@@AnalogResurgence As the supplier of the P7 I know firsthand. It is frustrating that the general public doesn't necessarily grasp the realities of what we are trying to do so I appreciate your understanding. This stuff is hard.
I’m glad you enjoyed it and found it to be accurate as well. The work that 20x24 does looks amazing and the efforts of yourself and everyone involved is so fantastic!
Because of politics and everything of the last century instant photography was never really a thing here in China loll and these days it’s getting gradually popular but *most* ppl are just fine with Instax and Polaroids so the market for pack films is extremely extremely slim
eladbari Your statement might be true for contemporary China, but in earlier years there were several domestic film producers (granted, they are more known for their affordable prices rather than colors or image quality). However, there are some efforts trying to revive film productions in China. Shanghai GP3, for example, is a 400 speed b&w film that has been brought back recently (you could even find it at B&H).
While I can't afford One Instant film, I appreciate what they're doing. I hope pack film for vintage cameras will make a comeback with the increased popularity of the new instant cameras.
All this goes to show, what a treasure the old original Polaroid was. Like everything else in life, we didn't appreciate it, until it had gone. Very informative presentation.
25 y/o amateur photographer here. New to 4x5 with an Intrepid, just bought a Polaroid 405, and ordered 18 shots of One Instant. My only pack film experience is pulling the dried up 18 year old Polaroid film that was still loaded into the back. I love what super sense is doing and even though I missed the golden age of pack film, I'm glad I get to experience the new frontier from the very start.
I didn't have anywhere to mention it in the video, but the One Instant Kickstarter video has Florian Kaps claiming that their packaging is "The Nicest Film Packaging in history." Really gotta disagree with ya there One Instant. It's fine.
I would say Polaroid has the nicest film packaging in history.... I love they’re boxes,,, the textures, the colors, the little details,,, simply awesome!!
Great channel. As a 16-year-old high school student I bought a brand new Yashica Electro 8 LD-8 in 1975 to shoot surfing film. I noticed you displayed it in your intro and it really brought back fond memories.
I'm surprised Polaroid hasn't attempted to resurrect 4x5 film as they did with 8x10. Their LF film is almost entirely hand made so I don't see why they can't cut single shot 4x5 integral shots for use in old Polaroid holders.
I'm relatively new to film photography but I love watching all your videos about each different type and how they work. Its all just so interesting and your videos are amazing! Keep up the great work (:
I have a pack film camera in my film camera collection. When I got it, I was hoping to get some pack film to use and make a small scrapbook out of the images. But that was before I got caught up and found out pack film was discontinued. Here's hoping that one day pack film quality will approach what it once was. If it does, I'll be ready to buy some.
This is the best video on the topic I've seen. I've got 18 shots that I haven't used yet. The results I've seen from others have indeed run from poor to excellent. I have a lot of the Fuji left fortunately. I'll continue to support their efforts but it will never be more than a product for a very narrow niche and, therefore, expensive. When all the passport photos moved to digital here in the US it killed the pack film market. About a year ago I was going to start an analog photography channel and browsed around looking for ideas and came across yours. Your videos are so well done that I knew I'd have nothing better to offer. Well done, I enjoy the channel tremendously.
I remember buying the early polaroid film that Impossible Project would make and being less than impressed by the results but also knowing that it was a work in progress. This video got my hopes up at first and kind of put me back to reality when I realized that mass production seems unlikely. Fingers crossed though, I mean hell, I can find refills for my 600 at Walmart now. Admittedly the audience for pack film is much smaller but one can hope.
My dad gave me his old Polaroid 103, and from the get go it's basically just been a cool display piece. If One Instant gets their product to a fairly consistent level, I would get a 3 or 6 pack to just be able to experience how shooting on one of those old pack-film cameras was like at least a few times.
Youre not paying $10 a shot to make a pretty picture, you're paying $10 a shot to support an amazing small startup project, to hack some old technology, to have a unique and different photographic experience, to engage with history, and to go out and have fun trying to get a good or interesting shot. This is a good example of the saying it's about the journey not the destination.
I kickstarted it and love my packs, yet to use them ... waiting for the right moment to experiment ... your video opened my eyes, I had no idea about the history!!! I am a pack film user since 1970, my first camera was a Colorpak II ... really wish it was "real" pack film!!!
Great video, it answers my questions about one instant film. I thought it was 3 in every cartridge and the fact that all is manually made is so interesting. Maybe the prices are expensive and the photos don't end flawless as the fuji ones but I think I'll choose one instant to start shooting packfilm in the near future.
Hol E Crap! I picked up a polaroid square shooter 2 at a yard sale about 3 years ago, it was what got me into photography! Going down massive rabbit holes of old cameras my grandfather had and their film types (mostly old and not great stuff like disc film lmao). But seeing the pricetags on pack film made me feel it was useless to try to seek that out at the financial state i was/am in. I still wanted to dive as deep as possible into photography and still am! Heck i just picked up a Minolta XG-1 at an antique store! But this is REALLY awesome to see!!! Edit. Finally got to the prices of these.. oof. But maybe therell be hope for future projects
Just got a Polaroid 340 from a friend who got it at a flea market, now I can actually use it alongside my 660 Sun Autofocus! Of course I’ll be using the 340 very very sparingly
I really missed FP-100C, still have a few packs of 100C and 3000B in my drawer without fridge. Use to shoot with poloroid 110B mod for packfilm. The outlook is great and the size is compact. i really don't wanna convert it with instax wide back as it looks bulky to me. Recently i found an FP1 and it is on the way, will try shoot a few pack when the camera arrives.
I like your take on it. I think you're the first person I've seen to actually buy some stuff and give a review on it. I haven't tried any, but may at some point. Last summer (2019) I played around with designing a chemical pod that could be made by hand. It was NOT easy. I feel like One Instant's first step to improving what they have is to try and make their own pods to better control how much chemistry goes where. Once they get the physical details of that figured out, I feel like it would be easy enough for them to experiment more with film materials and chemicals. Idk though, props to them for assembling thousands of these things by hand, it must take a lot of time to do, so I won't fault them for having slow improvements.
one thing to keep in front of mind though, is that 'pack film' was originally just a way studio LF shooters could test exposure, composition & focus of their equipment before committing the shot to 'sheet' film, which is expensive, esp. if the clients wanted a specific look, so at that time 'Polaroid' was not a 'real film', in the sense of a camera for making Photographs with; snapshots, and 'fun' begginer film experience for kids, YES.
