Kitesurfing vs Windsurfing Injuries
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Who is more likely to get injured: a kitesurfer or a windsurfer? While the answer may not surprise you, what is truly interesting is the breakdown of injuries that occurred by skill level, as well as where kiting and windsurfing injuries are most likely to happen.
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I'm really impressed by the straight up presentation of the study. Thank you, great stuff.
What's quite interesting is the fact that yes, the windsurfers become more injured the more experience they get, this is because they CHOOSE to do more dangerous stuff. When you know how to plane with windsurfing and start experimenting with the the more dangerous stuff like jumping, you know and choose to be in more risk of an injury. With kitesurfing however, beginners get injured, not because they choose to do a trick or something but mostly because they are not aware of certain dangers. This makes the kitesurfing a more dangerous sport i.m.o.
CheepChoop I think that a pretty good explanation. Agreed that kitesurfing is much more dangerous, especially if you look at fatalities.
I'd like to see the windsurfer data split by wave and flat water sailing.
Same for kiting. Hopefully more studies will come out with a breakdown by discipline
So the avatar?
What a great video ... having taught kiting and windsurfed for many years ... from what I have seen I agree 100% with your analysis .... do you guys have a Patreon page? I think your research is worth sponsoring. Keep up the great work!
We'll set it up just for you ;)
Bit of misleading video, that leaves out the main conclusion of the original paper: "The results suggest that kitesurfing has a significantly higher injury rate than windsurfing". But there is also an obviously massive selection bias in the original "study". With windsurfing it is very difficult to get injured unless one is doing quite advanced freestyle moves, or radical wave riding. Something the vast majority of windsurfers never do but is the main activity for the location of the study. Take those activities out of the picture, and the windsurfing injury rate is almost non existent. With Kiting people have died in unfortunately great numbers just on the beach, dragged by their kites.
Next Video: "Couch surfing vs Web Surfing injuries"
😄 to give a hypothesis : web surfers will have injuries in their shoulders and couch surfers in their lower back due to bad positioning ! conclusion: further research is recommended ..😉
As a frequent contributor to these statistics I would have liked a mortality rate included. I need to know when I'm likely to die. 😆
Im sorry to say this but the methodology of study is very questionable.
The study only selected patients admitted to one specific hospital. No surfers not admitted to the hospital were questioned. The size of the study was quite small -- N_Kite 29 and N_Windsurf 31
This selection bias and the small sample size lets us conclude a couple of things:
Only people that where actually injured and went to this one specific hospital where taken into account. If someone does not have an accident, they will not show up in this statistics. This probably leads to a significant overestimation of injury rate.
Another issue is that people with more minor injures tend to not visit the hospital. And if they do visit a doctor is probably in a different location and mostly if the injury persists. This can also cause all kinds of (statistical) issues, as there might be some difference in whats kinds of injuries happen with kite- and windsurfing.
In conclusion, these issues negate any claims the authors make with regards to the statistical significance of Kitesurfing vs Windsurfing injury rates. (The p value was already just _at_ the margin, leaving no room for error).
This goes to show how important it is to randomly sample a population if one wants relevant results.
Link to the paper:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5155257/
Example of a sound study, on a similar topic, in case some one wonders how to do it right:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566014/
So cool!!! I enjoy both windsurfing and Kitesurfing. I absolutely agree with you that practicing 'the quick release' is sooo important with Kitesurfing. It saved me a big time about 2 yrs ago!! (I was trying to launch quickly to go out to the coral reef area to save my windsurfing buddie, but did not realize that my bar was tangled with the power lines.🙄😑)... and..I wear vest for both Kitesurfing and Windsurfing!! 😊😁
Let go of the boom windsurfing, and it all stops, let go of the bar kiting, and it all starts.
This phrase is so excellent, i'm going to steal it from you.
not quite right Adam. Beginners tend to clutch the bar "full power" as they lose control. With modern kites if you release the bar the kite depowers and the kite becomes more safe. That's not always true obviously and depends how windy etc. , and yes, a windsurfing rig is much safer in this regard.
@@gatorjos I agree, it's an older expression that harkens back to the early 2000s when the last thing you wanted to do was let go of your two-line kite bar or short-throw 4-line bar. Now that kites are so depowerable schools encourage letting go, something that still feels weird to me.
I think I know what you are trying to say - a windsurfer has near instant de-power by letting go of the boom. However, I disagree that letting go is the right thing to do in circumstances that actually matter. When a crash is imminent on a windsurfer, for example you are hooked in and going to get launched or whipped by the rig, you *absolutely* need to hold onto the boom. Why ? Because otherwise you stand a really good chance of getting whacked by the boom or the mast. In comparison, short of punching out the QR, letting go of the bar on a modern kite is the best thing to do. It might just float up to the apex or down to the water. Worst case, the tomahawk or loop will be a lot less intense when you are not fully sheeted in.
The worst is taking up kitesurfing from a windsurfing background. It takes a long time to unlearn the 'hold on to the boom (bar) at all cost' instinct.
Adam B. I believe that this is still very much true. While kiting, when you get to the point where you actually let the boom go due to some unforeseen event, you are already so much in trouble that something is bound to happen. Once i was taking a leap and I managed to put my board above the boom and entangle it on the lines. Effectively I was powering up by pulling down the bar my feet. The powered kite kept my legs stretched, and to untangle my feet i had to pull my legs down, powering the kite therefore even further. I was completely helpless, bouncing on the water like a teabag on an 5 o clock English tea break. After 4 of 5 bounces or so the kite fell to the water and i managed to pull myself free again. The idea of pulling the safety release crossed my mind, but I was completely clueless on where I was and what was happening, so I had no chance to find where the release was... So, in my experiment, you can be sure that, while windsurfing, the moment you let the boom go it is about the end of the story, but while kitesurfing it might well just be about the very beginning...
