Many do that very Sadly. My town increasingly has it getting scary. If you do not love the pastor to think of him all the time or not toss everything aside they think you are carnally minded or immature even if you been saved 35 years . A trap in ways because a small community it can take over or nobody will bother to listen to discuss it . You cannot talk of things without gossip about you in town and snitch on you so you think they control outside as well and actually try to do it.
Many of the few around do that and if you say that is wrong or unnecessary i guess you must be trouble . The do that on David Jeremiah as ive seen the church campus tv screen issue.
@@rofhiwamashige4764 and these who fail to know their bibles or are told they shouldnt know it that it is ego to. I went against idea the false prophets so called Anointed ones and they want you to think they only can send you to hell for not respecting or adurating them!! I'm a christian plainly and know by observation but then get ignored becuz I am not popular or socalled successful. Emphasize in all that I win all by just carrying on .These will be judged maybe severely by God.
@@rofhiwamashige4764 I am just one opposed to it in my town and by good conscience thru God i wont join that 'crowd". But boy they let you have it if one opposes worshipping the leader , which is against scripture and some deliberately do that thing which is accountable to God .
#2 really hits. In my former church- we were highly encouraged to give money and told the more we give the more God will multiply- We were also told God is just waiting to bless us and we don't let him when we don't give money. It wasn't encouraging anyone to go out and look out for others but to give to the church. We preached on money more than any other topic. Followed by verses of "God loves a cheerful giver." I felt something was wrong with me because I wasn't cheerful about giving but more pressured and stressed about it.
Agreed friend. I experienced many of these as well. I would add "Using scripture out of context to motivate people." For example, Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some...Some pastors will use this to say you need to be at church every time the doors are open. If you're not you have backslidden. I love the Lord and now gravitate towards traditional churches instead of charismatic churches. Neither one is perfect but I find traditional churches focus on theological soundness vice emotional motivation.
This is a great video. I almost joined a church like this, who seemed so welcoming at first. But they are under the covering of a church with abusive practices. The last time I went, the people that were so kind and welcoming didn't even speak. And one woman even scowled at me as I walked through the door. Every week they give honor and praise to their pastor and his wife before the sermon starts. I've been in deep prayer for the strength to get out.
I was shunned in a covert manner and it was only evident to me when I realised I was being discussed amongst the people who "pulled all the strings" so to speak. I as a volunteer was ostracised and not included with other volunteers. It broke my heart. I am an amiable person with insight into my own behaviour and if I had done something "wrong" I would be open to discuss it but all I can think is the Ministry team wanted me gone. Never again will I put myself in such a position. I cannot deal with secrecy and it's power position within a Church.
I believe you. It happens when you don't fall into line and submit to those who desire to rule over you and your life. I will never enter the church business building again.
Church has scarred me. I will never go back to one ever again. I love Jesus and that is enough. The church just uses and abuses you and leaves you dry. BYE CHURCH lol!!
Julie they’re not all bad, trust me, I’ve been there and worn the t shirt, but remember 1 thing, if you’re looking for the perfect church, you won’t find it, cos ultimately every building is filled with people, and no of us are perfect, and by walking away from the body of Christ like that, Satan is loving it, we not supposed to do this walk alone......
@@juliekuvakos8924 well unless uv attend every single church out there then you wouldn’t know....., so it sounds to me like ur close to just making excuses and wanting to do ur faith on ur terms.....
Just today, i was remembering how the husband of a lady at Church stared at me... It was not friendly, or warm, or the kind of friendly look in which you want to wave back or smile back... And like this so many other episodes until i learn from narcissistic spiritual abuse, and i left... Normality, kindness, welcoming... Is something else... And somewhere else...
This was a demonic stare. I get this a lot. They do it to spiritually cause you harm, to transfer evil over to you and to suck your life force out of you. In the Middle East it's called the Evil Eye. When this happens, do not make eye contact under any circumstances! Because if you do, you will be shocked at the evil you will see, and that's when they transfer evil to you.
Also the elevation of certain members over others. An inner circle who are self congratulatory fueling each others popularity and relevance amongst the congregation. Leading to comments like....do you know who l am....as they lean in to a debate or discussion.
I forgive you that but seek to write a booklet on what you saw in all comparing things. Just something will be helpful even to.myself i would purchase it and so get the word out i plead you and no pressure from me.
I was shunned by parishioners at the Catholic church that I attended for not confirming to some of their doctrines. All I did was ask questions. Thier is a pecking order that takes place within the church, it reminds me of the jealousy that takes place within the work place. It's as if they are competing with each other to be the priest's golden child. I would describe these people as competitors striving for a gold medal. They certainly don't adhere to the Beatitudes.
I too have been treated badly. A little gossip and away we go. The gossip came from the pastor. When I went into the confessional I felt he just wanted the scoop. No. I went to another church to confess. Talk about dirty looks from the heartless women. Better not turn the head of the parochial pastor, you will be destroyed. I went to the Bishop.
I have come out of a cult. The problem is that I have found myself in a mainstream church things are going well then .........change of leadership then the new leader will bring in unhealthy things into the church. It’s horrible. I find myself then in conflict because even though the church itself isn’t bad ie a baptist church I went to but the leader used some abusive manipulation. He wouldn’t listen to me I got really angry and he told me to leave. He just didn’t get it. I was telling him that the elderly members were complaining to me as a greeter that the music was too loud. They had to walk out some due to hearing aids. He said it’s not his fault his music leader was responsible for the music. I told him he is passing the buck and not taking responsibility as senior pastor. That’s when he said If your not happy here then leave. Charming so I left. He was working on his doctorate while he was the pastor. I have heard as soon as he was qualified he left the church for greener pastures. I wasn’t the only one leaving many left. Good source and true my daughter stayed in the church as she had a lot of friends who all left. Covid has shut the church down and the new pastor hasn’t had a good opportunity to develop the church. I am not kidding satan is ramping up spiritual deception in all churches
You are right on! We have left so many abusive churches. The leaders get by with lies and serious sins and the people on the receiving end are shamed and have to get out. Nobody is safe to tell if they are being bullied, harassed, silenced, and rejected. These people are hungry for power and adulation and they want to be served, not serve. Satan is definitely using these people who do not have the Spirit to push the godly out the door. I feel Jesus is removing the lampstand. I can't feel His presence in any church anymore. So sad.
