If you really think about it, the Brodix heads were probably only about $200 more expensive after the spring upgrade to the Procomps... And the Brodix casting quality is far superior to the Chinesium Procomp heads... The Brodix deck thickness is thicker which means more stable and less distortion... And as always USA made is the better way to go!
Awesome test !! Thank you. I just bought a pair of these Brodix heads. I’m on a big buy American campaign. Great to see the dyno result. Way worth the money! My project is a Freiburger style, tunnel ram 374. (4.125 bore. 3.500 stroke) in a ‘62 Corvette drag car. Hoping for 550hp. Low 10’s.
Same here always have. Ported a set of Proheads (dart copys) sbc head Numbers were as good as and in some ways better than a pro ported set of 230Darts...Cant bring myself to put the chinese stuff on my car. Seats and guides are crap quality in comparison
SBC stuff thanks. Plan on freshening my 358ci sbc this winter (my 492 angle plug heads are massively ported, intakes port matched too), everyone says I'll pick up a bunch with modern heads ,if finances allow still thinking Pro-Filer, AFR heads,now adding Brodix to the mix. Your excellent at spending my money Richard (least I'll get what I pay for). SBC FTW!
Subs are getting up there Richard. Hope everything is safe with you and Your family due to the Wildlifes. Thanks for all the content. You are doing an Awesome thing for all us car Guys. Cheers. 👍
Good video. You got me thinking though. What about a valve degree shootout? 19* vs 23* and so on? Same cc's, just different valve angles? I think it'd be cool.
@camaroguy 66 Richard's channel is all about 12 degree heads, that is what the LS has and he does at least one LS video a year.. lol. Pontiac engines have a 14 degree inclination angle from the factory after 1967. Its only high end race stuff when you talk about the sbc. Its stock stuff for better engines.
@@biggregsparks8364 you can also get a smaller open chamber with less valve shrouding with a shallow angle, with shallow valve reliefs in the pistons, better flame control/pattern with the increased compression. It allows a flat top piston, and the small chamber with a bigger valve. ref the LS and Pontiac engines with 12 and 14 respectively. You can make 13:1 with a factory head and a flat top piston on a Pontiac, only milling .030" from the head. The low/mid lift flow where the valve spends the most time is much better with the shallow valve angles, like in the LS head. the Pontiac does well too, but you'll have a hard time finding as much info as is available for the LS. As it happens both the Pontiac and LS have high velocity long runner port designs, which makes them both enjoy bottom end torque the sbc can't match, and also allows them to make power to 6500 easily.. well the 350-428 Pontiacs can, the 455 doesn't get enough air to rev to 6500 with factory heads. The 455 and larger will rev higher with aftermarket heads that flow more air, and they still make crazy torque at the bottom. At least the SB2 style stuff makes decent power, but man is it expensive and requires lots of special parts.
@@ShawnGilbert1967 compared to the sbc and bbc the LS is absolutely wonderfully amazing. So much power with so little effort and its a lot cheaper than a bbc build. Thats why I went with a mild cam in a junk yard 6.0 with free 706 heads for my 76 C10. The sbc was a pathetic dog that drank gas, the bbc was even worse and used far more fuel. The closest I can get to the power I had in that truck from a 400 Pontiac is the LS. Probably down on torque from idle to 5000rpm compared to the Pontiac, but vastly better than the orange lumps. Why not just put a Pontiac back in? I need the engines I have for vehicles I am building, GTOs, Trans Ams, Formulas, a Ventura, an Opel GT.. have two of those Opels, one is getting a cammed 5.3, both are getting tube chassis to make it simple. I get 5.3s given to me all the time. The parts to put them in other vehicles cost more but you get so much more out of one of those compared to the chevy engines. To me building a chevy and putting it in one of my vehicles is going backwards. The stock stuff for an LS is dirt cheap, mostly. I want an aluminum 6.0 block for my 98 Formula, throw a 4" crank in it and have a Formula 400. Being a Pontiac guy I like the mix and match ability of the LS too, its almost as good as the Pontiac compatibility. I get a lot more power from my Pontiacs for a lot less money, and all the factory stuff works with it, so I won't be dropping LS engines in my GTOs and stuff any time soon. I like that 500 to 600ftlbs from idle to 5000rpm too much.
Absolutely yes The difference between 1400 or 1800 dollars is damn near 50 horsepower and 40ft/lbs. A momentary punch in the wallet is absolutely worth a gigantic smile punching the gas pedal for years to come
Hell yes the power is worth it! That's power is always there, pure geometry. As-cast heads give you two main benefits: -- More thickness where a CNC program may thin out certain castings. -- You typically end up with a valve guide that hasn't been machined, so its structure will likely be better.
I have always heard the the Speedmaster heads use lower end valves, retainers and guides. You seem to have verified that by having to upgrade the springs. So his much did the spring upgrade cost so we kind the full cost of the Speedmaster vs the Brodix.
It's not that they are junk lol when you buy a head you buy it to match whatever cam you're running and in this instance they just bought heads without providing information so the speed master heads was set up for a smaller cam possibly a stock cam and I've never owned speed master but from the people I know who run them don't have any issues with them they are a budget head and as with anything ( you get exactly what you pay for )
AFR hardware isn't much to brag about....I don't know what they use now but, when the 195 Eliminator series 1st came out....Mine had KAR valves from India!
Very interesting comparison and as usual great information. Would love to see a test on the AFR as cast series heads in the future. Keep up the great content!
