Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson are the tip of the Incel iceberg
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2024
- Sunday Times bestseller Laura Bates, author of Fix the System, Not the Women, sits down with JOE to talk about some of the most dangerous enclaves on the internet.
The two discuss why forums create dangerous expectations for young men, and how the media and Parliamentary bodies are taking the wrong approach to tackle the harms.
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These two women should discuss the part women have played in the rise of the incel movement.
And what part would that be?
@@theLowestPointInMyLife what main part?
While i might not agree with everything Jordan Peterson says, especially lately, I feel placing him alongside Andrew Tate is a big unhelpful leap.
Why?
@@django3422 Does it really need explaining to you? Both are arseholes, but Peterson isn't facing charges for rape and trafficking, nor does he 'flex' the sort of grotesquely opulent fantasy lifestyle that Tate has been pushing on the smooth brains for the last couple of years.
PoliticsJoe needs to stick to UK politics, it's pretty straight forward and doesn't take much intelligence. Trying to pick a fight with Jordan Peterson is pointless because they will never be brave enough to deabte with him.
@@django3422are you asking this stupid question on every comment? If you need to ask then it shows you have not read or listened to a single thing either have said and have only read what outlets like the guardian say about them. They are not comparable
@@gm9460 It's a simple question that's yet to be answered.
Says a lot about those defending him.
Jordan Peterson's message is the exact opposite of the incel Ideology.
He literally said: " if all the women are rejecting you whos's got the problem? It is NOT all the women that is a bad road to go down. If all the Women are rejecting you there is something wrong with YOU."
Jordan Peterson keeps men from becoming incels.
I've no idea why Jordan Peterson's name is in the title of this video and even less of an idea why he would be associated with Andrew Tate.
I think it's provocative , to garner views that's all , like so much online is .
Clickbait. PoliticsJoe, a new low......................................
@@doghouseriley4732 Seriously, get your keyboard fixed.
Because Peterson is an online mysoginist, maybe not quite as obvious as Tate but is definitely still a part of the same pipeline that is the topic of this video
Wasn't Tate banging Peterson's daughter at one point?
@@BardianAngel Grifting a book and clickbait. The only reason JPs name is there. Chalk and cheese
The root of the problem is that radicalising people has become profitable. The technology companies need to be reigned in, otherwise we're just gonna keep getting a new Andrew Tate every few years.
Reigned in how?
@@darrelljohnston562 They profit from engagement, so their algorithms push controversial content known to drive wedges and push engagement.
It's why UA-cam, for years, had a very real issue with pushing Nazi propaganda.
Who decides what is radical and what isn't? There are things you find completely abhorrent and damaging that others would find completely normal and vice versa. Be VERY careful of the monster you want to create here Vanguard, it will one day come back to bite...
@@darrelljohnston562 I don't have the solution, but I'd wager it involves regulating their business practices - particularly with regards to use of habit forming and addictive design, and giving people more control over the algorithms that curate content for us.
@@PeaceDweller The individual user should decide, I don't think censorship is the answer - as we should have learned by now, it just drives people into darker corners of the internet. The problem right now is that media is pushed on us by content curation algorithms that we have almost no control over, and addiction is the mechanism being used to keep people on these platforms. We should have some degree of control over our personalised algorithms - the reason we don't is probably because it would make us less predictible and thus harder to serve ads to, possibly breaking the business model. Honestly I think social media in its current form needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history... but I'm aware that is wishful thinking.
I'm not a fan either way of Jordan Peterson but he's never advocated violence in the way Andrew Tate has. It's over simplistic and unfair to equate them together. A lot of it from what I've seen of online mysogyny starts off with dating gurus who exploit boys and men who are frustrated with rejection from girls and women. So then they get told to be alpha and dominate women. If men or boys feel misunderstood and don't know how to engage with girls and women then they become vulnerable to exploitation. It's kind of sad really because it stems from feeling insecure and unloved. But when it comes to any form of extremism they always start off with a point that seems reasonable about some kind of unfairness which gets ignored then you get moved up the crazy pyramid
Jordan Peterson has notoriously sympathised and credited hitler, they’re both terrible people who appeal to the far right misogynistic, incel community. It is entirely fair to push them together, as they advocate for the same results just in different mannerisms
You are right, Peterson is not a thug like Tate but he still spits venom disguised by an intellectual varnish that convinces some that he is intelligent but I have never heard him say anything intelligent. Perhaps you know of something he said that made any sense.
@@willbrunton5333are you insane
@@willbrunton5333hat's bull crap. He hasn't sympathised he has critiqued him. Which is acceptable everyone should be critiqued. Peterson was actually middle of ground politically until people like you started to libel him and label him a bigot. His opinions are conservative but not remotely offensive, slight misogynistic sure but that's ok. It's OK for him, as a man to be slightly misogynist. That does not make him a bad person. Peterson has been pushed further and further right by silly little fascist kids on the internet thinking he isn't permitted to have an opinion different to theirs. Tate on the other hand is an abuser /grifter and should not be on any playform.
Personally I would say Peterson is more dangerous because he *was* educated ( it got revoked). He denies basic psychological studies and even denies studies he's not qualified in like the existence of climate change.
His worst takes are saying women at uni get sexually assaulted because they were drunk and that make up is sexually provocative and inviting harassment.
Hope this helps. Any questions?
Society is so utterly broken.
Capitalism is the sale of everything and is supported by both sides we're allowed to vote for. But everything about a caring community has to be defunded in favour of some sickening smorgasbord of consumerism rather than anything emotionally healthy.
Hear hear. We privatize water lmao
I seriously believe making the conversation about these fundamental (in reality moral) issues will stop these other issues in their infancy.
Capitalism serves money not people.
Simple reality. Society is irrelevant. People dont matter.
This was always gonna happen. Society is built on hierarchy where the people with the most are at the top. But they are becoming few and the bottom is becoming larger. Eventually they will be swallowed
I think it's a good thing personally. Fuck this society
We don't have capitalism in the West. The left has ushered in fascism decades ago. It was a slow boil.
Jordan Peterson is not an incel. Comparing Jordan Peterson to Andrew Tate just shows how delusional Laura Bates is.
No one is incel. It's those who ever question their ideology. They will try to cancel that person with any allegation.
Not even that Andrew Tate seems to be a very reasonable guy.
She's extremist
Complete toxic feminist
She infected all of society worldwide with this radical garbage. Right down to the made up terms and speech control.
@@narendrasomawat5978 Tate is an incel
I was taking to guy this weekend who loved tate.
He said he talked a lot of sense but could elaborate on a signle idea that held water .
The issue is on a the surface they seem logical but the minute you scrach at it the idea breaks apart.
Ask the dude if he is fine with another dude speaking to his sister or daughter that way, while knowing he is talking to other women the same way and nudging them to do sex work to pay off his gambling firm debts.
The other question that I can't seem to get past, is even if you give him the benefit of the doubt on all matters of his current charges, mysogny, controversy etc. (Which I certainly wouldn't be inclined to do)
Is his core achievement of building a wealth empire based off profiting from cam girls and a bizarre self-help MLM / cult really something that many young men actually aspire towards, or see as laudable?
@@raquetdude Wow, found something I could agree with you about. Weird
Tates views line up with my own and I can tell you one that holds water but would u be willing to listen though?
I can't stand Tate, but I can definitely see why (in this era at least) he connects with certain young men. It's a sad truth that needs to be counted, in positive, thoughtful ways & not just ignored. Peterson however, seriously speaks a great deal of sense on many topics, even though I disagree on some subjects. I feel that anyone who says otherwise hasn't taken enough time to really listen to him.
