Match 4, just cast the rift bolt and the regular bolt. You might as well cast them while you can before Teferi or anything else show up. You're playing off the top of your deck anyway, so keeping it back doesn't really do you much.
Also not super sure about killing the Narset. Taking them to 1 turns off FoW and if they have Narset instead of Hullbreacher you will still get a card off of Day's Undoing. Have killed people off that 1 card lots
Just wanted to say great play to not scoop to sneak attack emrakul since Burn has some of the best odds in that scenario compared to most decks when the opp is low
For some reason a quote from the last budget legacy burn always stuck with me: "I'm so torn between how much I hate burn and how much I love winning..." We love ya Seth, keep it up
Given the second game, I think it's worth mentioning there is one thing modern Burn does well. 20-21 lands instead of 18, with fetches. Increased ability to hit land drops, with mana base thinning, means that I don't get fucked by the mana base as often in Modern burn.
@@thatonedudejake It's so, so, close. The old forum thread called it "legacy light." I think you could stuff both decks in a commander deckbox. Pauper Burn used to be the **MOST** expensive Pauper deck, by double, and least expensive Legacy deck. The prices weren't that far apart. Chain Lightning used to be ~$55 a playset. That was almost half of the pauper deck cost which propelled it to a ~$120 deck back when the second most expensive pauper deck was $60. I literally didn't have Chain Lightning in my deck at the time because "I'd rather have a second deck instead of 4 cards." After the reprints I bought my 4 Chain Lightnings for like $2 shipped. It was only ever expensive because of the short print run.
@@DonOblivious the legends chain lightning looks so nice Yeah it is really easy for me to keep building new pauper decks when I find half of a deck looking through my friend's bulk, trade a few commander cards, then spend $20 on the rest of the deck lol, my brother and I have like 20 decks built now
@@DonObliviousI built Modern, Pauper, and Legacy burn because its the cheapest way to get into modern and legscy, amd they share so many cards, it's about 150 cards for all 3, and a lot of the differences are format specific sideboard cards.
I def think suspending the rift bolt game 3 vs uw control was punt adjacent. I don't think there was any downside to just casting it for 3 that turn, you still woulda had up bolt and surely they had more tf3s than daze or flusterstorms in terms of what punishes each line. Unless I missed something, the reasoning for suspending wasn't talked thru that I noticed. I think rift bolt face for 3, hold up bolt then try and bolt face in response to tf3 was the hindsight play. But you had already seen flusterstorm, and idk if it runs daze, and that line loses to those 2. If they had fon there are arguably upsides to either line depending on the rest of the hand. I think the other line is a few % points better but it still loses to cards your line didn't, so more of a going for it on 4th and it getting intercepted 40 yards downfield than a punt. In hindsight a punt, but at time of decision a risk.
Part of the reason I feel price of progress isn't as effective as you'd think in a vacuum is that most legacy players are savvy enough to fetch basics if they can once they see you're on burn.
After playing burn for close to 2 to 3 years, I can tell for certain that no card has caused me more frustration than price of progress. It's in the best case scenario a decent spell against a deck that requires non basic lands. But for every deck that is capable of operating on basics, as soon as you drop your first spell (such as swift spear, guide, lava spike or chain lightning) they'll know or at least assume you are a burn deck and will play around it, which means you have a deck that is dependant on superspeed with four dead spells in your deck/hand. This, alongside with keeping one landers, using card draw instead of burn spells (draw for red is subpar, to say the least) is what really kills burn. Also that narset game, the opponent went to 6 life, Seth should have gone for hardcast on rift bolt, knowing that teferi is a reality, and following with bolt, it would have won him the game.
@@Hagge95 so, I was watching a video the other day, a very experienced burn player said that burn is one of the most straight forward decks when it comes to strategy to win (usually is throw it all on the opponent's face), but one of the hardest to choose what goes in and what stays out. The extremely high number of burn spells kind of give you that false sense of freedom. But when you have to many paths to take, freedom usually turns into chaos. So you need to first identify what's most prominent on your field. Then you can determine what to put in place. I'd be against playing flame rift in fields where there's great prominence of heavy small creature decks. Because you can easily chip yourself to a point where the opponent can turn the tide. Although this can also happen with big creatures, let's face it, usually marit lage will go for a one hit KO, while Emrakul will cause a board wipe, as it's rare to have more than 6 permanents on the field.
@@Burncsb Yeah, Burn is the the most brain dead simple to pilot deck while also being the most complicated deck you can play. It's the easiest deck to play badly and one of the most complicated decks to play at a high level. Knowing how to sequence spells that **seem** similar, but aren't, is hugely important. Most of the "1 Red, do 3 damage" spells have downsides and how you manage those downsides determines if you win or lose.
I'm not gonna say its Super powerful, but if you wanna jump back into budget legacy in the future, I'd check out 8-cast affinity. not the odd control variant at the top of the format but more like modern style affinity that also has access to mono color artifact lands. Seems like it can have some hyper explosive hands. Would probably be fun.
I love how Seth has to try and defend himself from the comments every time he plays Budget Magic in Legacy, and has to explain, that "Yes, a $500 IS budget in Legacy" haha
That game 4 was so difficult to watch, the double flood after being droughted in previous games was excruciating, especially given Burns low land count. Thanks for another good episode Seth!