Agree....port size, valve size of those cnc speedmaster is a joke. Have a set here at home (not speedmaster nor usa) doing at least the same with a waaay smaller port and 2.02 valve
Still love you to be the FIRST on UA-cam to do some comparisons / test / vs with sbc Edrlbrock Victor Junior heads . No one has and I can’t understand why ?!?
I feel with better intake, big solid roller, more rpms, probably another point or two on compression and at least 1 7/8 headers and you would have yourself an ls killer 😉. Nice build
I run a set of Dragonslayers on my .040 over 400sbc flat top bracket motor 630 roller HVH Brodix intake 950 carb. Made 614 hp 586 tq. Fantastic heads right out of the box!
I would definitely buy the Brodix heads. I think another interesting test would have been to slap on an Edelbrock air gap intake and see the bottom end pick up vs the high end loss. May be worth going with the air gap for a street vehicle. Also, would like to see you do a 427 SBC vs 427 BBC with same compression, same series heads, same series camshaft and see what the differences are. I will bet the BBC edges it out slightly.
I can tell you for a fact you gotta port a air gap to go on ik200s. The casting quality on the brodix head was way better than all the others I checked out.
theory of air gap vs feeling a difference in the butt dyno...buy what you can afford doubt youll feel a thing otherwise. Intakes make less of a difference than most would guess.
Exactly not only more peak power but everywhere. Its definitely worth the extra cost. If I didnt have enough I would just wait and save up more until I did.
Yes , those Brodix heads would definitely be worth the extra cost, in my opinion. The amount of gains in the lower rpm range is huge .Thanks Buck from Ky
Richard - great video once again. How about Summit and/or Blueprint VS AFR and/or all of the above VS each other....? Might be beating a dead horse, but why not.... LOL
The supplied springs with the Brodix heads were up to the job? If so, it's a no-brainer. Thanks for the comparison Richard. I do not dabble in SBC stuff much anymore, but wow, we are in a golden age aren't we?
This is why I picked the Brodix heads for my engine. Figure I can always CNC them later when it's time for another upgrade. Can't really do that with the other heads without replacing them.
You CANNOT beat cylinder head airflow! Period! Hence the reason I love square port LS heads! 300+ CFM STOCK! And great increases when their ported. Especially on the exhaust side...
@@hendo337 I was referring to just the factory heads. Since I'm doing a semi budget build, that's the route I'm taking. If money was no object, I'd go with AFR for sure. Maybe after I scatter this setup. Lol
@@hendo337 you made great points, but I'm with this guy. I prefer work over L92 heads, than investing into my 317 or any other factory cathedral port heads
hendo337 yeah I hand ported a set of 706s, for my ls1 and 6.0 small valve is happier up high, as long as it still flows not to mention the extra compression, the hand ported 706s have a killer torque curve and makes fantastic average power from 3-7000 rpm
It depends on the application. If I wanted more power for a pickup or something of that nature I would probably go with the cheaper heads. If I was building an engine for a sleeper or something of that nature I would go with the more expensive heads.
Yes yes yes...out the box with acceptable springs...as cast...yes. I have yet to build a healthy small block, but one think is obvious...heads are the key. I haven't ever had the power the speed master heads created, but it would be wise to step up all things considered. This is information I can use.
You should do a shoot out on the pro Maxx heads they are a good low buck option, but would be interested to see how they perform on a set up like this.
Would be curious to see the difference in a set of older good cast heads, like dart or world sportsman 2's compared to these heads. I'm sure there's a big difference, question is, how much and where.
It depends on the cam that you select. The more aggressive the cam profile, the bigger the difference between the performance of the 2 heads. Having said that, I would probably go with the more expensive heads. If you're going to do the work of doing the head swap, you're better off spending a little more money.
I would like to see what the CNC ported version of the Brodix dragon slayer heads did on the dyno. to compare the Ported vs no Ported versions and the cost. I would also like to see what a basic home sanding roll cleanup to the ports on the dragon slayer head would do for flow. that's more flow bench testing than dyno testing. but it would be neat to see. Personally I would spend the extra 400 on the Brodix head. 1. it made more power and 2. you know it is a quality head. Speed Master is just the new name for the Chinese made ProComp heads. I know some guys that like them, and I know a few engine builders that hate them. the guys I know that like them are the DIY guys that are just looking for a cheap head. the guys i know that hate them are all professional engine rebuilders that tell me the quality control on the fully assembled heads is crap, mainly valve seats out of round, loose guides, pushrod guide plates that don't line up with the valves, etc. I have been told the bare casting itself is OK, but it needs to have a competent machine shop finish and assemble them. to me I would just rather buy a assembled head from a manufacturer with a proven track record like Brodix, AFR, Edelbrock, Trick Flo, or Dart. you would be money ahead to start with.
How much extra for the set of Comp spring upgrade? That would ad to the cost of the ProComp heads narrowing the difference in cost. Great content. Thanks.
I used to work in a factory as a machinist, as a mechanic in my shop, and also did military time which resulted in me not having to/being allowed to work anymore, but having a rather small fixed income. So lots of cool skills and time, not much money. Low buck is the only way I can do things. I like to go fast, which is why I go with big engines that make tons of torque under 6000rpm. It costs a lot less to have fun being able to use the 2.73 or 3.08 gears that are already in the car.
