Thanks for your reviews. I already can't wait to try L12 out :) For me, the old browser is/was also a mess - when a library is heavilly categorized with folders within folders (SFX libraries, Splice library etc.) and you look for a certain sound - all you get is bunch of folders that you have to open one by one just to find other subfolders inside and repeat it until you finally rech the sound you want. 🤷♂I think that Reaper's browser solves this problem quite well - after initiating a search of certain sound you get all the relevant folders at the top and all the relevant sounds from these folders shown below - without a need to folder dive.
Lots of folders within folders isn't great either. Definitely. Although then I could use the keyboard to simply drill in quite quickly. Now I feel like I need to start my own tagging system, tag everything, then save searches to get something usable. I don't use libraries like you've mentioned though. I gotta look into Reaper's browser structure. If Ableton don't give us the folders back as an option, maybe I can get inspiration for my own setup this way.
Truth…searching and showing by relevance with an enclosing folder path to the right + ability to jump to source folder and see other related can be a graceful flow as well..
The browser just takes a little time to get used to but i think its much better than before. And my o my the changes they made to midi! Absolutely amazing!
I still hate it four months later just like I did when I first encountered it. It destroys my whole browser workflow. I literally often open up Live 11 to look for a preset I like, remember the name to search for it in 12. I have massive amounts of content to search through and everything is a total mess now. I can't even find an actual Instrument Simpler preset anymore, It then also shows me drum sounds - under INSTRUMENTS. Sorry, but the browser is the worst it's ever been.
Loved this video and the details about how this all works in practice. I share some of your concerns, especially with the Browser. I'm not sure if I just need more time to get used to it, but I really miss the folders in Sounds and Plug-ins. I also can't find Drum Hits, which was a really handy way to build drum kits. In general, I like the idea of more customization and options in the Browser, but not at the expense of some of those basic folders. A giant list of devices and presets doesn't help much. I'm a little confused in the operation with some of the Generators too. I love them on a whole but sometimes it feels like I'm reaching around in a dark room. All in all, I love the update. I'm sure some of it will take some getting used to. But I do hope the Browser gets fine-tuned a little bit :) It's a good direction but at this point feels confusing and slow when I use it.
Thank you. Let's hope that since the browser changes are upsetting lots of people's workflow, we can get the folders back like we could last time with the audio folder options. And "reaching around in a dark room" is an apt description for how I feel using some of the generators as well. There's definitely a lot of good stuff in Live 12. If they listen to us beta testers, they could crease out all the things not well implemented yet, and it could be amazing.
@@sonicbloomtuts Yea, I already love it! I think if the folders were an option in the browser it would solve 90% of my issues. Ableton has a great track record for making exceptional things!
I was always ok with tabbing back and forth with the mixer. That for me is not a big deal. I’m more excited about the generative stuff and the midi editing stuff.
Yes, I got used to the tabbing as well. That's why I can't see myself turn on Tab to jump from control to control, which breaks the SV to AV and back workflow. I think I'm most exited still about Roar and the Performance Pack. Some of the MIDI editing is also really good.
I mostly agree with everything here. I was really looking forward to the generate and transform features and really hope they can be implemented in Push 3. I actually like some aspects of the new filtered browser, like I can finally get all of my drum and percussion loops in one place but it definitely needs work. For example, a new cmd + F search should be blank, I shouldn’t have to remove the tags from my previous search.
Great video. Thank you for taking the time to make it. I just got access to the beta! Oh my! The browser is complete disaster. The filters and categorization are arbitrary. The lack of foders in the plugin area is outrageous! The filtering doesn't seem to work. These file browser isuess a truly showstoppers. Sadly I can see myself leaving Ableton if the browser is not fixed.
Thank you,. I don't see them changing much in the browser anymore. What others have told me is that they did their own tagging system and are now happy with it. Means extra work though.
I think Ableton refining the browser system is an attempt to tackle option paralysis and library scrolling, and i can see how useful it can turn out. But as you mentioned, it is not very good at it right now.
Wow, some long needed features but also a lot of things that do absolutely nothing for me. It’s too easy now to make the Live gui look cluttered and overloaded. The way the mixer is integrated into arrangement view looks weird. The hot swap feature feels utterly useless and the browser…let’s not talk about that. Thanks for the video and the clear explanation. Made it simple to not feel bad that I have left Live 3 years ago.
What DAW did you Live for and why? I feel like depending on what you want to do, the choice can be quite different. For me, since I want to play live as well, getting into the workflow of two DAWs seems like too much. So Ableton Live it is.
I'm not a fan of what they've done to the browser. As you've mentioned in the video: The fact that all audio effects, samples, 3rd party vsts are not in their subfolders creates an absolute mess. Hope they at least leave in an option to switch back to the browser as we know it.
I know a good amount of people see it this way. We need to make a suggestion and up each other in Centercode. Then there's a decent chance we get the folders back as an option.
Browser seems inspired by splice, which I like a lot, but that’s partially because it works so well with the tags. So let’s see, can’t wait to try out the beta. Technically they could make the folders optional with the feedback, since that’s what the beta is there for
Pedro, you me and a crapload of other users feel this way. However the problem is more nuanced than this. I have a monster of a computer - very powerful. Sometimes I have enormous sets with tons of plug-ins including multiple instances of a certain guitar amp simulator know for being a resource hog. And no problems. Then I have sets with only 8 tracks and Ableton 11 chokes. No idea why. In other words huge things that should slow V. 11 down DON'T, and tiny sets, do.
I was worried that they may have removed folders from the browser. I agree that it looks like a big mess. The folders are so important to how I use Ableton that this may be the first time I hesitate to upgrade. This is one pattern they should not have copied from Bitwig.
It's true that it seems a big mess and folders are better. But for me the Folders in 11 didn't fit my way of working. Let's hope they will find a way after the beta
I've never really been happy with the browser, but could imagine worse, so just went with it. Tags? Pfft. Constantly working with new sounds, not the ones already played with, so tags seem like a waste of time. LOVING the MIDI changes...but it's almost too much when I really dig into them. I have so many ways of quickly generating notes and patterns, it's like having to learn anew the things already well-known...but I'll give it time and know I appreciate the options being there. There's a lot to love and thank you again for showing me more of them. I had to leave off your videos til I had the beta myself and I'm a week into it, every day. Speaking of which.... You sound well! Hugs.
