Winky, I think that you would do well to fit a much weaker reurn spring to the threader. That seemed an excessive rapid return. Regards from Australia.
Nice tool. Over $400 AUD makes it rather pricey though. I'm hoping he will sell plans someday. That would probably make him more money over all as well.
THAT is a genius idea for a home workshop tool!! And simple! Question though. I see you did use the compound for infeed. Doesn't the compound movement set at an angle also "release" the tool sooner as you feed it in farther since it moves both the tool bit and the slide left?
It always retracts in the exact same spot but the depth of cut changes with each pass. If you feed with the compound (as I did) the end of the thread will look a little off center. It still looks great and works find however.
I cried at the end of the video, then I smoked a cigarette, and I'm a non-smoker. I'd love to see an even smaller version that would fit on the cheap Chinese benchtop lathes.
A comment bellow. Got me thinking outside the box. Why not a cover over the table that fits the vice and locator. Sheet that has cutout for vise set above clamps sloped to the back. Tool setter could have a hole with a cap cover?
If I understand what you are saying that's a good idea. I kid of did the same with my knurling tool. I made a mount that sits in the compound t slot so it can not rotate.
That works great. I'd rather stick hot pins in my eyes rather than thread up to a shoulder. It would be a bit pricey by the time I got one to Australia, but as I get older and my reflexes slow even more, it might become more attractive.
I mostly use Geometric auto die heads whenever I can. But it’s difficult to get all the chasers these days. Also my biggest head goes to 1”, so anything g larger needs to be single point cut. No matter how many decades I’ve been doing that, I’ve always thought of it a real pain. I’ve been thinking of making one of these things, but there are a number of people making them, some better than others. This one looks nice. I think he has a couple of videos up. The 1” retract is the latest model. If he’s selling these, I might get one.
Winky - Your Auto - Retract is amazing . Obviously the slide hammer effect is concerning . Can you get some rubber into the design to act as a shock absorber . I'm sure that it will evolve beyound it's present state . Fantastic Video - Four thumbs up . -- Jim
Super demo, and a neat tool, but I don't mind doing it the "old fashioned" way for one-off projects. If I were doing a bunch of the same operation, it'd be a different story. Cheers from Montana!
Glad to see you bought one of his adapters! I bought one of Craig's earlier versions in Dec last year for my SB13. I had never threaded on any lathe before and other than the pucker factor when first using it, it works great. I'm an old guy with slow reactions so threading was just a little to daunting. Do you plan on adding the half nut disconnect to the system? I added that component as well and highly recommend it.
I hardly thread with the compound anymore Ihavent tried straight in acme yet but my threading insert are pretty tough I also like going left to right with my insert holder upside down at a higher speed makes a very nice thread ....cool tool wink I thought you would make one yourself
Upside down and in reverse is probably why you can go straight in but it's hard to do with a screw on chuck. The tool tries to climb out of the cut instead of digging in when things flex
The other day I thought if you flattened and polished the two surfaces where your tool post meets the lathe, when you tighten the nut, they would ring together and you'd have a better chance of the tool post not slipping when the threading tool snaps back
I put a straight edge in the compound and it looked very flat. I also ran a diamond hone over it... it is flat. I assume the tool post is also flat but in reality the contact area is also small which makes the problem worse.
That's a good start, but I'm thinking ringing effect requires a flatness and smoothness beyond what can be had/detected using a straight edge or hone. It's probably not worth the effort to achieve. Probably easier to reduce the mass of the retracting part or reduce the standing spring pressure or find a way to damp the end of travel... Or, how about this? Duplicate the mechanism (at least the snap back effect) on the opposite side of the tool post somehow so there's an equal and opposing impact causing a torque around your tool post clockwise to simultaneously offset the counter clockwise torque that shifts the tool post. The tricky part, I suppose, is synchronizing the release so the real cutter and counterbalance reach full retraction simultaneously with matching torques around the tool post.
The real cutter applies it's impact force at around 2" radius of the post center. A counterbalance mechanism wouldn't need as much mass or acceleration and therefore as much time if it were farther from the tool post center. It then could be triggered after the real cutter begins its retraction, but just before it reaches home.
The more I see these in action the more I need to make one. Great project for student in a vokie school teaching future machinist and hobby shops. Scaled up or down to suit lathe sizes.
The main reason to use the compound is to reduce the chip load on the tool. It cuts 95% on the left. Straight in is recommended to get a on center end to the threads where the tool retracts.
@WinkysWorkshop I got all that but using equipment built in the 30's needing repairs, my nerves couldn't take it. It would be cool to have an internal and external one though
Looks like a nice threading tool. I can see the issue that it has, when the threading tool is triggered to retract it flies back with enough force to act like a slide hammer moving your tool post. Perhaps you can add a damper ( piece of rubber, spring or both) to the tool to absorb the energy before the energy is absorbed by the tool post. Hopefully if the damper works correctly you will not have to use the sandpaper under your tool post.
Put your compound 29 1/2 instead of feeding the compound in feed out and use the diameter radius axis to adjust the actual death of cut. The only thing is you would have to begin with a slack out of the compound as far back as you wish to be from your dead stop then by feeding the compound in play position clear of the part when the radius diameter x axis of you wish to call it also just clear of the part
Going straight in creates and chip clearance issue when the chips from both cutting surfaces intersect. It puts significantly more load on the tool and creates a slightly rougher finish. Some lathes handle the load well and some do not. I can do it if i take very light cuts but have much better luck feeding with the compound. If you want to be able to control the depth with the dial reading you can go twice as far with the compound.