Since you specifically asked how you may have won match 4 g3, I think there were a lot of small things but this one really stood out: At 43:16 when you suspended Rift Bolt (not a risk worth taking if you just have the mana against a T3feri deck, but that's another discussion) your opponent was at 3 life and figured they'd need to gain some life and Swords to Plowshared targeting their 1/1 Shark end of turn. I think you should definitely have tried to Lightning Bolt them in response at that point (at 43:26 to be exact). You just skipped through them Swords to Plowsharing their shark and going up to 4 while you had the Bolt in your hand and mana open. I could be missing something, but I think that was a very clear window to try and win. A small and less likely to win moment was something I would've done differently in game 2. In your last turn around 36:13 you don't cast your Exquisite Firecraft because you correctly identify that you don't have Spell Mastery. I don't think you're ever getting time to try and topdeck two more burn spells before casting it - so I would've just fired it off at them and see if they had anything or just bricked in 7 cards. Weak line either way, but I don't think your odds improve by keeping it.
Went with my friends to a legacy PTQ when i was 18. I couldnt afford a deck, and never played legacy a day in my life, so i planned on just watching, but when we got there another mutual friend said theyd let me borrow their burn deck. I got 3rd place overall. What a great feeling, burn has been my favorite deck since that day.
There's nothing I love more than watching Seth have an absolute blast playing Burn, a deck he so vocally hates. Watching him screw up sequencing on such an "easy" deck he hates is the cherry on top. Burn seems like such an easy deck from the outside, because you can play it badly on auto-pilot, but the small edge you get by using spells in the right order depending on the situation is what makes the deck. It's one of the easiest decks to play badly, and one of the hardest to play well. The amazing thing is that this deck is so close to the Pauper version. You could probably put both versions in a commander deckbox. Somewhat humorously, Pauper Burn runs either 16 or 18 lands, and this one is 19. At one point I was running 6 or 7 spells that required sacrificing a land to cast and only 16 mountains. (Shard Volley) The 4 Fireblast + 2-3 Shard Volley + 16 mountains was way too greedy, but it was fun when it worked and you fired off the "sac 3 mountains do 7 damage" turn 3/4 finishing move! I still think it's LoL that Pauper is the format where a deck runs the least lands, and like zero ramp or mana rocks. Pauper Burn is like "if I've played 4 mountains, I should scoop because I've already lost."
It's kinda insane that a 2 power 1 drop with the downside that it ramps your opponent got upgraded to a 2 power 1 drop with the upside that it ramps you, and draws you cards instead.
@@TheRealHungryHobo they're very different cards that work in different decks. powerlevel wise rag is definitely better, but in burn for example, it's just worse.
My Legacy Burn deck is under $80 on TCGPlayer, it can still win turn 3, but it pretty much requires a Fireblast to do it. The priciest card I run is Vexing Devil, which I run over Goblin Guide (and I run DRC over Swifty). It's a lot of fun to play, since it can afford to burn out creatures without running out of cards, which is unusual in Legacy Burn, which tends to lose games because it's in topdeck mode and has bad topdecks (running lots of 1 drops is a nightmare after turn 3 in my experience). DRC helps smooth out draws, while Risk Factor is a decent effect for 3 mana in my experience, 4 damage isn't great turn 3, but it's very dangerous to give 3 cards to a Burn deck, unless your opponent's deck is simply fast enough to win early, and that is very hard for Burn to deal with, Red isn't great vs combo. Goblin Guide usually makes me want to scream, I do NOT like giving decks access to more cards, even if seeing cards is useful. In tight games, it's too small and card advantage for your opponent can suck mega-hard, it reminds me of how I don't like Aether Vial, even if it's considered an amazing card (running it as a 4-of in a creature deck will mean you'll run out of creatures more often, especially vs decks that can kill your weenies) and I don't know if I'd run it if I had it.
In the last game. You hard cast rift bolt for 3, your opponent hits their token with swords to go to four, you respond by bolting their face. If they don't have the counter, bolt resolves first and they die.
Running 1 of each fetch for mountains and 4 fiery islets and putting the 4 x price of progress in the board and running 4x vexing devil in the main. That would be my suggestion.
@@egoalter1276 Dead draws are what really kill you in burn. You are in a format with the absolute best card draw in the game (brainstorm and ponder in combo with fetch lands to shuffle away bad cards) and wasteland and life from the loam can shut down many strategies on it's own and if you want to be fast enough to race combo and resilient enough to outlast control and overwhelm stax? You need versatility, utility and the narrow edge of any advantage you can find to tilt the skills in your favor. Fetch lands and Firey Islets in a deck list with approx 17 or 18 lands allow you to do this. The Vexing Devils force your opponents with bad removal into poor choices and those that have it will not enjoy your 4 of of Price of Progress burning them out from the board. Look at Tom Ross for inspiration.