I would hope to see this project continue to exist. I want to able to come across an instant slide printer and make new prints of any slide film I plan to shoot
original Polacolor 108 and 3000 prints we're supposed to be wiped after you print the photo. I'm not sure what the wipe consisted of, but that might be part of why the color shifts after you take the shot.
I have never used pock film but modern Polaroid film has a problem. The plastic border material falls apart when it get old. So old photos one has to take apart and clean. I am not sure if pack film has a similar problem.
Excellent overview of where we all are right now in the “not Fujifilm instant” story. Florian is a brilliant motivator and his passion has created a team of incredibly capable people, but he knows that ultimately the pack film project is doomed unless a large film and chemical company helps with the heavy lifting. You mentioned Ferrania and Ilford, but they are not the huge companies they once were and are slowly building up their user base again after nearly going under, but that is another story. I wish that Florian and his team had not gone for packfilm first, instead trying to re-create the 5x4 inch single sheet peel-apart, like new55. They probably would have got further with it by now. In my experience of instant imaging, I have seen that a great many users of instant materials are artists, who lift, stretch and manipulate their instant images, and the imperfection of the results don’t bother them at all. Maybe they are the ones to buy these very expensive materials, because right now, photographers are not lining up to buy it in its present form.
I'd love to support it but the cost of fuji instax and 35mm film and processing fees is already kind of expensive, and the cost of this in comparison is on another level.
Hi Noah, I have a question about my 103 Land camera... I got a new battery but may have the incorrect voltage? Is 4.5 V. okay to use in the 103 model, or must it be only 3.0 V - will 4.5 damage anything ? Thanks!!
one question, if you have a 504 holder for Hasselblad, the Mamiya universal ground-glass/pack holder, or a holder for 4x5" cameras (Linhof Technika/whista/chamonix), CAN this ONE INSTANT film go into them?, thereby restoring the use of these backs.
Insanely underrated channel. Great video. My thoughts exactly. I am happy to see packfilm out there again (though I still have a few boxes of fp100c's left in my freezer that I stockpiled in 2015) I hope there'll be something better in time. One thing for sure, Fuji will never start producing packfilm again. Which is OK, I just wish they had been more open to helping the film community to find alternatives.
Fuji made 4x5 pack film (FP100C45, FP3000B45), but not the 4x5 single instant film that I’m talking about here, such as Polaroid Type 55, 59, etc which New55 makes.
I am trying out as many stocks on the same shot (still life) as I can and hope to add wet plate and direct positive paper to that mix. I just got around to trying the One Instant I received via Kickstarter. My gut reaction was “This would get a stellar rating if it were a high school science project.” As a material to do any kind of creative photography, it falls flat. The inconvenience, mess, poor results, and high cost are a non-starter. I have an Instax Option 8 back for my 4x5 that has to have the focus shifted to shoot since the film plane sits back from the ground glass. That inconvenience pales by comparison. I still hope that Supersense can continue on, but they have to do significantly better if the material is going to be viable.
Man I'm really bummed out. I only recently learned that polaroid cameras have all sorts of film types. I picked up a polaroid 250 land camera thinking that I could just go on amazon and get film for it. Only to discover that this one instant is literally the only option left. Dang it. I just wanted to play with a film format I've never played with before. What a waste. I should have just stuck with 35mm.
What this project needs is a backer with very, very deep pockets and a love of film. Someone who is willing to "reinvent the wheel" if need be in order to produce a reliable and high quality product. Someone who might even buy out the project and Polaroid, combine both and give the pack film side something to build from a more established base. The problem with One Instant is they have no money and little base to build from. They don't have the technical resources to grow from where they are and cannot really innovate because of that. That being said, what they're doing is remarkable and admirable, but it's not going anywhere in a hurry, or even at a moderate pace. They're treading water and doing OK, but it's not going to go on like that indefinitely. Sooner, rather than later, they're going to find it increasingly difficult to keep on going and will come to the point of hitting that brick wall and they will, unfortunately, fold. I hope that doesn't happen, but as they're going along at present, I can't see any other possible future without a lot of input from someone coming along to boost their fortunes.
I have been very interested in this project,,, once they have the kinks worked out..I will give it a shot,,, hopefully more than one shot per pack.... IMO that is unacceptable...for the price,,,,now if they were using fresh negative,,, and not stuff expired a decade ago... I believe the results would be much more impressive,,the simple fact that Noah obviously isn’t happy about the product,, says volumes...
It's got to get better than what you are showing before I can purchase it. I'd rather support One Instant than the FP100 scalpers on ebay, but the product has got to get better. Thanks for sharing
For some of this stuff there's probably a big factor around availability of materials and changing regulations involving chemicals. Even then just manufacturing the necessary materials is a massive undertaking, certain Polaroid machines were junked after the company stopped production of pack films in the early 2000s and Fuji has likely decommissioned machinery of their own.
@@AnalogResurgence I am going to buy some of this stuff because I like to torture myself. I am going to keep my pack film cameras and hope for the best. Great video btw.
In the case of Polaroid I believe certain chemicals were outright banned so it's impossible to recreate the original formula for Polaroids and Packfilm. With Fuji they probably didn't understand why people would want to keep an old format alive when instax is making them so much money. It sucks but that's the reality of it. I've personally moved on from instant film and enjoy shooting 120 medium format
You can not say Fuji is not anymore in the instant business. They scrapped the machines so to not have competition to their Instax film. Would a competitor be out there, even if only producing packfilm, they could not charge the price they do now.
And we think roll film is expensive.! I left film behind in the 90s but using it again this past year and enjoying the proccess but still use digital, it's hard to reject the speed at which I'm able to transfer an image from my phone or desktop with wifi an see it pop out of my pro 200 half a minuet later.