I have listened to Peterson and I have heard what so many seem to miss. Everyone focuses on the content rather than the container. He has the whiniest, whingiest voice I have ever heard. Many years ago, while in a country for four months where I could not understand the language I learned to listen to the tone of voice before I focus on what is being said. People can lie with words but hardly anyone can master their tone with their will. The truth often lies in the way we speak rather than in what we say.
Andy mastertate is a grifter . Jordan isn't wrong 90% of the time.
My problem with him is his religious beliefs.
Yes. The headline is misleading here, Peterson dosnt encourage rape and encourages men to be good fathers. Its intresting how she talks like this type of male behaviour is somthing new that hasnt been with us through out history.
YES! Jordan is a very misunderstood man. i couldn't have worded it better myself
@@ForrixTV These days Peterson spends most of his time spouting angry right wing rants on Twitter or The Daily Wire when he's not attacking the trans actor Elliot Page.
"Encouraging men to commit suicide"
Tell that to Peterson who dragged out thousands of people from deep depression.
And threw them right into being misogynists that now hurt others...
most incels dont watch peterstein
hes just a grifter pandering to the left and israel
he literally thinks cleaning your room will change ur life or something lol
@@LegaciesOfMen How did he do that? How are they hurting others?
@@nestor916 alpha and beta. Betas wanna be alphas, and alphas are cruel. Alpha is masculine toxicity. Nothing good comes from it. It's not a real thing but yet he teaches it. It's how he keeps you coming back for more. His special sauce is that he'll never tell you where to find a submissive woman as an alpha. That's the flaw in his logic. He has you chasing your tails.
@@nestor916 *You won't get an answer. Laura Bates's analysis consists of claiming statistics are fake (with no further analysis) and calling people misogynistic (with no definition or evidence). Her fans / burner accounts such as @LegaciesOfMen seem to follow a similar pattern.*
For me the explosion in access to hardcore on line porn, that was always hidden and had to be sought out, has normalised violent sex and has had a huge social impact.
You sound like Ted bundy my guy. You can watch porn and not be a twat
And combine that (as they say) with the complete lack of 'alternative narratives', and such few resources put into them. This is what you get.
Corn should be banned because it makes men docile.
The small minority of men that are into violent sex probably never watch corn because those kind of guys get sex easily IRL.
In the last 10-20 years it's become so much more violent, and weird.
@@TheDavveponken you know in the victorian times they made snuff films right?
As a lefty voter and subscriber to Joe, the only reason I can see to use Jordan Peterson's name in the title is to get clicks. You just cannot compare Tate to Peterson, and you cannot draw a line of intent from Peterson to the horrific groups you talked of. It's just nonsense!
One day you will go, "oh yeah, everyone was correct about these two" and be embarrassed
I agree. Peterson makes sense, Tate makes hate.
Some on the left love to vilify him because of his objection to identity politics and compelled speech, and support of freedom of speech (especially in Canada).
Jordan Petersons view on 'modern women' and feminism is not so different to Andrew Tates. He just phrases his words in a more intellectual way and all his fans think "wow he's so smart and right!"
They are also very similar in the way they have formed a cult-like following where their fans take everything they say as fact and never critically engage with the ideas that they spout
@@JaffaBeats_producer One is due to stand trial for rape and trafficking women. JP is an world reknown author and university lecturer. Please.........................................
Was a step ahead of her about youth clubs and funding being cut.
I despair about how success for these people comes from such obviously hostile divide and rule grifts. It just keeps happening.
Identity politics - you are either with us or against us................................................. cheap grifters.
@@doghouseriley4732 I never realised manosphere grift was just identity politics but now you mention it... lol
@@segue2ant395 Always good to learn
@@doghouseriley4732 Kinda weird that you're here saying it's bs but elsewhere in these comments defending The Normal Rat. Kinda feel like you didn't mean your initial comment ironically.
It's due to a complete failure of the education system. They don't teach these kids critical thinking. That it reserved for the children of the elites. In a society as complicated as our modern one, common sense just isn't enough anymore, critical thinking is vital in being able to navigate the modern world.
Educated people are allowed to, without any restraint, prey on uneducated people. That is the crux of it. And it needs to stop and it starts with valuing high quality education for every single child. Whether they go on to do professional jobs or not.
Wow two women who have no understanding of men are telling what kind of role models we should have and giving advice to men, that’s like me saying ladies these are the things you should do in your 3rd trimester.
If I told these two what role models they should be more like I'd get called a misogynist
🚨 you’ve proved all their points though. Well done
This author is an example of a person living in their own algorithmic echo chamber.
Someone's been triggered.
@@garyboyle695Well, there is no one on the panel to counter the message. And they are both feeding one another supportive questioning and commentary. If one thing they said was in error, then you wouldn't know about it. That is an echochamber. Participating in a discussion with Peterson about their issues would be more comprehensive, genuine and honest.
@@inquisitor4635 Your comment is silly, this is a left-leaning media outlet, lord forbid they don't add to the oversaturated right-wing commentary. Get a grip.
*If you read her book, she complains about being made to debate any of these issues. This means she is limited to writing books and friendly interviews like this one.*
@@inquisitor4635 You mean the same echo chamber that Tate etc use to push their poison out to the gullible.
There's a lot of places where you can fall down the rabbit hole thanks to UA-cam's algorithm.
For example. I remember a few years ago I was playing videos on building PCs and components while I was busy, and just left autoplay on.
Eventually I wound up with videos playing by a guy called Dave Cullen. Who originally did computing videos. His channel was actually called Computing Forever.
After a few innocuous videos on computing, UA-cam then played me one of his videos where he was talking about how The Great Replacement is real, and being assisted by allowing abortion.
He took that video down shortly after the Christchurch shooting, as it was in the murderer's manifesto.
Meanwhile play any video on politics and leave autoplay on, and eventually UA-cam will start recommending things like The Daily Wire, Steven Crowder, or Lauren Southern.
Or movie and TV reviews, and eventually you'll get to the really vile people like Geeks & Gamers, Nerdrotic, or TheQuartering who complain if there's women, LGBTQ+, or ethnic minorities in anything.
So again it's easy to understand how people get driven down these rabbit holes to where they start listening to and embracing really messed up views. Especially if it's happening to impressionable minds like teenagers.
Real or not the underlying demographic reality that the Great Replacement theory purports is undeniable
@chickengeorge6817 get therapy bro you are lost
Jordan Peterson is mentioned once in 30 minutes and Andrew Tate is mentioned 9 times. Not sure the title reflects this but hey not hard to just copy the transcript into text edit and search which names pop up more.
Woman empowerment:
They are so strong and powerful and should be appreciated 🥰
Men empowerment: Toxic and a danger to society 🤬
Female empowerment is great. Extreme distortion of femininity has always led to the fall of civilisations, alas where we are now
Male empowerment to me is being a gentleman. To all sexes, races and religions. As well as your fellow man.
Male empowerment to tate and peterson is being a hypocrite and attacking women for wearing makeup saying its inviting harrassment or being sexually assaulted. Both these guys gel their hair or groom their beards btw
WTF kind of BS comment is this?
It isn't complicated. If your idea of "empowerment" involves hurting others then you are a cretin. Men are empowered in tons of ways that don't involve being a c*nt.