@@egoalter1276 Yes, they absolutely can. I am going to go deep a bit. if you already know this stuff just ignore me ok? I love the game. So: 1. Your opponent has a wasteland and You are holding an Arid Mesa. You play your land for turn and calmly pass knowing that if he or she tries to crack his wasteland to destroy your land you can easily fetch and get a basic (also useful against Blood Moon decks. 2. You can easily play dual lands (Shock lands or what have you) if you need to splash a second color so long as they have a basic land type but your opponent won't know which type until you decide to pull the trigger. 3. Some decks like to manipulate the top of your library (put stuff on top, mill your top card or just check your draw or reveal it of a Goblin Guide) and fetches can allow you to shuffle away a dead draw or effectively stifle your opponent's trigger by doing so after they have committed resources to change the info available. Each of these are corner cases and there are certainly others. They all provide a way to keep something (by seeking out small advantages) that can be very important: tempo. Hope that makes sense.
I remember my buddies wanted to hit a legacy gp, I had never played the format before but I decided why not I’ve played lots of pauper and modern burn so I knew the deck just had to learn the format, spent that month grinding on mtgo ended up getting just out of the money on day 2 I think I was 68 it was hype af I also beat show and tell for the first time at that tournament haha
Considering how cheap the deck is I'm thinking of building it in paper just in case I ever want to play a Legacy tournament. No way I'm spending $4000+ on another deck, but it would be cool to have the option to play paper Legacy in case it ever came up.
@@stevesmith5883 I’ve done the same before in cedh! Dangerous game to play especially if there’s any deck at the table that might have Stony Silence/Ouphe.
roiling vortex seems insane in legacy cause it makes alle the force spells basically unplayable if its in play. It will shoot them for 5 cause they didnt spend any mana to cast them, so if anything maybe board in more?
Isn't Vortex pretty good against Delver because of Daze, FoN and FoW each doin 5 Dmg if Vortex sticks to the field? Or why is Burn boardin it out against Delver?
I proved it can 5-0 about a year ago. I had countless 4-1's and would 3-2 at least 85% of the time. I might pick it back up and break a few hearts in the MTGO leagues. 🤪 I love these videos
Seth, never concede to Oops until they show you the Oracle AND the Dread Return. They only play 1 each and with no Brainstorm, it's not out of the question that they get stuck in hand.
Doesn't matter. They can dump oracle and dread return into grave with cabal therapy. And they keep enough creatures to dread return because bridge from below
I'm not a burn vs oops all spells expert, but to me it looks like the whole combo falls apart if you can kill any of the Narcoamoebas. Missing one damage from prowess doesn't change the clock (1hp vs 2hp), so you could hold onto instant burn and at worst you could throw it during the end step if opponent doesn't try to go off. And if they do, they also need pact to stop you from bolting their combo away.
I think the problem is they also mill Bridge from Below, so if a Narcomoebia dies it will get replaced by a Zombie token (or maybe multiple Zombie tokens, if they have more than one Bridge). Otherwise you'd be right that killing Narco would fizzle the combo since they wouldn't be able to reanimate.
189 is not ultra budget. Relatively cheap yes, but ultra budget is somewhere between 20-30€. There is a reanimator, infect, boggles, and some combos that can easily fit in less than 50€ for an actually competetive version, and 20€ if going for a more luck dependent builds. There is also cheaper version of burn without eidolons and goblin guides that could fit in the actual ultra budget category.
Average cost of a modern deck is $1,167, so it would be the equivalent of playing a $48 deck. Average cost of a standard deck is $280 , equivalent being an $11 deck which is hilarious to think about.
Den of the bug bear, Gemstone mine, Vivid Cragg, Spinerock Knoll, Mount Doom, Dragonskull Summit… thanks Wizards of the Coast.. for forgetting to add that they count as a mountain… Making it harder to incorporate you know what. Btw does great furnace count as a mountain or not?
I like the idea of a budget deck, but because the answer is always monored, it gets kind of boring. Also around 43 minutes, ¿Why did you suspend the card instead of just paying 3 to burn? you had more than enough mana to try to go for the win right over there, specially if you saw the opponent desperate to gain life... meaning he had no more counters in hand?
The idea of suspending Rift Bolt was that we'd hopefully draw another burn spell the following turn and be able to triple spell to get through counters. It was probably a bad plan though against a deck with Teferi.
Would Manamorphose be any good in here, possibly instead of Light Up the Stage? Gives you a way to hardcast Leyline of the Void. Alternatively, is a different graveyard-killer better, such as Tormod's Crypt?
Neither LutS Nor Morphose should be in a Burn Deck. You don't want/need to thin your deck. Also LutS has some real non-synergy with cards in the deck, like Rift Bolt. Just play another Bolt variant instead.
its too bad we cant know if your opponent had a counter in hand. the way they were playing the mage and plowshering it to get to 6 kinda feels as if they didnt had counters in hand. but i dont see the line where suspending the rift bolt can do anything better for you since you were flodded anyway. really exciting match though!!!!
Why just 2 red blasts? With the current legacy metagame of delver, 8cast, control and other random things, I think at least 4 is worth it. Maybe more if you also want to play pyroblasts.
@@Tupiaz You know, ill admit I havent played legacy burn in ages, even if the list looks practically the same. However back in my boomer days, you used red blast either to force a fireblast/price of progress for the win through counters, or to stop someone from comboing before you burn them out (blast stops show an tell, and severely slows 8 cast and storm if you hit the right card draw spell) I get that 4 leylines are a must, but given how blue piles still dominate the format to this day I'd still argue for 4 blasts (in a 2/2 split) to get make those match up a bit easier.
