There is technology when you opponent goes for heavy melee on minon in lane. you can run in and Parry it. If works you kinda always caught them by surprise.
@@user-25352 It sorta does. It prevents the damage but you still get stunned and nocked back. But if you line yourself you can minimize the distance you get nocked back.
It's not a "lag" it's because punch hitboxes are a cone (for now) that even get wider if you aim slighty up or down. Dont ask me why. So dodging on the side with dash isnt effective because of that cone hitting you.
How is the cone oriented, in the perspective of looking at an enemy.. is the circle part of the cone at the top of the character? If so, how does looking down make you hit the hit box ?
You missed a pretty big detail - something that you have half-noticed in the comments about punishing parries with heavy or quick melees while the opponent is stunned: Heavy melees are more dps than quick melees if you optimize them. The heavy melee attack takes twice as long as a quick attack ONLY if you start the heavy melee at max distance and use the full movement distance/time. If you start your heavy melee while you're already up against your target, then the movement portion gets cut short and you do the heavy melee much quicker. This makes it so if you get right into your targets face and heavy melee twice it does more damage per second than quick meleeing because it comes out faster than four quick melees. This is why heavy melee can fit two punches into the parry stun time window but you can't fit four quick melees, because when you punish a parry you're already right next to the person you just stunned, so you're getting the faster version of the heavy attack on both punches, and similarly this is also why it's faster to farm the soul-machines with heavy attacks, because on those machines the heavy attacks count for exactly double progress but take less than double the time to do if you stand right next to the machine while you do them. Also, just going to highlight one other cool trick from another commentor: if you hold down your weapon's shoot button (m1 or m2, whichever is more damage) while you also hold down the melee button, you can get a single shot off between two heavy melees very easily and very quickly, it'll add more damage to the punish after a parry. Alsoo, you can parry people who are trying to melee your troopers, or parry people who are trying to melee the rejuvenator, it's a great way to abuse parry against people who aren't thinking you'll parry them if they weren't targeting you.
i recommend losing the little sound effects and sticking to the in-game audio. the "binks" and "bonks" and "oofs" lower the quality of the video. especially in a game like this where the sound effects are so distinct, i think it's important to teach people game mechanics using the real sounds they'll hear in the game.
This is good feedback. As a side note, using sound effects is fine, but use them for drawing attention to things like informational graphics that pop up. If you talk about an item, have it pop up in a corner of the screen and use a sound effect to draw more focus to it.
I disagree, people have goldfish brains these days and these sounds/effects keep people around longer. Always good to test different things but sticking with what works is always a good plan.
@@benschmidt1942 i'd say i have a goldfish brain, i do not enjoy sound effects in educational content like this, it takes me out of it and distracts me from trying to actually study the information in the video
At lower levels its insanely good. The window for parrying is very forgiving in this game. The amount of times Ive parried Abrams that literally JUST go for charged melees is too high to count. I didnt know it refreshed if you do it right, thats really good! In the early laning phase Ive even seen VINDICTAS that will go for charged melees to creeps that are close to you, which is completely insane to me. Ive never tried dashing forward to a creep and parrying, seems like an incredible play to do if you execute it right, interesting tip!
Ive noticed that as the community evolves the more parries people attempt, and a lot of people still dont expect parrying the minion secures. I think the punish for missing a parry is pretty harsh having you pause like it does. Thanks Deathy! The content keeps getting better! Your channel really took off with Deadlock I hope the momentum keeps going!
You've been my favorite content creator for this game thus far. I think I gain the most information from viewing your videos. Thank you, I appreciate it.
Great and informative video, but I still feel like melee hits in Deadlock are somewhat broken, especially during late-game big teamfights. Sometimes, heavy melee hits register when I clearly missed, or don’t register at all when perfectly landed. When someone runs away and climbs up, or just jumps, and I melee a wall or the spot where they were 2 seconds ago, I still manage to hit and kill them. Often, I see the enemy charging a heavy melee, and I insta-die before they even touch me, there is no room for a parry. Maybe it's caused by server lag or something, I hope Valve looks into it.
speaking of tutorials that don't exist yet, i'd like to suggest a video talking about turrets! the different kind of turrets, their attack patterns, aggro logic, and maybe some info about the souls that come from towers would be really useful. for example, i noticed yesterday that walker stomps can do almost 50% of your max HP early game. that's a big threat that people should know more about and how to play around it. EDIT: edited for semantics/clarity
@@Reddhero12 you're probably right, i havent tested it myself. i just know i got an early push on a walker as infernus and a stomp dropped me from 700 to almost exactly 350; seemed pretty accurate at the time.
you can parry instantly if you're touching the enemy. this works while they're still charging a punch. that means you can parry them before they even swing!
