ARROW IS NOT BATMAN
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2020
- I've said it before. My least favorite part of The Arrowverse... is it's namesake, Arrow.
I like The Flash, I like Supergirl, Legends Of Tomorrow is good from time to time.... but Arrow? Not for me.
Today I'm here to lay down why... and Batman is a big contributing factor in that.
#GreenArrow #Batman #Arrow #CW #Arrowverse #CWverse #TheBatman
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I can't remember who said:
At the end of the day Peter Parker takes off his Spiderman costume, Clark Kent takes off his Superman costume, Tony Stark takes off his Ironman costume, and Batman puts on his Bruce Wayne costume.
So awesome
But Clark Kent is Superman's costume
Actually it comes from David Caradine in Kill Bill. His point was about the uniqueness of Superman. He was implying that his uniqueness is that Clark Kent is actually his disguise, while SUPERMAN is actually WHO HE IS. And that is unique to Superman. Later on, people wanted to extend it to Batman, but it is forced. Batman is actually a suffering hero who never got over the tragic death of his parents and who seeks to make sense of his pain and his drama by investing his soul to redeem his city. But neither of the two roles he plays is really him, he is more a ghost than anything else, because Bruce Wayne never left the street where his parents were murdered.
ua-cam.com/video/eWTJIBGNId0/v-deo.html
ariel betti No no you got it completely wrong, Clark Kent has the same spirit as Superman, while Bruce Wayne is kind of a douche, and Batman is who he is.
Bruce Wayne died when he was a kid.
CW: Can we make a show about Batman
DC: Nope
CW: OK. Can we make a show about the Green Arrow and make him like Batman
DC: Yes
Pretty much the whole memo
I mean green arrow originally copied Batman anyways so
How is Arrow a copycat of Batman?
Yes, there both Vigilanties, Billionares, lost there parents and use tons of gadgets with their own "family"(Team Arrow being Green Arrow, John Diggle, Felicity Smoke and Curtis+Wildog)(Batman, Batgirl, Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson, Alfred,thousand more lmao)
But Arrow is much more comeditcal, let one snarky and sarcastic with a big ego, as Batman just is so stale and serious.
Yes, Oliver and Bruce are alike. But.. Arrow and Batman are completely different.
And it's too bad since in the comics, Green Arrow is light hearted and charismatic hero with a sense of humor. But in the TV show they pretty much made him Batman with a bow and arrow. :/
What is it about White people and Bad jokes
Green Arrow in the comics: mouthy liberal with a jovial personality
CW: everyone *but* Green Arrow is a mouthy liberal
Indeed
The arrow was the best in first season and rest was just liberal
IDK second season wasn’t terrible
IDK he is the one who’s supposed to be liberal
@@HrittikAzad oliver queen in the comics is pretty much a SJW. For whatever reason, CW did away with that
"I want a relationship like Joker and Harley Quinn!"
Still hate when people say that
As bad as Suicide Squad is. The thing I hate the most, is the way they portrayed Harley and Jokers relationship. "He messed with the Queen, and no one messes with his Queen." **(Vomits)**
People say that?
@@USpatriot741776 After Suicide Squad came out. So anyone who didn't read a comic or watch Batman animated series did not know.
I swear
Harley Quinn is better alone or with another team/love interest
when the arrowverse started, it was obvious flash, green arrow, and supergirl were being used as stand-ins for superman, batman and wonder woman.
Boi He’s talking about his role, not his level of impact or fame. DC’s big 3(the Trinity) is WW, Superman, and Batman. However the DC CW Trinity is Green arrow(Bats), Flash(Supes), and Supergirl(WW)
Superman is getting his own show with lois
And batwoman is the stand in
Deon Harris Superman and Batwoman were after thoughts. Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl are the DC CW big 3. Even look at the ads and marketing with every crossover. Earth X is a great example
Yeah I’m gonna have to disagree with you there are no stand ins and also Supergirl wasn’t even apart of the arrowverse when she first started
CW: Let’s make Green Arrow Batman, but with a bow and arrow.
Let's redo buffy but make it the green guy with the arrows.
Ffs dumbass i know you could never figure this out on your own, but being dark was not invented by Batman i know shocker! ARROW is the story of a man broken by years of trauma and losing his father, his ideals, his humanity & trying to reclaim that. Batman is the story of a boy who lost his parents, for no good reason, in an alleyway by a no-good crook & trying to find the strength to get back up and be a person who can love. But hey you're a probably just a little kid so dont take this to heart. I'm sure you'll grow up like most people.
@@ellomedsdjcn7021 exactly
el lomedsdjcn Bro, Oliver in the show was trained by Rás al Gul(Batman), Talia and Huntress, and Deathstroke being in his rogues gallery(Batman)
And make him kill people even though the most interesting stories of Batman come from his inability to kill.
"My parents were murdered punched to death... I WILL NEVER USE MY FISTS!! The fists are the tool of traitorous cowards."
Kickman. He only kicks and maybe slaps, but never punches.
@Master of Qwes i see what you did here
@Master of Qwes Ha!
@Master of Qwes , Zeff in the manga of One Piece cut off his own leg and ate his leg if you were making fun of Sanji’s backstory.
CW Arrow is 50% Arrow and 50% Christian Bale Batman...
Danny Benhur
Id say 80% Batman if you include plot devices.
@@DmanDice *& 20% OF A CRAPPY FIGHT SHONEN*
And christian bale Batman is only like 30 % Batman from the comic books the rest is some made up shit to make Nolan's vision more realistic
@@baruchjn I can't stand what Nolan did to Bane. From what I saw and heard Bane is reduced to talia's bitch
10% Arrow, 40% cheesy drama and bad writing, 50% Batman, 1000% multicolor leather jacket costumes
Perhaps a future video comparing Smallville’s Green Arrow versus Arrow’s Green Arrow is warranted.
Nah, They are practicly the same only that The Arrow is more darker
@@Logan93000 Not at all, Smallville's Green Arrow behaved like comic book Green Arrow from his political positions, rebellious behavior, use of trick arrows and more endearing personality
@@ii3lazelordz267 yeah, you got a point right there. I was talking about he assembling the Smallville´s justice league, like if he was batman
I would love to see that.