Really interesting! i would love to build one but i would have to get a threadcutting lathe first :) the old hardinge that ive employed in the shop isnt cutting the mustard
Another way, no angle in-feed via compound at 29.5/30 degrees (appears to be an majority US of A machinist practice, not done in the EU, UK, Asia and other Nations). ua-cam.com/video/b9qB8zfUy1E/v-deo.html
Feeding with the compound has more to do with the lathe than than location. Smaller lathe are not as rigid and can't handle the chip load when cutting on both side of the tool. It's the same with cutoff. Somebody with a lathe like the one in your video quite often are not aware of these limitation. Very cool set up in the video although it has a small undercut at the end of the threads. It could be that older US made lathes are not as rigid as well.
@@WinkysWorkshop During thread cutting operations on a lathe there are essentially two moving elements involved. the lathe spindle rotation and motion of the cutting tool driven by the lead screw. ~Threading on a lathe is a form cutting operation. Once the threading tool has been positioned, the threading tool remains stationary and does not more.. Regardless of how the movement of the threading tool is achieved/done. This means moving the threading tool by cross slide alone or combined cross slide and compound movement of the threading tool results in a stationary threading tool once set. Cutting of the thread form occurs by the leading edge of the stationary threading tool being advanced/moved by the lead screw against the work piece moved by the lathe spindle. It is the leading edge of the threading tool that does most of the cutting/material removal with the opposite side of the threading tool cutting/working to create the thread form shape. What is virtually never discussed among the adherent followers of threading by compound in-feed is threading tool geometry. Historically, threading tools were ground using high speed steel blanks with zero rake. For hand ground high speed threading tools trying to achieve high accuracy angles and geometry was difficult, adding any additional changes to the threading tool geometry is even more difficult due to the size and accuracy required for a treading tool. This is why hand ground high speed threading tools tend to have zero rake or neutral cutting angle. It is well known and well proven positive rake cutting tools reduce cutting pressures and forces involved in the metal/material removal process. Examination of modern carbide (A60, IR or ER) insert threading tools notes the positive rake cutting angles moulded into the carbide insert. This high precision/accuracy moulded in feature of the threading insert reduced cutting forces required and are designed specifically for direct (cross side) in-feed. As noted in this Mitsubishi carbide threading guide: www.mitsubishicarbide.net/contents/mhg/de/html/product/product_guide/information/turning/threding_depth_cut.html Similar can be done on a high speed threading tool by adding a positive rake cutting angle to the thread cutting feed direction. As for thread cutting and small lathes... size of lathe alone does not mandate in-feed by compound, here is an example of big threads cut on a much smaller lathe than a South Bend.. ua-cam.com/video/Vg562R0u5S4/v-deo.html ~There are machinist myths that should have died decades ago...
"Technically the right side of the thread profile had a slight saw tooth effect. If I had left a small portion of the tool on the right side it would have eliminated this effect." You've done the experiment and essentially answered this question by this experiment. Essentially repeating the results in this Joe Pie video, coarser head pitch or fewer threads per inch will aggravate or better illustrate the fallacy/myth of only the leading (left hand) edge of the threading tool does the cutting. It is also why ALL industry standard threading tools have full thread form be it 60 degrees, 55 degrees, ACME, Buttress and many more.. All are single point threaded with direct/radial infeed. ua-cam.com/video/8wxa7LB0FtE/v-deo.html Those steps are the result of the trailing or right edge of the threading missing and not making the form cut. It also nicely illustrates why compound infeed at 29.5 or 30 degrees is not needed and only adds complexity to the process of single point threading. Or why Mr Whoopee recommends direct (radial) infeed via the compound, as practice in Asia, Europe and else where for single point threading on a lathe. As for those steps in the heads cut with the 30 degree threading tool, that is not an acceptable 60 degree thread form in any way.
I don't think location has anything to do with threading methods. There is no additional work feeding with the compound. In fact you have to remember a dial position when you back out for the next pass. Remembering a zero position is easier. I replied to this already so if I'm repeating myself I apologize (you tube is messing up I think). Joe actually said what i have been saying all along at the end of his video. That is, with the compound set at 30 degrees on the left side and a small area at the tip on the right are cutting (its at the end of the video). I have a video coming out tomorrow that demonstrates the half tool I made with a small radius at the tip. I think I made 8 passes on a 1/2-13 thread and out three tests the half tool worked the best. When you watch the video pay close attention to the chips being formed. Going straight in makes rough looking chips... the tool is scraping the metal off vs cutting. both the regular tool and especially the half too make nice little spirals. It's actually cutting. Honestly, I think feeding with the compound always yields smoother threads. Under some circumstances the difference is insignificant but in general its a better method. Mr. Whoopee advocates threading straight in because his tool makes a cleaner exit at the end of the threads.
There are a few. First, without the auto retract you can't get super close to a shoulder. Second, without the retract you need to make an undercut or groove to end you threads and it needs to be wide enough to give you time to disengage the half nut. This grove limits the number of threads and weakens the undercut area. In some situations the unthreaded area at the ends of the threads act as a register to hold center (like a lathe spindle of the adapter I made. And last, it looks nice.
