Lowest Bidder Got The Job for a New Steam Boiler - Now They Need Help
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- Опубліковано 4 січ 2022
- In October 2021 we submitted a proposal to convert their heating system from oil to natural gas - all inclusive of new gas piping to support the new equipment, allowances for chimney lining & oil tank removal - new Steam boiler and replacement gas water heater - complete with all new near boiler piping. Instead they went with the lowest bid for a new steam boiler and now they need help with short cycling - AKA Steam Surging.
#USBoiler #Burnham #SteamBoiler
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C/O Pipe Doctor Plumbing
80 E Hawthorne Ave
Valley Stream, NY 11580
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lowest bidder brings us stacks! - Навчання та стиль
Good services are never cheap. I always skim all my new installs with arm and hammer washing soda. Sometimes it takes hours, but it’s figured into my price. Then I add steam master tablets or eight-way to the boiler. It turns the water purple and my customer's indication that the water needs to be cleaned when the water changes color. I also install a water meter on the cold water feed to the boiler, so I know how much water has been added to the boiler. I think you do a great job of explaining everything to your customers. Educating your customers will keep you in business. Keep up the excellent work, Mikey! I enjoy watching your channel. I live/work in the Philadelphia area we have a lot of steam boilers.
That install was a “get me 2 from outside the Home Depot” special…….😀.
Nice job getting it working for the client.👍
Mike nice explaining the system. The first thing i do to my steam installation is add a container of Squick that helps drop the oils to the bottom.
Another good job Mike. And most interesting customer. Thanks Mike.
You get what you paid for....
Love it when I run into jobs like this
I watch all your videos and this is one of my favourites. Great job Mikey. I’ve been in the plumbing and heating industry in Canada for 25 years and I’ve seen so many clients accept the lowest price and end up costing more than having it installed properly the first time
I love when I go back to fix the side job king who is probably working out of a Camry it just makes you realize your all in on what u do! Master your craft
You are the boiler king! I don’t service boilers, I love watching you diagnose and repair these issues. Especially when a homeowner uses a cheaper contractor that does a less than proper installation. Excellent corrective work Saint Mike. 👍🏻 I like your homeowner there. And if I lived in NY I’d go to his church, I might look a little out of place but so what. I like the way he talked. You did good for those people even though they didn’t buy a boiler from you, I complement you Mike.
@@PipeDoctor you have become a regular member of the family here. Seriously, your videos are greatly enjoyed. A former co-worker and I constantly share back and forth and always enjoy a discussion on each one.
He's also the driver king, never seen anyone ride the streets so confidently in reverse 🤣
Mike you do a great job educating customers. I do the same. Your videos are great. Got me looking for A supply house who sells Bosch. Great product. Bosch should be paying you for sponsorship.
Mikey, remember, Don't add cold water to that HOT boiler or it's going to be REPLACED, "Crack" I started adding the feed line from the hot water, diminish the delta t on the boiler water. Your great with the Customer's, with the explanations and education, Keep up the great video's.
As always, Mikey Pipes keeping it real. And I agree with the customer. If you don’t like it to F’n bad.
remember oil floats on water, so in a steam boiler it will lay on the top until the water becomes overheats and suddenly bursts out large pockets of steam and the oil itself can be hot enough to foam up and some go along with the steam, causing more issues with water returning and pipe blocking.
This is why the lowest bid isn’t the best bid!
Great job father mikey! If I was a customer I would pay every penny!!! For your service and expertise!!
❤️
@@PipeDoctor you mean ,nothing cheap is good and nothing good is cheap
The bitterness of low quality remains long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten.
I’m a little surprised that the homeowner didn’t jump on getting the near boiler piping resolved by the experts at Pipe Doctor. Nice save with the plug for “We Got Steam Heat!” By Dan Holohan education will help the homeowner understand what’s right and what’s wrong with the boiler and maybe an additional sale.
My boiler guy set my steam at 2 # you are the best clean water really is the key to nice steam every month, and replacing air vents . It's not lazy mans heat for sure.. love you videos and true logical advice.
Once the home owner said “RMP” and “color of the day” i knew he was legit on the job
Nice. Videos very educational thanks
Hi! Almost all US Boiler residential boilers ship with that wretched overlong 1/2" boiler drain.
I so hate that boiler drain!
It is so slow and restrictive, esp on a steam boiler drain.
Whenever I can, I yank that junk out and install a full port ball valve with a brass or stainless nipple and coupling.
I install a 3/4" x male hose adptr on the end or a 3/4 90 and then the adptr.