Thats a very narrow and misleading equivalence you're projecting there. No one argues against empowering males to be better men. But these better men are not the likes of Tate or Peterson, who hides their fragility behind bravado or academic jibberish.
@@Solsbeary It is not misleading at all. If you do anything to upset a woman, they have the power to falsely accuse you of grape. For example, if you break up with a woman, you can go to prison for sexual assault. If your girl cheats on you, she is applauded for it. Tell me how this is fair.
What jordan peterson's done for young mens mental health should be praised quite frankly
Clean your room, get a job? Like his messages are not that profound
As a mental health professional I worry about his stability
He’s often emotionally unstable and suffers with a seesaw of superiority and darker inferiority
I would suggest he take a bit longer to recover from his benzo issues first and then offer “advice” to others!!
@@garethjones6880 but you listen to that bottle blond misandrist in the video? Hilarious
@@BOZ_11 actually I stopped listening because it was kind of dull
I’ve watched plenty of Jordan Peterson and I still say he is unwell
It’s not a judgement, the guy had a really bad issue with drugs and it’s clear he’s suffering still and possibly a little high on his new found fame
I ask you too watch early Peterson and the guy that has surfaced now
As for Tate, the guy is a poor imitation of what he thinks a man is
Probably a bit like you champ 🤣😂😂
@@garethjones6880 you're talking to a complete stranger and you somehow think you know what you're talking about. If there's a champion here, it's you
Grim listening. I’ve got a 4yr old son and a daughter on the way. I hope the future looks brighter for them than it is now.
It doesn't. It's our job (yours) to protect them against all this.
True. Half an hour of my life I will never get back and all to sell a book. Bloody long advert
I'm with you, I have a 3 year old boy and I worry the same.
@@kdog4587 say with them, support them and make sure they are sociable. These extremists work by manipulating a persons worldview. Luckily they can only do that online, it's much harder to tell someone all women are deceitful evil scum if they have many good real life relationships with women, either as freinds or girlfriends or etc
I have a grown son and an 8 yr old son (two daughters too). Always keep parental controls for online and encourage independence before their teens (cooking, laundry etc). Most kids are not influenced by this, don’t worry - you got this.
The Matt Kenard interview on this channel 2 weeks ago explains just how and why this divisive content has so much weight on our algorithms.
Silent Coup. Corporations exist within a system, Capitalism. It's a fundamental fact that Capitalism serves money not people. Simple reality. Society is irrelevant. People dont matter.
The internet was a mistake.
Did not know that Andrew Tate manufactures semiconductor chips in Jail
Toxic masculinities favourite computer part? An incel pentium processor
Free the GpU, BTC is rising?.. 😂😂😂
As a father in my forties I have found the parent and children influence very warped in a similar way to you explain here. One instance was my son was in a group who were calling another child gay. The school immediately pulled the children aside and told them off. At no point did they open the discussion up about gay relationships and how being gay is a normal relationship and not negative in any way. I've seen a host of events where parents have separated due to relationship abusiveness. Those children were subsequently involved acts of violence, mostly on the opposite sex. I absolutely agree with everything here and I would love to hear more about how to guide my children through the issues that they face today.
Anytime I hear someone spouting the nonsense line that "there aren't any positive masculine role models other than these guys"... erm, Keanu Reeves?
If you really think Tate is manlier and more positive than Reeves, I can't help you.
On a scale of 1 to 10 how beta are you?
Who asked for your help anyway?
@@The_Reality_Filter Presumably you are the alpha's alpha.
KEANU REEVES....!?! You must be Gender confussed....?!! The only Women idolising him are the ones who never understood Masculinity in the first place.....!?! 🤭🤣 you know the ones who go for the "safe guy" !?!
@@rseta971 Roi Soi y u so soy?
This is a crazy take. Jordan Peterson has helped more people from the brink of destruction and pulled more young men away from the radical andrew tate narrative than anyone else including myself.
Ive never had more respect for women, myself and the world around me since watching jordans lectures.
Jordan has even publicly denounced tates philosophy, the women in this video couldnt be more disingenuous/misinformed.
Admittedly I can't recall seeing any Jordan Peterson misogyny, and glad he helped you, but he is very right wing and dog whistles for right wing extremists on occasion. He also talks about things he is at best ignorant. One thing that stuck with me was that he claimed the Nazis didn't use Jews as slave labour - totally factually incorrect and in the context of the video it verged on Nazi apologism.
@@andrewroberts8959 He is probably right wing by today's standards but anyone who considered themselves politically central has been pushed that way. Last time I checked being right wing isn't a crime by the way, it's a fundamental political stance that's needed alongside the left wing stance so that no one side becomes untrammeled.
Classical liberal views are no longer left wing but right wing. I'm not sure what incident you're talking about, I'm pretty sure he knows full well the Jews were worked to death horribly as he has mentioned in his lectures which I've watched many of personally. If you could point me towards the source of this dog whistling and nazi apologist statement I'd be grateful.
Must be a completely different Jordan Peterson to the one I know.
That's why critical thinking js so important. On a surface level Peterson is trying to help vulnerable men. In reality he is grooming them to be misogynists/transphobes while denying actual science like climate change.
@@teddypicker8799 Teddy, what is a misogynist? And will you fail like 99% of people who use the word, to explain its application and how it is prevalent in society?
@kalimd8393 someone that's prejudiced against women. Any questions?
@@teddypicker8799 theres no such thing as transgender so jordan peterson is not a transphobe
@Fun79181 objectively wrong. Even among animals there are dozens of transgender species.
When you are talking about Men's issue, it's not fair to equate all Incel to Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate. I believe the raise of Andrew Tate is symptom and not the cause. There is something missing in our current society that causes young men to gravitates towards Andrew Tate. And of course, its just 2 women giving their (woman) viewpoint and no man to put any topic from the men point of view.
To all you young man reading through the comment section, please for the love for god, give up on Andrew Tate. He is not a good role model (though I understand why boys would be drawn to it). If you want to hear someone empathizing with the struggle of boys and men, please search up Richard Reeves. He explains our issue through a more objective point of view, gives actual constructive feedback and also much better role model
Thought your first paragraph was spot on. Don't agree that Tate is a bad role model tho.
These women are discussing the effects of misogyny on women generally (and girls and young men) because we are the ones on the recieving end of all this stuff. The video is not about "men's issues".
@@powderandpaint14I'd argue when misogyny is towards women from men it's important both groups be represented. You can't solve the issue of misogyny with only women anymore than you can with only men. You need both sexes to explain their problems because young men are drawn to these spaces not young women, but women suffer, not men. Ultimately, as I've said before in this comments, fix the system, not the women OR the men.
@@darthdarkborg3857 yes, but this was just one discussion. There are more I'm sure with both men and women contributing.
*Having read her book, Laura Bates's analysis consists of claiming statistics are fake (with no further analysis) and calling people misogynistic (with no definition or evidence). They don't like to mention Richard Reeves because this would be harder to do with him.*
There’s a million and one better male role models for young men. As a man, I find Andrew Tate and toxic masculinity damaging for 100% of the population. There’s a sense of entitlement amongst certain groups of men, that leads them to believe they’re owed something by women; a completely skewed and unhealthy view of women and relationships perpetuates itself😮
That right! My go to youtuber for men's issue would be Richard Reeves. He explained it with evidence like Jordan Peterson but much much better with no politics.
How much soy milk do you drink per day?
@@The_Reality_Filterwhy
@The_Reality_Filter LOL and what's with the men in lowercase and Women in uppercase? 😂
I'm suspicious of Tate and Peterson, but I'm also suspicious of these shining examples of neomasculinity and their dedication to the standard liberal feminist narrative.