After >10 years practicing in Spain and France, I know a few cases of contusions, sprains, cuts in windsurfing. In the other hand, I know quite a few severe crashes (beach, buildings...) and deaths in kitesurfing. Seems the risk of life-changing injury in kitesurf is still unresolved, whatever the marketing is trying to say.
I am a windsurfer and a kitesurf of intermediate to advanced level on both sports. I am 43 years old and I windsurf since the age of 9. I kitesurf since the age of 28. I have had laceration on my chin and forehead which needed sticking doing loops in windsurfing after smashing my face on the boom. But the worst injury I had was ACL tear on my left knee after landing an over rotated front roll in kitesurf. I believe kitesurf is doing more damage in the knees from windsurfing. Windsurfing exerts more strain on the upper body and I believe is a more physical demanding sport. I love both, kiting for under 20 knots, windsurfing for the big days...!!
Good to know, especially from someone who has experience with both sports. Thanks for the insight :)
Super informative, thank you! Great reminder to practice release. Will share with my fav kite buddy (my son)!
Glad you enjoyed it!
*"Wingsurfers and wavesurfers had left the chat..."*
I don't remember ever getting injured while windsurfing. The worst incident I remember was the board taking off by itself after a fall. The sail somehow stayed up to catch wind. I had a long swim in but recovered the board after being pulled out to where it ended up by a friend. By comparison in kiting, I was dragged along the beach on a number of occasions getting scrape injuries.
Kiteboarding on open sea is a different beast, very different then flat water and more deadly. Also, here in the Netherlands we’ve had 3 kite surfing related deaths in the last year alone, windsurfing nothing in the past ten years. Kiteboarding is still ten times more awesome then windsurfing tho
Nice video!
Well I think that the injuries of kitesurfing decreased by the time because of tchnical development for example the higher depower. Also schooling became more safe and professional giving beginners more knowledge. While the the windsurfing only developed a little bit since 2011, I think that the level of injuries might be at same by this time...
You could be right - there has been considerable development in gear since 2011, and we would imagine lessons to have also become more safety-conscious. As for windsurfing, we're not sure as it has been in decline for some time now.
Windsurfing is inherently safe, unless you go to huge waves, crash the beach with your head or blast high speed through obstacles (like other windsurfers). That's exactly why amateurs & intermediate level windsurfers don't really get injured. It's very nice that kitesurfing is becoming more safe as well, but I really can't see how it could ever be as safe as windsurfing for beginners or intermediate level surfers. Or even expert level guys when they are not catching the huge waves between rocky beach or some other risky business.
I've been windsurfing 23 years now, never been to hospital as a result of injury despite sailing mostly waves. All minor stuff, mostly feet cut, a shins banged really hard, toes a bit tweaked oh and one boom in the lip which did result in a mucocele in my lip which had to be lasered out. Quite a safe sport in my opinion.
People get ankle injuries because their straps are not set up properly. Beginners get nailed when learning to get into the straps/harness and the catapults can be brutal. A helmet is not a bad idea. I've been more hurt whitewater kayaking and paragliding.
Just getting into windsurfing and that's nice to know
Thank you
I dont even have that video of myself😂 4:57 Interested in where you found this.
Stock footage site 🙂
What is the general discussion on safety around kite surfing? I understand during a clinic that all aspects of safety is brought up. However I see a large majority of kiters never make sure to look around them before a gybe, fall off wind or making a jump and then get surprised when there’s a fellow surfer there and nearly or do collide with.
I’ve seen too many close calls and even serious accidents that could have been easily avoided just by looking over the shoulder.
Agreed, when you switch lanes on the highway you check your blind spot, yet kiters rarely do that when they switch direction. Also not all kite instructors teach safety as often times beginners focus too much on getting on the board.
It makes a lot of sense that pretty much only experienced windsurfers get injured. They are the ones riding those 10 meter waves in dangerous beaches and blasting 70+ km/h close to each others. Windsurf gear is inherently safe when compared to kitesurf gear. With windsurfing wind can never lift you up in the air, it's pretty much impossible to hurt you badly when at the beach and the board acts as a flotation device.
Back problems with windsurfing are probably the most common downside, though keeping your back fit and using seat harness should help tremendously.
Helmets and impact vests have saved me a few times and prevented several injuries from being more severe. Reduced to a bruised ego from a bad "dismount" or just a bit of whiplash. I can see why more experienced windsurfers get hurt. They're learning and attempting tricks whereas beginners are just trying to get onto a plane. As kiters progress they have better control. I have learned this from experience with both. Happy sailing and warm winds. Wear your helmet and life jacket to you can have fun riding tomorrow too.
The more physically demanding the worse the injury. Accidents in kiting occur at the beach, windsurfing is way more damaging even trying basic jumps.
Your data is great-niece analysis...but...to say kiting is only 34% more dangerous is contradicted by the eye test which you perform with your Cuba camera. You saw 12 incidents in that short period...on a windsurfing beach it would take years to get same. I know kiting injuries happen more on the beach than sailors do but still..... 12 in a few hours. Also your data on severity of injury is not very accurate. I´ve watch both sports in the gorge and Baja for 25 years. Myself being hospitalized in Baja with a serious needle fish hit. But..in that time 2 people have died kiting, several limb amputations, a face demolished.... with one exception of a broken neck, never seen carnage like that sailing. I'll quote local wind icon Bruce Sheldon, both expert kiter and sailor.....¨kiting is not like windsurfing...it WILL KILL YOU¨.