The flow is so much better and it speeds up the cleaning process.
Your an unbelievable boiler guy especially steam!
Thank you for another informative video pal.
Hi Mikey pipes my name is Jose I watch almost all your videos and I learn a lot I bought the book that you recommended on Amazon especially the part about pressure and boiler pressure over the 35 years I have this house not even once I heard somebody talk about the pressure on the boiler
And what damages could it due to your boiler. I saw one of your videos and you said that that you're bringing your business to Brooklyn I live in Park slope please keep me in mind I would like to for you to check my boiler give it a nice tune up lots of banging on front side of the house thank you for your videos I learned a lot keep me in mind please when you come down to Brooklyn thank you lucky pipes
Hacks, thank God for Mikey Pipes
Skimming is a must. EVERY manual I’ve encountered so far says to do it before start up. Unfortunately most homeowners today are just not capable of maintaining their own steam systems. Even just draining it and refilling once during the heating season can help with rust and sediment, and they just can’t or won’t do it. I commissioned a 3.5 million btu HB Smith boiler with a Powerflame burner a few years ago. Took HOURS to skim. Had to let it run for a couple weeks, then go back and do it again.
Gerry Gill has videos on flushing out the sections with a wand before skimming. Really cleans out the oil.
Isn't steam obsolete? I mean looking at them they seem to me very rudimentary boilers, that doesn't have all that great efficiency. Wouldn't make sense to replace them with modern condensing boilers, that are near 100% efficient? Sure, you have to replace piping and radiators (or better put in underfloor heating or fancoil) but I think that in the end you will save a lot of money.
@@alerighi
A modern condensing boiler will NEVER match the simplicity and reliability of a cast iron boiler. In my opinion simplicity should never be obsolete. I think the new stuff is overpriced and overrated junk. I’m speaking from 25 yrs. HVAC experience. What you save in fuel usage you will spend x 10 in maintenance and repairs.
Absolutely what I do. Take a capped wand with a cap on end and drilled small holes and flush oils and Teflon out before ever heating up.
The same nightmare happened to my brother's newly purchased house in Elmhurst, Queens, NY. The boiler was installed without flushing the oil at all and the piping was installed incorrectly , so there were lots of banging and water leaking out of the radiators after moving into the house a few weeks.In the beginning it was all and fine and the weather wasn't cold and the heat was mostly off. At that time, we had zero experience about boiler and how heating work, so we found a new Hvac guy and asked him to come to check it out. (This is when the 2nd nightmare starts) He came in and looked at the boiler and told us the piping was done incorrectly by showing us in the boiler manual. He also said by changing all the vents and make sure all the radiators were pitch correctly, the banging and water leaking would go away. We were convinced by him and scheduled a date to do the work. (Hes charging $2,000 dollars and required 1000 as initial payment). After all the works were done. He fired up the boiler and tested the system. Of course the problem didn't fix at all. This is when I start to suspect this guy is a fucking shitty hvac guy, no idea what he was doing, basically a scammer. Let me explain!!!!! The old piping had a vertical drop at the Tee about a 5 to 7 inch, then goes to a pipe to the left. The main is on the right side. He changed the Tee pipe to exactly to the same as shown in this video!! When he pretended to pitch all the radiators, when in fact were already pitched correctly in the first place. So he pretended to disconnect all the radiators and reconnected them and claimed all the changed vents were expensive. which I later found out is the cheapest ones called "Maid-O-Mist, Jacobus". The radiator at my brother's room wasn't properly connected and the valve was off. So when he found out the valve was off and turned it on. It started to leak and through the ceiling in the first floor. good thing I notice it early and was able to fix it, but that ceiling painting was lightly damaged.
During the testing of boiler, I could see all the water were gone from the boiler, but he would keep adding water to it and the water would be gone again into the pipes !!!!!!(Who the fuk would do that!!!!!) .Even a newbie like me knows that is not how steam boiler work. At this point all the radiators were leaking like crazy. He then told us the problem might be the return pipe might not be pitch correctly and that all the water could not return to the boiler, thus water keep leaking. And tried to convince us to pay thousands more to fix it. The return pipe was inside the dry wall. so we couldn't tell. I sort of pretended to agree with him, because this way, he would leave for now and thinking that he might make more money from us. Before leaving, he tried to ask for the remaining 1000 , which i declined by saying the problem wasn't fixed at all and he left. He tried to call days later and I ignored him and blocked him.