Yeah, not a fan of tags either. Whenever I tried to use them I ended up abandoning them later. The MIDI stuff is growing on me. Not all of it. And with things like quantisation, we can always use the old way. I'm better, thanks. I will be starting a healing protocol over the holidays to address the underlying issue properly, which should then cascade into being able to fully heal everything. Including so called 'incurable' things. Happy holidays!
This is one of the best, unbiased videos on Live 12. The fact that many of the midi features are not available on the Push is really disappointing. I own Push 2 and I've been trying to get away from the computer and keyboard as much as I can with setting up my own costume user mode buttons. But for "standalone" Push 3 users, will they really not have access to many of these features!?!? That is wild. I always thought it was a bit irresponsible to call the Push 3 standalone. There's so much you can't do without the computer.
I haven't tested the MIDI tools on Push 3 after upgrading to standalone, but I can't imagine them not being available on the non-standalone, but the standalone.
I think your demo of the Pitch + 3 semitones without scale awareness compared to Pitch +3 scale degrees with scale awareness only sounds different because 3 scale degrees = 5 (or 4) semitones. In the approporiate comparison they should sound the same (since you have a Scale plugin downstream of it that forces the correction anyway)
It sounds different that while 3 semitones are a minor third, within a scale there are major chords, which have major thirds, so 4 semitones. The appropriate comparison is Pitch in Live 11 vs 12.
I remember ages ago people asking for plugin thumbnails and other people in the forums bullying the idea because it was impractical. As someone with mild dislexia, I love the plugin thumbnails in cubase/studio one. But who in their right mind thought that a long list with poorly placed tags was more practical? specially creatively, sometimes I just want to experiment and I have to remember somehow the string of random letters and numbers that most developers use to name their plugins, or I remember a sound that I liked but my brain only remembers the image of the plugin, but not the name. Now that I think about it, the whole ableton integration with third party plugins is a mess, still no ARA integration in this version. Is really confusing, because ableton trying to cater to pros and amateurs (the people in the forums made REALLY clear that plugin thumbnails was not a pro thing to have for some reason, but then again the forum itself is a accessibility nightmare so I can see the culture about that) but ends up catering to neither
I personally wouldn't live thumbnails, and I know that Ableton won't do it, because it messes with their UX design ideas. However, the way it is now sucks. As a suggestion, if there are sounds and presets you like, try to get a workflow in which you save them to Collections or take notes elsewhere. Or in Live 12 you could tag them.
Yeah Browser seem weird than before . Hope they can implementing Full (long ) kind panel just like newest OBS side panel . And Mixer should be in bottom area instead devices IMO
I would prefer the mixer at the bottom as well. Best if we got a choice. Don't think they'll extend the browser to the bottom unless you want to close Info, Clip/Device Views.
I wish they would've took it a step further and added in session view with the clips inside of arrangement. Even with the mixer view in arrangement I still tend to just use the mixing settings on the arrangement view track and if I wanted to edit a session view clip I would have to click tab anyway.
That'd only be confusing. The two views are separate with the clips, so why combine them. What most people wanted is to have a way to get the mixer from Session View in Arrangement View. If you want the Session View with clips and the Arrangement View, why don't you use the two window option?
"Cmd Alt 6", haha😅 This reminds me about why i love customizable and midi assignable shortcuts in Bitwig! More than the stacked view, i would have welcomed a horizontal cliplauncher in Ableton, which can be seen side by side with the Arrangement, just like in Bitwig. What i like about Ableton 12 is improved Midi Editing, and global Scale awareness. Such "basic" things can’t be valued enough! Would love it so much, if Bitwig improves those workflows, too. The similar sound hot swapping for samples is nice, however, i prefer the "originals" which Ableton is copying, XO and Atlas2, with their nice visual map of all samples, which is much more beautiful than Abletons interface. Would have loved it, if Ableton copyed such a visual galaxy map of all samples, too, instead of just the hot swapping. "I m not happy with the Browser changes", it’s funny because Bitwig users experienced something similar with the Browser "Update" from 4 to 5. After a while, one will get used to the new advantages, but they came with downgrades on specific areas. By the way: one of the main downsides of Ableton is the topic of "listening to its customers/beta testers". There’s a great reddit post which lists the most asked for features, refering to the centerpoint forum - far too many of the biggest feature wishes have been ignored for over a DECADE. The most upvoted one iirc was bounce in place in the centerpoint forum... a request which is older than a decade... so much about "listening to beta testers "
I love it when software allows me to customise shortcuts, too. Currently switching to Davinci Resolve, and setting my own shortcuts was one of the first things I did for the most important tasks. Wouldn't be too keen on a horizontal clip launcher. I also don't need a visual map of samples. I have the same thing for files in Obsidian and don't care for it. Yes, I know that Ableton doesn't listen enough. I already had that experience when working in tech support for them. Even passing on feedback from our team was seen as annoying. Even worse, telling the CEO that one of his ideas would only be confusing for beginners and make matters worse. I tried to lobby for them to fix the Looper, which still hasn't happened. Not even the big bug that can truly mess up a live performance. I wish they would finally start listening more.
It's the Twenty-Four Carat theme that comes with Live 12 at 200% brightness. If you're looking for changing how Live looks, I've got themes for free: sonicbloom.net/free-ableton-live-11-themes-mega-pack-55-themes/
Thank you for this great video👏🏼. A lot of features that was waiting. But I hope that it will not be too hard to dive between all those options, shortcuts and windows…
It's definitely a bit of a learning curve again with some shortcuts replaced with others or some no longer existing. You don't need to use all of the new features though or could introduce them step by step into your workflow. And I hope they refine the browser changes until the official release.
Do you think the master pitch transpose that you reviewed a while ago will get scale awareness? That would be useful. For that m4l device it would be easier to choose a pitch interval and then click switch to the interval, rather than scan through all the way through.
Since that is a third party device, the dev would have to implement it. I don't know how easy or difficult that is through the Live API, or how much time it would take, since the device is free.
