I Interviewed a SAINTS ROW Developer! (EXCLUSIVE)
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- Flippy's 1st Agents of Mayhem video: • What Happened to Agent...
Flippy's 2nd Agents of Mayhem video: • The SHOCKING truth beh...
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Flippy's 1st Agents of Mayhem video: ua-cam.com/video/Rp3St3sOaVk/v-deo.html
Flippy's 2nd Agents of Mayhem video: ua-cam.com/video/2_ZmcV3GCfs/v-deo.html
Missed opportunity to call this ‘Dev and the Dev’
FUCK
"Dev to Dev" would be better (like Doctor to Doctor from steve brule)
@@li5up6 2 Devs and a Davey
@@ShortFatOtaku common Dev L
@@ShortFatOtaku There's always next time 😂
"Taking someones clothes is like rape" Holy shit that's fucking hilarious statement.
Its insanity 😂
Skyrim promotes rape! Nooooo
Does Sami Briggs work there? Lol
By that logic Agent 47 is a mass rapist XD
lmao
Jesus Christ, this industry is fucking poisoned beyond belief.
Beyond god damn belief....
I can't wait for the crash
Only major game studios
@@Wolfflow500 Indie games are tame af, Happy Wheels was edgier than 99% of modern indie games
@@supershot9729 hope you enjoy the wait. people have been saying the industry would crash for over 15 years
So "Safe Horny", "Troll's Remorse", millennial sensibilities, sounds like the Saints Row issue is squarely at the intersection of all of Dev's "Culture War" videos.
this should be top comment
Millennials always wanna blame their sensibilities on zoomers. Neither are innocent but goddamn I hate millennials so much for their hypocrisy over this shit.
Sounds like people who grew up and should have moved on to other companies so that people who were interested in making a Saint's Row game can have a chance.
What the fuck is safe horny?
Yet it's ironically stupid. Just these were 20-30 somethings if not OLDER than that gen X'ers that's what Saints Row was it was 2000s late Gen X culture. That a lot of millennials like myself swam in, we loved that crazy culture. It's wild that there's a bunch of weirdos that act like ALL of it didn't happen or shouldn't be talked about. Growing up is accepting things happened not the crap they're doing now.
"Taking someone's clothes is like rape."
"Shooting NPCs is like murder."
Not all the neurons are firing at Volition upper management.
So agent 47 is a serial rapist by that logic.
I bet you're one of those "lolicon is not pedo" pieces of crap.
Bold to assume that any went off in the first place.
This has been common in the far-left social justice doctrine for the past decade. IDK why anyone surprised.
Schools in England rewrote some textbooks, because they thought Andrew Tate's jokes would lead to kids beating women irl.
These people are nuts.
Did they replaced all of their devs or something?
If you're like 'hitting people with a dildo bat is too juvenile, I don't want to put that in the Saints Row game,' I think you didn't understand the assignment of 'make a Saints Row game'
I’ll never forget the image of the CEO or studio lead or whoever, walking out of the building with the dildobat on his shoulder.
I agree, but at the same time that was literally the only joke SR3 had which is a big reason why I disliked it. I don't count the fact that the story about selling out was in the game that felt like selling out as a joke, because that was unintentional metacommentary.
SR2 was the best SR game, the content of which was about 0.08% dildos.
Memebrain is the reason we are fed (and willingly consume) slop.
Try to remember what ACTUALLY made SR a good series (Hint: it's not the dildos)
It's like how a lot of developers now will buy a game's rights to make a game that has nothing to do with the game what so ever becides graphics. It's all about that nostalgia recognition. What do you mean Dead Space was a slow moving horror about using tools to defeat a horde of nightmare beasts made from mankind's mistakes? NOT ENOUGH MONEY! Quick, make it a third person action shooter with the same guns that didn't work on the necromorphs because they would just absorb the bullets without injury! Write that out of canon lore! No, not enough money. Make the single player experience have buyable items to upgrade weapons, and make it cost BAZONKAS to level up your weapon!
Not to mention the irony of adding woke shit to a project that you are trying to make *less* juvenile.
As a game dev myself, I can confirm that the industry as a whole is a bit fucked right now
Honestly I'm kind of scared. I just got out of college for game design and I can't help but think I just flushed away all my money.
a BIT FUCKED?
Bro, it's COLOSSALLY FUCKED.
We know that management & finance are messed up.
What is it like on the gave dev level?
What is directly pushed on you?
@@Theosis10Same here, man. I’m thinking of just being a solo dev, lol.
Of course it is. If it wasn't, the prevalence of indie games wouldn't exist. Hell, there's even now people who refuse to play AAA games and only sift through piles of indie games, and it's not even small % of the people. Turns out there's quite a lot of people (not console peasants lmao) who can't be bought with flashy graphics without substance. Just look at the hits like Darkest Dungeon, Binding of Isaac, Fear&Hunger, just to name a few. It's because all of those games breathe passion.
Industry should have never grown to this size, moment you have 1000 employees you're logically incentivized not to take risks. Back in my day, you made a good game and sometimes it was years before it got popular, and people have been losing houses if they fail, as any artistic endeavor should be.
Also, people above age of 40 should seldom make games, the story of "We grew up, we don't want to make these types of games" is so common, while also ignoring that they are still making games for majority people in their teens and 20s, because their own generation doesn't have that much time to play them, and is also "grown up". My personal opinion is that if you're "well-adjusted individual in society" you got no business making art (games included), and if people do that when they're in their 20s, then acquire money and adjust, they also lose any artistic value, because vast majority of art (from writing, painting, to game development) is outcry for not being understood by your surroundings. This isn't even exclusive to game development as I said, there's TONS of bands that got popular while they were in their 20s by making something a bit edgy, then they mellow out with families and kids in their 40s and stop making the very same music that got them popular.
16:25 "Lots of game developers end up making games for other developers, not gamers."
There's that mythical "modern audience" that we're told entertainment is made for.
