6 Answers to Frequent Comments... #1- The screws I'm using in this video are #9 x 3” PowerPro interior screws. #2-I'm using screws for framing interior partitions. I am not advocating the use of screws for structural framing. Nails have more shear strength, and I used nails when framing this house addition. This video is about nothing more than a simple how-to technique for easily and accurately toenailing studs. #3-As mentioned early in this video, this same technique works for toenailing with nails. #4- The interior walls in this video can not be nailed together on the deck, then tipped up into position against a drywalled ceiling and still fit tightly. Thus, they are being built in place. #5-Yes, screws are more expensive than nails. No doubt about it. #6-Yes, screws are more time consuming to use than a nail gun, and professional framers do not use screws. But professional remodelers (which was my profession for nearly 25 years) do use them. They are a satisfying and valid option for framing walls in place. Thanks for watching this video. 👍❤
It’s sad for me to realize that there aren’t any carpenters anymore that know how to use a hammer. There really isn’t anything that is more efficient and cost effective than a combination of hand drives and a good framing gun. To me, screws are for the inexperienced, Expensive and time consuming. For toe nailing, put the toe of your boot against the stud and nail, or in your case, screw the opposite side
@Volkan I think so. There was a concern at one time that pressure treated chemicals may corrode steel fasteners, unless galvanized, but I've been told that is no longer an issue.
😂 Kind of true. It's an addition on my house that I started 3 years ago. The outside is done. The inside is still getting done. Building with no debt, while working full time. Should be all done next year. Or the year after. 👍
@@ryankojabashian9599 I know what u mean but obviously uve got a framing gun diys probably won’t have one so its gonna help them do it right if somewhat slowly but that said it is a great way of getting twists out of the studs when fitting I don’t know what the quality of studding is like in the states but in the uk it’s shocking trying to get straight true timber is almost impossible nowadays with all this quick grown gear that’s on the market nowadays
Have you thought about how far your wall has to rack before the screws break and the nails bend? Do you imagine you still have a worthwhile structure with that much deformation?
How do you toenail when you can only access one side of the board? Repairing termite damage and leaving the sheathing on so only one side of header exposed.
Drill shank-diameter clearance holes at an angle through the first piece of wood for your fasteners. Position the wood back a little from where you want it, so that it will be right where you want it with a little sideways pressure from the toenail.
I am a homeowner with a day job who does not do anything construction related for a living. That being said I am working on framing out my basement and Bought this ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHQsUrwNr5GQrnx9V4xDdUr56qxwuiBHt gun. I have done a few walls already, have probably shot a couple hundred nails through this thing and have yet to have a misfire. It works awesome, good depth on every nail if you have your compressor set right. My literal only complaint is that it is a bit heavy and my arm can get a little tired especially whrn I am nailing at odd angles. That being said I am super happy with it and would buy it again. Hoping the old girl allows me to get my whole basement finished out!
Good tip. You can also lay a 2x4 cut 14 1/2" against your previous stud so that it is 16'' on centre and repeat the process using no screws over and over. Or whatever your desired spacing happens to be. Just make sure you write on it so you don't grab the wrong piece of 2x4 lol.
I bet he's go his ring finger pressed against the bottom of the board so the pencil can't move. Once he indexed off his knuckle he just locked it in. It's a good idea to measure various parts of your body, like thumb joint, hand width, wrist to elbow, etc. so you always got a ruler on you.
He measured a joint on his thumb, and uses that as a guide. He implied so. I use bits of my hands that way all the time. Measure a few bits, then you have a ruler you hopefully will never lose.
I discovered this very technique on my own (out of necessity) but more recently after reading old carpentry books I discovered that you can do the same thing with a flat head nail - just lie 2 flat head nails with the head on the line (tips away from the new stud) and give each a tap with the hammer so the head penetrates the timber - then you can push the new stud up against the nail heads and toe nail from the other side. It's easy to lift the nails out with you fingers. Works with nailer or hammer.
Instead of screwing 2 screws to hold the studs in place before putting toe screws in, I pre cut a 14 1/2” and a 13 3/4” 2x4 block and use them as reusable spacers. The first space I use 13 3/4” then the rest 14 1/2” block. I put the block in place put the stud against it, toe screw, remove then place in on the other side and repeat. I feel it’s faster this way and I don’t need to level all my studs just the first one.
@@mdgrech because normally drywall edge is on stud center, but is butted on the edge against a wall or corner when you start. It insures that when you start the drywall from the corner or butt against another wall you will be on center in subsequent studs.
I framed houses more than forty years ago and we just jammed our boot against the base of the stud and drove the nails in from the other side. Very natural and very fast. No way they would let us take the time to be so accurate in those days. I would devise a quick-release clamp to go on the plate if I were using screws today but my construction days are long over. Nice video, you explained and illustrated well. I enjoyed it.
Yeah I do the same thing, though there are sometimes tight circumstances where neither is possible like when you are about 19" away from an end stud and you need a spare installed at 16". No room for my fat foot or all the screws and nails put in and taken out. This is where you nail a 3" piece of scrap to the bottom right next to the line and that is your brace. Sometimes it doesn't survive 2 nails plus the pressure, but that's okay because it's just a temporary brace. I mean, all this is studwork, not cabinetry. I've never even thought about being off the width of a line as a problem.
If you've ever followed production framers you'll know that they don't care if a stud is off ¼" or if the wood splits. "Let the drywallers worry about it." The drywallers really don't care either. And when that stud is secured by drywall or OSB on both sides it's not going anywhere no matter how split it is. In 25 years I've never seen my framers secure studs with screws, I, however, use 'em all the time because I'm too OCD and too chicken to use my nailer on the occasional pick-up framing that requires serious precision.
@@FLaDave351 getting compressor and line from van… 60 seconds. Powering it on and letting it build pressure… 60 seconds. Loading nails… as much time as it takes to put a screw on the tip of a bit. Driving a nail… orders of magnitude faster than driving a screw. So when you need more than a dozen fasteners, yes nails will be faster, and less expensive per unit, and because they’re a bit more ductile, they’re more amenable to gentle manipulation with a hammer after they’re in wood if you need to adjust the workpiece afterwards. And if, like me, you’ve made the switch to cordless nailers, you’ve saved even more time and eliminated much of the hassle. This is great instruction for DIYers who don’t want to invest in nailers, or for say plumbers and electricians who want to learn how to move a stud without the help of a framer and his tools, but this is indeed a very slow, and expensive method for a production framer.