@@SilverAlex92 Better to have Exquisite Firecraft to solve that problem. Deals 4 damage and usually can't be countered. You get in a lot of to decking situation and Exquisite Firecraft is just better to have. I think there should have been two in the board. Since the meta is so blue at the moment two main makes sense but usually I would have them in them all in the board. You want one REB/Pyroblast not two. I Would run 2-1 split. Usually Im more in favour of Surgical Extraction rather than Leylines especially for burn. Because of you need to be muligan aggressively and end up with dead cards later on. Meltdown seems like it should have been in the sidebord. It works great against 8 cast but also other combo decks. Would have cut down on Price of Progress and played 2-3 rolling Vortex. Sidebord 1-2 Pyroblast (you can still getter triggers of Swiftspear if the creature is not blue). 1 Red Elemental blast 2 Exquisite Firecraft 3-4 Surgical Extraction 1-2 Grafdigger's Cage/Tormod's Crypt 3 Meltdown. 2 Searing Blood
@@MTGGoldfish yes, around 16:18... it was the REALLY dredge deck. I haven't played anything of legacy since... uh... 25 years, and those options didn't exist then.
opponent: loses life to force of will.
Seth: you fell right into my trap!!!
Match 4, just cast the rift bolt and the regular bolt. You might as well cast them while you can before Teferi or anything else show up. You're playing off the top of your deck anyway, so keeping it back doesn't really do you much.
Yeah, I should have played that turn differently. Suspending was probably too risky vs. a Teferi deck.
@@MTGGoldfish Also I wonder if it is possible to fit a couple manlands there... feels like they would help sometimes...
Also not super sure about killing the Narset. Taking them to 1 turns off FoW and if they have Narset instead of Hullbreacher you will still get a card off of Day's Undoing. Have killed people off that 1 card lots
@@josecelsoff you'd probably have to cut Price of Progress then, but isn't the worst idea
@@josecelsoff Den of the Bugbear is really the only option for the deck. I don't think it can afford to run colorless lands.
Just wanted to say great play to not scoop to sneak attack emrakul since Burn has some of the best odds in that scenario compared to most decks when the opp is low
Yeah, there's a chance that we can draw a couple of lands and burn them out, not likely, but also not impossible.
In this match, ensnaring bridge are good ?? 1 our 2 in the side
For some reason a quote from the last budget legacy burn always stuck with me: "I'm so torn between how much I hate burn and how much I love winning..."
We love ya Seth, keep it up
189$ vs 4,000$+
and the winner is....
0.3$ pile of basics that didn't show up on time
I love how many decks Seth runs basics from invasion in, they are my favorite basics in all of magic.
Some of my favorites too.
Given the second game, I think it's worth mentioning there is one thing modern Burn does well. 20-21 lands instead of 18, with fetches. Increased ability to hit land drops, with mana base thinning, means that I don't get fucked by the mana base as often in Modern burn.
The non budget version of this deck likely would do that too.
Cracks me up how this is cheaper than Modern Burn.
almost the same as pauper burn.. minus the creatures lol
@@thatonedudejake It's so, so, close. The old forum thread called it "legacy light." I think you could stuff both decks in a commander deckbox.
Pauper Burn used to be the **MOST** expensive Pauper deck, by double, and least expensive Legacy deck. The prices weren't that far apart. Chain Lightning used to be ~$55 a playset. That was almost half of the pauper deck cost which propelled it to a ~$120 deck back when the second most expensive pauper deck was $60. I literally didn't have Chain Lightning in my deck at the time because "I'd rather have a second deck instead of 4 cards."
After the reprints I bought my 4 Chain Lightnings for like $2 shipped. It was only ever expensive because of the short print run.
@@DonOblivious the legends chain lightning looks so nice
Yeah it is really easy for me to keep building new pauper decks when I find half of a deck looking through my friend's bulk, trade a few commander cards, then spend $20 on the rest of the deck lol, my brother and I have like 20 decks built now
@@DonObliviousI built Modern, Pauper, and Legacy burn because its the cheapest way to get into modern and legscy, amd they share so many cards, it's about 150 cards for all 3, and a lot of the differences are format specific sideboard cards.
"Goblin Guide the best red one drop of all time."
- Ragavan has entered the chat
Not even mentioning the Swiftspear sitting right there.
Ragavan is banned in Legacy
@@natejablonski That doesn't not make him the best red one drop ever
@@natejablonski if anything thats a indication that it is, as the other are able to be played
@@Razzia334 Ragavan is a great 1cmc permanent and an amazing two drop.
It's an average one drop outside of legacy.
I def think suspending the rift bolt game 3 vs uw control was punt adjacent. I don't think there was any downside to just casting it for 3 that turn, you still woulda had up bolt and surely they had more tf3s than daze or flusterstorms in terms of what punishes each line.
Unless I missed something, the reasoning for suspending wasn't talked thru that I noticed.
I think rift bolt face for 3, hold up bolt then try and bolt face in response to tf3 was the hindsight play. But you had already seen flusterstorm, and idk if it runs daze, and that line loses to those 2. If they had fon there are arguably upsides to either line depending on the rest of the hand.
