Cartridges and Pins - Hidden Famicom Converters in NES Games |

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  • Опубліковано 6 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 197

  • @therealhardrock
    @therealhardrock 16 років тому +1

    I've found that the graphical mess-ups in NES games are usually caused by the pins being slightly misaligned with the connector and that jiggling the cartridge around can make them go away. Also many of the used games that I've bought have been glitchy at first, but the longer they stay working normally, the more they do so.

  • @breck8668
    @breck8668 7 років тому +20

    So if you had an nes to famicom adapter and a copy of gyromite, you would have a famicom game, connected to a famicom to nes adapter, connected to an nes to a famicom adapter?
    I JUST CONFUSED MYSELF

    • @emptyspotlight
      @emptyspotlight 4 роки тому

      Basically... Took me awhile to understand that

  • @shon76
    @shon76 8 років тому +11

    I did this back in the day when I got the yellow Super Mario 3 For Famicom. I forgot who told me about this back then. Wasn't no internet or google back when I was in the 8th grade.

  • @TheDemoniusX
    @TheDemoniusX 11 років тому +14

    How come there isn't more Famicom dojo.It's a cool show.

    • @SeanOrange
      @SeanOrange  8 років тому +2

      ua-cam.com/users/famicomdojo

  • @Malmern
    @Malmern 14 років тому +3

    Does that mean that if you have a game with a built in adapter, you could play any Famicom game on your NES, just plug the Japanese game into the adapter?

  • @TBustah
    @TBustah 11 років тому +2

    4:52
    Atari/Tengen didn't reverse engineer it. They tried to, but failed, and ended up resorting to lying to the patent office in order to get the schematics for the chip so they could get around it.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @1soniccool Thanks for the suggestion, but as this video was made two years ago we already have settled on a name: Denshimail. We have six of them up already: check 'em out! ;)

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому +1

    We're going to start up a mailbag segment, and that is going to be one of the questions we will investigate and answer.
    Short verion: you just won't hear anything, since there's no circuit to the sound board. But we want to actually verify that experimentally.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    That's probably something I should have mentioned in the video, but didn't. We plan on doing a piece on the Sharp Twin Famicom at some point, so we'll be able to cover it there, I think.

  • @Kani8122
    @Kani8122 3 роки тому +1

    I know this video is 13 years old, but...
    6:39 This bit about SNES & N64 being region free apart from video output differences is completely false.
    They both have a lockout chip that locks them into one of two regions: NTSC or PAL.

    • @FamicomDojo
      @FamicomDojo 3 роки тому +1

      To be more specific, we meant region-free between NTSC, so the US and Japan.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    It was an expansion port meant for the US version of the Disk System. The sound expansion pins are routed through that port -- theoretically so that the add-on could supply one sound chip for any game that wanted to use it. But since an expansion port was never released, we'll never know for sure.
    Either way, the spec for the NES cartridge pins eliminated the sound expansion passthrough that the Famicom had.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  13 років тому

    @mjkl131 Yes, with an adapter. Although any cartidges that have a built-in sound expansion will not have sound, since those pins are not used in the NES cartridge slot.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @Malmern Yes, BUT:
    1) You would need a toploader NES or jury-rig a ribbon or some other method to pull the whole thing out of your "toaster" NES
    2) Any games with expanded sound capabilities would (probably) work for the most part, but you would not hear any sounds that would have come over the extra sound channel. The NES has the capability, but isn't properly wired to use it.

  • @GeoGrig
    @GeoGrig 9 років тому

    that yellling sound at 0:18 was from a disco song from the 80's ... can someone remind me which one it is?

  • @barbararuff4507
    @barbararuff4507 8 років тому +1

    actually the PCE/TurboGrafix 16 used a very similar technology for the game cards (i cant remember their name)

  • @slyther2
    @slyther2 14 років тому

    @SeanOrange some of my famicom carts dont save well. I dont see any kind of replacable batteyr on them? How can I replace the battery?

