The Last of the Game of Thrones Hot Takes
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2019
- Power doesn't corrupt; power reveals.
Part 1 is here: • We Need to Talk About ...
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Twitter - @thelindsayellis
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For my own reference:
Sansa - 4:38
Bronn - 11:37
Varys - 14:04
Jon - 20:29
Tyrion - 26:41
Jaime - 33:15
Cersei - 38:38
Daenerys - 46:15
For my own reference 50:20
For my own reference
I need to get milk next time I go to the store.
Audrey Dozeman
Excellent playlist Audrey! AMAZING! Kudos to Lindsay for pinning this! A heart would be great too of course, but no pressure 🙂
I need timestamp for Lindsay
Audrey Dozeman Thank you. :)
Lena Headey got paid to look out a window and smugly drink wine and honestly, life goals
Taylor B
It was the appropriate reaction to the second half of this show.
Believe me, we all drank our way through the end
she'll probably win an Emmy for it, too. what a legend
(seriously, though, she deserves it for all the previous years she got snubbed)
AlinzPark The Emmys are gonna be an absolute mess this year but if Amy Adams wins for Sharp Objects Game of Thrones can win every category it’s nominated for and I won’t be mad
@@apullcan
Lena 4ever.
“...When she reveals that she’s actually SUPER HITLER - the Hitler that flies!!!!!”
Yes. This.
That made me laugh so much.
I almost starting cry laughing, it was so good
Dude! Spoilers!!
Best line in the video
D&D - time to end this shixshow. We going to Disney World!
For perspective on Jaime’s lack of a self discovery arc: Imagine if Zuko went back to the fire lord to die with the fire nation for no reason
Christ what a failure
I actually binged watched Avatar and GoT these past couple of weeks, (just had a baby, all we can do is stream). The Juxtaposition of the Nickelodeon show outdoing the HBO crown jewel was amazing. When Azula gets named Fire Lord after all her wicked deeds, and her last image is crying and laughing as she's basically gone insane and can't function anymore after achieving her life long goal.
Then you look at Cersei, who is just kinda there. Nothing really bad happens to her, except she dies. All her backstabbing and conniving gets her essentially what she wants. She doesn't even display much emotion when her last child dies. Imagine if Jamie would've returned to her just to see her frothing at the mouth trying to burn down the city like the Mad King, because she refused to lose to Danny.
zuko did go back to them tho and it was really annoying. they already started to set up his arc and then halfway through the show they just stalled it and then i just had to sit and wait for the inevitable moment when he joins the right side again. it was my least fav thing about watching avatar (which i only did recently after recommendation by a friend)
@@likeastarbaby I’d argue it wasn’t annoying at all, I think it was exactly what he needed to do in order to provide contrast for his experience abroad. He hadn’t been in the fire nation for a long time and he could see the hypocrisy firsthand. The end of season 2 was too soon for him to make that kind of earth-shattering realization
@@likeastarbaby that's exactly what makes it so good tho? The fact that they set up his arc but then he fell back. It's not linear, it's real, people make mistakes. If he never went back, it would have been his biggest what-if. But he went back, realized it was a mistake and he went back out there with a bigger determination. I'd argue its like Jaime going back TO King's Landing after being kidnapped and traveling with Brienne, and then realizing Cersei didn't really care and the right thing was to fight with the north.
So, the correct analogy would have been is Zuko came back to his family and died for them after joining the GAang, like right after reuniting with uncle Iroh 💀
i'm so friggin mad they brought up the "whenever a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin" thing regarding Daenerys, when it's already made clear thematically in the first book that "the bad coin" was her brother, Viserys. She is FINE, goddamit.
But, alas, I forgot, themes are only for 8th graders, so it's clearly too advanced for DnD to get that.
Not to mention so many Targaryens weren't actually "mad". Like five were, max.
@@made-line7627 This.
@@made-line7627The whole "Targaryen madness" thing was Robertine propaganda which the maesters helped perpetuate because they were scared and resentful of the Targaryens
@@boozecruiser Most likely!
It’s pretty much guaranteed that Dany is going to burn Kings Landing in the books. Maybe when fighting against Aegon rather than Cersei.
GoT fans: Why does it hurt so much???
Lindsay: Because it was real
😂 Nice reference
10/10
Because it was reeeeaaallll
When big money goes bad
*was* real...ain’t anymore!
Well on the plus side, the number of people insisting that I had to watch GoT has dropped from everyone to nobody.
You can always watch breaking bad :D
the song of fire and ice books are pretty good too
Same.
Agreed don't watch, read the books.
Joey Shears when GRRM finishes them I’ll read them.