@@Anarchy-Is-Liberty there is not many factory forged crank and rod in engines you pull from you car or thre junk yard. most are cast. so if you blow budget on heads you stuck with the cast factory parts
Would like to see this tes done on a 400 sbc, with dart Pro 1 230, Rhs 235, Afr 235, and dragon slayer plus any top head suppliers I've missed out and around 650 to 675 valve lift. Cheers
Coming from someone that spent only 895$ on promaxx heads, yea the power is worth the extra 400ish dollars. I like my heads though and for the price I feel like they are a better buy than the cnc speedmasters.
@@thereluctantgearhead4544 . Dude That sounds like a very nasty setup. Thanks for letting me know. My engine has just over 500hp but the car is a little heavy at the moment. But I think I should be able to get to around your vehicles weight. Cheers.
I would like to see a comparison between the Dragon Slayer head, AFR 215s and Darts SHP 200 head. I have the SHP 200s on a 383 and would really like to know what I could gain with the better heads.
I would like to see a cost and performance comparison between this head and a Chevy Vortec head that has been cleaned up and has new springs and rockers, etc, so it is comparable to the Speedmaster in terms of condition.
I love my dragon slayers. Although I have had them fully ported as well as install exhaust valve seals as the dragon slayer is prepped for only race so those seals are not included
I would like to see a dyno comparison between stock 862 and home ported heads on a stock 5.3 with a sloppy stage 2 cam and PAC 1218 springs. Just do a basic port. Clean up the bowl, casting flash, and the rocker stud lump in the intake port. Also use stock valves on both tests.
Good video to point out that marketing tricks people into thinking only the latest and greatest tech always is best. If you don't know what your doing the best CNC machines in the world won't help...
For most, it's never enough and $3-400 doesn't seem outrageous for the possibility of future growth. I imagine they'll (the brodix) will support mo powa(baby) and not require an upgrade next season when you decide that it's not enough. I'm struggling with turbo choices currently, I don't want to select an overly large unit and lose too much streetability , but I am very concious of the fact that I will definitely want more. The eternal question, "Speed cost, How fast do you wanna go"?
Absolutely, the extra cost of the Brodix heads is worth it (at least on this combo). You're talking about 50 hp for $400, what other mod can you buy for $400 that will make an additional 50 hp? Also, as stated, the upgraded spring package cuts into that price savings, too. Whats 235cc intake ports good for if the cam can't be over 550"?
I’ve got a 78 long bed with a 355 procomp heads comp 273xe roller rpm air gap speedmaster rods and kB hyperutectic flat tops and it produced about the same power curve just about 30 hp and tq less really fun combo with 2500 stall and 4.56 gears on 31s
I have a 383 short block with eagle forged internals at 10.2 compression with 64cc heads that I had built. I am putting it in my 84 chevy c10 pickup. I would like more torque than the 350/330hp crate motor that is in it now. The truck has 3.73 limited slip, 2500 stall with a 350 tranny. I would like to know your opinion on the best combo with a hydraulic flat tappet cam and heads that would be very streetable. I hear so many suggestions from people so it has been very confusing to say the least.I have seen too many people put too big of a cam in there motors that were not very good compared to a perfectly matched cam and heads. I have a magnum comp cam 230/480 in my shop which is not real radical but I don't have to use it if you think what would be the best combo for a torque monster that is streetable to move this 4200lbs truck. The crate motor now is peppy but I want more torque. I will not be turning more than 5500 rpm on my 383. Hope you can give me some ideas with all your experience. Thank you. Great videos.
I would have liked to see this same combo but done on a 406 sbc. If you're going to run a small block Chevy, might as well be the biggest production small block out there!! There is no replacement for displacement!
Have seen a ton of Blueprint short blocks and crate motors on here but it would be cool to check out some of their aluminum heads like the HP8103 on this 383 for another budget option.
If you work in America you should consider buying made in America when you can it's not like you buy heads and intake every time you build one I'll spend a little extra for an American made part
Have you made a video from your test with the composite SBC intake manifolds yet (AFR if I recall correctly)? I didn't find it, but was hoping you had made one.
Making some assumptions on a standard 450-500 horsepower 383 (everything but the heads costing around $6k) the CNC head build costs $15.01/horsepower while the Brodix head build costs $14.60/horsepower. Seems like the Brodix equipped motor has a 3% better cost per horsepower
I know they’re pricey, but have you tested canted, splayed-valve heads with the LS valve order? Combine that with the firing order change, 4/7 swap, tested on Engine Masters.
I am curious if you have ever tested the 366 BB Chevy I have several stull running. I'm thinking about a older tow rig. Not a race car. Torque and maybe increase HP to 310 or 320...
Is spending the money for cylinders heads the produce more power worth the expence . Absolutely . In my option a great set of heads enables you to run less camshaft and still make good power .
is there a good way to quantify area under the curve and it's effect on et. does the 20hp ish increase between 3.5-5k mean more or less than the 40-50ish between 5-6.5k. im guessing with less power the car takes longer to sweep through the first half of the rev range, especially in lower gears at least until the wind resistance fires up in top gear. Thanks for the great content.
Hey Richard I'd like to see the NKB Chevy eBay heads done they're supposed to flow better than the speedmaster head and are supposed to be made out of better aluminum
That's interesting because the Brodix DS 225 heads advertise 300+CFM on the intake but just 210 CFM @0.700" life on exhaust. So they under performed on intake flow and over performed on exhaust, the last of which I believe is a lot more important than most people think.