  • @Coderjo.
    @Coderjo. 8 років тому +1

    An FDS for the NES would have still required a cart, since the expansion port did not have most of the CPU address pins nor any of the PPU bus pins. As a result, a cart with RAM in it would need to be inserted to provide the data to the CPU and PPU.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    Not every copy does. There might be sites that tell you how to determine this from external clues. One of them is the balance test (if it balances near the pins, it's probably an adapter). I'm not entirely sure why they did it in the first place, nor when they ultimately switched.

  • @DAS64
    @DAS64 16 років тому

    Thats cool!
    What if I'm in a pawn shop, and I see a stack up of Gyromite carts.
    how do I tell which ones has the region adepter?

  • @fromthedepthsofreddit278
    @fromthedepthsofreddit278 8 років тому +1

    can you make repro carts with the adapter if a old game has it

  • @ionlyuseblade9947
    @ionlyuseblade9947 7 років тому +1

    Could I play a Koei games (Genghis Khan or Nobunaga’s Ambition) for Famicom games on NES with 60 to 72 pin converter?

  • @xbuster3
    @xbuster3 11 років тому +2

    i gotta thank you for the video. i luckily found a copy of gyromite with the converter because of this video

  • @drchipohpoh
    @drchipohpoh 16 років тому

    what other NES games do you know of that have that converter inside of them?

  • @shorty1k
    @shorty1k 16 років тому

    I have that very Gyromite! I bought it JUST because I heard about this. Man I'm so glad to see a new FD! Very educational! I love it as usual!

  • @therealhardrock
    @therealhardrock 14 років тому

    Could you explain to the AVGN why Gyromite says "Robot Gyro" on the title screen?

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @ultrasuperman99 It's only specific games, and only ones released early in the NES life cycle. There are a few ways to tell if a cart has one -- the number of screws and their arrangement, a "Rev-A" on the label, and so forth.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    I think the video pretty well explained it, but to reiterate: they were probably thinking that when they released the Disk System in the US that all future NES cartridge games could also use the Disk System's sound chip -- since it would be attached to the console and never have to be removed. Alas, the system never came out, and the design decision made the sound expansion option unusable.

  • @therealhardrock
    @therealhardrock 15 років тому

    How did you make the TV go up and down with you anyway?

  • @homestar92
    @homestar92 12 років тому +1

    Using a hacksaw, I fashioned myself a Gyromite-based Famicom adapter that works in the Toaster NES.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    I've not tried the Game Genie solution, so I can't speak to it.
    Looking at the console from the front inside of the cartridge slot you will see two bit of plastic jutting out which fit into notches in the back of the cartridge. Remove these tabs with needle-nose pliers, some cutting tool, or something. Just make sure they're all gone.
    Super Famicom cartridges don't have the notches, but once the obstruction is gone they slip into the slot and play just fine.

  • @spidermcgavenport8767
    @spidermcgavenport8767 6 років тому

    Only issues I've found for Nes compatibility is the toploader doesn't play Tengen Gauntlet etc. Lockout chip won't work after Atari stole the patents of the lockout chip to bypass that implementation. But just completely copied the code instead of reverse engineering the code on lockout chips.

  • @pepsiru1es92
    @pepsiru1es92 16 років тому

    ive heard of stack up, duck hunt and hogan's alley possibly having them. i found one in gyromite

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    No worries.
    The first video is called "Last Supper". There are like seven more after that, and they're all video responses to each other so they shouldn't be hard to find.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @mexicanwaluigi The picture was from inside a Famicom cartridge. I don't have a US one handy to compare, but it didn't have the chip, thanks to the aforementioned wiring. Someone would have to rig up a decent adapter that sent a Famicom cart's sound expansion pins to the NES expansion port, and then another one to wire up the expansion port input to the expansion pins leading into the main NES hardware. It'd be a purely academic exercise, though; you might as well just get a Famicom!

