauron was as close to the wholly embodiment of evils will as is possible” meaning there was no more evil being than Sauron, so he and Morgoth were likely just as evil as each other, Morgoth was just chaotic evil while Sauron was controlled evil
Morgoth wanted to destroy everything sauron did not so on the ranks of evil morgoth is depicted and stated to be of an higher evil and no that's not an interpretation that's literally what Tolkien intended.
@@TheemptythroneistakenYes Morgoths existence and Eru not extinguishing Morgoth without a bloody war just doesn't sit right. Sauron existence and Eru only sending advisors to help humans whiles calling the Elves away was a test. A referendum on Eru's decision to give human's free will at the expense of order. I believe Eru would have allowed Sauron to rule Middle Earth for age until "worthy and righteous humans" called for mercy and help overthrowing Sauron. Eru would have never allowed Morgoth to rule or destroy 90% of all creation. That is why I consider Morgoth more evil. Morgoth is on a different level that even Satan featured in Christian tradition and more powerful in a sense. Morgoth was so powerful and evil that his existence is seal off in an oblivion that can't interact with any realm with living beings or immortals. Defeated disembodied Sauron of the 4th age is in a similar predicament but from my understanding his spirit can walk middle earth but not interact with it. Maybe evil beings can still feel his evil auroa when he is near magnifying their evil feeling in unfocused and random ways.
For the question of who was more worst, It is have to be Morgoth, on all counts. Which leaves us with 'Who was the Best'. And in this 'Brain vs Muscle' scenario here, We would all have to go with the strategic and chaotic reign of Sauron, Who infiltraded into the realms of Elves and Men and planted seeds to destroy them from within.
Morgoth was disturbed Iluvatar during songs of creation. So he is one of most evil Ainur. Sauron was hes puppet. Morgoth had army of Balrogs, that was destroyed by strongest Ainurs. Sauron didn't even dream to have even 1 Balrog in hes team.
Basic answer is Melkor. Melkor was so enraged by not having the secret fire he set out to corrupt everything made by Eru Illuvitar. Whereas Sauron being a Maiar of Aule wanted Regimentation and order of the world and wanted dominion over all of it.
Morgoth created the evil everywhere twisting things to his will, but Sauron wants to control everything, non of the Valar and the other races wanted him to control, he deceived them, so he used Morgoth evil leftovers only which that we saw in the movie, imagine if Morgoth and Sauron were together in the movie 😱.
Clearly, Morgoth is more evil. His power is comparable to Manwe, the strongest of the Valar, who is also his brother. Sauron is nothing compared to the Valar. Morgoth is basically the god of evil/chaos. he brought chaos to Arda/ Middle Earth. On a side note, Morgoth feared Varda the most, even above the strongest of his kin, Manwe. Varda is the Queen of Light, the Queen of the Stars. Varda and Manwe are archenemies. I would love to see them fight lol.
Of the greater evils: Lucifernian (will to power, rebellion) -> Ahrimanaic (desire for total control and conformity, Sauron) -> Sorathic (evil for its own sake, desire to unmake all things and return to formless chaos) Morgoth is close to the last, but excludes himself from being unmade.
Sauron, while undoubtedly evil, had the end goal of order and preservation. Morgoth on the other hand had the end goal of chaos and destruction. In the alignment system Sauron’s lawful evil and Morgoth’s chaotic evil.
It took the combined might of all the valar to defeat morgoth and even then they were close to being defeated themselves! Morgoth is literally the reason all evil even exists in the world of middle earth since it was he who was the one who added that little detail within the song of creation his evil is so great that it is said his being is not dead but trapped in the void until dagor dagorath (The end of everything) for which he will be the harbinger of that destruction.
So essentially, Morgoth (aka Melkor) was the more powerful of these two dark lords, but Sauron was far more cunning and strategic. Morgoth only cared about bloodshed and destruction, while Sauron carefully planned to ultimately rule the planet. Both Melkor and Sauron were members of the Ainur created by Eru, Melkor being a Valar and Sauron a Maiar. Eru warned all the Ainur that once they entered the universe, they could never return to the Timeless Halls until the universe naturally concluded. The Ainur appeared to have entered the universe with a limited amount of power, and would become unable to interact with the living world should they use it all up. Although the Ainur (Valar and Maiar alike) can never truly die, they can lose their ability to have a physical presence in the world. This happened to Sauron upon the destruction of the One Ring, Saruman when he was "killed" by that man from Rohan, and in a way to Melkor when he was ultimately defeated by the other Valar. They all suffered a fate worse than death since they were essentially diminished to powerless, formless, untouchable and invisible ghosts that can do nothing but wonder until the end of time,
Is that even a question? Morgoth made Sauron into the evil being, without Morgoth there would be no Sauron… Sauron evil all stem from Morgoth and he was mainly pursued by his obsession with order and control and for thousands of years Sauron could still take on a fair form one of the reasons why Morgoth was interested in him. while Sauron where corrupted he was not pure evil until later on. Morgoth wants to corrupt and destroy everything created by the Valar and Eru himself, he despises and envied the gift given to the children and what was created by them and the other Valars. He wanted to possess them, ultimately create a world in his own image, which was anarchy, largely he wanted to replace iluvatar himself. Sauron evil was just of far less magnitude. Sauron did not hate the children, he multiple times used them to his own end to create a world of order and to gain power. He had no wish to corrupt or to destroy only to control and create a world of order, basically a tyrant. Sauron never had the all consumed hate for iluvatar children that Morgoth had, he just wanted to be their master, to control them, this was why he made the rings of power. It was first when he figured out he could never control the elves and they went against him in the last alliance he started to truly hate them, but never to the extent Morgoth did. Their end could not possibly be any more different
False. So, according to JRR Tolkien himself, “Sauron was only less evil than Morgoth in that for a while, he served someone other than himself.” And “Sauron was as close to the wholly embodiment of evils will as Is possible”
@@xsoundofsil3nc3x96 Morgoth is the equivalent of Satan in Christianity or in norse mythology Loki, both of which he is inspired by. There is no equivalent or worse evil in Tolkien universe as he is the creator of evil, without him there would been no Sauron, he would have remained Mairon a servant of Aulè Sauron is mainly just a tyrant like the mythical creature he is inspired by Balor, on top there clear reference to the serpent of eden, Mephistopheles and other devil like figures and tyrant of his time. He is a lesser power and evil, it is quite easy to understand from the source material, he only became because of two things he where corrupted by Morgoth and after he was defeated a power vacuum arose that he used to gain power. He even repented after Morgoth final defeat at the end of first age, at that point he was not pure evil but a corrupted Maia mainly that liked the power he had gained. But most of all things he liked order and domination So it’s a different type of evil, an evil more like found in men more than that pure evil described in Morgoth
@@mikni4069 according to the writer of the books, the creator of the series, the one who thought up of all of this stuff, Sauron and Morgoth were equally evil, they were both “The Devil”, but embodied different types of evil. Morgoth represented destruction and hate, Sauron embodied tyranny and deceit. Both were the physical embodiment of evil, just two different kinds of evil
@@xsoundofsil3nc3x96 And he also wrote he were a lesser evil a couple of times, there many contradictory statements made by Tolkien in his unfinished work… He said his work wasn’t an allegory but then some part was.. The amount of times he contradicted and changed his mind is well known.