Thanks for the video, I didn't know there is a parry training room. At my level most people don't even know that you can parry. Now I practiced a bit in sandbox, I couple things I noticed: parry is omni directional, so even if you are running / shooting somewhere else you can react to the sound queue. Parry has a range and if you are really close to the opponent heavy punching the parry will apply even when the punch is winding up (before you see the punch going forward in the animation).
The melee in deadlock functions the same way it does in left for dead, When you punch a cone of impact is created in front of you that is why you most of the time can't dodge melee.
Hey, just tested this and I was only able to get 3 light melees in the time they were parried. This means double heavy melee is the optimal thing to do! You just CANNOT hesitate, you have to do it right away. Thanks for watching :)
I think it depends, a second heavy can help you travel the distance to get the damage in if you didn't get the timing correctly and they got out of the stun in time. Probably the best route, just in case. I usually play high bullet damage heros, so when I parry people I dont even bother meleeing, I just burst them down with ammo.
also for another layer to the mind games some buyable abilities (Colossus, Fleetfoot, few more but don't know them all) can cancel the melee still not sure if it is a bug or feature but yet another thing you can do to add to the mind games
Has anyone else had any weird issues with parrying? I swear there are times where I get a successful parry and try to punch back, but then my character just kinda sits there for like a second. Or I can't shoot. Like I'm also getting stunned when I do it. Am I crazy?
it mentions melee in fights but you forgot laning stage like denying creeps and also going for melee early if trying to push the lane into them since it does more dmg than most heros
Thanks for all that melee knowledge! Can you parry melee abilities as in Bebop's uppercut or Abrams charge? Keep making content man, loving those formats
i know a very dumb hidden mechanic, if you look at the very bottom by moving your mouse to the ground until its locked then melee (heavy) your character model spins so it’s harder to predict where you would hit
the dps of heavy and light melee seem to be exactly the same. light melees are *slightly* slower than twice as fast, meaning the damage values balance out to be even. 79 light punches per minute, 41 heavy punches per minute, if i counted right. i timed how long it took to kill a lvl 3 jungle creep by spamming light melees and by spamming heavy melees, and the difference was negligible, human error probably
0:30 So is it more, less, or exactly 2? If you're making an "everything you need to know" melee guide I feel like the actual time would be a good thing to add.
It's not that good to practice parrying at last second because of ping. Simulate ping with console commands in training and test with the dummy. Reliability starts to go down at around 50 ms ping and at 200 it's pretty much rng, mainly at short distances.
Isn't the reason your dash didn't avoid the heavy melee, because you dashed sideways instead of backwards? I've a couple of times managed to dodge backwards just fine without getting hit. Dashing backwards also has the the advantage of easily letting you combo it into a slide for a bit of free poke to punish their heavy melee.
Don't think I saw it stated explicitly so as a bit of mythbusting: Can you parry light melee or only heavy melee? I've also seen people ask about abilities such as viscous punch.
It's so hard to play for a bad player like me recently. Despite watching tutorials and learning all chars, I'm having problems killing other players and I'm dying like a worst nub. I think I'm good at support, defending and taking down objectives, but when it comes to pvp I'm almost always losing. That's very depresing and I'm being a master at uninstalling and installing deadlock back. It was nice on the begining of playtests, when all players been pretty equal, now, when meta builds has been discovered it's not that fun to play for casual player like me. I wish there was better matchmaking, selecting players based on stats, not chars and party only...