Green Arrow was great in *Smallville* , but damn, the old Black Canary really sucked ^^'
In *Arrow* I actually liked Sarah (Caity Lotz) 's Canary,
I really, really disliked Laurel's BC... and it took me a while to get used to Dinah Drake's.
My favorite BC from the Arrowverse remains the reformed Black Siren, finally they gave Katie Cassidy something solid.
The OG Laurel's chara/lines sucked so bad, I'm glad she got an opportunity to redeem herself...
Please talk more about how they murdered the black canary and Green Arrow relationship and instead... we had felicity.
Naquin Green I actually liked Diaz. He was the best thing about S6 and the only villain after Prometheus that was worth a damn
Bobby Shewan but to see somebody who fought Ra’s struggle that much with him was just annoying
Jewlicity*
He did have a relationship with black canary infact 2 of them
@@andm9766 he was intentionally struggling to show anotoly how Diaz was a liar and a huge cheater too.
Oliver Queens personality has always been more like Tony stark than Bruce Wayne that's were he got the goatee
Let's face it, the CW doesn't give a damn about these characters. They do what they want to do and as we've seen they can't even do that well.
They’re cared in season one and two but not the other ones
@@walterwhite8649 true. After that they cared more about pleasing teenage girls and there fever dream ship abomination we all know as Olicity. I found season 3 very mediocre but I absolutely despise season 4. I felt season 5 was a return to form but then Olicity happened again and down went the show again.
Deadhead 83 Slade Wilson is one of the best villains in arrow
@@walterwhite8649 never said he wasn't but I definitely agree. But his villainy came from a bottle and calmed down when he was cured. Prometheus for me was better. He was just a naturally born twisted human being. When it came to mind games he took it to even more personal levels.
The CW turn shows that don't start out being about romance and shipping into shows that are only about romance and shipping.
Clock King IS an Arrow villain that was stolen by Batman the Animated Series.
Deathstroke was a Titans villain. Not Batman. That's a very recent thing.
Plus The Dark Archer does work for Ra’s Al Ghul in the comics, which has put Green Arrow & Ra’s Al Ghul on a collision course many times.
@@Linklex7 True but ra's never looked at green arrow as a worthy successor, or at least that's what aware of.
@@gra9 green arrow is nowere as skilled as batman batman knows 127 martials and batman is smarter and has more money he has 9.9 billion in his bank account and has about 30 billion in his company batman is ra al ghul true successor and anyway talia loves batman anyway so win win
@@Linklex7 ra al ghul woud destroy arrow
@@senshaw6640 did you read my comment properly?
I guess many people don't know this but CW producers actually wanted to make a batman show but Warner Bros wouldnt give them the rights to make it (batman is DC's golden cash cow after all). The producers still wanted to make a batman show after all and decided to use Green Arrow since he had similar skills. Was I dissapointed that they made him a batman clone and threw away his famous trick arrows? Yes, very. But I come to like this Oliver queen as well. This is DC we're are talking about. There's a huge ass multiverse so I just chalk this up as an Oliver from Earth 48 or something.
So is that why they dont show batman in batwoman?
@@aliffiyaalhani5050 yeah and its better with no batman because the show is awful
@@itstrending8440 true
I’m pretty sure that they wanted to make a Batman show but plans were already laid out for “Gotham”
I think The MCU and Deadpool got many of us pumped for lighthearted and humorous superheroes. So that’s why people are not happy with how they changed Oliver Queen if they had done the opposite turning a serious character into a funny one most people would have been happy about the change.
Tony Stark in the comics is much more serious than he was in the MCU. I think going from serious to funny is generally more accepted than going from funny to serious though there are exceptions.
Anyway I don’t mind this more serious oliver Queen actually it’s a good thing that proved Green arrow is a pretty flexible character than can be done successfully either as a serious character or a lighthearted one just like Tony Stark. Some you change and it’s like nope it doesn’t work this way but others are super flexible that every writer can change however they if done well.
Actually Clock King was originally Green Arrow’s enemy from the comics, we just remember Clock King as Batman’s enemy because of the animated series.
How many people have seen the green arrow for decades: A sarcastic, simple going, outdoor uncle who visits on the weekends
How the cw sees arrow: An edgy, 30 year old, chiseled-bodied assassin.
Ewan McGregor as Obi wan would I think be the perfect template for Green Arrow.
I agree.
You are very wise and I am very proud of you, Adam.
I think Jax teller from sons of anarchy would be better.
But Stephen Amell is and always will be the best Green Arrow.
@Chantip Chea Yes, he is the best Green Arrow.
I've always seen Green Arrow as the quirky handsome fun-loving guy that always sees the humor in things. DCAU's JL shows show Oliver the best, that's what I think Green Arrow AKA Oliver Queen as a character should be. In the CW show they just turn him into a brooding emo-edgelord, and I'm a huge fan of Batman, but I'll admit that Batman is an edgelord. This is why Black Canry's relationship with Oliver is so good, and thet completely miss that in the show since Oliver isn't like how he is in the comics. Injustice also shows Green Arrow really well, and he made me laugh more than once in the game's story, even though I have a lot of problems with the game's story, but Green Arrow is one of the few strengths in that game. Btw I love DCAU Green Arrow, that's my definitive version of him.
The best version of Green Arrow was definitely in Justice League Unlimited. Great actor, great writing, just really likable down to Earth hero who cares about the little guy. If they make an Arrow movie I hope they'll make it the REAL Green Arrow and not Batman Lite.
In fact DCAU is the best version of these characters, period. BRING IT BACK!!!
@@whodatninja439 showcase on green arrow was amazing too
JLU hit it out of the park for me. Going from that to this was not fun, and just made me skip the Arrowverse altogether.
Oh what, the best version of a comic book character is the one done by Bruce Timm? What a total shock.
@@willchurch8376 I think in recent years Bruce Timm has lost his touch. Look at the Killing Joke animated movie. Personally I give Paul Dini more credit than Bruce Timm
Injustice really made me love Green Arrow. He’s so cocky yet well meaning.