And my town so confined at the edges of california desert and has more than one became a cult .One spiritually dangerous as they will send persons to harass you or make you guilty for not obeying them. Whole towns can have cult type personalities who are not going to go.away . Pray for me i can be strong and keep hungry to eat the truth that others try to lie to me in the town ! Pray God miraculously moves me away from . Please.
4:50 when you said you are a conriunst I hit subscribe. Yes, thsnk you. Its great finding sound believers that know God still speaks but hyper charismania needs some reigning in.
'church' is the living body of Christ, with each believer being led by God/Christ/Holy Spirit and living it NOT these religious 'houses of men', you cannot 'GO' to church you ARE the church, but unfortunately many do not see this - please do not let 'religion' put you off true walk with God x
Yes but so many try to lie and tell you are backslidden for missing their abusive church and ways . If you know the bible well they will shut you up or ignore as a pile of dirt even . They dont even respect knowing scripture well or will say you have pride but the bible has to study it on your own even .
Wow - I just tried to share something on here and it says that my "request contains an invalid argument". Considering I was trying to share a great deal about my experience in an abusive church and a testimony of what God did, I'd say UA-cam has some issues.
I heard from this old man who was always telling about what God was telling him while he was on his tractor. Then one day he fell off his tractor and couldn't ride it any more. Frankly, this strengthened my faith.
Can you send me a the link of Derek Prince when he repented from this philosophy? I saw it but I CAN'T FIND THIS!!! I CAN IDENTIFY WITH ALL OF THESE!!!
The Wikipedia article said Derek Prince eventually left the Shepherding Movement. Maybe he had a change of heart. I remember hearing one of his videos where he said God dealt with him and his wife severely about pride.
Listen up......When they approach you DO NOT communicate with them......they WILL soon get the message. These people must have your responses.....this is how they "keep" you in their power. When you STOP responding, you have won the day!
Thousands of dollars disappear from church funds and no one dared to question the pastor for fear of retaliation 😮 I was visiting a church on a Sunday the pastor from the pulpit called out someone and said that person was robbing God because he didn’t tithe the pastor then had that person thrown out for not tithing he was set as an example to non Tithers, this was the same pastor that told us that God will curse us and our children if we don’t give him 10% of all our financial earnings! Many were guilted into giving I ran out of that church never to return.
People deserve the right to read the bible and to have their own opinions. The bible is not complicated and mysterious. Read the bible and talk to God for yourself. If any church or religious leader tries to control this area of your life, that should be a 'red flag'.
Sadly the church i attended now the pastor is telling me to toss all i was taught by God of the bible as if its just old fashion junk . Mwjor red flag and frustrating situation and pray God strengthen me from the sky above to talk very boldly of real truths.
@@Colt8722 False teacher. I used to listen to him a lot too. But some things bothered me so I did a deep dive into his teachings and found out a lot of interesting things. This dude is considered "one of the greats" like CS Lewis, both are frauds.
Kc Ll yup yup ... the whole time I went to the potters house church I questioned ... is this a cult ... it’s very hard to figure out at first because most of the people there seem so devoted to God
@@chastain2825 we have one in my town and i only visited it like 16 years ago at first spot it was. People think naively it is all good as many otherwise informed people in my town think they know bit know nothing much and some want it that way i found out fairly recently .
I’ve been admonished this weekend for sharing my thoughts on the worship band. I’m the guitarist and I shared it with one of our backup singers. She joined in and expanded on my feelings and then went to the worship leader. It’s happened twice now. Any feelings of unrest must be shared with the pastor and no-one else. I’m new to the Pentecostal movement so I was surprised I was reprimanded. Saying anything about someone is gossip even if it’s just an observation. I’m wondering if this is part of “heavy shepherding?” That’s the message I’m getting. Any thoughts would be appreciated…
It depends on what you said. What did you say? Was it constructive and out of love? Was it something that should have been said in private rather than in front of people?
@@joshua1383 It was said in private to one person. I just said the music was too complicated. She went on about how the worship leader always changes key. Nevertheless she went and told the worship leader what I said. It was nothing that was negative. I feel like you can’t comment and it’s a stance of control and seen as gossiping. Now that I’ve calmed down, I think the leader has over reacted. I won’t put up with too much more…
@@conartist267 I totally understand what it's like to be in your position. I personally don't think what you said was wrong in and of itself. However, God looks at a person's heart above all else. I don't think that you were gossiping, and that a healthy church should have leaders who are open to questioning and suggestions. Perhaps next time, take it directly to the leader or the person that you want to address, but do it in private. God be with your heart, and may the Holy Spirit purify it of any anger. May the Spirit help you to forgive those who you feel have wronged you, so that you too may be forgiven of any of your own faults. I'll lift this up in prayer to God in Jesus' name before I sleep tonight.
If allowed I endorse the book titled 'The Marks of Cults' by Dave Breese and very good on the bigger important general traits of any kind of church as a cult and even newer 'cults'.
The ones cultlike is those might discipline you for not going with the program or seem to want you be naive and thus it is not mere faults sometimes .They play games .if you put on a plastic smile and dont question one little thing they play they like you.
A lot of faults. Christians excuse themselves by saying that the church is not perfect, but it is one thing to sin out of ignorance and another to sin treacherously against certain members of the church. Many fakes are inside just to keep others out or to make those who are truly seeking Christ
See I am going to a 'bible study' at a place in my town connected to a bigger mega ministry and i already feel lots of unusual spiritual discomfort about it on the account of the ''bolder'' or over-bold zeal they have that seems so much 'louder' than God's character in how He does things ,though the people there claim to be for God or represent God's ways or person. They automatically 'look' as if they represent a true ministry or witness , yet are showing a potential spirit of condemnation that's mild at first ! I seem to sense this strongly ( this cannot be normal or true Godly convictions based in biblical scruples ) , just something is not right . One feels fearful that one has to look or become only as the others in the group are to measure up to their talk or style of acting or sharing points there. I do not think I can really be myself so much there and relax like it should be and or the session is hurried as well. A christian shouldn't feel pressured to become in a hour period what the others seem like and say only the exact words in sharing and not be able to talk about common good things like a pet cat or a hobby or a food or such .I felt like I cannot speak of usual daily activity or thoughts that one is supposed to only talk of all the agenda as if there is only some time for that and nothing else . THIS IS NOT denying self I can tell even if it seems to be ( God does not put us in strict exact bondage ) .The people get zealous about the leaders and seem to think they must please them as if they than please Gods too and the zeal thus seems so blind sided and artificial or over done . And it seems it will get abusive to those who do not fit in .BUT I really would hope that none of the above is really happening , but likely is or will increase or start happening where I have to leave the group like i did from the other one about 2 years ago ..I do not like how the leader-pastor is and leads and says certain things that unnaturally shock the congregation which they think he is an incredible person . If anything please pray for me to clarify and escape from any problems that can happen .