As far as I can tell, New55 has been dead since 2017, no updates on their site since the 'cease production' message. But what's interesting is there appear to be scattered remnants and recreations of all various parts of the peel apart package in different locations: One Instant have the negative and positive from Polarioid 20x24, and have modified pods from the '20x24 machine' (not clear if this is literally taking 20x24 pods and cutting them to length, or extracting 20x24 chemistry and inserting into new pods, or something else). Polaroid no-longer-originals still sell some 8x10 peelapart, but I'm not sure if their negatives, positives, and pods are just remnant old stock or if they have some short run manufacturing capability. New55 had (has?) pods they purchased from an unnamed supplier, and negative & positive of unknown origin (old stock? cut-down 20x24?) but potentially made themselves due to mentions in the defunct blog of a 'coating machine' (though this could have been for coating adhesive for the peelapart assembly, it's not entirely clear). So we have: - Old stock of negative and positive from 20x24, can be cut down to 100 size or 4x5 - Polaroid MAY be able to manufacture 8x10 sheets (which could be cut down), or it could be old stock - Potentially New55 had cracked manufacture of new 4x5 stock (could be cut down to 100 size) - Pods from 20x24 cut down or otherwise remanufactured for One Instant (100 size) - Pods of unknown origin used by New55 (4x5 size) - 8x10 pods from Polaroid, may be new manufacture or old stock - Single-load 4x5 packages from New55 - Single-shot 100 series boxes from One Instant It really feels like if all the disparate packfilm makers cooperated, there is the ability to manufacture new packfilm, as single shot packages for 100 series or 4x5, from new components.
The newer Polaroid 8x10 film is a re-engineered version of the original 8x10 stuff, so not old stock. It's now like a large integral film instead of how it used to be which was like a large peel apart film. New55 reorganized themselves with one of the Co-founders I believe and has become New55PN. Their information can be found here: famousformat.com/category/new55-pn/
@@AnalogResurgence it still gets processed in the old 8x10 machines though, and can still be peeled apart. So although 'integral' (...ish, only the backside-viewed transparent positive is carried over from the integrated 'mini' version, there are still two discrete peelapart positive and negative plus a pod tucked under the front edge of the positive) there shound be an avenue for reduced width versions compatible with existing roller processors.
Looking through the FamousFormat blog, things are a bit more clear: FF/New55 now have the capability to manufacture pods, and to manufacture positives (unclear if their negatives are 'normal' CoTS negatives, or old stock).
@@edz44 I believe the new55 negatives are COTS, either Foma or Shanghai. The box for their "Atomic" film comes in looks like a Foma/Shanghai box. My first guess would be Foma, since they've been making 400 speed film for longer, but I know Shanghai has just started making 400 speed roll film, so perhaps they're also making it in 400 speed.
A cold clip is just an old polaroid accessory that's essentially two flat pieces of metal hinged at one end (with tape usually). In cold weather you put the cold clip in your pocket and when you've taken your polaroid/instant shot, you sandwich it between the metal pieces that have warmed up in your pocket. Very simple and just helps to keep your picture warm to aid in the chemical developing in cooler weather. www.polaroidland.net/2012/01/17/instant-artifact-the-cold-clip-model-193/
I know I'm late to the game but I picked up a Polaroid 220 at a thrift store the other day so I've been going down this packfilm rabbit hole a bit. I bought the camera mostly as a display piece - I pick up Polaroids whenever I see them and I have a Spectra so I'm not exactly a stranger to having Polaroid paperweights, but it's still a shame it's in such a sad state. I don't know if it's improved at all since this video was made but it hasn't gotten any more affordable and it's still sad to think that all of this is on a timer, using limited resources to create something that will expire in time.
Business 101- supply vs demand....no demand= no supply. Instant Esoteric films have virtually 0 demand hence its death. If shooting film is what you want, save your $$ and get into medium format; at least the negatives and prints have a better archival life. Funny thing about analog is that in order for you to post it on instagram or FB, you have to digitize it!!
It’s just so darn expensive. I wish I could afford to shoot it. I backed the Kickstarter but don’t dare shoot any because I’m so worried about messing one up. I try to be careful but one moment of inattention and that’s it … £20 down the drain.
I would love for them to create more packfilm, but like you said, without the machines... I have a huge stock of Polaroid in various formats. I also have boxes of Impossible Project, New55 and One Instant. Personally, I would love to see single-shot 4x5 film. Considering the popularity of Intrepid cameras, I think that there's a larg market there to supply that sort of film to LF users using the Polaroid backs. I used up my Polaroid 4x5, but still have some boxes of Fuji 4x5 pack film. That stuff was great. It was useful for making images and as a proofing tool on more complicated 4x5 shots. When I finally bought a digital camera I refused to consider Fuji cameras because of the way they approach their analog products. Horrible people.
instax film kinda works like pack film with the chemicle pack and all. id be cool if they can glue a tab to the back of that stuff and pull it thorough the rollers of pack film backs to use these obsolete cameras. to me its not the film that's important with the pagentry of that but getting the cameras working.
Not unless they find a better solution for their chemical pods. That seems to be the one of the big things holding them back. 8 or 10 just seems so unlikely in the near future because of how complex the assembly is as well.
@@AnalogResurgence if one instant is kinda successful I think maybe in about 6-10 years 8-10 shot pack film might, might just come back, that's if we're lucky 🍀🥺
I don’t understand why the start up company doesn’t break down the chemicals compounds of the the P7 film and have and idea to work with, still super cool though
They should sell a reusable/ loadable film cartridge, and sell the film separately. The film should come in a box similar to sheet film or photo paper, with instructions on how to load the cartridge in a dark bag. Also for future production maybe they should try to work on understanding and developing their own material, instead of hoping someone else does it for them. Currently one instant needs to stream line the production line and find ways to cut costs. It's been a year since this video came out, the cost went up and there is no sign of a road map for the future. I don't really see buying this film as helping the pack film industry. I'm mostly disappointed in Fuji though. They have the resources to put this stuff back into production but won't, and they won't license or distribute the plans on how to make it for other companies.
What if Florian was able to get at least blueprints to all those machines that manufacture all the old type of 10 pack origami style film? But then again that's probably a corporate secret.
The machinery for manufacturing pack film on that scale is likely massive and incredibly expensive. Like they didn’t build machines for Impossible Project, they were just lucky enough to save them. I think even if they had a LEGO set style instruction manual for those machines it would be beyond what they’re capable of haha
@@AnalogResurgence You vastly underestimate what modern engineering can accomplish. As a mechanical engineer myself, I reckon with a dedicated engineering team a machine to make the modules could be fabricated in less than a year. At the end of the day it would be a glorified packaging machine, albeit more intricate. The problem with this really is that it would mean they would have to rump up production. A machine like that is not economic to run making a couple hundred rolls per year. They'd have to make thousands if not tens of thousands to cover the tooling & running costs. And from my understanding the market isnt really there, as this is a very niche thing, which is already pretty well exploited by the likes of Fuji and Polaroid. This is the underlying reason this is not a thing.