As cringe as it was, Smallville got a lot closer to an accurate portrayal of Green Arrow than Arrow did.
But the Arrow verse version is better.
@@trevturp7687 smallville one was closer to how he was in the comics i like the cw more tho
@@nkuniverse7856 I know, but Stephen Amell’s version is better in every way, besides the fact that his personality isn’t like his comic counterpart, but that actually might have been a great change from the source material.
@@trevturp7687 i agree
@@nkuniverse7856 Thank you for agreeing with me.
This version of Green Arrow is based largely off the Longbow Hunters arc in the comics, where he is pushed to kill. Season one even uses the same characters in the flashbacks with Shado and Fyers. Despite what everyone wants to think this grimdark version of Ollie is based off one of his most popular comic storylines. Anyways, about the villains:
Half those villains aren't Batman villains. Deathstroke has always been a Titans villain and the only thing making people think otherwise was his part in Arkham Origins. Clock King has been featured almost exclusively in Green Arrow comics over the last decade or so, I'll give you Deadshot and a few others but you need to keep in mind they were set up for a Suicide Squad that made one appearance and then got axed after season 2 because of the movie announcement. They weren't brought on just to have him take down a couple Batman villains. The only real Batman villain he had was Ra's al Ghul, and fans tore them apart for it. After that they made the show pretty exclusively GA based. We ended up with Prometheus, and then a lot of newer characters from the New 52 and Rebirth like Richard Dragon (Diaz), Emiko, and an organization called the Longbow Hunters (no relation to the previously mentioned comic arc).
👏👏👏
Facts! Thank you for this. This feels like an review by someone who’s only read SOME comics
Prometheus isn't a Green Arrow villain, he's an alternate version of Bruce Wayne in the comics.
Also Firefly, Anarky, Bronze Tiger, Talia Al Ghul, and the League of Assassins are all Batman Villains (just like Ra's Al Ghul & Deadshot). And Brother Blood is a Titans villain.
@@justinbryan6249 Didn't Oliver kill Prometheus in the comics?
I think when it comes to Green arrow´s character, Smallville´s version came pretty close in my opinion :)
😂😂😂😂😂
Yet they botched the romance with Black Canary then repeated it on Arrow with the same hook up of Oliver and a blonde computer genius girl
Didn't even know that he was in that show. Probably because I never watched it.
@@Iwillone that´s true but i referred mostly to the fact that he was more lighthearted and more of a jokester on Smallville compared to Arrow :)
tine djuric green arrow is supposed to be like a jokester
I’ll debate one point, Deathstroke is basically a DC villain instead of one hero specifically, hell if he’s anyone’s specific villain, he’s a Titan’s villain
@@bruhmanofyear2647 Prometheus is one of the big Villains of Green Arrow in the comics. He also clashes with the League due to the Dark archer being a part of it & then Deadshot being a mercenary doesn't make him really anyone's villain he could be put up against most non-powered & lesser powered DC Heroes so he gets a pass. But Anarchy is defiantly not & I think 1 Firefly was originally a Green Arrow villain but I am not certain.
@@bruhmanofyear2647 I did say I wasn't certain on the Firefly one but I know the wiki claims the prometheus thing.
@@bruhmanofyear2647it cites it sources on the whole Prometheus thing. He is originally a Batman villain but something about the Justice league leads him to becoming an Arrow Villain due to some revenge thing which leads to his death.
There is a reason for it. The CW actually wanted to makes Batman show. But Warner brothers didn't want to give them the IP needed. So instead CW was like hmmm what's a character similar to Batman. The answer? Green arrow. To which Warner brothers agreed to let them make an arrow show. So there's the IRL reason for it. Basically arrow is a green arrow show that wishes it was a Batman show.
What.....are you talking about.
@@gilgamos_5658 CW wanted to make a Batman show. Couldn't so made a green arrow show that wishes it was a Batman show... It's not that hard to understand
@@the_grim_gamer3039 all you stated is blatant bs assumptions. First of all, like this guy said, the two characters r much more different than they are alike. So if someone were to think about "oh whos most similar to batman that I can make a show on" no one thinks of oli. Theres rest of the bat family and many more darker characters that couldbmve been explored... This show was just a complete plagiarism simply because of the lack of originality. The writers are just simply incapable of taking a new route that stays true to the character so they rinse and repeat the plot of the biggest comic hero in history.
@@gilgamos_5658 it was confirmed they wanted a Batman show though look it up.
@@gilgamos_5658 it's true originally arrow was intended to be a batman show but warner bros said no so they went with the next best thing green arrow who is similar to batman and that's how arrow was made
Actually Clock King was a Green Arrow first way before he was a Batman villain, but I get what you mean with the show using way too many Batman villains.
Although I never understood DC's recent obsession with recontexulising Deathstroke as a Batman villain like it was always a thing, it comes off as rather forced and superficial to me.
Exactly. Deathstroke has fought Green Arrow & Nightwing more than he ever has Batman. People keep forgetting Clock King was Green Arrow’s original main villain way before Count Vertigo.
Linklex7 clock king was arrows main villain lol. No wonder he had to take Batman villains.
Technically the show only used one in the form of Ra’s al Ghul. Two if you count Deadshot.
Solomon Grundy, howevere, was never a Batman villain. He’s Green Lantern’s. Batman borrowed his villain.
Though, if we are honest, this show used Titan villains more often for antagonist considering Deathstroke, Brother Blood and Damien Darhk all antagonize the guy.
BigK13372 Solomon has not been a gl villain For years lol. Solomon has appeared in plenty of Batman media lol games, animated stuff and plenty of comics. It’s hard to suggest that Grundy at this point is a gl villain . He is a Batman villain even if he started out as a gl villain.
Well Batman tas made a new clock king which in turn made clock king popular and a Batman villain
CW YOU HAVE FAILED THIS SHOW!