If you feel like you are being forced to imitate a behavior, that is not of God. In 1 Peter 5:3 it says that leaders ought to be good examples to their congregations. Out of love for God we ought to want to follow the example of our leaders because of their God-fearing character. Imitating leaders because of social pressure is not good.
Yvonne Talamantez is a volunteer coordinator at First Assembly of God in San Antonio who is a self-serving narcissist. Yvonne Talamantez has no boundaries and has to be everywhere in the church, babysitting the lead pastor's children to gain favor, requesting to take children home instead of letting staff do so. Boasting of her works at all times, walking around with a look on her face like she is better than others. She creates a toxic environment by privately shaming other members, that she doesn't personally like, to her friends to get them to dislike the person. She causes discord like she is in middle school. #firstagsa #yvonnetalamantez
No no no do not leave for that reason .We are saved by what Jesus accomplished on the cross as He atoned for all our sins ..everyone . Did not leave any out and we cannot save ourselves scriptures does actually back it up . Study hatd your bible and you will be blessed .
Really agree with #3 "heavy shepherding", pyramidal hierarchy and not submitting to one another. Have witnessed this first-hand and opened my eyes to other signs. Obviously #7 "extreme control" and # 8 "shinning" also. Thank you for these videos 🙏 God bless
Do you read the 1611 king james bible ? If you dont mind me asking and I agree there is a lot of what your saying in the church's today and it saddens me I have experienced things myself but by the grace of god we can learn and pray over these things if we trust and are walking the narrow road and have faith in jesus christ we must always look to jesus in time of need and have faith in him, people do rely far to much on what a preacher, pastor has to say instead of studying the bible for answers because they are in my opinion too lazy to read or study and using time as a excuse , well make time for god I say. Also god tells us to search the scriptures if the bible says contrary to what a pastor, or preacher says then stand up and tell them so in front of the congregation the bible tells us to do this with scriptures.
We though are not saved by works as scripture and the narrow gate is Jesus how were saved once and for all. Many are apostates the bible will say clearly having no genuine sort of conscience.
Them not allowing one to talk about your trials because they say you are making it happen, that they say that the power of death and life are in the toungue. Them fighting with education and using the text to twist it when it says that fools lean on their own umderstanding. Saying everything is Imspired by the Holy Spirit then preaching from their emotions. Them doing many deliveramces on me and speaking to me and using everything I say agaimst me and accusing me of being the demons speaking. Making suicidal, depressed and amxious people mpre suicidal.
Someone was making fun of me because I was smoking and told me Jesus would never be good enough for me :( I was repenting and its not easy to quit smoking... I wanted to honor my body but I did not feel very encouraged
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr and nothing to endorse it as well but it being an addictive substance I would think the way proverbs speaks against being drunk it would have mentioned smoking as well if that was available in those times
I want to know this: If ALL of the OT Laws have been done away with and we can eat pork & crab, we have to dishonor the 7th day Sabbath & now go to church on the first day of the week and we're free from the ceremonial washings & such, then why is that good old, convenient 10%tithing law still in effect? Ive asked preachers that & boy, they stammer & can never give me a clear answer. Smh 😖 😕
MARCI'A THE HOOLIGAN , read JAMES 2:10. If you know the law then why are you breaking it? Truth is there are over a thousand laws (commandments) throughout the whole Bible. It is impossible not to stumble from time to time, thank JESUS for Grace through Salvation! But if you knowingly break a law....over and over.... well then.....
Ephesians 2:8-9 might help you also. There is a difference in the laws and good deeds. Know why you are doing something, pray about it.
4 роки тому+1
Name a person, just one who hasnt repeated sins they k ow are sins and cannot stop? Also Jesus Christ came to fulfil the law not destroy it. We are filthy sinners no matter how "good" you and or your works are. Its why we need to be saved- one on one personal relationship with God.
@ I know that! But here we go nobody can tell me why we must tithe and yes, I give love offerings but it's OK to break the Sabbath. Since the 4th Commandment is now null + void. Then is it OK that, when my elderly father becomes a grouch and starts yelling then I can backhand him across the face? Is it OK for me to go smash out my neighbor's windows with a baseball bat because I wish I had a pretty yard like theirs? Of course not! WHY are certain Commandments done away with but only the ones that may be inconvenient to us? And I'm aware that we are not justified by our works--I never once said we were.
One lady judge and gossip about me about my parenting. In few months, she got involved in system twice. The second time she lost her rights. The Bible is true don’t judge and regarding the measure. Some ladies was laughing at her in back of the church. Jesus didn’t died for us to be control in a church.
An abusive church does not allow sound doctrine to guide its teaching or practice, it places a higher value on experiences and feelings. Therefore those who are likewise disposed are accepted while those of a more scholarly mindset are ignored at best, accused of lacking in love at worst. When a church's leadership, pastors/elders, have a poor knowledge of the Scriptures and rely on Holy Spirit experience for direction they fail the sheep they are called to shepherd and error creeps in to the church. Churches like this are often abusive as they cannot tolerate opinions or concerns about what they teach and practice and in defending their stances they exercise harsh discipline over those who appear to threaten them. Many of the things you describe flourish in this type of environment and there are many hurt sheep - thank goodness Jesus does not abandon his sheep but looks out for them and promises to keep them in his fold. This may mean leaving
Has anyone had any negative or abusive or unnatural odd experiences in any of the calvary chapels out there ?? They seem to not be what they once were .They seem to think they are the only ones going to heaven .
I've met a few people who have left the Calvery Chapel Movement from Chuck Smith. The guy told me he left because it became more about money and less about the Lord Jesus
@@ryeradio80 we have one became it 16 years ago and is like a cult by the way they try to control people now . When Chuck died sadly things got changed. I was part of it since 1979 actually and basically grew out of it and realized their messages are shallow now thus i grew out of it and many never did that ( not a pride issue please). I know as teachers do.
Have to disagree with #5 and #6. Prophet's prophecies have to be proven in time but are not always about things that are to happen right away and past miracles can't always be proven. I'm not walking around with a camera to prove I received deliverance of healing. There is a principle of faith. Yes, we witness the power and miracles but we know truth by faith to begin with.
