I wish that the Pea Pod thing would count as one single plant, and not theup to five you can put in there. It's an interesting plant, but I almost never use it, and I'd use it much more often in those levels.
It's just a bad plant in general, even in conveyer levels it takes too long and it's too expensive to be able to stack them up to like 4 or 5 in order to get the value. It really should at least get some kind of buff for the amount of heads it has like little bit faster fire rate or increased toughness.
I think a lot of peoples issue with "don't lose X plants" might just come from Big Wave Beach 28. Because Big Wave Beach's entire strategy revolves around sacrificing plants you're willing to lose by putting them in the front lines.
Dont get me stated on dreadful Day 15 and Day 31 of BWB where theres endangered Potato Mines and Quacodiles respectively the latter of which gets triggered by hooks causing you to lose immediately in first seconds of the level, and its not fun replaying the same level only to lose to Fisherman, yes they arent as overpowered as Wizard or Octo Zombies but still should never be underestimated
I kinda like somewhat easy Last Stands as they let you experiment with high cost or just plain bad plants; Pirate seas 22 is one of my most played levels just to see which plants can make it, make it without losing one, etc.
Yeah, I have the opposite opinion on last stand vs. spend x sun than him, but it mostly comes down to level design. The last stand levels often have a good amount of sun you can spend, so you can try out funny or stupid plant compositions, and the long recharge/costly plants finallyy have a place they can shine. On the opposite, spend x sun levels often have idiotically low requirements and are absolutely miserable because they basically completely restrict you to very specific plants (a.k.a. all the costless ones and 1-2 super cheap ones) and you still have to build up the board with a bunch of shit plants you had little say in it. Also, the fact that it's like, the one objective you can just lose completely on accident because they fixed it for x amount of plants not this one makes this just completely aggravating.
The "don't spend sun for X seconds" has baited me _twice_ in mods (maybe in the same level) because I forgot both times that it doesn't have to be at the beginning of the level, just don't do it for some time within the level. I thought that you had to use plants like Iceberg (free stuff) to deal with the zombies before you could start using sun.
I actually kinda liked that one level in vanilla where dinosaurs are constantly kicking zombies over the flower line and you're given primal peashooters to work with so you have to constantly assess how well they are doing and control that so they can't knock zombies past the flower line *from the back.*
The use less sun than X amount is the worst objective IMO solely for the fact that you can pass the threshold by accident, like you said it could be a good objective but it’s glaring issue has made me fail the most
I feel like survive with most plants picked is actually better than all plants picked from a casual standpoint, because it can be annoying and a little jarring if you plan on using your own strategy and you’re suddenly forced to use something different and sometimes boring.
The thing is, survive with most plants does not change your gameplay at all. You just make a smaller version of the strategy you were using. The whole game (except for two worlds) is already designed for casuals, we didn't need more objectives for casuals, it's supposed to be balanced. People mostly spam the same single strat through out all of their playthrough, so forcing them to use a completely different strategy that still works with the level is great!
@@therealelement75 "Oh no, I can't spam the same strategy I used throught the whole game!" Just get good. If you only are able to play 7 plants and nothing else, you need to play a little more.
I actually like don't lose more than x plants, as long as the level doesn't include too many insta kill zombies, so it actually encourages walls and discourages instas.
I feel like all of the objectives have enough to them to be able to make a level really interesting but they just choose not to put in the work. I just thought up a really interesting endangered plant level idea for pirate seas. Lanes 1 3 and 5 have planks and an endangered spikeweed one tile back from the planks, barrel rollers spawn a lot and you have to stop them from rolling them over, but in the unplanked lanes theres endangered garlics that will redirect rope swing zombies into the main lanes cluttering them up making it harder to deal with the barrel rollers. But theres enough room for strategy due to the endangered plants having an empty tile in front of them. Honestly, I kinda wish I could help come up with ideas for challenge levels in a mod or something.
Seems like a fun idea, but there’s one really easy solution to the Spikeweeds. Just put a Spikerock in front of them. They will tank most hits from the barrel rollers. Also I wish Garlic wasn’t such a bad plant.
I feel they could have been more creative with some of the passive objectives. Like the produces x sun was a huge missed opportunity. What if it was produces x sun in order for the level to end. The longer the level goes on the harder it gets until it gets to difficult for the average player.
Or maybe they could make an actually hard amout of sun, cuz 6k sun isn't very hard to achieve. They could maybe do a modifier that makes zombies take damage with time or maybe just use zombies that self destruct, that way stalling wouldn't work
I LOVED the don’t lose more than x plants in altverse ancient Egypt. I had to make some extremely tough calls on what to do under a really strict time limit. My winning attempt had me SHOVEL multiple plants. It was insane
I definitely agree that the "don't lose more than x plants" objectives can be really interesting. The main problem is those times when you die to unfair luck. I think the best way to designing levels with this objective is to simply not include any zombies with insta-kill abilities (possible exception for non-mecha gargantuars). Without the nonsense insta-kills taking away your plants with you having little to no way to resist them then it's pretty fun. I'd say that this objective is the one most reliant upon level design. As you mentioned at the end, any objective can be interesting if the level is designed to match it, but some require more work than others and some have a larger range from good to bad. I think that this objective has the largest good/bad range of all of them due to how easy it is to make either an interesting level that blocks instas and plant selling or Big Wave Beach Day 28.
Yeah. I think that the best way to make a level based on that objective is to use zombies with low dps. No instakills, no chickens, no newspapers, imps and similars. Just slow/defensive zombeis. Afterall, the main gimmick of that objective is that you don't have access to instakills, so having to deal with bucketheads without using instas.
I think manual use plants (coconut cannon, banana launcher, not magnifying grass) could help improve conditions whose goal is “not to play the game” (last stand, don’t spend sun for x seconds, ect), because it gives you something more to do during the waiting period, making it feel like you’re actually playing the game.
I love last stands. Easily my favorite stage type. My opinion of them only lowered when I dedicated my life to shadow plants, and I still like them anyway. I'm not sure why sun bombs and the like don't count for this video(are they mini games?), but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the gimmick obstacle type conditions next.