Lmao 💀
No it didn't it's was the best of the dc CW shows
Tre' Weis cause it was Batman
@@joeker5208 what are you talking about
Tre' Weis the characters are nothing like any of comics book variations, they feel like there trying to copy the Dark Knight, hell the even use Batman characters and tropes. Detective Lance (Jim Gordon), Felicity (Barbara Gordon), Deathstroke, Huntress, Firefly,
I feel like in a real life scenario if someone was stranded on an island and went through so many experiences after the island before coming back home, he wouldn't be as fun, and quippy as in the comics. Plus Arrow is centered right after he came back from the events of being away from his home so he has to get used to normality while controlling his darkness, thus Arrow season one was more dark. Yes I do agree that he should mellowed out much more as seasons went by like in the comics however its tough after seeing your mother die and fighting for your city and friends life day after day. I feel the quips and the sarcasm from him from time to time in the crossovers and few short moments show that side but maybe towards the last two seasons he could have mellowed out with the whole saving the multiverse.
Agreed, Green Arrow being the way he was on Arrow made since.
Agreed
Facts
my theory is that they had written a show about Batman and right before they were gonna cast it the execs told them they couldn't use the dark Knight so they were like what's the next best thing? and crossed out all the mentions of batman to Green arrow
Green arrow killed some in the first season..so that definitely isn’t the case.
@@GooglyMoogly68 man I can't believe batman has never killed anyone in any of his incarnations. Really sucks 😕
You literally are the first person I've ever seen that actually likes Supergirl
Season 1 was good
I love the whole arrowverse and batwoman idk why people hate them
@@paulchamoun1990 probably the writing and the politics.
It was good till they moved to the CW after the first season
@@paulchamoun1990 you got problems
Arrow season 2 & The Flash season 1 are the absolute best seasons of the Arrowverse.
I think Arrow season 5 is the best personally
@@arc4859 Prometheus was an absolute badass🔥💯🔥
agreed
@Arrow Edits agreed
6:25 I actually think that early SuperHero comics did dive deep into the characters, Batman’s first origin story was written in 1939 by Bill Finger. It showed his oath to his deceased parents that made him a superhero, and it showed his decision to use bats as a fear tactic. It was until comics started to be censored in the 50s and 60s that comic book characters started to become more paper thin and generic. The guns were also removed after a few issues, Bill Finger preferred Batman to not kill
I think they just wanted a Batman series and couldn't get the rights...
That's precisely it. Who knows, maybe now that CW Arrow is dead we can get a batman tv show. I don't think rights will be an issue this time around seeing as that's why they didn't use superman in the first place either but now we're getting a superman tv show.
This show was REALLY good for 3 seasons. And it provided a Batmanesque fix on television. Was it accurate to Oliver Queen of the comics? No. Did I enjoy ninja Green Arrow kicking ass? Yes.
Will DeMarco how was season 8 bad?
I always felt arrow was Batman lite. Even using the same villains reserved for Batman. Although I always thought they should have used the Riddler since he was a arch nemesis in green arrow as well
So is Clock King. He was Green Arrow’s main villain before Count Vertigo & The Dark Archer. If anything, Batman stoke Clock King
The Riddler isn’t Green Arrow’s arch nemesis, Darcy Archer is Green Arrow arch nemesis.
I agree, but we can also argue that this is the flash point’s version. The events with the reverse flash could have caused a chain reaction that caused the the arrows hardening including government interference and a missing batman causing raz to look at another successor.
That wud mean Barry did do the first Flashpoint n his mom is alive which I dont think is the case
In the comics there was another timeline before reverse flash travelled back and killed barry’s mom, probably several timelines where berry’s mom is alive before flashpoint. I think DC likes to use the flash to reset their universes.
Could makes sense with Sara being recast between s01 and 02
I just see it as a different interpretation of Green Arrow, that I actually do like. I understand why some people don't though.
Batman's first ever appearance showed him killing a man because he was too dangerous to keep alive, He said something along the lines of he doesn't want to kill and in fact hates it but when he's left with no other option he will do it. That has very clearly changed as they probably wanted his rogues gallery to stay around for longer than one series of comics before being killed off, without that change we wouldn't have the amazing rogues gallery Batman comes up against regularly that we do. I prefer my Batman non-lethal, also Batman didn't use any guns in his very first incarnation being that comic I'm mentioning now, it was about a murder and it concluded with 2 of three business partners having had the third killed and inevitably turned on one another when it came time to make some profit on the upcoming project that was the catalyst for the murder and betrayal.
Now I'm just imagining all these iconic villain stories ending with them just being gunned down by batman.
Like the f****** silver shroud
@@FrancisR420 I mean if you wanna see some costumed clowns gunned down then ya could turn to Punisher. I can only name a few Punisher Rogues cause he usually kills them.
@@FrancisR420 Cower in fear evildoer, for I am, THE SILVER SHROUD! *Tommy gun bangs*
Batman's a cold blooded killer he killed an owl as a child , killed alot of robots, killed Dracula
@@nekogamer2508 I mean, robots aren't alive, and technically neither is Dracula. I don't really have an answer for the owl, I don't really know what's up with that.
*reads tittle*
Me: “true...but, you can see they took heavy inspiration from him.”
i do love reading tittles
I remember hearing that the Arrow show was supposed to be a spinoff from Smallville with that version of GA, and the only reason they made GA so prominent in Smallville in the first place is because they couldn't use Batman. The CW has literally been using Ollie as a psuedo-Bruce since all the way back then.
(Also, Arrow kinda showed me that Oliver has way more of a right to this gig than Wayne ever did. It makes way more sense for an origin story for the billionaire playboy to lose a parent and get stranded on an island for five years).
batman is better the a guy who has arrows and cant for shit batman know 127 martial arts and batman is smarter and is more rich batman has 9.7 billion in his banck account and like 30 billion in his company
@@senshaw6640 still doesn't mean he has as much of a solid, logical claim to the gig.
@@senshaw6640 he doesn't own the thirty billions though
@@ericstorm6582 his networth is 80 billion arrow networth is about 9 billion dumbass
'get stranded on an island for five years' You haven't seen the show, have you...
Is CW's Green Arrow like Batman with arrows? Yes. But is this made show bad? No. This could be a problem if DC ever wonna to do Batman live action TV series but we know that's not the case. We could get Gotham or Pennyworth, but Batman? No.