@@FLaDave351 Trust me, a good gun won’t jam often, and even the best framers in the 80’s and 90’s switched to nailers for a reason… clearly you’ve never spent time in the trade. You’ll spend more time trying to “get it perfect”, the screw slipping off of your impact, the wood splitting, etc that you could have framed the whole wall and nailed it in place with a nailer before you’re done putting in the code required 3+ toenail screws successfully in place.
@@edwardsmith3062 see my comment. Clearly DIY’ers think there smarter than people who can paint an entire room in 30 minutes without taping or using dropcloths, or can frame and set an entire wall in 5 minutes… 🙄🙄
I think tips like this are for guys like me who enjoy learning and trying different projects. Now I know I can tackle a small framing job with the tools I own. Thank you
Never use screws for rough framing especially on exterior walls or trusses. Nails have 10x more shear strength and can bend/flex without breaking. 15+ years trade experience here, 5 years being nothing but rough end carpentry.
Really? There's nothing wrong with using screws for framing if that's what your comfortable with and they're installed properly. This wall and pretty much all of rough framing is under compression not tension so shear is not an issue. The only time shear matters in framing is when using steel hangers and you must always use hangers nails which is a requirement in the building code, inspectors could care less if you use nails or screws in framing. Also it's not ten times more, 3 or 4 times more tops is more like it with collated nails, a bit more with twist shank hand bangers.
@@eutimiochavez415 you are wrong, screws more expensive, and slower for a professional. Set it, 2 whacks with my Estwing. Off line? Gentle tap, perfect. Guy wouldn't last a day on a real job . 40 year carpenter.
@@richardking3967 I was 37 years on the job and now retired for 12 and I wasn't commenting on what professionals use, I stated you use what your comfortable with and that screws pass inspection, never talked about cost. Half of my career was banging nails and when cordless drills became available I with just about everyone else used screws where they were better suited, just like using a palm nailer on joist hangers. People use screws cause they suck at hammering, didn't say I was one of them.
I spent 94 years framing houses and this guy wouldn’t last eight seconds. I’m kidding. I find all these “years on the job” posts so entertaining. I’m a diyer and currently framing my basement. If I have to build the wall in place I’m using screws. I like their accuracy, superior pull out, and reset ability if needed.
I just shoot the studs in place using a battery operated trim gun, Then follow up with the screws, it is so much faster! You should predrill with a countersink bit, it's the taper in the head of the screw that splits the wood!
Thank you, very informative. I have to add a few studs in a shower area and this will let me get them squared up nicely. Good video, showing all the important steps. I also can't help but wonder why "professional framers" are watching your video and then commenting negatively? It seems to be geared for lowly DIY'ers like me. Well done.
Some say he’s still framing interior walls. Stop the madness. You would be better off cutting 2x4s and putting them between the studs this way you can nail you baseboards easier.
Blocking between studs at the bottom of the wall is something I've done at times and in different situations, when it made sense to do it. Like everything else, including toenailing with screws instead of nails, there are times and places where it make more sense to apply one option instead of another. By the way, I'll be installing 1x8 pine with a base cap for baseboards in this addition... and using trim screws to attach the 1x8. 😁
Framing a house with screws will fail inspection as far as I know. Check your local building code. I suspect it has do with expansion, settling as well seasonal environmental factors. Screws brake were as nails twist and bend. If you've ever dismantled a wooden structure fastened with screws you will find a high percentage of them to be broken, were as broken nails are rarely encountered.
This has been true for many years, however now there are structural screws available from manufacturers like GRX and Simpson which are rated for framing and structural use. Have used them plenty of times for framing in multiple states now, they are allowable by most building codes these days, but it never hurts to check.
This is perfect! I’m new to DIY and just have a very small area to frame out. This has made me much less anxious about the toenail process. And I already have all the tools and screws I need.
I'll be danged. I am 53 years old, and you just made me measure my fingertips. I have an inch in my pointer, and 1 1/4 inch on my F you finger. I have been carrying these little measuring sticks around with me since the day I reached full growth, and I never knew it. NICE! This makes me ponder, though. Do Canadians have metric fingers?
That seems very slow and fiddly. I use a 4 x 2 block (about 10" long) with 2 nails / screws punched thru so about 5mm (3/16") of point is poking out, lay that on the bottom plate against the mark, hit it once with a hammer and then stand the stud against that then nail gun it. It's really accurate and really quick, and just grabbing a screw with your hammer claw lifts the block out to move on to the next one. Nice clear video instruction though :-)
My late father was not a pro carpenter, but his toenailing skill was superb. At least 3 times faster than your demonstration using an ordinary claw hammer, and with common cheap nails vs screws. I'm recalling 1955, btw. Battery drills were a pipe-dream...
Put the first two screws into the flat side of a small piece of 2x4....place edge of that little board on line ......tap screws in...then do the rest as he says.....when done pull out screws from small board just far enough to release them and your all set for the next stud ...screws stay in little board....much quicker to go to next board.....throw it on the next line...tap in....set stud.....partial pull out...next You most always slightly bend the first two screws if you do it his way...
Wife buys a lot of nuts & grated cheeses in plastic containers at big box stores. I use them to put different size screws in, label size on it. Grab the size you need & head to job sight. I buy screws from stores selling them in bulk to cut cost & never over-buy the expensive ones already boxed up.
The most overexplained thing I have ever seen!!!! Very entertaining because of that. Rube Goldberg would be proud. By the way, 36 years as a working carpenter speaking here.
Cool clip but im a bit shocked you used cardboard to pack the difference for the short stud? Shouldn't you use something like malthoid thats more robust and waterproof? Cardboard will compress more overtime and you'll be short, OR, the framing could get wet due to flooding or simply moisture getting trapped in there etc and then the cardboard will be useless. Dont want to be contentious but not sure if thats the best approach?