You're absolutely right with Your comment on the Broswer changes: it is a giant mess. Where btw is the option to toggle between catagories and full list within the Audio Effects branch? It was a usefull change in Live 11, but now its gone. It would maybe no big problem if one could make own folders. But that isn't possible.
Those were replaced by tags. Other folder categories not though. It's all very inconsistent. Not to mention various bugs I haven't even addressed in the video. I had to edit it down from 35 mins, because that was simply too long.
Thanks for the video. I’m honestly a bit bothered by even the little things like how they’ve inverted the mixer. This shouldn’t take much time to get used to, but I’m a bit frustrated! The browser is a mess. I’m even considering not updating live from 11-12. I’ve been using live since version 7 and I think there was a massive shift from 8-9 which had some very welcoming changes and updates made, but also at the cost of workflow changes. I adapted over time and now Ableton 11 feels like second nature. But I’m quite concerned about 12. I’m not too excited about the new synths, nor am I kicked about many of the other updates, although, I think the new MIDI clip tools are cool and also the scalable thing. But now live‘a UI is starting to feel too crowded. There are just too many things. I can’t imagine how daunting this all must be to a new user of Live who’s just getting started. A lot of the new features could have been implemented as M4L plugins and this customisation could’ve been optional for users.
Yes, since the release of Live 9 they've made changes that completely messed up the way I was playing live with Live. In the studio it was easier to adjust for me. With the Performance Pack they've redeemed themselves in the former regard. Things seeming crowded... well, it depends on your screen size. While I record the screencast on a 32 inch screen, I use 150% zoom to make things easier to see for people watching on smaller screens. Overall, I do like Live 12, but I didn't want to gloss over all the things not so good or not even half baked. Those things could be fixed in the beta phase.
I agree with you completely it seems too crowded and messy, the zen looked of Ableton has been sacrified.... I am actually quite concerned with the direction the company has taken. And I teach Ableton for a living...
They should have used some sort of sorting algorithm, as they are using it in Waves COSMOS or XLN XO... They would sort all your sounds when you add them (or already have) and assign tags and "similar sound values" to them.
I don't know the examples you've mentioned, so I can't comment if I agree or not. I often don't like how things are sorted as my mind works differently.
@@sonicbloomtuts you should really check these out. They sort things in order of similarity. So if you want a sample that is similar to the one you have now, yet different, you just explore samples around the original one. It's like a very gradual change from sound to sound if you have a large enough sample library
The browser is what I don't like. I hope the final version of 12 will hve an option to select either the new browser or the classic browser in the settings.
Yes, or at least the option to get the folders back. In Live 11, they'd added the top folder category for audio effects. Useful for beginners, but longer to navigate. They listened to us and brought it back as a context menu option.
Great video, thanks. I was wondering if the issues with the missing folders in browser can be fixed by right clicking in the browser view and a option to enable "Group in Folders". Like from the old "issue" from Live 11 with category folders in Instruments ?
No, I'm afraid not. I think this option would be a solution for many to be okay with the rest of the browser changes. In the Live 12 beta release notes it says that they replaced the folders with tags, but they never included all, nor is it a decent replacement.
Nice dive, interesting on the browser. I feel like if they give you a way to combine text search with the preset filter tags, that would be less work than 11, given your example with bass and drift. That seems better for less folder diving for sure…however I can’t tell what they did to the user area, which would be a nightmare as nothing would be pre tagged until the user does it…I’m hoping they’ve thought of these things and have some graceful solutions that just need some deep dive…well thanks
Actually I watched your section on this again and now that I think about it…they do know what instrument, device, etc was used to create anything, so free text + the pre tagging will be pretty fast. If they can leave the folders as a pref that would be cool. I’m sure there will be some time when that makes sense too. 🙏🖤🐓
@@ItsWesSmithYo I actually love the folders. They gave me orientation. The filter is more clicking when the search was possible to do with just the keyboard. I don't consider this new browser as fast. It's much slower for me even after weeks of using it.
Thank you! Since a lot of people don't like the browser changes, there's a good chance Ableton will listen and find a solution till the official release.
the momentary switching of things looks like something I will use quite a lot. the 'mixer in arrange' I probably won't use much as I'm on 2 screens (what happens in that case, is it disabled?). I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the beta.
The mixer in AV doesn't get disabled then, no. It's like before with things like the browser that you could open in one or the other window. It depends what window is in focus, then hide or show elements as needed.
Well, knowing that the push 3 is done. They might get back to focusing on the DAW finally. Hopefully over the next year, Ableton will be a lot better than what it has been.
No, they added the track (de)activation for the first 8 tracks to F1 - F8, which also work as momentary buttons. On Mac you'll have to add the Function key (Fn) to override the Mac built-in features or turn them off in the System Settings/Preferences.
Yes, a lot of added features depend on the workflow used. If you already have the beta, try a non-western tuning and then the Stacks. The display shapes are hilarious!
When I first saw the browser, I was like, eh, it might be helpful for some things, but I’ll probably just use it the way I’m used to, cause I’ve got that down. But it looks like I won’t even be able to do that. Jesus that’s a mess
You might not be able to depending on how you use it in Live 11. Lots of complaints from people though already, so Ableton may have to provide better solutions.
@@sonicbloomtuts well and I’m hoping that because it’s still in beta, it’s possible those things will be fixed. Cause there’s a lot about the browser that seems unfinished. Like they focused on the new system with tags and such first, but they’ll reimplement the original function of the browser before it finally releases. I really hope that’s not wishful thinking hahaha
@@sonicbloomtuts yeah I'm sure it would be better on a larger screen. Although the minimalist UI of Ableton has always been appealing to me. Clutter doesn't help me with workflow.
In 11 you can right click the browser to view the folder or not … seems like the instructor had the browser set to the former way before the folders . Just a right click menu over the browser should let you change this setting.
No, that's the first thing I tried. From the Live 12 beta release notes: "Note that tags have replaced folder groups within the browser’s category labels."
Worse for sure. Mostly after 11 with all the UI changes. Literally 10+ years of having clip settings on muscle memory, now its a cluster F. From what i have seen , 12's browser is a shitshow too for us long timer users. May as well call it something else now, but not Ableton.