I started to research about boiler for a couple days and watched youtube videos and found out that surging is caused by oil in the system. I drained the boiler completely the first time by myself. The system got a little better, I had to repeat the process a few times for the next few days using that 1/2 inch drain valve!!!!. I wish there was a skim valve to get rid of all the oils. The guy that installed the boiler did not put a skim valve. He was also a shit person because he would ignore us and didn't come to fix and we didn't trust him. So that's why we called a Hvac guy to come. I could see the pipe that connected to my room and bathroom( directly above the boiler room) were tilted the wrong way. So the radiators in my room and bathroom always make noises whenever the heat is on. Also the pipe that goes to the living room's largest radiator were not pitched correctly. so there were some bangings there still. That pipe was a old pipe, but the contractors that renovated this house did not pitch that pipe correctly. I really don't understand why theres so many incompetents worker and scammers out there taking advantage of new home owners!!!!!!!!
he used the cheapest ones or you just found a price online of cheaper ones
Great info
Been there. Emergency no heat call December 22. I took the high road and went over. The cheaper contractor piped in 3 suspended gas fired heaters to a water line instead of the gas line. By code the gas valves had to be replaced and at double time weekend charge. So much for the lowest bidder.
Had a customer last year, saw the dirty sight glass. Added a couple caps of dawn dish soap. Talk about a skim party when I got there😂
Thank you lowering the pressure. Dan is the boiler guy I read from and his stories from Gil Carlson.
Great video. Loved listening to the homeowners perspective
Another good job Mikey, customer makes good points appreciate honesty.
I do commercial stuff, and we skim the boiler bring it up to 200 degrees and skim. Then we hire chemical treatment company to treat the system
Check out the discussion on one riser or two on The Wall, Good video of steam leaving the boiler in to a sight glass. Conclusion, follow the manufacturer's instruction.
Hey Mikey, I was just thinking... you should have your apprentices driving *you* ... after all *you're* the big-shot! (plus, I think it's safer than multi-tasking -- ranting & driving)! ;-)
As an boiler technician and electrician I also do the electrical installation with conduits for a good finish on all my jobs I have done. I do them by code because sometimes these boilers circuits wouldn’t be connected on a separate line and that’s not right. We can talk and have an agreement and do them jobs for you and show you som pictures of my jobs I did. I always say “professionalism is important.”
That was not politics… that was real life … the reality of today and what we have let become of our country. Love this content and this video especially!
That pressuretrol is *subtractive*, unlike the usual PA404 we mostly see... I'd set the differential at 1.5 psi nominal.
You're right, that pressure control is not as accurate.
Looks impressive, tho.
But I'd even say the PA404 is a better control.
all your 4 inch squares should have a grounding pigtail screwed into them , and your flex should also have a ground in it .
I usually just skim but I don’t use treatment. I’m gonna start using treatment though. And I would do your method and then when I fill it for the last time I was just skim the top and be done
The CO is not lying .
I fully skim and run the boiler if still not 100% I will add the treatment.
I wonder if you could rid of the oil in the system quicker by flushing with automotive citrus flush? On Modern cars with alloy radiators the lime in water builds up inside the radiator tubes and prevents heat conductivity .The same with the engine blocks,even using coolant additives does little to prevent it . To get oil out involves a flush and blowing through with compressed air to create turbulence. Perhaps a boiler co. might have an answer.
You are better than me, when I walked in and saw that boiler I would have an emergency call and leave especially when I gave you a price for me to be responsible for it forever!
Steam should be inspected, that piping looked bad.
I always skim ,and you should check all steam vents for proper operation.
Thanks again for the videos.
🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃🏌🏻♀️🎯
Stay safe.
Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses.
I’ve walked into places with new systems that I’ve written up and we didn’t install and have told customers “I’d call the people back who installed it and have them fix it for free. If I do it then it won’t be cheap”
Also don’t forget that the old cast iron piping has internal corrosion from the condensation water over the years which causes the thick black gunk that builds up. As that oil layer floats on top, water drops, oil sticks to sides of boiler. Water fills, oil refloats on top. Lol
Yup. That too
How soon will there be no wiring for the thermostat?? You see that with light switches etc......
I just got a new boiler installed, needs skimming. The installers said to run it for a few weeks hard and then they would come back to clean out the oil. Is there any good reason not too do the skim at the time of the install?
In my 30 yrs experience, the lowest bidder (job) is usually the most expensive.
There’s several diff reasons why and not getting into that here, but other channels explain…..it comes down to time and amount etc….(as a hint) AND SKILL LEVEL, KNKW HOW😉
The homeowner had a friend of a friend install that, look at the soldering on the pipes a plumber would not be that bad in soldering. If I Iose a bid on an estimate I would never go back to that customer.