Totally agree. Timing of a prophecy is not always clear to the one giving the prophecy either. God tells what He wants to tell and we are not to parse and pick it apart. Think how ashamed we would be to poke fun at someone who later turns out to have spoken Gods message. A terrible burden to be charged with for sure. Quiet discernment, sober listening and waiting to see are the best courses of action in my opinion as well.
But faith is not always needed. Jesus healed many who did not even say a thing to Him. Or their friends or family member had faith for them. Also, the healings are so so bad without follow up evidence..
I'm sorry brother you've had to deal with this nonsense. I dealt with it as well. Christianity has, for the most part, fallen to man's vain effort to try and appease God through man's works thinking Christ is some Boy Scout Troop leader rather than a graceful God. I had a church that tried to force me to tithe as well. When I read my Bible, and became a mid acts dispensationalist, I saw the tithe was strictly for the Jews in the Old Testament and did not apply to me as a gentile in this current dispensation of grace. I realized I could never come to God as a fallen man with my own works to appease a perfect God. Everything you mention, I have seen and it makes me sick because this is how Satan gets his talons into the church. There are many frauds as you know you misuse and abuse the Bible for personal gain. I just call theses churches, "Church Inc" because they run more like a MLM or business than a church using scriptures out of context for personal gain. It is disgusting because it is the very thing the pharisees did during Christs earthly ministry to the Kingdom Jews who followed Him during Christs time on earth.
Our former church had 5 + favouritism-they even had their own pet prophet-who just said the same as the Pastor had said recently. Multiple false predictions. We were ignored-they just wanted our time and money. Paradise Church in Adelaide. I dumped Church even since.
@susannah1066 Sorry for your experience but please don't give up on church. Even connect to a church with online members until you find an in person church. We were made /designed to stand together as Christians xx
Correct when it comes to giving the Old Testament us Jews had to give according to our covenant. There was no if ands or buts we had to give a certain amount. But today you live in a dispensation of Grace where you should give but should it's a choice you have to make. No one can force you to give your money no Pastor no one. Paul tells us we should give out of our heart. In the concept of don't give because you're pressured or because you want to look good in front of people give because you truly wish to give from the heart. To someone else without having to gain anything in return. That is a true gift. So you should give but give. But how the so-called churches today are using tithing is just complete and total insanity. Tithing today has nothing to do with actual Biblical tithing of the dispensation of Grace it is the tithing of the Old Testament choose my people back then. This is the problem with people today who don't rightly divide or understand dispensational theology.
This group of people, they tried to get me to join their religion. I just had been able to escape my family's cult cause I moved out of their house. These people acted very overly nice. That was, until they found out I'm a queer trans guy. In which case, they became the complete opposite.
In Christianity every thing you said has become the norm of Christian church, so many members unfortunately don’t see anything wrong with these practices.
Again there is no Miracles today in the dispensation of Grace we live in there is no Miracles there is no healings there is no speaking in tongues there is none of this. Speaking in tongues is actually speaking in a different language. These things were meant for the Jews in time past in order to get them to believe because the Jews require a sign. But the body of Christ doesn't have this today.
EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO UPROOT YOUR FAMILY N MOVE ! DO IT! CONTROLLING CHURCHES DON'T GET THE POINT ANY OTHER WAY SOMETIMES. PLUS IF THEY PRACTICE WITCHCRAFT IN SOME FORM OR FASHION YOU WANT TO MAKE A RUN FOR IT ! CULTS ENDANGER LIVES ANd BRAINWASH ANd CAUSE HATRed AMONGST MEMBERS !
Cult of personality is right ! If you visit a church and the people practically worship the pastor instead of Jesus, that is a huge red flag !
They always worship the pastor in the guise of “they’re honoring the anointing”🙄
Many do that very Sadly. My town increasingly has it getting scary. If you do not love the pastor to think of him all the time or not toss everything aside they think you are carnally minded or immature even if you been saved 35 years . A trap in ways because a small community it can take over or nobody will bother to listen to discuss it . You cannot talk of things without gossip about you in town and snitch on you so you think they control outside as well and actually try to do it.
Many of the few around do that and if you say that is wrong or unnecessary i guess you must be trouble . The do that on David Jeremiah as ive seen the church campus tv screen issue.
@@rofhiwamashige4764 and these who fail to know their bibles or are told they shouldnt know it that it is ego to. I went against idea the false prophets so called Anointed ones and they want you to think they only can send you to hell for not respecting or adurating them!! I'm a christian plainly and know by observation but then get ignored becuz I am not popular or socalled successful. Emphasize in all that I win all by just carrying on .These will be judged maybe severely by God.
@@rofhiwamashige4764 I am just one opposed to it in my town and by good conscience thru God i wont join that 'crowd". But boy they let you have it if one opposes worshipping the leader , which is against scripture and some deliberately do that thing which is accountable to God .
#2 really hits.
In my former church- we were highly encouraged to give money and told the more we give the more God will multiply- We were also told God is just waiting to bless us and we don't let him when we don't give money. It wasn't encouraging anyone to go out and look out for others but to give to the church. We preached on money more than any other topic. Followed by verses of "God loves a cheerful giver." I felt something was wrong with me because I wasn't cheerful about giving but more pressured and stressed about it.
Agreed friend. I experienced many of these as well. I would add "Using scripture out of context to motivate people." For example, Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some...Some pastors will use this to say you need to be at church every time the doors are open. If you're not you have backslidden. I love the Lord and now gravitate towards traditional churches instead of charismatic churches. Neither one is perfect but I find traditional churches focus on theological soundness vice emotional motivation.
Thanks, I've come out of many abusive churches.
This is a great video. I almost joined a church like this, who seemed so welcoming at first. But they are under the covering of a church with abusive practices. The last time I went, the people that were so kind and welcoming didn't even speak. And one woman even scowled at me as I walked through the door. Every week they give honor and praise to their pastor and his wife before the sermon starts. I've been in deep prayer for the strength to get out.
Some churches have members that almost try controlling what you do in town as if you not allowed freedom so thst a town can be as a cult.
@silentday4503 I didn't officially join, but it took a lot of strength to walk away.
Unfortunately, nowadays, churches have become money making establishments; It is the quickest way to make money.
I was shunned in a covert manner and it was only evident to me when I realised I was being discussed amongst the people who "pulled all the strings" so to speak. I as a volunteer was ostracised and not included with other volunteers. It broke my heart. I am an amiable person with insight into my own behaviour and if I had done something "wrong" I would be open to discuss it but all I can think is the Ministry team wanted me gone. Never again will I put myself in such a position. I cannot deal with secrecy and it's power position within a Church.