Get a coach, you probably have glaring issues in your gameplay that can be easily fixed. Probably positioning around cover, managing your distance, farming, looking at minimap etc. Focus on solving these issues one by one, for 2-3 games you can choose a hero you're familiar with and focus on one specific aspect of the gameplay. For example, pick mcginnis and focus on not dying. When you die, think about why you died and where you should have positionned to avoid dying. Even if you lose, even if you play worse because of this, you will actually improve this specific part of your gameplay. When your positioning is improved you can focus on farming, watch minimap, don't lose waves to tower, try to not miss a single creep for the first 10min (it's difficult but it's your long term objective) shove your lane and use this time to do jungle camps, come back to lane before your creeps die to tower etc. Do these "practice sessions" but also weave in some fun sessions with friends where you can relax, goof around and enjoy the game
I agree with the other comment about the sound effects. They're not really needed in your current style of video making, as well as it just being a bit of an eye/ear sore with so many channels trying to milk that form of edits out. The text animations/zoom ins also fit in that camp for me personally. They're not bad, just not really needed for the otherwise great, simple, get to it videos that you're making. I think they're fine to try out every now and then but don't crutch on it
According to wiki it scales only 50% from weapon damage, so global damage amp, actual melee damage and bullet resist shred are more efficient ways of scaling damage for melee
YO IM TO LAZY TO DO THE TESTING MYSELF BUT CAN YOU DO THE TESTING TO SEE WHAT THE FK IS UP WITH VISOCUS RIGHT CLICK SECONDARY FIRE BECAUSE SO FAR I HAVE SEEN HE IS ONLY HERO WITH A SECONDARY FIRE INSTEAD OF AN AIM IN
Incase you haven’t got an answer yet there is at least one more character with a secondary fire ‘Yamato’ and there may be more. Not sure exactly what you meant but viscous secondary fire is not a mistake or anything
@bigtrenches7371 ya I recently discovered Yamato secondary fire it's better then viscous but both function similarly being an AOE bullet in my testing secondary fire is a bonus action as it can be used with 1 ammo left even tho it actually eats more then 1 ammo normaly but gives you an extra burst shot if you use your last bullet for it
melee abraham is broken? lol that is the easiest one ... people seems always charged attack with this guy... all you have to do is parry LOL thats too easy cause they gonna try to get closer to you (except they are good at cancel charged attack which mostly public match I found after playing 50 hours are rare)
Also notable is the fact that Heavy Melee has a pretty big AOE for a melee attack, meaning its great at busting packs of creeps
Pause
There is technology when you opponent goes for heavy melee on minon in lane. you can run in and Parry it. If works you kinda always caught them by surprise.
@@junshanluo14 It's not "technology" or "tech"... it's a tactic.
@beiggo21 Patrick references lol,we have the technology
I feel like in a melee video you could have mentioned being able to parry the towers to have them stop for a bit.
True! I was mostly focused on hero matchups but you're absolutely right.
but apparently it doesn't work on walker stomp...
@@user-25352 It sorta does. It prevents the damage but you still get stunned and nocked back. But if you line yourself you can minimize the distance you get nocked back.
It's not a "lag" it's because punch hitboxes are a cone (for now) that even get wider if you aim slighty up or down. Dont ask me why.
So dodging on the side with dash isnt effective because of that cone hitting you.
How is the cone oriented, in the perspective of looking at an enemy.. is the circle part of the cone at the top of the character? If so, how does looking down make you hit the hit box ?
You missed a pretty big detail - something that you have half-noticed in the comments about punishing parries with heavy or quick melees while the opponent is stunned:
Heavy melees are more dps than quick melees if you optimize them. The heavy melee attack takes twice as long as a quick attack ONLY if you start the heavy melee at max distance and use the full movement distance/time. If you start your heavy melee while you're already up against your target, then the movement portion gets cut short and you do the heavy melee much quicker. This makes it so if you get right into your targets face and heavy melee twice it does more damage per second than quick meleeing because it comes out faster than four quick melees. This is why heavy melee can fit two punches into the parry stun time window but you can't fit four quick melees, because when you punish a parry you're already right next to the person you just stunned, so you're getting the faster version of the heavy attack on both punches, and similarly this is also why it's faster to farm the soul-machines with heavy attacks, because on those machines the heavy attacks count for exactly double progress but take less than double the time to do if you stand right next to the machine while you do them.
Also, just going to highlight one other cool trick from another commentor: if you hold down your weapon's shoot button (m1 or m2, whichever is more damage) while you also hold down the melee button, you can get a single shot off between two heavy melees very easily and very quickly, it'll add more damage to the punish after a parry.