💯. I don't see the point of comparing them. Morgoth is evil in itself. As long as he still exists, evil will always find a way. Without Morgoth, there'd be no Sauron, Balrogs, Ungoliant, Dark forests, Trolls, Orcs and there would be no divide between the Blessed realm and middle earth. It would all be harmony, for the Ainur, all the children of Illuvatar, the children of Aüle, all the lights of Varda, all the creatures and plants of Kementari and Nienna would have never shed a single tear for Arda.
2:16 Morgoth should have just sent a werewolf to guard his mushrooms from rabbits, it seems beneath a Dark Lord's attention. Rabbits don't even eat mushrooms. Sauron never wasted time with mushrooms. I assume Mushrooms symbolize Death and Decay
Morgoth- Chaotic Evil: wanted to corrupt and destroy Eru’s creations Sauron- Lawful Evil: wanted to create a world controlled solely by him. Morgoth is more like Genghis Khan/ Tamerlane Sauron is like Stalin/ Mao/ some aspects of mustache man
Almost good comparisson, but Tamerlan more like Sauron: he created the Timurid Empire, he made Samarkand the world capital of knowledge by capturing the scientists and scholars from the cities he captured and moved them to Sanarkand, and he created schools for them to teach. One side he was bloodthirthty cruel dictator, but on the other he created an Empire where science flourished. So Tamerlane more Sauron than Morgoth.
Sauron also acted on malice and revenge, though less than Morgoth. Sauron hated the Numenoreans and when taken captive by them he sought to corrupt and ruin their society. He went to the extreme of sending them to attack Valinor causing Eru to destroy Numenore, killing Sauron in the process. Sauron went overboard due to his malice and got himself killed.
Both of them are saving their power in Floppy Disk And Diskette thats why when their precious item destroy both of them destroy also. The Next darklord should use cloud server or even VPS 😅
Morgoths main desire was to warp, twist and dominate wholly. He wanted to twist races physically and mentally for pleasure. He taught sauron what evil was
I always felt they were equally evil just different in how destructive they were. *edit* With that being said I feel like Sauron would come up short against Morgoth but ultimately win utilizing his leadership/plans to orchestrate chaos as he does.
The one above all who created them, created Morgoth to do what he did. and Sauron... The ring was meant to pass to bilbo, so Melkor was meant to attack middle earth, was meant to lose, and sauron was meant to take over. Create the ring, lose the ring, the ring passes to gollum by intent, passes to Bilbo as he was meant to have it. And Thus frodo was meant to be the ring bearer and Gollum was meant to overpower frodo at the end and fall in the fires of mount doom, destroying the ring and sauron... So sauron was meant to die. And middle earth was meant to be inherited by humanity. Who eventually created black magic cults who became evil. ( Today's world is rulled by secret cults. Occultic symbols. etc... ) The original earth for middle earth was flat with an encirircling sea, in the shape of the ALL seeing eye, freeze water and you get ice, so the encircling sea is the icewall. Game of thrones, had an icewall... Middle earth is changed and seas consume most of westren middle earth... It became a planet. Emerald tablets of thoth has a chapter where god changes the earth so that the ocean could consume Atlantis... Tolkien acted as someone who possessed secret knowledge which he used to build his stories. After sauron, humanity inherits middle earth... and this becomes modern civilization... Think about it.
This is a strange question. The very concept of evil in this mythos IS Morgoth. Similar to Christianity/Judaism/Islam with how evil IS Satan/Lucifer. The term evil is basically anything in opposition of the supreme God. In Tolkien's mythos, Eru is the supreme God. Morgoth is evil because he is in opposition of Eru's vision. Eru's vision if "good". Anything else is evil. Though I suppose there is some wiggle room there with how the Dwarves came about. But that's a deeper conversation regarding free-will of the Valar or really anything else, similar to real life Abrahamic religions. If anything other than God's vision is evil, then it's absurd to expect creatures made by an omnipotent being and given free-will to somehow perfectly align with that vision. So, in a sense, one could argue that the concept of evil is irrelevant. But anyways... Clearly the one that is the embodiment of the entire concept of evil, is the most evil. My interpretation of Sauron is that he isn't so much evil as he is lustful for power and control. He doesn't want to annihilate Middle Earth. He wants to dominate it and rule over the people. He's like a control freak that desires order which isn't inherently bad. But Morgoth, because he IS evil, was able to warp Sauron's desires and nature into the evil entity we know from LotR.
Morgoth was enormously more powerful. Sauron had to be crafty and hidden like a sleaze bag. At least with Morgoth, he would walk right up to you with a backhand slap readied.
I'll put it this way: If you took Sauron and scaled him up to Morgoth's power level, he would take over the universe and find a way to defeat Eru. Proof? Eru intervened several times personally to limit Sauron so he wouldn't rule over all of Middle Earth because he would have if he just let things play out. Sauron took over Numinor by just being an advisor and mobilized an invasion on freaking Valinor which Eru had to stop and then apparently thought it necessary to turn it into Atlantis. Morgoth on the other hand was just angry and pathetic but naturally gifted.
Morgoth was far more evil and stupid in his ambitions than Sauron, Morgoth wanted to destroy or corrupt all life on earth because it was offensive to him. Sauron wanted to be a godlike ruler that reordered things according to his own vision of progress.
There couldn't be a Sauron vs Morgoth because they share the same mindset and Sauron is not hiding his pledge for Morgoth, as he knows he's a Maiar and Morgoth is a Valar.
The valar are more like individual elements / parts / characteristics of eru iluvatar that he pulled out of himself. The fact that melkor was the most powerful was a demonstration that every being has dark and light - including the creator himself. And that the one dark element (side) of every being is almost as powerful as all the light put together - until all the light side characteristics come together as one. Only when all the light is focused together can the solitary dark be defeated. The maia were creations.
I would have thought given his strength and malice that Morgoth would have wanted to join the fray. If it was me I would have wanted to watch my enemies burn by my own hand.
MMMM What an interesting story of the MIDDLE EARTH but what am looking forward to is to have a complete movie of the narrated story. If I may ask, where to download it?
Sauron was once known as Annatar, the giver of gifts. Now I’m picturing this pretty elf guy handing Celebrimbor a tub of margarine and exclaiming ‘I can’t believe it’s not butter!’
Your voice is perfect for stories. There are so many UA-camrs who have great stories, but their voices ruin it. Yours fits perfect for lord of the rings. Now I got 2 people to listen to when it comes to this franchise u a nerd of the rings. However, your story is a bit wrong morgoth was never beaten they had to seal him away. Only tom stands a chance against morgoth sauron is nothing to morgoth a bug.
Thanks for the comment 😊. I’m glad you like the video. I try to do a calm narrating sort of voice. Yeh, Morgoth was never killed of destroyed, but I I counted his capture and chaining in the void as a defeat.
@FairlyFictional yeah it's good. Keep it up. And fair enough, I just love morgoth so much whenever I hear people say he was defeated. I always say hell, nah, he got sealed. that's not the same, haha. But you're right he technically was defeated. I truly believe if Tolkien was alive, he would have bought morgoth back for the grand finally. I just love in the books that all their stories eventually come to an end.