Don, t think to much... Just go surfing rather it's Kite or windsurfing. And please don't compare those Two. I am a wind surfer for 12 years.. No Dangerous injuries in that time... 🤙
I'm windsurfer (can say advanced to expert) and kites surfer (beginner to advanced). I have several dislocated ribs from 4 years ago windsurfing which are preventing me from using waist harness. None from the kite. Kite is definitely more scary in the beginning as people forget to depower or release, but definitely more safe when you progress as there aren't a lot of rig to hit.
Not surprising most accidents happen when launching and landing. I had quite a bunch of different instructors when learning, almost none of them learned you this part, they’re doing it themselves.
I asked for it and luckily one guy was willing to let me practice, same with a self rescue.
Most schools want you to get on the board as quickly as possible and skip the rest.
How will this study make any difference, you are more likely to get injured in your car while driving to a spot to go kiteboarding, yet people still refuse to stop texting and driving no matter how many "awareness campaigns" (posters, videos, commercials excreta) are done by the people who are trying to save everybody from themselves.
.. windsurf 👌💪💪💪🤙
Time on the water is not covered. Maybe the advanced windsurfers spent more time and therefore were more likely to be hurt? Also, not all 'injuries' are equal, I bet the kite injuries, like the sport, are more 'gnarly!
Had quite a few trips to A&E windsurfing, but I was training for competitions trying double forward loops.
Kitesurfing have less injuries going for big air. Always wear a helmet for Foiling, been hit in the head a few times out in the waves.
Think its time they did a new study, modern kite safety systems are so good these days.
As a both kitesurfer and windsurfer i can't even count the scars i have on my knees and arms:')
that's true :)
I am subscribed to your channel and until today you seemed like a person with knowledge in kitesurfing that you touch on interesting topics in kitesurfing but I consider that you don't know much about windsurfing (and I'm being very nice).
I was struck very negatively as you presented the statistics, Look for the report you refer to and corroborate my feeling.
1. POSITIVE of your video: all the security measures, I congratulate you do it very well, this you did perfectly.
2. VERY NEGATIVE in your video.
At the end of my comments, I make a copy and paste of the ORIGINAL report to which you refer, which is extremely unrepresentative and very unserious in reference to the hours practiced revealed in a survey, therefore, you cannot generalize it as you do to all kitesurfing and all windsurfing, let's also understand that it is a single hospital in one place.
I am 48 from 20 to 32 years old, I practice windsurfing very actively. (formula windsurfing and Wave and Slalom "shortboards") from 33 to 40 eventually, windsurfing and I started very little with kitesurfing, from 43 to 48 actively only kitesurfing.
Windsurfing is a sport that has advanced to a medium level, it is far more physical than kitesurfing. Windsurfing you need much more time to learn how to do it and start progressing with sails and boards (weeks, months to years) instead kitesurfing in 10 days of practice, and you plan and jump. Nowadays by far the people who practice kitesurfing are much greater than those who practice Windsurfing. At first, glance, starting with issues of danger, the Radio windsurf mast from 4.3 to 5.2 meters, which in reality does not compare the risk of the first 4 meters of the 23 meters (diameter 46 meters) of the kites.
In the 28 years of experience in windsurfing and seeing since kitesurfing began, in South and Central America, Europe, Africa, and Asia, the statistic that I witnessed is that Kitesurfing is much more dangerous than windsurfing in a very significant way. Unlike windsurfing, in many of the accidents that witnessed kiters not only were they injured but on many occasions in addition to being injured or not, they also injured third parties to the point that kitesurfing can be comparable to soccer or snowboarding but buying kitesurfing With windsurfing in my experience you are comparing the danger of a wild wolf with a plant.
I love kitesurfing but I respect it and it is up to everyone to be safe in the water, many realize that they do not know as much as they just believed in the first accident. People have to be aware that it is a high-risk sport for them and for third parties, so it is very important to take precautions starting with understanding the risks.
COPY & PASTE of the first part of the article to refer to:
“AIM To analyze all windsurfing and kitesurfing (kiteboarding) injuries presented at our coastal hospital over a 2-year period. METHODS Twenty-five windsurfers (21 male; aged 31 ± 8 years) and 32 kitesurfers (23 male; aged 29 ± 11 years) presented at our hospital during the 2-year study period. Various injury data were recorded, including transport to hospital and treatment. After a median follow-up of 16 mo (range, 7-33 mo), 18 windsurfers (72%) and 26 kitesurfers (81%) completed questionnaires on the trauma mechanisms, the use of protective gear, time spent on windsurfing or kitesurfing, time to return to sports, additional injuries, and chronic disability. RESULTS Most patients sustained minor injuries but severe injuries also occurred, including vertebral and tibial plateau fractures. The lower extremities were affected the most, followed by the head and cervical spine, the upper extremities, and the trunk. The injury rates were 5.2 per 1000 h of windsurfing and 7.0 per 1000 h of kitesurfing (P = 0.005). The injury severity was the same between groups (P = 1.0). Less than 30% of the study population used protective gear. Kitesurfers had a higher number of injuries and required transport by ambulance, inpatient hospital stay and operative treatment more often than windsurfers, but these differences were not statistically significant (P > 0.05). The median time to return to windsurfing and kitesurfing was 5 and 4 wk, respectively (P = 0.79). Approximately one-third of the patients in each group experienced chronic symptoms. CONCLUSION Kitesurfing results in a significantly higher injury rate than windsurfing in the same environmental conditions but the severity of the injuries does not differ. “
Thanks for the feedback Leonardo. Not going to lie - we don't know much about windsurfing. Also agree that the study we based the video on has limitations, with a big one being not including fatalities (as without fatalities included the risk of kitesurfing is downplayed). Also, comparing injuries to other contact sports is not exactly apples to apples, because personally we have never heard of anyone dying from soccer. Additionally, we agree you cannot generalize un-representative results from one study to the whole population of windsurfers and kitesurfers. With that said, the injuries reported by skill level (while not statistically significant) seem to have an element of truth in it, as it matches the reality that we have witnessed on the beach. Never saw a windsurfer beginner get injured - yet saw dozens beginner kiters get into accidents. All in all, the goal of the video was to start a discussion - to show that accidents do happen and learn from what is documented so far. Also you can only include so much details in the video, it’s impossible to include every point and counter point, and for that reason we always leave "the un-discussed" for the comments section. Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.