Alsoo, you can parry people who are trying to melee your troopers, or parry people who are trying to melee the rejuvenator, it's a great way to abuse parry against people who aren't thinking you'll parry them if they weren't targeting you.
love to see someone who clearly plays fighting games talk about the game hahah
Good knowledge on the DPS.
For the 2nd part about parry baiting, he talked about this in the video, and it happens all the time in high mmr.
@@Drwiggles69 tyty, I just took that out now, I finished the vid after writing and forgot to edit that :p
i recommend losing the little sound effects and sticking to the in-game audio. the "binks" and "bonks" and "oofs" lower the quality of the video. especially in a game like this where the sound effects are so distinct, i think it's important to teach people game mechanics using the real sounds they'll hear in the game.
Noted! Thanks for the feedback
This is good feedback. As a side note, using sound effects is fine, but use them for drawing attention to things like informational graphics that pop up. If you talk about an item, have it pop up in a corner of the screen and use a sound effect to draw more focus to it.
This! I remember pros in dota2 using sound to manta dodge magnus ult
I disagree, people have goldfish brains these days and these sounds/effects keep people around longer. Always good to test different things but sticking with what works is always a good plan.
@@benschmidt1942 i'd say i have a goldfish brain, i do not enjoy sound effects in educational content like this, it takes me out of it and distracts me from trying to actually study the information in the video
At lower levels its insanely good. The window for parrying is very forgiving in this game. The amount of times Ive parried Abrams that literally JUST go for charged melees is too high to count. I didnt know it refreshed if you do it right, thats really good!
In the early laning phase Ive even seen VINDICTAS that will go for charged melees to creeps that are close to you, which is completely insane to me.
Ive never tried dashing forward to a creep and parrying, seems like an incredible play to do if you execute it right, interesting tip!
Ive noticed that as the community evolves the more parries people attempt, and a lot of people still dont expect parrying the minion secures. I think the punish for missing a parry is pretty harsh having you pause like it does. Thanks Deathy! The content keeps getting better! Your channel really took off with Deadlock I hope the momentum keeps going!
Especially harsh if the reason you miss your parry is because they suck and miss you with their melee lol
"Close your eye and listen to the sound so you can get better"
*Adds a frying pan sound edit that isnt in the game
The TF2 memories...
You've been my favorite content creator for this game thus far. I think I gain the most information from viewing your videos. Thank you, I appreciate it.
Holy moly i had no idea parry existed. this is a game changer
Great and informative video, but I still feel like melee hits in Deadlock are somewhat broken, especially during late-game big teamfights. Sometimes, heavy melee hits register when I clearly missed, or don’t register at all when perfectly landed.
When someone runs away and climbs up, or just jumps, and I melee a wall or the spot where they were 2 seconds ago, I still manage to hit and kill them.
Often, I see the enemy charging a heavy melee, and I insta-die before they even touch me, there is no room for a parry.
Maybe it's caused by server lag or something, I hope Valve looks into it.
speaking of tutorials that don't exist yet, i'd like to suggest a video talking about turrets! the different kind of turrets, their attack patterns, aggro logic, and maybe some info about the souls that come from towers would be really useful.
for example, i noticed yesterday that walker stomps can do almost 50% of your max HP early game. that's a big threat that people should know more about and how to play around it.
EDIT: edited for semantics/clarity
walkers most certainly do NOT do that much damage, lol.
@@Reddhero12 you're probably right, i havent tested it myself. i just know i got an early push on a walker as infernus and a stomp dropped me from 700 to almost exactly 350; seemed pretty accurate at the time.
Great idea!
@@MelloGrunty so the safer assumption should've been that a walker stomp does ~350 damage, not blanket 50% max hp lol
the other way people deal with melee is just double jump. and If you're slowed your heavy melee actually cover less distance
Learned that second part from a Lash bot hitting me with cold front every fight lol
New pfp threw me off bc it's not orange anymore. Love the new look though!
you can parry instantly if you're touching the enemy. this works while they're still charging a punch. that means you can parry them before they even swing!
Thanks for the video, I didn't know there is a parry training room. At my level most people don't even know that you can parry.
Now I practiced a bit in sandbox, I couple things I noticed: parry is omni directional, so even if you are running / shooting somewhere else you can react to the sound queue. Parry has a range and if you are really close to the opponent heavy punching the parry will apply even when the punch is winding up (before you see the punch going forward in the animation).
