Boost Pedal Before Or After Overdrive? [Gain Staging Basics]
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- Where do you put your boost pedal in relation to overdrive from amps or pedals?
Life too short for long UA-cam videos? Please see the ‘Interesting bits and go-to sections’ information below.
Welcome to the show! A super simple question today, the answers to which serve as a great basic lesson on gain staging. We take a couple of common boost types - one full-range clean boost, and one where we can shape the EQ - and put them both before and after overdrive to see what we can learn.
Where do you like your boost best? Let’s find out…
Enjoy the show!
And please visit That Pedal Shop! www.thatpedalshop.com/
Pedals used in this episode…
• TheGigRig Three2One
www.thegigrig.com/three2one
• Sonic Research ST-300 Turbo Tuner
Australia: bit.ly/2mR1s8c
• Vahlbruch Kaluna High Voltage Tube Drive
www.vahlbruch-fx.com/en/
• Hamstead Ascent
www.hamsteadsoundworks.com/as...
• Thorpy Heavy Water
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3zXIi6N
Australia: bit.ly/3qq9h7W
USA That Pedal Shop: bit.ly/3u68BGF
• Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man
No longer made
Interesting bits and go-to sections…
0:00 Intro playing
1:52 What are we doing today?
2:45 Two basic boost types
3:20 Today’s amps
3:43 Hamstead Ascent clean boost
4:40 Kaluna overdrive, boost after
6:04 Kaluna overdrive, boost before
7:50 Thorpy Heavy Water shaping boost
10:08 Kaluna & Heavy Water before & after
11:50 More and less bass with single coils
14:50 More and less bass with humbuckers
19:15 Conclusions and closing thoughts
Guitars in this episode:
• Fender Custom Shop ’62 Relic Stratocaster - Mick’s video here: • Mick’s New Strat - Fir...
• 1965 Fender Telecaster - No video yet
• Gibson Memphis 1958 ES-335 - Mick’s video here: • Gibson Memphis 1958 ES...
Amps in this episode:
• Marshall 1987X with Zilla Custom 212 / Celestion Alnico Ruby speakers
USA That Pedal Shop: bit.ly/3v3Xazc
• Tone King Imperial MkII with 112 cab / standard speaker
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![Different Approaches To Boost [Underdrive, EQ & Two Amps!]](/img/n.gif)
Equalizer at the end of everything works like a charm for this. You can mess around with tone and whatnot all you like, but for live situations, you can boost your volume easily with it as well!
Yup I always have a vol knob at the end of my chain… buffer and boost
EQ:. The unsung hero of music!
yeah, I presently have a Fender Engager Boost ( just off really waiting looper vol boost use...)second after my Mad Professor Simble, just ordered a Tone City All Spark , maybe just to replace the Fender Boost( I have 2 of them),
the Fender is a fine Pedal, lets see about the Tone City...,at least its supposed to have FETs!😎😎
@@kodykindhart5644 even after delay is what many people miss.
I did find the eq noisy in the chain so i put it alone in the loop and i'm pretty happy with it.
Excellent short format show. It's a nice way to get new viewers in the door and craving more. Soon they'll be all over the tangents and wanting the long shows! Nice content today. Have a great weekend!
Dudes, adding an effects loop to the Heavy Water would make so much sense.
Great idea!
I traded a ts9 for an archer gold klon.
I ran it into a fulltone fat boost and it is incredible tone. This combination makes my univibe pop like never before.
I love how you chose to revisit this topic. It was brilliant, interesting- and contained a few surprises. Killer playing, too, mates.
Great tones/info as per usual, after watching one of the vids going back along, I copied you guys idea of have klony type (silver archer) after drives and it’s staying there for ever! Small bit of gain plenty of level and it always works to get solo sounds to poke through! It works especially well with a superreverb with it running about Halfway’s up! It’s almost like adding a expander to the signal due to the head room in it!
Love the show and looking forward in the future at some stage to go on one of the experience days as that would be a dream come true to meet you guys and try extract even more tone gold info!
Perfect timing - my KoT and Beano Boost arrived this week!