I think the other line is a few % points better but it still loses to cards your line didn't, so more of a going for it on 4th and it getting intercepted 40 yards downfield than a punt. In hindsight a punt, but at time of decision a risk.
Part of the reason I feel price of progress isn't as effective as you'd think in a vacuum is that most legacy players are savvy enough to fetch basics if they can once they see you're on burn.
Aye, 4 is too many.
And legacy has so many answers to awkward mana.
After playing burn for close to 2 to 3 years, I can tell for certain that no card has caused me more frustration than price of progress. It's in the best case scenario a decent spell against a deck that requires non basic lands. But for every deck that is capable of operating on basics, as soon as you drop your first spell (such as swift spear, guide, lava spike or chain lightning) they'll know or at least assume you are a burn deck and will play around it, which means you have a deck that is dependant on superspeed with four dead spells in your deck/hand. This, alongside with keeping one landers, using card draw instead of burn spells (draw for red is subpar, to say the least) is what really kills burn. Also that narset game, the opponent went to 6 life, Seth should have gone for hardcast on rift bolt, knowing that teferi is a reality, and following with bolt, it would have won him the game.
I don't play legacy or burn. Is there any argument to playing flame rift over PoP?
@@Hagge95 I'd say a 2/2 split might be decent. I don't play either though or maybe the red two mana impulse card might be decent.
@@Hagge95 so, I was watching a video the other day, a very experienced burn player said that burn is one of the most straight forward decks when it comes to strategy to win (usually is throw it all on the opponent's face), but one of the hardest to choose what goes in and what stays out. The extremely high number of burn spells kind of give you that false sense of freedom. But when you have to many paths to take, freedom usually turns into chaos. So you need to first identify what's most prominent on your field. Then you can determine what to put in place. I'd be against playing flame rift in fields where there's great prominence of heavy small creature decks. Because you can easily chip yourself to a point where the opponent can turn the tide. Although this can also happen with big creatures, let's face it, usually marit lage will go for a one hit KO, while Emrakul will cause a board wipe, as it's rare to have more than 6 permanents on the field.
@@Burncsb Yeah, Burn is the the most brain dead simple to pilot deck while also being the most complicated deck you can play. It's the easiest deck to play badly and one of the most complicated decks to play at a high level. Knowing how to sequence spells that **seem** similar, but aren't, is hugely important. Most of the "1 Red, do 3 damage" spells have downsides and how you manage those downsides determines if you win or lose.
I play ensnaring bridge in my burn sideboard for the omnitell match ups. Glad to see this deck getting some love! GG Seth!
i play ashen rider for show and tell! XD
@@Kakwann how many ?
How many ?
@@viniciuspimentel1558 about 4. I hate that match.
@@viniciuspimentel1558 1 or 2 depending on how heavily I think show and tell is gonna be played
I'm not gonna say its Super powerful, but if you wanna jump back into budget legacy in the future, I'd check out 8-cast affinity. not the odd control variant at the top of the format but more like modern style affinity that also has access to mono color artifact lands. Seems like it can have some hyper explosive hands. Would probably be fun.
I love how Seth has to try and defend himself from the comments every time he plays Budget Magic in Legacy, and has to explain, that "Yes, a $500 IS budget in Legacy" haha
Burn in Legacy is fun to play, since everyone is dedicated to meta each other. Some dubious plays and more dedicated side vs OmniTell and you are gas
"burn is fun in it's own weird way" this needs to be a quote for the stream bot
That game 4 was so difficult to watch, the double flood after being droughted in previous games was excruciating, especially given Burns low land count. Thanks for another good episode Seth!
Since you specifically asked how you may have won match 4 g3, I think there were a lot of small things but this one really stood out:
At 43:16 when you suspended Rift Bolt (not a risk worth taking if you just have the mana against a T3feri deck, but that's another discussion) your opponent was at 3 life and figured they'd need to gain some life and Swords to Plowshared targeting their 1/1 Shark end of turn. I think you should definitely have tried to Lightning Bolt them in response at that point (at 43:26 to be exact). You just skipped through them Swords to Plowsharing their shark and going up to 4 while you had the Bolt in your hand and mana open.
I could be missing something, but I think that was a very clear window to try and win.
A small and less likely to win moment was something I would've done differently in game 2. In your last turn around 36:13 you don't cast your Exquisite Firecraft because you correctly identify that you don't have Spell Mastery. I don't think you're ever getting time to try and topdeck two more burn spells before casting it - so I would've just fired it off at them and see if they had anything or just bricked in 7 cards. Weak line either way, but I don't think your odds improve by keeping it.
You know it's Legacy when the games are so spicy you have to change shirts for the last round.
The art for this vod is amazing
Please do more legacy! It's one of my favorite formats to watch!
Went with my friends to a legacy PTQ when i was 18. I couldnt afford a deck, and never played legacy a day in my life, so i planned on just watching, but when we got there another mutual friend said theyd let me borrow their burn deck. I got 3rd place overall. What a great feeling, burn has been my favorite deck since that day.
imagine taking out a mortgage to buy a deck just to get beaten by a weirdly colored olive playing burn spells
30:32
Gotta appreciate the fact that Zev piloting ultra-budget Burn managed to win the race against a Show and Tell / Omniscience deck.
lacagy is really such a fun interactive format even though it has so much power in it
There's nothing I love more than watching Seth have an absolute blast playing Burn, a deck he so vocally hates. Watching him screw up sequencing on such an "easy" deck he hates is the cherry on top. Burn seems like such an easy deck from the outside, because you can play it badly on auto-pilot, but the small edge you get by using spells in the right order depending on the situation is what makes the deck. It's one of the easiest decks to play badly, and one of the hardest to play well.