I do have another video about Morgoth. Though you might not like how that ended for him 😅. It’s also narrated by Krug, my pet orc who I sometimes get to narrate evil stories 🙄.
Head to head Morgoth would crush Sauron. Plus Morgoth had the Balrog's. The only way Sauron could win is if he could manipulate Morgoth into spending his power. But that would take ages.
Morgoth(a Vala) known as the first dark lord. (formerly known as Melkor). He cannot create any thing, only Eru Illuvatar can create. Everything was part of Eru's song. Vala Melkor (Morgoth) made his own song. Known as Elvish, but on a heavy measure that few speak. "Black-Speech". Vala Melkor(Morgoth) does not crush Sauron. Sauron (a Maia) also known as the other Dark Lord. (formerly known as Mairon, the shapeshifter and the hottest and most powerful fire spirit of all fire spirits). He was Melkor/Morgoth's ally and Mairon/Sauron was his chief lieutenant. That is, Melkor/Morgoth was Mairon/Sauron's Master. Vala is a higher being than Maia. But the most powerful and Strongest of all beings is the Creator God Eru Illuvatar. Melkor(Morgoth) made dragons and Ungoliath and Balrogs and Orcs. He kidnapped the first Maia to awaken in Arda, locked them up, tortured them and manipulated them, so that they became corrupt in heart and mind. And changed shape. Some became Balrogs and others Orcs. Who served Melkor(Morgoth) loyally. When Sauron took over his master's wish only the Orcs served him. And in a point of view, Shelob too. She became a guardian. She took anyone who tried to stop Sauron's plan as food. It was a deal she made. So did Gollum.
A more balanced accounting of events would be appreciated. Were there any attempts made to obtain statements from Morgoth and Sauron regarding the true nature of what transpired?
He didn't want to destroy all life he wanted to corrupt all life. With his pet he could have destroyed quite easily instead he corrupted elves to create the orcs and even corrupted men.
Thats pretty much what Tolkein was getting at with Morgoth he wanted him to be a direct comparison to Satan. The creater of Evil, When evil is defined one word is its definition and thats Satan.
Morgoth at the end of his reign was weak. So him vs Sauron at his prime with the one ring, sauron have more chance to be superior. He’s more smart and have been on Arda for three ages. Morgoth only one age. Morgoth want destruction, sauron want domination
In a direct head to head confrontation theirs no Question Morgoth stomps him no Question but that would never be he’s approach to handling Morgoth Anyway .as in character he only personally stepped in to fight Gil- galad and Elendil when he either believed he led them into a trap and already won or he had to fight them or risk defeat
Power levels aren't really linear in Tolkien's universe. Maiar (like Sauron or a Balrog) and dragons have been defeated by men and elves, Gandalf the White had genuine concerns about the Witch-King in ROTK despite having faced down all nine Nazgûl as Gandalf the Grey, etc. Power itself is based more around words, language, and the environment, more so than a character's 'power level', so to speak.
@@Scarecrow545 Morgoth as the backdrop of lotr was the exception. Even in its weakened state, he was supreme as a Valar until his peers showed up to defeat him for good. There was zero chance for the elves or the other Maiars. That's why Sauron cannot be compared to Morgoth.
@@EvaExplores-x2x I understand, I just think in general these /r/whowouldwin debates are not in the spirit of how power works in LOTR, etc, both thematically ('even the smallest person can make a difference') and narratively/within the logic of the story (aforementioned examples).
When comparing a “who would win” scenario between these two, remember that for all his power Morgoth rarely entered the battle. It would largely come down to the forces at their disposal and tactics employed. Morgoth had some heavy hitters but Sauron maybe more cunning.
lol was this intentional or a Freudian slip? I do like the idea that the lord of the rings exists in the Harry potter universe and Tom riddle just didn’t read it.
Who would you back to come out on top in a head to head battle for Middle Earth?
Morgoth with his vast powerful armies, or Sauron, the cunning tactician…?
Morgoth is more powerful than all the Valar. If he was at his peak, Morgoth would wipe the floor with Sauron.
*Morgoth,* hands down, would crush Sauron.
Tough question....Morgoth never entered battles. He poured his power to shape the world, make dragons and beasts. All the balrogs would fight by his side. Sauron, knowing this would have to pretend to be an ally while only using orcs to stop Morgoth. That would be futile. My guess is the only way sauron could win would be to wait till morgoth spends most of his power making evil things, then assassinate morgoth himself while alone, and blame it on the Valor.
Morgoth, he has better forces (balrogs and dragons) and is far more powerful
@@FairlyFictional If Sauron thought he could beat him he wouldn’t be his servant in the first age
Peter Jackson must make a Trilogy about Morgoth and Sauron becoming his Successor, it would be absolutely insane!!
🤜🏽🤛🏽
I agree. I think HBO could do it justice as well.
He can't. No one can. No one has the rights to anything other than The hobbit and lotr.
All other work covering the first age and before can't be adapted.
@@chrisi621 i thought so, such a shame, from Eru and the creation of Valar - Ainur, to The Elves/Men and the Valar taking on Morgoth in the War of Wrath, I’d say the cinematic experience would be such that could match what we had the pleasure of experiencing with The Lord of the Rings and potentially better.
Does anyone know why the rights to "The Silmarillion" were never and won't be granted? I'm just curious why they sell the rights to The LotR to just about anybody, but no one is allowed to touch The Silmarillion.
Peter Jackson still making movies?
In dnd terms, Morgoth is chaotic evil while Sauron is lawful evil
I was thinking that, myself.
I'll allow it.
he is not caotic evil, for sure, but lawful evil is too kind for sauron.
@@theghostshepherddog2765 r u so sure about that, lad?
Evil has no law
Absolutely enjoyed your video!!!! So well explained I understood greatly!💪🏻❤️
Sauron was a Demon. Morgoth is the Devil. There's no contest.
Sauron is saruman level, nothing special imho
@@SWOTHDRA lol what? sauron is saruman level?? you realize that Maiar's powers varied GREATLY right? Being a Maiar doesn't make you equal to all the others. Sauron was said to be by far one of the strongest of all the Maiar.
@@SWOTHDRA Weel, they were both Maiar. But Sauron had more power in his pinky than Saruman had in his whole body. Saruman the white could not even stand against Gandalf the white. And even Gandalf the white would have no chance against Sauron at the top of his might.
BEST DEFINITION
I wish there was a movie that focused on Morgoth and Sauron rather than Hunt for Gollum.
The Tolkien estate will probably never give the rights to anyone to adapt the first age (Morgoth's time on middle earth)
@@DanB-vc7gu Why not? They must only chose someone who will do a worthy adaptation. But then again they were dumb enough to approve the "Rings of Power". I think only money talks here. If someone offers them enough, they will give the rights.
@@EldenLord. Nope, it’s different case altogether. Compared to the first age (Morgoth’s time), the second age (rings of power) should have been MUCH easier to adapt. Tolkien’s writings of the first age are way harder to follow so much harder to adapt. The Tolkien estate have acknowledged this and will likely not grant anyone the rights anytime soon. I guess they’d probably like to keep something to themselves as well
@@EldenLord.