Always on clean boost last in chain to get that sweet spot for the amp. That’s what I do :) also doubles up as a buffer.
Working this out with my guitarist that plays a lp into a twin w jbl
Set amp dark and use some clean boost to add level and sparkle for cleanish tones
Then when gain sounds come on the transient spike isn’t so much “rip yer head off”
Another great video guys, hugly helpfull in building my first rig, doubt I could ever work all this out on my own. Keep up the good work.
Currently watching this in the gym whilst on a cross trainer. The guy next me just gave me a weird look as I realised I'd just said, "Bet Dan mentions the after delay thing" out loud.
This show has so much awesome information
Thanks for providing a channel dedicated to pedals.
Great show! Very informative. I really appreciate that you guys play different style guitars. I don’t play single coil guitars, so it is really helpful for me to hear the humbucker examples.
Did you guys guessed the topic I was gonna request??
Got back to rehearsing with the band, first time trying my drives into a 100 watt amp, I used a boost before my drives but had a hard time leveling the levels of clean and crunch and solo.
Thank you so much, this is a very useful show!!
A real good, clear and very well explained demonstration on boost! Thank you Dan & Mick. Greetings from Hollywood California. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2024!!
Sounds good gentleman! Thank you for the content!
Sweet! I just ordered my second TC Spark (full size) to put at the end. The other Spark is at the beginning being used as an always on EQ/boost/tone shaper. I love that pedal and it’s cheap! Great video BTW!
Yup, I run both. An EP and Keeley Katana before my overdrives and an EQ after. Best of both!
Hey Mick and Dan, cheers from Glasshouse Mountains near Brisbane, Australia!
I have absolutely loved experimenting with gain stacking. Loving my King of Tone Clone with buffer the latest addition to my pedal board into my Suhr Riot Pedal I find it doesn’t! Compress as much as other overdrives like the Kilt. So feeling both inspired and educated by the show. I am getting a better sound out of my existing pedals from watching the show and trying different things. Loving my AC30 and VC30 in stereo. Going to try wet dry wet with the big Sky and Timeline and putting a boost pedal after my overdrives. Thank you so much for all you do to keep us all on our toes. Love your work! God bless you both!
I used to live in Beerwah for many years.
Now in Devonport Tassie
Y'all make the best vids..... thanks so much!!!
Another great video guys so thank you :-)
Always wanted a Dallas Rage Master booster clone and in the past the only pedals I've owned and used was a Dunlop Wah and a Boss BD-2 blues driver from my Strat and SG straight into a Vox ac-4 which sounds quite tame but cranked was brutal (especially for my then neighbours and family) but certainly did a good job as a treble boost with some adjusting even though not a strict treble boost.
It’s hilarious that this video is 20 mins but it really, really does seem like “a short one”. Never change!
You know you're in for a good episode when Dan's memory Man comes out!
A well done video. I'm sure this will pre-empt anyone ever asking any pedal order questions ever again.
😆
Thanks guys! Great, to-the-point episode.
I do miss red, though.
Thanks for another info packed episode gentleman. I've been running a FTT Crunchy Chime booster on my board for the last several weeks. It's a very versatile boost pedal, it can do subtle boost up to, as the name implies, slight crunchy tones. It has excellent EQ (seperate Treble and Bass) control with 2 modes of Bass EQ. I'm running it in front of my Dualist and TomatoTone and it really adds some depth to those presets. But that ThorpyFX Heavy Water is really speaking to me....resistance is futile...resistance is futile...
Cheers
I love this show so much!
This tele into the Kaluna is amazing.
I have really come to the conclusion I want both. Used to use a Mesa Boogie with a (solo) feature which just bumped up master volume "Sweet". Problem is, I like Fender amps with everything in front. So Ge7 at the end of chain for me. Wah, tuna, comp, boost, od, mod , dly, Ge 7.
My good friend is building me an overdrive pedal with a boost circut that can be switched before or after the overdrive with a switch! I cant wait to get it.
I use a double boost pedal in the middle of my drives to make some have two levels of volume and some to add gain stages. My amp also has one at the end of the signal for another volume boost if needed. In a live show this works great.
