If you really think about it, the Brodix heads were probably only about $200 more expensive after the spring upgrade to the Procomps... And the Brodix casting quality is far superior to the Chinesium Procomp heads... The Brodix deck thickness is thicker which means more stable and less distortion... And as always USA made is the better way to go!
Absolutely yes The difference between 1400 or 1800 dollars is damn near 50 horsepower and 40ft/lbs. A momentary punch in the wallet is absolutely worth a gigantic smile punching the gas pedal for years to come
Exactly not only more peak power but everywhere. Its definitely worth the extra cost. If I didnt have enough I would just wait and save up more until I did.
Awesome test !! Thank you. I just bought a pair of these Brodix heads. I’m on a big buy American campaign. Great to see the dyno result. Way worth the money! My project is a Freiburger style, tunnel ram 374. (4.125 bore. 3.500 stroke) in a ‘62 Corvette drag car. Hoping for 550hp. Low 10’s.
Same here always have. Ported a set of Proheads (dart copys) sbc head Numbers were as good as and in some ways better than a pro ported set of 230Darts...Cant bring myself to put the chinese stuff on my car. Seats and guides are crap quality in comparison
SBC stuff thanks. Plan on freshening my 358ci sbc this winter (my 492 angle plug heads are massively ported, intakes port matched too), everyone says I'll pick up a bunch with modern heads ,if finances allow still thinking Pro-Filer, AFR heads,now adding Brodix to the mix. Your excellent at spending my money Richard (least I'll get what I pay for). SBC FTW!
Subs are getting up there Richard. Hope everything is safe with you and Your family due to the Wildlifes. Thanks for all the content. You are doing an Awesome thing for all us car Guys. Cheers. 👍
Hell yes the power is worth it! That's power is always there, pure geometry. As-cast heads give you two main benefits: -- More thickness where a CNC program may thin out certain castings. -- You typically end up with a valve guide that hasn't been machined, so its structure will likely be better.
Good video. You got me thinking though. What about a valve degree shootout? 19* vs 23* and so on? Same cc's, just different valve angles? I think it'd be cool.
@camaroguy 66 Richard's channel is all about 12 degree heads, that is what the LS has and he does at least one LS video a year.. lol. Pontiac engines have a 14 degree inclination angle from the factory after 1967. Its only high end race stuff when you talk about the sbc. Its stock stuff for better engines.
@@biggregsparks8364 you can also get a smaller open chamber with less valve shrouding with a shallow angle, with shallow valve reliefs in the pistons, better flame control/pattern with the increased compression. It allows a flat top piston, and the small chamber with a bigger valve. ref the LS and Pontiac engines with 12 and 14 respectively. You can make 13:1 with a factory head and a flat top piston on a Pontiac, only milling .030" from the head. The low/mid lift flow where the valve spends the most time is much better with the shallow valve angles, like in the LS head. the Pontiac does well too, but you'll have a hard time finding as much info as is available for the LS. As it happens both the Pontiac and LS have high velocity long runner port designs, which makes them both enjoy bottom end torque the sbc can't match, and also allows them to make power to 6500 easily.. well the 350-428 Pontiacs can, the 455 doesn't get enough air to rev to 6500 with factory heads. The 455 and larger will rev higher with aftermarket heads that flow more air, and they still make crazy torque at the bottom. At least the SB2 style stuff makes decent power, but man is it expensive and requires lots of special parts.
@@ShawnGilbert1967 compared to the sbc and bbc the LS is absolutely wonderfully amazing. So much power with so little effort and its a lot cheaper than a bbc build. Thats why I went with a mild cam in a junk yard 6.0 with free 706 heads for my 76 C10. The sbc was a pathetic dog that drank gas, the bbc was even worse and used far more fuel. The closest I can get to the power I had in that truck from a 400 Pontiac is the LS. Probably down on torque from idle to 5000rpm compared to the Pontiac, but vastly better than the orange lumps. Why not just put a Pontiac back in? I need the engines I have for vehicles I am building, GTOs, Trans Ams, Formulas, a Ventura, an Opel GT.. have two of those Opels, one is getting a cammed 5.3, both are getting tube chassis to make it simple. I get 5.3s given to me all the time. The parts to put them in other vehicles cost more but you get so much more out of one of those compared to the chevy engines. To me building a chevy and putting it in one of my vehicles is going backwards. The stock stuff for an LS is dirt cheap, mostly. I want an aluminum 6.0 block for my 98 Formula, throw a 4" crank in it and have a Formula 400. Being a Pontiac guy I like the mix and match ability of the LS too, its almost as good as the Pontiac compatibility. I get a lot more power from my Pontiacs for a lot less money, and all the factory stuff works with it, so I won't be dropping LS engines in my GTOs and stuff any time soon. I like that 500 to 600ftlbs from idle to 5000rpm too much.
I have always heard the the Speedmaster heads use lower end valves, retainers and guides. You seem to have verified that by having to upgrade the springs. So his much did the spring upgrade cost so we kind the full cost of the Speedmaster vs the Brodix.