Interior wall ok on screws at best NEVER on load walls etc. the reason screws and not used and nails are. Screws have no real give and they will snap Nails will bend ( go with the flow ) Although screws seem to be more easy and you can fix mistakes etc. there is a reason behind nails. And no point in saying BULLSHIT I have shown and done test to prove it time over again.
You can use a piece of two by four with a single screw. When you unscrew the screw it stays in the block ready for the next stud. make a 7-inch piece cut with a chop saw, have the screw centered, about an inch and a quarter in on the opposite side of the stud line.
This is ridiculous. There's no need to use screws to fasten studs, much less to freak out if they're placed a sixteenth of an inch off. Framing is not cabinetry.
If I find that the screws are splitting the wood I will bore a shallow hole with the driver tip prior to driving the screw and that does the trick because it's usually the head of the screw counter-sinking that splits the wood
Or you could just screw the screws in half way then add the one screw on other side, when screwing down 50 studs that will save lot of screwing around........ But since screws are so freeken expensive when screwing down 50 studs, a Dewalt framing nailer with one nail first on one side, then the other two on sec side will save lot of time on 50 studs, floor joist, boards, rafters, which in turns saves time money on everything........
You’re right. I modified my wall layout on this project and it was very easy to just back out the screws. Also decided to reframe a swinging door opening to a pocket door. Again, screws made the change easier than if I had used nails. Good comment. Thank you.
About the split out when putting in a screw. If you burn in the screw, it won’t split. Set the screw in place, put the drill in reverse and on high run it backwards with pressure until the screw actually burns a spot on the wood, then flip the drill back to forward and drill in the screw. Most of the time it will not split.
Put a trigger clamp across the bottom of the stud. It stops the end splitting and helps the edges to stay aligned. As for studs cut short just use a plywood shim. It goes s better job and the hassle will make you cut the timber more carefully.
Awesome video. Wondered about utilizing screws for toe screwing fo years. Now will be utilizing the info in my DIY projects not for stud work, but repairing my green house. Kudos for vid. New subscriber because of this vid. Looking forward to ur next one.
another trick to keep the wood from splitting is after you've gotten the screw just started into the wood, reverse the drill and run it backwards a little bit while holding the screw in place. then just screw it in and it prevents the wood from splitting.
How does this work? The splitting is caused by the screw going into the wood. Not by the wood caring about if the screw is going forwards or backwards or whatever. Please explain
Great for consistency and quality! I have done it myself on small scale projects (and have gotten s..t from my coworkers because of it) but....I doubt that any production carpenter will do it because of time/cost. Unfortunately, quality takes a backseat to quality in the majority of our business.
This is so helpful! We've been using this method to reframe all our exterior walls. The screws allow us to make corrections since we're not pros. You wouldn't believe the shoddy work we've uncovered! Thank you for the detailed instructions! 💖
Well sir I enjoy your precise placement and don't fault you for it. As a carpenter for close to 50years I've come to see great benefits of screwing my studs in remodeling. Anytime a customer makes a change it's easier to make happen. Although I don't get quite a precise as you in screw placement. I find that I can make minor adjustments to the line by over tighten or backing off slightly. Your clearly a good carpenter!
I appreciate your perspective and comment here Marvin. I was a carpenter and remodeler for 25 years before moving on to other things. Screws for interior stud walls in remodeling situations are a sensible option. I'm sure you can remember when we didn't have these kinds of screws. The framing in this video is an addition on my own home. I made two changes to the layout and the changes were easier to make because the screws reverse out with no problem. Thank you. 👍 P.S. For those professionals who watch this video and think that I am advocating the use of screws for all framing applications, I am not doing that. Structural framing should be done with nails because they have more tensile strength. I framed this addition on my home with nails. This is a video specifically about toenailing (or "toe-screwing"). And, as I mention in the beginning, this technique works with nails as well as it does with screws.
@@herrickkimball Tensile strength refers to the resistance of an object to deformation and fracture under stretching load along its length, such as a rope under tension. In carpentry, the resistance of nails to pull-out is much less than the internal strength of a steel nail along its length. Screws have much greater pull-out resistance and almost always the wood will fail before the screw is stretched, unless perpendicular force is also being applied. By the time that modulus of elasticity or point of fracture become relevant, the structure has already failed. If the studs in your wall are racked 20 degrees off plumb, you don't have a wall.
So what? What do you recommend I do? I'm framing up a garage door opening in my shop. I need to come in 1 ft from existing 2x8 wall on both sides. I have to build another 2x8 wall aprox 11 ft high and 15 ft long. Should I buy a Milwaukee framing nailer, hammer by hand, or use screws with my drill?
I admire the guy’s courage to post it. Idiots on here that think you would ever use this method in every application show the extent of their abilities. I’ve used this method a handful of times on remodel projects when the stud length varies drastically and you have to install your bottom and top plates first and then literally measure each individual stud to frame out your wall….also very handy if you’re building a pony wall in place and are dealing with short studs that don’t “wedge” in place on the top plate. It’s a simple concept that seems to have really stumped a lot of these UA-cam “experts”. Haha.
No mention of using the proper screws. Most screws don’t meet the structural requirement and are brittle, not legal for framing. Screws also will rust prematurely as compared to a hot dipped galvanized framing nail. So if you live in a humid or waterfront environment stay away from screws.
Thank you so very much for your valuable information! I am going to be framing in a chicken run with 2x4s this was so helpful! I was wondering how I was going to effectively attach my 2x4s using the toe mail method!
I’m the same. So many times I had to pull studs/jacks/sills/heads out because I’d made some mistake. Screws made it possible for a complete beginner to confidently try things knowing he could always back up if it didn’t work.
Interestingly you don't mention the screw type or length. Of course you shouldn't use dry wall screws (way too brittle) and I suppose its easy enough to figure the length but both of these criteria are known. Anyway, there are advantages but cost, even if your taking into account production speed, isn't one of them. I have used "temporary screws" to position studs when I'm working alone and have warped/twisted boards, then go back and use nails to finish it off. Much stronger connection and no fussing around with the inspector; on that last part just remember to go back and remove the screws so you don't have to explain it to the framing inspector.