What I hate is the combination of objectives. Particularly the sheet Trample the flowers, Mold colonies AND the conveyor belt. The lunar New year piñata is the worst where the winning condition is dependent on the RNG of Plant food and Locations of the Bucket head type Zombies where you can use PF on a Bok choy most effectively.
somehow Last stand is my most favorite mode It's close to sandbox mode in my eyes and I enjoy just watching new plant crushing zombie without having to spend time on sun part
I would just like to say it's great seeing this community still alive and well. I came back to the series after seeing Garden Warfare on Xbox and trying it out. It brought me back to PvZ 1 and 2 to play again. One more thing however before I leave. More Masterclass style videos like Sun Producers? It helped my gameplay in an extreme way and more like it would be great.
12:48 I once lost "More than X plants level" because my stupid ass thought it was a good idea to use Hazelnut Witch. So she ended up creating a bunch of puffshrooms that made me lost because it exceeded the given plant limit
Big wave and dark ages(or anything where zombies can trap plants) can have cheesable endangered plant objectives because you could just have all the endangered plants sheepified or trapped in an octopus, they won’t be eaten too
objectives are neat but I still prefer the OG PvZ2 1.0 way of handling them, where they were optional side quests to earn stars. PvZ2 1.0 had a lot of issues but that was honestly pretty neat.
if it;s anything to note the way pvz2 china works is with a close to same system basically a level has 2 versions, a normal version and a hard version in the hard version there are 3 stars you can earn which you get from completing a objective think getting a start from having spent lessthan 2200 sun this one I haven't seen in international pvz2 but another one is have more than x amount of plants on the lawn when you beat the level (to block the strat of just using lawnmowers on the final wave making you need to clear it out legitimately) if I recall correctly from what I have read from comment sections is the stars you earn let you unlock the zomboss levels at the end of the world, (and the other one I have seen is you know a battle pass progression system, so in "Secret Realms" they have that system (where when you reach star milestones you will unlock a reward with a free path and a payed path, with a big reward if you get all the stars) I have made a big comment but I hope this come out understandable
I just had an interesting idea when watching the defeat x zombies part. What if instead of that it was a whole level thing where you had to defeat a zombie every x seconds. That would actually weaken stallers, pretty much the meta of pvz2. You could also use gargs or other strong zombies to make it feel more frantic rather than just weakening stallers, as you'd have to pick off weaker zombies to stall for time to kill the larger threats.
I absolutely adore the music in these videos! As someone who finds OMORI soundtracks insanely underrated and unknown, I always get excited when I hear em in the vid lol.
I think «Produce X Sun» could be wayyy better when A. You made final wave spawn zombie below the lawn like in altverz B. You need to SAVE the sun for the finale of level, this would be perfect objective with this issues!
endangered plants has the highest highs but man it can feel frustrating i didnt really notice the insanely good ways of using it until you pointed them out lol so thanks? edit: also, you should include the mod name of the mod you’re playing in the bg in the corner
For the endangered plants, i find it ok but the its shot way down as most levels place them in the first 4 rows and spam instakill zombies and stuff on it, making the objective good, but the levels with it horrible
Random thoughts no-one will read: - I had no idea mold colonies could be more interesting than "Hahah you lose the back of your lawn," the modded applications are waaaaay cooler than anything the unmodded game ever does - Collect X Sun would be marginally more interesting if the level instawon when you got the sun, as opposed to actually having to finish the rest of it - Flower Line should have the lawnmowers at the flower line for a one-time save, as opposed to where they do nothing - Destroy X Grid Items would be fun if a) all X were on the map at game start (gravestones?) and b) destroying all of them instawon the level
I think it would be funny to have a level where you have a flower line and the last flag is IMPOSSIBLE to beat, so you need to use knockbacks, plants that can't be eaten like spikeweed or infi-nut or something else that can make the zombies go through the flowers and use the lawnmowers to kill the impossible wave.
12:43 I mistakenly thought that it was possible to lose the Never Have More Than X Plants objective using Holly Barrier, Spore-shroom, or Witch Hazel. Holly Barrier's leaf barriers count as plants for the objective, but thanks to your remark I learned that the new plants simply don't spawn above the maximum
Several things that would make these objectives better are: -Making the don't spend sun levels similar to the Least Cash challenges in Bloons, in that it stops you from over spending, and not weigh the objective hard in the early levels -Making score levels not about reaching a super high score target, but about scoring as many points as you can by strategizing your plant layouts and then the points you earn turn to coins at the end of the level, similar to the Cannons Away levels -Make don't lose plant levels more forgiving, as in having less special and/or tanky zombies, and not weighing the plant loss objective hard in the game -Use mold colonies in interesting ways, such as blocking different tiles, instead of the ones at the back -Have flower lines a bit further away from the zombies so as not to risk losing the level quickly -Make new loss screens for the objectives instead of the boring ones: Like for the flowers, "THE ZOMBIES TRAMPLED THE FLOWERS!", for Ghost Pepper, "GHOST PEPPER DID NOT SURVIVE!", and for mold colonies in bonus levels, "YOU PLANTED ON DAVE'S MOLD COLONIES!".
@@lol1013 i think it could work if like lets say dont lose more than levels were based off levels that dont really require you to use instants, sometimes they're just normal levels for some reason so that does nothing but limit your choices
No? "Don't spend more than __" is just slow last stand, like Creepz said in the video. It discourages sun production since sun producers become useless after you hit the limit. "Don't plant more than __" is made so you use heavier and more expensive plants instead of spamming cheaper plants like lightning reed. And "Don't lose more than __" is there to make you not insta spam, like most people do through most levels. One of my favorite plants is iceberg lettuce and I still love that objective because it forces me to get a different early game that isn't "stall one zombie while I get double sun producer)
thats kind of the point though? limits reward creativity when you can work around the restrictions placed on you and still succeed. it may not be that fun and maybe not fun to you, but its kind of the point of any objective. your restrictions goes from "defeat all zombies" to "defeat all zombies WHILE doing [enter objective]"
I disagree with Last Stand, because it really makes you think of what you should use for your defense before the zombies arrive. You don't have to grind out sun in Last Stand levels.