The Estate got 250 Million USD from Amazon and that's only for the Appendices of The Silmarillion which talks about a limited portion of the Second Age. Imagine how much money would an entity needs to shelve to get the rights to the three greatest stories of Middle-Earth (Beren and Luthien, The Children of Hurin, The Fall of Gondolin), and a detailed story of the First Age from the whole Silmarillion. Maybe around 10 Billion? lol
I feel like Morgoth is more evil because of his intentions. As to where Sauron just wanted to see out his vision of a world with perfect order, it still came from a good place as he thought that was the best option for everyone. Morgoth on the other hand, just wanted to fucking destroy everything
Morgoth is much more evil morgoth want to destroy evryting coz he couldn’t create live he was a valar much more powerful then souron
@@RuqiyaOsman-yw5pv well done you just reiterated the video.
I think so to
@@LlNGARDwell done you just reiterated a guy reiterating a video
Destroying everything because Eru is obviously a dictator is unquestionably better than wanting to be a dictator in your own right to “make things better”.
Morgoth was motivated by sheer hate and the want to undo everything. He was chaos personified. Sauron was motivated be a need for the world to be “orderly” according to his own twisted vision. He didn’t want to just destroy everything the way Morgoth did. They were both *EVIL* but Morgoth ranks higher on the “evil” scale when compared to Sauron 🤷🏻♀️
It could depend on what someone finds more evil.
Morgoth wanted the world to burn. But, that could be considered more merciful than Sauron wanting to subjugated and dominate for all time.
There is some merit to quick death being better than life of brutal misery.
I like to think Morgoth warped Sauron's psyche into the evil entity that we know from LotR. Sauron is sort of a victim just like all the "evil" things that Morgoth corrupted. I feel like Sauron would just be your typical, orderly control freak if Morgoth didn't corrupt him.
dont forget, Morgoth had an army of Balrogs and Dragons, which he created himself. Imagine if the Balrog had gotten the One Ring from Frodo. Even he would have easily out powered Sauron with his own Ring.
Ungoliant was more evil and powerful, tho.
Morgoth makes sauron look like a saint😢😢
Iswr 😂😂😂
Morgoth seems more dangerous than Sauron, but I think Sauron is a more formidable foe. He can beat his enemies with nearly any possible way.
@@sr3821 Morgoth is superior to Sauron in every possible way. ALL evil stems from Him. Even the weakest version of Morgoth is stronger than the strongest version of Sauron..... There's a line in Silmarillion
"...But in the years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice."
Sauron was a servant of Morgoth, even until the end. During his incarceration at Numenor, he created a religious sect to worship Morgoth.
Sauron only served Morgoth out of wish for power, not out of fealty and loyalty he was first attracted to him because of his power, but Morgoth ends was never of his. Sauron only served as long as he was around, the moment Morgoth was removed from the equation it didn’t take long before he pursued his own ends. This ends might have been influenced by Morgoth will he inflicted on the world, but he didn’t serve him in second and third age in the true meaning of the word.
He used Morgoth name only to achieve his own goals not really because he served him at that point.
He did not object to the world or how it looked, he had no standing issues with the creation nor the children in it. The deepest wish within him was to control and coordinate it, as this was how he were created by iluvitar , he never abandoned his purpose it just got corrected so it took the form of evil rather than that of good. Sauron in fact disliked chaos, anarchy, friction and destruction all what Morgoth stood for. He even repented his actions under Morgoth when he was defeated he was demanded back for the verdict of Manwë but out of shame and humiliation he remained and returned back to evil ways. So he where never the true evil at that point, it where something that where allowed to grow.
This
That is a misconception Sauron was loyal to Morgoth in the beginning, but I'm not sure he would feel the same in the event of Morgoth's return. During the events surrounding the fall of Numenor, Sauron gradually shifted his influence over men from having them worship Morgoth, to having them worship himself. In fact, it's heavily implied that this was his strategy the entire time. I believe that Sauron emulated his master in all that he did, including his insatiable lust for PERSONAL power.
This quote makes it clear that Sauron was only loyal to Morgoth during the First Age, and that after the First Age, Sauron no longer adored Morgoth.
….Melkor, whom in the beginning he [Sauron] had adored.
HOME, Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed
When Sauron himself took up the mantle of the Dark lord during Second Age he had forsook his loyalty to Morgoth, and Morgoth was of no concern to him anymore.
The only reason Sauron built a temple in worship of Morgoth was because he was a prisoner in Númenor and thus was hardly in a position to present himself as a deity.
(Tolkien's letters)
Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants; if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power.
(Morgoth's Ring ) Sauron wanted to be worshiped and seen as a God; not as a loyal servant of a greater power. He used Morgoth's name for his own gains and to progress his self-centered motives.
(Tolkien, J. R. R. The History of Middle-Earth X: Morgoth’s Ring)
He[Sauron] probably deluded himself with the notion that the Valar (including Melkor) having failed, Eru had simply abandoned Eä, or at any rate Arda, and would not concern himself with it any more.
When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to be Morgoth returned. (Tolkien-Letter 183)
Not till the end no. He used Morgoth's name as a tool because he was known as an incredibly powerful force from the previous wars. He used the promise of his power and immortality to manipulate Numinor but he at no point actually wanted Morgoth to come back and take over as the Dark Lord when he was trying to be the same thing.
@@mikni4069dude souron was very loyal to morgoth but he saw that morgoth wanted to destroy evryting that is life coz morgoth couldn’t create life him self coz he was higher being then souron or the other wizards
Morgoth screaming at the bunny 2:19 had me in stitches :D
🤣😜
Leading to chaotic and unpredictable behavior.....
The attack style of Morgoth and the Blitzkrieg comparison is a good one.
Not really. The Blitz was primarily effective because it meticulously planned and had specific strategic goals. The idea wasn’t to throw everything at the enemy front line. Rather, the idea was to identify the weakest points along a line and target it with overwhelming force, break thru and advance to critical strategic points behind the enemy line before serious counter measures could be enacted.
I loved this video! Being fairly young (25YO) I grew up with two older brothers that loved Lord Of The Ring but have never really tried to discover the lore behind the original movies until the show "Rings of Power" which opened so many questions. I do find it interesting how powerful Morgoth is but how much weaker his inability to predict and build a plan makes him. I would love for his lore to be studied even more! Thank you for this incredible video!
Thank you. And you are welcome ☺️. I will have more on Morgoth soon. If only they made his story into movies
Another solid video. I like how you compared and contrasted the ethos of each villain. Morgoth seems to be akin to the impetuous nature of a teenager who lashes out with reckless abandon and wants to see the world, burn while Sauron, being more cunning and strategic, wants to subjugate all forms of life to his will. I wonder if Sauron had been imbued with the same level of power as Morgoth, and given his strategic way of thinking, could he have succeeded in achieving his ultimate goal?
One of the questions I wish we could ask Tolkien if he was alive.
He couldn’t because Tolkien said that Eru would never let Evil win but I agree that Sauron would be a greater threat
If Sauron been a Valar he would been a far bigger problem as he only wanted control and used others in cunning ways to get there.
However the question is would he ever turn evil, I honestly don’t think he would. it was Morgoth that corrupted him into the evil being, that would never have happened if he was his almost equal, he would have been an enemy of Morgoth not an ally. Even if power were reversed, I doubt he would have turned evil he needed someone to corrupt him and speak the words in his ears, without Morgoth that was never going to happen on its own.