Screws are the incorrect application for framing because screws snap to easily. Try this drive a screw 3/4 of the way and hit with your hammer the try the same with framing nail see which one snaps the 1st.
Thank you very much for your info I really appreciate that much You have no idea how many two by fours they’re open on me and I learn a lot just by watching your video thank you very much and God bless you
Instead of starting the screws on your bottom board just put them into the stud and start them and then go to the other side and put in the middle one but sync it all the way and then go back to the side and put in the first two it'll save you a lot of time you can still adjust with your screws you don't waste all your time putting into screws you got to take back out can you get the same effect
I recently retired from doing this work my entire working life. I love watching you knowledgeable and competent carpenters and wood workers. One view and I subscribed.
Not sure the application of this to framing. Any framing I have done in my life, the walls were laid out and nailed together on the ground, nailing both ends of the stud through the top and bottom plates. Then the wall is raised and set in place and nailed to the floor. This seems very time consuming and overkill with screws.
That's exactly how most walls are and should be framed, and it is how I framed the exterior walls of the addition I'm working in. The non-structural interior walls that I'm framing in this video can not be tipped up into place against the drywalled ceiling and fit tightly. So they are being framed in place. This is more typical in remodeling situations. Toenailing the studs in such situations is the way to get them secured. With no air nailer, screws make the work easier, especially when toenailing the top of the studs. Screws are an option. This video is simply about how to easily toenail (using screws or nails) when toenails are the desired option. Thanks for the comment.
It's a good tip but unnecessary. You're not building an engine. If you're trying to get a window or door opening just right, then maybe do this. Otherwise, you could be off by a quarter inch (which is a lot) and you still have a half inch to catch the seem. There is a reason it's called rough framing. lol
My first time building a fake stud chimney breast. Two screws to brace… priceless! Good to also learn the cardboard trick for this project as been cutting too long ‘just in case ‘ and to take off 1mm at a time is killing me
6 Answers to Frequent Comments...
#1- The screws I'm using in this video are #9 x 3” PowerPro interior screws.
#2-I'm using screws for framing interior partitions. I am not advocating the use of screws for structural framing. Nails have more shear strength, and I used nails when framing this house addition. This video is about nothing more than a simple how-to technique for easily and accurately toenailing studs.
#3-As mentioned early in this video, this same technique works for toenailing with nails.
#4- The interior walls in this video can not be nailed together on the deck, then tipped up into position against a drywalled ceiling and still fit tightly. Thus, they are being built in place.
#5-Yes, screws are more expensive than nails. No doubt about it.
#6-Yes, screws are more time consuming to use than a nail gun, and professional framers do not use screws. But professional remodelers (which was my profession for nearly 25 years) do use them. They are a satisfying and valid option for framing walls in place.
Thanks for watching this video. 👍❤
It’s sad for me to realize that there aren’t any carpenters anymore that know how to use a hammer. There really isn’t anything that is more efficient and cost effective than a combination of hand drives and a good framing gun. To me, screws are for the inexperienced, Expensive and time consuming. For toe nailing, put the toe of your boot against the stud and nail, or in your case, screw the opposite side
@Volkan I think so. There was a concern at one time that pressure treated chemicals may corrode steel fasteners, unless galvanized, but I've been told that is no longer an issue.
@@herrickkimball what kind of screws are you using? What size etc? I’m not good enough to see it.0
@@bryanutility9609 #9 x 3" Power Pro. More information is in the pinned comment (the top comment on this page).
@@herrickkimball now I see it thanks!
Legend has it that he is still building this wall
😂 Kind of true. It's an addition on my house that I started 3 years ago. The outside is done. The inside is still getting done. Building with no debt, while working full time. Should be all done next year. Or the year after. 👍
Hahahaha. So good. Good on him for making it perfect, but I would make 5$/day if I took this approach to all my projects.
@@ryankojabashian9599 I know what u mean but obviously uve got a framing gun diys probably won’t have one so its gonna help them do it right if somewhat slowly but that said it is a great way of getting twists out of the studs when fitting I don’t know what the quality of studding is like in the states but in the uk it’s shocking trying to get straight true timber is almost impossible nowadays with all this quick grown gear that’s on the market nowadays
Lol, like Trump
@@kendodd8734 it's the same way here in the states, nothing like the good stuff in old days
Thankyou so much for this lesson! I didn’t know I need that tip right now! Coz I do! Cheers man,Stray1 Britain’s best Unknown stuntman that never was,
I also pre-drill every hole when framing - splitting is virtually eliminated...
Thank you
So- did we talk about racking yet? and that screws break instead of bending and still holding?
Yep. That seems to be the major topic of discussion. I did mention in the video that this same technique works for nails too.
Have you thought about how far your wall has to rack before the screws break and the nails bend? Do you imagine you still have a worthwhile structure with that much deformation?
How do you toenail when you can only access one side of the board? Repairing termite damage and leaving the sheathing on so only one side of header exposed.
Drill shank-diameter clearance holes at an angle through the first piece of wood for your fasteners. Position the wood back a little from where you want it, so that it will be right where you want it with a little sideways pressure from the toenail.
1:03 what a wonderful world
When would anyone screw studs instead of nail??
The cost of using a nail gun and the faults that can occur with gad nailers has seen change to 1/4 impact drivers. Plus more hold and better control.
I am a homeowner with a day job who does not do anything construction related for a living. That being said I am working on framing out my basement and Bought this ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHQsUrwNr5GQrnx9V4xDdUr56qxwuiBHt gun. I have done a few walls already, have probably shot a couple hundred nails through this thing and have yet to have a misfire. It works awesome, good depth on every nail if you have your compressor set right. My literal only complaint is that it is a bit heavy and my arm can get a little tired especially whrn I am nailing at odd angles. That being said I am super happy with it and would buy it again. Hoping the old girl allows me to get my whole basement finished out!
Did you frame walls with a brad nailer?
@@JobsiteJohnny-nn5zy and he thought it was heavy hahahahhahahaha
Good tip. You can also lay a 2x4 cut 14 1/2" against your previous stud so that it is 16'' on centre and repeat the process using no screws over and over. Or whatever your desired spacing happens to be. Just make sure you write on it so you don't grab the wrong piece of 2x4 lol.
