SIMPLE Se-Ni Definition: INSTINCTIVE GENERALIZATION | Extraverted Sensing & Introverted Intuition
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2022
- ENFP Kyle and I talk about the Ni-Se tandem process in more depth.
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Hi there! I'm Joyce, a certified MBTI® Master Practitioner, Enneagram Coach, Jungian Typology Expert, Master NLP Practitioner, and Gallup® CliftonStrengths Coach.
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Towards the end you guys mentioned SPs being more straightforward and to the point with language. In contrast, I have been watching a lot of INFJs, and when illustrating a concept, they tend to give a super long background intro for context, before finally getting at the idea they are highlighting at the end. There is so much more information the listener has to hold onto before understanding the packaged concept presented. And even after the idea is presented, the listener has to dig more by asking clarifying questions or else risk missing the point (a lot of times I actually don’t catch things INJs are trying to convey as a non-NJ) Oops, Ne-tangent comment here!
As an ENFP I feel so called out when you said, "give a super long background intro for context" 🤣🤣. I think because our thoughts can be so abstract and we're aware of that we want to help people catch up.
@@fattysl26 Ah, interesting. I actually don’t notice it in ENFPs as an INFP myself… maybe it is slightly different. Like with INFJs, to me it feels almost linear. I myself kind of jump back and forth and in every which direction, while trying to get back to the main topic. I actually find it super amusing when I can circle back to the beginning with a randomly related comment. I know I use a lot of examples from my personal experiences to illustrate a point, especially when talking type. I remember a lot of random things that people say or do that I think can possibly be tied to their type. With writing, Ne-users seem way more long winded than NJs though. Ni writing seems more condensed and dense in terms of difficulty in interpreting than Ne.
@@fattysl26 I will say about people having to catch up… I find when listening to Kyle in some of these videos, he does go super fast, even for myself… and he is often bringing things in from many directions and wanting to change gears… like, my multitrack mind does not run nearly as fast! And I don’t have as many channels to simultaneously work with… But I can also overwhelm people in my own way with all of my continuous “I’m wondering if….” questions of many many many topics that keep springing up whenever I come across something that triggers off a new hypothesis.
@@jbodhi15 with Ne it can be difficult knowing how to condense things down because we can take in so much information and ideas. I've learned when writing to first identify what the key points are and then get going. If I don't do that I don't know where to start or just end up rambling.
@@jbodhi15 I think because as an ENFP I'm used to jumping from idea to idea, thought to thought myself, he was easy to follow. As long as there's a connection between the points or ideas he has I can follow.
Wow, the clarity of the definitions and explanations here is next-level. So helpful!
Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful!
I've spent a LOT of time working with SP's in particular; I'm married to an ISTP who took a while to figure out her best fit type because Se stereotypes are so unhelpful for many SP's - especially those who don't identify as athletes or mechanics! Also a ton of one on one interviews & typing sessions & workshop conversations with Se users, and countless hours discussing with my mentor, Melissa Harris, who has worked through literally thousands of profiles.
Understanding Se/Ni more has *really* improved my life... I'm surrounded by them (I have 3 older siblings that are different kinds of SP's, and my wife's family has 3 SP's as well!!)
~Kyle
Living in advance describes Ni perfectly, lol.
Great stuff. I think I better understand Ni parent now, in terms of how much I spend deliberating what something would “mean” for my life trajectory which is always on my mind esp for big decisions. And it’s a comfortable meandering place, one that requires me zoning out after experiencing the thing I want to think about.
It’s like what people do in art museums but what I’ll do after say working out or spending time in an experience. And it now makes sense why I’ll watch something over and over again almost as if to glean something from it. Some special message if I watch it for the Nth time.
11:55 I agree literally every personality is super cool and has a lot of interesting things, SJs and SPs are very underrated
Also INFPs are looked down upon sometimes and very characterized
9:24 When I - an ISTP - encounter a situation where I intuitively know that something just does(n't) make sense I usually can work backwards or figure it out another way with my Ti if I do need or want to know the actual reasons.