Yep all good points! I probably should have mentioned parry is omnidirectional, which is why parrying on-top of the rejuvenator works
The melee in deadlock functions the same way it does in left for dead, When you punch a cone of impact is created in front of you that is why you most of the time can't dodge melee.
You said parrying someone allows for 2 heavy melee, wouldn't that be better to land 4 light melees then ? Or 2 light and one heavy ?
Hey, just tested this and I was only able to get 3 light melees in the time they were parried. This means double heavy melee is the optimal thing to do! You just CANNOT hesitate, you have to do it right away. Thanks for watching :)
@@Deathy I tested it,it's better to hold q rather than spamming it when hitting the arcade machine
The most damage is actually heavy melee while holding fire button, and then do a second heavy. Or alt fire if that deals more damage.
I think it depends, a second heavy can help you travel the distance to get the damage in if you didn't get the timing correctly and they got out of the stun in time. Probably the best route, just in case.
I usually play high bullet damage heros, so when I parry people I dont even bother meleeing, I just burst them down with ammo.
@@MattiKettu I don't think you have time to fire
Idk man I think the parry stun is a bit too punishing 2 heavy melees is kind of crazy
Great vid as always!
that fake melee into siphon is crazy thanks for the tips
also for another layer to the mind games some buyable abilities (Colossus, Fleetfoot, few more but don't know them all) can cancel the melee still not sure if it is a bug or feature but yet another thing you can do to add to the mind games
LESS WOOSH TIKTOK EDITING PLS
WE ARE GROWN UPS
Has anyone else had any weird issues with parrying? I swear there are times where I get a successful parry and try to punch back, but then my character just kinda sits there for like a second. Or I can't shoot. Like I'm also getting stunned when I do it. Am I crazy?
it mentions melee in fights but you forgot laning stage like denying creeps and also going for melee early if trying to push the lane into them since it does more dmg than most heros
you dont have time to heavy attack twice aftedr a parry depending on the distance. even if you close enough the timing is extremely tight
Thanks for all that melee knowledge! Can you parry melee abilities as in Bebop's uppercut or Abrams charge?
Keep making content man, loving those formats
You can’t
i know a very dumb hidden mechanic, if you look at the very bottom by moving your mouse to the ground until its locked then melee (heavy) your character model spins so it’s harder to predict where you would hit
Its the sound effects for me lmao.
The lag on the punch when dashing really needs a fix, melee feels so bad to play against right now
"Try to go off sound"
Replaces everything with random sounds
Smh
the dps of heavy and light melee seem to be exactly the same. light melees are *slightly* slower than twice as fast, meaning the damage values balance out to be even. 79 light punches per minute, 41 heavy punches per minute, if i counted right. i timed how long it took to kill a lvl 3 jungle creep by spamming light melees and by spamming heavy melees, and the difference was negligible, human error probably
Missing itemization, how melee is influenced by items
how did I miss that practice spot lmao
0:30 So is it more, less, or exactly 2? If you're making an "everything you need to know" melee guide I feel like the actual time would be a good thing to add.
Appreciate this kind of content Deathy, thanks.
It's not that good to practice parrying at last second because of ping. Simulate ping with console commands in training and test with the dummy.
Reliability starts to go down at around 50 ms ping and at 200 it's pretty much rng, mainly at short distances.
Isn't the reason your dash didn't avoid the heavy melee, because you dashed sideways instead of backwards? I've a couple of times managed to dodge backwards just fine without getting hit. Dashing backwards also has the the advantage of easily letting you combo it into a slide for a bit of free poke to punish their heavy melee.
Don't think I saw it stated explicitly so as a bit of mythbusting: Can you parry light melee or only heavy melee? I've also seen people ask about abilities such as viscous punch.
It's so hard to play for a bad player like me recently. Despite watching tutorials and learning all chars, I'm having problems killing other players and I'm dying like a worst nub. I think I'm good at support, defending and taking down objectives, but when it comes to pvp I'm almost always losing. That's very depresing and I'm being a master at uninstalling and installing deadlock back. It was nice on the begining of playtests, when all players been pretty equal, now, when meta builds has been discovered it's not that fun to play for casual player like me. I wish there was better matchmaking, selecting players based on stats, not chars and party only...