It's not that they are junk lol when you buy a head you buy it to match whatever cam you're running and in this instance they just bought heads without providing information so the speed master heads was set up for a smaller cam possibly a stock cam and I've never owned speed master but from the people I know who run them don't have any issues with them they are a budget head and as with anything ( you get exactly what you pay for )
AFR hardware isn't much to brag about....I don't know what they use now but, when the 195 Eliminator series 1st came out....Mine had KAR valves from India!
@@Anarchy-Is-Liberty there is not many factory forged crank and rod in engines you pull from you car or thre junk yard. most are cast. so if you blow budget on heads you stuck with the cast factory parts
I run a set of Dragonslayers on my .040 over 400sbc flat top bracket motor 630 roller HVH Brodix intake 950 carb. Made 614 hp 586 tq. Fantastic heads right out of the box!
You CANNOT beat cylinder head airflow! Period! Hence the reason I love square port LS heads! 300+ CFM STOCK! And great increases when their ported. Especially on the exhaust side...
@@hendo337 I was referring to just the factory heads. Since I'm doing a semi budget build, that's the route I'm taking. If money was no object, I'd go with AFR for sure. Maybe after I scatter this setup. Lol
@@hendo337 you made great points, but I'm with this guy. I prefer work over L92 heads, than investing into my 317 or any other factory cathedral port heads
hendo337 yeah I hand ported a set of 706s, for my ls1 and 6.0 small valve is happier up high, as long as it still flows not to mention the extra compression, the hand ported 706s have a killer torque curve and makes fantastic average power from 3-7000 rpm
I would definitely buy the Brodix heads. I think another interesting test would have been to slap on an Edelbrock air gap intake and see the bottom end pick up vs the high end loss. May be worth going with the air gap for a street vehicle. Also, would like to see you do a 427 SBC vs 427 BBC with same compression, same series heads, same series camshaft and see what the differences are. I will bet the BBC edges it out slightly.
I can tell you for a fact you gotta port a air gap to go on ik200s. The casting quality on the brodix head was way better than all the others I checked out.
theory of air gap vs feeling a difference in the butt dyno...buy what you can afford doubt youll feel a thing otherwise. Intakes make less of a difference than most would guess.
I used to work in a factory as a machinist, as a mechanic in my shop, and also did military time which resulted in me not having to/being allowed to work anymore, but having a rather small fixed income. So lots of cool skills and time, not much money. Low buck is the only way I can do things. I like to go fast, which is why I go with big engines that make tons of torque under 6000rpm. It costs a lot less to have fun being able to use the 2.73 or 3.08 gears that are already in the car.
I feel with better intake, big solid roller, more rpms, probably another point or two on compression and at least 1 7/8 headers and you would have yourself an ls killer 😉. Nice build
Yes yes yes...out the box with acceptable springs...as cast...yes. I have yet to build a healthy small block, but one think is obvious...heads are the key. I haven't ever had the power the speed master heads created, but it would be wise to step up all things considered. This is information I can use.
Very interesting comparison and as usual great information. Would love to see a test on the AFR as cast series heads in the future. Keep up the great content!
It depends on the application. If I wanted more power for a pickup or something of that nature I would probably go with the cheaper heads. If I was building an engine for a sleeper or something of that nature I would go with the more expensive heads.
Agree....port size, valve size of those cnc speedmaster is a joke. Have a set here at home (not speedmaster nor usa) doing at least the same with a waaay smaller port and 2.02 valve
This is why I picked the Brodix heads for my engine. Figure I can always CNC them later when it's time for another upgrade. Can't really do that with the other heads without replacing them.
It’s not only the airflow and the HP but the quality of the components in the head. Also wonder just how flat the deck surfaces are on the cheap heads? Will they have to be surfaced? I hear Speedmaster uses cheap retainers, springs and guided. Richard had to upgrade the springs. How much did that add to the cost?
@@thereluctantgearhead4544 . Dude That sounds like a very nasty setup. Thanks for letting me know. My engine has just over 500hp but the car is a little heavy at the moment. But I think I should be able to get to around your vehicles weight. Cheers.
I would like to see what the CNC ported version of the Brodix dragon slayer heads did on the dyno. to compare the Ported vs no Ported versions and the cost. I would also like to see what a basic home sanding roll cleanup to the ports on the dragon slayer head would do for flow. that's more flow bench testing than dyno testing. but it would be neat to see. Personally I would spend the extra 400 on the Brodix head. 1. it made more power and 2. you know it is a quality head. Speed Master is just the new name for the Chinese made ProComp heads. I know some guys that like them, and I know a few engine builders that hate them. the guys I know that like them are the DIY guys that are just looking for a cheap head. the guys i know that hate them are all professional engine rebuilders that tell me the quality control on the fully assembled heads is crap, mainly valve seats out of round, loose guides, pushrod guide plates that don't line up with the valves, etc. I have been told the bare casting itself is OK, but it needs to have a competent machine shop finish and assemble them. to me I would just rather buy a assembled head from a manufacturer with a proven track record like Brodix, AFR, Edelbrock, Trick Flo, or Dart. you would be money ahead to start with.