Exactly what I do so they stay put
Exactly
Wow, my head just exploded. Such an easy solution but I've never thought of it.
Easily repeated and STRONG as hell
Thanks for that tip .being a home owner and getting ready to do work on a Cabin that needs framing on the inside..
As soon as he freehanded that 1-1/4" line perfectly, I knew I could trust this man with my life.
Looked more like 1-1/2" to me, but my eyes ain't what they used to be😅.
Looked to me like when he flipped it over, another piece of wood without the knot was there with another line, so who knows if he got it right lol.
@@hidinfrombiden1734 Nope, was definitely 1-1/4" on the dot.
I bet he's go his ring finger pressed against the bottom of the board so the pencil can't move. Once he indexed off his knuckle he just locked it in. It's a good idea to measure various parts of your body, like thumb joint, hand width, wrist to elbow, etc. so you always got a ruler on you.
He measured a joint on his thumb, and uses that as a guide. He implied so. I use bits of my hands that way all the time. Measure a few bits, then you have a ruler you hopefully will never lose.
I discovered this very technique on my own (out of necessity) but more recently after reading old carpentry books I discovered that you can do the same thing with a flat head nail - just lie 2 flat head nails with the head on the line (tips away from the new stud) and give each a tap with the hammer so the head penetrates the timber - then you can push the new stud up against the nail heads and toe nail from the other side. It's easy to lift the nails out with you fingers. Works with nailer or hammer.
I like it. Thanks for the comment.
Or cut a 14.5" piece of stud and lay it in place butted against already installed stud. Then just pick it up after installing first two screws/nails.
@@williammoore4380 you can certainly do that but you might want a different spacing between members.
@@AS-zw4lk ?? 16 on centre isn’t happy for you ?
@@justinstevenson2061 have you ever built a wall? Not every stud can be placed 16, particularly if have to work around obstacles.
Instead of screwing 2 screws to hold the studs in place before putting toe screws in, I pre cut a 14 1/2” and a 13 3/4” 2x4 block and use them as reusable spacers. The first space I use 13 3/4” then the rest 14 1/2” block. I put the block in place put the stud against it, toe screw, remove then place in on the other side and repeat. I feel it’s faster this way and I don’t need to level all my studs just the first one.
Yeah I "invented" that technique too! The studs kept twisting as I tried to screw them in, now I do it all the time.
@@SnakeHandler-g7u Darn, I should've patented that technique before a million of you guys invented it as well.
why use a 13 3/4 to place the first stud?
@@mdgrech because normally drywall edge is on stud center, but is butted on the edge against a wall or corner when you start. It insures that when you start the drywall from the corner or butt against another wall you will be on center in subsequent studs.
I framed houses more than forty years ago and we just jammed our boot against the base of the stud and drove the nails in from the other side. Very natural and very fast. No way they would let us take the time to be so accurate in those days. I would devise a quick-release clamp to go on the plate if I were using screws today but my construction days are long over. Nice video, you explained and illustrated well. I enjoyed it.
I still do it with my boot too, works fine. I wedge it a bit past the line, when I shoot the nail it knocks over to the right spot.
Yeah I do the same thing, though there are sometimes tight circumstances where neither is possible like when you are about 19" away from an end stud and you need a spare installed at 16". No room for my fat foot or all the screws and nails put in and taken out. This is where you nail a 3" piece of scrap to the bottom right next to the line and that is your brace. Sometimes it doesn't survive 2 nails plus the pressure, but that's okay because it's just a temporary brace. I mean, all this is studwork, not cabinetry. I've never even thought about being off the width of a line as a problem.
Now I know why it's called toe nailing
exactly
I cut the board three times and it's still too short.
You need a real board stretcher. 👍🏻
You are sneaking up on it!
Always measure once & cut 3x.
You measure....I measure....I cut....all three different!
Buy a new non rubber tape. 🤣
A guy who makes his money framing would go broke doing it like this , even though I like this method. Air guns are for production...
Not necessarily, you've saved time by not fussing with an air compressor, airlines, and loading nails into a gun, or dealing with an jammed gun.
If you've ever followed production framers you'll know that they don't care if a stud is off ¼" or if the wood splits. "Let the drywallers worry about it." The drywallers really don't care either. And when that stud is secured by drywall or OSB on both sides it's not going anywhere no matter how split it is. In 25 years I've never seen my framers secure studs with screws, I, however, use 'em all the time because I'm too OCD and too chicken to use my nailer on the occasional pick-up framing that requires serious precision.
@@FLaDave351 getting compressor and line from van… 60 seconds. Powering it on and letting it build pressure… 60 seconds. Loading nails… as much time as it takes to put a screw on the tip of a bit. Driving a nail… orders of magnitude faster than driving a screw.
So when you need more than a dozen fasteners, yes nails will be faster, and less expensive per unit, and because they’re a bit more ductile, they’re more amenable to gentle manipulation with a hammer after they’re in wood if you need to adjust the workpiece afterwards. And if, like me, you’ve made the switch to cordless nailers, you’ve saved even more time and eliminated much of the hassle.
This is great instruction for DIYers who don’t want to invest in nailers, or for say plumbers and electricians who want to learn how to move a stud without the help of a framer and his tools, but this is indeed a very slow, and expensive method for a production framer.
@@FLaDave351 Trust me, a good gun won’t jam often, and even the best framers in the 80’s and 90’s switched to nailers for a reason… clearly you’ve never spent time in the trade.
You’ll spend more time trying to “get it perfect”, the screw slipping off of your impact, the wood splitting, etc that you could have framed the whole wall and nailed it in place with a nailer before you’re done putting in the code required 3+ toenail screws successfully in place.
@@edwardsmith3062 see my comment. Clearly DIY’ers think there smarter than people who can paint an entire room in 30 minutes without taping or using dropcloths, or can frame and set an entire wall in 5 minutes… 🙄🙄
I think tips like this are for guys like me who enjoy learning and trying different projects. Now I know I can tackle a small framing job with the tools I own. Thank you
Never use screws for rough framing especially on exterior walls or trusses. Nails have 10x more shear strength and can bend/flex without breaking.