As far as I know the color film has not changed much and I believe it is currently unavailable to but. They have produced black and white film that I believe is improved but I have not used it.
I think the best use of this pack film is for test shots before you bust out a roll of film on a shoot. IMO this ain't your momma's fun and quick polaroids. One day this could turn into a bigger revival, but as long as professionals shoot film, this pack film will find a home.
What should happen (but probably will not) is for them to team up with a company such as Kodak who has produced instant film in the past. They need to find a company such as Kodak who has experience, equipment and some cash to improve and move forward.
Soo sad. I'm an original impossible pioneer member(still have my neat aluminum card!)and realistically I can say this format is dead. I have 20 packs of fp100c left. It is precious to me and I'll be shooting for years to come. But...honestly, for price and reliability roll film is a better bet. Alot of b/w roll film I have bought has been viable, with at least 60% of rolls producing multiple images. That horrible carcinogen chemical soup just stands up better.....also, I've had good luck with old polaroid 679 packfilm... It's done....I mean look what happened to impossible. They just dropped spectra...WHAT! It isn't what it was. The people that revived the film are now discontinuing it... How much longer do ya think sx70 film will be available. Within two years it'll be 600 with a nd filter... Mark my words... The only option is a fuji partnership making new integral film that works in packfilm cameras. An origami pack of instax....but guess what. Not gonna happen
Worth noting is that New55 first gen was based on a partnership with 20x24 who unexpectedly jumped out of the ship. This almost killed New55 that only survived thanks to Sam Hiser’s tenacity. A silver lining for New55 2nd gen has been the internalization of pods production. Finding new film shouldn’t be an issue for OneInstant as far as the consumer is ok with the price. The pod, reagent inside and paper seem more complex parts to drive a true step-up in quality. Right now I believe more in New55 project as OneInstant relies too much on an unreliable partner supplying outdated components.
@@AnalogResurgence yeah, if only fuji or Polaroid didn't scrap all those machines. Hopefully they can make it somewhat cheaper for the folks who don't wanna spend like 60 bucks for 3 shots
I put thousands of dollars paying Impossible Project films even if at beginning the results were mediocre. I'm not ready to do that for pack film. I wish the best luck to One Instant and New 55 that is not good either. Polaroid could get back because every family had a Polaroid camera home. This is not the case with Peel Camera. Because of that I think Peel Camera are dead. It's sad but not all film format is going to survive.
Bunch of looser CEO´s at Fuji, claiming that they love "images" but don't want that pack film is produced by someone who is willing to do it outside of the CEO bonus payments. I follow the one instant project from the beginning and it left me puzzled. Just sell the machines and get a 2-3$ fee per sold pack for the license.
Someone could research the patent for the machines that made the fuji pack film and use said patent to rebuild the machines... presto more pack film!!!
The problem of course is the money and resources for something like that. Those machines aren’t small or cheap and the pack film market isn’t big enough to simply support a massive investment. It’s also not just rebuild a machine, but also restart production for a variety of components necessary for the format. Finding a way to create this stuff on a small scale is what they’re attempting to do.
So they cut up soemthing even more rare to make film that you still can buy second hand. The shamless part is, they tell you they make it to save packfilm when in fact they make it only and alone for the money.
Passion is worth nothing without knowledge. If they dont manage even to have a tape not sticking like hell, they have no idea. They simply cut up larger format polaroid film.
![The Past & Future of Polaroid Packfilm feat. Doc & Chris from Supersense [Instant Breakdown]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-CokbP_Rh-E/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Past & Future of Polaroid Packfilm feat. Doc & Chris from Supersense [Instant Breakdown]](/img/tr.png)
This is an excellent and realistic overview of the pack film reality. Thank you.
Thank you! There’s so many sides to it, but I tried to look at it from a several different angles without being unfairly critical.
@@AnalogResurgence As the supplier of the P7 I know firsthand. It is frustrating that the general public doesn't necessarily grasp the realities of what we are trying to do so I appreciate your understanding. This stuff is hard.
I’m glad you enjoyed it and found it to be accurate as well. The work that 20x24 does looks amazing and the efforts of yourself and everyone involved is so fantastic!
I'm sort of surprised a company in China didn't reverse engineer Fuji pack film so they can manufacture and sell it.
Because of politics and everything of the last century instant photography was never really a thing here in China loll and these days it’s getting gradually popular but *most* ppl are just fine with Instax and Polaroids so the market for pack films is extremely extremely slim
@@Dylanwwang i thought maybe it's cause chinese don't mess with chemicals. More with plastic/electronics etc..
eladbari Your statement might be true for contemporary China, but in earlier years there were several domestic film producers (granted, they are more known for their affordable prices rather than colors or image quality). However, there are some efforts trying to revive film productions in China. Shanghai GP3, for example, is a 400 speed b&w film that has been brought back recently (you could even find it at B&H).
@@Dylanwwang Why would instant photography need to be big in China? It was big in the US.
The machinery was way too big and complex for a small business to handle, I remember reading an interview about this
While I can't afford One Instant film, I appreciate what they're doing. I hope pack film for vintage cameras will make a comeback with the increased popularity of the new instant cameras.
All this goes to show, what a treasure the old original Polaroid was. Like everything else in life, we didn't appreciate it, until it had gone. Very informative presentation.
Two dislikes came from CEO´s at Fuji.
It really is the Passion that drives this project forward. All the best wishes.
Hopefully a more realistic and affordable alternative will emerge because 1 shot per pack isn’t a sustainable way to shoot for anyone.
Do you know if something has been emerge since your messaege ?
@@tontonflairix8130 supersense raised their prices on one instant but that's about it
25 y/o amateur photographer here. New to 4x5 with an Intrepid, just bought a Polaroid 405, and ordered 18 shots of One Instant. My only pack film experience is pulling the dried up 18 year old Polaroid film that was still loaded into the back. I love what super sense is doing and even though I missed the golden age of pack film, I'm glad I get to experience the new frontier from the very start.