Yup it's all across the entertainment industry. Everyone I know talks about the cheesey joke writing in every major movie, like star wars or marvel. But they keep pumping them out.
Kind of a loaded statement, that i dont believe actually is the smoking gun yall think it is. Game devs are the subject matter experts, it stands to reason that making a game, that a dev would enjoy, should translate into better games. The biggest "fans" of any industry, typically are involved in the industry... look at Norm Macdonald, a comedians comedian, and the greatest comedian of all time.
The issue is the social programming and ideological injections at the expense of entertainment, the problem is the activisim by politically charged employees/employers. A lot of people are so far gone that they just dont even recognize how blatant and obvious they are.
@@mightymoeishThat is due to a genuine lack of skill and talent. Like these people genuinely aren’t funny and are not good writers. Basic fan fiction writers could write better than these people. The industry is just composed of talentless bums who went to college and got a job in the industry through their connections. That’s it.
@@mightymoeish Because they want people to just accept the new movies and games and to just think a certain way. It'd be like you buying a large coffee with 2 milk and 2 sugar and they hand you just a small black coffee. You complain and they say that they are helping you because this is the modern coffee that's much healthier at a smaller portion with no milk or sugar
Really the post by the developer about being OK with the game failing shows you that they fail to understand that they are part of a fringe minority. They are so insulated that they can't grasp the concept that everybody doesn't think like them.
Honestly I would like to debate those developers on what was racist and sexist in the old Saints Row games. I can't think of anything in Saints Row 2 like that.
I love your content professional
Those games could be KKK simulators and it still wouldn't excuse the godawful character designs they went with for the reboot. Forget woke or whatever, they were just BAD lol
You can very much so play as an empowered girlboss of any ethnic minority that rises to success by being a competent, stern leader; having absolutely no one question her based on her gender or race, but simply fall in line due her charisma, strategy, and powerful aura. And you have the option to not sexualize her at all.
Calling the past games "sexist or racist" is simply elitist virtue signaling by lazy people that think a "crime game" is an easy target without actually doing due diligence on it
Funnier considering he final boss of 2 was a massive corporation who was supplying the gangs with weapons to make the value go down and make people move out so they could buy It for dirt cheap and let only rich people in.
Or the final bad in saints 3 was more or less miliarty contractors who blow up a national monument just so they can engage in a police state just to kill the saints.
Yo! Proffessional I love your stuff! You're the main guy I watched for the SR reboot stuff! Thank you for doing the rough stuff and playing this garbage man, I know it must have been difficult.
"If games I work on fail financially because we _refuse to cow to bigotries of the past and placate hateful 'fans'?_ I'm ok with failure."
Guess who's _not_ ok with failure? THE PEOPLE WHOM EMPLOY YOU
Unfortunately, another company will be stupid enough to hire and keep them.
@@mrshmuga9 True, but its not like we can expect anything more from these companies. They have been re-hiring CEO's who come into a decently running company, run it into the ground, torch it, and jump out with a golden parachute just to move on and repeat the process with the next company.
And the same people complain on twitter when they are fired... Insane.
What bigotries do they think gamers are asking for? Women who are pretty? A black character who doesn't say racist things? A character who doesn't make terrible jokes? What do they think people are _really_ asking for? Have they ever actually spoken to these fans instead of getting secondhand filtered info from their activist friends?
@@hope-cat4894 It doesn't matter what the people they talk to say because they believe in manufactured consent. They think the average person is too stupid to think for themselves (kinda based). So in this worldview it comes down to who controls the propaganda machine, "the hand the rocks the cradle rules the world" and all that. In their view by trying to 'be profitable' they would just be foot soldiers for the colonialist liberal world order. It's actually pretty principled for a leftist. They are religious people that don't want to make content promoting a competing religion basically.
Always liked being a QA tester for a lot of games, and the one thing I have realized is that its always a vocal minority within the dev team who make the most shitty decisions. Also lack of leadership/direction is usually down to the fact that no one wants to be "that guy" who rips someone a new asshole and has to get anger management classes for it.
Or being the guy who has to take the blame if anything goes wrong.
There's a reason why the ‘GM Salute’ exists.
Yeah from what Woolie said in an interview he did for the PST podcast about his time in QA, usually when everything goes wrong in a game it's because there's a mini-civil war going on in the studio with managment unable to fix anything.
Also don't sell yourself short, if you're in QA then you ARE a developer, your input is invaluable in making sure games aren't even more of bug-filled messes than they can be at launch.
How does one get to do that? I always wondered.
@@canaldecasta I know my son got offered to become a tester because he ran into a dev while playing WOW (or LOL?). I've seen small companies recruit testers on their discord, and I assume you can network your way into a bigger company from there.
Why anyone would want to do that, though, beats me. Testing is hard work, tedious and repetitive - you'd have to pay me some serious money; not sure how many testers get paid, though. Maybe a free copy of the game, hurray.
But if that's what your heart yearns for, go for it.
Well we certainly need more of "that guy" in the industry. Men and women who don't give a F*CK and don't hesitate to fire these parasites. I swear D.E.I. is a cancer bruh...
Making Saint's Row safe is like making a non-alcoholic vodka: 1) Don't 2) Outsource it to Eastern Europe, they're better at it anyway
Like the developer of that recent *Destroy All Humans* remake. Just look at Natalya Ivanova. Sexy and big boobies on full display like the original. Over here, that wouldn't have made it pass the concept art phase due to the 90-gendered rainbow haired prog getting triggered by it.
2. You may not get the product you asked for, but you get the product everyone else asked for.
@@oz_joneseurojank gave us STALKER
I find it astonishing that these people intentionally made it impossible to control the camera while driving, they did that in SR3.
Volition was past its prime after SR2.
Absolute insanity.
No they aren’t. East euros whole identity is copying the west. If you want a good none woke trash game go to Russia.
i hate how people keep saying anita isnt relevant anymore. her and people like her have wormed their way into so many companies like parasites that ruin the product like a bad apple
It's that old saying, "a bad apple spoils the bunch".