Aight, after watching the video, it's very well crafted as a whole, giving insight on everything that makes pvz 2 unique and well, a natural progression from pvz 1, if these were removed, it wouldn't feel like pvz 2,. Anywho i'm going to say what my favs and least favorite ones from pvz 2 by also describing it just because of boredom, but also being one of the people who played from oldest ver. (will obvs pass the penny's pursuit objectives since i never played em.) Locked and Loaded are honestly a level type i always just look forward to, dunno. they give you that idea of theorize on how you can do things with given plants, giving you a literal key to win em, reminds me a bit of pvz 1's deal with giving you the plant and inmediatedly the zombie you counter, its a natural stepup to me. Mold colonies exist, straight up they don't affect anything big, i just straight up never lost one of these. (the most i can think of rn is big wave beach for that lvl without being able to plant on sand honestly.) Endangered plants are so damn good, sure they can be tricky to manage but god damn i love em, if you ain't cheap about em, ya bloody can make the most outta these, puffshroom is still the highlight due to how it actually incentivises you to use plant food and learn more of puff. Never have more than X plants, the more that i see these, it incentivises me up to just optimize a strat with the surprisingly lenient obj, ive remember the days where it got mixed with various objs, usually with don't spend more than x sun. Last stand, so. this one is a slog. straight up, so, on pvz 1 mobile versions, you had last stand day to roof, it felt more like a loaded and loaded lvl with sun for each wave set complete & last stand name slapped on it, but on pvz 2 it feels so damn long that my brain straight up did the most strats on the funny pirate seas lvl 22, cause for me, the rest of em i didn't just do another strat. Survive without mowers, redundantly pointless on newer versions, these were more prominent on older versions where it was; don't lose any mowers for a single star in tandem of other objs. Produce X sun, very easy if you don't overrush the lvl as a whole, cause in that point it eather is; spam a lot of sun producers or stall the final wave. Flower line, yeah i def used spikeweed for situations where the flowerline was in the middle of the tile. it honestly ain't a bad restriction, oddly enough. they didn't think of mixing mold and flower line, i lowkey expected that at one point during the game, but...no. Defeat X zombies in X secs; I forgot about this one, its just not a lvl type i would lose on. dunno, it just felt like; here's your insta ready to win, always brought cherry bomb for these. Spend less than X sun, yeah i straight up died a few times due to me goofing off and man. lvls aren't hard, they are just always remember that counter above, just bringing 0 sun cost plants break it slightly. Don't lose X plants: These get cheap at some points, not only due to ah yeah, you can lose em quickly, but also; i just straight up abused walls since wallnut kit doesn't make you lose those plants, same with chard guard overplanted on itself. Most plants chosen; ...i mean, locked and loaded 1.5 essentially. Don't spend sun for X secs; Dunno chief, i just straight up didn't play for seconds on the beginning of the game, sure not ideal but hey, its better to redo the lvl on a period that fast forward doesn't exist and you are used to playing with it. Score X points: numbers are a thing that don't hype up for the lvl, the best example is the coconut shooting parrot lvls, but...yeaah these don't do much.
The biggest reason I hate the "Don't lose more than X plants" level is that I CAN'T SHOVEL, like in many instances I put a cheap attacking plant in the back until I get more sun to plant a melon or something (since I can't rely on instas and most walls take very long times to recharge) but since shoveling counts as losing a plant it in these levels it instantly makes the level unbearable for me
Arena and penny pursuit sometimes have mold formations that cover half the lawn at random checkered patterns Forcing you to either multi lane hitting plants
This vid made me realize that locked and loaded is a good objective AND can make any other objective fun if done right Like every objective I say "that could be fun with locked and loaded"
I feel like the best example of Locked and Loaded is in Frostbite Caves, where you don't get sun producers in your deck, but there are 8 sunflowers on the field with three being on the top and bottom lane which have slider tiles, and the adjacent lanes to them have one. There are Dodo Zombies, so people who try to defend the middle 3 lanes will get their sun producers eaten. Also, THIS IS VANILLA PVZ 2. That's the kind of level design that i love in this game.
i think the flower line would benefit from being designed more like mowers, where you instead get a bonus from protecting them maybe each flower tile is a piece of the ending bonus, and you only immediately lose if all the flowers are trampled, do even only one flower remaining is fine (you're probs not gonna get the bonus for that tho)
Endangered plants, while fun, most of the time is just hell. It's so annoying whenever the game makes it like a lettuce iceberg or a crocodile, it doesn't give you enough time to react which is just stupid.
i agree with most things aside from sun timer and spend no more than X, id put no more than X in A just because i really like the pressure you can get from it, and i personally never lose to it accidentaly (hasnt happend to me in my *insert long time* of playing this game lol, but i understand the people that do complain about it). Sun Timer is B for me because i really like the quick desition making you have to do for it, "do i want to stay with this defense for a while or do i want to keep planting more stuff", always was a fan of that to be honest. Good vid man, cheers.
Pirate Seas Day 22 is one the funniest levels ever, but I love it, interesting concept, hilariously exploitable weakness, the weeds, Spike and Rock can easily cripple the level if you pair them with Wal-Nuts and Snapdragons.
You may not lime them individually, but by combining Last Stand, No Mowers and Don't Lose X Plants you can cover each objective's weaknesses by making short Last Stand levels that can't be cheezed with instas or mowers.
I played 2 much pvz china version nowadays where the don't lose plant keep screwing me over and over made me really hate that thing cus their special lvl have mechanic to kill your stuff really easily (and in the special lvl all objective can kill u cus it's stupid even producing sun,usually 8k and other crap and other special conditions as well)
on a dumb unrelated joke. Zomboss in penny's pursuit when you use reinforce-mint with peanut and torchwood (only works well when you have enough sun and time to create *the hoarde* )
I'm pretty sure that some of the objectives also had an instant-loss condition in the old times. You could actually plant on the Mold Colonies accidentaly and you could accidentally go over the Never have more than x plants limit as well. Yes, you could just simply put a plant on a mold and straight up lose the level LOL
But it is still possible to fail the objective "Never have more than x plants" leading to the loss of a level on some circumstances, such as Witch Hazel spawning a Puff-shroom and berries from Holly Barrier and the plant limit is exceeded. Also from 1.7 to 1.8, losing lawn mowers is also an instant-loss condition.
This video is like an essay where you have all of your points explained, but haven’t reached the required word count, so you have to go into extreme detail just to pad out each paragraph. Padded out equally, so that it isn’t obvious.