@@richardholdener1727 I understand what you are saying. It was a criticism of the Brodix heads. I found it interesting that the intake numbers were lower but the exhaust numbers were higher. It would be interesting to test how much exhaust flow effects horsepower production? In one of your head tests it appeared that the heads that flowed better on the exhaust while having comparable intake flow produced more power. Data is data therefore the heads did underperform compared to the numbers given by Brodix unless Brodix supplied exact dimensions of the bore size on which they tested. I do understand your concern trying to not knock a good head however if they are going to supply the flow numbers they should supply all testing parameters.
This lines up pretty well with my 385 coming in at 600hp at 10.83:1 and a custom designed Bullet racing solid roller with .666/.645 etc etc. I have dragon slayer's with a Holley strip dominator and custom built prosystems 950. Hell of a pump gas street/strip engine. 6" procomp rods, cola crank, probe forged pistons. Should handle up to a 200 shot on top but with the moly rings I'll never go over 150 if I ever spray it at all. Thinking about pulling them and sending them to Chad speire and having his cnc program done. That program gets just over 330 at .600 :o)
@@danieljames5875 Sorry it's a year later. Just happened back upon this video lol. My cam has a 106 LSA, 666/645, duration at 050 is 255/263. Bullet cams grind number CHS 288/297-09R. Fantastic street/strip solid roller. I used Morel solid bushing lifters. Lifter's were like $1100. I did not want a failed needle nearing grenading my fresh build.
You should do some mass heads tests in group price format. For $1k see what heads do the best, for $1500, $2k and beyond lol. Guaranteed to keep attention. Same for LS aftermarket or Ported stock heads aligned by price as well with their similar priced aftermarket versions.
I used to work at Brodix for 3 years in Mena Arkansas.....best heads and a fine company....
If you really think about it, the Brodix heads were probably only about $200 more expensive after the spring upgrade to the Procomps... And the Brodix casting quality is far superior to the Chinesium Procomp heads... The Brodix deck thickness is thicker which means more stable and less distortion... And as always USA made is the better way to go!
Awesome test !! Thank you.
I just bought a pair of these Brodix heads. I’m on a big buy American campaign. Great to see the dyno result.
Way worth the money!
My project is a Freiburger style, tunnel ram 374. (4.125 bore. 3.500 stroke) in a ‘62 Corvette drag car. Hoping for 550hp. Low 10’s.
Same here always have. Ported a set of Proheads (dart copys) sbc head
Numbers were as good as and in some ways better than a pro ported set of 230Darts...Cant bring myself to put the chinese stuff on my car. Seats and guides are crap quality in comparison
SBC stuff thanks. Plan on freshening my 358ci sbc this winter (my 492 angle plug heads are massively ported, intakes port matched too), everyone says I'll pick up a bunch with modern heads ,if finances allow still thinking Pro-Filer, AFR heads,now adding Brodix to the mix. Your excellent at spending my money Richard (least I'll get what I pay for). SBC FTW!
Time and time again, a quality as cast head from a name brand will outshine a Chinese casting CNC head. This was awesome Richard.
I wanna see the AFR enforcer 195 as cast for the low buck option.
I was just thinking the same thing
@camaroguy 66 Darren Morgan is the man. Now employed @ MAST
@@grandmasmalibu Brodix has a well deserved reputation.....
@@GroovesAndLands REALLY?? That's like Mickey Mantle playing for Boston!!!!
Me too
Subs are getting up there Richard. Hope everything is safe with you and Your family due to the Wildlifes. Thanks for all the content. You are doing an Awesome thing for all us car Guys. Cheers. 👍
I would like to see a comparison between the dart SHP the brodix IK and the new as cast afr enforcer head.
How much did the springs add to the Speedmaster heads? Seems like that would narrow the price gap quite a bit.
chris goller also worry about long term street usage .... dubious reputation 👁👅👁
@@badstimpy Who has dubious reputation, Street Master or Brodix?
Spring run about 100-200 roughly
@@cfmechanic More for a good quality roller spring
Literally just finished the new Project Farm video and now Holdener released his only 11 minutes ago.
Hilarious...I just watched the battery test and then came here too.
Same here.
Lmfao same here
x200
I'm sure there's a good amount of crossover in viewership. I did the same thing!
Liked before I even watched. U never disappoint!
Air flow Research ! Spend high dollars once and make big power all the time!
Good video. You got me thinking though. What about a valve degree shootout? 19* vs 23* and so on? Same cc's, just different valve angles? I think it'd be cool.
The lower valve angles normally have much bigger port size to support several hundred more horsepower
@camaroguy 66 Richard's channel is all about 12 degree heads, that is what the LS has and he does at least one LS video a year.. lol. Pontiac engines have a 14 degree inclination angle from the factory after 1967. Its only high end race stuff when you talk about the sbc. Its stock stuff for better engines.
@@biggregsparks8364 you can also get a smaller open chamber with less valve shrouding with a shallow angle, with shallow valve reliefs in the pistons, better flame control/pattern with the increased compression. It allows a flat top piston, and the small chamber with a bigger valve. ref the LS and Pontiac engines with 12 and 14 respectively. You can make 13:1 with a factory head and a flat top piston on a Pontiac, only milling .030" from the head. The low/mid lift flow where the valve spends the most time is much better with the shallow valve angles, like in the LS head. the Pontiac does well too, but you'll have a hard time finding as much info as is available for the LS.
As it happens both the Pontiac and LS have high velocity long runner port designs, which makes them both enjoy bottom end torque the sbc can't match, and also allows them to make power to 6500 easily.. well the 350-428 Pontiacs can, the 455 doesn't get enough air to rev to 6500 with factory heads. The 455 and larger will rev higher with aftermarket heads that flow more air, and they still make crazy torque at the bottom.