For me, a TS-9 before all my drive pedals with the gain turned down and volume at 3 o'clock, then an MXR Line Driver at the other end gives me glorious OD options. Nice vid chaps, short and sweet!
Another fantastic video.
I hope someone rants about how “short” it is compared to other videos.
Hey Dan and Mick, just wanted to say that I bought the D&M pedal this week and was incredibly impressed. The option to change the boost/drive order is a nice touch.
Thanks ML! Much appreciated!
@@ThatPedalShow when is the next treble booster pedal video coming?
@@joethrelfall6370try the BBE sonic stomp, put it in the effects loop. It lets you control the highs and lows, cleans up the sound great…
I have a Wampler Tumnus in front of my Prince of Tone and a Bad Bob at the end of the chain before splitting into my wet/dry amps. They work so nicely together. At the very front I have my Sun Face and Gunshot OD. Both of those pedals seem to like to be first in the chain.
Great episode guys👍
I have an Xotic EP Boost (Echoplex circuit emulator/boost) that I put right in front of my RevivalDrive. I only give it a small boost, but I like what it does for the sound. I don't usually use it for distortion, because I can add that right on the RevivalDrive. The EP just pushes a slightly richer midrange into the RD that I love. (I don't ad top end with the internal dip switch, I'm just using the circuit) It also works nice at the end of the entire chain as an overall boost for everything, giving it a lift and a pleasing tonality.
I use it as an always on because I like the tone shape it gives with my strat into a hot rod. Really dependent on other pedals though. Can’t imagine it would be my go to for humbuckers into a less bright amp.
Very interesting as usual !!
I used to run my boost pedals before and after. RC Booster first and an EP Booster last and it was awesome!
Would enjoy hearing you guys add a little here about how the amount of clean headroom available in your amp (which is also part of your gain stage) changes this calculus. Say, a Princeton Reverb vs a Twin Reverb.
The Ascent can also be an anti-boost, which is sometimes useful with high headroom, loud amps. On another subject, I sure hope Neville's gig on Sunday can be recorded, especially the songs Mick sits in on. And unrelated but extremely cool, Brothers Landreth fans will want to hear the title track on Bonnie Raitt's new album. The song really suits her well. ;-)
Both, well kind of. I use a Boss GE-7 Graph EQ cutting low ferquencies and boosting the level between some guitars and the front end of the amp. Also I put a Zoom 70 CDR in the FX loop with a graph eq block to increase volume and boosting mids for soloing, and an analog delay block to make it sound more interesting for soloing.
Thanks Fellas, I hope youre all doing well with the weather there.
Great show! Short and sweet. But I can’t help wanting more…
I know! if I want to get more TPS signal, I’ll just put my Heavy Water after it.
See you Monday (crossing fingers)!
I’ve been putting a jhs haunting mids in front of a echo line roadrunner (transparent drive) recently, it sounds brilliant and is really shapable.
I have a EP boost at the front of the chain and a RC Boost at the end and works good for me
I've been tackling this in real time all week..great timing w this guys! I have clean boost in alot of my pedals but my standalone boosts are the spark mini and the original....lpb-1... different boosts for sure..the lpb1 is much cleaner..the spark has some coloring to it so I feel it matters more where I put it than the he power booster...?
Dan that tele is amazing
I'm running a Keeley Aria at the start of my signal chain, before overdrives, and I'm using the compressor level control as a boost. This gives both more clipping AND volume. Blend & sustain controls at around 9 o'clock.
Boost into drive with the bass up and down would be a really interesting thing to demonstrate with the bass and drums some time, if you haven't already done so.
Tumnus Deluxe set pretty clean with three band EQ at the end of the drives. Makes everything sound great, and always cut. But the best tone piece in this show has to be that MEMORY MAN. wow. I also love a clean boost after the delay and reverb! sounds so good.
if you put a boost into a low gain overdrive with a lot of headrom, it doesnt really get more gain....not in my experience. would love to see you explore cleanish overdrive to a little hair with the boost
Forget ye not the venerable TC Spark which has bass and treble controls plus a mid kick switch; awesome at the end of the chain for solos and cheap as chips. I only wish Dan and Mick were around 30 years ago when this awesome resource would have saved me a lot of money in experimentation. Sterling work, chaps!