I believe you. It happens when you don't fall into line and submit to those who desire to rule over you and your life. I will never enter the church business building again.
Thank you for this. I’ve worked under an abusive pastor and this makes me feel like I’m not crazy.
This was good to hear. I’ve experienced most of this and knew it was messed up and abusive but couldn’t quite put it into words so well. Thanks.
I belonged to a church like that. They hit all 8. I'm so glad Yah woke me up and moved me out! Praying for the rest of the flock🙏
Happy to hear you still believe in the gifts ❤ great video
Church has scarred me. I will never go back to one ever again. I love Jesus and that is enough. The church just uses and abuses you and leaves you dry. BYE CHURCH lol!!
@Julie kuvakos I'm so sorry you experience this just know God loves you and he is a good father
Julie they’re not all bad, trust me, I’ve been there and worn the t shirt, but remember 1 thing, if you’re looking for the perfect church, you won’t find it, cos ultimately every building is filled with people, and no of us are perfect, and by walking away from the body of Christ like that, Satan is loving it, we not supposed to do this walk alone......
Omg I completely disagree!!! I think the system of the institution of the church is extremely toxic and terrible
@@juliekuvakos8924 well unless uv attend every single church out there then you wouldn’t know....., so it sounds to me like ur close to just making excuses and wanting to do ur faith on ur terms.....
Thank you for enlightening me
Just today, i was remembering how the husband of a lady at Church stared at me... It was not friendly, or warm, or the kind of friendly look in which you want to wave back or smile back... And like this so many other episodes until i learn from narcissistic spiritual abuse, and i left... Normality, kindness, welcoming... Is something else... And somewhere else...
This was a demonic stare. I get this a lot. They do it to spiritually cause you harm, to transfer evil over to you and to suck your life force out of you. In the Middle East it's called the Evil Eye. When this happens, do not make eye contact under any circumstances! Because if you do, you will be shocked at the evil you will see, and that's when they transfer evil to you.
Excellent content! Thank you very much for this.
I just got out of one
Praise GOD!
@@juliekuvakos8924 i also am one of the seeming few who know the bible well and in the know . I thought it be good to say .Pray for me too.
You made Jesus Christ proud
Also the elevation of certain members over others. An inner circle who are self congratulatory fueling each others popularity and relevance amongst the congregation. Leading to comments like....do you know who l am....as they lean in to a debate or discussion.
Every point he touched on is exactly what I've been through. Soon, I was the one spewing the same garbage. I am so sorry, so very sorry.
I forgive you that but seek to write a booklet on what you saw in all comparing things. Just something will be helpful even to.myself i would purchase it and so get the word out i plead you and no pressure from me.
I was shunned by parishioners at the Catholic church that I attended for not confirming to some of their doctrines. All I did was ask questions. Thier is a pecking order that takes place within the church, it reminds me of the jealousy that takes place within the work place. It's as if they are competing with each other to be the priest's golden child. I would describe these people as competitors striving for a gold medal. They certainly don't adhere to the Beatitudes.
INDEED IS correct and biblical truth they are in error big time .
I was and is abused in the catholic church big time. Still trying to detach.
I too have been treated badly. A little gossip and away we go. The gossip came from the pastor. When I went into the confessional I felt he just wanted the scoop. No. I went to another church to confess. Talk about dirty looks from the heartless women. Better not turn the head of the parochial pastor, you will be destroyed. I went to the Bishop.
This will heal many hearts. Thank you.
It’s so sad that a lot of us here because we all are or had experience this.
So true
Wonderful sanity on your part! Thankyou!!
I am hated by many people in the church. I have also seen where pastors have said that they hate the people in their congregation.
I have come out of a cult. The problem is that I have found myself in a mainstream church things are going well then .........change of leadership then the new leader will bring in unhealthy things into the church. It’s horrible. I find myself then in conflict because even though the church itself isn’t bad ie a baptist church I went to but the leader used some abusive manipulation. He wouldn’t listen to me I got really angry and he told me to leave. He just didn’t get it. I was telling him that the elderly members were complaining to me as a greeter that the music was too loud. They had to walk out some due to hearing aids. He said it’s not his fault his music leader was responsible for the music. I told him he is passing the buck and not taking responsibility as senior pastor. That’s when he said If your not happy here then leave. Charming so I left. He was working on his doctorate while he was the pastor. I have heard as soon as he was qualified he left the church for greener pastures. I wasn’t the only one leaving many left. Good source and true my daughter stayed in the church as she had a lot of friends who all left. Covid has shut the church down and the new pastor hasn’t had a good opportunity to develop the church. I am not kidding satan is ramping up spiritual deception in all churches
You are right on! We have left so many abusive churches. The leaders get by with lies and serious sins and the people on the receiving end are shamed and have to get out. Nobody is safe to tell if they are being bullied, harassed, silenced, and rejected. These people are hungry for power and adulation and they want to be served, not serve. Satan is definitely using these people who do not have the Spirit to push the godly out the door. I feel Jesus is removing the lampstand. I can't feel His presence in any church anymore. So sad.
And my town so confined at the edges of california desert and has more than one became a cult .One spiritually dangerous as they will send persons to harass you or make you guilty for not obeying them. Whole towns can have cult type personalities who are not going to go.away . Pray for me i can be strong and keep hungry to eat the truth that others try to lie to me in the town ! Pray God miraculously moves me away from . Please.
4:50 when you said you are a conriunst I hit subscribe. Yes, thsnk you. Its great finding sound believers that know God still speaks but hyper charismania needs some reigning in.
Thanks for sharing. This is very accurate information.
'church' is the living body of Christ, with each believer being led by God/Christ/Holy Spirit and living it NOT these religious 'houses of men', you cannot 'GO' to church you ARE the church, but unfortunately many do not see this - please do not let 'religion' put you off true walk with God x
Yes but so many try to lie and tell you are backslidden for missing their abusive church and ways . If you know the bible well they will shut you up or ignore as a pile of dirt even . They dont even respect knowing scripture well or will say you have pride but the bible has to study it on your own even .
YES! 💯
Wow - I just tried to share something on here and it says that my "request contains an invalid argument". Considering I was trying to share a great deal about my experience in an abusive church and a testimony of what God did, I'd say UA-cam has some issues.
Try sharing again? "invalid argument" is a programming term, so I think the UA-cam server just glitched out.