I heard rumours, that the folders in the browser will make a return. So at least we could use it the old way. The thing with the clip view... I'm starting to get used to the differences. I find that easier to adjust to than the browser mess.
None actually. It's the Twenty-Four Carat that comes with Live 12 at 200% Brightness. I already checked if Live 11 themes work in 12. They do, but the Scale Awareness features stay the default colour. Will provide updates of my themes when Live 12 is officially out.
I think year 2023 is “let’s *uck up browser” year. In the beginning of the year bigwig changed their browser to the same cluttered mess. Bigwig browser is so bad now I had to switch to ableton. And here we go again. I guess I know the browser changes in both daws are to implement shop directly to browser but we end users have to struggle. I’ll wait till final release and if it is still cluttered mess in browser I’ll have no choice but to move one again.🤦♂️
I didn't know Bitwig had made a similar move. I also hadn't considered that it might be to implement shop in browser. I hope not. Then in ten years it'll be ads in the browser or what? Please, no! A lot of people have complaints about the browser changes, so I'm gonna rally the other CTs to support the suggestions I'm gonna make at the weekend. "WE WANT THE FOLDERS BACK!!!" Fingers crossed!
One thing I really liked with the addition of the Arpeggiator (and Quantize) to the clip view is that you can now see the creation happening in real time instead of only using your ears in the case of the Arpeggiator, or guessing with what % you wanted to Quantize. Now you can see exactly what's happening and adjust accordingly.
That's because they had a revolutionary idea with the Session View, and now lots of people use it on stage as well. Must be something to do with envy. Btw, if you mean me, I'm not a hater. I'm an Ableton Certified Trainer just being honest about the new features. Lots of good, some truly great, others still unrefined and unfinished.
I think with the arpeggiator, it is useful because you can apply it selectively to certain notes vs the midi plugin you would need to create separate midi channels or use envelopes. Browser is much better imo but you need to ignore what Ableton have done & create your own. If you create your own categories & then save the searches into your library you can have the browser however you like. It took me a while to get my head around it but its better than having folders. People are missing the best feature of the browser & its the ability to add a category to the library. You can show hide remove whatever you want & save it in the left library panel. So to solve your issue with instruments showing too many. Create a new category & call it something like device function 2. Then within that create tags instrument, effect, midi effect. Then tag the instruments you want to see with instrument then use filters to filter what you want to see & click on the plus next to results. Name it instruments & hide the one ableton created.
Hadn't considered applying Arpeggiate to just part of clip. Good point. As for the browser... sure, I could create my own tags as well and save searches, but that's not how I used the browser or how I want to use it. I'll play around with your suggestions more. However, I'm still hoping that Ableton reconsider the browser as I know I'm by far not the only one who hates it.
@@sonicbloomtuts Give it a chance, for months I also hated the browser, everything felt like it took much longer. But after redoing it myself there is no way i could return to the old system.
@@nrosko How long did it take you? I've got all Ableton Live Packs. It sounds like too daunting a task. Plus, I already have way too little time for music. I don't want to play librarian first.
I think it's worth remembering that this is in Beta... any issues with workflow or anything with 12 really would ideally reported to Ableton, as per the Beta agreement, so they can either ignore or act on them. It ain't the final product right now.
Creating your own folder system in the library is great. And most users have adopted this approach to hack the already problematic library system. Custom folders + collections is great, and would be perfect with more collections. The low amount is just stupid. Collections/colors as smart filters are great because you can add a single file or a custom made max device folder to a collection. All we needed and asked for was more than 6 collections/colors. And instead we get this. The most important part gets the worst update. I can see it. Brainstorming session at HQ. What if we just get rid of all the folders. So users can scroll sounds till the end of time. like a Instagram feed. Yeah fun lets do that. They will love that. So users created their own folder system. Fine tuned for years and years. And then you decide this is the way to go. And just keep the collections/colorsat 6. Why would users want say 10, or 15? Must be really hard it shows a total disconnect from reality.
Thanks for your reviews. I already can't wait to try L12 out :) For me, the old browser is/was also a mess - when a library is heavilly categorized with folders within folders (SFX libraries, Splice library etc.) and you look for a certain sound - all you get is bunch of folders that you have to open one by one just to find other subfolders inside and repeat it until you finally rech the sound you want. 🤷♂I think that Reaper's browser solves this problem quite well - after initiating a search of certain sound you get all the relevant folders at the top and all the relevant sounds from these folders shown below - without a need to folder dive.
Lots of folders within folders isn't great either. Definitely. Although then I could use the keyboard to simply drill in quite quickly. Now I feel like I need to start my own tagging system, tag everything, then save searches to get something usable. I don't use libraries like you've mentioned though. I gotta look into Reaper's browser structure. If Ableton don't give us the folders back as an option, maybe I can get inspiration for my own setup this way.
Truth…searching and showing by relevance with an enclosing folder path to the right + ability to jump to source folder and see other related can be a graceful flow as well..
The browser just takes a little time to get used to but i think its much better than before. And my o my the changes they made to midi! Absolutely amazing!
I still hate it four months later just like I did when I first encountered it. It destroys my whole browser workflow. I literally often open up Live 11 to look for a preset I like, remember the name to search for it in 12. I have massive amounts of content to search through and everything is a total mess now. I can't even find an actual Instrument Simpler preset anymore, It then also shows me drum sounds - under INSTRUMENTS. Sorry, but the browser is the worst it's ever been.
Fantastic video. Couldn't agree more on all points. Thank you.
You're welcome.
Loved this video and the details about how this all works in practice. I share some of your concerns, especially with the Browser. I'm not sure if I just need more time to get used to it, but I really miss the folders in Sounds and Plug-ins. I also can't find Drum Hits, which was a really handy way to build drum kits. In general, I like the idea of more customization and options in the Browser, but not at the expense of some of those basic folders. A giant list of devices and presets doesn't help much.
I'm a little confused in the operation with some of the Generators too. I love them on a whole but sometimes it feels like I'm reaching around in a dark room.
All in all, I love the update. I'm sure some of it will take some getting used to. But I do hope the Browser gets fine-tuned a little bit :) It's a good direction but at this point feels confusing and slow when I use it.