Well said and yeah, I think a being imbued with the chaos of Morgoth and the strategy and desire of Sauron would have bested all the Maiar in Middle Earth. That's why the Valar sent 5 Maiar (each equal in power to Sauron) to Middle Earth exactly because of the reason you bring up. The Valar didn't know if Sauron was as calculating as he was AND chaotic as Morgoth. Better send 5 gangsters to shut him down. Amazing that it only took 1 Maiar and a few hobbits to do the job.
Edit: And a new King of course. They needed him as well.
@@ichigen511 They only bested him because of his mistake of putting his essence into a physical thing, that and because it was the will of illuvitar
Wow!!! Great work!! the narative is perfect! The storyline well explained. And the art images....Amazing!! Thanks :D
Thank you so much 🙏🏼☺️
I need to see Morgoth in cinema
That would be awesome 🤩
Think it would be too expensive to produce😅
Morgoth was literally the source of all corruption in creation, including Sauron’s from when he was a Maiar aswell as every shadow & ounce of depravity in middle earth, which is why middle earth was described as ‘Morgoths Ring’
The answer is clear
A lot of people don’t realize the War with Morgoth was extremely and I mean *EXTREMELY* more violent, longer, and wiped out many nations and their people! War of the Silmarils was just terrifying. All out war which shook the lands and waters alike.
Would make a good R rated movie 🤔
This was a great video accept for the description the Valar as 'gods'. They seem more like archangels with Morgoth being stand in for Lucifer, the angel that fell due to his hurt pride.
I LOVE the artwork in this video, but the question is silly. Newbies to Tolkien's world who have maybe read the LOTR and The Hobbit (and/or watched the movies) are prone to be much more familiar with Sauron, and probably more likely to think of him as the ultimate evil, but anyone who has actually READ the Silmarillion would know that Melkor/Morgoth is on a different level entirely. Sauron was a Maiar, of the same order of existence as Gandalf and Saruman, whereas Morgoth was not only a VALAR, but, in Tolkien's words " the mightiest of all the Valar" as evidenced by the fact that all of the other Valar had to combine their forces just to stop him. It's not a close comparison.
This is true, however the gap between Morgoth and Sauron would be narrower. Morgoth used up much of his native power in the marring of Arda. After the initial War of the Powers, when Melkor is defeated the first time, Manwe notes that Melkor's stature is now less than his own. Sauron did similar things, such as his ring making, but far less often and far smaller in scale. Still, I would agree that Morgoth>Sauron in final analysis, if only due to the degree of evil.
@@99Kresnik
They were only able to beat Melkor after thousands years of stalemate and Melkor using up his powers to disrupt Arda's creation, from the Ainulindale to the Marring of Arda, thus giving Tulkas and the Ainur the opportunity to beat him. The guy is tough.
In the original movies it was Sauron. The other dude was added in some legends and other tales.
Just discovered this channel . It’s EPIC I subscribed so fast .
Thank you for saying so. I’m glad you like it. 😊🙏🏼
tho sauron may have been more strategic, I do feel that by sheer power (and the fact that Morgoth was close to a god) morgoth would have won.
Depends when in the timeline you’re talking. At the beginning of Arda Morgoth was easily the most powerful being who was only second to Eru himself in terms of power. However Morgoth used pretty much all of his power on creating and corrupting his servants and armies as well as the land itself. Towards the end of the war of Wrath, Morgoth became extremely weak and would’ve been surpassed by Sauron due to Sauron not losing any of his power.
Sauron wanted everybody in line, squared up and subservient to him but basically alive and functioning...
Morgoth just wanted to kill everything and everybody...
Morgoth was a Morgoth. Pure evil with no doubt how to fight, exterminate and at least how to determine and execute his decisions in any moment. With long live agresion Sauron has learned how to survive and to give a hope to all living beings. Balrogs anyway belong to Morgoth, which Sauron can only Dreams about it. Morgoth was a pure evil person, while Marion has learned a lesson from him. Simple Morgoth was much more evil, while Sauron was smarter due to his Master mistakes. He was learnining through a time.
From Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion, included in Morgoth's Ring:
Melkor 'incarnated' himself (as Morgoth) permanently. He did this so as to control the hröa, the 'flesh' or physical matter, of Arda. He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster, and more perilous, procedure, though of similar sort to the operations of Sauron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all 'matter' was likely to have a 'Melkor ingredient', and those who had bodies, nourished by the hröa of Arda, had as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect upon their spirits.
But in this way Morgoth lost (or exchanged, or transmuted) the greater part of his original 'angelic' powers, of mind and spirit, while gaining a terrible grip upon the physical world. For this reason he had to be fought, mainly by physical force, and enormous material ruin was a probable consequence of any direct combat with him, victorious or otherwise. This is the chief explanation of the constant reluctance of the Valar to come into open battle against Morgoth. Manwë's task and problem was much more difficult than Gandalf's. Sauron's, relatively smaller, power was concentrated; Morgoth's vast power was disseminated. The whole of 'Middle-earth' was Morgoth's Ring, though temporarily his attention was mainly upon the North-west. Unless swiftly successful, War against him might well end in reducing all Middle-earth to chaos, possibly even all Arda. It is easy to say: 'It was the task and function of the Elder King to govern Arda and make it possible for the Children of Eru to live in it unmolested.' But the dilemma of the Valar was this: Arda could only be liberated by a physical battle; but a probable result of such a battle was the irretrievable ruin of Arda. Moreover, the final eradication of Sauron (as a power directing evil) was achievable by the destruction of the Ring. No such eradication of Morgoth was possible, since this required the complete disintegration of the 'matter' of Arda. Sauron's power was not (for example) in gold as such, but in a particular form or shape made of a particular portion of total gold. Morgoth's power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such 'magic' and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)
I'd say Morgoth would be more evil. He rebelled against Eru and wanted to destroy and corrupt as much as he could out of spite to Eru. Very similar to real world Satan. Sauron moreso wanted to be in charge of it all. Regardless I think we could all agree Morgoth is waaay more powerful.
More powerful to begin with. However, by the end of First Age he had bled so much of his power to corrupt Arda that he's a shadow of his former self.
Morgoth is chaos,Sauron is control.Morgoth is supremely more powerful no doubt
Let us all pray for the return of our dark lord Sauron to lead us to greatness and evil!
According g to a direct quote from JRR Tolkien, in the books he states “Sauron was as close to the wholly embodiment of evils will as is possible” meaning there was no more evil being than Sauron, so he and Morgoth were likely just as evil as each other, Morgoth was just chaotic evil while Sauron was controlled evil
the key to this quote is "evils will" not evil itself evil is referring to morgoth and sauron carrying his will
@@reyrey9752 according to who? That’s how your choosing to interpret it, but that may not be what was meant by it
@@reyrey9752 it’s another wording for “the embodiment of evil”
Morgoth wanted to destroy everything sauron did not so on the ranks of evil morgoth is depicted and stated to be of an higher evil and no that's not an interpretation that's literally what Tolkien intended.