So glad you got to try that out. I got one as well from Craig (MrWhoopee). Via the Hobby Machinist forum. That reminds me that I need to order a second one for another lathe.
In some cases I agree but only when the music competes with vocals. No vocal needed for the first few minutes of the video.... building the stop was not the subject of the video. The music stopped when the important content started. Hopefully you made it that far into the video. Maybe next time.
Hi, that's a cool device! I usually now thread in reverse (like Joe Pie) when I can but every once in a while, I must thread towards the chuck. I know your machine only goes one way. Nice video. Rich
Well done on the adapter. I love the auto-retract threading tool. I agree it looks scary in use, but it works well. I may have to get one of these. Dave.
Cool looking tool bro. I do have to say that when I look at the icon for this video I think "Danger Will Robinson"! Younger readers may not get that reference.
Threading is a form cutting operation, angle infeed via compound or radial (direct) infeed via the cross side makes no difference due to the fact once the threading tool position has been set, the threading tool remains stationary for the entire duration of the thread cut on the lathe. There are only two moving items during the thread cutting process, movement of the thread cutting tool on the carriage driven by the lead screw and rotation of the lathe spindle with the work piece on the lathe spindle. Seldom fact with threading is the threading tool geometry. ~Fact is, both sides of the threading tool cuts. This is due to the form cutting nature of thread cutting mandated by thread form geometry. There was a time when threading tools were initially made of carbon steel then a transition was made to High Speed Steel. For both of these threading tool materials the thread form shape was ground into the tool by machine or hand. This method of creating a threading tool has very real limitations, specially hand ground threading tools. Traditional threading tools are typically ground with zero rake, this is not the ideal thread form cutting geometry and is one of the prime reasons why threading on smaller lathes can and is often a problem, nothing to do with angle infeed via the compound set at 29.5 or 30 degrees. As for making large threads on a small lathe, consider and ponder this example of cutting a thread pitch of 5.5mm on a small lathe. ua-cam.com/video/Vg562R0u5S4/v-deo.html The other way for threading up to a shoulder or internal threads with a shoulder is to run the lathe spindle CCW, moving the threading tool away from the shoulder. This is Not possible on a lathe with a threaded on chuck as the chuck is likely to un-screw followed by rapid dismount causing a serious disaster. Manufactures of carbide threading inserts like the now common A60, IR or ER recommend radial infeed or direct in, no angle infeed. www.mitsubishicarbide.net/contents/mhg/de/html/product/product_guide/information/turning/threding_ex_02uni.html For the fact, once the threading tool has been moved into the position needed, the threading tool remains stationary for the entire duration of the thread cutting process. What doe make a very real difference is the threading tool geometry which has a rake and relief moulded into the insert with precise controlled chip formation that cannot be easily done in High Speed Steel hand ground threading tools. Keep in mind, as the lathe carriage is moved by the lead screw that direction of cut is the cutting edge of the threading tool that does most of the work, the back or trailing edge creates the thread form on the back or trailing edge. Both sides of the threading tool is cutting with the leading edge doing most of the cutting.. The American centric angle thread cutting infeed via the compound set at 29.5 or 30 degree myth needs to be understood why and how it came about instead of being blindly followed or practiced without understanding why and how this myth/practice came about. Miltifix made a manual retracing threading tool (Type FE) for their Multifix holders, they have been recently reproduced for Multifix holders: www.lathes.co.uk/multifix/
>>What doe make a very real difference is the threading tool geometry which has a rake and relief moulded into the insert with precise controlled chip formation that cannot be easily done in High Speed Steel hand ground threading tools. Generally speaking this is true of carbide inserts. However, the A60 has a simple profile much the same as a HSS tool. I'm not sure why there is no rake on the sides but in my opinion this would be a plus (go look closely at an A60 insert). Feeding straight cuts equally on both sides of the tool. Feeding in with the compound @ 30 degree cuts only on one side. Feeding in with the compound set at 29 cuts almost all on one side with a very slight cut on the other side. And yes, this is ideal with a HSS tool that is back rake on the left side and back of the tool. The inserts have equal zero rake on both sides with a back rake so going straight in cuts equal on both sides. I do with the inserts were made differently. The 16ER A60 I'm using only has a basic back rake.
@@WinkysWorkshop If you truly believe compound infeed at 29.5 or 30 degrees results in cutting the 60 degree thread form only on one side, simply make (grind up) a trading tool without the trailing edge or a single sided 30 degree triangle and try cutting threads with it... That is the lathe single pointing threading myth that is simply false.
@@rupunzel6299 If the compound is set at 30 degrees it will work near perfect. I'll have to admit that your level of certainty had me doubting myself so I did as you suggested. Please take a look at these picture on my google drive and see what you think. photos.app.goo.gl/wRfnqYL3EY5e2xzFA
No comment? Technically the right side of the thread profile had a slight saw tooth effect. If I had left a small portion of the tool on the right side it would have eliminated this effect. If I was cutting threads in one pass the tool would not have worked. Basically, if you make 8 passes to cut threads only 1/8th of the right side of the tool is used. So at least on the final pass 90% of the cutting is taking place on the left side of the tool.
hay ! that is super cool.... i love it ! ... Well done ! that virtually eliminates the worry of threading toward the chuck !.... I like to thread in reverse with the cutting tool upside down but with a screw on chuck the demands tiny cuts.... i have not experienced the chuck unscrewing in reverse yet doing anything but it is possible ! my chuck seems to latch on very well when I screw it on and it takes a hammer on the chuck key to brake it loose ! not much force but it does lock on ! I love my Logan 911 !!!!!! thanks Winky !