Get a coach, you probably have glaring issues in your gameplay that can be easily fixed.
Probably positioning around cover, managing your distance, farming, looking at minimap etc.
Focus on solving these issues one by one, for 2-3 games you can choose a hero you're familiar with and focus on one specific aspect of the gameplay.
For example, pick mcginnis and focus on not dying. When you die, think about why you died and where you should have positionned to avoid dying. Even if you lose, even if you play worse because of this, you will actually improve this specific part of your gameplay.
When your positioning is improved you can focus on farming, watch minimap, don't lose waves to tower, try to not miss a single creep for the first 10min (it's difficult but it's your long term objective) shove your lane and use this time to do jungle camps, come back to lane before your creeps die to tower etc.
Do these "practice sessions" but also weave in some fun sessions with friends where you can relax, goof around and enjoy the game
With dodging the melee, it’s not that there’s lag , that’s because of the AOE, right ?
Shiv ult + light melee is insanely broken
This is amazing video and advice. My brain 🧠 grew
My goat
Why not do 4 light attacks instead of 2 heavy attacks after parrying? Doesn't that do more damage?
I agree with the other comment about the sound effects. They're not really needed in your current style of video making, as well as it just being a bit of an eye/ear sore with so many channels trying to milk that form of edits out. The text animations/zoom ins also fit in that camp for me personally. They're not bad, just not really needed for the otherwise great, simple, get to it videos that you're making. I think they're fine to try out every now and then but don't crutch on it
I also agree on the sound effects, but I personally like the text animations and such. It's a spectrum ofc
Can light melee be parried
Yes but it needs to be predicted as it's too quick to be reacted to
Does bullet damage increse melee damage?
Yes, and affected by stuff like bullet resist.
According to wiki it scales only 50% from weapon damage, so global damage amp, actual melee damage and bullet resist shred are more efficient ways of scaling damage for melee
My morale was so low till my teammate a Russian
Suddenly i am not as coward as used to
noob here: i keep seeing eldo using heavy melee to neutrals without moving (hence hitting all neutral creeps in one melee) how do you do that?
Any info on meleeing the mid boss? I see so many high mmr youtubers meleeing the boss and idk why
Pretty sure it's just more dps than gun dmg, especially in the early game
Probably conserving bullets in case they get invaded by the enemy team
check out Fleetfoot with melee u cant trick/fool the opp w it
dash slide punch
high risk high reward is parrying someone when they want to secure minion, if succeed that's free 300 dmg if fail they punching me for the next 5s xdd
YO IM TO LAZY TO DO THE TESTING MYSELF BUT CAN YOU DO THE TESTING TO SEE WHAT THE FK IS UP WITH VISOCUS RIGHT CLICK SECONDARY FIRE BECAUSE SO FAR I HAVE SEEN HE IS ONLY HERO WITH A SECONDARY FIRE INSTEAD OF AN AIM IN
Incase you haven’t got an answer yet there is at least one more character with a secondary fire ‘Yamato’ and there may be more. Not sure exactly what you meant but viscous secondary fire is not a mistake or anything
@bigtrenches7371 ya I recently discovered Yamato secondary fire it's better then viscous but both function similarly being an AOE bullet in my testing secondary fire is a bonus action as it can be used with 1 ammo left even tho it actually eats more then 1 ammo normaly but gives you an extra burst shot if you use your last bullet for it
@@TylerHachey-w4p yeah I personally like the secondary fires and hope for more in the future rather than just ADS
Shiv also has a secondary fire where he fires 2 bullets together
I wish melee was a little better
Not including punch-dash cancelling in a video called everything you need to know smh
Dont forget, shout "BLACK FLASH" when you do heavy melee strike
Parry is key
did you hire a fiverr editor for this one xD?
melee abraham is broken? lol that is the easiest one ... people seems always charged attack with this guy... all you have to do is parry LOL thats too easy cause they gonna try to get closer to you (except they are good at cancel charged attack which mostly public match I found after playing 50 hours are rare)
MikaelS is a blatant aimbotter
drop a clip
@@theofratus1 watch any videos on his channel, aimlocks like crazy
Fucking gaming is back baby, thank you for this nugget of gold 🤌♥️