The Wicked Bitch of the West strikes again!
Sweet Baby Inc comes to mind.
Bruh dose just fall guys, dey all paid by not know to do dat😊
People say that because Anita is not a true believer, she's a hack that says the right things to get in the right parties and talk to the right people.
The problem is that the people she creates, those who are ruining industries, burning money all the way down, those are believers.
Who knew belittling your core customer base and writing nonstop preachy cringe wouldn't be profitable.
I think they were waaaaaaaay too confident that Arabic money deal would go through, stupidly not caring if the Saints Row reboot game bombed or not.
@@gjtrueexactly. A common symptom seems to be studios underneath a large publisher think they’ll be funded no matter what crap they shovel out. I see similarities between AgentsOfMayhem & Battleborn by Gearbox. Gearbox also has declined in their narrative/creative direction. Gearbox was also under Embracer.
The more you know...
Heres the thing, the BlackRock money flows to these ESG/DEI cesspools... That is a multi Trillion dollar investment fund, with the explicit goal to undermine values cultures and norms (Larry Fink, many interviews). They don't care about serving the customer, because at the end of the day they will have jobs - or HR norms will be pushed so hard that these gender freaks will never be jobless.
@@captaincrunch1707 This is basically all public companies now that only look for profits because of investors, all while they do not care about the long run of retaining customers. It's like that with most businesses now
"Lots of game developers end up making games for other game developers, not gamers."
That's something I've been feeling and poking around trying to articulate for a while. This guy is absolutely right.
The response to Elden Ring made it very clear that some developers are more jealous of other's works than they are motivated to make their own thing to begin with
@@thepurplebandit3859 Never mind that jealousy could produce something great on occasion.
Shrek, anyone?
it’s the same with the film industry. “modern audiences” are just the other people in the industry, not the actual ticket-buying audience.
Well, it is a passion not a job for most of the people in it. Me included. If I wanted to maximize income same skills pay more outside of gaming. This holds pretty much for every type of job and includes very senior people. So of course there is some of the split loyalty between making a game that is a hit and making what you think is best art/craft. I'm paid OK and my game in EA is I think catering well to the audience, lets say this project is healthy middle ground where passion is useful but not primary. Sometimes it leads to new genres and discoveries where audience will get in love with something they didn't yet knew they wanted. Other times it leads to a cult classic, or something that dies in obscurity because there was no audience for it. Or like this video, but in this case they were infected with activism that had nothing to do with the medium. Those pests were not making it for themselves, i.e. to make something they would love to play. They were making it for the "greater good of reshaping society in progressive image" or for brownie points of being obedient progs observing and advancing the tenets of their religion.
@@zerocore_ Came here to post exactly this. Directors are making films for other directors.
"It might have been a 7/10 game instead of a 6/10."
Very cute of him to label the current game as a 6/10 which would make it above average. I doubt a game that is viewed as above average would have received this reception.
He might of just said that if whoever discovered he was talking about the development with a UA-camr
I think that, in the world of entertainment despite how nonsensical this might sound, 5/10 is not 'the average'.
A 5/10 is entertainment which doesn't impress you in any way, is predictable, boring - people wouldn't want to engage with it.
Ironically enough, a below 5 work could garner more fans because of the "so bad it's good" faction of people, but a simple 5 just doesn't interest anybody at all.
Stuff below 3 is almost definitely just the effect of groups of people mass '1-star'ing' a work because it somehow directly spit in the faces of fans/the viewers in some way, while otherwise just being 'kind of meh' overall.
So, in this world, a 6/10 is a "I guess some enjoyment COULD be found in this" or "Some select types of people might find this decent"
A 7/10 is already closer to "It's decently enjoyable I guess. Could be much better, but if you have nothing better to do, you might as well 'consume this product'"
The recent influx of "MarvelSlop" and other woke but flashy movies are examples of entertainment that would be somewhere between the 6/10 and 7/10 rating.
A 5/10 work is one which you've probably just never even heard about - almost nobody cares about it enough to talk about it in the first place.
In the anime world, the seasonal typical isekai shows are usually not rated around 5/10, but closer to 6 or 7/10, just like the 'movie slop' is.
TL;DR: The average is sometimes not the average.
@@Karsh. So what I gather is the ratings mean squat unless I know what a 6/10 means to a person
@@inferior3199 This was a talking point like 15-16 years ago. Gaming review scores are actually 6-10. Nobody should waste their time on 0-5 games because most of the time companies gain nothing by shipping a 5/10 game since getting a 5 means bugs, unfinished, unsatisfactory gameplay and 4 and below is near unplayable. I mean, Jeff Gerstmann was fired for giving Kane & Lynch a 6.
I agree with your sentiment but yeah, hes using the "critics score" which is a loaded system that totally undermines itself, but shows you how out of touch he is with the consumers of the industry.
RT is a bad example but they supposedly give you the critic score and an "audience" score, which are generally wildly different.
Sweet Baby kiss of DEATH. Blacklist Sweet Baby from all creative industry. Every single employee.
That's not good enough, they can always reincorporate into another company. What we need to is kick out the woke workers from game studios and publishers. That way censors like Sweet Baby will simply fail and dry up from a lack of clients.
I don't like that they've become the scapegoat for developer incompetence. Volition had been on the downward trend for a decade after Saints Row 4, and Embracer basically put the gun to their head and shot them
Sweetbaby Inc was literally never mentioned in this interview.
@@Gannoh They're not the scapegoat, don't worry.
No, they're just the current target and the *example* waiting to be made.
Once they've had their day, next will be whoever else tries to shovel slop at us while demanding gratitude.
That's what this is really about, and it doesn't start OR end with video games.
The people *will* regain control of their culture.
@@matteomastrodomenico1231 I think bro is just making a statement about other related recent events.