Often the information is just out of sight in the back of my mind but easy to grab, for example when I reasoned about something similar before and my brain just took a shortcut. Like when you're simply applying a mathematical formula without first deriving it each time. But if you need the derivation you can just do it on the fly or grab the respective textbook.
Only in the rare occasion where I don't have that information (or don't know that or where I have it) would I have to deduce the whole chain of reasoning from the ground up. But those insights are usually intriguing enough that I'm willing to spend the necessary time and effort. Actually I don't get a choice, it just happens automatically.
The short-term predictive thing is especially interesting to me. I've often doubted / been confused and thought I must be Ni-dom because of situations where I do that. Comparatively, when I predict looong into the future, I'd characterize it as almost child-like in its view of things. Like I'm just latching onto a simplistic image of where I will end up and I'm not really analyzing the trajectory as a whole. I'm just kind of going "this is how I am now / have been, so I'm doomed" (or if it's a hopeful view, "this is how I am now / have been, so I have it made"). And then I actually get there and it's like, oh right, reality is a little more complicated than I was making it out to be and there are a lot of things coming into being and going out of being that I'm not taking into account at all. This aspect of my relationship with the future makes me think Se-dom / Ni inferior, where other factors make me doubt. Anyway, I appreciate the insights into the Se-Ni / Ni-Se axis. I feel like it adds some depth to the SP types especially, that is missing in a lot of conversation about them.
One of the things which has often bothered me about descriptions of Se, especially in comparison to descriptions of Ne is that I have often seen Ne described as making up many potential ideas to explore based on a single Si data point (sensing is often mentioned as feeding into intuition in general, but you far more rarely see the reverse), so shouldn't Se be doing something similar with Ni concepts? Shouldn't the pairs of perceiving functions be mirroring each other? My tertiary Ni wanted to see a nice pattern where every aspect of one is mirrored by the other, and it bothered me that this part seemed to be missing.
Except actually it is there if you look carefully. No one ever phrases it like that though.
It relates to the high Se ability to react in the moment.
I think the reaction has to work something like this:
1. Se takes in a load of details about the current situation
2. Se throws these details at Ni and asks 'What is this?'
3. Ni presents a likely-applicable concept
4. Se takes the concept and MAKES UP sets of concrete details on the spot, all of which fit the concept Ni has presented - note that these details are not truly in the real world yet, but are POTENTIAL specific actions to take in the real world (the only hint of this idea you might see from a lot of function/type descriptions is of dominant Ni/inferior Se struggling with the details of how they will reach their dreams - these details are always just potentials, and there are multiple ways which could work)
5. Judging function determines which of these sets of actions is better, either after exploring as many sets of actions as possible and seeing the results (ESxP), or as a filter to narrow down one set of actions to take (ISxP)
TL;DR: Se is generating many potential courses of action based on a single Ni idea.
I'm a software developer, so I often think of Ne as a 'random idea generator', seeded by Si, so the equivalent for Se would be a 'random action generator', seeded by Ni. Much as an INxP throws away the random ideas which make less sense/are less important without voicing them, or even overly considering them, the ISxP throws away the random actions which make less sense/are less important without doing them. The ESxP feels the need to actually explore their actions before throwing them away (similar to the ENxP with their ideas).
This would be a feature of Se I (as an ISTP) relate far more to, often catching myself thinking, 'What if I do this random thing? No that's stupid.'
Thank you so much for the explanation💛 It make sense. As an esfp I can plan a party really well with my SE-TE, but ask where I will be in 5 years and I will just don’t know and I will probably get a bit (a lot) anxious.
Kyle has good insights on the relationship between Se and Ni.
This guy literally breaks this down so in-depth and perfect.
Great explanations from Joyce and Kyle. Does anyone else smell a buddy cop sitcom on the way?