Is TV show about more comicbook acurate Green Arrow could be better. Maybe, but as what Arrow is he did deasent job most of the time. I mean season 2, 5 and 8 are awansome. And the rest (except season 4) are also good or OK at worst.
This is why I like a show and this is only MY opinion.
PS. English is my second leangue so if I made any errors then let me know.
Wait you are from Poland?
Jeżeli tak to rozumiesz ten tekst który właśnie czytasz
I mean, we COULD get a Batman tv show in the future. Because the DC deal with CW was that they couldn't make a show with any of the characters they planned on using in their movies. But they gave up on that pretty quick seeing as we're getting a Superman TV show.
@@allykayalltheway6631 Yes, Superman tv show is... well super idea and I hope its gonna be great, but I think Batman is still to much. Also we gonna get Batinson releted tv show on HBO Max so...
@@Purrczak Yes, I'm from Poland
I ty teraz rozumiesz ten tekst.
@@jakubgodyn7413 czyli znalazłem Polaka innego niż ja
Thank you Vee for pointing this out! I've been thinking this for years! Because WB doesn't want Batman in a actual show they dance around and give us Batman-esqe types. With Arrow, Gotham with Gordon acting dark and brooding, Batwoman (smh) and Titans. They need to just do a Batman tv show and get it over with, I bet if done right and on the right channel (maybe HBO or something, but not CW) it could be great!.
Fuck Yeah, my man You are right
no not HBO fam have you seen the new watchman?
Probably would be better then the movies. An HBO Batman show with the budget of Game of Thrones would be *amazing*
@Black Ninja Nobody's too big or small for ANYTHING as far as I'm concerned. The WB needs to stop being petty; it's costing them money.
I wish they'd do that and let the other properties not be Batman knock-offs. Its really disapointing that Green Arrow and Titans were stuck pretending to be Batman when those properties had so much potential if they stuck to their source material. Like the season finale of Titans was literally about evil Batman vs Joker and none of the Titans showed up besides Robin. So annoying.
I’d argue that the reason they made Green Arrow more like Batman is because when the Arrowverse started it was very clear the CW couldn’t use Batman so they wanted Oliver to be a stand in for Bruce. As well as the first season taking place in 2012 where superhero’s being dark and realistic was very popular, like TDKR & TASM, it was probably a creative decision that was beast suited for the time, and after that they couldn’t just do a 180 on the characterization.
We gonna talk about how they turned Roy Harper into Jason Todd?
Crowbar
EXACTLY!!!
I’ve always considered the oliver queen in arrow (even when he goes by green arrow) as the arrow rather than the green arrow. It’s a completely different take than Green Arrow, so I separate them as characters. I still enjoy Arrow and think it is different enough from Batman for it to be unique to me, but I definitely think we deserve an accurate live action Green Arrow
Exactly. Him being different just makes him a different take on the character. It doesn't make him a bad character because it was done well. Maybe Batman using guns could have worked (doubt it) if someone else was making the movie and his arc. That could be an interesting thing to explore (and it has been with Thomas Wayne (Flashpoint)). Also Batman not using guns or killing are defining characteristics. Green Arrow can be dark and still work ad Arrow has proven. I don't think what Arrow did is as drastic and terrible as BvS having Batman be a crazy murderer who uses guns was.
I find it a little odd that in season 1, Malcolm Merlin suggests "Green Arrow" and Ollie says "that's lame".
Then later on, in season 4 (I think) that's exactly what he decides to call himself.
So maybe it's one of those cases where 'it's not a good idea unless I'm the one who thinks of it'.
@@tuffdude7795 i think you are right
A big difference between him and Batman on the show, at least at first, was that he killed people in season 1.
Also, I definitely think that Oliver Queen is a fully fleshed out, three dimensional character in the series, whose gotten a TON of character development over the years.
A Lot of it Negative though he went from being the Vigilante, to being a Hero who knew right from wrong, to being Felicity's sidekick, to being dissed by Felicity's rag-tag group of friends.
sreddi83 no he went from a bratty rich playboy, to a highly trained vigilante who killed people, to a vigilante who for the most part didn’t kill people, then a he started killing people again, until he realised that was wrong again, and then he grew even more and became a superhero a formidable opponent, and then he became the Specre and created a whole new multiverse when the old multiverse was destroyed by antimatter. His relationship with Felicity made him better in so many ways, Felicity was one of his motivators to be better.
Todss So season 4 Velicity sabotaging Oliver just never happened?🤨.....👀okay🙄
@@junit318 Was she sabotaging Oliver or was Oliver sabotaging himself?
Todss I hated felicity never saw her point on the show 😭
I feel like it could’ve worked if Arrow grew into his comic version. Like, they already tried to have him start dark and get lighter. Have him get closer and closer to the true GA with each season! It’s not that hard CW!!!
I know a bunch of people want a new Batman game or a Superman game or hell a whole Justice League game! But personally? A Green Arrow game sounds insanely fun. Using different types of arrows to quickly take out guards from a distance, the creativity that could be pulled off from using those arrows mid combat like the boxing glove arrow or the shock arrow. It would be like the Arkham games but ya know, you can actually see the sun once and awhile
Problem is, Green Arrow only really has one reoccurring villain, Count Vertigo, and he killed him off halfway through the first season
@bruhmanofyear2 Death Stroke is a Batman/Teen Titans villain. Clock King at best splits time between Green Arrow and Batman.
*11:59** THE PROBLEM IS*
*GREEN ARROW & BLACK CANARY: WE HAVE A LOT OF COMMON, & WE DO AM EXCELENT FIGHT COUPLE, & BOTH WANT THE SAME*
*_OLICITY:_** WE GOT SEX, & WE LIKED, SO THEN WE WILL MARRIA... OH, WAIT, NO, WE NEED RETAIN THE RATING, WE WILL PROLONGE THAT FOR 3 MORE SEASONS*
Arc Trooper Rod 269 Green Arrow and Black Canary doesn’t really have much in common as well in comics... except they are both cry a lot about every tiny little shit they dislike.
Spoilers inbound...