@@OurKiteLife Thank you for your response, I really enjoy your work, I look forward to seeing your next work. Best regards.
Being an Advance to Expert windsurfer (no big wave surfing), I've never known anybody requiring to go to the hospital for injuries, but I've known at least half a dozen kitesurfers that required hospital visits.
Very interesting video! Also, I think your approach is very good, really sticking to the facts! THANKS!
I practice both kitesurfing and field hockey (which in the Netherlands actually is a sport for men as well haha ;) ). My experience is that in field hockey I am more prone to injury than in kitesurfing:
In ~1270 hours of field hockey at intermediate level I've had my ankle sprained 2 or 3 times, I've had a fractured finger and a dislocated shoulder.
In ~700 hours of kitesurfing at beginner to advanced level (unhooked freestyle, no big air) I've head an eye injury due to kitelines ending up in my face. This is my only real injury. Furthermore I did have had some minor issues with over-stressing my elbow and bruising my hands with unhooking. Unhooking is just terrible for the hands & arms. I've learned that letting go of the bar is very important here!
I do ride boots and although people often warn about the dangers regarding this, I've never had any boots related injuries.
I think between 2011 & 2020 kiteboarding has become way more popular! In the Netherlands, spots are getting increasingly busy. In the summer months, my homespot the 'Zandmotor' is all about avoiding other kites. There is no room at all for unhooking. This is very frustrating, but I do keep going to this spot for those very few 'golden hours'. The overcrowdedness I think has become a major contributor in injuries.
Cheers! Bastiaan
Thanks Bastiaan! It’s interesting to hear different perspectives from kiters around the world. We were thinking back to kite injuries we’ve witnessed or experienced - most common one is cracked or broken ribs from big air gone wrong. Second to that would be knee injuries from bad landings or crashes. Thankfully overcrowding is rarely an issue here :)
Also need to count the injuries kiters suffer when choking on their lipsticks or being blinded by their tight flouro shorts..
Windsurf 👍 kitesurf is much easier to learn is for girls I don't like kitesurf👎
I also know a very simple wind forecast application - Cyclono
Plz make a the same for wingfoiling vs kitesurfing injuries
When windsurfing first started with big boards and no harness I'm sure injuries were very low. As time progressed the sport became much more high-end with short boards, jumping, flips etc. It seems to me that with kitesurfing people have been doing crazy things like jumping from the very beginning, probably because it's easier to do so technically with the equipment. As a beginner kitesurfer I'm hopeful that the safety features of modern kites reduce risk of injury!
True. Now since 2016 windsurfing has ultra light boards and sails, you basically controling feathers and spining loops till you get killed :D
Because pro windsurders and kitesurfers pushing their limits and are more likely to get injured. How about age of these rideres? I am in my 40is now and I found out that i am no loner willing riding unhooker or do any aerials because I want to maximize my time on the water instead hospital. On average day in Ontario I see no accidents because most of the kiters or windsurfers are in above 30 age group
Good point - would've been interesting to see a breakdown of the injuries by age.
Great Presentation. Be good to see this and more come from our Industry bodies.
Yea, but what about "WINGFOILING" :)
We crashed a lot last year, so much that I made a youtube compilation of it😅 luckily no gear or bones where broken! Think the a lot of experienced kiters get knee injury because of bad landings after jumps/tricks
Interesting, but as doctor and windsurfer for 32 years, having made my medical thesis on windsurf injuries and having discovered kite in 1996,by myself in 2001,kitesurfing is obviously very much more dangerous than windsurf.every year some kite boarders leave their life in my area of South of France. Every year they pay a high toll of orthopedic problems. Lethal injuries in windsurf are very very rare and trauma are less important than in kitesurfing. There s no debate. When you run at 40knots on kite, when you jump at 10 meters, you pay the price at one moment or the other.
However, OK, if if was living in a Caribbean island with 15 regular knots of wind, OK kite is a very pleasant, extraordinary sport.but in gusty, "strong" winds avoid it. I've seen too much good friends with very good skill badly injured for life....
We agree - it wasn’t surprising to find out there were more injuries in kitesurfing compared to windsurfing. Good point re: strong and gusty conditions - that will definitely put you at risk for very serious injuries or death in the case of an accident
Alain je sais pas jusqu'à quelle hauteur tu as osé sauté en windsurf. Arrivé à une certaine hauteur, et notamment avec les figures "late front', ça commence à devenir dangereux. En kite, avec une bonne maîtrise et de l'expérience, tu peux sauter à 20 mètre et faire un atterrissage tout en douceur, avec la technique de l'héliloop par exemple. Voilà pourquoi je trouve cette étude extrêmement juste. Plus le kiter est expérimenté, moins il prend de risque, tout simplement grâce à la maîtrise du pilotage de son aile qui lui permet de diriger et assouplir sa chute. Plus le windsurfer est expérimenté, plus il prend de risque car la maîtrise de son matériel lui permet de prendre plus de hauteur et d'amplitude sans que ce dernier ne le protège en cas de lourde chute. L'étude se penche sur la corrélation entre le niveau des pratiquants et le risque associé à cette même pratique, non sur sur approche globale du risque portant sur l'ensemble des pratiquant tous niveaux confondus!