You should do a shoot out on the pro Maxx heads they are a good low buck option, but would be interested to see how they perform on a set up like this.
It depends on the cam that you select. The more aggressive the cam profile, the bigger the difference between the performance of the 2 heads. Having said that, I would probably go with the more expensive heads. If you're going to do the work of doing the head swap, you're better off spending a little more money.
Coming from someone that spent only 895$ on promaxx heads, yea the power is worth the extra 400ish dollars. I like my heads though and for the price I feel like they are a better buy than the cnc speedmasters.
If you work in America you should consider buying made in America when you can it's not like you buy heads and intake every time you build one I'll spend a little extra for an American made part
Is spending the money for cylinders heads the produce more power worth the expence . Absolutely . In my option a great set of heads enables you to run less camshaft and still make good power .
Would be curious to see the difference in a set of older good cast heads, like dart or world sportsman 2's compared to these heads. I'm sure there's a big difference, question is, how much and where.
Still love you to be the FIRST on UA-cam to do some comparisons / test / vs with sbc Edrlbrock Victor Junior heads . No one has and I can’t understand why ?!?
Good video to point out that marketing tricks people into thinking only the latest and greatest tech always is best. If you don't know what your doing the best CNC machines in the world won't help...
Would like to see this tes done on a 400 sbc, with dart Pro 1 230, Rhs 235, Afr 235, and dragon slayer plus any top head suppliers I've missed out and around 650 to 675 valve lift. Cheers
I never feel sorry for any one buying Chinese copy’s of someone’s heads , intake , cams ,etc , not only will the performance be down but heat treating , valves and seats will be subpar , only cheap deals are used parts/engines that weren’t built to be cheap to start with .
The supplied springs with the Brodix heads were up to the job? If so, it's a no-brainer. Thanks for the comparison Richard. I do not dabble in SBC stuff much anymore, but wow, we are in a golden age aren't we?
They might be a touch large for a 383, and better suited for a build in the 406-427 range? I was thinking the 210cc Iron Killers ["wild thing"] might be better.
@@flinch622 he literally just used a 383 striker and it made awesome power. They are perfect for a 383. Would be even more power if a 600+ lift solid roller cam was used.
Richard - great video once again. How about Summit and/or Blueprint VS AFR and/or all of the above VS each other....? Might be beating a dead horse, but why not.... LOL
I love my dragon slayers. Although I have had them fully ported as well as install exhaust valve seals as the dragon slayer is prepped for only race so those seals are not included
I’ve got a 78 long bed with a 355 procomp heads comp 273xe roller rpm air gap speedmaster rods and kB hyperutectic flat tops and it produced about the same power curve just about 30 hp and tq less really fun combo with 2500 stall and 4.56 gears on 31s
You just have to do your homework. Years ago, when I was just out of highschool, I bought a set of then Patriot Heads (now Promaxx) based on an article in Hot Rod Magazine where they flow benched a bunch of heads and were surprised to find the Patriot heads out flowed some of the more expensive heads (though not all) all the way up to .600 lift. I put a pair on my 383 at the time and they worked really well. The only problem I had with them was, after I put a big solid roller cam and blower I upgraded the valve springs accordingly and eventually broke two of the rocker arm studs which I didn't know at the time were pretty inadequate for that much spring. I put in larger studs and never had a problem with those heads again (sold it a few years ago). Now since Patriot became Promaxx I can't speak of the quality of their parts but I haven't heard anything overtly negative about them in spite of still being Chinese heads. And I realize there is some junk out there. To each his own. I also generally prefer to stay away from that stuff now but mostly because I have a much bigger budget for race car stuff then I did in high school.
I would like to see a cost and performance comparison between this head and a Chevy Vortec head that has been cleaned up and has new springs and rockers, etc, so it is comparable to the Speedmaster in terms of condition.
How much extra for the set of Comp spring upgrade? That would ad to the cost of the ProComp heads narrowing the difference in cost. Great content. Thanks.
I've never had success with speedmaster/procomp parts. After being burned by their junk several times I will not buy any of their products any more. Once I bought a set of fabricated valve covers thinking "what could go wrong?", had to file the bolt holes and weld the sealing edge as it didnt fit the OEM head gasket face. Their after sales support has been atrocious too. As shown here, stick with the good brand name products, they may be a little more expensive but at least your not buying cheap Chinese junk. Given the amount of damage a dropped valve can cause I would never trust the quality of their springs or valves, probably all made from recycled chinese bicycles ????
For most, it's never enough and $3-400 doesn't seem outrageous for the possibility of future growth. I imagine they'll (the brodix) will support mo powa(baby) and not require an upgrade next season when you decide that it's not enough. I'm struggling with turbo choices currently, I don't want to select an overly large unit and lose too much streetability , but I am very concious of the fact that I will definitely want more. The eternal question, "Speed cost, How fast do you wanna go"?