Thank you. Let's hope that since the browser changes are upsetting lots of people's workflow, we can get the folders back like we could last time with the audio folder options. And "reaching around in a dark room" is an apt description for how I feel using some of the generators as well. There's definitely a lot of good stuff in Live 12. If they listen to us beta testers, they could crease out all the things not well implemented yet, and it could be amazing.
@@sonicbloomtuts Yea, I already love it! I think if the folders were an option in the browser it would solve 90% of my issues. Ableton has a great track record for making exceptional things!
I was always ok with tabbing back and forth with the mixer. That for me is not a big deal. I’m more excited about the generative stuff and the midi editing stuff.
Yes, I got used to the tabbing as well. That's why I can't see myself turn on Tab to jump from control to control, which breaks the SV to AV and back workflow.
I think I'm most exited still about Roar and the Performance Pack. Some of the MIDI editing is also really good.
@@sonicbloomtuts yeah the midi editing on FL Studio level good
@@bjamminsincebirth3494 I haven't used FL Studio since it was called Fruity Loops, so I wouldn't know.
Damn. They really f ed up the browser 😂😂 didn’t notice this in any other videos I watched before. You are so right with what you’re saying!
Lots of complaints from others during the beta phase, so there's hope they listen and fix this.
I mostly agree with everything here. I was really looking forward to the generate and transform features and really hope they can be implemented in Push 3. I actually like some aspects of the new filtered browser, like I can finally get all of my drum and percussion loops in one place but it definitely needs work. For example, a new cmd + F search should be blank, I shouldn’t have to remove the tags from my previous search.
I hadn't even checked if a new search resets the filter. Thanks for the input.
Great video. Thank you for taking the time to make it. I just got access to the beta! Oh my! The browser is complete disaster. The filters and categorization are arbitrary. The lack of foders in the plugin area is outrageous! The filtering doesn't seem to work.
These file browser isuess a truly showstoppers. Sadly I can see myself leaving Ableton if the browser is not fixed.
Thank you,. I don't see them changing much in the browser anymore. What others have told me is that they did their own tagging system and are now happy with it. Means extra work though.
I think Ableton refining the browser system is an attempt to tackle option paralysis and library scrolling, and i can see how useful it can turn out. But as you mentioned, it is not very good at it right now.
You are absolutely right with the messy Browser in Ableton 12. For me a fact to not upgrade to Ableton 12.
Since a lot of people have already complained about it, and it's still the beta phase, they might well change it for the better again.
Wow, some long needed features but also a lot of things that do absolutely nothing for me. It’s too easy now to make the Live gui look cluttered and overloaded. The way the mixer is integrated into arrangement view looks weird. The hot swap feature feels utterly useless and the browser…let’s not talk about that. Thanks for the video and the clear explanation. Made it simple to not feel bad that I have left Live 3 years ago.
What DAW did you Live for and why? I feel like depending on what you want to do, the choice can be quite different. For me, since I want to play live as well, getting into the workflow of two DAWs seems like too much. So Ableton Live it is.
Did you move to Bitwig?
I'm not a fan of what they've done to the browser. As you've mentioned in the video: The fact that all audio effects, samples, 3rd party vsts are not in their subfolders creates an absolute mess. Hope they at least leave in an option to switch back to the browser as we know it.
I know a good amount of people see it this way. We need to make a suggestion and up each other in Centercode. Then there's a decent chance we get the folders back as an option.
The browser is now a total mess... I will use Live 11 for now and hope they made a way of seeing the browser as the old one
Browser seems inspired by splice, which I like a lot, but that’s partially because it works so well with the tags. So let’s see, can’t wait to try out the beta. Technically they could make the folders optional with the feedback, since that’s what the beta is there for
I'm not using Splice, so that's an interesting perspective. Yes, I hope they listen to us beta testers. Last time with audio top folders, they did.
What Ableton should focus on is CPU performance, the resources used to run this Daw is been a joke for years!
I would appreciate that as well, but that can't be sold as a new feature...
Pedro, you me and a crapload of other users feel this way. However the problem is more nuanced than this.
I have a monster of a computer - very powerful. Sometimes I have enormous sets with tons of plug-ins including multiple instances of a certain guitar amp simulator know for being a resource hog. And no problems. Then I have sets with only 8 tracks and Ableton 11 chokes. No idea why. In other words huge things that should slow V. 11 down DON'T, and tiny sets, do.
I was worried that they may have removed folders from the browser. I agree that it looks like a big mess. The folders are so important to how I use Ableton that this may be the first time I hesitate to upgrade. This is one pattern they should not have copied from Bitwig.
It's still the beta phase, so I hope they'll listen to our concerns and improve things.
It's true that it seems a big mess and folders are better. But for me the Folders in 11 didn't fit my way of working. Let's hope they will find a way after the beta
I've never really been happy with the browser, but could imagine worse, so just went with it. Tags? Pfft. Constantly working with new sounds, not the ones already played with, so tags seem like a waste of time. LOVING the MIDI changes...but it's almost too much when I really dig into them. I have so many ways of quickly generating notes and patterns, it's like having to learn anew the things already well-known...but I'll give it time and know I appreciate the options being there. There's a lot to love and thank you again for showing me more of them. I had to leave off your videos til I had the beta myself and I'm a week into it, every day. Speaking of which.... You sound well! Hugs.
Yeah, not a fan of tags either. Whenever I tried to use them I ended up abandoning them later. The MIDI stuff is growing on me. Not all of it. And with things like quantisation, we can always use the old way.
I'm better, thanks. I will be starting a healing protocol over the holidays to address the underlying issue properly, which should then cascade into being able to fully heal everything. Including so called 'incurable' things. Happy holidays!
This is one of the best, unbiased videos on Live 12. The fact that many of the midi features are not available on the Push is really disappointing. I own Push 2 and I've been trying to get away from the computer and keyboard as much as I can with setting up my own costume user mode buttons. But for "standalone" Push 3 users, will they really not have access to many of these features!?!? That is wild. I always thought it was a bit irresponsible to call the Push 3 standalone. There's so much you can't do without the computer.