NGL, I’d pay good money for a GTA style game in the Balkans. You wouldn’t even have to exaggerate anything, it’s just that absurd.
It could also be sold as a life simulator for the Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrin and -Kosovan- markets.
That's just Gothic 2.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Lol not quite. More like fantasy medieval Central Europe on crack, but kind of close.
@@IndirectSoter Nah, it's overdosed on Swampweed
18:33 "Balls to the wall Adidas life Eastern European gangsta Saints Row by developer who dont give a FUCK about controversy" sounds honestly amazing.
CHEEKI BREEKI: THE GAME
call of kurwa
The only way a budget can get that absurd is when a lot of 'consultants of a certain field' get involved, for the worse.
You can bet we are gonna get more reports in inflated budgets as more ideologically-motivated employees in studios get their consultant-connected friends involved.
Lots of reasons for budgets to balloon, but that certainly doesn’t help.
Unfortunately woke students are being churned out in droves from woke colleges
It's a safe bet that sbi or other similar cretins had a hand in destroying the franchise
Oh no! Dev's a video game journalist now! He's lived long enought to become the villain!
couldn't get past the qUiRkY main character robbing a bank murdering guards and being like "just doing this for the rent bro! i gotta eat too!"
insufferable
whats messed up is the premise can work, you just need them to not all be college kids, but people mad and disillusioned at the false bill of goods theyve been sold all their life and lean into that premise wholesale, and the clashing of personalities like pierce having a big complicated plan and gat going "front door, guns, blow safe" creates the comedy
but people dont know how to write any more, and management never takes risks
@@astarothk2273 some games do jaded protagonists super well, its interesting being put into a world that seems cool but your character is cynical of it. such a character probably isn't making dumb jokes that people think millennials will like every 20seconds whilst driving
@@astarothk2273 saints rows 1 they were made to stop gangs and than in 2 you see how playa is jaded and bitter and just wants to take over the city no matter what. He was a terrible person who would do whatever to get it but he was loyal and charismatic with his crew. Also the crew were charming despite all being psychos
"Everything is racist, everything is sexist, and you have to point it all out." I nearly puked out of sheer disgust after hearing that. People who genuinely think this way are the reason why we will never have world peace. Nothing is ever good enough for them. All they want is eternal arguments and discourse.
I think the part that gets under my skin the most is that they knew all this time the fans wanted a sr1/sr2 type of reboot and still went against it.
7:02 i remember conservatives being mad at all the sexual content in video games and liberals approving sexual freedom. How times have changed.
Conservative outcry against videogames was in an era where videogames were seen as 'for children'. This was their main point of grief and when you showed them the 18+ they would often be confused since they didnt understand why adults would play videogames. Progressives popped up once the videogame industry had matured and went mainstream and saw it as an opportunity to spread their message. The reduction of sexual content is more or less a side effect of that.
In the end neither progressives nor conservatives have changed. Conservatives want to protect the children and progressives want to promote oppressed social groups.
@@rogierb5945progressives want centralized tyranny
Now they both hate it and bring up how "their god" hates that and we should hate it too.
@@ExeErdnaI’m genuinely surprised to see people still type shit like this, like it’s 2014 r/atheism, also bro’s got a hentai pfp😂
@@smartfella7914 he is a fart smella
By making this video, Dev is already a better game journalist than most game journalists
Then that means they're a whistle-blower.
As a game dev, this checks out. My last company and every single one that I know people at has an issues with leadership and a lot of them are the same issue. People who have been at the company way too long and have ended up at the top, yet they are incompetent at their jobs and don't want to actually make decisions or make bad ones. Really I feel like the game's industry is the Peter Principle in motion. People who might have done good work in the past end up in positions they are no longer fit to be in. They surround themselves with yes men because they can't imagine they are wrong after having worked on the games for so long. They make terrible decisions while the whole dev team grumbles, but then goes along with it because they want their paycheck. Then even if the leadership is canned a lot of times the parent company will bring in someone from outside who doesn't understand what's going on and might not be much better or even worse. Like giving your studio to someone from the mobile sphere.
Starfield in a nutshell.
It's corpo self-sabotage it's something I've noticed for a longtime in as I studied to be one of those corpos. There's A LOT they're allowed to do because it isn't illegal. A lot of these companies are basically throwing somebody's kid into spaces and said kid is like an alien new to the planet because they're that media/socially illiterate. Like they do not know how to be around people and seem like they haven't watched or played anything ever. These companies are throwing blank slates with god-complexes at problems and wondering why something burned down. It keeps happening due to how corpo culture shuffles around the same screw ups, due to said screw it is somebody's family or a kiss-ass.
It's so weird that Deep Silver were the heroes on this and that one activist manager was the bad guy, I hope that activist manager never works in games ever again. I wish Deep Silver had sued that guy.
Devs making games for fellow developers, not gamers is nothing new. This is just like the film industry making films for critics, books being made for authors, and martketing being geared towards corporate friendly atmosphere.
This is why you dont insulste your busniess to these types of people.
I just saw like 3 videos suggested on youtube in the last 48 hours about a 'videogame collapse', so clearly you aren't the only one considering this.
I say let it happen. WHen it happened in the 80s, we got better games, and quite frankly, the majority of the games I enjoy these days are from indie developers.
Let the AAA companies regroup, cut the rot out of their dev and management teams and come back stronger than before.
AFAIK the American market would have given up on videogames hadn't Nintendo colonised the Americas.
@unimportantcommenter4356 except for pcs and home compatibles, pc would have ruled gaming long before the 2020s
What de other vids is?
Gamergate 2.0 has started
@@hellishcyberdemon7112 What? PC gaming was sht compared to consoles unless you liked point and click games and awful ports of arcade games.
From my own experiences, I get the impression that the mismanagement is rather a symptom of the woke infestation rather than the cause. For the past couple years I've had to go through a lot of sensitivity training (moreso because of leadership responsibilities too) and a LOT of the training absolutely seems geared to placate the new millennial professional class.