Hello Mr.Holdener I get it. Believe me I get. This is not an attack on you. Many many people will buy the least expensive what ever. Automotive parts etc etc. Never stopping to think why they can only afford the chinesium product. Because they keep buying chinesium! If those same people saved just a little bit longer they could afford products made in the USA. There by supporting their own economy. Their wages through their prudent spending will increase over time. Enough soap box. I do enjoy these videos. Thanks.
I would like to see a comparison between the Dragon Slayer head, AFR 215s and Darts SHP 200 head. I have the SHP 200s on a 383 and would really like to know what I could gain with the better heads.
I would have liked to see this same combo but done on a 406 sbc. If you're going to run a small block Chevy, might as well be the biggest production small block out there!! There is no replacement for displacement!
I used to work at Brodix for 3 years in Mena Arkansas.....best heads and a fine company....
If you really think about it, the Brodix heads were probably only about $200 more expensive after the spring upgrade to the Procomps... And the Brodix casting quality is far superior to the Chinesium Procomp heads... The Brodix deck thickness is thicker which means more stable and less distortion... And as always USA made is the better way to go!
How much did the springs add to the Speedmaster heads? Seems like that would narrow the price gap quite a bit.
chris goller also worry about long term street usage .... dubious reputation 👁👅👁
@@badstimpy Who has dubious reputation, Street Master or Brodix?
Spring run about 100-200 roughly
@@cfmechanic More for a good quality roller spring
Literally just finished the new Project Farm video and now Holdener released his only 11 minutes ago.
Hilarious...I just watched the battery test and then came here too.
Same here.
Lmfao same here
x200
I'm sure there's a good amount of crossover in viewership. I did the same thing!
Air flow Research ! Spend high dollars once and make big power all the time!
Absolutely yes
The difference between 1400 or 1800 dollars is damn near 50 horsepower and 40ft/lbs. A momentary punch in the wallet is absolutely worth a gigantic smile punching the gas pedal for years to come
I wanna see the AFR enforcer 195 as cast for the low buck option.
I was just thinking the same thing
@camaroguy 66 Darren Morgan is the man. Now employed @ MAST
@@grandmasmalibu Brodix has a well deserved reputation.....
@@GroovesAndLands REALLY?? That's like Mickey Mantle playing for Boston!!!!
Me too
400 bucks for 100 more hp? Yeah ill take that
Absolutely a bargain. I've seen other tests here and there where folks spend hundreds to get another 25 hp.
More like a 53hp increase not 100hp but still worth the extra cost...
@@hot355clubby $8 per HP gained. I think dollars spent vs HP gained on different parts would be an interesting comparison video
Exactly not only more peak power but everywhere. Its definitely worth the extra cost. If I didnt have enough I would just wait and save up more until I did.
Awesome test !! Thank you.
I just bought a pair of these Brodix heads. I’m on a big buy American campaign. Great to see the dyno result.
Way worth the money!
My project is a Freiburger style, tunnel ram 374. (4.125 bore. 3.500 stroke) in a ‘62 Corvette drag car. Hoping for 550hp. Low 10’s.
Same here always have. Ported a set of Proheads (dart copys) sbc head
Numbers were as good as and in some ways better than a pro ported set of 230Darts...Cant bring myself to put the chinese stuff on my car. Seats and guides are crap quality in comparison
SBC stuff thanks. Plan on freshening my 358ci sbc this winter (my 492 angle plug heads are massively ported, intakes port matched too), everyone says I'll pick up a bunch with modern heads ,if finances allow still thinking Pro-Filer, AFR heads,now adding Brodix to the mix. Your excellent at spending my money Richard (least I'll get what I pay for). SBC FTW!
I would like to see a comparison between the dart SHP the brodix IK and the new as cast afr enforcer head.
Time and time again, a quality as cast head from a name brand will outshine a Chinese casting CNC head. This was awesome Richard.
Liked before I even watched. U never disappoint!
Subs are getting up there Richard. Hope everything is safe with you and Your family due to the Wildlifes. Thanks for all the content. You are doing an Awesome thing for all us car Guys. Cheers. 👍
Where the 292 gone! I'm having withdrawals....lol!
Man I wish someone would do something like this with the Skip White NKB SBF Heads. Finding any actual info on them that isn’t opinion driven is hard.
getting afr results will not happen with chinesium skipp white/dna cheapo heads
Hell yes the power is worth it! That's power is always there, pure geometry.
As-cast heads give you two main benefits:
-- More thickness where a CNC program may thin out certain castings.
-- You typically end up with a valve guide that hasn't been machined, so its structure will likely be better.
Good video. You got me thinking though. What about a valve degree shootout? 19* vs 23* and so on? Same cc's, just different valve angles? I think it'd be cool.
