SuperEyepatchWolf's Arguments Could Use Some Work...
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- In this video I am going to try to explain why SuperEyepatchWolf's Chainsaw Man review didn't impress me. The majority of the video will try to cover why I think the arguments SuperEyepatchWolf makes feel lost or meaningless.
If anyone else would like to discuss the things I brought up in the video feel free to discuss them in the comments, because I haven't seen this discussed anywhere else.
I think that entire idea of "a Measurement" that we judge art by is flawed to begin with, as it boils art down into argumentetive points of aspects that are hard to quantify, instead of focusing on the core aspect of it, which is how it made you feel and how effective it was at conveying that to you, something which I believe Eyepatch Wolf agrees with
This why he is focusing on how aspects of Chainsaw Man make him feel, because it is in his view the only aspect that is important
for another example, his opinion of the Movie Skinamarink from his Holiday 2022 video, he doesn't talk about aspects like acting or writing, because it wasn't important to him, as the other elements of the work outweigh it, because of the emotional impact these specific elements had that are hard to quantify and may only work for him, so creating an argument where he would have to prove if a scene is scary would already be futile, since many might not find it scary or think it would change their general opinion on it
He does not follow the Idea of "establish point, establish measurement, provide example" because what does it help? He does not talk about easily provable aspects like "did I enjoy 80% of time?", it's the overall emotional value of a work
In that way, he does not argue why Chainsaw Man is a Masterpiece, he only talks about why he thinks Chainsaw Man is a masterpiece, it is less about him convincing others about it, but more about him voicing his opinion and feelings on CSM, and maybe you agree with him or see new aspects through him
If you don't agree with his way of thinking thats fine, he is not a reviewer that says if thing is good, and if yes is it better then other things, just someone voicing his opinions on the internet about art
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! For your first point, could you give me an example? (your point being that using a measure simplifies the work into something hard to quantify) You claim that using a measure and focusing on the core aspect of the work are exclusive, but I don't see why that would be the case.
I was planning on refuting your points, but I think I have a better way of saying this; Evidence can be dismissed with counter-evidence of equal strength. If the point of SEW's video was just to say how he feels, I can dismiss that by saying how I feel. In addition, if SEW wanted to convey the idea that these are purely his thoughts that say nothing about the work from an objective perspective, I think he did a bad job of communicating that. To further this point, let me ask you a question: What do you think SEW was trying to communicate by titling his video "Chainsaw Man is a God Damn Masterpiece" And why do you think he decided to post that to the internet? What was he trying to achieve?
Overall, none of what you said refutes what I tried to say in the video. In fact, it seems like you agree with my main point; SEW's argument is bad. You've made excuses for why SEW's argument is bad, but those excuses don't change anything about SEW's argument. Therefore, I think my video is still valid.
@@whimsnum
How do you "measure" goodness, exactly? Like, grams, liters? Or.... 😂
Even now you're trying to assert that "masterpiece" is an objective qualification in the same way as, say, an animal being in the class Mammalia. Surely, you've succeeded where millions of academics across history have failed and outlined a reliable, consistent, objective measurement for good art!
@@DaDandyman So what is your point? That I should give up on trying? That because others have failed I shouldn't even bother? That mindset is, in my opinion, one of the most frustrating things I have commonly hear when creating these videos. I won't even get into the whole 'Everything is subjective,' argument, because I think the other point you made is much more telling. If the thing I'm doing is wrong, prove it. I'm not going to stop trying because I might end up being wrong, that's honestly such a toxic and stupid mentality. ALSO, watch the BADIC video I made if you want the specifics on how I rate shows. Although I didn't use the BADIC system in this video, it does answer you first question. (at least in terms of how I measure goodness for stories)
@@whimsnum
I don't think everything is subjective. What I do recognize is that qualities such as "good" and "bad" have been primary examples of *subjective* perspectives since humans have developed analysis of logic which distinguish objectivity and subjectivity.
Quality of art is in fact a matter of taste. That doesn't mean there's no point in criticizing or analyzing it-but what it does mean is that the way you go about appraising it or analyzing it is markedly different from how you would, say, the classification of a mammal.
With issues of science, for example, when debating whether a platypus is a mammal or not there are reasonable assumptions that both parties of an argument agree on.