@@raphadesmontagnes coriolan, oui je suis d'accord qu'il y a une sur expression des accidents chez les débutants en kite /gens expérimentés et que l'accidentologie en windsurf sera plus importante, inversément chez les gens expérimentés que chez les débutants. Après, OK la technologie préventive en kite, s'est, fort heureusement, améliorée, j'en conviens.la difficulté de l'étude là et son biais sous jacent est qu'on peut difficilement quantifier la gravité des traumatismes:une entorse grave de cheville en windsurf ne vaut pas une fracture tibia péroné avec diastasis, qui est quasi impossible en windsurf, possible en kite, etc etc.
J'adore le kite et suis admiratif des prouesses et de sensation de liberté que cela amène et suis parfois très inquiet des pathologies que les copains de Gruissan me relatent qui n'ont aucune mesure avec ce que je constate en Windsurf sur Gruissan où je navigue toute l'année. Après ce n'est que mon sentiment et sûrement pas une vérité scientifique, le flair de médecin de terrain, pas plus, pas moins.... Bonne nav, chez nous c'est reparti 😊 !
Wow, first time I see a comparison injuries. Very well resume too. Being in my end of fourthly (windsurf since I’m 8 yrs old) and contemplate for my first forward loop... I might think twice now. Good work and thanks!
Don’t think about it and go for it! I waited about 20 years before I started forward loops. Once you learn the mechanics of it, you really can’t injure yourself. I did literally hundreds of them with 3.7 to 5.7 sail and never an injury. GO FOR IT, don’t miss it!
I am very proud to share this vid with you 😎 despite no one paid me for kitesurfer image rights 😜
Surfer vs windsurfer vs kitesurfer:
ua-cam.com/video/-Tp1tjyheWA/v-deo.html
LOL!
I think they increase due to popularity
Very good video, information and tips - thank you very much!
I think (only if information available of course) it could have been interesting to look at the mortality cases and how/why they occured. Bringing attention to the community and what to avoid in extreme situations too.
And for sure the study did not / could not go in those details but a factor could have been which discipline and where. For the windsurfing part, wave riding is different than slalom and different than freestyle. Brings different type of injuries but the most severe are probably "for" the hard core wave riding windsurfers. 70 to 80% of the windsurfers will probably be sailing on relatively flat waters, independently of their skill level. Question being: with 15 to 20 kn, on relatively flat water, where do they see more risks and injuries - kite or windsurf.
Again: in any case, thank you very much for the video and summarizing the results of the study !
Thanks - glad you liked the video! We did consider mortality rates but there's not much we could find on it and it also is kind of a downer to talk about. 100% agree it would've been great to break things down by discipline for both windsurfing and kitesurfing. Hopefully a study is published in the future that dives into the different disciplines that we have today.
Thanks for your reply! About "mortality rates": yes, I fully agree this is a sensitive topic / not easy, still rare for chance and by definition not promoting our sports (having said that, other sports do have death cases too obviously).
In our small windsurfing community, we just had one case (one death) 2w ago approximately. Background (sorry for the details but it might help someone else): rig issue, ended up swimming 30 mins in cold water. Cardiac arrest soon after. We (community) started a "bigger" discussion about how to avoid it + what is everyone's responsibility thinking that another windsurfer (Kiter too probably) might need some help on the same spot when we are sailing. Independently of the devices each of us will decide to take when sailing or not, maybe (probably) it does make sense to push the idea of: have fun, enjoy the day and your hobby, but do keep an eye open for the guys sailing around you. Look around you, regularly, actively too.
=> I do not mean you have to change or add something to your video. Again: the simple fact you are bringing up the topic of injuries is a great thing. Thanks again.
It would have been interesting to also separate the different disciplines, because I would guess that there is quite a difference for example between wave and freeride/race .
Agreed. Hopefully if a similar study is done again, they break it down discipline. It would be interesting to see foilboarding represented too
Excellent topic. This study is pretty interesting and matches 100% with what I assumed. Thanks! Conclusion: instructors must get better at teaching Kite control and global behavior on the beach.
Agreed, while the sample size was small the data presented in the study appears to match real life. Also agreed on instructors teaching kite control, as from what we witnessed it appears that most instructors rush to water start right too soon.
If you want to be more comprehensible from foreigner people you have to speak more more more slowly.
Thanks for the feedback, will try to slow down :)
I windsurfed for 17 years without injury.but my number came up.out in 40 knots.yeah just the usual westerly gale I thought.a sudden wind change and increase from behind launched me at uncontrollable speed.i hit some bad chop,spun out,the leeward rail dug in.at the same time the boom head clamp broke,and I fell backwards with my left foot stuck in the strap.broken ankle,dislocated at 90 degrees and no sailing for 15 months.with years of experience also comes complacency.
windsurfing is not just about speed, it's about strolling in the friendly sea. At 40 knots of wind everything becomes dangerous .... decrease the sail the next time and avoid exorbitant speeds. After all, you practice windsurfing ... there's no need, unless you're training for championships
Good timing on the video. I have done some windsurfing (including in Toronto) but find it hard to progress. Thinking of giving kiting a go. Injuries wouldn't put me off either but its interesting to see advanced and pro windsurfers pushing themselves further to the point of injury where staying within your ability seems to be relatively safe
Lots of windsurfers that we know switched to kiting, especially here in Toronto as the winds are lower here
thank you! great! i'm practising both sports; but i do not think that wearing protective equipment would confer any significant risk reduction in injuries: ALL my windsurfing injuries were confined on knees, ankles and elbow/shoulder. same should be true for kitesurfing too (i'm only riding strapless and foiling); an exeption to it would be wearing a helmet when foiling
Honestly, we only wear a helmet when foiling too. We are required by law to wear a PFD in Ontario, which also serves as an impact vest. So far only injury has been knee as well
Ribs are a frequent injury while kiteboarding, especially in some maneuvers involving rotation and/or kiteloops.