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    Thanks!
    Phil's around somewhere. I'm going to try to get him involved in more Famicom Dojo stuff if I can manage it. I know Vinnk wants to do a bit on the Famicom Robot (Japanese ROB), so a cameo by Phil would be more than appropriate!

  • @johneymute
    @johneymute 16 років тому

    that,s interresting, that 10 more pins on nes cartrides were added for direct connection witn the expension port on the bottum from the nes,it may could even use the external soundpins that way.since the external soundpins were moved to the expansion port,but despite it was sated that no nes games could make use of it,unlike famicom games,why???

  • @slyther2
    @slyther2 14 років тому

    what I want to know is how I can open a famicom cartridge as I don't think there are any screws on them?

  • @Ace9921
    @Ace9921 16 років тому

    Hey, how's this for the new name to replace Dojo Mailbag: The Dojo Q & A?

  • @AldenMoellerInc
    @AldenMoellerInc 7 років тому +1

    how do you get the footage for the scenes when the consoles talk?

    • @SeanOrange
      @SeanOrange  6 років тому +2

      Usually I just give them a bottle of sake, and I can’t get them to shut up!

  • @therealhardrock
    @therealhardrock 16 років тому

    Do you know of any dongles that can make Famicom games work on the NES without dissecting a cartridge?

  • @GeniusRKO39
    @GeniusRKO39 13 років тому +1

    @SeanOrange Does famicom boards really
    work on famicom without the case?
    (as shown in this video)
    reply

  • @mexicanwaluigi
    @mexicanwaluigi 14 років тому

    @SeanOrange yeah i was wondering the same thing if they were planning an add-on like a fm sound unit like sega did with the sega mark iii. I mean nintendo's not really shy when it comes to add-ons but there were a lot of third party mmc's so I can kinda see where it would get very messy and would've probably required a lot of reprogram in the games.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    It's the Famicom Mini version of Zelda II -- I'd used the clip before in the Battery Backup episode. I probably should have used a new clip, but I was feeling lazy. :p

  • @therealhardrock
    @therealhardrock 13 років тому

    Many (in fact most) NES games are missing 4 pins on each side. Why is that?

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @slyther2 It's not really possible without snapping the tabs that hold the cartridge together. I imagine that Nintendo has (or had) a special tool to do that, but they're really not designed to ever come apart again.

  • @mexicanwaluigi
    @mexicanwaluigi 14 років тому

    5:50 forgive me if someone already mentioned this and I may be wrong, if you plug in a famicom game that has a mmc for sound you probably won't hear the enhancement because of the wiring, however American NES titles did support sound enhancements (I don't believe it is "FM synthesis") such as Nintendo's own line of MMC chips. Your picture of the inside of a castlevania 3 game shows a third party MMC, Nintendo banned third party chips in American titles.

  • @smerk429
    @smerk429 5 років тому

    HI.
    THANK U FOR UR HARD WORK.
    ARE THERE ANY
    3 SCREW NES GAMES THAT
    HAVE A
    FAMICOM CARTRIDGE ADAPTER
    IN THEM?
    MAYBE SUCH AS THE
    COMMON 5'S LIKE THE
    2 DONKEY KONG CARTS?
    THANX
    ANYBODY KNOWLEDGABLE PLEASE REPLY SOON.

  • @Rakshasa1986
    @Rakshasa1986 14 років тому

    @slyther2 I wouldn't recomment that you open your cartridge since cartridges are no longer being manufactured (except for DS).

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    :O
    Denshimeiru. I am so dense!
    That has a nice ring to it.

  • @ploomit
    @ploomit 16 років тому

    Hey I just saw your video of you and vinnk in japan on the powet forums. Are you like living there or is it like a trip.