I didn't have anywhere to mention it in the video, but the One Instant Kickstarter video has Florian Kaps claiming that their packaging is "The Nicest Film Packaging in history." Really gotta disagree with ya there One Instant. It's fine.
I would say Polaroid has the nicest film packaging in history.... I love they’re boxes,,, the textures, the colors, the little details,,, simply awesome!!
I love to see recyclable paper packaging rather than trash plastic cartridges! 👏👏👏
Perhaps "the highest labor, most handmade film packaging in history" would be more accurate...
Great channel. As a 16-year-old high school student I bought a brand new Yashica Electro 8 LD-8 in 1975 to shoot surfing film. I noticed you displayed it in your intro and it really brought back fond memories.
Ive always wondered if they could daisy chain a bunch of intergral film and it load that into a pack to shoot.
Or use Instax
I'm surprised Polaroid hasn't attempted to resurrect 4x5 film as they did with 8x10. Their LF film is almost entirely hand made so I don't see why they can't cut single shot 4x5 integral shots for use in old Polaroid holders.
I'm relatively new to film photography but I love watching all your videos about each different type and how they work. Its all just so interesting and your videos are amazing! Keep up the great work (:
I have a pack film camera in my film camera collection. When I got it, I was hoping to get some pack film to use and make a small scrapbook out of the images. But that was before I got caught up and found out pack film was discontinued. Here's hoping that one day pack film quality will approach what it once was. If it does, I'll be ready to buy some.
This is the best video on the topic I've seen. I've got 18 shots that I haven't used yet. The results I've seen from others have indeed run from poor to excellent. I have a lot of the Fuji left fortunately. I'll continue to support their efforts but it will never be more than a product for a very narrow niche and, therefore, expensive. When all the passport photos moved to digital here in the US it killed the pack film market.
About a year ago I was going to start an analog photography channel and browsed around looking for ideas and came across yours. Your videos are so well done that I knew I'd have nothing better to offer. Well done, I enjoy the channel tremendously.
I was waiting for a video on this! Beautifully done man!
Iv'e just ordered my first pack :-) We need to support this for it to continue :-)
I remember buying the early polaroid film that Impossible Project would make and being less than impressed by the results but also knowing that it was a work in progress.
This video got my hopes up at first and kind of put me back to reality when I realized that mass production seems unlikely. Fingers crossed though, I mean hell, I can find refills for my 600 at Walmart now. Admittedly the audience for pack film is much smaller but one can hope.
My dad gave me his old Polaroid 103, and from the get go it's basically just been a cool display piece. If One Instant gets their product to a fairly consistent level, I would get a 3 or 6 pack to just be able to experience how shooting on one of those old pack-film cameras was like at least a few times.
I didn't know this stuff existed. I'm watching this more than a year and a half later and I'm blown away
Youre not paying $10 a shot to make a pretty picture, you're paying $10 a shot to support an amazing small startup project, to hack some old technology, to have a unique and different photographic experience, to engage with history, and to go out and have fun trying to get a good or interesting shot. This is a good example of the saying it's about the journey not the destination.
👏👏👏
Totally!
I kickstarted it and love my packs, yet to use them ... waiting for the right moment to experiment ... your video opened my eyes, I had no idea about the history!!! I am a pack film user since 1970, my first camera was a Colorpak II ... really wish it was "real" pack film!!!
Great video, it answers my questions about one instant film. I thought it was 3 in every cartridge and the fact that all is manually made is so interesting. Maybe the prices are expensive and the photos don't end flawless as the fuji ones but I think I'll choose one instant to start shooting packfilm in the near future.
Spot on! I supported the project because I want that thrift store artist in 2060 to be able to get packfilm for his/her $10 find
$10 gonna be the cost of a bar of chocolate in 2060
Hol E Crap! I picked up a polaroid square shooter 2 at a yard sale about 3 years ago, it was what got me into photography! Going down massive rabbit holes of old cameras my grandfather had and their film types (mostly old and not great stuff like disc film lmao). But seeing the pricetags on pack film made me feel it was useless to try to seek that out at the financial state i was/am in.
I still wanted to dive as deep as possible into photography and still am! Heck i just picked up a Minolta XG-1 at an antique store! But this is REALLY awesome to see!!!
Edit. Finally got to the prices of these.. oof. But maybe therell be hope for future projects
Just got a Polaroid 340 from a friend who got it at a flea market, now I can actually use it alongside my 660 Sun Autofocus! Of course I’ll be using the 340 very very sparingly
Thank you Noah for the comprehensive review on the current state of pack film.
I really missed FP-100C, still have a few packs of 100C and 3000B in my drawer without fridge. Use to shoot with poloroid 110B mod for packfilm. The outlook is great and the size is compact. i really don't wanna convert it with instax wide back as it looks bulky to me. Recently i found an FP1 and it is on the way, will try shoot a few pack when the camera arrives.
I like your take on it. I think you're the first person I've seen to actually buy some stuff and give a review on it. I haven't tried any, but may at some point. Last summer (2019) I played around with designing a chemical pod that could be made by hand. It was NOT easy. I feel like One Instant's first step to improving what they have is to try and make their own pods to better control how much chemistry goes where. Once they get the physical details of that figured out, I feel like it would be easy enough for them to experiment more with film materials and chemicals. Idk though, props to them for assembling thousands of these things by hand, it must take a lot of time to do, so I won't fault them for having slow improvements.
Let’s goooo ✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿
14:38 maybe don’t load the paper cartridges in bright day light or studio light??? 🎞 🖼
Being a broke student, being able to shoot pack film someday is my biggest dream.
one thing to keep in front of mind though, is that 'pack film' was originally just a way studio LF shooters could test exposure, composition & focus of their equipment before committing the shot to 'sheet' film, which is expensive, esp. if the clients wanted a specific look, so at that time 'Polaroid' was not a 'real film', in the sense of a camera for making Photographs with; snapshots, and 'fun' begginer film experience for kids, YES.
I would hope to see this project continue to exist. I want to able to come across an instant slide printer and make new prints of any slide film I plan to shoot
I was one of the Kickstarter backers and still have to use my packs. Going to do this next week.
original Polacolor 108 and 3000 prints we're supposed to be wiped after you print the photo. I'm not sure what the wipe consisted of, but that might be part of why the color shifts after you take the shot.
In my modest opinion either Supersense plans on product automation and origami style packages or they are not going anywhere.