No yelling, get HR involved in pretty much every mildly uncomfortable situation, and by god, if you eavesdrop on two people making off-color jokes at each others' expense (and enjoying it), you damn well report them. I think it's that environment, the sanding off of the edges of human interaction, is why companies like this becomes a breeding ground for the kind of toxic woke subculture to form, because they are able to use company training to sand off non-progressive thoughts.
Of course, the ultimate irony is, that kind of sanding off of human interactions is also a very anti-union move - even though there's a growing number of devs in the US that want to unionize (and are oblivious to the fact that they can and will be replaced with cheap outsourcing). If you can't trust your coworkers to not get HR involved over a poorly-phrased thought you sure as hell can't trust them to have your back in a collective bargaining position.
So the zoomers are not the problem yet?
@@unimportantcommenter4356 The zoomers barely know how to use the tools. Other leads in the company have complained about new hires being unable to do basic debugging work. They are still a problem but they're more a symptom of the leadership rot than anything and a blind adherence to credentialism over merit in hiring.
I do work where Volition was located (The sign is still up but no light now) and it's a pretty liberal town lol. I also got some Volition goodies from an ex employee. This video pretty much on point with what they told me.
Edit: also I found out that the studio for dead by daylight *I think that's the name* is in the same building...the Ceo just moved over to that company.
Dev is moving up in the UA-cam hierarchy. Watch as his harem grows.
hopefully no L.A. arc
@@someguyfromquebec2302 i'm canadian, never moving to LA lol.
@@ShortFatOtakuVancouver then? Honestly I looked up “Canadian equivalent of LA” and that’s what it got me
I guess he didn’t escape from LA
-Duke Nukem
I get to be the tomboy (real).
It is resoundingly ironic that Volition was essentially killed by avolition within, and amongst, all levels of the studio.
Volition's death was a suicide.
They died of their own volition.
*rimshot*
I honestly wonder if Embracer cancelling that Deus Ex game in the works is a blessing in disguise. Maybe it was another inoffensive, boring, by-the-books, design-by-committee, DIE-fueled wokefest dumpster fire like Saints Row Reboot was, and after that shit flopped and burned, they saw the writing on the wall and axed it to avoid sinking more cash into a doomed project.
@@AlexBarbu !nv!s!bl* w*r moment
That community note was sweet. Gamers are very protective of their hobbies. Somebody was holding a grudge against that guy.
18:30 Gopnik Saints Row? _Shut up and take my money!! I'm not even a Saints Row fan, but that sounds fun as hell.
Only if they let you do the gopnik squat
@@Ichthyodactyl Also Adidas knock-offs are a must.
(Seriously tho, Adidas tracksuits look comfy as hell I can see why Eastern Europe likes them so much they make knock-off Adidas to emulate it).
Man, there's a lot of potential for a goofy ahh gangster game that appeals to Eastern European sensibilities.
yeah honestly id buy it
I'm surprised there haven't been more games like this way outside of the US. Not even necessarily with a goify tone, just an open world, mission based game that takes place in other major cities and countries. Outside of Sleeping Dogs, Like a Dragon and Stalker, I can't think of any, but I would love to see much more. I would like to imagine some batshit insane stuff going on in Australia.
IIRC the letsplayer ChipCheezum worked on this game. Or at least, he worked on "a" Saints Row at Volition, I kinda just assume it was the new one. I think he said something in the Kingdom Hearts LP that he snuck a keyblade into the game.
I used to watch him and general ironicus back when I was a teenager, all those years ago.
I still salute Mission J. Frog to this day.
@@ApplesGhostI watched his MGSV and Wonderful 101 playthroughs a few months ago. I’ll never be able to forget Vapor Snake.
@@tylercoon1791 HIS BEAR IS LONELY
@@SeruraRenge11 LOOKINTOHISEYESHESSOSAD
He worked on Agents of Mayhem, was laid off after that didn't do well, then got re-hired to work on Nu Saint's Row. IIRC he did video production work, not direct development, but yeah. A programmer snuck a keyblade into the game.
can confirm, this dev is legit!
Aye man, lets contact some guys ask em if they can ask individuals to release source code and film da process to show us how it went so dat people like me stop bein a broken record
Imagine a team management so bad and incompetent that Randy 'the Magician' Fitchford's one time talk is the closest thing you'll ever get to an actual management and vision.😂😂😂😂😂
I genuinely hope the 2nd video game crash comes sooner than later cuz man, are games BOOORING these days.
To quote that one Atari Mario Bros. advert, "Mario, where are you?"
I dunno,I dont think another crash would turn out the same.
The first crash mostly "worked" because it was localized to america and the japanese picked up the torch.
Now it would be global and both japanese and euro development are in the gutter as well(outside of mobile anyway).
Leaving only indies who arent quite there yet.
i do feel really sorry for your Dev friend, erm, Dev. It must have been like being handcuffed to the Titanic for the poor guy!
But that story did feel like it was written by an 8-year-old, especially the double cross from The Nuali, whose motivation was "I want your friends to be my friends" when they were already his friends, and what was with him making your friends re-enact a stage play of a scene from the beginning of the game, that he had no knowledge of ever happening???
and the other gangs not having any characteristic leaders was a huge waste of potential, they gangs had zero identity other than what clothing they wore without them.
😳omg its larry the cable guy😳
Do you mean charismatic leaders? Also, 'ello you!
Hey larry, did you pay all those people you stole game footage with no credits from?
Was saddened by the shut down and evolution of Volition, Red Faction was a cool series
red faction guerrilla is in my top 10 favorite games ever... the destruction physics was so much fun.... and not a single game has had a destruction system that much fun since, even though the tech today should be able to make some AMAZING destruction physics
@@jameskazd9951 The closest that came to it was that game, Touchdown, which us also fun. It just can't match that balance between story, destruction physics, and the graphics Red Faction posed. Such an underrated game with a very interesting story
@@silverstar8868 Volition sort of shot themselves in the foot with Red Faction though. Guerilla was a great re-entry into the series that sat dormant for quite a while, the follow-up Armageddon took away the open and fully destructible world. That might've been the worst idea they could've done when that was the best part of guerilla that it's odd they went with it.