Many women will tell you that some of the most dangerous men use that rhetoric in order to get women to lower their guard.
Jordan Peterson has questionable ideas. He is dismissive of transgender identities. He does not believe in human caused climate change. His is also dismissive of systemic oppression.
So yeah. I don't agree with him on a lot of things. However I admire that he is a staunch advocate on personal responsibility. He is a major figure in self help industry and has a wealth of experience as a clinical psychologist. He also has broader insights into the role of myths and storytelling and their importance to the human condition.
I don't agree with much of what he has to say about men and women. He is a conservative with a traditional outlook on families. That said wanting a traditional nuclear family setup is not the same Andrew Tate's view on women.
Andrew Tate sees women as objects to exploit. Andrew Tate is a people trafficker and a con artist. I think lumping Jordan Peterson in the same category as this criminal is just plain ridiculous.
He is dismissive of transgender identities - please quote him? He refuses to accept that the law says that he must refer to someone as "They" but if the person asks him to, he will. Because he is a reasonable person. Canada is the only "free" country that has compelled speech and should be ashamed.
@doghouseriley4732 it's not just the law though he refuses to call people by their desired gender. He recently attacked elliot page and misgendered him and his decision to get breast reduction surgery.
If you have any questions feel free I would love to educate you on JP
Also good summary OP covered all the key facts
@@teddypicker8799 I have already called you a liar 6 or 7 times. Why would I think you can educate me on anything?
@@teddypicker8799 This is another lie. JP stated that if one of his student ask him to refer to them as They, he would do so out of common curtiousy. But he disagreed with a law which made him do it. Compelled speech only exists in one "free" country in the world and that is Canada. So much for freedom of speech.
Ummm... Huge irony, but part way through this video, UA-cam offered me up an ad for "my word is my bond" with Andrew Tate speaking over it (so presumably it's his product, or somehow connected to him). I think you can set preferences to disallow adverts from specific businesses... So please do that Politics Joe 😬
Anyone equivocating JP with Andrew Tate is being lazy as hell and not doing the work. Tiresome.
I understand about Andrew Tate but what has Jordan Peterson done wrong?
You really think these bimbos know anything lol
He thinks identity politics is wrong. He thinks free speech is right. He thinks compelled speech is wrong. He thinks women and men are different. he thinks life is hard, bloody hard. He has proved that social engineering has always failed. - Basically, he upsets the far right and far left. They want to identify you, so they can put tou in a box. So you are not a human, you are a white man, a black man, a hispanic woman. You have to be in a box so when hey try to divide and conquer, they know who you are.
Canada is the only "free" country that has compelled speech. Meaning that legally there are times when you are forced to say things. If you want to know more, google it. Jordan points out that this is very wrong and stupid.
He is invited to many universities around the world but some students object to him being allowed to speak. because they want freedom of speech as long as you agree with them. And he points out this absurdity.
I don't agree with everything he says but, he gets a lot right. And no-one wants to debate him because he eats people for breakfast.
Said that women should get married and have children young, along with a lot of other prescriptive right wing conservative stuff. Also he's tweeted transphobic things.
@powderandpaint14 That is good advice loads of generations before did that and it worked well for them by and large
@@LeeCharles1993 no it didn't, domestic violence, infidelity and addictions were absolutely commonplace.
This title was enough to make me unsubscribe
I think labelling disenfranchised young men as incels is probably going to radicalise them further. As disgusting as Andrew Tates rhetoric is he wants you to denigrate his watchers because it only plays into his narrative.
And as many others have said. Though I think Jordan Peterson is somewhat of a pseudo intellectual who goes on long aimless rambles and dresses them up as debate - he is not in the same category as Andrew Tate by any stretch.
Sure, they're not in the same category, but I do see them as two sides of the same coin, presenting young men with an image of masculinity that's at the heart of it egotistical and based on domination, e. g. social darwinism.
should we stop calling racists racist too?
I suppose that makes sense, but their underlying motivations and message are very different.
Peterson seems to be getting more and more incoherent by the day and borrows from so many different disciplines at once I'm frankly not sure anyone knows what he is on about most of the time (not sure he doe either). But he definitely means well in spite of his ego.
Tate is a clout chasing grifter who will say anything to make money and knows precisely the amount of harm he is imposing on the world but simply doesn't care as long as it makes him rich.
@@siobhan-rae You've won, congrats! The most stupid comment on the whole page. The prize will be winging it's way to you
"pseudo intellectual" - Ok, so the guy has a phd, has sold more books than you can count and is a university lecturer. Onloy one pseudo intellectual here......................
I find it so funny how this women is talking bout the Algorithm pushing Andrew tate but that man is particularly cancelled on every social media except Twitter
If you actually listen to Peterson he actually explains to men how to escape incel culture, get and be loyal to one lady, have children, and find a meaningful life.
They hate it cause the advice they want out there is invalid now
They are scared to even interact with normal comments that don't agree with their agenda :) I have outgrown JP, but he was useful at some point in my life and he tries to uplift guys who are in various stages of their lives.
Clearly these two know very little of Peterson, evidenced very clearly throughout the video - else they wouldn't have bundled him in with TATE! Ridiculous
Where does he teach them to find women?
Ahh ain't that sweet super class for dummies
I believe that porn is in a large part to blame. It has developed a generation of boys who think that women who do not offer sex in the way that porn actors portray, are withholding and actively attacking them in some way. This creates a baseline resentment of women and then slowly builds up the incel movement.
Or in results in an addiction to porn, so that having loving intimate relationships becomes very difficult.
Yeah, comparing these guys to something like mainstream porn and you have to wonder why the priority of focus on these guys?
psssst not all porn is straight and not all porn is watched by men
@@Bluudclaat Because the way that Andrew Tate refers to women, the image that he portrays of women, comes straight out of pornography. A lot of pornography is closely connected to misogyny.
@@iamjurell Sure - but the topic of the video is about extreme misogyny.
A lot of the things you discuss as to how to stem the Tate types seem similar to me to be the types of things I've heard Jordan Peterson also talk about. Granted I'm sure there's some stuff he says I've missed or misinterpreted, haven't heard anything from him for a while, but it doesn't seem like they should be lugged together like that.
@@octomancer *I have read her book. Laura Bates's analysis consists of claiming statistics are fake (with no further analysis) and calling people misogynistic (with no definition or evidence).*
sometimes i wonder if i ended up getting a better education about sex and consent because i watched content that involved kink? like before the scene both actors would be there talking about what they like, what they don’t like, what their looking forward to, so i just figured you do that before sex.
This is such a good comment because it gives a way we can improve things from a different angle. Personally I had a similar experience with online stuff where people discuss boundaries first, and this should 100% be the norm. Even if people skip it just showing them that boundaries and taste are discussed is important. Most useful addition to the conversation I've read yet.
It's amazing how Bates can continuously pass off extreme hatred for white men, yet preaches about "extremism."
“Oasis and The Prodigy are two of the most iconic bands of the 90s…”
“But they sound nothing like each other!”
“I know but they’re both still emblematic of a certain period in popular music…”
“But you said both their names in the same sentence so you must think they’re the same!”
“You’re an idiot”
Why is Jordan Peterson's name in the title?
Clickbait. They are grifting a book and his name will bring in all the haters. Like lemmings
Can you imagine a show where two men discuss women’s issues?