Cool Tool! I think that it should only need to travel a short distance on retract, just enough to clear the OD. Perhaps that's asking for more complexity, but it would eliminate that hammer blow action on the tool post. Just saying...
That's a really useful tool. Glad I watched to the end; I was going to comment a few minutes in that whatever was holding against the popping tool was going to move. Got it right! /blind squirrel.
Winky this is such a great concept that it can't help but spawn further refinement. Like automatically disengagement of the Half Nut. Wakodahatchee Chris
@@josjozefa1463 The tool retracts, stop the lathe, reverse and reset tool and then take another cut. You leave the half nut engaged. Also, some lathes are metric or both so you can use the half nut.
You also coud have done it in 1 setup with a longer piece and inversing the rotation and threading tool upside down (because of the thread shoulder) . That's the way i would choose to keep concentricity.
@@WinkysWorkshop Oops. :) I have the same screw-on chuck however it's held in place with 2 bolt locking clamps. There was also the possibility to make a groove to start the thread , and use a hss threading tool.
I like that tool. Once you conquer the secure setup, this would make single pointing much quicker and easier. It should become the go-to every time you do manual threading. Great invention Craig and great tool demo Captain Wink. Me likee! 🥸👍👀✅
Winky, I think that you would do well to fit a much weaker reurn spring to the threader. That seemed an excessive rapid return. Regards from Australia.
You might be right although its a snug fit. I think the Craig was worried a chip or dirt might make it stick.
It takes away the "stress" part of thread cutting. If you can fully trust the tool of course.
It was stressful to me but you're right.
Thread towards the tailstock and there is absolutely no stress involved
@@37yearsofanythingisenough39 For me a chuck rolling across my basement floor is a lot more stressful.
built one but i made a few changes its really a cool tool.
Yes it's cool. Lots of possible methods.
Nice tool.
Over $400 AUD makes it rather pricey though.
I'm hoping he will sell plans someday.
That would probably make him more money over all as well.
I agree, it is high but there is a lot of work involved making it. You could be right about the plans
Another great video. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it
I think you need another stop at the tailstock end to reset the tool after the cut, old hard wired habits take some re-setting !
Haha... Maybe a CNC lathe? Good idea tho
THAT is a genius idea for a home workshop tool!! And simple! Question though. I see you did use the compound for infeed. Doesn't the compound movement set at an angle also "release" the tool sooner as you feed it in farther since it moves both the tool bit and the slide left?
It always retracts in the exact same spot but the depth of cut changes with each pass. If you feed with the compound (as I did) the end of the thread will look a little off center. It still looks great and works find however.
I cried at the end of the video, then I smoked a cigarette, and I'm a non-smoker.
I'd love to see an even smaller version that would fit on the cheap Chinese benchtop lathes.
Yeah, that would be interesting.
A comment bellow.
Got me thinking outside the box.
Why not a cover over the table that fits the vice and locator.
Sheet that has cutout for vise set above clamps sloped to the back.
Tool setter could have a hole with a cap cover?
If I understand what you are saying that's a good idea. I kid of did the same with my knurling tool. I made a mount that sits in the compound t slot so it can not rotate.
And I thought the only thing Mr Whoopie had was the 3DBB.
This guy is an imposture but a good one. 😉
That works great. I'd rather stick hot pins in my eyes rather than thread up to a shoulder. It would be a bit pricey by the time I got one to Australia, but as I get older and my reflexes slow even more, it might become more attractive.
I understand! It was scary using the tool It worked perfectly but still scary
Now that is a bit of alright. An automatic threader could be very useful. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Thanks Harold, I agree!
I mostly use Geometric auto die heads whenever I can. But it’s difficult to get all the chasers these days. Also my biggest head goes to 1”, so anything g larger needs to be single point cut. No matter how many decades I’ve been doing that, I’ve always thought of it a real pain. I’ve been thinking of making one of these things, but there are a number of people making them, some better than others. This one looks nice. I think he has a couple of videos up. The 1” retract is the latest model. If he’s selling these, I might get one.
I agree, its a good threading tool with a 1-inch retract.
Winky - Your Auto - Retract is amazing . Obviously the slide hammer effect is concerning .
Can you get some rubber into the design to act as a shock absorber . I'm sure that it will
evolve beyound it's present state . Fantastic Video - Four thumbs up . -- Jim
Could be... it's not really my design but I agree.
Super demo, and a neat tool, but I don't mind doing it the "old fashioned" way for one-off projects. If I were doing a bunch of the same operation, it'd be a different story. Cheers from Montana!
Thanks... I agree.
Mark, I'm thinking, if you put a 29 1/2 degree angle on your stop. It will follow your compound rest and stop the double thread at the end.
That's some in depth thinking there! I like that... but really not worried about it... very good thinking.