The lower valve angles normally have much bigger port size to support several hundred more horsepower
@camaroguy 66 Richard's channel is all about 12 degree heads, that is what the LS has and he does at least one LS video a year.. lol. Pontiac engines have a 14 degree inclination angle from the factory after 1967. Its only high end race stuff when you talk about the sbc. Its stock stuff for better engines.
@@biggregsparks8364 you can also get a smaller open chamber with less valve shrouding with a shallow angle, with shallow valve reliefs in the pistons, better flame control/pattern with the increased compression. It allows a flat top piston, and the small chamber with a bigger valve. ref the LS and Pontiac engines with 12 and 14 respectively. You can make 13:1 with a factory head and a flat top piston on a Pontiac, only milling .030" from the head. The low/mid lift flow where the valve spends the most time is much better with the shallow valve angles, like in the LS head. the Pontiac does well too, but you'll have a hard time finding as much info as is available for the LS.
As it happens both the Pontiac and LS have high velocity long runner port designs, which makes them both enjoy bottom end torque the sbc can't match, and also allows them to make power to 6500 easily.. well the 350-428 Pontiacs can, the 455 doesn't get enough air to rev to 6500 with factory heads. The 455 and larger will rev higher with aftermarket heads that flow more air, and they still make crazy torque at the bottom.
At least the SB2 style stuff makes decent power, but man is it expensive and requires lots of special parts.
@@SweatyFatGuy been wanting to see what I could find reasonable in 18 degree for a BBC, im loving how cheap LS makes my old Dinosaur 🦕
@@ShawnGilbert1967 compared to the sbc and bbc the LS is absolutely wonderfully amazing. So much power with so little effort and its a lot cheaper than a bbc build.
Thats why I went with a mild cam in a junk yard 6.0 with free 706 heads for my 76 C10. The sbc was a pathetic dog that drank gas, the bbc was even worse and used far more fuel. The closest I can get to the power I had in that truck from a 400 Pontiac is the LS. Probably down on torque from idle to 5000rpm compared to the Pontiac, but vastly better than the orange lumps.
Why not just put a Pontiac back in? I need the engines I have for vehicles I am building, GTOs, Trans Ams, Formulas, a Ventura, an Opel GT.. have two of those Opels, one is getting a cammed 5.3, both are getting tube chassis to make it simple.
I get 5.3s given to me all the time. The parts to put them in other vehicles cost more but you get so much more out of one of those compared to the chevy engines.
To me building a chevy and putting it in one of my vehicles is going backwards. The stock stuff for an LS is dirt cheap, mostly. I want an aluminum 6.0 block for my 98 Formula, throw a 4" crank in it and have a Formula 400.
Being a Pontiac guy I like the mix and match ability of the LS too, its almost as good as the Pontiac compatibility. I get a lot more power from my Pontiacs for a lot less money, and all the factory stuff works with it, so I won't be dropping LS engines in my GTOs and stuff any time soon. I like that 500 to 600ftlbs from idle to 5000rpm too much.
I have always heard the the Speedmaster heads use lower end valves, retainers and guides. You seem to have verified that by having to upgrade the springs. So his much did the spring upgrade cost so we kind the full cost of the Speedmaster vs the Brodix.
You are CORRECT.
The spring to lite for the cam. Its not that they're junk !
Speedmaster & Procomp = rubbish
It's not that they are junk lol when you buy a head you buy it to match whatever cam you're running and in this instance they just bought heads without providing information so the speed master heads was set up for a smaller cam possibly a stock cam and I've never owned speed master but from the people I know who run them don't have any issues with them they are a budget head and as with anything ( you get exactly what you pay for )
AFR hardware isn't much to brag about....I don't know what they use now but, when the 195 Eliminator series 1st came out....Mine had KAR valves from India!
Definitely go the extra cash. Thats a huge difference over the whole power band. Great work. Keep it up. Have a great day
I always spent every dime I could on the heads then whatever was left over went to the short block.
Its a Good practice imo
@@johnsheetz6639 until u break a rod or crank from spending so much on heads you had to use lower cost parts in short block
@@bigsean2473 Factory forged crank and rods should handle 550HP @ 6800 ALL day long and twice on Sunday, no problem!!!
@@Anarchy-Is-Liberty there is not many factory forged crank and rod in engines you pull from you car or thre junk yard. most are cast. so if you blow budget on heads you stuck with the cast factory parts
@@bigsean2473 Most say GM rods are forged not cast. Upgrade rod bolts they hold up to plenty of abuse
I run a set of Dragonslayers on my .040 over 400sbc flat top bracket motor 630 roller HVH Brodix intake 950 carb. Made 614 hp 586 tq. Fantastic heads right out of the box!
Yeah soon as I heard "Brodix" I didn't need to hear anything more....... of course they did great.
I knew it wasn't 'low buck'
...
Was actually my exact thought
Definitely worth the extra $400!!! Thanks as always Richard!
You CANNOT beat cylinder head airflow! Period! Hence the reason I love square port LS heads! 300+ CFM STOCK! And great increases when their ported. Especially on the exhaust side...