Will have to watch this after school, when I do I may or may not edit this to be a massive comment on everything discussed on this video Agree with everything, didn't think 20:21 was a bug though, thought that was intentional because it only applies to levels where endangered flowers is in the middle. Still agree with the rating
The spikeweed not triggering the flower line makes sense because you plant on top of the flowers so when the zombies walk over it they walk over spikeweed instead of the flowers
Its true we all have flappy heads and beady eyes South Park is true Canadian had a pretty confusing dialect, you say buddy when talking to a mutual friend you say guy when you talk to a stranger and you say friend after every couple sentences (unless you are from any of the costal islands then you switch buddy and friend in this context)
I hate endangered plants solely because of The Old Queens rematch in Eclise. Four endangered sunflowers on minecarts. IN COLUMN EIGHT. WITH BARREL ROLLERS. Holy shit that level sucked ass. Another problem is in Reflourished, where they nerf plants in locked n' loaded levels and then don't nerf the levels alongside them... some of them are frustrating, rng based, and one is straight up impossible without powerups.
Modern Day Level 16 is impossible in Reflourished without power ups or insane luck. How did they not realize that they should rebalance vanilla levels?
@@nc7718 I don't think any of the plants from either of those levels got nerfed (Sun-Shroom is the only one that comes to mind). How did you find them more difficult?
I personally enjoy the Last Stand levels, though mostly when I played the Chinese edition of the game. My favorite level to go to whenever I got a new plant just to try it out was a last stand level in Ancient Egypt because of how low consequence it meant to lose and how basic of a world/level it was compared to other worlds/levels since it was, if I remember correctly, just normals, cones, buckets, mummies, and gargs Though I can pretty much agree for the most part on the other objectives
mold colonies + dont trample the flowers(the flowers are at the very very back.) + prospector zombie + dont plant more than 10 plants + dont lose more than 5 plants + basically every other objective + zomboss in dark ages.
the locked and loaded objective is the best thing ever for me, i hate having to spend 10 minutes to pick the last plant in the plant selection screen just to end up not even using it in the level
I gotta say, some b+ tier modifiers can have some levels designed to suck [as in bwb 30] and some f tier modifiers like maybe no lawnmowers can be played properly. It all just comes down to level design [levels like ps22 final stand is likely one of these interesting concepts that makes you try different stuff to see what works and what not]
![[Limbus Company (ESP/EN)] Project Moon 8th Annivesary Livestream LIVE REACTION](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DgNIfJ1i8uk/mqdefault.jpg)
It's almost as if this tier list is somewhat subjective for it states the creator's opinion. I doubt Creepz would pull such a trick on us, however...
shhhhhhhh
Lol
@@Creeps20 where are the Sun Bomb levels you coward
@@ericwijaya2119 far future
@@ericwijaya2119 no minigames because those aren't real objectives
I wish that the Pea Pod thing would count as one single plant, and not theup to five you can put in there. It's an interesting plant, but I almost never use it, and I'd use it much more often in those levels.
which is dumb that it counts as 5 because ultomato another plant that has the stacking gimmick but it still only counts as 1 when stacked
@@KrazeemSB2 Because it's a seedium plant 🤓
@@MikhailAurellio And I guess they never realized the plant would be used in the beat the level with only x amount of plants
It's just a bad plant in general, even in conveyer levels it takes too long and it's too expensive to be able to stack them up to like 4 or 5 in order to get the value. It really should at least get some kind of buff for the amount of heads it has like little bit faster fire rate or increased toughness.
@@SecureBirch410 Yeah; the only conveyor they truly work in are ones with minecarts, or maybe the ice/arrow tiles that push zombies into another lane.
I think a lot of peoples issue with "don't lose X plants" might just come from Big Wave Beach 28. Because Big Wave Beach's entire strategy revolves around sacrificing plants you're willing to lose by putting them in the front lines.
Infinut plant food: Am I joke to you?
@@thunderspark1536 Infinut doesn't save you from Surfboards and High Tide.
I’ve actually been replaying the game, and it took me a solid couple of days to beat that level. Yeah it sucks.
Also that level is a big reason people despise Big wave beach, the fisher and the octozombi. The level is just HORRIBLE to play.
Dont get me stated on dreadful Day 15 and Day 31 of BWB where theres endangered Potato Mines and Quacodiles respectively the latter of which gets triggered by hooks causing you to lose immediately in first seconds of the level, and its not fun replaying the same level only to lose to Fisherman, yes they arent as overpowered as Wizard or Octo Zombies but still should never be underestimated
Endangered plant levels have produced one of my underrated most frustrating levels in the game, big wave beach 15
Isnt that the one that gets cheesed by chard guard?
That level is absolutely nothing compared to BWB 30 lol
@@Juli_is_Online don't care, I found it irritating
Well i beat that level with "Only using 150 sun cost plants or more" challenge though.
@@MikhailAurellio 👍
I kinda like somewhat easy Last Stands as they let you experiment with high cost or just plain bad plants; Pirate seas 22 is one of my most played levels just to see which plants can make it, make it without losing one, etc.
PS 22 quite literally one of the most memorable moments in vanilla for me. The sheer stupidity of it
Agreed! Last stands are so fun to mess around on
Yeah, I have the opposite opinion on last stand vs. spend x sun than him, but it mostly comes down to level design.
The last stand levels often have a good amount of sun you can spend, so you can try out funny or stupid plant compositions, and the long recharge/costly plants finallyy have a place they can shine.
On the opposite, spend x sun levels often have idiotically low requirements and are absolutely miserable because they basically completely restrict you to very specific plants (a.k.a. all the costless ones and 1-2 super cheap ones) and you still have to build up the board with a bunch of shit plants you had little say in it. Also, the fact that it's like, the one objective you can just lose completely on accident because they fixed it for x amount of plants not this one makes this just completely aggravating.
You can beat pirate seas day 22 with one line of the wind daisys or whatever their called
Draftodills
The "don't spend sun for X seconds" has baited me _twice_ in mods (maybe in the same level) because I forgot both times that it doesn't have to be at the beginning of the level, just don't do it for some time within the level.
I thought that you had to use plants like Iceberg (free stuff) to deal with the zombies before you could start using sun.