That's exactly what I do, it works!
I've been running a Rowin Dumbler into the D&M Drive, then the MXR Carbon Copy delay, then ABY into two Boss Katana 50s (Mk1 and Mk2) with reverbs and masters cranked. It's an odd mix, maybe, but holy moly it's glorious.
This video was fascinating, great work gents!
Do you use the Dumbler as a boost ?
@@eoinjennings519 Yeah, I have it on there for when the D&M isn't on, clean boost. It's a great bit of kit for so cheap. I think I paid about $40 CAD.
@@astewart9410 I have one so I can give it a try in this mode
@@eoinjennings519 Awesome! This video now has me thinking I might try it after the D&M as well, see how that goes. But I love it before the D&M too. Happy playing to you!
15:41 was the holiest sound I've ever heard! 💙
Good job.
Ok, I see I need to experiment with boosters in conjunction with overdrive/ distortion pedals more😄
My favorite booster is the Clean Boost setting on the Elektron Analog Drive which has a great EQ with semiparametric mids.
Thanks Guys for another grate Vid ,I used a Boss GE7 to Boost my EH Muff ,I think it sounded better before the Muff can't remember ,
Also it made the MXR Fullbore sound way better than it did stand alone , I did it because I was trying to get that Doom Sludge sound and the GE7 with the MXR did the trick . Im sure some Extreme Metal Genres used the GE7 in a similar way , although I might be wrong im sure I will be corrected at some point , everything starts to get hazy for me when I think back.
Excellent demonstration of boost. I like my Nobels ODR-1, but found it a touch lackluster in the upper mids and couldn't fix it with the Spectrum control. So, I put a Boss GE-7 in front of it and ever so gently boosted the upper mids while also pulling the lower mids down a hair. Problem solved. :-)
Perfect!
Amazing! Have a look at the Premier Guitar Tom Bukovac rig rundown. He does something very similar! And he's a genius....
So ODR-1 into the GE-7 ?
@@pauldavid2407 think he uses ge7 at the end of the chain
@@pauldavid2407 I'm pretty sure that Tom Bukovac puts the GE-7 after his overdrives. As Mark suggests, have a look at his Premier Guitar rig rundown on UA-cam. I do the GE-7 before my ODR-1. I tried the reverse, but there wasn't enough upper mid content in the output of the ODR. Shaping the content going into the ODR by boosting the upper mids solved my problem. That said, context is everything and you have to consider your total rig including the guitar and amp. I'm using a small Fender Vibrochamp at the end of my signal chain. Don't know if I'd make the same decision with a bigger amp with more headroom.
I use one pre and post gain, it allows you to keep the drive knob on the pedals at a lower level and it just creates a sound that is both massive and clear. Even the best pedals can get too "grainy" with the gain knob turned up too high, this allows everything to stay in their respective "sweet spots."
Brilliant! 👏🏻
One of my favorite tones seems counterintuitive at first. Put a tube screamer with no gain and all the level in front of a driving amp (Mesa Dual Rec) to clean up the low end and add gain, but then put a boost in front of the tube screamer to thicken it back up in a different way than the amp's gain structure. Not a solo boost, but it's Brillant for the music i play
The J Rockett Holdsworth boost pedal has overdrive too. I can get a stacked /boost combination in front of the Strymon Riverside.
For me, the Thorpy Peacekeeper is the best for this. It's a "low gain" overdrive that lets you completely turn down the overdrive, but, also has a TON of volume on tap. As well, there is a VERY powerful EQ on it. In case you were thinking about buying the Heavy Water, look into this one for extra versatility! 💙from🇨🇦
Peacekeeper in next weeek’s show…..
@@ThatPedalShow I'd love to see how you guys dig the mids control on it! 🙏🤓
This is awesome! I was just putting together a board and wondering where to best place the boost! I'm curious: would this be the same if it was a fuzz, not an overdrive?
I use a low gain, high volume overdrive with the drive all the way down (with the eq very useful) at the very beginning of my drives and then a klon after all of my drives. I love 2 boosts sandwiching all of my "higher" gain drives.