@@hendo337 I was referring to just the factory heads. Since I'm doing a semi budget build, that's the route I'm taking. If money was no object, I'd go with AFR for sure. Maybe after I scatter this setup. Lol
@@hendo337 you made great points, but I'm with this guy. I prefer work over L92 heads, than investing into my 317 or any other factory cathedral port heads
hendo337 yeah I hand ported a set of 706s, for my ls1 and 6.0 small valve is happier up high, as long as it still flows not to mention the extra compression, the hand ported 706s have a killer torque curve and makes fantastic average power from 3-7000 rpm
@@crw3673 #AMEN
hendo337 that will get the job done
You have any comparison videos of edelbrock heads vs any other?
I would definitely buy the Brodix heads. I think another interesting test would have been to slap on an Edelbrock air gap intake and see the bottom end pick up vs the high end loss. May be worth going with the air gap for a street vehicle. Also, would like to see you do a 427 SBC vs 427 BBC with same compression, same series heads, same series camshaft and see what the differences are. I will bet the BBC edges it out slightly.
I can tell you for a fact you gotta port a air gap to go on ik200s. The casting quality on the brodix head was way better than all the others I checked out.
theory of air gap vs feeling a difference in the butt dyno...buy what you can afford doubt youll feel a thing otherwise. Intakes make less of a difference than most would guess.
I punch a clock in a manufacturing facility...
yeah... low buck is my game ;-)
I used to work in a factory as a machinist, as a mechanic in my shop, and also did military time which resulted in me not having to/being allowed to work anymore, but having a rather small fixed income. So lots of cool skills and time, not much money. Low buck is the only way I can do things. I like to go fast, which is why I go with big engines that make tons of torque under 6000rpm. It costs a lot less to have fun being able to use the 2.73 or 3.08 gears that are already in the car.
Thump Er thank you for your service and sacrifice sir!
BRODIX FOR THE WIN!!!!!
I feel with better intake, big solid roller, more rpms, probably another point or two on compression and at least 1 7/8 headers and you would have yourself an ls killer 😉. Nice build
Great video again Richo. Brodix heads are Absolutely worth a few hundred dollars more !
I am thinking of replacing my 113 heads on my 383 with a set of Brodix raceright heads this winter, this video gives me more thoughts.
Yes yes yes...out the box with acceptable springs...as cast...yes. I have yet to build a healthy small block, but one think is obvious...heads are the key. I haven't ever had the power the speed master heads created, but it would be wise to step up all things considered. This is information I can use.
Damn nice results for basically a near 70 year old design. 50 horses for $400? Sign me up!!
Very interesting comparison and as usual great information. Would love to see a test on the AFR as cast series heads in the future. Keep up the great content!
It depends on the application. If I wanted more power for a pickup or something of that nature I would probably go with the cheaper heads. If I was building an engine for a sleeper or something of that nature I would go with the more expensive heads.
Great content, Richard! As others have said, an exact CNC copy of a crummy port is not worth much. You get what you pay for and I add Buy American!
Agree....port size, valve size of those cnc speedmaster is a joke.
Have a set here at home (not speedmaster nor usa) doing at least the same with a waaay smaller port and 2.02 valve
This is why I picked the Brodix heads for my engine. Figure I can always CNC them later when it's time for another upgrade. Can't really do that with the other heads without replacing them.
I'd spend the extra 4 hundo.
It’s not only the airflow and the HP but the quality of the components in the head. Also wonder just how flat the deck surfaces are on the cheap heads? Will they have to be surfaced? I hear Speedmaster uses cheap retainers, springs and guided. Richard had to upgrade the springs. How much did that add to the cost?
10 bucks per hp, if only every hp was that cheap.
Man wish this was done on a 350 for us stock guys
Personally I blame squirrels
The brodix head's are better in every way awesome comparison to show it's worth the extra money
I made 580hp NA with 357ci and 308cfm 220cc heads, 274/278@.050, 668/669 lift, 106 lobe sep. Run 10.40s in the 1/4 @ 3200lbs.
Nice set up Dude. If you don't mind me asking, What transmission and rear gear did you use. Cheers
@@MJTAUTOMOTIVE manual valvebody T-400 with a 5500 stall BTE 8 inch converter, 5-13 gear on a spool in a 12-bolt. 29.5x11.5 M/T slicks.
@@thereluctantgearhead4544 . Dude That sounds like a very nasty setup. Thanks for letting me know. My engine has just over 500hp but the car is a little heavy at the moment. But I think I should be able to get to around your vehicles weight.
Cheers.
@@MJTAUTOMOTIVE light is might....
@@MJTAUTOMOTIVE Gears fix a lot of that in heavy cars.
I would fork over the extra for 2 reasons. 1 the extra power top end was significant. 2 both HP & TQ were up the whole time.
I would like to see what the CNC ported version of the Brodix dragon slayer heads did on the dyno. to compare the Ported vs no Ported versions and the cost. I would also like to see what a basic home sanding roll cleanup to the ports on the dragon slayer head would do for flow. that's more flow bench testing than dyno testing. but it would be neat to see.