Oh.
same lol
The title needs a few more adjectives
Your insides will be splattered across the pavement
Objectively more adjectives, you could say
"An objectively objective tier list on objectives that is objective objectively"
An objective objectively objective tier list objectively on objectively objective objectives
Nah, It needs more nouns
PVZ player: "I hate spend less than X sun!"
Bloons Player: "I hate half cash!"
*picture of a peashooter and monkey kissing*
*🤨🏳️🌈❔*
@Jack Saint Livestreams Archive @REPLA_ACE oh hey I recognize you from the WHY PVZ DIED comments section
@@Jack_Saint_Archive 🏳️🌈
@@Jack_Saint_Archive🏳️🌈💕
We really do hate half cash though, ravine on chimps vs half cash logs
I actually kinda liked that one level in vanilla where dinosaurs are constantly kicking zombies over the flower line and you're given primal peashooters to work with so you have to constantly assess how well they are doing and control that so they can't knock zombies past the flower line *from the back.*
The use less sun than X amount is the worst objective IMO solely for the fact that you can pass the threshold by accident, like you said it could be a good objective but it’s glaring issue has made me fail the most
The annoying thing is it used to be the same for Never have more than X plants, but they patched that yet didn't patch the sun limit one
man! locked and loaded was so good that pvz 3 is ALL locked and loaded levels! Thank you Popcap!! 😇🙏🏻🙏🏻
I feel like survive with most plants picked is actually better than all plants picked from a casual standpoint, because it can be annoying and a little jarring if you plan on using your own strategy and you’re suddenly forced to use something different and sometimes boring.
yeah, you're forced with a certain strategy, and don't get to choose
@@therealelement75 exactly
@@snapslingpeavine1371 yeah I hate those levels
The thing is, survive with most plants does not change your gameplay at all. You just make a smaller version of the strategy you were using. The whole game (except for two worlds) is already designed for casuals, we didn't need more objectives for casuals, it's supposed to be balanced. People mostly spam the same single strat through out all of their playthrough, so forcing them to use a completely different strategy that still works with the level is great!
@@therealelement75 "Oh no, I can't spam the same strategy I used throught the whole game!" Just get good. If you only are able to play 7 plants and nothing else, you need to play a little more.
I actually like don't lose more than x plants, as long as the level doesn't include too many insta kill zombies, so it actually encourages walls and discourages instas.
It would probably be just better to lock away instas for the level, so....
*A L O E*
Iceberg lettuce can be a useful insta on some of these levels, but only for it's powerup
Honestly I'd even say it was a decent goal until I got to big wave beach.
I feel like all of the objectives have enough to them to be able to make a level really interesting but they just choose not to put in the work.
I just thought up a really interesting endangered plant level idea for pirate seas.
Lanes 1 3 and 5 have planks and an endangered spikeweed one tile back from the planks, barrel rollers spawn a lot and you have to stop them from rolling them over, but in the unplanked lanes theres endangered garlics that will redirect rope swing zombies into the main lanes cluttering them up making it harder to deal with the barrel rollers. But theres enough room for strategy due to the endangered plants having an empty tile in front of them.
Honestly, I kinda wish I could help come up with ideas for challenge levels in a mod or something.
holy crap thats actually good
Seems like a fun idea, but there’s one really easy solution to the Spikeweeds. Just put a Spikerock in front of them. They will tank most hits from the barrel rollers. Also I wish Garlic wasn’t such a bad plant.
@HungryWarden True but just have the level before you get access to spikerock, better yet have spikerock be unlocked from completing the level
Fun fact: spore shroom and witch hazel can make you fail the "Never have more than X plants" objectives.
Found that out the hard way once
Are they even your plants if they were created autonomously by something that you are only indirectly responsible for?
Could potato mine, primal potato mine, and lily pad's plant foods also make you fail?
No. They just dont spawn
@@mikelsantiagoamayaromero1804 they may have patched it at some point, but I remember failing a plant max level with hazel
Spear mint
i liked the endangered plant level where you had to keep using plant food on the puff shroom to survive
*Puff Shroom did not survive*
I DID NOT
I feel they could have been more creative with some of the passive objectives. Like the produces x sun was a huge missed opportunity. What if it was produces x sun in order for the level to end. The longer the level goes on the harder it gets until it gets to difficult for the average player.
Like the slot machine format in pvz1 right?
@@oomygamerchannel936 Something like
Or maybe they could make an actually hard amout of sun, cuz 6k sun isn't very hard to achieve. They could maybe do a modifier that makes zombies take damage with time or maybe just use zombies that self destruct, that way stalling wouldn't work
Trample flowers is fine, but putting it close to the front is SADISTIC
Good thing there's no "trample flowers" level where the flowers are *before the first tile on the lawn*
Md 30!
i think what we learned from this is that Wild West conveyor belts are an amazing mechanic
This is an objective tier list on objectives. Here´s why.
Fun video!
Finally, an objective tierlist
I LOVED the don’t lose more than x plants in altverse ancient Egypt. I had to make some extremely tough calls on what to do under a really strict time limit. My winning attempt had me SHOVEL multiple plants. It was insane
I definitely agree that the "don't lose more than x plants" objectives can be really interesting. The main problem is those times when you die to unfair luck. I think the best way to designing levels with this objective is to simply not include any zombies with insta-kill abilities (possible exception for non-mecha gargantuars). Without the nonsense insta-kills taking away your plants with you having little to no way to resist them then it's pretty fun. I'd say that this objective is the one most reliant upon level design. As you mentioned at the end, any objective can be interesting if the level is designed to match it, but some require more work than others and some have a larger range from good to bad. I think that this objective has the largest good/bad range of all of them due to how easy it is to make either an interesting level that blocks instas and plant selling or Big Wave Beach Day 28.
Yeah. I think that the best way to make a level based on that objective is to use zombies with low dps. No instakills, no chickens, no newspapers, imps and similars. Just slow/defensive zombeis. Afterall, the main gimmick of that objective is that you don't have access to instakills, so having to deal with bucketheads without using instas.
It’s fair grounds. Neither you nor zombies can use insta kills.
I completely ignored Peanut in that locked and loaded level in middle ages, haha.
35:39 the way the narrator says “NO” made me think that he detests it so much.