  • @videogameobsession
    @videogameobsession 15 років тому

    Great job on this video. :) Very professionally done and thoroughly entertaining from beginning to end. I have seen some episodes in the past, but for one reason or another I forgot to subscribe.. Not this time! SUBSCRIBED + ***** RATING!
    I love the music in Gyromite, as well as most "Black Box" games. They were able to take such a limited sound system and create unforgettable tunes.
    Now that I have completed my boxed BB collection, I really want to start collecting Famicom stuff. Any tips?

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @MrHossCartwright No, right. They are region-free with respect to NTSC versions, although there's still the issue of the plastic in the way. That is easily removed with the proper screwdriver. Or a drummel.

  • @vegetafan9922
    @vegetafan9922 5 років тому +1

    "Before CDs were used, Cartridges were the defacto standard for video game consoles"
    Nintendo Switch:"Oh, Ye of little faith."

  • @therealhardrock
    @therealhardrock 16 років тому

    The size of the circuit boards clearly shows that the cartridges are much larger than they need to be.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  11 років тому

    Theoretically, although the FM Synthesis sound won't work. It's something we want to try out.

  • @therealhardrock
    @therealhardrock 16 років тому

    Here's another interesting note: using a Game Genie bends the pin connectors in the NES to make it work without puhsing it down, so much so that after it's been there for a long time, games no longer work normally and have to be used with the Game Genie. I've come up with an interesting way of taking cartridges in and out without removing the game genie, thus eliminating the need to push the games down and effectively making the game genie a permanent part of the system.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    Alrighty, voice of authority. This will make a great mailbag!

  • @jonathannintendonerd
    @jonathannintendonerd 14 років тому

    @SeanOrange Yeah thanks for the info I was curios as to why they dropped support for third party chips, and why Nintendo's MMC's were very limited in sound. Oh and I think there were at least two chips that supported FM Synthesis Konami's VRC7 and I think Sunsoft's FME-7. I swear the VRC7 sounds like a 16bit system.

  • @krich451
    @krich451 12 років тому +1

    i like the bushido blade sound effects

  • @shMouse
    @shMouse 16 років тому

    I love that Famicom and Nes, always makes me laugh.
    Do they have their own show ?

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    The NES and Famicom adapters aren't quite rated the same. I was able to use a Famicom adapter on an NES and vice versa, but I suspect that some damage may occur over time. I really couldn't say for sure, though. If you can find an NES adapter, that might work for a while at least.

  • @reyesh
    @reyesh 16 років тому

    another good episode, thanks for making them.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @Riddler95 You could do it with a toploader (aka the NES 2), but 1) you'd need a converter for the pins, and 2) due to the design, anything that uses the extra sound channels will be inaudible. Technically the NES has the same sound expansion cababilities as the Famicom, but due to the pin design it would take some fancy soldering from the cart (or RAM cartridge) to route the signal to the correct place.
    So: yes, but there'd be no point other than academic. Get a Famicom!

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  13 років тому

    @GeniusRKO39 Yeah, there's no reason why it wouldn't. The case is just plastic, nonconducting, and doesn't really serve a function (for the game itself, anyway) other than to protect the board from the wear and tear of inserting and removing it over and over. Imagine what would happen over time if dust, fingerprints, and who knows what else (a soda spill? cigarette smoke?) were allowed to cake onto the board!

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  13 років тому

    @crazedgunmanvideo I have. I'll even send you a video of what spurred the change! ;)

  • @Lilithe
    @Lilithe 7 років тому

    Any idea if the original Dragon Quest used a sound chip? I bought one of those portable FC clones and the sound is... quite odd. :D
    v=e0v4WnebROg

  • @slyther2
    @slyther2 14 років тому

    what I want to know is how do I open the cartridge?

  • @skyrunner14
    @skyrunner14 16 років тому +1

    Yay! My Famicom finally came in today! It's beside me now. Too bad I have no games. :-(

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @MrHossCartwright I'm not an electrical engineer, but if the pins on the cart are different than in the US or Japan it could have made a circuit somewhere it shouldn't have, and POOF! I don't know if that's something that typically happens with NTSC/PAL cross-compatibility, or if there was some other mitigating factor in this case.