@@TheemptythroneistakenYes Morgoths existence and Eru not extinguishing Morgoth without a bloody war just doesn't sit right. Sauron existence and Eru only sending advisors to help humans whiles calling the Elves away was a test. A referendum on Eru's decision to give human's free will at the expense of order. I believe Eru would have allowed Sauron to rule Middle Earth for age until "worthy and righteous humans" called for mercy and help overthrowing Sauron. Eru would have never allowed Morgoth to rule or destroy 90% of all creation. That is why I consider Morgoth more evil. Morgoth is on a different level that even Satan featured in Christian tradition and more powerful in a sense. Morgoth was so powerful and evil that his existence is seal off in an oblivion that can't interact with any realm with living beings or immortals. Defeated disembodied Sauron of the 4th age is in a similar predicament but from my understanding his spirit can walk middle earth but not interact with it. Maybe evil beings can still feel his evil auroa when he is near magnifying their evil feeling in unfocused and random ways.
Very nice voice, great art! Overall awesome video, thank you! 🌻
Thank you ☺️
For the question of who was more worst, It is have to be Morgoth, on all counts. Which leaves us with 'Who was the Best'. And in this 'Brain vs Muscle' scenario here, We would all have to go with the strategic and chaotic reign of Sauron, Who infiltraded into the realms of Elves and Men and planted seeds to destroy them from within.
I guess Sauron was technically last man standing, being free while Morgoth got imprisoned 🤔
Morgoth was disturbed Iluvatar during songs of creation. So he is one of most evil Ainur. Sauron was hes puppet. Morgoth had army of Balrogs, that was destroyed by strongest Ainurs. Sauron didn't even dream to have even 1 Balrog in hes team.
Definitely Morgoth, I mean as I understand it Melkor literally brought evil into the world by creating a tune to oppose that of Eru Illuvitar.
Basic answer is Melkor. Melkor was so enraged by not having the secret fire he set out to corrupt everything made by Eru Illuvitar. Whereas Sauron being a Maiar of Aule wanted Regimentation and order of the world and wanted dominion over all of it.
Morgoth created the evil everywhere twisting things to his will, but Sauron wants to control everything, non of the Valar and the other races wanted him to control, he deceived them, so he used Morgoth evil leftovers only which that we saw in the movie, imagine if Morgoth and Sauron were together in the movie 😱.
Clearly, Morgoth is more evil. His power is comparable to Manwe, the strongest of the Valar, who is also his brother. Sauron is nothing compared to the Valar. Morgoth is basically the god of evil/chaos. he brought chaos to Arda/ Middle Earth. On a side note, Morgoth feared Varda the most, even above the strongest of his kin, Manwe. Varda is the Queen of Light, the Queen of the Stars. Varda and Manwe are archenemies. I would love to see them fight lol.
Sooo Morgoth is a Sociopath and Sauron is a Psychopath
Nice analysis 👍🏽
I love the artwork!!!
☺️
Of the greater evils: Lucifernian (will to power, rebellion) -> Ahrimanaic (desire for total control and conformity, Sauron) -> Sorathic (evil for its own sake, desire to unmake all things and return to formless chaos) Morgoth is close to the last, but excludes himself from being unmade.
Sauron, while undoubtedly evil, had the end goal of order and preservation. Morgoth on the other hand had the end goal of chaos and destruction. In the alignment system Sauron’s lawful evil and Morgoth’s chaotic evil.
It took the combined might of all the valar to defeat morgoth and even then they were close to being defeated themselves! Morgoth is literally the reason all evil even exists in the world of middle earth since it was he who was the one who added that little detail within the song of creation his evil is so great that it is said his being is not dead but trapped in the void until dagor dagorath (The end of everything) for which he will be the harbinger of that destruction.
It's about time Peter Jackson got some Morgoth stories on to film .
It would be good to see. Though dark and scary. Not like the hobbit movies.
@@FairlyFictional yea sure that could be awesome. Please allow us to enjoy the movies through watching them
So essentially, Morgoth (aka Melkor) was the more powerful of these two dark lords, but Sauron was far more cunning and strategic. Morgoth only cared about bloodshed and destruction, while Sauron carefully planned to ultimately rule the planet.
Both Melkor and Sauron were members of the Ainur created by Eru, Melkor being a Valar and Sauron a Maiar. Eru warned all the Ainur that once they entered the universe, they could never return to the Timeless Halls until the universe naturally concluded.
The Ainur appeared to have entered the universe with a limited amount of power, and would become unable to interact with the living world should they use it all up. Although the Ainur (Valar and Maiar alike) can never truly die, they can lose their ability to have a physical presence in the world. This happened to Sauron upon the destruction of the One Ring, Saruman when he was "killed" by that man from Rohan, and in a way to Melkor when he was ultimately defeated by the other Valar. They all suffered a fate worse than death since they were essentially diminished to powerless, formless, untouchable and invisible ghosts that can do nothing but wonder until the end of time,
Is that even a question? Morgoth made Sauron into the evil being, without Morgoth there would be no Sauron… Sauron evil all stem from Morgoth and he was mainly pursued by his obsession with order and control and for thousands of years Sauron could still take on a fair form one of the reasons why Morgoth was interested in him. while Sauron where corrupted he was not pure evil until later on.
Morgoth wants to corrupt and destroy everything created by the Valar and Eru himself, he despises and envied the gift given to the children and what was created by them and the other Valars. He wanted to possess them, ultimately create a world in his own image, which was anarchy, largely he wanted to replace iluvatar himself.
Sauron evil was just of far less magnitude. Sauron did not hate the children, he multiple times used them to his own end to create a world of order and to gain power. He had no wish to corrupt or to destroy only to control and create a world of order, basically a tyrant.
Sauron never had the all consumed hate for iluvatar children that Morgoth had, he just wanted to be their master, to control them, this was why he made the rings of power. It was first when he figured out he could never control the elves and they went against him in the last alliance he started to truly hate them, but never to the extent Morgoth did.
Their end could not possibly be any more different
False. So, according to JRR Tolkien himself, “Sauron was only less evil than Morgoth in that for a while, he served someone other than himself.” And “Sauron was as close to the wholly embodiment of evils will as Is possible”
@@xsoundofsil3nc3x96 Morgoth is the equivalent of Satan in Christianity or in norse mythology Loki, both of which he is inspired by. There is no equivalent or worse evil in Tolkien universe as he is the creator of evil, without him there would been no Sauron, he would have remained Mairon a servant of Aulè
Sauron is mainly just a tyrant like the mythical creature he is inspired by Balor, on top there clear reference to the serpent of eden, Mephistopheles and other devil like figures and tyrant of his time. He is a lesser power and evil, it is quite easy to understand from the source material, he only became because of two things he where corrupted by Morgoth and after he was defeated a power vacuum arose that he used to gain power. He even repented after Morgoth final defeat at the end of first age, at that point he was not pure evil but a corrupted Maia mainly that liked the power he had gained.
But most of all things he liked order and domination
So it’s a different type of evil, an evil more like found in men more than that pure evil described in Morgoth
@@mikni4069 according to the writer of the books, the creator of the series, the one who thought up of all of this stuff, Sauron and Morgoth were equally evil, they were both “The Devil”, but embodied different types of evil. Morgoth represented destruction and hate, Sauron embodied tyranny and deceit. Both were the physical embodiment of evil, just two different kinds of evil
@@xsoundofsil3nc3x96 And he also wrote he were a lesser evil a couple of times, there many contradictory statements made by Tolkien in his unfinished work… He said his work wasn’t an allegory but then some part was.. The amount of times he contradicted and changed his mind is well known.