I haven't tested the MIDI tools on Push 3 after upgrading to standalone, but I can't imagine them not being available on the non-standalone, but the standalone.
@@sonicbloomtuts maybe a misheard but didn't you say those features won't be available on the Push?
I think your demo of the Pitch + 3 semitones without scale awareness compared to Pitch +3 scale degrees with scale awareness only sounds different because 3 scale degrees = 5 (or 4) semitones. In the approporiate comparison they should sound the same (since you have a Scale plugin downstream of it that forces the correction anyway)
It sounds different that while 3 semitones are a minor third, within a scale there are major chords, which have major thirds, so 4 semitones. The appropriate comparison is Pitch in Live 11 vs 12.
I remember ages ago people asking for plugin thumbnails and other people in the forums bullying the idea because it was impractical. As someone with mild dislexia, I love the plugin thumbnails in cubase/studio one. But who in their right mind thought that a long list with poorly placed tags was more practical? specially creatively, sometimes I just want to experiment and I have to remember somehow the string of random letters and numbers that most developers use to name their plugins, or I remember a sound that I liked but my brain only remembers the image of the plugin, but not the name. Now that I think about it, the whole ableton integration with third party plugins is a mess, still no ARA integration in this version. Is really confusing, because ableton trying to cater to pros and amateurs (the people in the forums made REALLY clear that plugin thumbnails was not a pro thing to have for some reason, but then again the forum itself is a accessibility nightmare so I can see the culture about that) but ends up catering to neither
I personally wouldn't live thumbnails, and I know that Ableton won't do it, because it messes with their UX design ideas. However, the way it is now sucks.
As a suggestion, if there are sounds and presets you like, try to get a workflow in which you save them to Collections or take notes elsewhere. Or in Live 12 you could tag them.
Yeah Browser seem weird than before . Hope they can implementing Full (long ) kind panel just like newest OBS side panel . And Mixer should be in bottom area instead devices IMO
I would prefer the mixer at the bottom as well. Best if we got a choice. Don't think they'll extend the browser to the bottom unless you want to close Info, Clip/Device Views.
I hope they will bring back folders, since its in beta stage only, there is hope they will fix some issues before official release.
Yes, I hope so too. Lots of people don't like it, so there's a chance.
I wish they would've took it a step further and added in session view with the clips inside of arrangement. Even with the mixer view in arrangement I still tend to just use the mixing settings on the arrangement view track and if I wanted to edit a session view clip I would have to click tab anyway.
That'd only be confusing. The two views are separate with the clips, so why combine them. What most people wanted is to have a way to get the mixer from Session View in Arrangement View. If you want the Session View with clips and the Arrangement View, why don't you use the two window option?
"Cmd Alt 6", haha😅 This reminds me about why i love customizable and midi assignable shortcuts in Bitwig! More than the stacked view, i would have welcomed a horizontal cliplauncher in Ableton, which can be seen side by side with the Arrangement, just like in Bitwig. What i like about Ableton 12 is improved Midi Editing, and global Scale awareness. Such "basic" things can’t be valued enough! Would love it so much, if Bitwig improves those workflows, too. The similar sound hot swapping for samples is nice, however, i prefer the "originals" which Ableton is copying, XO and Atlas2, with their nice visual map of all samples, which is much more beautiful than Abletons interface. Would have loved it, if Ableton copyed such a visual galaxy map of all samples, too, instead of just the hot swapping. "I m not happy with the Browser changes", it’s funny because Bitwig users experienced something similar with the Browser "Update" from 4 to 5. After a while, one will get used to the new advantages, but they came with downgrades on specific areas.
By the way: one of the main downsides of Ableton is the topic of "listening to its customers/beta testers". There’s a great reddit post which lists the most asked for features, refering to the centerpoint forum - far too many of the biggest feature wishes have been ignored for over a DECADE. The most upvoted one iirc was bounce in place in the centerpoint forum... a request which is older than a decade... so much about "listening to beta testers "
I love it when software allows me to customise shortcuts, too. Currently switching to Davinci Resolve, and setting my own shortcuts was one of the first things I did for the most important tasks.
Wouldn't be too keen on a horizontal clip launcher. I also don't need a visual map of samples. I have the same thing for files in Obsidian and don't care for it.
Yes, I know that Ableton doesn't listen enough. I already had that experience when working in tech support for them. Even passing on feedback from our team was seen as annoying. Even worse, telling the CEO that one of his ideas would only be confusing for beginners and make matters worse. I tried to lobby for them to fix the Looper, which still hasn't happened. Not even the big bug that can truly mess up a live performance. I wish they would finally start listening more.
Damn, no folders is a nightmare........
Yep.
Thanks for the video! Can you teach me about the display setting? I can't quite make the color like yours. Is it because it is 12?
It's the Twenty-Four Carat theme that comes with Live 12 at 200% brightness. If you're looking for changing how Live looks, I've got themes for free: sonicbloom.net/free-ableton-live-11-themes-mega-pack-55-themes/
@@sonicbloomtuts thats awesome! Thanks!
Thank you for this great video👏🏼. A lot of features that was waiting. But I hope that it will not be too hard to dive between all those options, shortcuts and windows…
It's definitely a bit of a learning curve again with some shortcuts replaced with others or some no longer existing. You don't need to use all of the new features though or could introduce them step by step into your workflow. And I hope they refine the browser changes until the official release.
Hopefully they take their time and do some small refinements before actually release
It certainly looks like they will at least in some areas. We'll see in the coming months.
Make sure to suggest Ableton some improvements. All valid concerns.
Awesome video BTW. Subscribed!
Yes, I definitely will. Also reporting some bugs. Planned for the weekend as I have too little time until then
Do you think the master pitch transpose that you reviewed a while ago will get scale awareness? That would be useful. For that m4l device it would be easier to choose a pitch interval and then click switch to the interval, rather than scan through all the way through.
Since that is a third party device, the dev would have to implement it. I don't know how easy or difficult that is through the Live API, or how much time it would take, since the device is free.
You're absolutely right with Your comment on the Broswer changes: it is a giant mess. Where btw is the option to toggle between catagories and full list within the Audio Effects branch? It was a usefull change in Live 11, but now its gone. It would maybe no big problem if one could make own folders. But that isn't possible.