At least the SB2 style stuff makes decent power, but man is it expensive and requires lots of special parts.
@@SweatyFatGuy been wanting to see what I could find reasonable in 18 degree for a BBC, im loving how cheap LS makes my old Dinosaur 🦕
@@ShawnGilbert1967 compared to the sbc and bbc the LS is absolutely wonderfully amazing. So much power with so little effort and its a lot cheaper than a bbc build.
Thats why I went with a mild cam in a junk yard 6.0 with free 706 heads for my 76 C10. The sbc was a pathetic dog that drank gas, the bbc was even worse and used far more fuel. The closest I can get to the power I had in that truck from a 400 Pontiac is the LS. Probably down on torque from idle to 5000rpm compared to the Pontiac, but vastly better than the orange lumps.
Why not just put a Pontiac back in? I need the engines I have for vehicles I am building, GTOs, Trans Ams, Formulas, a Ventura, an Opel GT.. have two of those Opels, one is getting a cammed 5.3, both are getting tube chassis to make it simple.
I get 5.3s given to me all the time. The parts to put them in other vehicles cost more but you get so much more out of one of those compared to the chevy engines.
To me building a chevy and putting it in one of my vehicles is going backwards. The stock stuff for an LS is dirt cheap, mostly. I want an aluminum 6.0 block for my 98 Formula, throw a 4" crank in it and have a Formula 400.
Being a Pontiac guy I like the mix and match ability of the LS too, its almost as good as the Pontiac compatibility. I get a lot more power from my Pontiacs for a lot less money, and all the factory stuff works with it, so I won't be dropping LS engines in my GTOs and stuff any time soon. I like that 500 to 600ftlbs from idle to 5000rpm too much.
Definitely go the extra cash. Thats a huge difference over the whole power band. Great work. Keep it up. Have a great day
Absolutely yes
The difference between 1400 or 1800 dollars is damn near 50 horsepower and 40ft/lbs. A momentary punch in the wallet is absolutely worth a gigantic smile punching the gas pedal for years to come
Hell yes the power is worth it! That's power is always there, pure geometry.
As-cast heads give you two main benefits:
-- More thickness where a CNC program may thin out certain castings.
-- You typically end up with a valve guide that hasn't been machined, so its structure will likely be better.
I have always heard the the Speedmaster heads use lower end valves, retainers and guides. You seem to have verified that by having to upgrade the springs. So his much did the spring upgrade cost so we kind the full cost of the Speedmaster vs the Brodix.
You are CORRECT.
The spring to lite for the cam. Its not that they're junk !
Speedmaster & Procomp = rubbish
It's not that they are junk lol when you buy a head you buy it to match whatever cam you're running and in this instance they just bought heads without providing information so the speed master heads was set up for a smaller cam possibly a stock cam and I've never owned speed master but from the people I know who run them don't have any issues with them they are a budget head and as with anything ( you get exactly what you pay for )
AFR hardware isn't much to brag about....I don't know what they use now but, when the 195 Eliminator series 1st came out....Mine had KAR valves from India!
Very interesting comparison and as usual great information. Would love to see a test on the AFR as cast series heads in the future. Keep up the great content!
Definitely worth the extra $400!!! Thanks as always Richard!
Great content, Richard! As others have said, an exact CNC copy of a crummy port is not worth much. You get what you pay for and I add Buy American!
Agree....port size, valve size of those cnc speedmaster is a joke.
Have a set here at home (not speedmaster nor usa) doing at least the same with a waaay smaller port and 2.02 valve
Great video again Richo. Brodix heads are Absolutely worth a few hundred dollars more !
Still love you to be the FIRST on UA-cam to do some comparisons / test / vs with sbc Edrlbrock Victor Junior heads . No one has and I can’t understand why ?!?
I have tested Vic Jr Ford heads
Richard Holdener can you send a link please ? Have searched for years to no avail . Surprised nobody has tested them independently 👁👅👁 for sbc
I feel with better intake, big solid roller, more rpms, probably another point or two on compression and at least 1 7/8 headers and you would have yourself an ls killer 😉. Nice build
I am thinking of replacing my 113 heads on my 383 with a set of Brodix raceright heads this winter, this video gives me more thoughts.
I run a set of Dragonslayers on my .040 over 400sbc flat top bracket motor 630 roller HVH Brodix intake 950 carb. Made 614 hp 586 tq. Fantastic heads right out of the box!
I would definitely buy the Brodix heads. I think another interesting test would have been to slap on an Edelbrock air gap intake and see the bottom end pick up vs the high end loss. May be worth going with the air gap for a street vehicle. Also, would like to see you do a 427 SBC vs 427 BBC with same compression, same series heads, same series camshaft and see what the differences are. I will bet the BBC edges it out slightly.
I can tell you for a fact you gotta port a air gap to go on ik200s. The casting quality on the brodix head was way better than all the others I checked out.
theory of air gap vs feeling a difference in the butt dyno...buy what you can afford doubt youll feel a thing otherwise. Intakes make less of a difference than most would guess.
Man I wish someone would do something like this with the Skip White NKB SBF Heads. Finding any actual info on them that isn’t opinion driven is hard.
getting afr results will not happen with chinesium skipp white/dna cheapo heads
400 bucks for 100 more hp? Yeah ill take that
Absolutely a bargain. I've seen other tests here and there where folks spend hundreds to get another 25 hp.
More like a 53hp increase not 100hp but still worth the extra cost...