The amazing thing is that this deck is so close to the Pauper version. You could probably put both versions in a commander deckbox. Somewhat humorously, Pauper Burn runs either 16 or 18 lands, and this one is 19. At one point I was running 6 or 7 spells that required sacrificing a land to cast and only 16 mountains. (Shard Volley) The 4 Fireblast + 2-3 Shard Volley + 16 mountains was way too greedy, but it was fun when it worked and you fired off the "sac 3 mountains do 7 damage" turn 3/4 finishing move!
I still think it's LoL that Pauper is the format where a deck runs the least lands, and like zero ramp or mana rocks. Pauper Burn is like "if I've played 4 mountains, I should scoop because I've already lost."
Thumbnail spot on
I mean Goblin Guide got reprintings, it also slid down to #3 on best red 1 drops ever printed tho.
It's kinda insane that a 2 power 1 drop with the downside that it ramps your opponent got upgraded to a 2 power 1 drop with the upside that it ramps you, and draws you cards instead.
But isn’t ragavan banned in legacy?
@@itsallenwow Yeah but I think modern drives prices much more than legacy.
1. Ragavan
2. DRC
3. Goblin Guide
@@TheRealHungryHobo they're very different cards that work in different decks. powerlevel wise rag is definitely better, but in burn for example, it's just worse.
That thumbnail though... thanks for the legacy content!
My Legacy Burn deck is under $80 on TCGPlayer, it can still win turn 3, but it pretty much requires a Fireblast to do it. The priciest card I run is Vexing Devil, which I run over Goblin Guide (and I run DRC over Swifty). It's a lot of fun to play, since it can afford to burn out creatures without running out of cards, which is unusual in Legacy Burn, which tends to lose games because it's in topdeck mode and has bad topdecks (running lots of 1 drops is a nightmare after turn 3 in my experience). DRC helps smooth out draws, while Risk Factor is a decent effect for 3 mana in my experience, 4 damage isn't great turn 3, but it's very dangerous to give 3 cards to a Burn deck, unless your opponent's deck is simply fast enough to win early, and that is very hard for Burn to deal with, Red isn't great vs combo. Goblin Guide usually makes me want to scream, I do NOT like giving decks access to more cards, even if seeing cards is useful. In tight games, it's too small and card advantage for your opponent can suck mega-hard, it reminds me of how I don't like Aether Vial, even if it's considered an amazing card (running it as a 4-of in a creature deck will mean you'll run out of creatures more often, especially vs decks that can kill your weenies) and I don't know if I'd run it if I had it.
Modern/legacy burn will always be competitive simply by being redundant.
It's amusing that Lava Spike and Chain Lightning manage to not be strictly worse than Lightning Bolt purely because they aren't named Lightning Bolt.
Burn sets the floor. Any meta where Burn is relevant is a healthy meta.
It helps, that lightning bolt is probanly the second most mana efficient spell in the game after ancestral recall.
In the last game. You hard cast rift bolt for 3, your opponent hits their token with swords to go to four, you respond by bolting their face. If they don't have the counter, bolt resolves first and they die.
Seth with ANOTHER banger band shirt.
Stop being so good at music Seth.
Running 1 of each fetch for mountains and 4 fiery islets and putting the 4 x price of progress in the board and running 4x vexing devil in the main.
That would be my suggestion.
Good suggestions.
Whx are fetch lands superipr to just 4 more mountains in this case?
@@egoalter1276 Dead draws are what really kill you in burn. You are in a format with the absolute best card draw in the game (brainstorm and ponder in combo with fetch lands to shuffle away bad cards) and wasteland and life from the loam can shut down many strategies on it's own and if you want to be fast enough to race combo and resilient enough to outlast control and overwhelm stax? You need versatility, utility and the narrow edge of any advantage you can find to tilt the skills in your favor.
Fetch lands and Firey Islets in a deck list with approx 17 or 18 lands allow you to do this.
The Vexing Devils force your opponents with bad removal into poor choices and those that have it will not enjoy your 4 of of Price of Progress burning them out from the board.
Look at Tom Ross for inspiration.
@@danlewis7707 So they are basically serving just as dual lands, but avoid the self damage of price of progress?
@@egoalter1276 Yes, they absolutely can.
I am going to go deep a bit. if you already know this stuff just ignore me ok? I love the game.
So:
1. Your opponent has a wasteland and You are holding an Arid Mesa. You play your land for turn and calmly pass knowing that if he or she tries to crack his wasteland to destroy your land you can easily fetch and get a basic (also useful against Blood Moon decks.
2. You can easily play dual lands (Shock lands or what have you) if you need to splash a second color so long as they have a basic land type but your opponent won't know which type until you decide to pull the trigger.