Glad to see you bought one of his adapters! I bought one of Craig's earlier versions in Dec last year for my SB13. I had never threaded on any lathe before and other than the pucker factor when first using it, it works great. I'm an old guy with slow reactions so threading was just a little to daunting.
Do you plan on adding the half nut disconnect to the system? I added that component as well and highly recommend it.
Very cool! I might do the half nut later.
I hardly thread with the compound anymore Ihavent tried straight in acme yet but my threading insert are pretty tough I also like going left to right with my insert holder upside down at a higher speed makes a very nice thread ....cool tool wink I thought you would make one yourself
Upside down and in reverse is probably why you can go straight in but it's hard to do with a screw on chuck. The tool tries to climb out of the cut instead of digging in when things flex
The reason you're seeing the dual lines is because you're feeding with the compound but ending at the same spot with the tool. Does that make sense?
Yep, that makes perfect sense.
Yes I know. It doesn't bother me at all plus feeding straight in is too much load for my lathe
@@WinkysWorkshop mine too I believe. I have an old Enco 13x36
The other day I thought if you flattened and polished the two surfaces where your tool post meets the lathe, when you tighten the nut, they would ring together and you'd have a better chance of the tool post not slipping when the threading tool snaps back
I put a straight edge in the compound and it looked very flat. I also ran a diamond hone over it... it is flat. I assume the tool post is also flat but in reality the contact area is also small which makes the problem worse.
That's a good start, but I'm thinking ringing effect requires a flatness and smoothness beyond what can be had/detected using a straight edge or hone. It's probably not worth the effort to achieve. Probably easier to reduce the mass of the retracting part or reduce the standing spring pressure or find a way to damp the end of travel... Or, how about this? Duplicate the mechanism (at least the snap back effect) on the opposite side of the tool post somehow so there's an equal and opposing impact causing a torque around your tool post clockwise to simultaneously offset the counter clockwise torque that shifts the tool post.
The tricky part, I suppose, is synchronizing the release so the real cutter and counterbalance reach full retraction simultaneously with matching torques around the tool post.
The real cutter applies it's impact force at around 2" radius of the post center. A counterbalance mechanism wouldn't need as much mass or acceleration and therefore as much time if it were farther from the tool post center. It then could be triggered after the real cutter begins its retraction, but just before it reaches home.
The more I see these in action the more I need to make one. Great project for student in a vokie school teaching future machinist and hobby shops. Scaled up or down to suit lathe sizes.
Yeah, this would be a good project for sure!
Wonder if you can adapt the auto retract threader so it retracts when it hits the shoulder?
Thats an interesting idea!
I can see why its recommended to go straight in. The compound should add a bit of travel to the threading process
The main reason to use the compound is to reduce the chip load on the tool. It cuts 95% on the left. Straight in is recommended to get a on center end to the threads where the tool retracts.
@WinkysWorkshop I got all that but using equipment built in the 30's needing repairs, my nerves couldn't take it. It would be cool to have an internal and external one though
@@bobprice9244 Yeah, it was made in 1931 and its hard to find parts for. The South Bend 11 is not a common as other sizes.
Looks really slick. Did you make it or buy it from him?
It's Mr Whoopee's. The info is in the description. I agree, works great!
His real names Craig….Whoopee 😂
yep,,,
Maybe a thrust washer on the top of the tool post might help it get tight enough not to move.
That would make it tighter but I'm seen damaged compounds from overtightening. I think the abrasive is a little safer and very effective.
@@WinkysWorkshop true, I didn’t think about it breaking. Not a lot of meat on the smaller axa.
@@aaronfritz7234 I think most damage I have seen is left over from lantern tool posts but still don't want to go extremely tight.
Great Tool. I always thinking how to do this safely. And making this with arduino. But with mechanic control i like it more.
Might solve the slide hammer effect but otherwise it works well
Looks like a nice threading tool. I can see the issue that it has, when the threading tool is triggered to retract it flies back with enough force to act like a slide hammer moving your tool post. Perhaps you can add a damper ( piece of rubber, spring or both) to the tool to absorb the energy before the energy is absorbed by the tool post. Hopefully if the damper works correctly you will not have to use the sandpaper under your tool post.
The abrasive mesh is an easy fix but Craig is going to try a piece of rubber.
Yeah, seems like a rubber bump stop should work. Wouldn't take much to dampen the percussive effect.
@@HughMessenger Yeah, Craig said he was going to try this. He said its only the AXA that has this problem.
you could do like the boxer engines do and have a weight that flies forward at the same time. then it's balanced out, apart from the rocking couple.
@@martin-vv9lf That's and interesting idea!
Put your compound 29 1/2 instead of feeding the compound in feed out and use the diameter radius axis to adjust the actual death of cut.
The only thing is you would have to begin with a slack out of the compound as far back as you wish to be from your dead stop then by feeding the compound in play position clear of the part when the radius diameter x axis of you wish to call it also just clear of the part
Going straight in creates and chip clearance issue when the chips from both cutting surfaces intersect. It puts significantly more load on the tool and creates a slightly rougher finish. Some lathes handle the load well and some do not. I can do it if i take very light cuts but have much better luck feeding with the compound. If you want to be able to control the depth with the dial reading you can go twice as far with the compound.
SPECTACULAR FRIEND HOW YOU DOMINATE, AND WORK IRON WITH YOUR MULTIPLE TIME MACHINES, BUT ALL IMPROVED
Thanks, I live the old machines!