@@mrbigglezworth42 I goddamn hated how much they strayed from Armageddon. Not only removing the open world and destructive potential, but just the plot and story is so disconnected from the previous installments. It was such a big disappointment.
@@mrbigglezworth42 i have never actually played Armageddon... even though i technically own it (it came with the red faction bundle i bought on steam a few years back). when i found out they toned down the destruction physics and removed the open world i had absolutely zero interest in it anymore
(for further context my first time playing red faction guerrilla was on the PS4 long before i bought the bundle on steam)
Instant click!
As an Eastern European developer, I applaud this man.
The biggest issue with the infection of progressivism is that theres no white blood cells. There is an external immune system. But once the virus infects a segment, nothing really bothers to fight back against it until its too late.
Since they're yapping about DIE, of course there would be no "white blood cells"
The problem is that the people who would act as the immune system always operate as though the things they don't like are ontologically evil and worthy of harassment and hostility. Instead of simply not buying these products and plainly stating why in civil terms, they will use buzzwords, slurs and other hostile language. You will never be seen as the good guy if you do that. Progressive positions have a linguistic advantage by speaking in terms of freeing people from arbitrary constraints, and allowing people to be "their true selves." It's effective because it directs a listener's mind to consider individuals while also implicitly reinforcing the idea that people have a single true nature which they must embody to be truly happy. Positions opposed to these arguments have tended to fixate on appeals to tradition and subjective statements based on anecdotes or presumptions they hold as well as a limited range of statistical data as rote which does not actively support their position, believing the difference in attribution to be a denial of the "obvious" cause they reaffirm with that data.
Counter-progressive positions would be better served to have a clear understanding of the first principles that inform their beliefs, and to communicate their actual concerns in a manner which does not accuse those who disagree of malicious behavior without proof and which genuinely seeks to make the world better for everyone, rather than simply preserving the right to be ignorant of others' struggles.
What I'm getting from this is that the woke shit is a large but still secondary symptom of the primary issue in many creative industries right now, which are that the entire management "class" of employees appear to be almost totally inept and incompetent.
In the end, the failure of any big project has to some degree lay at the feet of the people in charge, the way our most standard hierarchy-based employment structures work inevitably means that the people in charge or overseeing the project have to be competent, diligent, and make mostly smart choices, otherwise the project will collapse.
Hey Dev, in a recent Q&A, I asked MentisWave about you, and he said that despite your political differences, he thought you were a chill dude who'd be great to hang out with, and he'd be down to have a livestream conversation with you if possible.
Personally, I think hearing you two discuss politics could be very interesting.
The fact that they went out of their way to credit redditors was a massive redflag to to me.
"Reddit: Behind the Scenes (Star Watching)"
_Documentary examining the struggles of Reddit's all-female staff and moderators._ (BBC)
"People want saints row 2, but saints row 3 sold better"
And how much of that was off the back of the previous game? That's something that never seems to be taken in to account.
I always felt like saints row had to do something, anything, to help compete with gta, and getting extremely silly with it is what got me to jump in to saints row 3, otherwise, why would i want to play the gta knockoff? The 4th game really went off the rails and it was fun for a bit but i think they went too far too soon and then i dropped the franchise because i just knew their newer games werent for me, just an overtly modern prog power fantasy.
I'd just be willing to chock it up to it being blatantly newer. As time goes on player counts rise by virtue of more people playing games.
And well, saints row 2, on pc particularly, is a lot more jank of an experience than SR3/4.
Latter games being more of a comfortable/reliable "jump in and fuck around for a while" at the cost of better writing and world.
Honestly I didn't hate 3 and the 4th like many people do.
The humor was good and it were still the characters we know and love. Also the powers were fun the use.
Agreed, @@user-pc5qj2ix2c. Although, if given the choice, I tend to jump back into SRIV more than III.
sr3 and 4 actually had personality and better humor
sr1 and 2 were just well-done gta clones
Love that he said Diversity Inclusion and Equity.
DIE is the proper acronym
As a indie dev I think thats the issue when a dev company sells themselves to a corporate group like embracer who does not even play games.
I started out with SR on 360 back in the day and man it was such a cool concept of having a more realistic gang and watching you rise in the Saints. SR2 took everything from SR and cranked it up to 11, the perfect blend of realism, violence and goofy humor. SR3 was too cartoonish for me, Gat Outta Hell was meh, SR4 was trash, and Agents of Mayhem I didn't even know it was supposed to be a SR game until a few years after it launched. Rip old Volition, it's sad to see them go but they hadn't made anything worthwhile in a decade.
yeah saints row 2 was the peak, and while not as good i still had a lot of fun with 3... and i even had fun with 4 but for completely different reasons. saints row 4 reminded me of Prototype which i loved so i had fun with the movement and powers but it certainly wasn't what made saints row 2 so good
@@jameskazd9951 Yeah I could see SR4 reminding you of Prototype with the powers, military, aliens, and monsters. That is similar to why I liked Gat Outta Hell, the powers and the setting were cool and it felt different enough to set it apart from the series mainline games while still being a part of the Saints universe.
What pissed me off de most bout de 2011 disgrace is de bullet sponginess n de booorin ugly city
I think we can see the same thing happening all across the modern entertainment industry. Instead of creatives in charge it is pencil pushers and managers who only know how to follow popular trends and dump money into a game. They only know how to make projects bigger which leads to a fear of risk, micromanagement and a lack of vision. The lack of coherency then gives power to the most vocal. The most vocal in this case are the 'woke' people.
The political people are only visible as a result of company wide failure. Any ideology can make it's roost in these bloated companies as long as it is more vocal and gives more direction than management.