@@hot355clubby $8 per HP gained. I think dollars spent vs HP gained on different parts would be an interesting comparison video
Exactly not only more peak power but everywhere. Its definitely worth the extra cost. If I didnt have enough I would just wait and save up more until I did.
Yes , those Brodix heads would definitely be worth the extra cost, in my opinion. The amount of gains in the lower rpm range is huge .Thanks Buck from Ky
Richard - great video once again. How about Summit and/or Blueprint VS AFR and/or all of the above VS each other....? Might be beating a dead horse, but why not.... LOL
The supplied springs with the Brodix heads were up to the job? If so, it's a no-brainer. Thanks for the comparison Richard. I do not dabble in SBC stuff much anymore, but wow, we are in a golden age aren't we?
This is why I picked the Brodix heads for my engine. Figure I can always CNC them later when it's time for another upgrade. Can't really do that with the other heads without replacing them.
You CANNOT beat cylinder head airflow! Period! Hence the reason I love square port LS heads! 300+ CFM STOCK! And great increases when their ported. Especially on the exhaust side...
@@hendo337 I was referring to just the factory heads. Since I'm doing a semi budget build, that's the route I'm taking. If money was no object, I'd go with AFR for sure. Maybe after I scatter this setup. Lol
@@hendo337 you made great points, but I'm with this guy. I prefer work over L92 heads, than investing into my 317 or any other factory cathedral port heads
hendo337 yeah I hand ported a set of 706s, for my ls1 and 6.0 small valve is happier up high, as long as it still flows not to mention the extra compression, the hand ported 706s have a killer torque curve and makes fantastic average power from 3-7000 rpm
@@crw3673 #AMEN
hendo337 that will get the job done
Where the 292 gone! I'm having withdrawals....lol!
It depends on the application. If I wanted more power for a pickup or something of that nature I would probably go with the cheaper heads. If I was building an engine for a sleeper or something of that nature I would go with the more expensive heads.
Thanks Richard, you helped with head choice decision, dragon slayer all day.
Yes yes yes...out the box with acceptable springs...as cast...yes. I have yet to build a healthy small block, but one think is obvious...heads are the key. I haven't ever had the power the speed master heads created, but it would be wise to step up all things considered. This is information I can use.
I would fork over the extra for 2 reasons. 1 the extra power top end was significant. 2 both HP & TQ were up the whole time.
You have any comparison videos of edelbrock heads vs any other?
You should do a shoot out on the pro Maxx heads they are a good low buck option, but would be interested to see how they perform on a set up like this.
look at Eric Wiengartener racing heads channel, he has done the pro maxx head reviews and flows.
Would be curious to see the difference in a set of older good cast heads, like dart or world sportsman 2's compared to these heads. I'm sure there's a big difference, question is, how much and where.
It depends on the cam that you select. The more aggressive the cam profile, the bigger the difference between the performance of the 2 heads. Having said that, I would probably go with the more expensive heads. If you're going to do the work of doing the head swap, you're better off spending a little more money.
I would like to see what the CNC ported version of the Brodix dragon slayer heads did on the dyno. to compare the Ported vs no Ported versions and the cost. I would also like to see what a basic home sanding roll cleanup to the ports on the dragon slayer head would do for flow. that's more flow bench testing than dyno testing. but it would be neat to see.
Personally I would spend the extra 400 on the Brodix head. 1. it made more power and 2. you know it is a quality head. Speed Master is just the new name for the Chinese made ProComp heads. I know some guys that like them, and I know a few engine builders that hate them. the guys I know that like them are the DIY guys that are just looking for a cheap head. the guys i know that hate them are all professional engine rebuilders that tell me the quality control on the fully assembled heads is crap, mainly valve seats out of round, loose guides, pushrod guide plates that don't line up with the valves, etc. I have been told the bare casting itself is OK, but it needs to have a competent machine shop finish and assemble them. to me I would just rather buy a assembled head from a manufacturer with a proven track record like Brodix, AFR, Edelbrock, Trick Flo, or Dart. you would be money ahead to start with.
How much extra for the set of Comp spring upgrade? That would ad to the cost of the ProComp heads narrowing the difference in cost. Great content. Thanks.
Can you test the ProMaxx Shocker heads? The numbers look really good I'm curious if they are real.
their BBC and Ford heads have been tested-they work well
@@richardholdener1727 Good to know. Thanks
I punch a clock in a manufacturing facility...
yeah... low buck is my game ;-)
I used to work in a factory as a machinist, as a mechanic in my shop, and also did military time which resulted in me not having to/being allowed to work anymore, but having a rather small fixed income. So lots of cool skills and time, not much money. Low buck is the only way I can do things. I like to go fast, which is why I go with big engines that make tons of torque under 6000rpm. It costs a lot less to have fun being able to use the 2.73 or 3.08 gears that are already in the car.
Thump Er thank you for your service and sacrifice sir!
Do a test using the NKB heads that skip white performance sells. They claim the valves , springs, retainers are from comp cams
Thanks Richard, great video. Could you dyno the DragonSlayer vs the AFR 195 Competition SBC cylinder heads?
I always spent every dime I could on the heads then whatever was left over went to the short block.
Its a Good practice imo
@@johnsheetz6639 until u break a rod or crank from spending so much on heads you had to use lower cost parts in short block
@@bigsean2473 Factory forged crank and rods should handle 550HP @ 6800 ALL day long and twice on Sunday, no problem!!!