3. Some decks like to manipulate the top of your library (put stuff on top, mill your top card or just check your draw or reveal it of a Goblin Guide) and fetches can allow you to shuffle away a dead draw or effectively stifle your opponent's trigger by doing so after they have committed resources to change the info available.
Each of these are corner cases and there are certainly others. They all provide a way to keep something (by seeking out small advantages) that can be very important: tempo.
Hope that makes sense.
Always fun to see Seth revisit an old deck
Glad to see more legacy. Keep em' coming!
great video as always seth but i was just wondering how much does your deck cost vs other legacy deck? thanks
I LOVE YOUR THUMBNAIL. Awesome memes
I remember my buddies wanted to hit a legacy gp, I had never played the format before but I decided why not I’ve played lots of pauper and modern burn so I knew the deck just had to learn the format, spent that month grinding on mtgo ended up getting just out of the money on day 2 I think I was 68 it was hype af I also beat show and tell for the first time at that tournament haha
Watching again because legacy content is so scarce and this video is awesome
Match 5 really went: "Yeah that's a neat combo you got there, anyway . . ."
"Come on land!!!" - Seth, every turn of every game. lol
After keeping a one lander lol.
Seth, it feels like youre luring me into Legacy with this deck
Considering how cheap the deck is I'm thinking of building it in paper just in case I ever want to play a Legacy tournament. No way I'm spending $4000+ on another deck, but it would be cool to have the option to play paper Legacy in case it ever came up.
flame rift over exquisite firecraft seems easy
Who the hell constantly keeps a one land hand in ANY format...?
Every burn player ever. Lol
Jhoira cEDH filled with fast mana rocks, I've kept 0 landers ;)
@@stevesmith5883 I’ve done the same before in cedh! Dangerous game to play especially if there’s any deck at the table that might have Stony Silence/Ouphe.
31:00 amazing gamble and it played out!
roiling vortex seems insane in legacy cause it makes alle the force spells basically unplayable if its in play. It will shoot them for 5 cause they didnt spend any mana to cast them, so if anything maybe board in more?
Isn't Vortex pretty good against Delver because of Daze, FoN and FoW each doin 5 Dmg if Vortex sticks to the field? Or why is Burn boardin it out against Delver?
Always wondered if satyr fire dancer was a good little addition to this deck? It has a nice interaction with searing blood.
God the reserve list was a mistake. Cool deck!!
It's causing an entire format to die.... sad.
Very first game: that tundra was more expensive than the entire burn deck.
Times 3 lol
@@princeLaharl2 You can get a tundra in MP/HP for about $350.
@@Tupiaz but mine's are LP 😆
I proved it can 5-0 about a year ago. I had countless 4-1's and would 3-2 at least 85% of the time. I might pick it back up and break a few hearts in the MTGO leagues. 🤪 I love these videos
Seth, never concede to Oops until they show you the Oracle AND the Dread Return. They only play 1 each and with no Brainstorm, it's not out of the question that they get stuck in hand.
Doesn't matter. They can dump oracle and dread return into grave with cabal therapy. And they keep enough creatures to dread return because bridge from below
Seth, I love you, all these videos are great series. but please, could you not introduce the deck every single time you start a game, please? :p
You are a genius of budget magic man ^^
The problem with lands is that ponder and brainstorm are part of your manabase in legacy. That's why every deck plays blue haha
I'm not a burn vs oops all spells expert, but to me it looks like the whole combo falls apart if you can kill any of the Narcoamoebas. Missing one damage from prowess doesn't change the clock (1hp vs 2hp), so you could hold onto instant burn and at worst you could throw it during the end step if opponent doesn't try to go off. And if they do, they also need pact to stop you from bolting their combo away.
I think the problem is they also mill Bridge from Below, so if a Narcomoebia dies it will get replaced by a Zombie token (or maybe multiple Zombie tokens, if they have more than one Bridge). Otherwise you'd be right that killing Narco would fizzle the combo since they wouldn't be able to reanimate.
@@MTGGoldfish And here's why I am not a burn vs oops all spells expert x)
Yay legacy content!
Five years ago… wow you are making me feel old Seth
Game 2 Against Oops, wouldn't it be safer to play Roiling Vortex because most of their spells are free?
Firecraft isnt legacy exclusive. There was a point it was in modern burn sb and fireblast is maindecked in pauper burn
189 is not ultra budget. Relatively cheap yes, but ultra budget is somewhere between 20-30€. There is a reanimator, infect, boggles, and some combos that can easily fit in less than 50€ for an actually competetive version, and 20€ if going for a more luck dependent builds. There is also cheaper version of burn without eidolons and goblin guides that could fit in the actual ultra budget category.
Average cost of a modern deck is $1,167, so it would be the equivalent of playing a $48 deck.
Average cost of a standard deck is $280 , equivalent being an $11 deck which is hilarious to think about.
Den of the bug bear, Gemstone mine, Vivid Cragg, Spinerock Knoll, Mount Doom, Dragonskull Summit… thanks Wizards of the Coast.. for forgetting to add that they count as a mountain… Making it harder to incorporate you know what. Btw does great furnace count as a mountain or not?