💯. I don't see the point of comparing them. Morgoth is evil in itself. As long as he still exists, evil will always find a way. Without Morgoth, there'd be no Sauron, Balrogs, Ungoliant, Dark forests, Trolls, Orcs and there would be no divide between the Blessed realm and middle earth. It would all be harmony, for the Ainur, all the children of Illuvatar, the children of Aüle, all the lights of Varda, all the creatures and plants of Kementari and Nienna would have never shed a single tear for Arda.
2:16 Morgoth should have just sent a werewolf to guard his mushrooms from rabbits, it seems beneath a Dark Lord's attention. Rabbits don't even eat mushrooms. Sauron never wasted time with mushrooms. I assume Mushrooms symbolize Death and Decay
Morgoth- Chaotic Evil: wanted to corrupt and destroy Eru’s creations
Sauron- Lawful Evil: wanted to create a world controlled solely by him.
Morgoth is more like Genghis Khan/ Tamerlane
Sauron is like Stalin/ Mao/ some aspects of mustache man
Almost good comparisson, but Tamerlan more like Sauron: he created the Timurid Empire, he made Samarkand the world capital of knowledge by capturing the scientists and scholars from the cities he captured and moved them to Sanarkand, and he created schools for them to teach.
One side he was bloodthirthty cruel dictator, but on the other he created an Empire where science flourished.
So Tamerlane more Sauron than Morgoth.
Sauron also acted on malice and revenge, though less than Morgoth. Sauron hated the Numenoreans and when taken captive by them he sought to corrupt and ruin their society. He went to the extreme of sending them to attack Valinor causing Eru to destroy Numenore, killing Sauron in the process. Sauron went overboard due to his malice and got himself killed.
Morgoth had pure hatred. Sauron mostly wanted power
Both of them are saving their power in Floppy Disk And Diskette thats why when their precious item destroy both of them destroy also.
The Next darklord should use cloud server or even VPS 😅
Who did the art for this. It's amazing
Thank you. I made them. 🙏🏼
@@FairlyFictional do you ever sell your artwork?
Morgoths main desire was to warp, twist and dominate wholly. He wanted to twist races physically and mentally for pleasure. He taught sauron what evil was
I always felt they were equally evil just different in how destructive they were. *edit* With that being said I feel like Sauron would come up short against Morgoth but ultimately win utilizing his leadership/plans to orchestrate chaos as he does.
The one above all who created them, created Morgoth to do what he did. and Sauron... The ring was meant to pass to bilbo, so Melkor was meant to attack middle earth, was meant to lose, and sauron was meant to take over. Create the ring, lose the ring, the ring passes to gollum by intent, passes to Bilbo as he was meant to have it. And Thus frodo was meant to be the ring bearer and Gollum was meant to overpower frodo at the end and fall in the fires of mount doom, destroying the ring and sauron... So sauron was meant to die. And middle earth was meant to be inherited by humanity. Who eventually created black magic cults who became evil. ( Today's world is rulled by secret cults. Occultic symbols. etc... )
The original earth for middle earth was flat with an encirircling sea, in the shape of the ALL seeing eye, freeze water and you get ice, so the encircling sea is the icewall.
Game of thrones, had an icewall... Middle earth is changed and seas consume most of westren middle earth... It became a planet.
Emerald tablets of thoth has a chapter where god changes the earth so that the ocean could consume Atlantis...
Tolkien acted as someone who possessed secret knowledge which he used to build his stories.
After sauron, humanity inherits middle earth... and this becomes modern civilization... Think about it.
This is a strange question. The very concept of evil in this mythos IS Morgoth. Similar to Christianity/Judaism/Islam with how evil IS Satan/Lucifer. The term evil is basically anything in opposition of the supreme God. In Tolkien's mythos, Eru is the supreme God. Morgoth is evil because he is in opposition of Eru's vision. Eru's vision if "good". Anything else is evil. Though I suppose there is some wiggle room there with how the Dwarves came about. But that's a deeper conversation regarding free-will of the Valar or really anything else, similar to real life Abrahamic religions. If anything other than God's vision is evil, then it's absurd to expect creatures made by an omnipotent being and given free-will to somehow perfectly align with that vision. So, in a sense, one could argue that the concept of evil is irrelevant.
But anyways... Clearly the one that is the embodiment of the entire concept of evil, is the most evil. My interpretation of Sauron is that he isn't so much evil as he is lustful for power and control. He doesn't want to annihilate Middle Earth. He wants to dominate it and rule over the people. He's like a control freak that desires order which isn't inherently bad. But Morgoth, because he IS evil, was able to warp Sauron's desires and nature into the evil entity we know from LotR.
Morgoth was enormously more powerful. Sauron had to be crafty and hidden like a sleaze bag. At least with Morgoth, he would walk right up to you with a backhand slap readied.
Morgoth is the most evil of the two for it was him that turned Sauron to the dark side.
But Sauron may have been more cunning.
The parallels between Morgoth and Netanyahu are chilling.
I'll put it this way: If you took Sauron and scaled him up to Morgoth's power level, he would take over the universe and find a way to defeat Eru. Proof? Eru intervened several times personally to limit Sauron so he wouldn't rule over all of Middle Earth because he would have if he just let things play out. Sauron took over Numinor by just being an advisor and mobilized an invasion on freaking Valinor which Eru had to stop and then apparently thought it necessary to turn it into Atlantis. Morgoth on the other hand was just angry and pathetic but naturally gifted.
In need, they can always have Tulkas fold his clothes with him inside them
@ 7:51 Lord Voldemort???
Yup. He definitely would have read Tolkien. 😜
I know right 😂
I was starting to wonder if I was the only one that was all Voldemort what? lol
Sauron was Morgoths lieutenant before he was thrown into the void
Morgoth was far more evil and stupid in his ambitions than Sauron, Morgoth wanted to destroy or corrupt all life on earth because it was offensive to him. Sauron wanted to be a godlike ruler that reordered things according to his own vision of progress.
Make sure to remind us that Morgoth acted out of spite.
Morgoth was more powerful, Sauron was more dangerous because he was getting in people's heads. Saurons actions and threats were cancerous.
Not even close for power. Evil is debatable
There couldn't be a Sauron vs Morgoth because they share the same mindset and Sauron is not hiding his pledge for Morgoth, as he knows he's a Maiar and Morgoth is a Valar.
Morgoth punched drywall.
But he ran so that Sauron could fly.
Sauron is the villain with a purpose, while Morgoth is just 'the villain', period.
Love the video
Love this comment 😉
Great video of a super topic!
What's this got to do with Voldemort?
Just an interesting similarity between 3 dark lords 🙄. I’m sure Voldemort probably read the books 😉
Seems like Morgoth had more unhinged hatred, whereas Sauron had more calculated evil.