@@Anarchy-Is-Liberty there is not many factory forged crank and rod in engines you pull from you car or thre junk yard. most are cast. so if you blow budget on heads you stuck with the cast factory parts
@@bigsean2473 Most say GM rods are forged not cast. Upgrade rod bolts they hold up to plenty of abuse
Would like to see this tes done on a 400 sbc, with dart Pro 1 230, Rhs 235, Afr 235, and dragon slayer plus any top head suppliers I've missed out and around 650 to 675 valve lift. Cheers
Coming from someone that spent only 895$ on promaxx heads, yea the power is worth the extra 400ish dollars. I like my heads though and for the price I feel like they are a better buy than the cnc speedmasters.
The Promaxx stuff worked well in my testing
@@richardholdener1727 how would they stack up to the speedmasters from this test do you think?
I’m watching on the edge of my seat as I’m seriously considering the DS365 for my 598 build...
I made 580hp NA with 357ci and 308cfm 220cc heads, 274/278@.050, 668/669 lift, 106 lobe sep. Run 10.40s in the 1/4 @ 3200lbs.
Nice set up Dude. If you don't mind me asking, What transmission and rear gear did you use. Cheers
@@MJTAUTOMOTIVE manual valvebody T-400 with a 5500 stall BTE 8 inch converter, 5-13 gear on a spool in a 12-bolt. 29.5x11.5 M/T slicks.
@@thereluctantgearhead4544 . Dude That sounds like a very nasty setup. Thanks for letting me know. My engine has just over 500hp but the car is a little heavy at the moment. But I think I should be able to get to around your vehicles weight.
Cheers.
@@MJTAUTOMOTIVE light is might....
@@MJTAUTOMOTIVE Gears fix a lot of that in heavy cars.
I would like to see the comparison from the promaxx 220cc head vs the speedmasters cnc head. About 500$ cheaper.
I have checked the dragon slayer heads out before in the shop. I love them. I think they are well worth the cost.
Yeah soon as I heard "Brodix" I didn't need to hear anything more....... of course they did great.
I knew it wasn't 'low buck'
...
Was actually my exact thought
I would like to see you test a pair of DNA aluminum 200 cc heads from Amazon on a SBC just to see how good or bad they really are.
Richard do something with profiler heads ! The are cheep for money and good flow numbers ? What do think about these heads?
Damn nice results for basically a near 70 year old design. 50 horses for $400? Sign me up!!
I would like to see a comparison between the Dragon Slayer head, AFR 215s and Darts SHP 200 head. I have the SHP 200s on a 383 and would really like to know what I could gain with the better heads.
I would like to see a cost and performance comparison between this head and a Chevy Vortec head that has been cleaned up and has new springs and rockers, etc, so it is comparable to the Speedmaster in terms of condition.
This is much better than a Vortec head
Put up videos of the dyno pulls! I love to hear those small blocks scream!
UNFORTUNATELY DON'T HAVE DYNO RUNS OF THESE EARLIER TESTS
I love my dragon slayers. Although I have had them fully ported as well as install exhaust valve seals as the dragon slayer is prepped for only race so those seals are not included
I would like to see a dyno comparison between stock 862 and home ported heads on a stock 5.3 with a sloppy stage 2 cam and PAC 1218 springs. Just do a basic port. Clean up the bowl, casting flash, and the rocker stud lump in the intake port. Also use stock valves on both tests.
Good video to point out that marketing tricks people into thinking only the latest and greatest tech always is best. If you don't know what your doing the best CNC machines in the world won't help...
For most, it's never enough and $3-400 doesn't seem outrageous for the possibility of future growth. I imagine they'll (the brodix) will support mo powa(baby) and not require an upgrade next season when you decide that it's not enough.
I'm struggling with turbo choices currently, I don't want to select an overly large unit and lose too much streetability , but I am very concious of the fact that I will definitely want more.
The eternal question,
"Speed cost,
How fast do you wanna go"?
I'd look to the better head, the incremental cost for the good boost across the board is very attractive.
Is it really 400 extra when you have to buy better valve springs because the speedmaster ones are garbage?
Absolutely, the extra cost of the Brodix heads is worth it (at least on this combo). You're talking about 50 hp for $400, what other mod can you buy for $400 that will make an additional 50 hp? Also, as stated, the upgraded spring package cuts into that price savings, too. Whats 235cc intake ports good for if the cam can't be over 550"?
l would love to see these up against a AFR head as well. Why dose no one use the Victor jr heads in tests also?
Edelbrock is just paying for a name anymore
Whit all these test you have done with is your go to head gasket
fel pro
I’ve got a 78 long bed with a 355 procomp heads comp 273xe roller rpm air gap speedmaster rods and kB hyperutectic flat tops and it produced about the same power curve just about 30 hp and tq less really fun combo with 2500 stall and 4.56 gears on 31s
Having a link bar lifter limit the valve lift? Curious if it will or not...thank you for the informative videos
it does not
@@richardholdener1727 Kool...thank you
I have a 383 short block with eagle forged internals at 10.2 compression with 64cc heads that I had built. I am putting it in my 84 chevy c10 pickup. I would like more torque than the 350/330hp crate motor that is in it now. The truck has 3.73 limited slip, 2500 stall with a 350 tranny. I would like to know your opinion on the best combo with a hydraulic flat tappet cam and heads that would be very streetable. I hear so many suggestions from people so it has been very confusing to say the least.I have seen too many people put too big of a cam in there motors that were not very good compared to a perfectly matched cam and heads. I have a magnum comp cam 230/480 in my shop which is not real radical but I don't have to use it if you think what would be the best combo for a torque monster that is streetable to move this 4200lbs truck. The crate motor now is peppy but I want more torque. I will not be turning more than 5500 rpm on my 383. Hope you can give me some ideas with all your experience. Thank you. Great videos.