  • @mrmimeisfunny
    @mrmimeisfunny 11 років тому

    if you plug a gyromite adapter into the famicom disk system cable
    will it work on an NES 2? (i doubt it will work on an NES 001 because it won't reach the pins)

  • @james42519
    @james42519 8 років тому +1

    wish you would break the plastic off the nes expansion port already. be nice to actually show it.

    • @SeanOrange
      @SeanOrange  6 років тому

      I should get another NES to do that; this one prefers to remain “uncut”.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    Heck, the size of the famicom cartridges should be proof enough of that.
    The size has more to do with the design of the "zero-force" slot.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @Dant2142 Except the '80s Nintendo DID totally go for it with the Famicom Disk System. The '90s Nintendo went for it in the form of developing the (failed) CD-ROM add-on, the Satellaview for SNES, and the 64DD for the N64. None of those every made it state-side, but we did finally see some add-ons here in the '00s with the broadband adapter and Game Boy Player for the GameCube. Nintendo isn't add-on adverse, but they do tend to quickly lose faith in them after release.

  • @petroklaxis
    @petroklaxis 6 років тому +1

    ok...you need to cover the color tv-game systems... like ASAP.

    • @SeanOrange
      @SeanOrange  6 років тому

      TNTJones We accept donations of old consoles and games! ;)

  • @armankordi
    @armankordi 12 років тому +1

    The super FX Chip on SNES Overclocks the SNES's 16 bit Processor.

  • @729MendicantTide
    @729MendicantTide 9 років тому

    Were you using an actual ROB for the intro?

    • @hatsuneblacktrousers
      @hatsuneblacktrousers 9 років тому

      It is either rob or famicom robot

    • @hatsuneblacktrousers
      @hatsuneblacktrousers 9 років тому

      +Poison Virus Joe well if he used it than it is either that

    • @SeanOrange
      @SeanOrange  8 років тому

      Nope, just used the controller manually. Even not having a ROB, the nice thing about Gyromite is that it's still playable.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @squidgibin In theory. I haven't had occasion to try it, and I'm not sure why you'd want to: it's much easier to locate a Famicom or Twin.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  12 років тому +1

    "Look like"? That Famicom is a highly-trained (and low-paid) actor! XD
    Trade secret. :P

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    Adventure Island is one of the greatest games ever made.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @slyther2 It requires a little bit of solder and a lot of patience. I don't really recommend it -- might as well just get a new one! The moment you disconnect the old battery, all the saves are lost anyway.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  15 років тому +1

    Through the magic of television. Ho-HO!

  • @ploomit
    @ploomit 16 років тому

    Can you tell me the name of the video and I feel kind of stupid I pronounced your name wrong in my video response

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @mexicanwaluigi Agreed, although I kinda think I see where they were going with it. Why make developers put their sound chips on carts when they could all interface with something in the expansion port -- but it the (never-developed) US version of the Disk System, or some other cheap-ish add-on companies like Konami could have produced? I think they were also surprised by how fast the technology moved, and just never implemented the other part of their State-side plan.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    You can check the labels for differences, or the center of balance. There are ways, but I don't really know for sure. Google it! :p

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  15 років тому

    Well, yeah, I mean that's how the cartridge works all the time anyway. The adapter isn't exactly designed to work with a Famicom cart though -- you'd have to take the chipset out of the plastic case, and that's not easy to do without breaking off tabs and ensuring it'll never to back together again.
    There are after-market devices for that sort of thing. All unlicensed, of course. But why do that when you can just play it on a Famicom? The NES doesn't have the full capabilities anyway.

  • @skyrunner14
    @skyrunner14 16 років тому

    Now THIS is more like it. Keep the show like this from now on. ...Please?

  • @sonichuizcool7445
    @sonichuizcool7445 6 років тому

    somone from ninentdo knows why these adapters ended up in the games. as a child I opened my Super mario one cart and it had one. I remember being perplexed for weeks why it was that way.