Really interesting! i would love to build one but i would have to get a threadcutting lathe first :) the old hardinge that ive employed in the shop isnt cutting the mustard
Yeah, my hardinge is a cool lathe but I don't use it much... small and limited.
2:19 Did Winky just call out Mr. Whoopie for having a funny name? Mr. Pot, I'd like to introduce you to Mr.Kettle, lol.
Haha... very good point!
Another way, no angle in-feed via compound at 29.5/30 degrees (appears to be an majority US of A machinist practice, not done in the EU, UK, Asia and other Nations).
ua-cam.com/video/b9qB8zfUy1E/v-deo.html
Feeding with the compound has more to do with the lathe than than location. Smaller lathe are not as rigid and can't handle the chip load when cutting on both side of the tool. It's the same with cutoff. Somebody with a lathe like the one in your video quite often are not aware of these limitation. Very cool set up in the video although it has a small undercut at the end of the threads. It could be that older US made lathes are not as rigid as well.
@@WinkysWorkshop
During thread cutting operations on a lathe there are essentially two moving elements involved. the lathe spindle rotation and motion of the cutting tool driven by the lead screw.
~Threading on a lathe is a form cutting operation.
Once the threading tool has been positioned, the threading tool remains stationary and does not more.. Regardless of how the movement of the threading tool is achieved/done. This means moving the threading tool by cross slide alone or combined cross slide and compound movement of the threading tool results in a stationary threading tool once set.
Cutting of the thread form occurs by the leading edge of the stationary threading tool being advanced/moved by the lead screw against the work piece moved by the lathe spindle. It is the leading edge of the threading tool that does most of the cutting/material removal with the opposite side of the threading tool cutting/working to create the thread form shape.
What is virtually never discussed among the adherent followers of threading by compound in-feed is threading tool geometry. Historically, threading tools were ground using high speed steel blanks with zero rake. For hand ground high speed threading tools trying to achieve high accuracy angles and geometry was difficult, adding any additional changes to the threading tool geometry is even more difficult due to the size and accuracy required for a treading tool. This is why hand ground high speed threading tools tend to have zero rake or neutral cutting angle. It is well known and well proven positive rake cutting tools reduce cutting pressures and forces involved in the metal/material removal process.
Examination of modern carbide (A60, IR or ER) insert threading tools notes the positive rake cutting angles moulded into the carbide insert. This high precision/accuracy moulded in feature of the threading insert reduced cutting forces required and are designed specifically for direct (cross side) in-feed. As noted in this Mitsubishi carbide threading guide:
www.mitsubishicarbide.net/contents/mhg/de/html/product/product_guide/information/turning/threding_depth_cut.html
Similar can be done on a high speed threading tool by adding a positive rake cutting angle to the thread cutting feed direction.
As for thread cutting and small lathes... size of lathe alone does not mandate in-feed by compound, here is an example of big threads cut on a much smaller lathe than a South Bend..
ua-cam.com/video/Vg562R0u5S4/v-deo.html
~There are machinist myths that should have died decades ago...
"Technically the right side of the thread profile had a slight saw tooth effect. If I had left a small portion of the tool on the right side it would have eliminated this effect."
You've done the experiment and essentially answered this question by this experiment.
Essentially repeating the results in this Joe Pie video, coarser head pitch or fewer threads per inch will aggravate or better illustrate the fallacy/myth of only the leading (left hand) edge of the threading tool does the cutting. It is also why ALL industry standard threading tools have full thread form be it 60 degrees, 55 degrees, ACME, Buttress and many more.. All are single point threaded with direct/radial infeed.
ua-cam.com/video/8wxa7LB0FtE/v-deo.html
Those steps are the result of the trailing or right edge of the threading missing and not making the form cut. It also nicely illustrates why compound infeed at 29.5 or 30 degrees is not needed and only adds complexity to the process of single point threading. Or why Mr Whoopee recommends direct (radial) infeed via the compound, as practice in Asia, Europe and else where for single point threading on a lathe.
As for those steps in the heads cut with the 30 degree threading tool, that is not an acceptable 60 degree thread form in any way.
I don't think location has anything to do with threading methods. There is no additional work feeding with the compound. In fact you have to remember a dial position when you back out for the next pass. Remembering a zero position is easier. I replied to this already so if I'm repeating myself I apologize (you tube is messing up I think). Joe actually said what i have been saying all along at the end of his video. That is, with the compound set at 30 degrees on the left side and a small area at the tip on the right are cutting (its at the end of the video).
I have a video coming out tomorrow that demonstrates the half tool I made with a small radius at the tip. I think I made 8 passes on a 1/2-13 thread and out three tests the half tool worked the best.
When you watch the video pay close attention to the chips being formed. Going straight in makes rough looking chips... the tool is scraping the metal off vs cutting. both the regular tool and especially the half too make nice little spirals. It's actually cutting. Honestly, I think feeding with the compound always yields smoother threads. Under some circumstances the difference is insignificant but in general its a better method. Mr. Whoopee advocates threading straight in because his tool makes a cleaner exit at the end of the threads.
Thanks for showing this tool. I'm heading over to his channel to take a look at this and will be ordering one. Another great video.
I agree, a very nice tool.