Wearing the same shirt Dan, love it!
I'd love to hear thoughts on using a timmy as a volume boost at the end of the gain stage. Sort of an organic boost that pushes in the perfect amount of overdrive to taste. Plus it lets you trim off some bass and even push up the highs if needed. I love what it does!
Yah, totally works!
Great indeed, have used it in the same way, but seems comparable to an EQ pedal. When I got a Kingsley Page it replaced mine, more sustain and compression and amp feel under the fingers.
@@LLVG83 I get that for sure. I have the Hudson Broadcast as my main drive and it gives me that amp feel. I only ever hit the timmy when I disappear in the live mix. It has the volume to push me back up to where any self respecting guitarist needs to be lol.
The Kaluna! Good choice, gents. It's a ripper.
That Heavy Water by Thorpy seems to make everything sound better. It's extraordinary, I've never heard anything like it.
Not strictly on topic question - I was watching one of the older videos with the analogman maxon/badbob gritty boost, can I emulate the bad Bob side of it using something like a Colordriver with the bass down and treble and gain up a bit, or is the EQ curve too different? I’ve also got access to a broadcast or a heavy water if either of those can get closer.
Cheers!
That Kaluna is one of the first valve overdrives I've heard that sounds like a real amp gain stage. Other valve pedals still sound like pedals.
Hk tube factor ;)
Amazing!
Awesome video! If i dont want a louder sound or more overdrive could i use the jhs clover for some other reason?
Thanks for another great show chaps! Quick question, what’s the difference between a boost pedal and a graphic eq pedal? Isn’t a clean boost pedal the same as a flat graphic eq pedal with its volume turned up? And isn’t a treble booster the same as the same graphic eq pedal pushing the treble frequencies etc?
Love that Butters!
i used to have the EQD Arrows pedal, its a beautiful simple pedal. my question is a boost just a pedal with a volume knob?
Everytime i hear the tps pre-intro my body goes into full love mode!
Nice vid mates. Bought me self The TC-spark, really affordable and diverse boost. I higly recomennd it to anyone to try out.
Dan. ya got some nice SHY riffs going on? 🤘
Great video as always ! Rory got it right 50 plus years ago . 😉
Treble booster, AC30. Mmmmm
I’ve had a fun journey with you guys, that to my luck, corresponded with the height of my career and the liquidity to do what I want (hasn’t always been the case). I’ve come to the realization that I truly just might need a fuzz face…though a tone bender is a great tool. I didn’t understand “All you need is fuzz” until I went through this journey. They can boost, distort, and get the fuzz all with a volume knob. Fun conclusion. Get my reverb and trem from the amps, a Ripply Fall, and some delay. Always wet/dry/wet. Tone wise, couldn’t be happier. Heart broken over 🇺🇦 Ukraine, for which I play the blues to sooth my soul and weep for their circumstance.
I definitely need a boost with a bass knob. I get that everyone loves mids (me as well) but man, bass adds so much yum to everything.
Might interfere with your bass player though, if you have one
@@8odycount It wouldn't be something that added that much bass. Lol. Just thickening. Can't stand thin guitar sounds. Like when That Pedal Show or Josh from JHS go over treble boosters. They're ok if you set up some super bass heavy tone to give it something to do... but it has to be set crazy dark for me to like that even a little. I get it if you're in a studio and you got eq faders and stuff. You can set an anemic guitar sound and get away with it. Live or just playing in the room though? I want that Vertex Boost. Just get someone to throw a 3 band eq on it. Lol.
Wampler Tumnus?
I don't think I ever recall seeing a Timmy on the show before. This would have been the perfect opportunity with its EQ controls and I think a lot more people own a Timmy than a Heavy Water, which was already featured 2 or 3 times recently. Also, I knew the DMM was a large box, but holy cow! Seeing it next to a Belle Epoch which I'm familiar with, sheesh its a biggun.
I have a katana that goes before my drives and I really want to get an ep booster to put after them. I see a use for boosts in both spots and the EP and the katana are two different types, that I think could pair well. Thr katana lifts the base tone and then the EP would just add that touch and characteristic at the end.