I heard from this old man who was always telling about what God was telling him while he was on his tractor. Then one day he fell off his tractor and couldn't ride it any more. Frankly, this strengthened my faith.
Can you send me a the link of Derek Prince when he repented from this philosophy? I saw it but I CAN'T FIND THIS!!! I CAN IDENTIFY WITH ALL OF THESE!!!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Prince#The_Shepherding_Movement_controversy
Probably related to Erik Prince and Black Water.
The Wikipedia article said Derek Prince eventually left the Shepherding Movement. Maybe he had a change of heart. I remember hearing one of his videos where he said God dealt with him and his wife severely about pride.
Ive been stuck in one for a lifetime (baptist, presbyterian) and cant get away. Even if you leave they find and harras you.
I pray we'll be able to get out!!!!!
Listen up......When they approach you DO NOT communicate with them......they WILL soon get the message. These people must have your responses.....this is how they "keep" you in their power. When you STOP responding, you have won the day!
@@uriahpeep1753 Most importantly block their numbers too.
Yes, Hillsong Church for one
I really like what you are saying.
Thousands of dollars disappear from church funds and no one dared to question the pastor for fear of retaliation 😮 I was visiting a church on a Sunday the pastor from the pulpit called out someone and said that person was robbing God because he didn’t tithe the pastor then had that person thrown out for not tithing he was set as an example to non Tithers, this was the same pastor that told us that God will curse us and our children if we don’t give him 10% of all our financial earnings! Many were guilted into giving I ran out of that church never to return.
This sort of behaviour happens in a lot of churches, unfortunately.
Wow....Amen brother!
We are to worship god and Jesus Christ not worship the pastor that can spirituality abuse you
I forgive though, I'm just always reminded of it I can forgive its hard to forget
Never forget a lesson learned!
People deserve the right to read the bible and to have their own opinions. The bible is not complicated and mysterious. Read the bible and talk to God for yourself. If any church or religious leader tries to control this area of your life, that should be a 'red flag'.
Sadly the church i attended now the pastor is telling me to toss all i was taught by God of the bible as if its just old fashion junk . Mwjor red flag and frustrating situation and pray God strengthen me from the sky above to talk very boldly of real truths.
So very few people talk about Derek Prince. Goodness thanks for this video.
What are your thoughts on him?
I have watched a lot of his sermons and listened to a lot of him...
@@Colt8722 False teacher. I used to listen to him a lot too. But some things bothered me so I did a deep dive into his teachings and found out a lot of interesting things. This dude is considered "one of the greats" like CS Lewis, both are frauds.
@@p.r.9982 who do you consider to be examples of true teachers of God’s Word?
Derek Mr. fast talking blabbing blah Phoney bs.
@@franprudhomme4506 huh?
You have described Wayman Mitchell and his fellowship churches and his pastors of these fellowship churches
Kc Ll yup yup ... the whole time I went to the potters house church I questioned ... is this a cult ... it’s very hard to figure out at first because most of the people there seem so devoted to God
@@chastain2825 we have one in my town and i only visited it like 16 years ago at first spot it was. People think naively it is all good as many otherwise informed people in my town think they know bit know nothing much and some want it that way i found out fairly recently .
I’ve been admonished this weekend for sharing my thoughts on the worship band. I’m the guitarist and I shared it with one of our backup singers. She joined in and expanded on my feelings and then went to the worship leader. It’s happened twice now. Any feelings of unrest must be shared with the pastor and no-one else.
I’m new to the Pentecostal movement so I was surprised I was reprimanded. Saying anything about someone is gossip even if it’s just an observation. I’m wondering if this is part of “heavy shepherding?” That’s the message I’m getting. Any thoughts would be appreciated…
It depends on what you said. What did you say? Was it constructive and out of love? Was it something that should have been said in private rather than in front of people?
@@joshua1383 It was said in private to one person. I just said the music was too complicated. She went on about how the worship leader always changes key. Nevertheless she went and told the worship leader what I said. It was nothing that was negative. I feel like you can’t comment and it’s a stance of control and seen as gossiping. Now that I’ve calmed down, I think the leader has over reacted. I won’t put up with too much more…
@@conartist267 I totally understand what it's like to be in your position. I personally don't think what you said was wrong in and of itself. However, God looks at a person's heart above all else. I don't think that you were gossiping, and that a healthy church should have leaders who are open to questioning and suggestions. Perhaps next time, take it directly to the leader or the person that you want to address, but do it in private. God be with your heart, and may the Holy Spirit purify it of any anger. May the Spirit help you to forgive those who you feel have wronged you, so that you too may be forgiven of any of your own faults. I'll lift this up in prayer to God in Jesus' name before I sleep tonight.
If allowed I endorse the book titled 'The Marks of Cults' by Dave Breese and very good on the bigger important general traits of any kind of church as a cult and even newer 'cults'.
I still endorse it today and I forgot I commented about this likely on the eve of sad sad Covid trash..
Thanks for sharing. We need to realize that even church has its faults too.
The ones cultlike is those might discipline you for not going with the program or seem to want you be naive and thus it is not mere faults sometimes .They play games .if you put on a plastic smile and dont question one little thing they play they like you.
A lot of faults. Christians excuse themselves by saying that the church is not perfect, but it is one thing to sin out of ignorance and another to sin treacherously against certain members of the church. Many fakes are inside just to keep others out or to make those who are truly seeking Christ
See I am going to a 'bible study' at a place in my town connected to a bigger mega ministry and i already feel lots of unusual spiritual discomfort about it on the account of the ''bolder'' or over-bold zeal they have that seems so much 'louder' than God's character in how He does things ,though the people there claim to be for God or represent God's ways or person. They automatically 'look' as if they represent a true ministry or witness , yet are showing a potential spirit of condemnation that's mild at first ! I seem to sense this strongly ( this cannot be normal or true Godly convictions based in biblical scruples ) , just something is not right .
One feels fearful that one has to look or become only as the others in the group are to measure up to their talk or style of acting or sharing points there. I do not think I can really be myself so much there and relax like it should be and or the session is hurried as well. A christian shouldn't feel pressured to become in a hour period what the others seem like and say only the exact words in sharing and not be able to talk about common good things like a pet cat or a hobby or a food or such .I felt like I cannot speak of usual daily activity or thoughts that one is supposed to only talk of all the agenda as if there is only some time for that and nothing else . THIS IS NOT denying self I can tell even if it seems to be ( God does not put us in strict exact bondage ) .The people get zealous about the leaders and seem to think they must please them as if they than please Gods too and the zeal thus seems so blind sided and artificial or over done . And it seems it will get abusive to those who do not fit in .BUT I really would hope that none of the above is really happening , but likely is or will increase or start happening where I have to leave the group like i did from the other one about 2 years ago ..I do not like how the leader-pastor is and leads and says certain things that unnaturally shock the congregation which they think he is an incredible person . If anything please pray for me to clarify and escape from any problems that can happen .