Those were replaced by tags. Other folder categories not though. It's all very inconsistent. Not to mention various bugs I haven't even addressed in the video. I had to edit it down from 35 mins, because that was simply too long.
Thanks for the video.
I’m honestly a bit bothered by even the little things like how they’ve inverted the mixer. This shouldn’t take much time to get used to, but I’m a bit frustrated!
The browser is a mess. I’m even considering not updating live from 11-12. I’ve been using live since version 7 and I think there was a massive shift from 8-9 which had some very welcoming changes and updates made, but also at the cost of workflow changes. I adapted over time and now Ableton 11 feels like second nature. But I’m quite concerned about 12. I’m not too excited about the new synths, nor am I kicked about many of the other updates, although, I think the new MIDI clip tools are cool and also the scalable thing. But now live‘a UI is starting to feel too crowded. There are just too many things. I can’t imagine how daunting this all must be to a new user of Live who’s just getting started. A lot of the new features could have been implemented as M4L plugins and this customisation could’ve been optional for users.
Yes, since the release of Live 9 they've made changes that completely messed up the way I was playing live with Live. In the studio it was easier to adjust for me. With the Performance Pack they've redeemed themselves in the former regard.
Things seeming crowded... well, it depends on your screen size. While I record the screencast on a 32 inch screen, I use 150% zoom to make things easier to see for people watching on smaller screens. Overall, I do like Live 12, but I didn't want to gloss over all the things not so good or not even half baked. Those things could be fixed in the beta phase.
I agree with you completely it seems too crowded and messy, the zen looked of Ableton has been sacrified.... I am actually quite concerned with the direction the company has taken. And I teach Ableton for a living...
They should have used some sort of sorting algorithm, as they are using it in Waves COSMOS or XLN XO...
They would sort all your sounds when you add them (or already have) and assign tags and "similar sound values" to them.
I don't know the examples you've mentioned, so I can't comment if I agree or not. I often don't like how things are sorted as my mind works differently.
@@sonicbloomtuts you should really check these out. They sort things in order of similarity. So if you want a sample that is similar to the one you have now, yet different, you just explore samples around the original one. It's like a very gradual change from sound to sound if you have a large enough sample library
The browser is what I don't like. I hope the final version of 12 will hve an option to select either the new browser or the classic browser in the settings.
Yes, or at least the option to get the folders back. In Live 11, they'd added the top folder category for audio effects. Useful for beginners, but longer to navigate. They listened to us and brought it back as a context menu option.
Great video, thanks. I was wondering if the issues with the missing folders in browser can be fixed by right clicking in the browser view and a option to enable "Group in Folders". Like from the old "issue" from Live 11 with category folders in Instruments ?
No, I'm afraid not. I think this option would be a solution for many to be okay with the rest of the browser changes. In the Live 12 beta release notes it says that they replaced the folders with tags, but they never included all, nor is it a decent replacement.
Nice dive, interesting on the browser. I feel like if they give you a way to combine text search with the preset filter tags, that would be less work than 11, given your example with bass and drift. That seems better for less folder diving for sure…however I can’t tell what they did to the user area, which would be a nightmare as nothing would be pre tagged until the user does it…I’m hoping they’ve thought of these things and have some graceful solutions that just need some deep dive…well thanks
Actually I watched your section on this again and now that I think about it…they do know what instrument, device, etc was used to create anything, so free text + the pre tagging will be pretty fast. If they can leave the folders as a pref that would be cool. I’m sure there will be some time when that makes sense too. 🙏🖤🐓
@@ItsWesSmithYo I actually love the folders. They gave me orientation. The filter is more clicking when the search was possible to do with just the keyboard. I don't consider this new browser as fast. It's much slower for me even after weeks of using it.
all i want the browser to do is to show all samples without folders. how hard is it to make that happen!
I think this may be easier now, but I'd have to check to confirm.
Nice one Madeline. Yes the browser is a total mess. I’ll pass that onto a couple of developers. Love the sound swaps features though
Thank you! Since a lot of people don't like the browser changes, there's a good chance Ableton will listen and find a solution till the official release.
the momentary switching of things looks like something I will use quite a lot. the 'mixer in arrange' I probably won't use much as I'm on 2 screens (what happens in that case, is it disabled?). I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the beta.
The mixer in AV doesn't get disabled then, no. It's like before with things like the browser that you could open in one or the other window. It depends what window is in focus, then hide or show elements as needed.
Well, knowing that the push 3 is done. They might get back to focusing on the DAW finally. Hopefully over the next year, Ableton will be a lot better than what it has been.
Fingers crossed! Although from what I hear, Push 3 standalone needs more love as well to work very well.
great video. what is the theme used ?
Thank you. It's the Twenty-Four Carat that comes with Live 12 at 200% brightness.
@@sonicbloomtuts thank you 🙏🏾
Does Shift + D work for deactivate track? So far I've had to use KMidi do to Solo and Deactivate with the keyboard... hopefully they added this?
No, they added the track (de)activation for the first 8 tracks to F1 - F8, which also work as momentary buttons. On Mac you'll have to add the Function key (Fn) to override the Mac built-in features or turn them off in the System Settings/Preferences.
@@sonicbloomtutsthank you. Such a shame. Deactivate is key for me, hopefully Kmidi still works in 12. Thanks for your time
I don’t work in session view much so the clip thing isn’t my vibe. That chord generator is a little confusing.
Yes, a lot of added features depend on the workflow used. If you already have the beta, try a non-western tuning and then the Stacks. The display shapes are hilarious!
Thank you for this!
You're very welcome.
When I first saw the browser, I was like, eh, it might be helpful for some things, but I’ll probably just use it the way I’m used to, cause I’ve got that down. But it looks like I won’t even be able to do that. Jesus that’s a mess
You might not be able to depending on how you use it in Live 11. Lots of complaints from people though already, so Ableton may have to provide better solutions.
@@sonicbloomtuts well and I’m hoping that because it’s still in beta, it’s possible those things will be fixed. Cause there’s a lot about the browser that seems unfinished. Like they focused on the new system with tags and such first, but they’ll reimplement the original function of the browser before it finally releases. I really hope that’s not wishful thinking hahaha
@@Randuski No, I think there's a decent chance.