Can you picture how the woken would look after hearing two men discussing how dangerous Taylor Swift is?
I have been corrected on the following point, and no longer stand by this statement.
Taylor Swift has very little to say about Feminism. I don't think she is viewed as dangerous.
Better examples would include Anita Sarkessian. She had a lot of criticism for her content, and also her slow output.
Also men do in fact discuss women's issues. Plenty of MGTOW groups have their own perspective on women's issues. There are Conservative Christian and Muslim men who talk about women's issues. On their other side of the political spectrum, there are male feminists who discuss women's issues.
Lupo, I would invite you to take a look at any number of podcasts like fresh and fit. They try to talk about how they know what's best for women and how they should be subservient housewives who should be seen and not heard.
bro i would like you to take a look at the gender breakdown in every parliament, senate and government building on this planet
I guess men aren't stupid enough to think that this passes as content. It's an infomercial for a book, sold on the back of Jordan Peterson
@@The482075yes but I’m a man, I find what Taylor swift says to girls in her songs completely unacceptable and as such it is dangerous.
Andrew Tate I agree with but this just screams yet another video where Jordan Peterson's been misunderstood.
In what way has he been misunderstood?
"I enjoy raping you" -andrew tate
He rages on about “cultural Marxism” and other weird stuff the German nationalists did in the 30s and odd Christian stuff… yeah he ain’t misunderstood, his self help that is a copy of stuff from 20 years ago is fine but the rest nahhhh,
@@raquetdude Don't forget about the lobsters!
Anytime he strays into other area's that are not his own he always lets his 'feelings' & 'beliefs' to dictate his idea's & arguments. No misunderstanding him when we can hear what he is saying with our own ears.
Assuming you mean incel rather than Intel. I expect Intel might be upset with an association to Andrew Tate.
Quick edit so they look like they know what they are doing.........................................
"Incel inside"- oxymoronic.
Why no mention of the rape epidemic in sub saharan Africa?
@@The_Reality_Filter Is a bot or an imbecile.
@@doghouseriley4732 It's a typo. Also, did your full stop key break?
Not just young people. I know a 36 year old software engineer. Successful on paper but had bad personal troubles and over the past couple years he's been listening to these wetwipes and adopted some terrible views. It's just fragile people looking for something to blame
What’s Peterson said that’s so bad?
Can someone tell me the name of some alternative role models who are on the left?
I'm curious to know what kind of life advice they have to offer.
Go with the program. Believe the lies. Maybe, if you can't beat them, join them?
Not being cheeky but I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.
As far as I can tell, there aren't any intellectuals on the left that have reasonable arguments for their views. I'm trying to find some.
Can we please advocate for better education and pay, invest in our youth rather than give the government more overreach
Jordan & Andrew are not a 'tips', they are what is referred to as 'taints'.
Such an important conversation!
Here is a list if popular female influencers who have bragged about assaulting or sexually assaulting men:
-Cardi B
-Alex Cooper (call her daddy podcast)
-Drew Affualo
-Lana Rhoades
-Riley Reid
-Amy Schumar
-Julia Fox
-Francesca Farago
-Corina Kopf
-danielle bregoli
Two wrongs don't make a right.
@@AIBETTSYIA75 but the thing is theyre lives dont get ruined
ours do though
Interesting conversation with some valid points....except for one thing. Why is Jordan Peterson included on the title of this post? I only heard him mentioned once in reference to boys tidying up their rooms. Does this somehow nominate him as residing at the 'tip of the Incel iceberg'. If so, how? I'd genuinely like to know how this connection is made.
The video needs a title change. Very much bait, it diminishes what Laura has to say. I came into the video already annoyed by the title, if you want people to listen to Laura and take on what she has to say with an open mind don't poison the well before she has a chance to speak. The most important part of the discussion is the opinions of the children. Can easily have as jarring a title to get people to click on the video with something along the lines of 'School children normalise sexual violence'
grifting a book
"it diminishes what Laura has to say"
- eh? she said she found a web forum (presumably not on the dark web, or some cess pool) where men are advocating r4pe and murd3r of women. she's a shameless liar, plugging her book.
I think people having children now owe it to their kids to be the role modes in their lives. To break the cycle. I’m still undoing the harm my parents caused me as a kid. Im not saying they’re bad parents. I’m not saying they’re bad people. But childism has been going on for decades and it will take generations to undo that. I’m doing my bit with my son. But it’s difficult to unlearn all of it.
I feel you, too many parents relying on the state to raise their children without getting involved in their development after sending them to school. Not their fault as such when both parents probably having to work, just speaking from my own experience, felt I came out of school with very little direction or guidance
What?
@@JabRok86to parent is and has always been a parents job though. A lot of parents are cowards though, because they have their own baggage. It's of course no excuse.
@@TheDavveponken ye for sure, part of that growing up process is just acceptance of certain realities I guess
They ALWAYS owed it. Kids needs to be RAISED not just thrown into this world without a proper guide.
Also if they harmed you they ARE bad parents and people. Stop this mindless exception. You do NOT owe your parents ANYTHING! They are NOT "Gods"
My good friend has fallen down the rabbit-hole. It's got to a point where I cannot reason with him anymore and I fear our friendship wont recover. He constantly talks about how men are being discriminated against, women are pretending they've been raped, anything even remotely considered "woke" is evil and he calls feminists... "feminazis" When I ask him for examples how he, an individual is being discriminated against he never comes up with one.
Male empowerment is needed. Life as a young man coping with all these hormones (especially testosterone) trying to find our way in the world is tough and the left need to provide more role models otherwise we'll just have more Andrew Tate's.
Your friend sounds like a very intelligent young man
He’s just playing the victim card. Help him realise it
@@RonanTOC your cry for help is being heard, there are people who can help you be able to deal with the world you live in
What we really need to do is get rid of role models and learn to accept people for who they are, not the role they may fit
If they want better role models, they're out there. So many happy, well-adjusted blokes that can be looked to as a lighthouse in the storm.
I think what people like your friend needs is better education, to be able to recognise grifters like Tate and Peterson for what they are.
Because guys like them, they're seeking out marks. Good role models are busy doing their thing, they ain't gonna look for you, but these two guys just wanna sell you crap.
Really sorry but i think its appalling to compare Jordan Peterson with Andrew Tate - Jordan Peterson is not an incel and has never advocated violence or aggression towards women - come on politics joe you are better than this
I like the fact that they talked about female right concerning ukraine. That the females should be held in the country and be forced to fight on the frontline the same as men. Thank you ! ❤
JP believes in the sanctity of marriage. Hes far from being incel
Exactly. They really don't understand what JP is all about. They probably just watched anti-Peterson clips.
peterson is the classic example of 'too much clonazepam changes your brain' and tate is just a classic example of 'small man syndrome' gone very wrong.
"Small Man Syndrome"
Just say you see shorter men as lesser. If you're gonna live by the social hierarchy then at least be honest with yourself and others
@@painunending4610 You're taking that phrase at its most literal. "Small" as in the perception of self; of someone who feels like a child among adults and, as such, acts out in an effort to assert and impress.
@@django3422 That's a rather generous interpretation
Be real, it's a dig at his height. Short men are treated like trash. It's nothing new
And what's wrong with asserting and impressing? Let me guess you think a man should just BE those things not have to DO them?
@@painunending4610 It's a genuine interpretation. Whereas your interpretation seems to be driven by a personal bitterness.
Nor did I state there was a problem with asserting yourself or impressing others, as such. The issue is in the "acting out". As in, to act out of character. This means an otherwise pleasant person coming across like a bully and a braggart, because they think it'll make people think higher of them.