If you feel like you are being forced to imitate a behavior, that is not of God. In 1 Peter 5:3 it says that leaders ought to be good examples to their congregations. Out of love for God we ought to want to follow the example of our leaders because of their God-fearing character. Imitating leaders because of social pressure is not good.
You've put words to how I've been feeling at church. It's such an odd atmosphere. I kept thinking it was me because I didn't dress and talk like them
Yvonne Talamantez is a volunteer coordinator at First Assembly of God in San Antonio who is a self-serving narcissist. Yvonne Talamantez has no boundaries and has to be everywhere in the church, babysitting the lead pastor's children to gain favor, requesting to take children home instead of letting staff do so. Boasting of her works at all times, walking around with a look on her face like she is better than others. She creates a toxic environment by privately shaming other members, that she doesn't personally like, to her friends to get them to dislike the person. She causes discord like she is in middle school. #firstagsa #yvonnetalamantez
Do you believe in a church that says once saved always saved? should a person leave this church?
No no no do not leave for that reason .We are saved by what Jesus accomplished on the cross as He atoned for all our sins ..everyone . Did not leave any out and we cannot save ourselves scriptures does actually back it up . Study hatd your bible and you will be blessed .
Did anyone manage to leave such a church without those leaders following you spiritually through the minister and astral projections etc?
Astral projections? No Christian should be doing that.
Really agree with #3 "heavy shepherding", pyramidal hierarchy and not submitting to one another. Have witnessed this first-hand and opened my eyes to other signs.
Obviously #7 "extreme control" and # 8 "shinning" also.
Thank you for these videos 🙏
God bless
Do you read the 1611 king james bible ? If you dont mind me asking and I agree there is a lot of what your saying in the church's today and it saddens me I have experienced things myself but by the grace of god we can learn and pray over these things if we trust and are walking the narrow road and have faith in jesus christ we must always look to jesus in time of need and have faith in him, people do rely far to much on what a preacher, pastor has to say instead of studying the bible for answers because they are in my opinion too lazy to read or study and using time as a excuse , well make time for god I say. Also god tells us to search the scriptures if the bible says contrary to what a pastor, or preacher says then stand up and tell them so in front of the congregation the bible tells us to do this with scriptures.
I'm not a King James Onlyist but yes I do read the 1611 KJV.
We though are not saved by works as scripture and the narrow gate is Jesus how were saved once and for all. Many are apostates the bible will say clearly having no genuine sort of conscience.
Them not allowing one to talk about your trials because they say you are making it happen, that they say that the power of death and life are in the toungue.
Them fighting with education and using the text to twist it when it says that fools lean on their own umderstanding.
Saying everything is Imspired by the Holy Spirit then preaching from their emotions.
Them doing many deliveramces on me and speaking to me and using everything I say agaimst me and accusing me of being the demons speaking. Making suicidal, depressed and amxious people mpre suicidal.
Someone was making fun of me because I was smoking and told me Jesus would never be good enough for me :( I was repenting and its not easy to quit smoking... I wanted to honor my body but I did not feel very encouraged
I'm sorry that happened to you. Jesus is faithful and just to forgive our sin when we confess it to him.
There is actually no biblical commandment against smoking.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr and nothing to endorse it as well but it being an addictive substance I would think the way proverbs speaks against being drunk it would have mentioned smoking as well if that was available in those times
@@michaelmerck7576 Being drunk affects your self control and your behavior. To me, it's different.
The church I left, worship the pastor. They also were very legalistic.
Great teaching!! 🔥🔥
I want to know this: If ALL of the OT Laws have been done away with and we can eat pork & crab, we have to dishonor the 7th day Sabbath & now go to church on the first day of the week and we're free from the ceremonial washings & such, then why is that good old, convenient 10%tithing law still in effect? Ive asked preachers that & boy, they stammer & can never give me a clear answer. Smh 😖 😕
MARCI'A THE HOOLIGAN , read JAMES 2:10. If you know the law then why are you breaking it? Truth is there are over a thousand laws (commandments) throughout the whole Bible. It is impossible not to stumble from time to time, thank JESUS for Grace through Salvation! But if you knowingly break a law....over and over.... well then.....
Ephesians 2:8-9 might help you also. There is a difference in the laws and good deeds. Know why you are doing something, pray about it.
Name a person, just one who hasnt repeated sins they k ow are sins and cannot stop?
Also Jesus Christ came to fulfil the law not destroy it. We are filthy sinners no matter how "good" you and or your works are. Its why we need to be saved- one on one personal relationship with God.
@Nancy Hollo but saturday is still the 7th day of the week!
Like it or not. That didn't change!
@ I know that! But here we go nobody can tell me why we must tithe and yes, I give love offerings but it's OK to break the Sabbath. Since the 4th Commandment is now null + void. Then is it OK that, when my elderly father becomes a grouch and starts yelling then I can backhand him across the face? Is it OK for me to go smash out my neighbor's windows with a baseball bat because I wish I had a pretty yard like theirs?
Of course not!
WHY are certain Commandments done away with but only the ones that may be inconvenient to us?
And I'm aware that we are not justified by our works--I never once said we were.
1 John chapter 4 clearly states try the spirits to see if they are truly from the Lord. If not avoid it.
Spot on
One lady judge and gossip about me about my parenting. In few months, she got involved in system twice. The second time she lost her rights. The Bible is true don’t judge and regarding the measure. Some ladies was laughing at her in back of the church. Jesus didn’t died for us to be control in a church.
An abusive church does not allow sound doctrine to guide its teaching or practice, it places a higher value on experiences and feelings. Therefore those who are likewise disposed are accepted while those of a more scholarly mindset are ignored at best, accused of lacking in love at worst. When a church's leadership, pastors/elders, have a poor knowledge of the Scriptures and rely on Holy Spirit experience for direction they fail the sheep they are called to shepherd and error creeps in to the church. Churches like this are often abusive as they cannot tolerate opinions or concerns about what they teach and practice and in defending their stances they exercise harsh discipline over those who appear to threaten them. Many of the things you describe flourish in this type of environment and there are many hurt sheep - thank goodness Jesus does not abandon his sheep but looks out for them and promises to keep them in his fold. This may mean leaving
Has anyone had any negative or abusive or unnatural odd experiences in any of the calvary chapels out there ?? They seem to not be what they once were .They seem to think they are the only ones going to heaven .