@@JasperJanssen fair enough. Enjoy.
I'm years late to this take, but... Sansa's character arc honestly feels like a tragedy, of a once smart, gentle young girl being forced through trauma until she loses all of her kindness and just becomes emotionless and cynical. But instead it's supposed to be empowering?
Depressing, isn't it?
Honestly in a much better handled story that tragedy would also make both her and aryas immediate distrust and paranoia concerning dany make so much more sense, becoming hypervigilant because of having suffered at the hands of strangers who initially were presented to them as people they should trust - but nope, we had to make them unambiguous badasses so now their distrust for dany just seems like weird, girlboss "f#ck you, got mine" attitude instead of anything compelling - like I wanted to rip my eyes out when sansa had that conversation at the feast with the hound where she legit frames her past abuse and abusers not as something she overcame but people who "taught" her how to be strong - it's just such an insulting way to handle trauma
It’s literally the complete opposite of what her arc is in the books. Her life becomes a horror show, but despite all the cruelty done to her and her family, she still believes that there’s heroes in the world & that goodness will win in the end
Yup. Hers was a story of a strong girl being broken by a cruel world, only to turn out like them in the end. While relatable, it is by no means "empowering."
@@herloss448 That is literally her character in earlier seasons once she has a chance to learn.
Game of Thrones isn’t going to be remembered for its bad ending. It’s worse than that. It’s going to be forgotten because of its bad ending.
..Yeah
that's what hurts the most.
The actors, writers THAT AREN'T D&D, and costume and set designers, the brilliant composer, the conlang teacher and everyone else had years, almost a decade of their time and effort SQUANDERED by two little pricks convinced they knew best
@@RozWBrazel I'm entirely convinced that even in the early seasons the whole team got sore backs from carrying the show while D&D were getting drunk and horny leering at the actresses that play sex workers.
I can't think of another piece of media in my lifetime that has gone from so culturally dominant to so completely irrelevant so fast, or maybe even at all.
@@GaryDunion Lost comes to mind.
“She kinda forgot” is the most pathetic excuse for a plot hole i have ever heard
Actually is the one it is truth, cause when a character forgett something big like that, it only mens that the writer forgett it XD
Minlow Yeah. That character whose actions are completely dependent on my whims acted in a way that defied logic, but coincidentally adhered to the way I intended the narrative to go.
Totally natural. Totally in character.
He meant "I kinda forgot" but since that sounds bad so he went with "She kinda forgot" which I think is actually worse than if he was honest about it.
@@toribiogubert7729 Not necessarily.
Stephen King has Jack Torrance forgetting his caretaker duties in the Overlook as the hotel slowly takes over his mind.
Including SPOILERS checking the boiler in the basement - which explodes and burns down the hotel.
By that point, audience has forgotten about it as well and it comes as a twist which was hiding in the plain sight.
Those chucklefucks are not Stephen King.
@@d3nza482Well I know I've said it in a broader sense, but it was justo a joke. Of course character can forgett things and it do not mean a plot hole, not always at least.
I especially like what you said about Sansa and how women empowerment is always women being devoid of emotions. I've always hated that trope.
Pan Mantequilla It’s that and usually knocking other characters (usually men) down. Sansa, for example, only seems to outplay Tyrion because he’s taken an abrupt turn into dimwitsville, not because she’s been paying close attention to him and his mannerisms and figured out how to properly manipulate him, something that takes *time.* She simply outwitted him because he’s suddenly a moron.
Speaking frankly, if you’re a woman and you’re being told that the only reason you can do something as well as your male counterpart is because he’s suddenly become blisteringly incompetent? You should be feeling insulted.
When you build a character up by knocking another down, you rob people’s investment in both characters; they resent the former for “cheating,” and they lament the latter over their unfair treatment.
When Sansa called herself a "stewwwwpid little girl", we were apparently supposed to be agreeing with her all along because that was D&D's cue to make her over into their soulless cookie-cutter ~badass~
This idea of women's empowerment via the loss of their humanity is actually sexist both ways. In a story like this, it's supposed to mean something when women can match or even surpass men in the things they're supposed to excel at. But by stripping the female characters of their kindness and compassion and essentially turning them into soulless killing machines, it has this underlying message that strong male characters are defined by their ruthlessness and lack of compassion, instead of, you know, their honor or ability to put the needs of others in front of their own. Things that Jon Snow had, which the showrunners also ignored because they were inconvenient to the plot.
@@ManiaMac1613 Yup. Jon and Sansa both had compassion but D&D "kinda forgot" compassion was a good quality and made Sansa an emotionless jerk.