The valar are more like individual elements / parts / characteristics of eru iluvatar that he pulled out of himself. The fact that melkor was the most powerful was a demonstration that every being has dark and light - including the creator himself. And that the one dark element (side) of every being is almost as powerful as all the light put together - until all the light side characteristics come together as one. Only when all the light is focused together can the solitary dark be defeated. The maia were creations.
I would have thought given his strength and malice that Morgoth would have wanted to join the fray. If it was me I would have wanted to watch my enemies burn by my own hand.
MMMM What an interesting story of the MIDDLE EARTH but what am looking forward to is to have a complete movie of the narrated story. If I may ask, where to download it?
This is like Darkseid( morgoth) vs Thanos( Sauron)
Morgoth is pure evil
In other words, Sauron is smarter
Great topic, I like it.
I believe that Morgoth was evil, and Sauron was quasi-evil. The margarine of evil. The Diet Coke of evil. Just one calorie, not evil enough.
Im fucking dead 🤣🤣. Stop it.
Sauron was once known as Annatar, the giver of gifts.
Now I’m picturing this pretty elf guy handing Celebrimbor a tub of margarine and exclaiming ‘I can’t believe it’s not butter!’
I literally saw that film yesterday 😂
Morgoth: evil born from the right brain
Sauron: evil born from the left brain
Morgoth is/was the original and most powerful Evil.
Morgoth is the final boss
I mean in terms of scale, Morgoth has to be more evil than Sauron. The real question is what’s worse, total control or total annihilation.
If Morgoth were to fight Sauron, Sauron would lose hard. Morgoth was in control of balrogs and dragons.
Your voice is perfect for stories. There are so many UA-camrs who have great stories, but their voices ruin it. Yours fits perfect for lord of the rings. Now I got 2 people to listen to when it comes to this franchise u a nerd of the rings. However, your story is a bit wrong morgoth was never beaten they had to seal him away. Only tom stands a chance against morgoth sauron is nothing to morgoth a bug.
Thanks for the comment 😊. I’m glad you like the video. I try to do a calm narrating sort of voice. Yeh, Morgoth was never killed of destroyed, but I I counted his capture and chaining in the void as a defeat.
@FairlyFictional yeah it's good. Keep it up. And fair enough, I just love morgoth so much whenever I hear people say he was defeated. I always say hell, nah, he got sealed. that's not the same, haha. But you're right he technically was defeated. I truly believe if Tolkien was alive, he would have bought morgoth back for the grand finally. I just love in the books that all their stories eventually come to an end.
I do have another video about Morgoth. Though you might not like how that ended for him 😅. It’s also narrated by Krug, my pet orc who I sometimes get to narrate evil stories 🙄.
How do speculate the end result of a one on one with Sauron vs. Fingolfin?
Morgoth = Chaotic Evil
Sauron = Lawful Evil
Sauron could never hope to destroy Morgoth. It would be like an Angel trying to kill God.
But could be hope to see Morgoth imprisoned while he walks free 😳🤯
Sauron was a better villain
Head to head Morgoth would crush Sauron. Plus Morgoth had the Balrog's. The only way Sauron could win is if he could manipulate Morgoth into spending his power. But that would take ages.
Morgoth(a Vala) known as the first dark lord. (formerly known as Melkor).
He cannot create any thing, only Eru Illuvatar can create.
Everything was part of Eru's song.
Vala Melkor (Morgoth) made his own song.
Known as Elvish, but on a heavy measure that few speak.
"Black-Speech".
Vala Melkor(Morgoth) does not crush Sauron.
Sauron (a Maia) also known as the other Dark Lord.
(formerly known as Mairon, the shapeshifter and the hottest and most powerful fire spirit of all fire spirits).
He was Melkor/Morgoth's ally and Mairon/Sauron was his chief lieutenant. That is, Melkor/Morgoth was Mairon/Sauron's Master.
Vala is a higher being than Maia.
But the most powerful and Strongest of all beings is the Creator God Eru Illuvatar.
Melkor(Morgoth) made dragons and Ungoliath and Balrogs and Orcs.
He kidnapped the first Maia to awaken in Arda, locked them up, tortured them and manipulated them, so that they became corrupt in heart and mind.
And changed shape.
Some became Balrogs and others Orcs.
Who served Melkor(Morgoth) loyally.
When Sauron took over his master's wish only the Orcs served him.
And in a point of view, Shelob too.
She became a guardian. She took anyone who tried to stop Sauron's plan as food. It was a deal she made.
So did Gollum.
But anyway Morgoth and Sauron created heavy industries and many jobs which most world leaders have failed to do so.
A more balanced accounting of events would be appreciated. Were there any attempts made to obtain statements from Morgoth and Sauron regarding the true nature of what transpired?
We reached out to their representatives for comment but they were unwilling to respond to the accusations levied against them. 🫣
He didn't want to destroy all life he wanted to corrupt all life. With his pet he could have destroyed quite easily instead he corrupted elves to create the orcs and even corrupted men.
Morgoth has very similar characteristics to the Lucifier Morningstar.
Yeh I had that in the script but took it out. Will probably cover it in another vodeo
Thats pretty much what Tolkein was getting at with Morgoth he wanted him to be a direct comparison to Satan. The creater of Evil, When evil is defined one word is its definition and thats Satan.
Morgoth at the end of his reign was weak. So him vs Sauron at his prime with the one ring, sauron have more chance to be superior.
He’s more smart and have been on Arda for three ages. Morgoth only one age.
Morgoth want destruction, sauron want domination
In a direct head to head confrontation theirs no Question Morgoth stomps him no Question but that would never be he’s approach to handling Morgoth Anyway .as in character he only personally stepped in to fight Gil- galad and Elendil when he either believed he led them into a trap and already won or he had to fight them or risk defeat
These two are astronomical powerlevel difference. Can't compare
Power levels aren't really linear in Tolkien's universe. Maiar (like Sauron or a Balrog) and dragons have been defeated by men and elves, Gandalf the White had genuine concerns about the Witch-King in ROTK despite having faced down all nine Nazgûl as Gandalf the Grey, etc. Power itself is based more around words, language, and the environment, more so than a character's 'power level', so to speak.
@@Scarecrow545
And the will of Eru lol. Gandalf vs Balrog = gandalf loss. Gandalf vs Balrog without any restrictions = basically a tie
@@Scarecrow545 Morgoth as the backdrop of lotr was the exception. Even in its weakened state, he was supreme as a Valar until his peers showed up to defeat him for good. There was zero chance for the elves or the other Maiars. That's why Sauron cannot be compared to Morgoth.
@@EvaExplores-x2x I understand, I just think in general these /r/whowouldwin debates are not in the spirit of how power works in LOTR, etc, both thematically ('even the smallest person can make a difference') and narratively/within the logic of the story (aforementioned examples).
When comparing a “who would win” scenario between these two, remember that for all his power Morgoth rarely entered the battle.
It would largely come down to the forces at their disposal and tactics employed.
Morgoth had some heavy hitters but Sauron maybe more cunning.
Morgoth => Chaotic evil
Sauron => Legal evil
7:47 Voldemort? What??
🤭
lol was this intentional or a Freudian slip? I do like the idea that the lord of the rings exists in the Harry potter universe and Tom riddle just didn’t read it.
@@thisisspartacus or maybe he did and that’s why he copied them 😂
Morgoth was more evil, but Sauron was more motivated.