Maybe studios and entire teams of devs wouldn't have to be shut down if ethics departments, sensitivity readers and these esg consultation firms were never hired.
The most shocking thing said in the entire interview was his positive view of Randy Pitchford. Although, to be fair, keeping Randy out of the spotlight for a few years seem to have done wonders for gearbox's reputation.
The public perception of people is often very different from the realities of working with those people.
16:25 "Lots of game developers end up making games for other developers, not gamers"
Speaking from experience this is absolutely 100% true. If you are at a studio creating a game, your primary customers are the executives at your publisher, NOT the consumer. This is what I have been told almost verbatim by project managers throughout the years. This results in consistent safe and boring design choices, never making any decisions that the higher ups might see as too risky. To make things worse, many designers usually only ever reference other pre-existing games to come up with mechanics, meaning all they can ever do is make derivative works and never create anything new. They don't even take inspiration from movies, books, or real life; just games. A lot of developers want to make something unique and interesting, but we can't because the higher ups will say it is too risky, or the design team will tell us that players "won't get it" if we do something different from what everyone else has already done.
They copy each other's homework because they're too scared to have their own ideas.
Amazing interview, I hope over time we will see more dev's talking about past projects. It's interesting just from a history perspective, it's normal to have interviews with people who worked on films one day the same will be true for games.
The staff ageing up and leaving over time is a big thing, a company is not the same 10 years later. Some studios have zero of the original staff, the ethos of the company will not be the same.
It is sort of happening, but only to +10 y.o games with dedicated communities for now.
One such game is Warcraft 3, where Abelhawk hosted an AMA with DesignerDave, the level designer of the Culling of Stratholme.
Another such instance happened with Sniper: Path of Vengeance, where the Hungarian AVGN, Bad PC Games, did an interview with one of the devs in 2013. The interview is fully voiced in English, so a language barrier won't be a problem, in case someone is interested.
You can't use the words "woke" and "fun" in the same sentence, they are inherently opposed ideas.
Make fun of woke products flopping. There, I did it.
Jesus Christ, turning Saints Row into an open world slav jank that has as much technical problems, as it has genuine heart. Tackling a hyper idealized version of american gang culture through a mish mash of surprisingly in depth and interwoved systems(like properly simulated, realtime, faction infighting, for example) and a multi-faceted, branching storyline...as a fan of modded PC Saints Row 2, and alot of niche eastern european games, THAT sounds exactly like what my dream Saints Row game would be. XD
Do we have a single example of something that is made as explicitly modern progressive, and also good? Hard to define as the goalposts of the ideology are always moving further. But something made by these progs that could objectively be called meritable and of a high quality?
Disco Elysium
I've been enjoying Pacific Drive a good bit lately
Disco Elysium is a truly excellent game and is definitively woke. To be honest, even Hogwarts Legacy was pretty woke, despite all protestation about Rowling herself.
@@ShortFatOtakuthat was lightning in a bottle and I’d argue the only reason it works is because it came from a very idealistically broken examination of the ideology.
There’s a lot of subtleties inherent to that game which I’d argue is unable to be reproduced intentionally.
@@Ichthyodactylyeah if this decade has taught me anything it’s exactly how willing the progressive crowd is to cannibalize their “idols”
>making games for game developers
I think the "management VS woke stuff" is apt. I have been saying for a while that people don't really care if a game has woke stuff in it, if the game is good.
Just look at Baldur's Gate 3. There's a lot of woke DNA in that game, from how queer everything is, to the women being very diverse looking and the men all look like they are forming a boy band, and the character creator including a lot of "current year" talking points like boobs and penis on the same character, or vitiligo. (The last one I include because it seems like that's something woke people are gushing over a lot now. Ultimately not an issue to have in game mind you)
But, most people enjoyed BG3. It was fun. You got the feeling that the developers put those things in there because that's what they as a team wanted. When it comes to the story and the game there's less of it feeling shoehorned in. There's what? One gay couple that's somewhat prominent in the game? There's very little preaching too.
But then look at Starfield, an overall disappointing game - and, people lost their shit over the game including non-binary as an option. BG3 has it too by the way.
Ultimately: You can get away with a lot more woke stuff if you just make good products. The reason people are fed up with it is because it's more often than not included in videogames, movies and TV shows that's not very good from the start.
I mean the gay couple in bg3 was kinda preachy and over the top
@@humanbeans4498 But not about being gay though?
@@rogierb5945 Decline in gaming? That's an odd phrase, because as a game BG3 is not bad - not even at all.
I could agree it's proof that people will accept a lot, if things are good. But, that's a societal decline if you ask me, not gaming.
I would argue even if you toned down the "woke" in BG3 it would be equally as good. Because to me, the woke in that game never stood in the way of the overall experience. Your feelings about it might differ of course.
As a contract developer over 35 years working at 26 different companies in many different areas of business and government, I can say that the vast majority of organisations have gone done this path.
1. Bullshit replacing competence as the way to success.
2. Any idea from management has to cheered on no matter how foolish otherwise “you’re very negative
3. “Only work on things that make money, save money, or comply with regulation” is wrongthink
4. Employees thinking work where an employers have to life interesting and exciting or else
Welcome to the endarkenment
. . . I truly do not understand what you mean with #4 I think you might be missing some words or got a few typos or something
I can't parse point #4 either - what'd you mean there?
It seems like the entire point of the project was to permanently kill off the entire SR IP brand as a whole as form of *MALICIOUS COMPLIANCE* through the Embracer Group Corporate Mandate to make a New SR game with very intentional *WEAPONISED INCOMPETENCE* by making it soo unfun, boring & intentionally terribly written & directed to the point where no other game studio in the world would ever want to touch it or go anywhere near it ever again.. 🤨
This video is inaccurate, 2:40 every update and DLC on that roadmap was released.
I was going to comment the same thing.
I'm no fan of the reboot but at least be accurate with your criticisms.