AND THEN, WE DIE!
THE END.
It’s actually too bad, because as shown in things like Elseworlds, Stephen Amell is quite capable of humor
*Elseworlds* was a great crossover, I wish Vee would cover it like if it was a movie or something... it's only 3 episodes long, so it could be movie-length if watched back-to-back-to-back...
Plus Doctor Destiny gained some popularity recently thanks to *the Sandman* , and it was pretty damn cool to see A.M.A.Z.O in live action.
Stuff like *Elseworlds* is why I'm glad I, as a massive DC fanboy, got into the Arrowverse (Arrow, the Flash & Legends at least) despite the critics... because even if it's super cheesy as time, there's also some awesome moments in it that make it worth it.
Also... Clock King IS A GREEN ARROW villain in the comics. They have actually returned several rogues gallery members usurped by Batman media and then used some of the Batman ones. I think it's fair.
When talking about the Batman villains Arrow lifted, you forgot to mention how Arrow's first and second versions of Count Vertigo were blatant knockoffs of the Joker and Scarecrow, respectively. Hell, the actor for the first one admitted he was copying Heath Ledger's Joker.
Love the justice league animated series, especially green arrow and j'onn jonz
wt about batman and wonderwoman relatship in that seris
same
Love to hear your thoughts on the Smallville (Justin Hartley) version of Green Arrow compared to the Arrowverse version.
A few of the enemies were GA enemies in the comics too… I like what they did with their creative rights. I think this made more sense then making him completely witty like in the comics. Even Flash is not as witty and confident as he is in the comics. They just made it realistic since it’s live action. I give Arrowverse 10/10
In young justice super boy kisses black caneray but it was ms Martian and when Oliver finds out he laughs, that is green arrow, not this serious type.
I remember an interview where someone said the Cw wanted to make a batman show but couldn't get the rights so thats why arrow came about
Ive never been able to make it past season 1. So many people have told me "oh, Arrow gets better after a few episodes" but i just cant get invested in it. That being said, Ill keep up with the Flash and even watch clips of the other arrowverse shows. But the one that started it all, lost me at its begining.
eh season 4 is the last season that’s good i would say you’re missing out by avoiding them completely especially when you’d rather watch flash which isn’t much better
@@elanadeshina7521 Nah Season 4 is terrible. The fridging of Laurel, the overdose of Ollicity. First three seasons good to great. Season 5 better. Six dragged. Seven and 8 were decent But god I hated that fourth season
Just watch the first two seasons. Season 3 is meh, 4 is garbage, 5 is meh, everything else is between meh and ok.
But season 2 is fucking incredible. Also Diggle finds a Green Lantern Ring at the series finale. Oops spoilers🙊
Flash is just as bad. Every season is exactly the same with the same plot twist. None of the Arrowverse shows are good, except for Black Lightning
Ehhh I thought season 2 was the best one, everything after that is bad I think
Even though it takes stuff from Batman's lore, I still love Arrow. Granted I haven't really seen any other interpretation of him, but the show has done amazing things with him. If you just disregard Batman and look at this show on its own terms, it is great. Yes they did butcher his romance life, but that's made up for by the action and storylines. Though i still wonder what a quippy and quirky live action Green Arrow would look like.
Right? Different doesn't equal bad. What they did was different, but it was good and done well.
Finally someone talked about this and cw didn't just take the batman persona and gave it to arrow but they also took superman's and gave it to supergirl including all of his villains and on top of that they made him a jobber.
U should really talk about this one too in the near future.
Mark Guggenheim once said in an interview, that when he started Arrow, he was looking to make a show that was less Campy than what a lot of superhero shows and so he strove to make the show darker. I think this especially worked, given the nature of Green Arrow's origin. That said, they did use a lot of Batman villains.
Dark Night Rises was about to and just came out at the time so boom, dark and gritty Green Arrow show basically based off Nolan’s batman flicks because of how well they were received. Plus since smallville green arrow has always been a tv stand in because they couldn’t get the rights to batman and G.A was similar enough
Basically all the batman stuff they wanted to do, they couldn’t. so they did the next best thing with using green arrow, again because of how similar enough he is to batman. plus they’ve already fought some of the same villains before like deathstroke, so "why not" is basically what the producers said
Whats hilarious is arrow season 1 clearly took lots of inspiration from batman begins but also did batman better than the batman films with the fight scenes and gritty
The thing is that Oliver Queen in Arrow was a very easy character to grow into a more comic version. When he's interacting with Thea or Tommy, there's this relaxed charisma and joking attitude that shines through from his days before the island, and it wouldn't have been hard to take that and have Oliver embrace is more over time.
I like the video and ya make some good points. But I gotta say that something about whenever it's said that "Arrow turned Green Arrow into Batman" is I wonder "did anyone ever read Mike Grell's Green Arrow run?" I'm kinda surprised you didn't share any images from that.
But yeah, the Mike Grell run was definitely a big influence on Arrow. It turned GA into more of a hard-hitting vigilante, who does still have a sense of humor at times, albeit more sardonic and cynical than before, who uses regular arrows instead of trick arrows to maim and even kill at one point or another, and faces off against street thugs, drug pushers, rapists, serial killers, terrorists, corrupt government agents, assassins, you name it. And it was set in Seattle and the series made a conscious effort to include as little fantastical superhero elements as possible in order to focus on the character work, although Black Canary is a supporting character, albeit without her Canary Cry due to an undercover operation gone wrong, and Hal Jordan shows up at one point as himself and not Green Lantern. Also John Constantine has a cameo too, because it was the 80s, Hellblazer just started and John Constantine was brand new and appeared in a lot of DC stuff early on, and DC's Vertigo imprint had yet to start formation. It also kicked off Green Arrow's hooded look and forgo the hat he'd wear.
Arrow is definitely an amalgamation of as much of the GA comics as possible. Granted, it did lean into the Grell influence a bit too much for my taste, especially at times where it wasn't warranted. And sometimes the attempts at levity were jarring. But it's a damn good show where it counts. I'll admit the more overt Batman elements were on the nose, especially with Ra's al Ghul (although they coulda easily turned him into an overseer instead of the main antagonist in season 3) and other stuff.