I have never used pock film but modern Polaroid film has a problem. The plastic border material falls apart when it get old. So old photos one has to take apart and clean. I am not sure if pack film has a similar problem.
Any recommendations on a good Land Camera to start off with? 100? 230? 250? etc?
Excellent overview of where we all are right now in the “not Fujifilm instant” story. Florian is a brilliant motivator and his passion has created a team of incredibly capable people, but he knows that ultimately the pack film project is doomed unless a large film and chemical company helps with the heavy lifting. You mentioned Ferrania and Ilford, but they are not the huge companies they once were and are slowly building up their user base again after nearly going under, but that is another story. I wish that Florian and his team had not gone for packfilm first, instead trying to re-create the 5x4 inch single sheet peel-apart, like new55. They probably would have got further with it by now. In my experience of instant imaging, I have seen that a great many users of instant materials are artists, who lift, stretch and manipulate their instant images, and the imperfection of the results don’t bother them at all. Maybe they are the ones to buy these very expensive materials, because right now, photographers are not lining up to buy it in its present form.
I'd love to support it but the cost of fuji instax and 35mm film and processing fees is already kind of expensive, and the cost of this in comparison is on another level.
Hi Noah, I have a question about my 103 Land camera... I got a new battery but may have the incorrect voltage? Is 4.5 V. okay to use in the 103 model, or must it be only 3.0 V - will 4.5 damage anything ? Thanks!!
one question, if you have a 504 holder for Hasselblad, the Mamiya universal ground-glass/pack holder, or a holder for 4x5" cameras (Linhof Technika/whista/chamonix), CAN this ONE INSTANT film go into them?, thereby restoring the use of these backs.
I have used it in my Polaroid back for the RB67 - so it should work for any back that supported pack film.
I'd be happy with sacrificing the peel apart aspect for more than one shot to be honest, but I know that'd be tricky to do.
Insanely underrated channel. Great video. My thoughts exactly. I am happy to see packfilm out there again (though I still have a few boxes of fp100c's left in my freezer that I stockpiled in 2015) I hope there'll be something better in time. One thing for sure, Fuji will never start producing packfilm again. Which is OK, I just wish they had been more open to helping the film community to find alternatives.
Liking all the pack film videos. I want to get my hand on some and make a video also!
Film Photography Project has some in stock. Theyre
selling it for around $70 bucks.
Just bought my first Polaroid pack film camera!
11: 39 Fujifilm did make 4x5 Black and white instant film. They evemn had a 4x5 holder PA-45
Fuji made 4x5 pack film (FP100C45, FP3000B45), but not the 4x5 single instant film that I’m talking about here, such as Polaroid Type 55, 59, etc which New55 makes.
Would there be a way to make an integral packfilm to at least keep the old cameras from being paperweights
What’s a good first camera that uses this film?
I'm hoping this will work for polaroid image transfers!
I worry about what the project will do once they run out of 20x24 Polaroid.
where to buy? I have a Polaroid model 403
I am trying out as many stocks on the same shot (still life) as I can and hope to add wet plate and direct positive paper to that mix. I just got around to trying the One Instant I received via Kickstarter. My gut reaction was “This would get a stellar rating if it were a high school science project.” As a material to do any kind of creative photography, it falls flat. The inconvenience, mess, poor results, and high cost are a non-starter. I have an Instax Option 8 back for my 4x5 that has to have the focus shifted to shoot since the film plane sits back from the ground glass. That inconvenience pales by comparison. I still hope that Supersense can continue on, but they have to do significantly better if the material is going to be viable.
Man I'm really bummed out. I only recently learned that polaroid cameras have all sorts of film types. I picked up a polaroid 250 land camera thinking that I could just go on amazon and get film for it. Only to discover that this one instant is literally the only option left.
Dang it. I just wanted to play with a film format I've never played with before. What a waste. I should have just stuck with 35mm.
What this project needs is a backer with very, very deep pockets and a love of film. Someone who is willing to "reinvent the wheel" if need be in order to produce a reliable and high quality product. Someone who might even buy out the project and Polaroid, combine both and give the pack film side something to build from a more established base. The problem with One Instant is they have no money and little base to build from. They don't have the technical resources to grow from where they are and cannot really innovate because of that. That being said, what they're doing is remarkable and admirable, but it's not going anywhere in a hurry, or even at a moderate pace. They're treading water and doing OK, but it's not going to go on like that indefinitely. Sooner, rather than later, they're going to find it increasingly difficult to keep on going and will come to the point of hitting that brick wall and they will, unfortunately, fold. I hope that doesn't happen, but as they're going along at present, I can't see any other possible future without a lot of input from someone coming along to boost their fortunes.
I have been very interested in this project,,, once they have the kinks worked out..I will give it a shot,,, hopefully more than one shot per pack.... IMO that is unacceptable...for the price,,,,now if they were using fresh negative,,, and not stuff expired a decade ago... I believe the results would be much more impressive,,the simple fact that Noah obviously isn’t happy about the product,, says volumes...
It's got to get better than what you are showing before I can purchase it. I'd rather support One Instant than the FP100 scalpers on ebay, but the product has got to get better. Thanks for sharing
One instant has surprisingly produced better results since this video but they just doubled the price of their film so it's hardly worth it any more
Thank you for the insight, this medium is definitely not for me in its current form, but fascinating nonetheless.
What the hell did Polaroid and Fuji do with the pack film chemistry manual? Did they just burn all of it?
For some of this stuff there's probably a big factor around availability of materials and changing regulations involving chemicals. Even then just manufacturing the necessary materials is a massive undertaking, certain Polaroid machines were junked after the company stopped production of pack films in the early 2000s and Fuji has likely decommissioned machinery of their own.
@@AnalogResurgence I am going to buy some of this stuff because I like to torture myself. I am going to keep my pack film cameras and hope for the best. Great video btw.
In the case of Polaroid I believe certain chemicals were outright banned so it's impossible to recreate the original formula for Polaroids and Packfilm. With Fuji they probably didn't understand why people would want to keep an old format alive when instax is making them so much money. It sucks but that's the reality of it. I've personally moved on from instant film and enjoy shooting 120 medium format
@@areallyrealisticguyd4333 I love it all. Just keep film alive I say.