15+ years trade experience here, 5 years being nothing but rough end carpentry.
Really? There's nothing wrong with using screws for framing if that's what your comfortable with and they're installed properly. This wall and pretty much all of rough framing is under compression not tension so shear is not an issue. The only time shear matters in framing is when using steel hangers and you must always use hangers nails which is a requirement in the building code, inspectors could care less if you use nails or screws in framing. Also it's not ten times more, 3 or 4 times more tops is more like it with collated nails, a bit more with twist shank hand bangers.
U are right .
@@eutimiochavez415 you are wrong, screws more expensive, and slower for a professional. Set it, 2 whacks with my Estwing. Off line? Gentle tap, perfect. Guy wouldn't last a day on a real job . 40 year carpenter.
@@richardking3967 I was 37 years on the job and now retired for 12 and I wasn't commenting on what professionals use, I stated you use what your comfortable with and that screws pass inspection, never talked about cost. Half of my career was banging nails and when cordless drills became available I with just about everyone else used screws where they were better suited, just like using a palm nailer on joist hangers. People use screws cause they suck at hammering, didn't say I was one of them.
I spent 94 years framing houses and this guy wouldn’t last eight seconds.
I’m kidding. I find all these “years on the job” posts so entertaining.
I’m a diyer and currently framing my basement. If I have to build the wall in place I’m using screws. I like their accuracy, superior pull out, and reset ability if needed.
I just shoot the studs in place using a battery operated trim gun, Then follow up with the screws, it is so much faster! You should predrill with a countersink bit, it's the taper in the head of the screw that splits the wood!
Thank you, very informative. I have to add a few studs in a shower area and this will let me get them squared up nicely. Good video, showing all the important steps. I also can't help but wonder why "professional framers" are watching your video and then commenting negatively? It seems to be geared for lowly DIY'ers like me. Well done.
Some say he’s still framing interior walls. Stop the madness. You would be better off cutting 2x4s and putting them between the studs this way you can nail you baseboards easier.
Blocking between studs at the bottom of the wall is something I've done at times and in different situations, when it made sense to do it. Like everything else, including toenailing with screws instead of nails, there are times and places where it make more sense to apply one option instead of another. By the way, I'll be installing 1x8 pine with a base cap for baseboards in this addition... and using trim screws to attach the 1x8. 😁
@@herrickkimball As a painter I have a strong dislike for trim screws. They make bigger, harder to fill holes than finish nails.
@@zone4garlicfarm Yep. That they do. ☹
Framing a house with screws will fail inspection as far as I know. Check your local building code. I suspect it has do with expansion, settling as well seasonal environmental factors. Screws brake were as nails twist and bend. If you've ever dismantled a wooden structure fastened with screws you will find a high percentage of them to be broken, were as broken nails are rarely encountered.
This has been true for many years, however now there are structural screws available from manufacturers like GRX and Simpson which are rated for framing and structural use. Have used them plenty of times for framing in multiple states now, they are allowable by most building codes these days, but it never hurts to check.
I got down on myself yesterday because I was doing it all wrong so I'm glad I found your video. Im new to DIY so thank you
For stretching a stud, i use layers of boxboard (cereal box). Won't compress like cardboard
just buy a board stretcher..... they sell them at home depot
that inch and a quarter free hand was super!
That was impressive, wasn't it?
Screws and nails are not the same. Their Shear strength is quite different. Shear strength of screws is less than nails.
I believe Project Farm did a video about this which proves your statement.
I hammered the like button like he said, but now i need a new tablet...
Awesome video for DIY enthusiasts who don't understand best practices. Thanks for this!
This is perfect! I’m new to DIY and just have a very small area to frame out. This has made me much less anxious about the toenail process. And I already have all the tools and screws I need.
I'll be danged. I am 53 years old, and you just made me measure my fingertips. I have an inch in my pointer, and 1 1/4 inch on my F you finger. I have been carrying these little measuring sticks around with me since the day I reached full growth, and I never knew it.
NICE!
This makes me ponder, though. Do Canadians have metric fingers?
Thank you for sharing this. I'm terrible with nails, so this was a perfect demonstration 🙏💫
This fella probably takes awhile to frame a project. But you can guarantee everything is dead nuts square
I would do what he does. It's not always about speed. Some people like things done right.
I frame all the time. I Don't take it to quite this level, but it's very important to me that everything's square.
Come on people...think about it. This isn't something you do on every stud. It is a great technique for the spots that are very tight.
That seems very slow and fiddly. I use a 4 x 2 block (about 10" long) with 2 nails / screws punched thru so about 5mm (3/16") of point is poking out, lay that on the bottom plate against the mark, hit it once with a hammer and then stand the stud against that then nail gun it. It's really accurate and really quick, and just grabbing a screw with your hammer claw lifts the block out to move on to the next one. Nice clear video instruction though :-)
I like it. Thanks Paul. 👍🏻
My late father was not a pro carpenter, but his toenailing skill was superb. At least 3 times faster than your demonstration using an ordinary claw hammer, and with common cheap nails vs screws. I'm recalling 1955, btw. Battery drills were a pipe-dream...
Great idea
I like it too!
Much better.
Put the first two screws into the flat side of a small piece of 2x4....place edge of that little board on line
......tap screws in...then do the rest as he says.....when done pull out screws from small board
just far enough to release them and your all set for the next stud ...screws stay in little board....much quicker to go to next board.....throw it on the next line...tap in....set stud.....partial pull out...next
You most always slightly bend the first two screws if you do it his way...
Great video! Question…did you ever consider using a 15 inch 2x4 spacer block to hold the stud in place instead of using the 2 screws?
Yes, I've used the spacer block idea. 👍
I would have to fire you on the spot if I witnessed this
Wife buys a lot of nuts & grated cheeses in plastic containers at big box stores. I use them to put different size screws in, label size on it. Grab the size you need & head to job sight.
I buy screws from stores selling them in bulk to cut cost & never over-buy the expensive ones already boxed up.
The most overexplained thing I have ever seen!!!! Very entertaining because of that. Rube Goldberg would be proud.