The other thing about the "Green Arrow is Batman" argument is that while Arrow does masquerade as Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy but in TV form, it does somewhat stay true to the character. Batman, for all his sternness, no-nonsense attitude, and being called "The Dark Knight", is not a loner. Sure, he started out that way (and was kind of a knockoff of The Shadow), but he's more of a team player, with Alfred, multiple Robins, Batgirls, and other partners, not to mention the GCPD, Wayne Industries, and various connections to the wider DC Universe through either teams like the Justice League or the Outsiders, or individuals like Superman, Wonder Woman, and others. Green Arrow is more of a loner than Batman is, despite his demeanor at times. Sure, he works with the Justice League and various other heroes, but when it comes to his own stories, he's often on his own, doesn't exactly have as expansive of a support system like Batman does, and he lost his fortune at some point, adding more to that Robin Hood aesthetic. And he's had various partners like Roy Harper and Mia Dearden, but at some point they eventually just go off on their own, either because of a falling out or something else. His relationship with Black Canary is more of a "will they/won't they" than a stable romance and that can get annoying. He also isn't exactly known for his Rogues gallery like other heroes, which is why in later comics they developed that more with Count Vertigo, Merlyn, Deathstroke, Constantine Drakon, Brick, Komodo, Shado, and others.
To me, Arrow is more about Oliver Queen becoming less of a loner and more of a team player as both the show, and the Arrowverse as a whole, progresses. He went from smug playboy rich jerk to a survivor to hardened vigilante to a hero with a huge support system like Roy, Felicity, Diggle, the Canaries, the Star City police (at least when it's not contrively written that they're against him), his own extended family, and other heroes like Flash and Supergirl. It's not so much that he's like Batman or has become like Batman, but more like someone who gets the ball rolling.
@bruhmanofyear2 It's not like it's a big universe and GA can't faceoff against all the villains in it.
I agree 100% and that is why at its core (even with everything they have done well) this universe will never fully satisfy true Batman fans...
I totally agree with this perspective but also, as a person who was upset CW wasn’t given Batman, early Green Arrow being like Batman scratched an itch for.
That said, I always expected him to grown into a more lighthearted version as the show went on. It looked like it was going that way to me for a little while with him changing his ways.
Bro, you're comparing apples to oranges, there are different interpretations of characters in all media.
Savage Skid thank you bro! There’s several interpretations of characters in comics that it’s crazy. Hell, Tony Stark for the most part is an ass in the comics, but the MCU did a completely different portrayal of that character...
Snyder wasn't justifying Batman's actions. For the love of God, that was the whole point of the movie.
Before I started watching the CW's Arrow, I used to like to compare Oliver Queen and Tony Stark. But now he's just a Batman wannabe.
I remember trying to explain this to a coworker and he didn't believe me. I told him that GA isn't such a fighter. We weren't talking about Oliver and Bruce
It really did just turn into Batman with a green hood at a certain point. Even had a girl in a wheelchair who was really great with tech (Barbara Gordon), a strange relationship with Ra’s’ daughter Nysa because Ra’s needed an heir(Literally just Talia with a dif name at that point) grooming and training by LoA to takeover origin, and tragically dead parents. Eventually assembled a small team of sidekicks and vigilantes along with a badass “bodyguard” (I felt like Diggle turned into what young Alfred was supposedly like as a secret agent and w/e, but he was still serving Olly.) feel like the same thing happened in the flash cause they just kept adding sidekicks and then booting the sidekicks.
Green Arrow in Justice League Unlimited is best imo
FACT
Arrow is my favorite character in the arrowverse, but I felt the same way you did when they portrayed Batman poorly in batwoman. So, I understand why this character would bother you.
Arrow was dark and gritty the first season, and then Daredevil came around, destroyed how people thought of Arrow and superhero shows in general.
Idk about the rest, but the first 3 seasons of Arrow are basically the Dark Knight Trilogy.
1st season/Batman Begins: Hero comes back to town after being gone for a long time and takes up their superhero alter egos while re-establishing their place in town. The main villain is someone related to their past in some way and uses a similar moveset. This villain also uses a machine made by their tech company to try and destroy the city through major environmental damage.
2nd season/The Dark Knight: New villain arises and challenges the hero in a way that he never has been before while also dealing a huge blow to the hero in the form of taking someone they love away from them.
3rd season/The Dark Knight Returns: Another new villain arises, but is different from the last one. They fight the hero and deal a severe blow to them in their first fight leading to the hero to have to recoup and rise up to defeat him in the end.
I know these don’t cover all the details in either situation, but you can’t tell me that this show didn’t rip-off Batman.
I love Green Arrow watched a lot of the Animated stuff, read a few of his comics, he's awesome, but the reason I'm fine with them making him Batman in the show, because to me it makes sense to me that after being stranded on an island for years alone (well guess they changed that in the show he even left the island for a long time), watching his Dad kill himself in front of him, just everything in those 5 years might've left him a bit unhinged and broken. Obviously in the comics he remained his same self after all that, but in my opinion that sounds like a really tough thing to do. They also at the time couldn't use Batman and so they used the next closest thing. I personally like most the show S4 was extremely boring and awful, but most of it is good, but yeah it's far from perfect.
"Mom, can we get Batman?"
"We have Batman at home!"
*Batman at home:*
I was thought about this too! This version of Oliver Quinn felt like Bruce Wayne. The show was like Batman show than an Green Arrow show.
It hurts to hear Clock King casually namedropped in a list of villians Arrow supposedly stole from Batman considering it was the other way around even though Arrow needs more villians and Batman needs less. I still agree with the main point though.
Oliver in the comics is a really entertaining and likable character. His personal charm is one of the most appealing parts of the character. Making him a brooding, ultra edgy Batman rip off is such a disservice to the character.
Arrow's Green Arrow is just really boring.
He wasn’t even that edgy m. He killed the most in the beginning but then it was shit later on when he started sparing people and became more serious
what did u expect from someone who spent literally 5 years of his life in torture and in hell and had to kill many of his own friends to survive and save others. You think he would come back all happy and go lucky?