I think manual use plants (coconut cannon, banana launcher, not magnifying grass) could help improve conditions whose goal is “not to play the game” (last stand, don’t spend sun for x seconds, ect), because it gives you something more to do during the waiting period, making it feel like you’re actually playing the game.
I love last stands. Easily my favorite stage type. My opinion of them only lowered when I dedicated my life to shadow plants, and I still like them anyway.
I'm not sure why sun bombs and the like don't count for this video(are they mini games?), but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the gimmick obstacle type conditions next.
Maybe it's because they're World-specific since Potions aren't here either
Those are brain busters, kinda like minigames
@@scmbgoogle7790brain busters *are* objectives
The realease of this video made me so super happy. Your videos are the only ones on youtube that i jump for joy for
What I hate is the combination of objectives.
Particularly the sheet Trample the flowers, Mold colonies AND the conveyor belt. The lunar New year piñata is the worst where the winning condition is dependent on the RNG of Plant food and Locations of the Bucket head type Zombies where you can use PF on a Bok choy most effectively.
somehow Last stand is my most favorite mode
It's close to sandbox mode in my eyes and I enjoy just watching new plant crushing zombie without having to spend time on sun part
I completely agree
I would just like to say it's great seeing this community still alive and well. I came back to the series after seeing Garden Warfare on Xbox and trying it out. It brought me back to PvZ 1 and 2 to play again. One more thing however before I leave. More Masterclass style videos like Sun Producers? It helped my gameplay in an extreme way and more like it would be great.
12:48 I once lost "More than X plants level" because my stupid ass thought it was a good idea to use Hazelnut Witch. So she ended up creating a bunch of puffshrooms that made me lost because it exceeded the given plant limit
Now we need a Jurassic Marsh dinosaur tierlist
Big wave and dark ages(or anything where zombies can trap plants) can have cheesable endangered plant objectives because you could just have all the endangered plants sheepified or trapped in an octopus, they won’t be eaten too
objectives are neat but I still prefer the OG PvZ2 1.0 way of handling them, where they were optional side quests to earn stars. PvZ2 1.0 had a lot of issues but that was honestly pretty neat.
if it;s anything to note the way pvz2 china works is with a close to same system
basically a level has 2 versions, a normal version and a hard version
in the hard version there are 3 stars you can earn which you get from completing a objective
think getting a start from having spent lessthan 2200 sun
this one I haven't seen in international pvz2 but another one is have more than x amount of plants on the lawn when you beat the level (to block the strat of just using lawnmowers on the final wave making you need to clear it out legitimately)
if I recall correctly from what I have read from comment sections is the stars you earn let you unlock the zomboss levels at the end of the world, (and the other one I have seen is you know a battle pass progression system, so in "Secret Realms" they have that system (where when you reach star milestones you will unlock a reward with a free path and a payed path, with a big reward if you get all the stars)
I have made a big comment but I hope this come out understandable
I just had an interesting idea when watching the defeat x zombies part. What if instead of that it was a whole level thing where you had to defeat a zombie every x seconds. That would actually weaken stallers, pretty much the meta of pvz2. You could also use gargs or other strong zombies to make it feel more frantic rather than just weakening stallers, as you'd have to pick off weaker zombies to stall for time to kill the larger threats.
TFW you leave a Prospector to die at the end of a Flowers level only for it to not self-destruct and instead trample the flowers and cause a losd
I absolutely adore the music in these videos! As someone who finds OMORI soundtracks insanely underrated and unknown, I always get excited when I hear em in the vid lol.
I think «Produce X Sun» could be wayyy better when
A. You made final wave spawn zombie below the lawn like in altverz
B. You need to SAVE the sun for the finale of level, this would be perfect objective with this issues!
"Mostly because it's dumb and nobody else would ever think of it"
Gold Ninja Vlog Spot:
GOT HIMMMMMMMMMM
endangered plants has the highest highs but man it can feel frustrating
i didnt really notice the insanely good ways of using it until you pointed them out lol so thanks?
edit: also, you should include the mod name of the mod you’re playing in the bg in the corner
For the endangered plants, i find it ok but the its shot way down as most levels place them in the first 4 rows and spam instakill zombies and stuff on it, making the objective good, but the levels with it horrible
i just kind of like listening to your voice.
nice, relaxed and well informed noises are my sleep aid.
Random thoughts no-one will read:
- I had no idea mold colonies could be more interesting than "Hahah you lose the back of your lawn," the modded applications are waaaaay cooler than anything the unmodded game ever does
- Collect X Sun would be marginally more interesting if the level instawon when you got the sun, as opposed to actually having to finish the rest of it
- Flower Line should have the lawnmowers at the flower line for a one-time save, as opposed to where they do nothing
- Destroy X Grid Items would be fun if a) all X were on the map at game start (gravestones?) and b) destroying all of them instawon the level
I think it would be funny to have a level where you have a flower line and the last flag is IMPOSSIBLE to beat, so you need to use knockbacks, plants that can't be eaten like spikeweed or infi-nut or something else that can make the zombies go through the flowers and use the lawnmowers to kill the impossible wave.
The flower line levels always gave me a ton of anxiety.
Funnily enough how we feel about endangered plants and last stands are completely opposite. Interesting
One is put the plants and just wait, the other one is "if you blink, you die"
12:43 I mistakenly thought that it was possible to lose the Never Have More Than X Plants objective using Holly Barrier, Spore-shroom, or Witch Hazel. Holly Barrier's leaf barriers count as plants for the objective, but thanks to your remark I learned that the new plants simply don't spawn above the maximum
Given plants is a really fun concept!
Several things that would make these objectives better are:
-Making the don't spend sun levels similar to the Least Cash challenges in Bloons, in that it stops you from over spending, and not weigh the objective hard in the early levels
-Making score levels not about reaching a super high score target, but about scoring as many points as you can by strategizing your plant layouts and then the points you earn turn to coins at the end of the level, similar to the Cannons Away levels
-Make don't lose plant levels more forgiving, as in having less special and/or tanky zombies, and not weighing the plant loss objective hard in the game
-Use mold colonies in interesting ways, such as blocking different tiles, instead of the ones at the back
-Have flower lines a bit further away from the zombies so as not to risk losing the level quickly
-Make new loss screens for the objectives instead of the boring ones: Like for the flowers, "THE ZOMBIES TRAMPLED THE FLOWERS!", for Ghost Pepper, "GHOST PEPPER DID NOT SURVIVE!", and for mold colonies in bonus levels, "YOU PLANTED ON DAVE'S MOLD COLONIES!".