The workspace looks so messy with clip/device view and mixer views, reminds me of fl studio
Interesting. You're not the first to mention this. It's okay on a big screen. While I have one, I use 150% zoom to record the screencasts.
@@sonicbloomtuts yeah I'm sure it would be better on a larger screen. Although the minimalist UI of Ableton has always been appealing to me. Clutter doesn't help me with workflow.
In 11 you can right click the browser to view the folder or not … seems like the instructor had the browser set to the former way before the folders .
Just a right click menu over the browser should let you change this setting.
No, that's the first thing I tried.
From the Live 12 beta release notes:
"Note that tags have replaced folder groups within the browser’s category labels."
All these years of using Ctrl+Alt+L are gunna take some time to get past. Atleast I can do it with one hand now
Definitely some things that still feel weird to me now, because the muscle memory is so strong.
@5:00, delete to reset value is not new to Live 12
You're right. Oddly enough it's listed as a new feature in the Live 12 Beta release notes and it had me confused.
Worse for sure. Mostly after 11 with all the UI changes. Literally 10+ years of having clip settings on muscle memory, now its a cluster F. From what i have seen , 12's browser is a shitshow too for us long timer users. May as well call it something else now, but not Ableton.
I heard rumours, that the folders in the browser will make a return. So at least we could use it the old way. The thing with the clip view... I'm starting to get used to the differences. I find that easier to adjust to than the browser mess.
Separate topic....which of your themes are you using in this video?
None actually. It's the Twenty-Four Carat that comes with Live 12 at 200% Brightness. I already checked if Live 11 themes work in 12. They do, but the Scale Awareness features stay the default colour. Will provide updates of my themes when Live 12 is officially out.
im not upgrading because of that browser update. its horrendous
It does suck. There's some hope as there are changes done in the beta... maybe with time it'll be good and useful.
Why a button for sample rate ???
I don't know what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?
I think year 2023 is “let’s *uck up browser” year. In the beginning of the year bigwig changed their browser to the same cluttered mess. Bigwig browser is so bad now I had to switch to ableton. And here we go again.
I guess I know the browser changes in both daws are to implement shop directly to browser but we end users have to struggle.
I’ll wait till final release and if it is still cluttered mess in browser I’ll have no choice but to move one again.🤦♂️
I didn't know Bitwig had made a similar move. I also hadn't considered that it might be to implement shop in browser. I hope not. Then in ten years it'll be ads in the browser or what? Please, no!
A lot of people have complaints about the browser changes, so I'm gonna rally the other CTs to support the suggestions I'm gonna make at the weekend. "WE WANT THE FOLDERS BACK!!!" Fingers crossed!
One thing I really liked with the addition of the Arpeggiator (and Quantize) to the clip view is that you can now see the creation happening in real time instead of only using your ears in the case of the Arpeggiator, or guessing with what % you wanted to Quantize. Now you can see exactly what's happening and adjust accordingly.
Yes, that makes total sense. That's why I think these features are good for beginners.
Ableton has so many haters never hear of such a daw with some much hate
That's because they had a revolutionary idea with the Session View, and now lots of people use it on stage as well. Must be something to do with envy. Btw, if you mean me, I'm not a hater. I'm an Ableton Certified Trainer just being honest about the new features. Lots of good, some truly great, others still unrefined and unfinished.
The browser just looks unfinished to me. Lets hope they never intended to release it like that.
Yes, or at least listen to our complaints.
I think with the arpeggiator, it is useful because you can apply it selectively to certain notes vs the midi plugin you would need to create separate midi channels or use envelopes. Browser is much better imo but you need to ignore what Ableton have done & create your own. If you create your own categories & then save the searches into your library you can have the browser however you like. It took me a while to get my head around it but its better than having folders. People are missing the best feature of the browser & its the ability to add a category to the library. You can show hide remove whatever you want & save it in the left library panel. So to solve your issue with instruments showing too many. Create a new category & call it something like device function 2. Then within that create tags instrument, effect, midi effect. Then tag the instruments you want to see with instrument then use filters to filter what you want to see & click on the plus next to results. Name it instruments & hide the one ableton created.
Hadn't considered applying Arpeggiate to just part of clip. Good point.
As for the browser... sure, I could create my own tags as well and save searches, but that's not how I used the browser or how I want to use it. I'll play around with your suggestions more. However, I'm still hoping that Ableton reconsider the browser as I know I'm by far not the only one who hates it.
@@sonicbloomtuts Give it a chance, for months I also hated the browser, everything felt like it took much longer. But after redoing it myself there is no way i could return to the old system.
@@nrosko How long did it take you? I've got all Ableton Live Packs. It sounds like too daunting a task. Plus, I already have way too little time for music. I don't want to play librarian first.
I think it's worth remembering that this is in Beta... any issues with workflow or anything with 12 really would ideally reported to Ableton, as per the Beta agreement, so they can either ignore or act on them. It ain't the final product right now.
Absolutely. I will be reporting bugs and making suggestions over the next few days and weeks.
Creating your own folder system in the library is great. And most users have adopted this approach to hack the already problematic library system.
Custom folders + collections is great, and would be perfect with more collections. The low amount is just stupid.
Collections/colors as smart filters are great because you can add a single file or a custom made max device folder to a collection.
All we needed and asked for was more than 6 collections/colors. And instead we get this. The most important part gets the worst update.
I can see it. Brainstorming session at HQ.
What if we just get rid of all the folders. So users can scroll sounds till the end of time. like a Instagram feed. Yeah fun lets do that. They will love that.
So users created their own folder system. Fine tuned for years and years. And then you decide this is the way to go.
And just keep the collections/colorsat 6. Why would users want say 10, or 15? Must be really hard
it shows a total disconnect from reality.
I wonder if they considered various use cases or did some early in house testing with users at all. Seems like no.
sorry can't watch it, ads
Huh?
Wow...UI still looks awful....well on to the next...
That seems a matter of taste. I prefer the UI over other DAWs, tbh.
Not just better. Way better.
Let me guess. You just came here to comment without watching the video. Anyway, very much disagree.