  • @Seafoamgaming
    @Seafoamgaming 7 років тому +1

    I remember watching this in 2012 and finding the channel that way. Bought a $30 Gyromite with the converter inside and tried to play JPN FINAL FANTASY II on my NES. It worked fine but I was only able to make it half-way through the game before enemies OHKO'd me (and the lack of save points drove me insane). Then both the game and converter were left at my Aunt's ex's place when they broke up so I've been trying to get them back since 2014 to no avail. D: One day I'll get them back... So i can import famicom games. I'll stick to the PSONE Version of FF2 since I'm closer to beating that.

    • @SeanOrange
      @SeanOrange  6 років тому

      If you can make it to a trade show sometime, or an expo like Midwest Gaming Classic, you can usually pick one up for the right price! That’s how I got my copies of Hogan’s Alley and, uh, I forget what else. I was just lucky with my copy of Gyromite - it was the same one I had sinceI was a kid.

  • @ploomit
    @ploomit 16 років тому

    was that kid icarus for the gba the region game

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  13 років тому

    @DjStiv3 Feel free to turn them off. ;)
    Actually, I'm not sure we need them any more. We've had them up for a few years now, and now that there's commentary on the DVD I'm not sure they should be here as well.

  • @linkthewarrior
    @linkthewarrior 16 років тому

    Yay it's back!

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  15 років тому

    Awesome! Thanks so much. I hope you're looking forward to Season 2, and checking out the Denshimail segments in the mean time.
    There's a thread for collecting Famicom games over at RisingStuff(dot)com in the Famicom Dojo section -- I highly recommend checking it out! ;)
    First tip: get a Famicom! The debate rages one as to whether buying the standalone Famicom and Disk System is better than the Twin. It partly depends on how you feel about Coax versus RCA.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    95 if it's set to channel 1, 96 if it's set to channel 2.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  16 років тому

    It's there. I just have to approve them manually, and I was away from INTERNET all weekend.

  • @TBustah
    @TBustah 11 років тому

    1:41
    Actually, the Super Joy III doesn't have games built in.
    As mentioned, it's a knock off. Specifically, it's a Famicom knock off that comes with a buttload of games on one cartridge, but it uses a standard 60 pin Famicom connector, so it will also play real Famicom carts (I know because I own one, you insert them into the bottom of that fake N64 controller). So, while it does come PACKAGED with games, it's no less of a cartridge-based system than the NES or SNES, which both also came packaged with a cartridge or two.

    • @superpan218
      @superpan218 10 років тому

      Famicom "Cartridge slot" is the preferred term.

    • @TBustah
      @TBustah 8 років тому

      No, I was talking about the pin connector, the part INSIDE of the slot that actually connects the game board to the console's board. You've probably heard about how people sometimes have to replace the 72 pin connector in the NES, which tends to get bent or dirty. They even allude to them at 4:20 in this video.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  12 років тому

    Yup, heard that before. Zach Braff too. Heck, I make reference to both in the WTF Zach Braff video! Here, I'll send it to you...

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  15 років тому

    Ding ding ding!
    Although it would be much easier on a toploader.

  • @mexicanwaluigi
    @mexicanwaluigi 14 років тому

    @mexicanwaluigi My guess is that Nintendo had more control over games released in America and screwed us out of third party mmc chips, either to force companies into paying for the use of their chips (which probably led to most saying "meh just release it with out sound enhancements who will know the dif?") or maybe it was so they could say Nintendo's first party games sound better than all the others. I could be totally wrong though and it may just be the 74 pin to 60 pin conversion broke it.

  • @SeanOrange
    @SeanOrange  14 років тому

    @goodolarchie Hey, I did it in 2008, so it's not too late for any of us!

  • @mrmimeisfunny
    @mrmimeisfunny 11 років тому

    wow,
    i thought it used strings and stop motion