Personally I would spend the extra 400 on the Brodix head. 1. it made more power and 2. you know it is a quality head. Speed Master is just the new name for the Chinese made ProComp heads. I know some guys that like them, and I know a few engine builders that hate them. the guys I know that like them are the DIY guys that are just looking for a cheap head. the guys i know that hate them are all professional engine rebuilders that tell me the quality control on the fully assembled heads is crap, mainly valve seats out of round, loose guides, pushrod guide plates that don't line up with the valves, etc. I have been told the bare casting itself is OK, but it needs to have a competent machine shop finish and assemble them. to me I would just rather buy a assembled head from a manufacturer with a proven track record like Brodix, AFR, Edelbrock, Trick Flo, or Dart. you would be money ahead to start with.
You should do a shoot out on the pro Maxx heads they are a good low buck option, but would be interested to see how they perform on a set up like this.
look at Eric Wiengartener racing heads channel, he has done the pro maxx head reviews and flows.
It depends on the cam that you select. The more aggressive the cam profile, the bigger the difference between the performance of the 2 heads. Having said that, I would probably go with the more expensive heads. If you're going to do the work of doing the head swap, you're better off spending a little more money.
Coming from someone that spent only 895$ on promaxx heads, yea the power is worth the extra 400ish dollars. I like my heads though and for the price I feel like they are a better buy than the cnc speedmasters.
The Promaxx stuff worked well in my testing
@@richardholdener1727 how would they stack up to the speedmasters from this test do you think?
If you work in America you should consider buying made in America when you can
it's not like you buy heads and intake every time you build one
I'll spend a little extra for an American made part
Thanks Richard, you helped with head choice decision, dragon slayer all day.
I'd look to the better head, the incremental cost for the good boost across the board is very attractive.
Is spending the money for cylinders heads the produce more power worth the expence . Absolutely . In my option a great set of heads enables you to run less camshaft and still make good power .
Is it really 400 extra when you have to buy better valve springs because the speedmaster ones are garbage?
Would be curious to see the difference in a set of older good cast heads, like dart or world sportsman 2's compared to these heads. I'm sure there's a big difference, question is, how much and where.
Still love you to be the FIRST on UA-cam to do some comparisons / test / vs with sbc Edrlbrock Victor Junior heads . No one has and I can’t understand why ?!?
I have tested Vic Jr Ford heads
Richard Holdener can you send a link please ? Have searched for years to no avail . Surprised nobody has tested them independently 👁👅👁 for sbc
Can you test the ProMaxx Shocker heads? The numbers look really good I'm curious if they are real.
their BBC and Ford heads have been tested-they work well
@@richardholdener1727 Good to know. Thanks
Do a test using the NKB heads that skip white performance sells. They claim the valves , springs, retainers are from comp cams
It's a difference of over .50 per HP at peak. Now I think the $400 is well spent looking at the area under the curve.
Good video to point out that marketing tricks people into thinking only the latest and greatest tech always is best. If you don't know what your doing the best CNC machines in the world won't help...
Would like to see this tes done on a 400 sbc, with dart Pro 1 230, Rhs 235, Afr 235, and dragon slayer plus any top head suppliers I've missed out and around 650 to 675 valve lift. Cheers
It’s not a $400 difference if you have to upgrade valve springs. Sounds like a $100 difference.
I never feel sorry for any one buying Chinese copy’s of someone’s heads , intake , cams ,etc , not only will the performance be down but heat treating , valves and seats will be subpar , only cheap deals are used parts/engines that weren’t built to be cheap to start with .
The Brodix heads are definitely worth the extra money. That is a lot of extra power gains for the price difference.
I would like to see the comparison from the promaxx 220cc head vs the speedmasters cnc head. About 500$ cheaper.
put afr 195 street eliminator heads on, 100.00 cheaper than brodix
VS the as cast new enforcer 195s
Yes, go with the as cast Enforcer. Be a good showdown!!
The supplied springs with the Brodix heads were up to the job? If so, it's a no-brainer. Thanks for the comparison Richard. I do not dabble in SBC stuff much anymore, but wow, we are in a golden age aren't we?
Whit all these test you have done with is your go to head gasket
fel pro
I don't care about how well it performs I just want to be able to tell people I've got a pair of DRAGONSLAYERS
They might be a touch large for a 383, and better suited for a build in the 406-427 range? I was thinking the 210cc Iron Killers ["wild thing"] might be better.
@@flinch622 he literally just used a 383 striker and it made awesome power. They are perfect for a 383. Would be even more power if a 600+ lift solid roller cam was used.
I’m watching on the edge of my seat as I’m seriously considering the DS365 for my 598 build...