By the way, 36 years as a working carpenter speaking here.
Cool clip but im a bit shocked you used cardboard to pack the difference for the short stud?
Shouldn't you use something like malthoid thats more robust and waterproof?
Cardboard will compress more overtime and you'll be short, OR, the framing could get wet due to flooding or simply moisture getting trapped in there etc and then the cardboard will be useless.
Dont want to be contentious but not sure if thats the best approach?
Thanks, I guess. The next time I send an apprentice off for a board stretcher, he's going to return with a piece of cardboard. 🤣
Great advice for DIY but I would bang 3 gun nails in at angles to one another, it wouldn't move, wouldn't split, much quicker and a lot cheaper.
meanwhile i built a large house besides this guy.
Interior wall ok on screws at best
NEVER on load walls etc.
the reason screws and not used and nails are.
Screws have no real give and they will snap
Nails will bend ( go with the flow )
Although screws seem to be more easy and you can fix mistakes etc.
there is a reason behind nails.
And no point in saying BULLSHIT
I have shown and done test to prove it time over again.
Put your boot there, nail stud on the line, done. Next stud…
Btw , why screws? Nails are stronger, screws snap
You can use a piece of two by four with a single screw. When you unscrew the screw it stays in the block ready for the next stud.
make a 7-inch piece cut with a chop saw, have the screw centered, about an inch and a quarter in on the opposite side of the stud line.
Great reply
A steel washer helps keep that piece of wood stay useful for longer, I use it all the time.
@@ixer76 My new trick is a Milwaukee 23gauge pinner with 1 3/8 headless pins, 700pins with one charge of the smallest battery
This is ridiculous. There's no need to use screws to fasten studs, much less to freak out if they're placed a sixteenth of an inch off. Framing is not cabinetry.
Building with this method is good if you are paid by the hour. If you are a production builder, this is not helpful.
If I find that the screws are splitting the wood I will bore a shallow hole with the driver tip prior to driving the screw and that does the trick because it's usually the head of the screw counter-sinking that splits the wood
Or you could just screw the screws in half way then add the one screw on other side, when screwing down 50 studs that will save lot of screwing around........
But since screws are so freeken expensive when screwing down 50 studs, a Dewalt framing nailer with one nail first on one side, then the other two on sec side will save lot of time on 50 studs, floor joist, boards, rafters, which in turns saves time money on everything........
Just use a piece of wood between the stud and the last one to keep it in place while you toenail it
I just thought of that right before reading your reply.
sweet video, learning to build with wood and making my first piece of furniture right now and this was super helpful
Learning to be a carpenter, I was informed that proficiency in toenailing would be mine after driving 10,000 nails. I’m pretty good at it now.
😂
I’m sure you would have finished putting in 3 8d nails by the time he set the two backing screws. Lol.
$250 worth of lumber and $400 worth of fasteners. Dang!
thats easy you send you laborer to the hardware store to buy toenails
A lot of perks to using screws, one is holding power, mistakes are easier to fix
You’re right. I modified my wall layout on this project and it was very easy to just back out the screws. Also decided to reframe a swinging door opening to a pocket door. Again, screws made the change easier than if I had used nails. Good comment. Thank you.
About the split out when putting in a screw. If you burn in the screw, it won’t split. Set the screw in place, put the drill in reverse and on high run it backwards with pressure until the screw actually burns a spot on the wood, then flip the drill back to forward and drill in the screw. Most of the time it will not split.
i commented the same thing!
Put a trigger clamp across the bottom of the stud. It stops the end splitting and helps the edges to stay aligned.
As for studs cut short just use a plywood shim. It goes s better job and the hassle will make you cut the timber more carefully.
Awesome video. Wondered about utilizing screws for toe screwing fo years. Now will be utilizing the info in my DIY projects not for stud work, but repairing my green house. Kudos for vid. New subscriber because of this vid. Looking forward to ur next one.
I personally wouldn't use screws because they break while nails will bend with movement
another trick to keep the wood from splitting is after you've gotten the screw just started into the wood, reverse the drill and run it backwards a little bit while holding the screw in place. then just screw it in and it prevents the wood from splitting.
Or do the right thing and pilot drill. Because screws split wood period.
@@rolandthethompsongunner64 try it. much quicker and it works every time.
How does this work? The splitting is caused by the screw going into the wood. Not by the wood caring about if the screw is going forwards or backwards or whatever. Please explain
Great for consistency and quality! I have done it myself on small scale projects (and have gotten s..t from my coworkers because of it) but....I doubt that any production carpenter will do it because of time/cost. Unfortunately, quality takes a backseat to quality in the majority of our business.
Thanks for your honesty. As someone who prefers quality over speed, I usually call a pro as a last resort.
This is so helpful! We've been using this method to reframe all our exterior walls. The screws allow us to make corrections since we're not pros. You wouldn't believe the shoddy work we've uncovered! Thank you for the detailed instructions! 💖
Screws are very expensive and are not recommended for framing, they are brittle and can snap
I could have framed half a house by the time you got your drill charged
Well sir I enjoy your precise placement and don't fault you for it. As a carpenter for close to 50years I've come to see great benefits of screwing my studs in remodeling. Anytime a customer makes a change it's easier to make happen. Although I don't get quite a precise as you in screw placement. I find that I can make minor adjustments to the line by over tighten or backing off slightly. Your clearly a good carpenter!
I appreciate your perspective and comment here Marvin. I was a carpenter and remodeler for 25 years before moving on to other things. Screws for interior stud walls in remodeling situations are a sensible option. I'm sure you can remember when we didn't have these kinds of screws. The framing in this video is an addition on my own home. I made two changes to the layout and the changes were easier to make because the screws reverse out with no problem. Thank you. 👍
P.S. For those professionals who watch this video and think that I am advocating the use of screws for all framing applications, I am not doing that. Structural framing should be done with nails because they have more tensile strength. I framed this addition on my home with nails. This is a video specifically about toenailing (or "toe-screwing"). And, as I mention in the beginning, this technique works with nails as well as it does with screws.
@@herrickkimball Tensile strength refers to the resistance of an object to deformation and fracture under stretching load along its length, such as a rope under tension.