Wokeness killed another company 🤦♂️
Thank you. I wish to see more dev interviews from you and other UA-camrs. It's extremely interesting for me 🎉
This should be interesting
I think this is because producers are not responsible enough for the money invested. If the people who originally worked on the IP no longer care about it, the producer should find out about that (through drilling from product managers, or whoever) and then decide to kick those people off the team, hire up a new team that is passionate about the IP and has experience in the industry, and then have them work on the game.
Yes, it's more work from the producer, but that's what their job is. This is why investment and outside interest can be good, if internal creative interest in an IP dries up.
Saints Row Fauls:
- Bad production (lack of attention to hiring the right people, lack of understanding the IP)
- Bad management (low pay; restricted creative vision; lazy and careless supervision, bad time management)
Perfect video as embracer implodes and apparently gearbox is being sold to some company not yet announced (currently rumored to be xbox)
Apparently it’s just a group of investors maybe Microsoft and Sony are involved. Higher interest rates I think would make Microsoft pause buying another developer. However pitching in 100 million wouldn’t be too difficult.
15:00 Dave deserves a goddam raise for these voices 😂
I think the exact same shit happened with Rocksteady.
Can't wait to hear THAT postmortem.
Dave input as the other voice was a good idea. Keep it up Lads.
30 years, gone. Please SOMEONE buy Saints Row IP. Bring back the old, crazy, boob filled, dong sword, crazy weird, Saints Row.
12:16 ah, Hitman, the famous struggle snuggle simulator
Saints Row isn't a series I really got into (not my speed), but you'd have to be an utter _moron_ to think that _changing what a series is about_ will lose you fans, sales, and ultimately _money._ That's like if GTA suddenly decided to be a _farming simulator._
This is like, actually game journalism. Loved this.
Looking at the Gameplay footage in the background, didn't know you could play as Jim Sterling in Saints Row 5
1. Publishers force devs to make their games a certain way
2. Game suck as a direct result of non-developers making development decisions
3. Instead of realizing this was a result their own meddling with the development process they blame the dev studio and shut them down
This is EXACTLY why the games industry is crashing.
Hey, if they do what he said and give the IP to the Eastern Europeans who give me an Adidas life gangsta as fuck game then I will give the IP another chance, haha.
Dave, your vocal skills are amazing 😂😂
I admit, I liked Saint's Row 4. The over the top absurdity works for me. I was interested in SR5 until I saw the trailer which had me put it on the 'wait until more comes out about it' backburner, then when everything else came out, I figured I'd just stick with the Saint's Row games I've got and call it good.
I knew of Saints Row all these years but never had time to play until recently when a friend of mine caught it for free on the network store. I played it, and I thought it was juvenile at best. I found the characters to be bland, preachy, and I couldn't care about any of them. I liked the customization but not the masculine way my lady boss walked, as well as her lack of jiggle. Once we beat the game I felt like I'd been ripped off. The npc hero cat was corny, the story left too many open plot holes and unanswered questions 🙄
Then I played 4. By comparison, I LOVED 4. There were a few parts that I didn't like very much but I had a blast playing it and making some badass avatars. I think I might even play through it again.
The reboot, though? No thanks. I'm kind of a completionist, but yeah, no thanks. I might go back and play the previous games, but I'm kind of content with what I've played.
I wish Volition would have just done a remaster of the anthology. Certainly that could have lined their pockets better and it would have kept fans pacified until a better 5 experience could be released. Wishful thinking, though.
It actually sounds alot like how Konami was with their franchises.
Only they ended up succeeding regardless of corporate meddling.
Actually unhinged behavior shitting on your fanbase for disliking the direction you took and then playing victim as they lose their careers
No sympathy for stupidity
11:16 great work editor :D
Eastern European Devs to the rescue!!
Once again proving that "get woke go broke" is a real thing
At this point I’m willing to learn how to develop my own saint’s row with blackjack and Hookers
I think your assessment at the end aligns pretty well with Razorfist’s postulation that a company leaning heavily into leftist virtuoso is not necessarily the cause, but the litmus test for said company’s failure. “Go broke, get woke, eventually croak.”
the thing is, if you addressed why gang culture is prevalent within the black community, which it is, people would just complain how the game is being political and being woke, bringing up the past and historical context why black people are more driven towards gangs and crime. E.g because of centuries of racism and racial incarceration and black people feeling like they have no other option as people dont take them seriously. People would complain the game is being too political
that message would have also told the whole oppressed minority rising up through uniting storyline , all they would have had to do was watch a few hood interviews nowadays lol, there’s ways to promote sensible leftist views that are actually interesting and not garbage.
I'll catch this later, but great work Dev! This is more journalism than professional game journos do in a whole year!
Saint's Row 4, serious? It was a pure comedy.
In fact, I'll say it. I love SR4. It's hilarious from start to finish and I know it's not what some fans wanted.. but on it's own merits it's one of the best comedic games out there.
"it might take 5, 10, 15 years, but I think we'll be seeing a lot of these companies go the way of Volition"
Ooooooooooooor 2 months???? LMAO
"Get Woke, Go Broke" is more of a virus that a one two punch. That virus keeps swirling within your company until your company implodes on itself.
Dev on dev violence
You do such a variety of topics, and well researched too. Your channel is awesome Dev, hope its doing well for you, that would be well deserved.
Thanks a ton!
@ShortFatOtaku Sorry that your videos have to keep going to the other channel because of demonatization. You've taught me so much about politics and got me to take a look at books I would have never glanced at.
Quite interesting. We need more people actually digging up stuff like this.
Saints Row was one of the dumbest game series to try and make 'woke.' Sh*t I even loved the original game (which was frustrating as f*ck at times) because it was basically the GTA SA gang warfare mechanic made into it's own game.
I personally am in favor of handing Saints Row over to an Eastern Euro developer that goes full blyat on it. It would be like that True Crime game they started making in Vancouver and finished with Chinese developers who went full 80's Hong Kong action movie.