"dont spend more than __" is the literal fun police, along with "dont plant more than ___" and "dont lose more than __" they just limit your options
I think those objectives should be used together with predetermined plants or conveyor
@@lol1013 i think it could work if like lets say dont lose more than levels were based off levels that dont really require you to use instants, sometimes they're just normal levels for some reason so that does nothing but limit your choices
No?
"Don't spend more than __" is just slow last stand, like Creepz said in the video. It discourages sun production since sun producers become useless after you hit the limit.
"Don't plant more than __" is made so you use heavier and more expensive plants instead of spamming cheaper plants like lightning reed.
And "Don't lose more than __" is there to make you not insta spam, like most people do through most levels. One of my favorite plants is iceberg lettuce and I still love that objective because it forces me to get a different early game that isn't "stall one zombie while I get double sun producer)
thats kind of the point though? limits reward creativity when you can work around the restrictions placed on you and still succeed. it may not be that fun and maybe not fun to you, but its kind of the point of any objective. your restrictions goes from "defeat all zombies" to "defeat all zombies WHILE doing [enter objective]"
I disagree with Last Stand, because it really makes you think of what you should use for your defense before the zombies arrive. You don't have to grind out sun in Last Stand levels.
Nah Last Stand is the most fun objective, period. Don't spend sun is a really clever and challenging one too.
Aight, after watching the video, it's very well crafted as a whole, giving insight on everything that makes pvz 2 unique and well, a natural progression from pvz 1, if these were removed, it wouldn't feel like pvz 2,. Anywho i'm going to say what my favs and least favorite ones from pvz 2 by also describing it just because of boredom, but also being one of the people who played from oldest ver. (will obvs pass the penny's pursuit objectives since i never played em.)
Locked and Loaded are honestly a level type i always just look forward to, dunno. they give you that idea of theorize on how you can do things with given plants, giving you a literal key to win em, reminds me a bit of pvz 1's deal with giving you the plant and inmediatedly the zombie you counter, its a natural stepup to me.
Mold colonies exist, straight up they don't affect anything big, i just straight up never lost one of these. (the most i can think of rn is big wave beach for that lvl without being able to plant on sand honestly.)
Endangered plants are so damn good, sure they can be tricky to manage but god damn i love em, if you ain't cheap about em, ya bloody can make the most outta these, puffshroom is still the highlight due to how it actually incentivises you to use plant food and learn more of puff.
Never have more than X plants, the more that i see these, it incentivises me up to just optimize a strat with the surprisingly lenient obj, ive remember the days where it got mixed with various objs, usually with don't spend more than x sun.
Last stand, so. this one is a slog. straight up, so, on pvz 1 mobile versions, you had last stand day to roof, it felt more like a loaded and loaded lvl with sun for each wave set complete & last stand name slapped on it, but on pvz 2 it feels so damn long that my brain straight up did the most strats on the funny pirate seas lvl 22, cause for me, the rest of em i didn't just do another strat.
Survive without mowers, redundantly pointless on newer versions, these were more prominent on older versions where it was; don't lose any mowers for a single star in tandem of other objs.
Produce X sun, very easy if you don't overrush the lvl as a whole, cause in that point it eather is; spam a lot of sun producers or stall the final wave.
Flower line, yeah i def used spikeweed for situations where the flowerline was in the middle of the tile. it honestly ain't a bad restriction, oddly enough. they didn't think of mixing mold and flower line, i lowkey expected that at one point during the game, but...no.
Defeat X zombies in X secs; I forgot about this one, its just not a lvl type i would lose on. dunno, it just felt like; here's your insta ready to win, always brought cherry bomb for these.
Spend less than X sun, yeah i straight up died a few times due to me goofing off and man. lvls aren't hard, they are just always remember that counter above, just bringing 0 sun cost plants break it slightly.
Don't lose X plants: These get cheap at some points, not only due to ah yeah, you can lose em quickly, but also; i just straight up abused walls since wallnut kit doesn't make you lose those plants, same with chard guard overplanted on itself.
Most plants chosen; ...i mean, locked and loaded 1.5 essentially.
Don't spend sun for X secs; Dunno chief, i just straight up didn't play for seconds on the beginning of the game, sure not ideal but hey, its better to redo the lvl on a period that fast forward doesn't exist and you are used to playing with it.
Score X points: numbers are a thing that don't hype up for the lvl, the best example is the coconut shooting parrot lvls, but...yeaah these don't do much.
The biggest reason I hate the "Don't lose more than X plants" level is that I CAN'T SHOVEL, like in many instances I put a cheap attacking plant in the back until I get more sun to plant a melon or something (since I can't rely on instas and most walls take very long times to recharge) but since shoveling counts as losing a plant it in these levels it instantly makes the level unbearable for me
The objective behind ranking objective is hard to object the objective of being objectively funny!
I never noticed that the flower line flowers have faces
Arena and penny pursuit sometimes have mold formations that cover half the lawn at random checkered patterns
Forcing you to either multi lane hitting plants
This vid made me realize that locked and loaded is a good objective AND can make any other objective fun if done right
Like every objective I say "that could be fun with locked and loaded"
5:11 I think a good way to do it, is by banning plant.
I feel like the best example of Locked and Loaded is in Frostbite Caves, where you don't get sun producers in your deck, but there are 8 sunflowers on the field with three being on the top and bottom lane which have slider tiles, and the adjacent lanes to them have one. There are Dodo Zombies, so people who try to defend the middle 3 lanes will get their sun producers eaten. Also, THIS IS VANILLA PVZ 2. That's the kind of level design that i love in this game.
i think the flower line would benefit from being designed more like mowers, where you instead get a bonus from protecting them
maybe each flower tile is a piece of the ending bonus, and you only immediately lose if all the flowers are trampled, do even only one flower remaining is fine (you're probs not gonna get the bonus for that tho)
Endangered plants, while fun, most of the time is just hell. It's so annoying whenever the game makes it like a lettuce iceberg or a crocodile, it doesn't give you enough time to react which is just stupid.
i can quite literally hear the omori brainrot slowly consuming creeps, the ost is becoming more and more common with each video
Ik, it's great!
i agree with most things aside from sun timer and spend no more than X, id put no more than X in A just because i really like the pressure you can get from it, and i personally never lose to it accidentaly (hasnt happend to me in my *insert long time* of playing this game lol, but i understand the people that do complain about it).