Cool video! Talking about injuries before summer starts could actually make a lot of people think two times before doing something dangerous and might help people stay out of the hospital 👌🤙
Thanks! That would be a great outcome. At the very least, we hope more kiters use the QR when need be and be extra careful on the beach
I liked the video in the beginning. I am a beginer windsurfer ;)
Cool video comparison
Great information. Thank you. Please consider posting a follow up with up to date information linked to this video so we don't have look for it or as I accidentally found this one. 🖖
I would like to see a breakdown including foiling. Also mountain biking since that is a common no wind day activity for both groups.
Us too! Very curious what the injury rate for foilboarding is. Mountain biking would also be interesting to see too as that’s a common no wind activity for many kiters we know as well
Very great study! In my perspective as an expert windsurfer, wave jumping Is way the best way to hurt yourself , i mean pushing hi jumps with nice waves. I agree that kite beginners loosing control of kite during lunch are in the worst position for injuries. The very bad thing of It, i am referring to Italy only, Is that i am hearing of 2/3 fatality per year with kitesurfing, while only one in over 30 years with windsurfing (a poor windsurfer felt over the fin with the stomach in the 90's). In kite, falling away from the Sea or cutting yourself with lines or being trapped underwater and drawning are the most deadful risks. I also agree that in windsurfing, expecially wave jumping It shiuld be important to wear an helmet, becouse the most risky thing Is to hit the head and loose consciousness and sink, but very few of wavejumpers do It... For italian law Is compulsory to wear Life vest, which Is nearly unpractical, while in kite Is not, and if wind goes down It Is more importante than for windsurf, while It Is to wear the helmet .
Fantastic!! (Still orthopedic surgeon) I never saw spot-on injury relevant studies before!
Just waiting on the data for jumping hard objects like a pier ;)
Thank you. Great reminder to stay alert. What your view on safety release on the beach... isn’t that dangerous to people on the beach? Or because the kite is not “powered” it has less impact?
Thanks! Hm... I would think if you land the kite on someone with full power, the risk of impact or cutting them with lines is likely much greater
Good that you ask, but of you do it means you need lessons with proper instructors, this kind if things (and many other safety related) should have been covered while learning to ride.
"Dutch study analized hospital visits...".
I'm going to stop you right there, because this data is flawed (survival bias).
It only tells something about people who got injured, people who surfed for years and had no injuries are not even taken into consideration.
The rate of injury would be far less for surfers in general.
People who get injured on launch most likely did it for the first time, and never even bothered to learn some safety rules. It is true that kitesurfing can be very dangerous, if you have no idea what you are doing.
Also, it depends on how far you push it. You can't jump 50m into the air with windsurf, which is doable with kitesurfing.
It seems to me that the kite surfer doesn't want to use the quick release in these situations because he's afraid of losing his kite for some jam he may be able to fix
The % don't reflect the fraction of poeple in each group - kitesurfing is newer and there are more poeple in the less experienced groups. Possibly there are more aging 'expert' windsurfers who can't handle so well anymore. Kite surfing is obviously a bit of a mare - you are much more likely to hurt others because of the wider reach.
Thanks Laurie for a nice overview. The rates probably went up last decade. The sport has become more accessible due to improvements in materials / safety. That probably has attracted more mainstream public instead of more adventurous pioneers. Release systems became quite good since 2007... Now most accidents in NL are due to lacking knowledge about meteorology , currents , obstacles , crowded places etc.
That could be the case. As we saw on the beach in Cuba (very popular destination for Canadian kiters - especially beginners), the main issues were with controlling the kite - launching & landing, and not pulling the QR - so it's interesting to hear what common problems are in other locations.
ACCESSIBLE ??! But prices of equipment went up so much not to many milenials can afford this sport! Example cabrinha bar with lines in Canada $860+13% sales tax ! Crazy
I’m a 60 year old that has 24 hours of lessions so far....
I have had 3 instructors and I also start by saying I don’t want to hurt someone or get hurt
My first 3 days I reviewed safety... boring but get lessons go slow and get to go again
Most fun I ever had
Great video
Steve
Thanks! We wish everyone had the same viewpoint on safety as you - it's not just about preventing your own injuries, but protecting others as well :)
I'm in a similar situation as you. I'm 52 and have taken about 8 hours of lessons and am also concerned about injuring myself or injuring other. Had one close call during a lesson with the kite almost hitting a group of women on the beach. So needless to say I'm proceeding with extreme caution. My next step is to buy my own equipment and practice but I'm nervous about doing that. I've been windsurfing my whole life but kitesurfing seems like something that will be easier on my body once I get the hang of it.
@@MarwanSati Hello, I have had a similar experience. I’ve windsurfer for 30 years and started kiting a couple years ago. No bad injuries in windsurfing and so far no issues kiting by taking things slowly. It’s a heck of a lot of fun!