Great job, But I really do not see a lot of advantage in the threading tool,??? 👍👍👍👍👍
There are a few. First, without the auto retract you can't get super close to a shoulder. Second, without the retract you need to make an undercut or groove to end you threads and it needs to be wide enough to give you time to disengage the half nut. This grove limits the number of threads and weakens the undercut area. In some situations the unthreaded area at the ends of the threads act as a register to hold center (like a lathe spindle of the adapter I made. And last, it looks nice.
@@WinkysWorkshop Thank you.
Hello...Is possible to buy your drawins ?
I'm not sure if Mr Whoopee sells them. There is a contact email in the description if you want to send him an email.
So glad you got to try that out. I got one as well from Craig (MrWhoopee). Via the Hobby Machinist forum. That reminds me that I need to order a second one for another lathe.
That's great, he did a very good job on this tool!
Thanks Jaime, repeat customers are the best!
Please Sir, How much do you want for one?
The info is in the description
The music junked another video 👎👎👎👎💩💩💩😬
In some cases I agree but only when the music competes with vocals. No vocal needed for the first few minutes of the video.... building the stop was not the subject of the video. The music stopped when the important content started. Hopefully you made it that far into the video. Maybe next time.
Great demo of retractor and nice adapter there. Perhaps it would be less stressful if a landing groove was made at the thread end. Great work Winky!
Well... that's sort of the purpose of the tool. No undercut at the end.
Oh Winky! I've been looking at these for a while now, and your video kindly popped up in my feed 🎉 thanks for sharing buddy
Glad I could help
Hi, that's a cool device! I usually now thread in reverse (like Joe Pie) when I can but every once in a while, I must thread towards the chuck. I know your machine only goes one way.
Nice video.
Rich
Yeah, screw on chucks make it hard to thread in reverse.
Well done on the adapter. I love the auto-retract threading tool. I agree it looks scary in use, but it works well.
I may have to get one of these.
Dave.
Thanks Dave! Yeah is all worked out well, Thanks
SWEET :)
Thanks - I agree
Awesome…no stress🎉
Yeah I like it but I guess you have to learn to trust the tool. It stresses me to watch to tool heading for the shoulder!
That's a great tool, works really well. Thanks for the demonstration.
Your welcome, thanks for watching.
Olá amigo gostei do dispositivo e da precisão!!!
Lhe desejo muita saúde e cada vez mais sucesso!!!
Thank you sir!
Cool looking tool bro. I do have to say that when I look at the icon for this video I think "Danger Will Robinson"! Younger readers may not get that reference.
Haha... surely most have seen the reruns!
Threading is a form cutting operation, angle infeed via compound or radial (direct) infeed via the cross side makes no difference due to the fact once the threading tool position has been set, the threading tool remains stationary for the entire duration of the thread cut on the lathe. There are only two moving items during the thread cutting process, movement of the thread cutting tool on the carriage driven by the lead screw and rotation of the lathe spindle with the work piece on the lathe spindle. Seldom fact with threading is the threading tool geometry.
~Fact is, both sides of the threading tool cuts. This is due to the form cutting nature of thread cutting mandated by thread form geometry.
There was a time when threading tools were initially made of carbon steel then a transition was made to High Speed Steel. For both of these threading tool materials the thread form shape was ground into the tool by machine or hand. This method of creating a threading tool has very real limitations, specially hand ground threading tools. Traditional threading tools are typically ground with zero rake, this is not the ideal thread form cutting geometry and is one of the prime reasons why threading on smaller lathes can and is often a problem, nothing to do with angle infeed via the compound set at 29.5 or 30 degrees.
As for making large threads on a small lathe, consider and ponder this example of cutting a thread pitch of 5.5mm on a small lathe.
ua-cam.com/video/Vg562R0u5S4/v-deo.html
The other way for threading up to a shoulder or internal threads with a shoulder is to run the lathe spindle CCW, moving the threading tool away from the shoulder. This is Not possible on a lathe with a threaded on chuck as the chuck is likely to un-screw followed by rapid dismount causing a serious disaster.
Manufactures of carbide threading inserts like the now common A60, IR or ER recommend radial infeed or direct in, no angle infeed.
www.mitsubishicarbide.net/contents/mhg/de/html/product/product_guide/information/turning/threding_ex_02uni.html
For the fact, once the threading tool has been moved into the position needed, the threading tool remains stationary for the entire duration of the thread cutting process. What doe make a very real difference is the threading tool geometry which has a rake and relief moulded into the insert with precise controlled chip formation that cannot be easily done in High Speed Steel hand ground threading tools. Keep in mind, as the lathe carriage is moved by the lead screw that direction of cut is the cutting edge of the threading tool that does most of the work, the back or trailing edge creates the thread form on the back or trailing edge. Both sides of the threading tool is cutting with the leading edge doing most of the cutting..
The American centric angle thread cutting infeed via the compound set at 29.5 or 30 degree myth needs to be understood why and how it came about instead of being blindly followed or practiced without understanding why and how this myth/practice came about.
Miltifix made a manual retracing threading tool (Type FE) for their Multifix holders, they have been recently reproduced for Multifix holders:
www.lathes.co.uk/multifix/
>>What doe make a very real difference is the threading tool geometry which has a rake and relief moulded into the insert with precise controlled chip formation that cannot be easily done in High Speed Steel hand ground threading tools.