@@thomaspanditfan2435 That was their choice to make his backstory more edgy. They didn't have to do that.
@@SefniAsheforr it was much better than the original comics from what I have heard. From what I know, he just went there, and learnt it himself, and basically doing what he does for the sake of it not because of what happened to him.
🤔 I don’t know if this whole “Arrow is like Batman ” thing Still holds up because if I’m being honest saying that just ignores the very fleshed out journey of this version of Oliver Queen that we got to see as the series progressed, I mean don’t get me wrong a lot of it is copy pasted Batman stuff from the start with bits and pieces sprinkled in throughout the series (I mean hey does anyone remember when Harley Quinn showed up as a cameo? *Good times*) but Stephen Amell‘s interpretation of the character as time progressed has long since differentiated itself from your typical Batman clone; like:
1.) With the different bonds he makes with other characters/heroes, like Barry, Roy or Diggle for example.
2.)The different choices he makes that Bruce wouldn’t have thought twice about (because if you know batman then you KNOW how he stubbornly thinks he’s always right, granted his is most of the time but... ya know how this alienate him from many of his friends or family).
3.) How he grows/matures from a man who “ uses his personal tragedies as an excuse to torture whoever he wants” to the actual hero we see today.
And to conclude this I understand that the original Green Arrow was a cool character (Me personally; I don’t care for quipping heroes since Spiderman did that first and does it better than everyone in my opinion) I just wanna State my case since I fell in love with the character of Green Arrow because of the metamorphosis of this version of Oliver queen and that’s honestly why I like him better than Batman. With Bruce’s story: it’s the tale of a man consumed by one word “Vengeance” but with Oliver: it’s one of character growth, Time and time again throughout the series he isn’t given a pass to be that vengeful guy because his life was hard or because his father told him to “ Right his wrongs “ ; in order for him to win he must grow as a person doing what’s right and not what feels good or he will ultimately lose a piece of himself and pay the price for his decision. Idk I found myself Learning a lot of things from Stephen Amell‘s version of Oliver queen while watching the show throughout the years that I just never got from everyone’s favorite “ can be anyone with enough prep time” Caped Crusader
Green Arrow predates Spider-Man I think
Clock king is actually a Green Arrow villian
In their defense, they did start trying to add a lighter tone to him towards the later seasons. Sadly, the show was already on its decline by then, but they at least tried.
Arrow has probably been the most consistent show. Arrow season 1, 2, 5, and 8 are up there with the best of the Arrowverse.
Maybe they can finally make Green Arrow accurate in the DCEU
If there IS a DCEU
The dceu is alive, somewhat.
The DCEU is being replaced with the DC multiverse. The Flash movie is meant to be a soft reboot and will allow it to continue and other stand alone movies that are set outside of it on a different Earth. They are finally embracing the multiverse and I am excited for it.
The creators originally wanted to do a Batman TV series, but DC gave them Ollie instead.
I really enjoyed this version of Green Arrow & still enjoy the comic book version as well.
He started off as a dead man with a chip on his shoulder and went from being q murderer to a good man that became the morale compass and foundation for a group of younger heroes that had powers and was able to make them better. I do wish he was a bit more quippy & sarcastic, but Oliver Queen became the all encompassing beacon of hope and I am totally fine with that character arc.
But I did hate Felicity and really wish they had just gone with Black Canary...but the Sarah Lance version. Laurel was unbearable.
This is a ok video, but I dont agree with it. It's ok to have Batman's villains as arrow villains, and I think the show has very good seasons that should represent the show. How ever the inclusion of batman and batwoman in this universe bring down a bit of the elements
The only good batman series was the cartoons.
Gotham is amazing but it's not really a "batman" show I know it's the origin of Bruce and Gordon but it tells a wonderful story with great characters
batman is the best he has the most anmation movies in dc most poplure in dc
This is what i was looking for. As a lay person who never read comics, i loved the arrowverse but now i see why its so frustrating for comics fans.
As a former batman fan he acted exactly like batman. It's depressing
I love the arrowverse. But I get where you’re coming from.
Deathstroke batman villain? You play too much Arkham. Deathstroke is a Titans Villain and later his 1st appearance on a solo hero comic book was on a Green Arrow comic
I can watch a bunch of UA-cam videos and opinions that people have that just kinda piss me off, some of them I like, some of them I don't like.... but I always just feel great again when I come back to a Vee Infuso video! :)
5 Things you need to make a Great Green Arrow Show
1: A Funny Comedic Action Actor (Like Charlie Human or Ewan McGregor)
2: Don't Mess up Oliver's relationship with Dinah Lance
3: The Actors Should read the comics To understand the portrayals of who they are acting as(Like Margot Robbie who did a wonderful job as Harley Quin)
4: Make the Stories BASED on the Comic
5:(More of an Opinion) Can we get the robin hood Green arrow as a Season 1 suit
A robin hood Arrow suit like the one from the GA seen (albeit in a photo) on Stargirl?
exactly
Aye man the CW is G A R B A G E. They made Arrow into Batman, and instead of giving us a Batman show, they gave us BATWOMAN 😑
We have a lot of Batman media already. Let other characters get some spotlight. The Arrowverse shows are actually pretty good. They have their issues, but overall they are pretty good. The shows people call garbage are just average. Superman and Lois turned out to be excellent.
I can get behind Batman using guns in Snyder’s movie since it’s backed up by his mind slowly breaking (hinted at due to Jason’s suit in BvS) However, Batman still has his main personality trait, vengeance. The new Ollie lost his main personality trait, his sarcastic humor. (Yes, it’s backed up by him going through a 5 year hell, but in the comics he’s been through worse and his personality stayed in tact.) I hope this comment made some sense
I knew from the beginning of that show that they were just making a Batman show but they weren't allowed to use Batman so they subbed in Ollie instead. They use enemies from Batman, storylines from Batman, etc. I get why they wanted to do that because a Batman live action show is long overdue, but they shouldn't have undermined GA in order to make that Batman show.
By the way, KGBeast who is a Batman villain from the comics, was repositioned as an Arrow villain in the show.