@@MarwanSati One more thing, if you live someplace north where you can get on to a frozen lake with your kite and skis, you will progress DRAMATICALLY. I went from about your 8hours of beginner experience to having decent kite control in one winter. Then, this spring and summer I added in the board control and VOILA: I’m a novice Kiteboarder! I love the sport and rarely windsurf any longer...but fun to hop on the board again now and then. Good luck! Oh yeah, get your own equipment so you can go as often as possible!
I enjoy both. I think Kitesurfing is safer as long as you do not do any tricks (but you will be bored). Windsurfing requires so much for focus when you are going fast especially during jibing (and even tacking) and does NOT require any tricks to have fun... Personally, I think windsurfing just takes too long to achieve the advance level (water start, speed jibing, and speed tacking)...
Thanks for your input! We’ve heard similar things about the slow learning curve for windsurfing
Unfortunately for windsurfing I don't find much information on what to do when you feel that you are going to crash.
This study makes perfect sense to me. Expert riders do this for a living and do very risky things. Freestyle in many sports is much more dangerous than free-ride.
It would be interesting to see how foiling in both sports changes the risk. Personally I will stick to free-ride for now and avoid the foil in high winds.
Yeah - it will be interesting to see if any similar studies come out that include foiling!
Marko - I used I to wonder the same thing but 30 years of windsurfing has taught me to instinctively do a couple things when I’m going very fast and starting to lose control. I tend to unhook so I don’t slam into the mast. I also try to scoot my feet slightly out of the straps if possible so I don’t twist the heck out of my ankles. So basically unconnected myself from the rig so I can maybe push it away as I’m falling. Hope this helps. By the way, I started kiting and (knock on wood) haven’t had any crazy falls or kite disasters. The quick release is my friend...
@@stevedail1 Thank you for sharing your experience!
@Marko Posavec: There's a bit of info here for you: ua-cam.com/video/Y0lUoga4JQQ/v-deo.html
amount of injuries is most likely to increase dramatically , due to introducing foils, most likely for both disciplines.
Something that i didn't know existed was shown in this video - inflatable wind surf sail @1:32 . What i observed from fast riding windsurfers is that sometimes they come to a dead stop in a second, most likely due to nose diving, that looks really traumatic.
Excellent video, thank you.
Most instructor certifications now require beginners to learn on short lines. Line length is leverage - like the gears in a car. So beginners who learn and master short and medium before long lines are much safer. Full de-power bridled kites and better safety systems are also an advantage - if people practice simulated emergencies enough times so that it is instinctive... if the first time you need to eject is a couple of years after you watched a video or did it once in your first lesson, then it's unlikely that you will successfully reach it while upside down and backwards at 3G acceleration force.
Also, the trend towards "intermediate syndrome" where many people decide that safety rules only applied to beginners has increased, and old school riders/instructors often set bad examples for new riders by teaching beginners on long lines, jumping close to shore and riding through swimmers.
Instructors should take note that if an accident happens when teaching a beginner on long lines, your insurance policy will not cover you and you will be open to criminal negligence/reckless endangerment charges as well as civil liability judgements for financial compensation.
Thanks for your comment - lots of good points! We saw lessons taking place in Antigua on short lines a few years ago - didn’t know that that’s now required by instructor certifications but it makes sense
"if people practice simulated emergencies enough times so that it is instinctive" exactly my words. Will discuss it with my teacher. I miss this in the lessons.
I used safety release twice as a beginner and this made me pay attention and learn better launching. Now I even check my safety before launch. Great video, thanks.
I'm a freestyle windsurfer. Trying to learn new freestyle tricks is definately the thing that's causing the injuries. Those tricks are just extremely difficult and it's easy to lose control due to a gust of wind etc. during the manouvre. I had three injuries and they all happend during tricks. Nothing serious though (broken foot, dislocated thumb, broken fingers). Luckily all of it healed completely. The broken foot took a whole year to be normal again though.
Good to know! Thanks for sharing your insight as a freestyle windsurfer :)
I would say it’s safer especially with kiting as back in the day you didn’t have all the safety features as we have today. This is for beginners. Also, there are more schools. For advanced athletes it has gotten more dangerous as the level of skill has give up significantly as well as risk. Same with windsurfing. The tricks they are doing now wouldn’t have ever been imagined 10 years ago.
Good points! The tricks are definitely more advanced in both sports now compared to ten years ago.
Good thing I'm not talented enough for becoming better a windsurfer than intermediate. 0% risk for me :)
If you don't need your head you don't need a helmet. Since blowing my eardrum twice in a month I've alway warn a helmet.
I would think that the injury rate for kiters didn’t changed much. Yes, we have improvements like the better kite depower, user friendlier kite behavior and single front line safety that became the widespread standard. On the other hand, beginners still don’t pull the safety QR. They still hold on to the bar as that’s their instinctive reaction. On the more advanced kiter side the hype about “big air” I bet added some increased injuries thus offsetting the gear improvements. Great video by the way and an important topic. As a windsurfer & kiter (rare species) I totally agree to what you presented.
Agreed on beginners not pulling safety QR, will add that sometimes intermediates and advanced don't do it too. Good point on big air hype adding the risk of injuries, we are definitely hooked on big airs.
Windsurfing for 40 years, zero injuries, kitesurfing for 20 years, zero injuries. While foiling I wear a helmet and impactvest / lifejacket.
Wow nice! windsurfing for 40 years, thats a long time, which one do you like more, kiting or windsurfing?
@@OurKiteLife kiting
Any tips for 20 years of kitesurfing without injuries you can share? I've also been windsurfing for 40 years without injuries but I'm a beginner kitesurfer.
@@MarwanSati Safety first! Take lessons and dont over estimate yr skills.