1. That Mammals are a class of animal which consists of milk-producing, warm-blooded vertebrates
Or
2. That peer-reviewed literature qualifying a mammal is to be respected.
Someone who disagrees with both of these assumptions is-well-simply wrong. They've left the realm of even trying to debate science, which is rooted in empiricism and peer-reviewed research.
On your model of rating media:
1. You made it up.
2. There is an absence of peer reviewed literature backing up the effectiveness of your model.
3. There is an abundance of literature, specifically analyzing logic and argumentation, that specifically disputes that such a model can exist.
Why would anyone agree to the assumption that your model is an effective way to analyze media? It evidently hasn't proven effective.
Cynic that I am, I think it's mainly because you want to smuggle controversial media opinions (like that the critically-acclaimed manga series, Chainsaw Man, is bad) through "objectivity" as a vehicle to make your perspective seem more profound than it is.
@@DaDandyman First of all, thank you for presenting an argument. Second of all, your formatting is very nice.
Now on to the actual arguments. I'm kind of having a hard time addressing it, because you don't connect why each piece of information is relevant to the next, so I'm just kind of left with many points that don't form into a clear argument. Maybe you can clear it up in another response.
To show what I mean, how does the example of an animal being a mammal or not connect to the argument made in the video above? Are you suggesting that I am basing my arguments in empiricism and/or peer-reviewed research? If so, that is not the route I'm taking with my argumentation. While yes, I do claim the results are objective, that is only when using the subjective criteria I lay out in the BADIC video. Point being, unless you connect how either empiricism or peer-reviewed studies (or some other interpretation of the analogy) applies to my video, your point can be dismissed.
The above applies to the second half of your comment too. How does the fact that [I made up the criteria] or that [there lacks peer reviewed evidence] to support my points discount my video? (it doesn't imo) The third point would clearly be relevant, if there was [evidence that proves my model can't generate objective results], but you didn't provide said studies, so I can dismiss them just as easily as you can assert they exist.
Hopefully that was all clear!
p.s. For your last sentence I think you may be accidentally slipping into a fallacy. It doesn't matter how many people believe my method is effective, it is completely possible everyone else is just wrong.
not everyone is as smart or mindful to take that into account
tbh i dont even care about chainsaw man or the other guy at all, came from the victoria video actually haha, but your disciplined methodology is great so i stayed
Thanks a lot man!
thats kind of a lot of SEWs and other YTs anime-analysis. boils down to "i like it, so its great". might not mean the statement is wrong per se, its just...well...not a real argument.
ye... I have a scrapped video that argues that most (big) anime 'reviews' are actually just summary in disguise. That, or arguments that, as you said, aren't really arguments. I think this is because videos that go really in depth on an argument don't have that same kind of broad appeal. A summary or unsupported opinion can be understood by anyone, after all.
jacob gellers cooler
I have to be honest with you, I disagree that he likes Chainsaw Man because I think Chainsaw Man is a horrible show. When he released this video, I was puzzled, because he said it was a masterpiece, which it is furthest from that. It would have been fine if he simply just said it's good because everyone is entitled to an opinion, but this is more like this is a masterpiece to him in a subjective lens and this show to me is horrible so I was confused from the titling and didn't even give the video a chance because of it. Chainsaw man is just another basic show where the protagonists sets out on a goal but doesn't quite get what he set out for and instead gets something else that he values instead due to the "experiences" he's had leading up to it. Seems this is the theme of most stories nowadays because it allows for the most room for subjectivity. Anyone can have a perspective on something, so to me, it seems like a lazy way out an I just take it as mindless filler entertainment with the show not actually really having a point. Often times, people carry a story or points within a show when really the show is about...nothing in particular. (In terms of a grander scheme.)
As for this video you've made I will say that not everything is objective and not everything is subjective. You can say something is good because you like it, but saying something is good because you say it IS good is an objective statement, which your video pointed out, and I agree with your sentiment in the video. People should choose their wording better and just say they like something because they like it and not make statements about it being good. I also agree with what you said at the end and I think it's the point you should have lead in with because this is important across not only all subjective circumstances, but objective circumstances as well. Too many people do not care how to word themselves anymore, but we as people are naturally a communicative species, so it DOES matter, no matter how much people say it doesn't. If we are all interpenetrating every little thing in our own way, then we are all living in our own individual realities, and then we wonder why we are so separated.
Ramble end. Thanks for reading.