Sun Timer is B for me because i really like the quick desition making you have to do for it, "do i want to stay with this defense for a while or do i want to keep planting more stuff", always was a fan of that to be honest. Good vid man, cheers.
15:18
Reflourished devs and players: *nervous sweating*
Don’t they just remove them I don’t think its stated
I feel like an all manual locked and last stand could work really well
"Nobody else would ever think of it"
Me who already searched for this: ...
How is this channel so small this is like official kd level of art
This guy may not have the best ideas for videos, but a solid S tier ranking voice.
tier lists of things that really shouldn't be in tierlists are my absolutely favorite thing ever
40 minute video from creeps? brb gotta prepare the popcorn
Truly, the greatest video that ranks all objectives
Nice objective objective tier list
Pirate Seas Day 22 is one the funniest levels ever, but I love it, interesting concept, hilariously exploitable weakness, the weeds, Spike and Rock can easily cripple the level if you pair them with Wal-Nuts and Snapdragons.
Had to read that title a few times to understand it
You may not lime them individually, but by combining Last Stand, No Mowers and Don't Lose X Plants you can cover each objective's weaknesses by making short Last Stand levels that can't be cheezed with instas or mowers.
I played 2 much pvz china version nowadays where the don't lose plant keep screwing me over and over made me really hate that thing cus their special lvl have mechanic to kill your stuff really easily
(and in the special lvl all objective can kill u cus it's stupid even producing sun,usually 8k and other crap and other special conditions as well)
Objective idea: don’t let the zombies touch the ground this would only use flying zombies and in this objective blover is banned
on a dumb unrelated joke.
Zomboss in penny's pursuit when you use reinforce-mint with peanut and torchwood (only works well when you have enough sun and time to create *the hoarde* )
I'm pretty sure that some of the objectives also had an instant-loss condition in the old times.
You could actually plant on the Mold Colonies accidentaly and you could accidentally go over the Never have more than x plants limit as well.
Yes, you could just simply put a plant on a mold and straight up lose the level LOL
But it is still possible to fail the objective "Never have more than x plants" leading to the loss of a level on some circumstances, such as Witch Hazel spawning a Puff-shroom and berries from Holly Barrier and the plant limit is exceeded. Also from 1.7 to 1.8, losing lawn mowers is also an instant-loss condition.
This video is like an essay where you have all of your points explained, but haven’t reached the required word count, so you have to go into extreme detail just to pad out each paragraph. Padded out equally, so that it isn’t obvious.
PvZ footage with Hollow Knight background music somehow works perfectly
Lock and loaded it’s horrible in penny pursuit 3 chilly
Thing with flower line, if it's in the middle of a tile you can just cheese it with spikes
Will have to watch this after school, when I do I may or may not edit this to be a massive comment on everything discussed on this video
Agree with everything, didn't think 20:21 was a bug though, thought that was intentional because it only applies to levels where endangered flowers is in the middle. Still agree with the rating
The spikeweed not triggering the flower line makes sense because you plant on top of the flowers so when the zombies walk over it they walk over spikeweed instead of the flowers
Hey, you have been talking about pvz late game and how it's not a challenge, I would like to hear how would you change that
15:01
You can beat pirate seas day 22 with only spikeweed.
Its true we all have flappy heads and beady eyes South Park is true Canadian had a pretty confusing dialect, you say buddy when talking to a mutual friend you say guy when you talk to a stranger and you say friend after every couple sentences (unless you are from any of the costal islands then you switch buddy and friend in this context)
“It’s entirely POINTless and arbitrary” who’s gonna tell him
I hate endangered plants solely because of The Old Queens rematch in Eclise. Four endangered sunflowers on minecarts. IN COLUMN EIGHT. WITH BARREL ROLLERS. Holy shit that level sucked ass.
Another problem is in Reflourished, where they nerf plants in locked n' loaded levels and then don't nerf the levels alongside them... some of them are frustrating, rng based, and one is straight up impossible without powerups.
Which is the impossible level in Reflourished?
i beat that eclise level first try i dont get what your on about
Modern Day Level 16 is impossible in Reflourished without power ups or insane luck. How did they not realize that they should rebalance vanilla levels?
@@trekkinmain4974 MD16 is fine. I'm talking about BWB16 and DA18.
@@nc7718 I don't think any of the plants from either of those levels got nerfed (Sun-Shroom is the only one that comes to mind). How did you find them more difficult?
I personally enjoy the Last Stand levels, though mostly when I played the Chinese edition of the game. My favorite level to go to whenever I got a new plant just to try it out was a last stand level in Ancient Egypt because of how low consequence it meant to lose and how basic of a world/level it was compared to other worlds/levels since it was, if I remember correctly, just normals, cones, buckets, mummies, and gargs
Though I can pretty much agree for the most part on the other objectives
mold colonies + dont trample the flowers(the flowers are at the very very back.) + prospector zombie + dont plant more than 10 plants + dont lose more than 5 plants + basically every other objective + zomboss in dark ages.
the locked and loaded objective is the best thing ever for me, i hate having to spend 10 minutes to pick the last plant in the plant selection screen just to end up not even using it in the level
also each time i enter a level, i just beg for it to have the locked and loaded objective
I gotta say, some b+ tier modifiers can have some levels designed to suck [as in bwb 30] and some f tier modifiers like maybe no lawnmowers can be played properly. It all just comes down to level design [levels like ps22 final stand is likely one of these interesting concepts that makes you try different stuff to see what works and what not]
To make survive with most plants chosen more interesting try to only use the plants you get to select or only use the plants it gives you
I liked the mold colony level in the ehypt expansion levels where you only had 1 back collum and then 4 rows of mid colonies
I can appreciate a video that's specifically here to commit to a bit strongly approve 👍
I think a good way to fix produce x sun is to use the 6th row zombie to force you to kill all of the final wave's zombies.
The RE basement theme really adds to the video