@@MarwanSati If in doubt, *Let go of the bar*. Take a look at the comment I made on this in the "Let go of the boom windsurfing, and it all stops, let go of the bar kiting, and it all starts." topic started by Adam B. I wish that someone had shared that advice to me when I was learning kitesurfing.
Very interesting video, to get more real overview it will be necessary to include the number of kite begginers and number of high level windsurf, so to have a proportion. Furthermore, if you are high level windsurfer you can be more or less radical so you will live longer!
Yes, agreed - hopefully they can do more studies with a more detailed breakdown in the future
The people that get injured are the ones that move on to the next sport. Buy a jetski etc. To get injured in that sport.
I got 2 injuried in 3 months windsurfing. Im intermediate and dont do tricks. 1 time my foot got stuck between the mast and board. This made me unable to walk for 2 days, the 3rd day I was back surfing. The 2nd time I fell at high speed where the sail went 1 direction, my body another, while still being hooked, the harness metal bar turned on my rib and pushed into it. The first few days couldnt sleep on that side. Its 3rd week now and still hurting, tho much less.
Sorry to hear that! Hope you feel better soon.
Thanks for the great video, seriously the best presentation of information in a direct yet engaging way, with cool background effects and showing raw data and helping viewers draw conclusions. Nice to see some science communicators in the Kite world, :!!!! ... As for your question.. I think the main factor at play is 1) safer and easier to release gear (should reduce injury rate) and 2) far more people learning to kite, more schools, lower bar of entry to the sport or to become an instructor (should increase injury rate)... .. based on your Cuba video, and my recent experiences... I think people are still shy to pull the safey and are buying and using gear independantly before they are ready... so my final hypothesis.... rate has gone up :)
Thanks so much :) good point - wouldn’t be surprised if the rate has gone up since the study period
Love the scientific approach.
You mentioned the helmet and I think beginners should wear one. I wore one the whole winter and suffered some harder back edge slams than without a helmet. I think considering a whiplash a helmet could improve the amount of drag on your neck. But i never found a study for or against my opinion. Maybe you got some better information?
Best wishes
We've heard anecdotally that helmets can make things worse sometimes, but personally we wish we had started wearing them (for snowkiting) earlier. Looking back at pictures of us snowkiting years ago without them is a little cringe-worthy now...
My dad had 2 GNARLY windsurf accidents. One his back front foot got out of the strap during a back flip and boom, long ass rod in the leg. The other one he almost got tetraplegic… thank god he still around ripping on short boards !!!
Yikes! Glad to hear he’s still riding :)
I'm a beginner kiter and I just bought a 2011 F-one Bandit 10m kite and bar. Upon inspection, I noticed that it has a two-line flag out instead of one, when QR is pulled. Is this a safety issue? Does anyone have experience with both types and does the two-line feel less safe than the one-line flagging?
To be honest we don't have experience with the two line system. We'd recommend asking on Kite Forum
getting fancy with the green screen! Ill bet injuries are up as sport gets more extreme!! Did the hospital thing last year when got tossed on a wave, bruised ribs, great time!
Thanks! We've had lots of time to use it now that we've been home for a while. Ouch - bruised ribs don't sound like fun, but we would assume that's better than a break
Спасибо! Взгляните на единомышленников из Сочи ua-cam.com/video/yk3g42UXeFs/v-deo.html
Super interesting video! Thanks
Good video, as always! I would think kiting injuries have stayed the same, since not pulling the QR is the main culprit.
That could very well be the case!
Hi, my name is Henrique, and I am doing my phd in Kitesurf and Windsurf risk perception .
Can you tell me the author of the study of this video?
Best regards
Windsurfing vs kitesurfing: Injuries at the North Sea over a 2-year period
Christiaan J A van Bergen, Joris P Commandeur, Rik I K Weber, Daniel Haverkamp, and Roelf S Breederveld
kiting is getting safer i think but i doubt a lot has changed in wind surfing but really know nothing about the equipment they use
Kites for sure have gotten safer, but has the sport overall? Now as foilboarding has emerged, more chances of getting injured. We had two accidents with foilboards on the beach so far last year, one needed a hospital visit.
watching this with a broken wrist yesterday from windsurfing
Ouch, sorry to hear that! Hope your recovery goes well
Still recovering from my
cruciate ligament operation. Torn by practicing kiteloops. 6 month recovery after operation
Sorry to hear that - sounds painful! Hope the rest of your recovery goes smoothly
The answer is simple: both sports are dangerous.
Can you do a video comparing a twintip.. loght wind board and surf board? Upwind ability. Lightwind ability.. chop
Thanks for the idea! We’ll see what we can do :)
Thank you.. maybe also the benefits of a foil board :)
To some extent I agree that with better de-powerable kites the potential for injuries for the individual kitesurfer is less than it used to be. However there has been a surge in the take up of kitesurfing so numerically more injuries. On the other hand there a few new windsurfers these days. Perhaps new joiners are attracted to be freestyle windsurfers where injuries are likely to be more frequent due to practicing difficult manouvers. During decades of windsurfing I have seen more serious injuries to kitesurfers, deaths appear to more frequent than windsurfers and sadly I witnessed one experienced kitesurfing instructor die due to line failure during a high jump.
So sorry to hear that. Most of the injuries we've witnessed have also happened as a result of a high jump gone wrong. The idea of a line failure during a high jump is terrifying.
@@OurKiteLife and he'd gone out jumping high to find someone's lost kiteboard that had got away from the owner in a strong outgoing tide rip.
😔😔😔
Thanks for the vid, great stuff!
I would wager that it also depends on country and social factors, as in some areas, schooling isn't as profesional or sought after, and there are still people learning to kite on their own, which always leads to accidents and injuries.
Good point!