I played legacy worlds for 5 years... came in 9th 5 straight years... I wish I could still play it
Not my favourite format but my favourite content creator.
why no flame rift? also i would have a grim lavamancer in the board
Seth Roiling Vortex hates on forces. You really should keep it in and side in more va blue decks.
round 5 is Omni sneak (closer to Sneak and show) not Omni tell
You might want 4 red blasts in the sideboard
That flood at 42:00 was ungodly.
I went 5-2 in a 70 person tournament playing budget zoo 😁
Price of progress and Fireblast? How can it even lose tbh.
One-landers and never drawing the second Mountain
I like the idea of a budget deck, but because the answer is always monored, it gets kind of boring. Also around 43 minutes, ¿Why did you suspend the card instead of just paying 3 to burn? you had more than enough mana to try to go for the win right over there, specially if you saw the opponent desperate to gain life... meaning he had no more counters in hand?
The idea of suspending Rift Bolt was that we'd hopefully draw another burn spell the following turn and be able to triple spell to get through counters. It was probably a bad plan though against a deck with Teferi.
I'm curious if Demonfire could make it in a burn list against control as a last resort finisher. Hmmm
Ah, basic Mountain. The bedrock of all good budget decks.
Lol, sounds like a joke, but actually the truth.
Yoooo, that modest mouse shirt, tho’ 👀
Rolling vortex work against FoW and FoN so it was good in the first match ?
Love the meme thumbnail lmao
Would Manamorphose be any good in here, possibly instead of Light Up the Stage? Gives you a way to hardcast Leyline of the Void. Alternatively, is a different graveyard-killer better, such as Tormod's Crypt?
Neither LutS Nor Morphose should be in a Burn Deck.
You don't want/need to thin your deck.
Also LutS has some real non-synergy with cards in the deck, like Rift Bolt.
Just play another Bolt variant instead.
fireblast is not legacy exclusive, it's also a pauper staple!
its too bad we cant know if your opponent had a counter in hand. the way they were playing the mage and plowshering it to get to 6 kinda feels as if they didnt had counters in hand. but i dont see the line where suspending the rift bolt can do anything better for you since you were flodded anyway. really exciting match though!!!!
love the thumbnail lol
Are you not supposed to mulligan 1 landers?
Yes
Just curious, why no Dragon Rage Channelers? the surveil sounds good to keep from drawing lands when flooding or the opposite.
DRC is good if you can get delirium. putting it in just for the sake of surveilling is just slow for burn
Awesome video!
What an original budget idea!
9:48
Have you heard of Kappa Cannoneer?
I just want to know, what program does he play on?
Is there any reason to have fury? It seems pretty free here
I copied the same deck years ago for $99 lmfao. I guess inflation hit mtg cards too?
44:00 just use your bolt in hand to kill teferi and let the bolt on suspend resolve and hit opponent in face
Teferis static, cant instant-speed the bolt
Why isn't every deck in legacy (that's not blue) playing 4 void mirror in the main?
Why just 2 red blasts? With the current legacy metagame of delver, 8cast, control and other random things, I think at least 4 is worth it. Maybe more if you also want to play pyroblasts.
Problem is you also want to win and Red Elemental/Pyroblast doesn't win you the game.
@@Tupiaz You know, ill admit I havent played legacy burn in ages, even if the list looks practically the same. However back in my boomer days, you used red blast either to force a fireblast/price of progress for the win through counters, or to stop someone from comboing before you burn them out (blast stops show an tell, and severely slows 8 cast and storm if you hit the right card draw spell)
I get that 4 leylines are a must, but given how blue piles still dominate the format to this day I'd still argue for 4 blasts (in a 2/2 split) to get make those match up a bit easier.
@@SilverAlex92 Better to have Exquisite Firecraft to solve that problem. Deals 4 damage and usually can't be countered. You get in a lot of to decking situation and Exquisite Firecraft is just better to have. I think there should have been two in the board. Since the meta is so blue at the moment two main makes sense but usually I would have them in them all in the board. You want one REB/Pyroblast not two. I Would run 2-1 split. Usually Im more in favour of Surgical Extraction rather than Leylines especially for burn. Because of you need to be muligan aggressively and end up with dead cards later on. Meltdown seems like it should have been in the sidebord. It works great against 8 cast but also other combo decks. Would have cut down on Price of Progress and played 2-3 rolling Vortex.
Sidebord
1-2 Pyroblast (you can still getter triggers of Swiftspear if the creature is not blue).
1 Red Elemental blast
2 Exquisite Firecraft
3-4 Surgical Extraction
1-2 Grafdigger's Cage/Tormod's Crypt
3 Meltdown.
2 Searing Blood
@@Tupiaz 3 blasts I can get behind playing. Also yeah, exquisite is pretty awesome against control/ Haven't really thought about that
Is there somewhere that explains the 2nd game better? Not a legacy player so it was a brief description.
If you give me a time stamp I'll try to explain it. I'm not 100% sure which part your talking about.
@@MTGGoldfish yes, around 16:18... it was the REALLY dredge deck. I haven't played anything of legacy since... uh... 25 years, and those options didn't exist then.
I love this thumbnail
Love when you play legacy!
The thumbnail kills me
Newbie question. Why hasn’t ragavan replaced goblin guide in burn?
Banned in Legacy
@@MassimoPiazzese ok… in modern? I just think ragavan is better than guide in most cases