@@django3422 It's not personal bitterness, I'm not even short. But it is a bitterness at the way shorter men are unfairly treated
Anyway, what's wrong with bitterness? Many people are bitter about the way they're treated, it's a normal human emotion
I bring it up because nobody else does. If we want equality and justice then we need to stand up for people who need our help, like shorter men
Professor Peterson and Andrew Tate are not comparable. For the most part, Prof P uses sound academic evidence to back his statements (which can be disputed as appropriate)...and actually comports with relative politeness, care and integrity. He accepts discussion and debate. Andrew Tate is a different matter though, from what I've seen he tends to lean toward incendiery and mysoginistic behaviour without evidence...just his opinion...he taps into masculine insecurities that we all have as men.
He is not a misogynist. If you actually watch the longer form content. I am of the left but it is particularly weak in this area
This statement may have been true a few years ago, but since JP's 'Up yours woke moralists!' / daily wire era began, there's been a sharp drop in both his use of evidence and his politeness, care and integrity...
Peterson is much derided for the fact that he uses minimal evidence to springboard a political view, he really isnt a person who should be used as a meter for integrity.
Jordan Peterson doesn't use any studies or "academic evidence" when talking about why women wear makeup and why women can't work with men in the workplace. He spouts out the same opinionated bulshit that Andrew Tate does but just sugar-coats it with fancy language. He may have some alright advice for self-improvement, but his bread and butter is disregarding any form of progressive social change that aids women, LGBTQ people or any minority group. That's why he got famous and that's why his fans are mostly incels/misogynists/conservatives/racists etc
Peterson is even more dangerous than Tate because he's got a convincing background behind him. But he's as sexist as Tate!!!!. a despicable man!!
Glad to see this because so many men who think they’re on the ‘left’ are really not on the left when it comes to women’s issues (and also to disability issues tbh) like they have no idea and no interest or curiosity to look at it.
But of course you do. It must me amazing breathing in the rarified air from the lofty height of your ivory tower. How do you suffer the peasants?
@@doghouseriley4732 🤣🤣🤣
Oh yeah man, these two ladies and this video they made, and the group they represent have totally succeeded in pulling young men away from the manosphere ....... NOT. Are you freaking serious, it's precisely because of these people and what they say and the way they talk about men and the way they're pushing society to treat Men that Men and Boys are literally running away from them in droves and jumping in the lap of the manosphere, a lot of which are indeed grifters, but a lot of them are indeed genuine and honest about trying to help. So yeah ... I suggest more of these clearly misandrists speak up, so that we can save more men from them.
@@mustno3 you very clearly didn’t watch it.
@@mustno3I don’t even know why they are being taking seriously, they don’t represent our views. It’s like a man saying dv is not bad like how would we know we are least likely to be victims
The toxic feminity challenge: How long can you listen?
I got to 6:42 before the stupidity overload caused me to vomit.
You did better than me. Well done.
Hopefully you were laying on your back
I forced my way through the whole thing. Not without posting four comments tho lol Must not give in. Must face and fight feminist bullshit.
😍
@@blessos I'm sure the feminist bullshit appreciates you feeding the youtube algorithm with your comments so more people will see the video (while hardly anyone will see your comments). Must not give in, lol.
I genuinely do not understand the whole liberal hate that Peterson gets.
Peterson is about actual self help for a group of people, in this case being young white men, who do feel worthless, unappreciated and unable to express their feelings due to social norms. And let's be fair, there is a good reason why they feel that way and do desperately need help.
And Tate is all about big cars, big ego, big money, treating women like an object and treating women like a right to own.
So you haven't noticed the misogynistic and transphobic things that Jordan Peterson has said?
It's because he dares to challenge their dogma
he lost me at “cultural marxism”
@@powderandpaint14 Still waiting for the twitter links for tansphobic comments................................................................................................
As for mysoginy. 80% of his students are women, they actually choose to study with him. They must be the only women who don't think he is a mysogonist 🤔
He started a rise to prominence around the time that "toxic masculinity" was the latest flavour...and he pushed back against it. This clearly ruffled some feathers and most decided to just slag him off rather than debate his ideas....those who did try and debate (Cathy Newman.....GQ magazine) came in woefully u prepared and made fools of themselves. I suppose its easier to say "JP BAD" than try and have a nuanced position like "I may not agree with some/a lot of what he says but some of the positive messages he puts out such as ABC are quite constructive and helpful" - easier to slam him and move on
Most people who come on here for an interview are here to eventually advertise what they have written or filmed etc.
Why is this particular person being demonised for it? Its exactly the same for anyone they interview. They have experts or those who have studied these topics on and then they reference the book etc. What is it about this woman doing it that makes people say thay this conversation is a grift?
Grifting advert and clickbait
*Having read her book, Laura Bates's analysis consists of claiming statistics are fake (with no further analysis) and calling people misogynistic (with no definition or evidence).*
Marxists: "Young men need more social supports (men's groups, government funding, etc.". Jordan Peterson: "Young men need to find meaning through the adoption of personal responsibility." We are not the same.
I'm a bit older than Tate's target audience but how it creeped into my feed was scary - showing how easily younger people can be brought in. Started as simple; Split the bill on dates, respect yourself and don't be treated unfairly. Very quickly became Tate talking about his cam industry and Fresh and Fit just being horrific to woman. It's easy to see how this content is created and pushed but younger boys don't realise this.
Oh come on, tate has done more good for young guys than these two types of dimwits in this video that can't comprehend the changed times.
You are dead wrong young people are brought in to their content because they relatable to their experiences.
@@Han-nk3io In reality, they are not relatable, it's all constructed to gaslight the audience to think that their problems are larger than they are and twisting their minds to make them the victim and Tate the only man with the answer so quick, better give him £50. Relationships are only one aspect of life, and women have enough reasons to reject you, as you do them.
What exactly does Tate and fresh n fit say wrong? What is wrong with what they say?
A good question is 'who in the media is choosing to give him this platform'? Who is making the decisions? Who is choosing to give him clear and tacit support? Apart from the usual bunch of reactionary old men? We need a new media so badly.
You don't see the irony in your statement do you? Words like "Toxic Masculinity" "Mansplaining "Manspreading" have been part of mainstream Western media vernacular for some years now and it's these very words/concepts that have created a new media for Men like Andrew Tate to thrive in...
For there dads and grandads they built social skills playing outside and talking face to face with people, women finds confidence attractive
,
Boys who grew up on video games and movies where the characters just got the girl at the end , plus haviing very little social skills it’s easy for them to get bitter because it’s easier to blame someone else for your problems then blaming yourself
The mainstream media denounce Andrew Tate, even The BBC did a hit piece on him. I dont agree with everything he says but there is as yet no evidence that he is the criminal human trafficker he has been portrayed as, I also wouldnt have Laura Bates as a role model for men, some elitist privately educated feminist who doesnt even register her own class privelidge.
MISOGYNY SHOULD BE PUNISHED BY LAWS WITH TONS OF YEARS OF WORKING FOR COMMUNITY UNDER A VERY SCRUTINIZING 👀 ….
Less than 1% of rape accusations result in a conviction. Also a very small number meet the criteria for a proven false accusation like 2%, so thats 97% that neither reaches the legal standard of proven beyond a reasonable doubt and neither satisfies the researcher's standard of a false accusation. To assume all those 97% is all true like Laura does is not logical.