Fuji has that info but hey doesn’t want a competitive product to their current film, Polaroid technical documents were probably lost to time
You can not say Fuji is not anymore in the instant business. They scrapped the machines so to not have competition to their Instax film. Would a competitor be out there, even if only producing packfilm, they could not charge the price they do now.
And we think roll film is expensive.! I left film behind in the 90s but using it again this past year and enjoying the proccess but still use digital, it's hard to reject the speed at which I'm able to transfer an image from my phone or desktop with wifi an see it pop out of my pro 200 half a minuet later.
As far as I can tell, New55 has been dead since 2017, no updates on their site since the 'cease production' message.
But what's interesting is there appear to be scattered remnants and recreations of all various parts of the peel apart package in different locations: One Instant have the negative and positive from Polarioid 20x24, and have modified pods from the '20x24 machine' (not clear if this is literally taking 20x24 pods and cutting them to length, or extracting 20x24 chemistry and inserting into new pods, or something else). Polaroid no-longer-originals still sell some 8x10 peelapart, but I'm not sure if their negatives, positives, and pods are just remnant old stock or if they have some short run manufacturing capability. New55 had (has?) pods they purchased from an unnamed supplier, and negative & positive of unknown origin (old stock? cut-down 20x24?) but potentially made themselves due to mentions in the defunct blog of a 'coating machine' (though this could have been for coating adhesive for the peelapart assembly, it's not entirely clear).
So we have:
- Old stock of negative and positive from 20x24, can be cut down to 100 size or 4x5
- Polaroid MAY be able to manufacture 8x10 sheets (which could be cut down), or it could be old stock
- Potentially New55 had cracked manufacture of new 4x5 stock (could be cut down to 100 size)
- Pods from 20x24 cut down or otherwise remanufactured for One Instant (100 size)
- Pods of unknown origin used by New55 (4x5 size)
- 8x10 pods from Polaroid, may be new manufacture or old stock
- Single-load 4x5 packages from New55
- Single-shot 100 series boxes from One Instant
It really feels like if all the disparate packfilm makers cooperated, there is the ability to manufacture new packfilm, as single shot packages for 100 series or 4x5, from new components.
The newer Polaroid 8x10 film is a re-engineered version of the original 8x10 stuff, so not old stock. It's now like a large integral film instead of how it used to be which was like a large peel apart film.
New55 reorganized themselves with one of the Co-founders I believe and has become New55PN. Their information can be found here: famousformat.com/category/new55-pn/
@@AnalogResurgence it still gets processed in the old 8x10 machines though, and can still be peeled apart. So although 'integral' (...ish, only the backside-viewed transparent positive is carried over from the integrated 'mini' version, there are still two discrete peelapart positive and negative plus a pod tucked under the front edge of the positive) there shound be an avenue for reduced width versions compatible with existing roller processors.
Looking through the FamousFormat blog, things are a bit more clear: FF/New55 now have the capability to manufacture pods, and to manufacture positives (unclear if their negatives are 'normal' CoTS negatives, or old stock).
@@edz44 I believe the new55 negatives are COTS, either Foma or Shanghai. The box for their "Atomic" film comes in looks like a Foma/Shanghai box. My first guess would be Foma, since they've been making 400 speed film for longer, but I know Shanghai has just started making 400 speed roll film, so perhaps they're also making it in 400 speed.
@@madscienti11 It says TMAX on the film rebate, at least for the 400 speed.
Will this film fit the old Polaroid 56a
I see if you order 6 films you get a free cold clip, but no info on what that is or how it is used! Help?
A cold clip is just an old polaroid accessory that's essentially two flat pieces of metal hinged at one end (with tape usually). In cold weather you put the cold clip in your pocket and when you've taken your polaroid/instant shot, you sandwich it between the metal pieces that have warmed up in your pocket. Very simple and just helps to keep your picture warm to aid in the chemical developing in cooler weather.
www.polaroidland.net/2012/01/17/instant-artifact-the-cold-clip-model-193/
Would this work on the impossible I 1?
No, that camera takes Polaroid 600 or i-Type film. This is packfilm which requires a different type of camera.
I know I'm late to the game but I picked up a Polaroid 220 at a thrift store the other day so I've been going down this packfilm rabbit hole a bit. I bought the camera mostly as a display piece - I pick up Polaroids whenever I see them and I have a Spectra so I'm not exactly a stranger to having Polaroid paperweights, but it's still a shame it's in such a sad state. I don't know if it's improved at all since this video was made but it hasn't gotten any more affordable and it's still sad to think that all of this is on a timer, using limited resources to create something that will expire in time.
I get that the results are unpredictable but they're also beautiful and special.
Business 101- supply vs demand....no demand= no supply. Instant Esoteric films have virtually 0 demand hence its death. If shooting film is what you want, save your $$ and get into medium format; at least the negatives and prints have a better archival life. Funny thing about analog is that in order for you to post it on instagram or FB, you have to digitize it!!
Did They closed?
It’s just so darn expensive. I wish I could afford to shoot it. I backed the Kickstarter but don’t dare shoot any because I’m so worried about messing one up. I try to be careful but one moment of inattention and that’s it … £20 down the drain.
The framed Meat Loaf LP tho :)
I would love for them to create more packfilm, but like you said, without the machines...
I have a huge stock of Polaroid in various formats. I also have boxes of Impossible Project, New55 and One Instant. Personally, I would love to see single-shot 4x5 film. Considering the popularity of Intrepid cameras, I think that there's a larg market there to supply that sort of film to LF users using the Polaroid backs. I used up my Polaroid 4x5, but still have some boxes of Fuji 4x5 pack film. That stuff was great. It was useful for making images and as a proofing tool on more complicated 4x5 shots. When I finally bought a digital camera I refused to consider Fuji cameras because of the way they approach their analog products. Horrible people.
I hope they come up with something I collect and sell cameras
instax film kinda works like pack film with the chemicle pack and all. id be cool if they can glue a tab to the back of that stuff and pull it thorough the rollers of pack film backs to use these obsolete cameras. to me its not the film that's important with the pagentry of that but getting the cameras working.
Fuji actually did make 4x5 packfilm back in the day
Do you think In The future that we would get 8 or 10 shots in a pack?
Not unless they find a better solution for their chemical pods. That seems to be the one of the big things holding them back. 8 or 10 just seems so unlikely in the near future because of how complex the assembly is as well.