Mike the approaching distance of someone with a knife is 21ft, that's taught in academies, and experts will defend cops in court in a gun vs knife killing involving cop shootings,, but that explanation by that homeowner about the female cop is dead on
Lmao. Dead on how? Certain situations ppl do blow shhh up but it's excused when the police does it as if these are not ppl who can do no wrong. That uniform and badge does not overpower your own will.
@@fleurdebreezeacheatingllc2573 I was answering a question that Mike had asked the home owner because I believe the homeowner is in law enforcement. The question was how many feet can a suspect with a knife be around an officer before the officer will respond with deadly force. It's been proven that a cop can be killed with a knife within 21ft before he ever draws his gun. Did someone say something wrong? You went off ranting over my answer to his question.
Mike think surge ex is suppose to go in after filling on top of the water,floats on top of the water absorbing the oil. Another product you might try Squick works unbelievably well must go in dry on top of water a boiler that size won’t surge might need a blowdown/drain but it won’t surge! Give it a try.
The Hartford loop looks below the low water cutoff or at the lowest level Enjoyed watching
Mikey, did you notice that the brass rod (right side) holding the site glass is Not attached?
Another great boiler video Mike. Once again I learned a lot form you. ;)
I personally didn't really care to listen to the owner rambling.....totally turned off. So I just fast fwd the part where he was talking. :)
Anyway...Keep up the good work !!!!
Cheers!!!
Most of my boiler service work is steam, the new pressure switches suck, if you go to low the sprigs loose tension and even fall off. My bet is Daniel son did not have a "deflective switch" but was at the end of its tension limits, even though still reading on the scale. Have done a bunch of no heat calls where the technician before me had done the right thing and got screwed by crap mfg for it. I show snug the spring a pinch and off to the races. What should be used on a lot of systems is a vapor stat but that's another story.
Skimming is the most important things, WeilMclain gives a great big skim port. It takes time and you may have to do it several times but it does work even on older systems that are more dirt and rust than oil. Chemicals you need to be careful about, your not only cleaning the boiler water but all the piping in the system and bringing it back to the boiler. I do use them but only as needed, in a lot of cases I will just use a half container and see how it goes. Yes reducing the amount of oil into the system is great but some contamination is unavoidable. My quotes on installs are one skimming just after start up and one on a return visit about a week or so after continuous use. After that its a bill per skim, especially with wet returns you get crap back for ever.
There's a small plug on the backside of the "Snap Switch" Pressuretrol with "don't touch me paint" on it. But if you do remove it, there's a screw inside to adjust the snap switch. The old mercury Pressuretrols were much better. Agree with using Vaporstats. But if I'm going to replace a steam pressure control, the Mercoid (Dwyer) is a much superior switch.
I agree, never like to add chemical. If so moderately.
Was the equalizer touching the vent piping? Looks like it was. That will be a problem within a season or two when the copper deteriorates.👍👍🇨🇦
on that pressure cut off at 6 and 1.5, looks to me like they set it in the middle, that's one of those 50%'er tech's, they get it right half of the time.
@@PipeDoctor Amen St Mikey
Holy shit !
Just found your site, love your videos and your presentations; and I am not even in the business! Confused on why you worked on this when it is a new install done by someone else? Let the other guy fix it, especially since it is under warranty. Why didn’t he call that guy? Thanks and have a great year!
Because the other guy has no clue. Its still Mike's customer that made a poor decision, Mike is not punishing them, he will lead them to the correct way and make what he can. He will soon get the re-piping job and the customer will recommend pipe Dr. to all his friends.
Mikey: did he call the company and ask them to fix it? What about the warranty issue? Is it still in effect? I am not questioning your commitment to helping others, and thus growing your business, just confused about those 2 issues. Thanks.
Wow,
- 6psi ? Where are they sailing the house to ?
- And that copper header gave me heartburn, it's not leaking? (I first thought the wire was a reset thing.)
- Painters installed that thing...
How is that Milwaukee transfer pump holding up? Reviews have some units died quickly.
@@PipeDoctor 👍
Hello Mike, i have a steam boiler here at home.its a peerless about 10years old. It always ran great, but this winter i have to add water every day. Granted a small amount ,but i don't remember having to keep such a close eye on the water level. It is a manuel add water system. Wondering if you could tell me why and how to fix the problem. Thank you.