Oh gosh, I had the same math teacher for three years in hs and he said he loved grading my tests backwards since I would get the difficult questions correct and show like three ways to get there, but couldn’t do simple things like the first two questions. It baffled him haha. But yeah I disliked things like algebra but loved trig calc and Diffy Q I just hate logic but love analytics. I really like the explanation of it being generalizations and yes thank you for explaining the intuitive vs sensors differently because I know A Lot of Intuitives and yes literal geniuses but have you ever driven on the roads and highways in Minneapolis/ St. Paul, it’s like an intuitive had a dream, got drunk, sent their plans for city planning in and they literally built them. Like, fabulous ideas like driving clovers came out of it but have you ever tried driving on them … so tight, so unusable haha. Or the zipper merge, also a great way to crash especially in snow, but when everyone is intuitive it works beautifully, when the Intuitives don’t chat out their reasoning behind the merge… crash city. Or my friend is a teacher in Minneapolis St. Paul… she says they try new theories of education like almost every year and they are great but they never get to see the end results since they ship out the research and just keep changing. Or Mayo Clinic I love but have you ever tried to have a convo with the docs I love them they are my literal family. But “Round and Around and Around we go, listen to the music on the stereo and we turn it up turn it up slow oh..ohhhhhhhhhhhh….oh wahooooo oh…. Ohhhh… turn it up turn it up slow….. I ain’t looking for a broken heaaaaart, I’m just looking for a brand new start and we turn it up turn it up slow.”- OAR for my ESFP and ESTPs… it’s not going to be that different this time….people and places aren’t that different…. Nothing but love for my EXxP family 💕💕👍🏼😜🤓. Why am I picking on the twin cities and intuitive doms because I’m an ENFP who looooves the twin cities and lived there but it’s one of then most intuitive dom centers in the world and I love it, but man did it make me want to solve concrete problems every once and a while, sensors aren’t dumb easy people they get stuff done and know what’s actually happening we would not exist without them and iq is not directly related to type thank God haha.
Hmm...I find that when making conversation I tend to reply to both the matter at hand and possible future questions the person my have. So you might say one thing that requires a single response and I might give 3. On a good day.
“Living in it in advance”. Wow yes
I've found that the child or 3rd function to be very telling when trying to learn just how a function manifests in people, because it sort of lacks a counterbalance function and is therefore purer in a way, more innocent. I first noticed this being an INTP and comparing my experiences with Si with my wife's (ENFJ) and her Se compared to my general lack of it. What I have discovered is that her ability to take in the world is almost everything at once so she's much more aware of what's going on around her at all times but she also struggles to filter out unwanted noise and distractions which can cause her frustration when she needs to concentrate which sort of gets to the Se-Ni dynamic. I on the other hand must internalize the external before I generally notice it. This gives me a telescope or microscope sort of awareness on the world where I can focus on few things very well at the expense of paying attention to everything else, but my focus can quickly get distracted moving from one interest to the other, directed by my Ne which I think gets to the Si/Ne dynamic.
This series with Kyle is really really helpful.
Thanks for ur content joyce
My pleasure 😊
Great explanation!!
Awwww, I hate to ruin the mystique of Magic Eye pictures, but they work by eye alignment. If you slightly cross your eyes, or move the book backwards and forwards, the internal images will align at some point and the picture pops out. Cool illustration though. My mind kept jumping to high intensity 3D video games, where a bunch of sense data is thrown at you at once, and when you're on your game, instinct can break through the chaos and say "jump over there", or "aim for that thing".
Very Ti observation
Se dom = a high-capacity data processor.
Ni is processing data in the background.
One of the commonly-touted tasks of Ni is that it looks for the "meaning" of the patterns, which I couldn't grasp. When I realized that, for me, Ni was determining the "significance" of the patterns, the flashbulb went off. I don't know if this is a Feeling v Thinking distinction, or depends on the position of the function. ??
"All of theses existential questions, true" ! XD Sadly all the questions that no one else think about, and the worse is I found the answers.
Again a great explanation, thank you both.
I am not the best to find my words sometimes, I have the idea, but I can take time to find th best word.
I can be lost with all my thoughts, due to this flexibility.
What is good is when we improve a function we improve the others too, all work together well.
INTROVERTED INTUITION HAS THE HARDEST LIFE!
ESTPs and ISTPs are direct and to the point. ESFPs and ISFPs are not direct and to the point because they love to be informative.