Richard - great video once again. How about Summit and/or Blueprint VS AFR and/or all of the above VS each other....? Might be beating a dead horse, but why not.... LOL
Should probably take into consideration the price for upgrading the springs
100% worth the money. Absolute no brainer
I love my dragon slayers. Although I have had them fully ported as well as install exhaust valve seals as the dragon slayer is prepped for only race so those seals are not included
You should have run them against a set of Profiler heads. They are fairly budget minded.
did you check the valve job on all these heads which ones had bad out of the box seat work
It would be hard to give up the money for those dragon slayer heads but for a 406 or 383 with a heavy cam definitely
I would like to see you test a pair of DNA aluminum 200 cc heads from Amazon on a SBC just to see how good or bad they really are.
When you are into something $1400 deep whats another $400? Plus its 100 hp
I’ve got a 78 long bed with a 355 procomp heads comp 273xe roller rpm air gap speedmaster rods and kB hyperutectic flat tops and it produced about the same power curve just about 30 hp and tq less really fun combo with 2500 stall and 4.56 gears on 31s
l would love to see these up against a AFR head as well. Why dose no one use the Victor jr heads in tests also?
Edelbrock is just paying for a name anymore
I have checked the dragon slayer heads out before in the shop. I love them. I think they are well worth the cost.
can we see a test like this with a BBC?
I just can't bring myself to buy Pro Comp / Speedmaster or other Chinese / Taiwan parts
You just have to do your homework. Years ago, when I was just out of highschool, I bought a set of then Patriot Heads (now Promaxx) based on an article in Hot Rod Magazine where they flow benched a bunch of heads and were surprised to find the Patriot heads out flowed some of the more expensive heads (though not all) all the way up to .600 lift.
I put a pair on my 383 at the time and they worked really well. The only problem I had with them was, after I put a big solid roller cam and blower I upgraded the valve springs accordingly and eventually broke two of the rocker arm studs which I didn't know at the time were pretty inadequate for that much spring. I put in larger studs and never had a problem with those heads again (sold it a few years ago).
Now since Patriot became Promaxx I can't speak of the quality of their parts but I haven't heard anything overtly negative about them in spite of still being Chinese heads. And I realize there is some junk out there. To each his own. I also generally prefer to stay away from that stuff now but mostly because I have a much bigger budget for race car stuff then I did in high school.
I was hoping for a pair of DNA motorsport vs stock vortec heads but this is okay I guess
I would like to see a cost and performance comparison between this head and a Chevy Vortec head that has been cleaned up and has new springs and rockers, etc, so it is comparable to the Speedmaster in terms of condition.
This is much better than a Vortec head
How much extra for the set of Comp spring upgrade? That would ad to the cost of the ProComp heads narrowing the difference in cost. Great content. Thanks.
Yes...... it does every day of the week ...
I absolutely would go with the Brodix heads because I like horsepower. I have had 4 sets of the cheapies and 3 sets of Brodix
400.00 for 100 HP it only money .
I've never had success with speedmaster/procomp parts. After being burned by their junk several times I will not buy any of their products any more. Once I bought a set of fabricated valve covers thinking "what could go wrong?", had to file the bolt holes and weld the sealing edge as it didnt fit the OEM head gasket face. Their after sales support has been atrocious too.
As shown here, stick with the good brand name products, they may be a little more expensive but at least your not buying cheap Chinese junk.
Given the amount of damage a dropped valve can cause I would never trust the quality of their springs or valves, probably all made from recycled chinese bicycles ????
For most, it's never enough and $3-400 doesn't seem outrageous for the possibility of future growth. I imagine they'll (the brodix) will support mo powa(baby) and not require an upgrade next season when you decide that it's not enough.
I'm struggling with turbo choices currently, I don't want to select an overly large unit and lose too much streetability , but I am very concious of the fact that I will definitely want more.
The eternal question,
"Speed cost,
How fast do you wanna go"?
Thanks Richard, great video. Could you dyno the DragonSlayer vs the AFR 195 Competition SBC cylinder heads?
Hello Mr.Holdener
I get it. Believe me I get. This is not an attack on you. Many many people will buy the least expensive what ever. Automotive parts etc etc. Never stopping to think why they can only afford the chinesium product. Because they keep buying chinesium! If those same people saved just a little bit longer they could afford products made in the USA. There by supporting their own economy. Their wages through their prudent spending will increase over time. Enough soap box.
I do enjoy these videos. Thanks.
Would love to see how the promaxx maxx series heads $950 vs tfs 11r ($1400) on a sbf would fair for us ford guys
Ford = boat anchor!
I'ld like to know what the difference would be with the speedmaster head compared to cast chevy heads like the fuelies 461 ported
the speed heads are better
Wanna see a comparison on the edelbrock heads vs others for the 351w
I would like to see a comparison between the Dragon Slayer head, AFR 215s and Darts SHP 200 head. I have the SHP 200s on a 383 and would really like to know what I could gain with the better heads.
Brodix heads have always done well for me.
$400 for nearly 10% more power everywhere?
I consider the answer to be an obvious yes.
I would have liked to see this same combo but done on a 406 sbc. If you're going to run a small block Chevy, might as well be the biggest production small block out there!! There is no replacement for displacement!