Ok!!! Light bulb 💡 I finally get it. Thank you gentlemen
Yeah I run two graphic EQ pedals. One immediately after the drive section for changing the character of the drives. One in the EFX loop for lead boost. I don’t like boosts in front of drive pedal. I want my dirty sounds to be open not over compressed. Dirt pedals are effectively compressors. Clean tones are different. I like early compression but I’m an old Nashville guy. In the loop a little bit of boost goes a long way up the volume scale.
Have you done a video on putting a wah pedal before, and after distortion?
I have totally fallen into the camp of boost into overdrive and then using a volume pedal (with a minimum volume setting at the heel) after the final gain stage to turn up for solos. So I was enjoying your video but wasn't learning anything new. Then the 335 into the Kaluna was rolling and you stepped on the Heavy Water....boom goes the dynamite. Great little show today. Have a great weekend.
Fender Engager Boost has great EQ as well...😎😎
Really nice riffing there chaps
Awesome solo at 5:18!
I have tried alil experimenting and I run a thing that has the best of both worlds for me.
Guitar > OBNE Haunt Fuzz > wampler ratsbane > flamma fc18 boost > boss BD-2 as my drive chain, i find it covers a lot of ground!
Hey guys. I have a tele and a clone of a “baby blues breaker” (18 watt 1x12, one volume, one tone, and master). It stays real clean, even cranked. I have several drives and boosts. Would you say a good starting point would be to find my “pre-amp” pedal first? The JHS @ sounds good. Thanks!
Nice to get in a little DS-1 cork sniff there at the end.
Heavy Water is such a great pedal. The lower end knob makes for a great neck pickup strat sound.
I often use a clean boost in the effects loop to trump any of the guys in the band.
Think i do my drive section a little different than most. I do overdrive>clean boost 1>compressor>clean boost 2. This combo seems to give the best of all worlds and great flexibility. Big cleans and tight crunch in any amounts needed on the fly.
I use a boost before my dirt which is always on it's almost at equal level with my overdrive , I also have a boost before my amp that is always on I use it again to maintain volume it fattens my sound , lastly I use a clean overdrive to drive which is my solo boost
Hey you blokes - can you do a video on Perspex screens? Benefits, drawbacks etc. At rehearsals my delux reverb and matchless little monster point at other guitarist, and his Roland blues 60(?) Points at me. All amps are on the floor. Love to know your views. 10 even more-er things perhaps. Love your work.
That’s a great shout! I can hear the hate and butt hurt in the comments section already.
@@ThatPedalShow to be fair, it’s a problem I’m interested in solving… as far as balancing what I hear and what everyone else in the rehearsal room hears. Cause the back of my knees like to feel it. (Amps are right behind me) If there is a way to reduce the directionality of my gear in a cramped rehearsal studio I’m all ears.
I know its not in this video but will you please do a video on that gold top les paul.
I enjoyed this short primer - good for newbies and more experienced alike. Question: if the amp itself is a final gain stage, would it make any sense to put a boost in the effects loop as a final make-louder pedal without pushing the clipping that's already happening? Cheers.
That is exactly where to put it for volume boost.
At this time, I am using a ABY pedal to spilt my guitar single ,I have a double Tele,..Humbuckers , single to two Amps, Amp 1 a Vox 20 & a
2nd amp Fender Super Champ xd,..15 watt,.. My question is,.. should I place more than two Boost pedals at the end of my pedal chain,.. to the end right into the amp,.. and one Boost pedal at the beginning, from my guitar into the ABY pedal into the 1st Boost pedal ,.. and let it run the chain, until it hits the last two Boost just before it reaches the Amps?
Epic tones all round! The question is more like how do you choose which of these awesome sounds to give up?
It’s more about which enables you to connect we think. Give up all the ones that make you think about the tone. The one to keep is when you stop thinking and just play!
@@ThatPedalShow this is absolutely the best answer to this question. wish you guys would do an entire show based on that idea.
@@ThatPedalShow Less thinking, more doing. So simple, yet so difficult!