The CompXE268H is a good choice-TFS super 23 or AFR 195 heads work well
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you Richard, I will check out this combo.
Man wish this was done on a 350 for us stock guys
The brodix head's are better in every way awesome comparison to show it's worth the extra money
Great video !!!! Would the 383 Chevy be a great starting point to add a blower or a tunnel ram? With high flowing heads also.
Yes and yes
I would have liked to see this same combo but done on a 406 sbc. If you're going to run a small block Chevy, might as well be the biggest production small block out there!! There is no replacement for displacement!
Have seen a ton of Blueprint short blocks and crate motors on here but it would be cool to check out some of their aluminum heads like the HP8103 on this 383 for another budget option.
Hey Richard, love your videos! I'm curious if you have a combo for a 450+ hp 350ci SBC street motor. If so, I'd love to see it!
The Brodix heads are definitely worth the extra money. That is a lot of extra power gains for the price difference.
If you work in America you should consider buying made in America when you can
it's not like you buy heads and intake every time you build one
I'll spend a little extra for an American made part
Have you made a video from your test with the composite SBC intake manifolds yet (AFR if I recall correctly)? I didn't find it, but was hoping you had made one.
we have tested the AFR composite intake
It would be hard to give up the money for those dragon slayer heads but for a 406 or 383 with a heavy cam definitely
Wanna see a comparison on the edelbrock heads vs others for the 351w
Can you have too much cylinder head? Like what would happen if you ran a smaller camshaft. Something streetable.
It's a difference of over .50 per HP at peak. Now I think the $400 is well spent looking at the area under the curve.
Making some assumptions on a standard 450-500 horsepower 383 (everything but the heads costing around $6k) the CNC head build costs $15.01/horsepower while the Brodix head build costs $14.60/horsepower. Seems like the Brodix equipped motor has a 3% better cost per horsepower
You should have run them against a set of Profiler heads. They are fairly budget minded.
I know they’re pricey, but have you tested canted, splayed-valve heads with the LS valve order? Combine that with the firing order change, 4/7 swap, tested on Engine Masters.
I am curious if you have ever tested the 366 BB Chevy I have several stull running. I'm thinking about a older tow rig. Not a race car. Torque and maybe increase HP to 310 or 320...
I have not run the tall deck bbc motors
@@richardholdener1727 If you do I will watch...great content!
Is spending the money for cylinders heads the produce more power worth the expence . Absolutely . In my option a great set of heads enables you to run less camshaft and still make good power .
What gets me is the brodex are already cast out ! Should be more lower cost than cnc heads ?
Should probably take into consideration the price for upgrading the springs
is there a good way to quantify area under the curve and it's effect on et. does the 20hp ish increase between 3.5-5k mean more or less than the 40-50ish between 5-6.5k. im guessing with less power the car takes longer to sweep through the first half of the rev range, especially in lower gears at least until the wind resistance fires up in top gear. Thanks for the great content.
Hey Richard I'd like to see the NKB Chevy eBay heads done they're supposed to flow better than the speedmaster head and are supposed to be made out of better aluminum
That's interesting because the Brodix DS 225 heads advertise 300+CFM on the intake but just 210 CFM @0.700" life on exhaust. So they under performed on intake flow and over performed on exhaust, the last of which I believe is a lot more important than most people think.
they didn't under perform on the intake-just flow test method difference
@@richardholdener1727 I understand what you are saying. It was a criticism of the Brodix heads. I found it interesting that the intake numbers were lower but the exhaust numbers were higher. It would be interesting to test how much exhaust flow effects horsepower production? In one of your head tests it appeared that the heads that flowed better on the exhaust while having comparable intake flow produced more power. Data is data therefore the heads did underperform compared to the numbers given by Brodix unless Brodix supplied exact dimensions of the bore size on which they tested. I do understand your concern trying to not knock a good head however if they are going to supply the flow numbers they should supply all testing parameters.
This lines up pretty well with my 385 coming in at 600hp at 10.83:1 and a custom designed Bullet racing solid roller with .666/.645 etc etc. I have dragon slayer's with a Holley strip dominator and custom built prosystems 950. Hell of a pump gas street/strip engine. 6" procomp rods, cola crank, probe forged pistons. Should handle up to a 200 shot on top but with the moly rings I'll never go over 150 if I ever spray it at all. Thinking about pulling them and sending them to Chad speire and having his cnc program done. That program gets just over 330 at .600 :o)
What is the LSA on the stick? Obviously you had more since than Richard, not knowing I would guess 108 or 109????
@@danieljames5875 Sorry it's a year later. Just happened back upon this video lol. My cam has a 106 LSA, 666/645, duration at 050 is 255/263. Bullet cams grind number CHS 288/297-09R. Fantastic street/strip solid roller. I used Morel solid bushing lifters. Lifter's were like $1100. I did not want a failed needle nearing grenading my fresh build.
@@prostreetcamaro Was it installed straight up?
You should do some mass heads tests in group price format. For $1k see what heads do the best, for $1500, $2k and beyond lol. Guaranteed to keep attention. Same for LS aftermarket or Ported stock heads aligned by price as well with their similar priced aftermarket versions.
When you are into something $1400 deep whats another $400? Plus its 100 hp