Have you checked all the radiator valve's and air vents for water leaks? I would also get down on your hands and knees and look under the boiler with a flash light for any sighs of a leak.
@@jeffmpvd7689 thanks for the advice Jeff, but unfortunately it is a small hole in the top of the water chamber.I wish I could plug it to get though the winter. I live in new England.The peerless steam boiler is only 10 years old. Oh well ,that's life !
The oversized steam boiler also effects the system surging
Yup! 100%
Dude to the copper piping if that boiler was to crack prematurely burnum will not Warranty the boiler due to it not being piped to speck. The copper on the boiler also changes the light content of the waterAnd could run out the system prematurelyThe reason why the other boiler cracked above the water line was due to the copper piping on the systemThe steam can also melt the sadder joints And caused the copper to Leak
Let's give out the boiler after install And also put in Hercules steam cleaner it has dinicious Earth in it it's designed to clean steam heating systems end or steam steam pots in restaurants
Hey wait a minute now.........
The proposal said nothing about it having to work!
what's the longest time you've waited on a vacuum to get done?
Which book by dan is best for techs
My father taught me when I was 4 years old Is some things are better left unsaid. Is customers got some choppers doesn't it..
Is the condensate coming back fast enough
Not a factor IMO
Love it
Pookey and Ray Ray. Lol
Truly astonishing to learn that so many private residents have steam heat.
Gas hot water radiators yes, a great system.
Mike,
I saw a newer video, where you might put Peter in charge of stock etc in wharehose.
Try to let him do some jobs with you without utube watching over him.
Maybe he needs confidence now.
Food for thought
He's a great guy and I hope he can get miraclessle get his own truck.
You're the boss bro
I'm sure you know better than I
Don’t know shit about plumbing but I like how you explain everything my friend. Question Do you not like Navien tankless heaters? I just had one installed & another plumber here in AZ told me the outside exhaust pipe was not to code. Can I send you a pic? Many thanks
👍
Correction home owner: All three were white. But you're right about approaching distance.
Bro screw bending emt carry seal tight haha
Don’t you love it when they call you back to do the job you would’ve just done in the first place had they just paid you to do it right the first time.
who ever install that boiler should learn to read manufacture install instructionsanother a problem everbody set steam pressure to high to compensate improper venting new subscriper love your videos
Loll….”it’s okay we’re vaccinated”…. That says it all
My man at 21:03 you really gonna leave that mc sticking out of the connector like that?
I deleted a comment…. God bless you Mikey pipes…
Hartford loop ain't really protecting anything being that low. Whoever put it in had no idea what it's there for.
I understand dude at 27:00 but for him to admit he's gonna look the other way when someone is getting beat under his watch is probably not a good thing lol.
Solder joints are awful I would have never had such a thing on my install! I use press at times but I have full faith in every joint I sweat and the PP fittings are so much $ especially with bigger piping
Your customer was on point … do you know his channel name ?
During covid I never once asked someone if they were vaccinated or not. I couldn't wrap it around my brain why it would matter to someone. A vaccinated person spreads it the same way as a non vaccinated person. Crazy times.. Glad they are over. Some people will never mentally recover from covid times though unfortunately. Great work Mikey Pipes.
A vaccinated person who is not ill or the vaccine worked will not pass the virus on. The vaccine is not 100% so some will still get I'll and be able to pass it on but saying vaccinated ppl pass it on the same way is just uneducated bollocks I'm afraid
You can have it “good”. “Fast”. Or “cheap”. But only you get to pick two!!!! Think about it.
So simple even a plumber can do it.
When you find the "State of Chicago" call me.
I don’t see the guys UA-cam channel.?? Someone let me know
I couldn't sleep at night if I did something like that ! Who in their right mind uses a copper header ? And a return ! Should all be black pipe ! Period ! They didn't put their name on it !🤔🤔🤔 *
6psi ?????? Yikes 😳
Complete and utter mess that boiler piping unbelievable I can't believe this was a professional that done this job this job is a complete disgrace.
good plumbing is not cheap and cheap plumbing is not good
what happened to Daniel ?
mercury bulb devices worked too good.......
Thumbs uP
Black pipe to copper lol
Smash that thumbs up button
That was a great learning, really enlightening. Request you kindly text the name of the author of the HAVC hand book, many thanks.
Wonder how much money they saved?
I totally agree with that guy it’s open season on straight white males.
SIX POUNDS!?
Weeping Jesus on the cross1🤦♂️
More hacks making ya more stacks...lol
squick-
👋
hey doc you cant work and radio station. you like to talk with people