@@AnalogResurgence if one instant is kinda successful I think maybe in about 6-10 years 8-10 shot pack film might, might just come back, that's if we're lucky 🍀🥺
I don’t understand why the start up company doesn’t break down the chemicals compounds of the the P7 film and have and idea to work with, still super cool though
They should sell a reusable/ loadable film cartridge, and sell the film separately. The film should come in a box similar to sheet film or photo paper, with instructions on how to load the cartridge in a dark bag.
Also for future production maybe they should try to work on understanding and developing their own material, instead of hoping someone else does it for them.
Currently one instant needs to stream line the production line and find ways to cut costs.
It's been a year since this video came out, the cost went up and there is no sign of a road map for the future. I don't really see buying this film as helping the pack film industry.
I'm mostly disappointed in Fuji though. They have the resources to put this stuff back into production but won't, and they won't license or distribute the plans on how to make it for other companies.
What if Florian was able to get at least blueprints to all those machines that manufacture all the old type of 10 pack origami style film? But then again that's probably a corporate secret.
The machinery for manufacturing pack film on that scale is likely massive and incredibly expensive. Like they didn’t build machines for Impossible Project, they were just lucky enough to save them. I think even if they had a LEGO set style instruction manual for those machines it would be beyond what they’re capable of haha
Likely lost by Polaroid years ago
@@AnalogResurgence You vastly underestimate what modern engineering can accomplish. As a mechanical engineer myself, I reckon with a dedicated engineering team a machine to make the modules could be fabricated in less than a year. At the end of the day it would be a glorified packaging machine, albeit more intricate. The problem with this really is that it would mean they would have to rump up production. A machine like that is not economic to run making a couple hundred rolls per year. They'd have to make thousands if not tens of thousands to cover the tooling & running costs. And from my understanding the market isnt really there, as this is a very niche thing, which is already pretty well exploited by the likes of Fuji and Polaroid. This is the underlying reason this is not a thing.
Has there been improvements since 1yr.
As far as I know the color film has not changed much and I believe it is currently unavailable to but. They have produced black and white film that I believe is improved but I have not used it.
I think the best use of this pack film is for test shots before you bust out a roll of film on a shoot. IMO this ain't your momma's fun and quick polaroids. One day this could turn into a bigger revival, but as long as professionals shoot film, this pack film will find a home.
The way you say 'about' makes me think you are Canadian.
Are you?
Greetings from Germany
I am!
THEY DO IT IN THE DARK WITH NIGHT VISION GOGGLES?
You’d thing the IR illumination would affect the film.
What should happen (but probably will not) is for them to team up with a company such as Kodak who has produced instant film in the past.
They need to find a company such as Kodak who has experience, equipment and some cash to improve and move forward.
Soo sad. I'm an original impossible pioneer member(still have my neat aluminum card!)and realistically I can say this format is dead. I have 20 packs of fp100c left. It is precious to me and I'll be shooting for years to come.
But...honestly, for price and reliability roll film is a better bet. Alot of b/w roll film I have bought has been viable, with at least 60% of rolls producing multiple images. That horrible carcinogen chemical soup just stands up better.....also, I've had good luck with old polaroid 679 packfilm...
It's done....I mean look what happened to impossible. They just dropped spectra...WHAT! It isn't what it was. The people that revived the film are now discontinuing it...
How much longer do ya think sx70 film will be available. Within two years it'll be 600 with a nd filter... Mark my words...
The only option is a fuji partnership making new integral film that works in packfilm cameras. An origami pack of instax....but guess what. Not gonna happen
Worth noting is that New55 first gen was based on a partnership with 20x24 who unexpectedly jumped out of the ship. This almost killed New55 that only survived thanks to Sam Hiser’s tenacity. A silver lining for New55 2nd gen has been the internalization of pods production. Finding new film shouldn’t be an issue for OneInstant as far as the consumer is ok with the price. The pod, reagent inside and paper seem more complex parts to drive a true step-up in quality. Right now I believe more in New55 project as OneInstant relies too much on an unreliable partner supplying outdated components.
20x24 did not jump ship. We had some serious disagreements about product supply and decided it best to go our separate ways.
I wish the pack film is back! still keeping 2 backs- 1 large format and 1 for medium format.
Aight ima head to a new dimension where Polaroid never closed
Why wouldn't they make it the origami cartridges?
They’ve stated that it’s too difficult to recreate that kind of packaging with the limited resources that they have.
@@AnalogResurgence yeah, if only fuji or Polaroid didn't scrap all those machines. Hopefully they can make it somewhat cheaper for the folks who don't wanna spend like 60 bucks for 3 shots
Also like come on Fuji film you’re not gonna use the fp 100 c machine just let us use them
I put thousands of dollars paying Impossible Project films even if at beginning the results were mediocre. I'm not ready to do that for pack film. I wish the best luck to One Instant and New 55 that is not good either. Polaroid could get back because every family had a Polaroid camera home. This is not the case with Peel Camera. Because of that I think Peel Camera are dead. It's sad but not all film format is going to survive.
Bunch of looser CEO´s at Fuji, claiming that they love "images" but don't want that pack film is produced by someone who is willing to do it outside of the CEO bonus payments. I follow the one instant project from the beginning and it left me puzzled. Just sell the machines and get a 2-3$ fee per sold pack for the license.
A lot of people online have been speculating that the machines were destroyed by the time Doc asked for them.
Funny how we can't make a product that the boomers could produce by the boxcar load before breakfast.
We have become a cargo cult.
Someone could research the patent for the machines that made the fuji pack film and use said patent to rebuild the machines... presto more pack film!!!
The problem of course is the money and resources for something like that. Those machines aren’t small or cheap and the pack film market isn’t big enough to simply support a massive investment. It’s also not just rebuild a machine, but also restart production for a variety of components necessary for the format. Finding a way to create this stuff on a small scale is what they’re attempting to do.
Too bad it's so god damn expensive. Otherwise I'd give it a shot
Analog Quixote
So they cut up soemthing even more rare to make film that you still can buy second hand. The shamless part is, they tell you they make it to save packfilm when in fact they make it only and alone for the money.
One instant was a huge disappointments and missed opportunity for me
Passion is worth nothing without knowledge. If they dont manage even to have a tape not sticking like hell, they have no idea. They simply cut up larger format polaroid film.
I am not interested at all in manufacturier produced film. I was spoiled with the quality and price of industrial products.