I'm deeply disappointed by this video, and with it disappointed in Politics Joe. As a man, listening to hate speech like this, for that is how I see it, hatred of men, is well below the standard I expected.
What did you regard as hate speech?
@@Bibibi1990The part where women sit and decide which aspects of men are ok and which aren't and how to shape society along those ideological lines..
Oh wait, I guess that's all of it then.
You very clearly didn’t watch it.
@@BooksWeCanRead I did. I watched the whole thing. And I agree with the OP.
So we shouldn't discuss mens issues and the implications that has on wider society?
Jesus be fair. Where does Peterson even mention hitting or raping women.
Does anyone know what the best online resource for how to have these conversations as a parent, and what ages these conversations should be had at?
chatgpt lol
You know, I’ve never met anyone that identifies as an incel. I don’t think it’s a tag I would personally attach to myself, even if it was true. But who knows. What I know of it is very weird. Men entitled to access women etc. hesres a thought, have a bath, get a haircut, clean your teeth, respect the opposite sex. See where it gets you. Live a good life, do good things for others and see your life change.
The "identity politics" fans love to put everyone in a box, apart from themselves of course.
Or just be really rich and you'll have pussy on tap...now what do they call those types of women?
Literally exactly what peterson recommends lol
@@TheLuketh1990I don't think Peterson is necessarily bad and certainly not in comparison to Tate. His issues on women working/becoming mothers and that side is problematic and the side I criticise. Whether it's his religious belief or his generation I don't know, but this is the main area for me that I find Peterson isn't helpful for young men or women.
Many women choose not to be mothers and choose careers and that's absolutely fine, same as it is for men. Pushing the narrative that all women inherently need to be mum's and will regret having a career and not having kids and that men won't so therefore men are the career driven ones and women aren't is ridiculous. I have many friends, a sister and parents friends who chose their careers or even just a child free life and are wildly happy, without having to have kids. I have a child and I adore him, but I love my job too, his viewpoint is just very old fashioned and I think if that seeps into younger men's minds, that their partners have to want kids or shouldn't put their careers first etc is worrying.
I'll be making sure my son knows he doesn't need to have kids, or he can, or he can have a career he loves or he can be a stay at home dad, it's all a matter of choices for him and his partner whoever they may be, if he chooses to have one.
That's my criticism of him, but I don't agree that everything he says is negative nor is he the same as Tate at all.
@@TheLuketh1990 well I must be that good
Bad form Joe... Bad form. Unjust conflation I wouldn't expect from you.
Grifting for clickbait and a book sale.
I don't think Peterson is masogynistic, he is wrong about a lot though. He's got decent analysis on certain issues, but Tate is just a troll. If either of them debated Richard Dawkins they'd get destroyed
Richard Dawkins is a fool in many regards.
If you looked on UA-cam there are videos of Peterson and Dawkins. Spoiler alert: Peterson wasn't destroyed
@@blessos which regards?
@@alexanderstefanov6474 Mainly in subscribing to a philosophical position of rationalism / scientific materialism whilst seemingly claiming total objectivity and no commitment to dogma
I’ve watched a huge amount of Jordan Peterson. He offers some superb insights from a much needed perspective
, especially for men who are struggling. I also subscribe to PJ and Media and others. It all needs to be taken in. But in a demolished UK, led by the worst of us…. I think it’s very difficult to fix anything!!!
Thoughts on him saying women sexually assaulted at uni were at fault for being drunk and saying wearing make up invites sexual harassment?
Also do you support his claim that climate change doesn't exist?
@@teddypicker8799 first two are appalling statement from any human being. BUT they do NOT degrade anything of quality said by that human. Re. Climate change….I don’t think he said that exactly but he leant toward it not being as bad as suggested. On climate change …probably JP, you and me disagree. I believe it’s coming…..and it’s thoroughly deserved as the human race has destroyed this planet. Now some smaller voices and even larger voices express alarm……too late!!!!! You watch us and how deplorable we are…. You don’t need to save the planet you need to change humanity….it’s impossible. How about you? Do you think JP has said anything supportive meaningful, helpful, caring….or is he a monster?
@@teddypicker8799 Lie, again Teddy. How many times are you goping to lie. What he asks is for people to accept the reason why women wear liptick and other make-up. And most women know why and are not scared to admit it. Then we have the flakey idiots that want to tell us that the sun is bl;ack and that women wear make-up to make them feel better about themselves or social pressures.
@doghouseriley4732 he did say that you can easily search "vice Jordan peterson" to confirm my first 2 points.
In regards to climate change he's tweeted about it and mentioned it in interviews just search his name and "climate change".
Any further questions let me know :)
@@teddypicker8799 ummmmm what about my ONLY question?? Has JP offered any good or support or is he 100% monster monster??
Fully agree relationship education (perhaps a rebrand of "sex education" might cool the jets a little?) is severely lacking. As is critical thinking, which i think would also massively help with all of the radicalisation issues we face these days.
I dunno about relationship education, there's a lot of subjectivity in there but maybe there's some broad strokes that everyone finds useful. Definitely something to think about.
But critical thinking, absolutely. I listen to some of the young lads at work and they consistently get taken in by the laziest rhetoric.
Finally, people who understand the dark nuance of all this! I'm here for it! Something else I would like to point out is that there are some women out there who also follow and defend the JPs of this world (I knew one) and I wanted to anonymously talk about my experience on Twitter and I found out she was stalking and screencapping my tweets.
There is nothing wrong with Jordan Peterson, not sure why he has been pointed out as some sort of nafarious being.
I really dislike how JP is put in the same category as Tate. How can you do that and claim to be having an honest conversation?? The two couldnt be more different. Argh!
They both target the same audience.
For these guys both of them criticise feminim and promote masculinity. So they r same. These ppl cant think beyond that
Lots of articles, mostly by women, telling guys how to change their nature. Men telling women to change would be evil sexism.
Belle Hooks said, “women ask men to say how they feel, then criticise them when they do”. Lumping in anyone you disagree with as “incels” is problematic & regressive
No debale just two people reinforcing there own opinions
Echo chamber. PoliticsJoe's new low. Shame really because theur UK politics stuff is really good
Correct. You have correctly identified that this is not a debate. This is a dialogue or an interview. Not everything with 2 people talking is a debate. And it's, 'their'.
@@Stoic_grimace It's a grift. An advert to sell a book on the back of Jordan Peterson's name. Love the way it sucks all the haters in.
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It's pretty dangerous pitting Jordan Peterson in the same conversation as Andrew Tate. Tate, as far as I understand, actively encourage disgusting behaviour towards women. Peterson on the other hand explains and demonstrates why things are the way they are, and this bit is important, from a clinical and scientific perspective. Peterson does not encourage violence towards women or anything of the sort. It's like conspiracy theorists attacking Chris Witty; you can choose to not like what he says, but you don't have a right to deny fact and science.
This is part of the problem of watching Peterson passively. What Tate says outright, he says within a word salad. His ‘respectable’ persona belies his inceldom. He gaslights women and demeans them for wanting anything outside the Christian heteronormative experience. This includes violence.
I completely agree with you, Andrew Tate lies most of the time and paints a picture of society that mirrors, countries in South Asia or the Middle East where women don’t have as much liberty. Now Jordan Peterson on the other hand has a phd in psychology and his statements on anti social behaviour and other psychology based subjects should be listened to as intresting or intriguing. His climate change or religious stuff on the other hand is a different thing it’s right wing but it isn’t incel. Jordan Peterson even if it was a mild reference seemed to reference the problem with Andrew Tate and provides clear pyscological advice for people struggling with life. So again I agree with this comment.