I've met a few people who have left the Calvery Chapel Movement from Chuck Smith. The guy told me he left because it became more about money and less about the Lord Jesus
@@ryeradio80 we have one became it 16 years ago and is like a cult by the way they try to control people now . When Chuck died sadly things got changed. I was part of it since 1979 actually and basically grew out of it and realized their messages are shallow now thus i grew out of it and many never did that ( not a pride issue please). I know as teachers do.
@@ryeradio80 hint i am jongle
Keep warning potential victims.
Have to disagree with #5 and #6. Prophet's prophecies have to be proven in time but are not always about things that are to happen right away and past miracles can't always be proven. I'm not walking around with a camera to prove I received deliverance of healing. There is a principle of faith. Yes, we witness the power and miracles but we know truth by faith to begin with.
Totally agree. Timing of a prophecy is not always clear to the one giving the prophecy either. God tells what He wants to tell and we are not to parse and pick it apart. Think how ashamed we would be to poke fun at someone who later turns out to have spoken Gods message. A terrible burden to be charged with for sure. Quiet discernment, sober listening and waiting to see are the best courses of action in my opinion as well.
But faith is not always needed. Jesus healed many who did not even say a thing to Him. Or their friends or family member had faith for them. Also, the healings are so so bad without follow up evidence..
I'm sorry brother you've had to deal with this nonsense. I dealt with it as well. Christianity has, for the most part, fallen to man's vain effort to try and appease God through man's works thinking Christ is some Boy Scout Troop leader rather than a graceful God. I had a church that tried to force me to tithe as well. When I read my Bible, and became a mid acts dispensationalist, I saw the tithe was strictly for the Jews in the Old Testament and did not apply to me as a gentile in this current dispensation of grace. I realized I could never come to God as a fallen man with my own works to appease a perfect God. Everything you mention, I have seen and it makes me sick because this is how Satan gets his talons into the church. There are many frauds as you know you misuse and abuse the Bible for personal gain. I just call theses churches, "Church Inc" because they run more like a MLM or business than a church using scriptures out of context for personal gain. It is disgusting because it is the very thing the pharisees did during Christs earthly ministry to the Kingdom Jews who followed Him during Christs time on earth.
any church G12 vision related checks all these.RUN honey .
Thanks for sharing this. In Jesus' name, I pray that these pastors repent. Many of them think they are doing the right thing.
Our former church had 5 + favouritism-they even had their own pet prophet-who just said the same as the Pastor had said recently. Multiple false predictions. We were ignored-they just wanted our time and money. Paradise Church in Adelaide. I dumped Church even since.
@susannah1066 Sorry for your experience but please don't give up on church. Even connect to a church with online members until you find an in person church. We were made /designed to stand together as Christians xx
Mormon church: tick... tick... tick... tick... tick... tick... tick... tick...
Mormon is Masonic.
Exactly!!! I'm an ex now and the harassment is terrible
@@betJohnson I was basically retaliated against for reporting United Methodist Jesuit Mazonic abuse and completely discredited and disfellowshipped.
@@KristinaUSA-x5n I've been disowned. Can't wait to be with Jesus, the Scoffers are out in full force.
My church qualifies as an abusive church😑
I’ve been in 7 dysfunctional churches; I’ve left church for life.
Can anyone relate to a popularity contest?
I cannot get, out help, I was being watched/ manipulated.
I hope you're out now?
@@longstoryshort8657 yeah im out now
Bob M a graduate from trinity life bible college familiar
Been there for 4 years and these people still callin me out. I'm trying to get out!
Stop trying to get out.......simply cut off all communication with this group. They will get the message.
@@uriahpeep1753 thank you!
Correct when it comes to giving the Old Testament us Jews had to give according to our covenant. There was no if ands or buts we had to give a certain amount. But today you live in a dispensation of Grace where you should give but should it's a choice you have to make. No one can force you to give your money no Pastor no one. Paul tells us we should give out of our heart. In the concept of don't give because you're pressured or because you want to look good in front of people give because you truly wish to give from the heart. To someone else without having to gain anything in return. That is a true gift. So you should give but give. But how the so-called churches today are using tithing is just complete and total insanity. Tithing today has nothing to do with actual Biblical tithing of the dispensation of Grace it is the tithing of the Old Testament choose my people back then. This is the problem with people today who don't rightly divide or understand dispensational theology.
This group of people, they tried to get me to join their religion. I just had been able to escape my family's cult cause I moved out of their house. These people acted very overly nice. That was, until they found out I'm a queer trans guy. In which case, they became the complete opposite.
😢
I did also.
In Christianity every thing you said has become the norm of Christian church, so many members unfortunately don’t see anything wrong with these practices.
Aren't all churches like that?
Good points given.
Jesus doesn’t like what the pastors in their church misuse the word of god
Yeah we’re outta there. There’s freedom in the BLOOD.
The false revelation is so funny 😂
Is also scary when used as a kind of weapon against good souls ..christians .
Shout out to the international Christian church at universities
People are very judgmental
Again there is no Miracles today in the dispensation of Grace we live in there is no Miracles there is no healings there is no speaking in tongues there is none of this. Speaking in tongues is actually speaking in a different language. These things were meant for the Jews in time past in order to get them to believe because the Jews require a sign. But the body of Christ doesn't have this today.
Don't join WELS (Wisconsin evangelical lutheran synod)
Hello brothers and sisters in Christ, your relationships should go directly to God, not middle scum bag institutions called churches. Okay, dock.
Been there for 4 years and these people still callin me out. I'm trying to get out!
EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO UPROOT YOUR FAMILY N MOVE ! DO IT! CONTROLLING CHURCHES DON'T GET THE POINT ANY OTHER WAY SOMETIMES. PLUS IF THEY PRACTICE WITCHCRAFT IN SOME FORM OR FASHION YOU WANT TO MAKE A RUN FOR IT ! CULTS ENDANGER LIVES ANd BRAINWASH ANd CAUSE HATRed AMONGST MEMBERS !
They won't leave you till they see you in another church
They will receive judgment from God when they stand before that Day.