In carpentry, the resistance of nails to pull-out is much less than the internal strength of a steel nail along its length. Screws have much greater pull-out resistance and almost always the wood will fail before the screw is stretched, unless perpendicular force is also being applied.
By the time that modulus of elasticity or point of fracture become relevant, the structure has already failed. If the studs in your wall are racked 20 degrees off plumb, you don't have a wall.
Use nails for framing. And remember it’s rough framing.
We used to use hammers and nails. Simply position the stud, back it with your left foot so it can't move and drive in the nails.
That’s how I’ve always toenail my screws too .
I like the Milwaukee bits with the DeWalt driver... lol :)
DelWauky
Can you use this technique to attach a joist to a rim-joist when both are atop a top plate if you don't have access to the back side of the rim joist?
Some may disagree with me, but yes is my answer. 👍
Shims made from beer can aluminum, anyone? :)
I would've had literally 6 studs up by the time the video finished playing...
So what? What do you recommend I do? I'm framing up a garage door opening in my shop. I need to come in 1 ft from existing 2x8 wall on both sides. I have to build another 2x8 wall aprox 11 ft high and 15 ft long. Should I buy a Milwaukee framing nailer, hammer by hand, or use screws with my drill?
Great idea if you have all the time in the world to fart around with a 1/8 to 1/4 inch risk. Put your boot against it and git 'er done.
Mmmmm
Screw should not be used for stud wall construction, nails are better as they are malleable, screws are ridged and can snap with timber movement !
And a nail gun is easier!
And 4 years later, Voila! He’s done framing.
Dewalt driver with Milwaukee bits? Have you no brand loyalty good sir?
😂
I admire the guy’s courage to post it. Idiots on here that think you would ever use this method in every application show the extent of their abilities. I’ve used this method a handful of times on remodel projects when the stud length varies drastically and you have to install your bottom and top plates first and then literally measure each individual stud to frame out your wall….also very handy if you’re building a pony wall in place and are dealing with short studs that don’t “wedge” in place on the top plate. It’s a simple concept that seems to have really stumped a lot of these UA-cam “experts”. Haha.
Thank you ayn
So easy! God, I was turning it into a science with a Kreg jig to frame up some floating shelves and This. Is. Way. Easier!
No mention of using the proper screws. Most screws don’t meet the structural requirement and are brittle, not legal for framing. Screws also will rust prematurely as compared to a hot dipped galvanized framing nail. So if you live in a humid or waterfront environment stay away from screws.
Thank you so very much for your valuable information! I am going to be framing in a chicken run with 2x4s this was so helpful! I was wondering how I was going to effectively attach my 2x4s using the toe mail method!
Your idea would get a man fired from a job site quick. Just allow for the drift and you get the same results.
Thank you for this! Very useful!
How about you put one screw and two nails
Amazing builder…I want to be like you when I grow up! I’m 66 now.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
So… not stretching a stud. Gotcha
The house will be finished in 2947
Thank you because I was struggling with trying to do a toe nail on the stud.
I'm just happy to find someone working with Screws and not nails as I do. Building for me is 2 steps forward one step back so I use screws. LOL
I’m the same. So many times I had to pull studs/jacks/sills/heads out because I’d made some mistake. Screws made it possible for a complete beginner to confidently try things knowing he could always back up if it didn’t work.
Screws are better fasteners, period...
Screws snap. Nails bend.
@@bobhoffman5581 For framing, only if their structural.
Screws are expensive...
True. Shockingly expensive for a decent screw like I use in this video.
Interestingly you don't mention the screw type or length. Of course you shouldn't use dry wall screws (way too brittle) and I suppose its easy enough to figure the length but both of these criteria are known. Anyway, there are advantages but cost, even if your taking into account production speed, isn't one of them.
I have used "temporary screws" to position studs when I'm working alone and have warped/twisted boards, then go back and use nails to finish it off. Much stronger connection and no fussing around with the inspector; on that last part just remember to go back and remove the screws so you don't have to explain it to the framing inspector.
The screws I'm using are #9 x 3" Power Pro Interior screws. Thanks for the comment.
Impact drills are the greatest inventions for tools in the last 2 decades.
Screws are the incorrect application for framing because screws snap to easily. Try this drive a screw 3/4 of the way and hit with your hammer the try the same with framing nail see which one snaps the 1st.
Thank you very much for your info
I really appreciate that much
You have no idea how many two by fours they’re open on me and I learn a lot just by watching your video thank you very much and God bless you
Instead of starting the screws on your bottom board just put them into the stud and start them and then go to the other side and put in the middle one but sync it all the way and then go back to the side and put in the first two it'll save you a lot of time you can still adjust with your screws you don't waste all your time putting into screws you got to take back out can you get the same effect
I recently retired from doing this work my entire working life. I love watching you knowledgeable and competent carpenters and wood workers. One view and I subscribed.
Not sure the application of this to framing. Any framing I have done in my life, the walls were laid out and nailed together on the ground, nailing both ends of the stud through the top and bottom plates. Then the wall is raised and set in place and nailed to the floor.
This seems very time consuming and overkill with screws.
That's exactly how most walls are and should be framed, and it is how I framed the exterior walls of the addition I'm working in. The non-structural interior walls that I'm framing in this video can not be tipped up into place against the drywalled ceiling and fit tightly. So they are being framed in place. This is more typical in remodeling situations. Toenailing the studs in such situations is the way to get them secured. With no air nailer, screws make the work easier, especially when toenailing the top of the studs. Screws are an option. This video is simply about how to easily toenail (using screws or nails) when toenails are the desired option. Thanks for the comment.
It's a good tip but unnecessary. You're not building an engine. If you're trying to get a window or door opening just right, then maybe do this. Otherwise, you could be off by a quarter inch (which is a lot) and you still have a half inch to catch the seem. There is a reason it's called rough framing. lol
Nice, but to slow for framers.
Framing 40+yrs WTF
My first time building a fake stud chimney breast. Two screws to brace… priceless!
Good to also learn the cardboard trick for this project as been cutting too long ‘just in case ‘ and to take off 1mm at a time is killing me