But he’s not saying things ‘just how they are’, he’s promoting a very restrictive and dismissive view of how both men and women “should” be, based on pseudo science. As a woman his opinions are totally objectionable.
Interest how these "clever" people never want to get on stage and debate with him. Brave keyboard/social media warriors................
@@orangewasejected8308 That's a complete deliberate misrepresentation. He explains from a scientific and factual basis how men and women have been brought up to be. He is a professor, that is his job. When you go to school and learn about the second world war in your history class, you wouldn't accuse the teacher of promoting Nazism. As a man, your opinion on scientific fact is totally objectionable.
keep going.. love the video
I love the (typo) title and while it's true to an extent its not just incels that watch them. People with narcissism or grew up without a dad also are drawn to these guys
Not true, it's largely just guys that exist in a world where they perceive they have no power or options.
But it is great seeing people who are completely insulated from the changing world talk about evil men.
I would like to see them talk about how women cut the legs out of other women.
@@chrisspencer6502 these men are lost, and their logic and reasoning is deeply flawed. Unfortunately, their lack of maturity means they find role models like Tate and Peterson, who are equally mentally and emotionally stunted, but because they present their views in an easily digestible way, that sounds plausible, it’s gobbled up and perpetuated.
The reality is, perfectly masculine men can, and do, move with the times, respect women and children, and prosper without developing a victim mentality.
You obviously know nothing about Peterson. 80% or so of his students are female - that might explain why the whole arguement about him is political crap
Wow, so Spencer and Gwap... you have a medical doctorate on psychology?
@@Adamnlaw not a Doctorate, a bachelors, but I’m just as qualified to speak on it as he is. His thesis was on markers for the predisposition of alcoholism…so not remotely relevant.
Anything else?
I can take or leave some of Jordan Peterson's content but it comes from a good place, can't stand Tate however. I'm coming from the left btw so i am in no way a supporter of the right wing (anything past centre right anyway) and i really don't see how Jordan Peterson has stoked violence, misogony or racism in any way.
It doesn't help that instagram are shutting down sexual education creators which just leaves a big vacuum for porn to fill.
I don't actually think some pf JP's stuff does come from a good place though, the misogynistic and transphobic things he has said are just damaging.
@@powderandpaint14 Over 40 mins now, still waiting for thoise transphobic twitter links you promised. Smells like bullshit
@@powderandpaint14 name one thing he said
@@christianschulz1443 that the surgeon that performed surgery on Elliot Page is "evil".
Did this really need an unexplained race analysis - saying misogyny is ignored because white men aren't seen as terrorists... And nothing said to back it up.
Way to turn off people who genuinely want to learn about sexism.
Chivalry and romance are dead, but women like you Laura, killed them.
the way its been less than a day and I can already see incels and bot accounts leaving comments is horrendous. Good work Joe this is a very important video
The majority of comments on here are unbelievably ill-informed. It’s horrendous how people such as yourself will not have watched their longer form content and still have such a strong opinion on 2 men you will inevitably know next to nothing about. Watch Tates Valuetainment interview (all 5 hours of it) for example, and then come back. The left are so weak in this area, and it doesn’t help the overall cause of human betterment, which is a shame because I am of the left and find the lack of reality based thinking quite worrying in the fight against the right.
Incels have nothing in common with Tate and Peterson. They abhor such behaviour
@@octomancer Ironically, for people who are apparently so vehemently against "conspiracy theories" the modern Left sure do like to throw out a whole bunch of their own...
@@octomancerAgreed.
I found the person being interviewed as coming across as being misandrist, extreme one actually. Who knows what that means?
*Having read her book, Laura Bates's analysis consists of claiming statistics are fake (with no further analysis) and calling people misogynistic (with no definition or evidence).*
spent maybe 20 minutes in 4chan. It is in fact pretty degenerate. Imagine the average twitch chat but with half the decency. Then again, it's just the degenerate people are really bad. I think there are still some normal people there, pretty sure
In a world of algorithms and 'likes', rejection (real or imagined) is a big fear. Self perpetuating though - the more they act like A-holes the more they'll be rejected...
I agree with most of what Laura Bates says. I think appropriate sex education is really important and key to the whole thing, unfortunately the UK has become extraordinarily puritanical recently. There has always been a vacuum when it comes to sex education. Men - and women should ideally be taught how to give each other pleasure during sex.
The problem is also this whole Alpha/Beta narrative where its constantly reinforced to men that being anything less than Alpha is inadequate and unattractive. It's like how women are told they need to have a certain body image to be considered attractive. It's an incredibly shallow and materialistic view of relationships. I think it is deeper and wider than just porn and sex, youtube, influencers etc. This is a symptom of the kind of late stage hierarchical unequal, materialistic, capitalist society we live in. For example, where I work there are now so many tiers to the pyramid half the managers don't have anything to do. It's completely pointless because we are all experienced professionals. Ideally, a company like mine should work cooperatively with no hierarchy, but rather more teamwork and a flater structure. But its all part of the system that fosters this alpha-male narrative that both men and women fall into believing and adhering to.
To be fair some of the dating coach videos for men are produced now by women such as the following below, where they advocate manning up (I actually think what they mean is for men to be assertive which is different from aggressive), but anyway, I wanted to make the point that it can be confusing for young men to understand what women like vs. don't like etc, because even some women say they like Alphas and it does appear they sometimes some of them do get drawn to bad boys (as some men get drawn to bad girls). In the end sex, love and relationships are a murky complex area but there are clearly some no-nos, like non-consensual sex etc. Maybe we need to just make it crystal clear to young men what those obvious red lines are since men respond to simple clear rules. Maybe start with that, then get more subtle and nuanced.
ua-cam.com/users/shortszZFKUGmUyYs
Right, so do you just want to admit your socialist that admires communism?
You do realize that the whole alpha and beta thing came from feminism ideology as a concept from the start? and they took it from the wolfs. And hence the term "sigma male" also appeared.......
But heey, feminists are idiots and not scholars and nor are they in pshycology or biology or evolution pshycology, just a sad ideology as nazism.
I'm an incel. To me sex education was like learning algebra in school
Utterly worthless to me. Hasn't helped me at all in my life.
Why should I be taught knowledge that I will never use
You sex-havers really want the whole world to revolve around you huh? Sorry it's the incels turn now
I’m kinda shocked and not shocked such forums exist, for a short term answer the government needs to throw money back at the police, give them the resources to monitor and enforce against this shitty behaviour. In the longer term society really needs educating, I don’t like the sound of teaching young kids in the way discussed, but if it helps then surely we just have to get over that
Let's be honest feminism is the problem
A strong religion is the only antidote.
Is their proof that works ?
@@johnchrysostomou9417 A strong religion provides certainty and creates community bonds. Our society is divided and quarrelsome because we don't have a common religion. Ironically Islam recognises that which is why it seeks to dominate.
@@charlo90952 if one is that insecure then probably.
@@johnchrysostomou9417 Try watching some videos by Shaheed Bolsen. See if he convinces you. I've found him very persuasive. We have some very fundamental problems in the West that colour our judgement.
Absolutely absurd to bundle Jordon Peterson with Andrew Tate. They are poles apart and neither are the sort of characters these two are talking about - I presume their names are chucked in the clickbait title to get views, which is a pretty crass thing to do and isa good readon to ignore these two and this channel. Permanently.