Generally speaking this is true of carbide inserts. However, the A60 has a simple profile much the same as a HSS tool. I'm not sure why there is no rake on the sides but in my opinion this would be a plus (go look closely at an A60 insert).
Feeding straight cuts equally on both sides of the tool. Feeding in with the compound @ 30 degree cuts only on one side. Feeding in with the compound set at 29 cuts almost all on one side with a very slight cut on the other side. And yes, this is ideal with a HSS tool that is back rake on the left side and back of the tool. The inserts have equal zero rake on both sides with a back rake so going straight in cuts equal on both sides.
I do with the inserts were made differently. The 16ER A60 I'm using only has a basic back rake.
@@WinkysWorkshop
If you truly believe compound infeed at 29.5 or 30 degrees results in cutting the 60 degree thread form only on one side, simply make (grind up) a trading tool without the trailing edge or a single sided 30 degree triangle and try cutting threads with it...
That is the lathe single pointing threading myth that is simply false.
@@rupunzel6299 If the compound is set at 30 degrees it will work near perfect. I'll have to admit that your level of certainty had me doubting myself so I did as you suggested. Please take a look at these picture on my google drive and see what you think. photos.app.goo.gl/wRfnqYL3EY5e2xzFA
No comment? Technically the right side of the thread profile had a slight saw tooth effect. If I had left a small portion of the tool on the right side it would have eliminated this effect. If I was cutting threads in one pass the tool would not have worked. Basically, if you make 8 passes to cut threads only 1/8th of the right side of the tool is used. So at least on the final pass 90% of the cutting is taking place on the left side of the tool.
@@WinkysWorkshop
ua-cam.com/video/8wxa7LB0FtE/v-deo.html
hay ! that is super cool.... i love it ! ... Well done ! that virtually eliminates the worry of threading toward the chuck !.... I like to thread in reverse with the cutting tool upside down
but with a screw on chuck the demands tiny cuts.... i have not experienced the chuck unscrewing in reverse yet doing anything but it is possible ! my chuck seems to latch on very well when I screw it on and it takes a hammer on the chuck key to brake it loose !
not much force but it does lock on ! I love my Logan 911 !!!!!!
thanks Winky !
I think reverse has some huge advantages but yeah, Screw on chuck. It scares me. I tried cut off, worked great for about 2 seconds.
Maybe if you did a spring or very shallow pass using the cross slide for the last pass you could get rid of the double ending.
I agree, and Craig suggested the same. I didn't think it was a issue.
Great video, you always have some great, usable ideas.
Thank you! 😊Not mine design but it does work great!
Wow very interesting. Thanks for showing and the demo Mark !
My pleasure!
Man what a great Tool for the Homeshop!
Agree... very cool
I am pausing video to recommend you starting using oil sooner more oil the better .to help chip tear out. And to help cooling.
Probably good advice. Thanks
Cool Tool! I think that it should only need to travel a short distance on retract, just enough to clear the OD. Perhaps that's asking for more complexity, but it would eliminate that hammer blow action on the tool post. Just saying...
It would help but the amount of retract needed changes with what you are making.
The original was exactly that, 1/8" retract, enough to clear an 8 tpi. Of course someone had to complain about that.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 At least for my project it needed to be at lest 1/4". I think it was a good improvement.
Hello Winky, awesome tool, thanks for sharing, much appreciated, cheers from me. 😃👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for watching and I agree! Very cool
Somewhere, there is a rat trap that is missing its main spring.
Haha
Thank you for sharing about this tool!
My pleasure!
That's a really useful tool. Glad I watched to the end; I was going to comment a few minutes in that whatever was holding against the popping tool was going to move. Got it right! /blind squirrel.
Blind squirrel?
Winky this is such a great concept that it can't help but spawn further refinement. Like automatically disengagement of the Half Nut.
Wakodahatchee Chris
Thanks, Mr. Whoopee has done this. The link to the video is in the description.
not gonna work with metric threads, but the tool is great
@@jozefa1234 why?
Metric threads dont work with halfnut open, you never find the right position again so the thread is ruined
@@josjozefa1463 The tool retracts, stop the lathe, reverse and reset tool and then take another cut. You leave the half nut engaged. Also, some lathes are metric or both so you can use the half nut.
That is a great retracting threading tool very impressive..
I agree, thanks
Great build and a great video, thanks!
No problem 👍Thanks for watching
Great video winky, keep'um coming.
Thanks!
Congratulations on the adapter and for explaining the new tool-Thank you,Mark-
You're welcome
You also coud have done it in 1 setup with a longer piece and inversing the rotation and threading tool upside down (because of the thread shoulder) . That's the way i would choose to keep concentricity.
Yes one piece would have been a good approach however I have a screw on chuck so can not thread in reverse.
@@WinkysWorkshop Oops. :) I have the same screw-on chuck however it's held in place with 2 bolt locking clamps.
There was also the possibility to make a groove to start the thread , and use a hss threading tool.
@@sebastienlambert1976 true
I like that tool. Once you conquer the secure setup, this would make single pointing much quicker and easier. It should become the go-to every time you do manual threading. Great invention Craig and great tool demo Captain Wink. Me likee! 🥸👍👀✅
Haha... I like too, thanks!