As cheesy as "power of love/family/friendship" is, it really is quite powerful
The ending of Game of Thrones honestly shows a masterclass in actor professionalism. You can see in the faces of several of the actors during the read-through along with other comments they've made after the fact (see Emilia Clarke's "best season ever!" joke) that they did not agree with the ending either, or the way their characters went. And yet, they still delivered incredibly moving, beautiful performances with the material they were given. As Lindsay hashes on during the video, that Tyrion quote about hypocritical belief in Daenerys is some of the dumbest shit to be written on the show, and yet Dinklage delivers it with such sincerity and authenticity that it almost made me agree with him.
You know I never really thought about that before. I'm shocked by the level of professionalism these actors had. It's really incredible.
it honestly reminds me of rise of skywalker lol
@@Spider-Man_234Oscar Isaac served up "somehow Palpatine's returned" the absolute best he could.
@@jackdanielsinthelionsden1887 You could see that man dying inside. 🤣
I wonder if there's a way to recut the end and remove some scenes to fix it...
The fact that we never see Theon find out that Ramsay was killed sums up the way D&D felt about character development.
Or Yara even cared that Theon is dead, you know, a guy she left to die who later saved her life.
@@nont18411 In fairness to Yara she engaged in a special mission at risk to herself to try to save Theon but by that point Ramsay had messed with his head too much.
She decides to make it personal... by not capturing and destroying Cersei, but slaughtering innocents that Cersei couldn't care less about.
She hatefully stares on the Red Keep where she knows Cersei hides but decide to burn literally everything around it. She decides to make it so personal she does everything she can to avoid the only person she is after. Makes total sense.
@@keay.8085
She was very sportingly giving Cersei a good chance to escape by attacking the opposite side of the city.
The funniest thing is that Cersei could run away while Dany was busy burning everyone but her direct enemy Cersei.
Yup, especially when she saw the Red Keep and flew there to burn it along with Cersei. And when she was halfway there, she decided to change course and fly around burning the entirety of King's Landing for 30 min? That's clearly D&D subverting expectations there. Absurd writing. Also her POV disappears for the rest of the episode.
Everytime i hear this sentence from this moron it makes me more angry.
They should have considered that the best show runners would be the ones who didn’t want to run the show.
Dang, that´s a good one. How have I not heard this before.
the last two seasons felt like they had showrunners who didn't want to run this show (anymore)
Too bad Rian Johnson got there before them.
Actually that makes perfect sense, because clearly they didn't want to run this show, butfelt entitled to it BECAUSE the didn't want to!
You just won the internet.
THIS MAN REALLY SAID "There is something kinda chilling about her reaction to Varys dying" AS IF DANY WASN'T A 14 YEAR OLD CHILD BRIDE SOLD FOR AN ARMY OF DOTHRAKIS FOR THE CHANCE OF GETTING THE THRONE AGAIN. WHO HE CONSTANTLY MISTREATED. IT REALLY MAKES YOU THINK.
I remember in one scene, where Viserys literally said that he’d let thousands of Dothraki rape Dany if it meant he was gonna be king-yeah, I’d probably be watching gleefully when he gets his golden “crown”.
Honestly shocked she didn’t pour the kettle herself
Varys also tried to have her killed, multiple times
She isn't 14 in the show. We're talking about the show here, not the books.
@@HOTD108_o? doesn't make what he said about dany's reaction any less dumb lol.
Tyrion in the books: "I will choke the life out of Cersei with my own hands and drown Westeros in blood and fire"
Tyrion in the show: "She is just a girl and she's scared"
Also Tyrion in the show: I don’t want to hurt our family I never did!
Also also Tyrion in the show: (literally shoots his father with a crossbow on the toilet)
They made Tyrion a saint when he's supposed to be a sinner, the devil on Dany's shoulder.
The sheer amount of chances cersei got in the final hour of the show is the most frustrating things about it ; other than daenerys’ (literal and figurative) character assassination
@@jaysax7381 Seriously, Cersei kinda overstayed her welcome. There's a reason it's joked so much that Lena Headey got paid lots of money to sit around and drink wine for the final two seasons.
Bran : I'm the three eyed raven
Everyone in contention for the throne : I'm losing to a bird !
@Acetylsalicilique i believe I love you
Magnificent reference
You are my favorite person
Love the reference 😂😂
Well, technically birds are dinosaurs.
"She's just a girl and she's scared" she's a 40+ years old woman who's lived through wars and sieges and more. Holy shit that's THE most insulting line that one could say about Cersei.
Book Cersei would send someone to Qyburn’s Yell-Cellar for that sort of implication.
Not only insulting but inaccurate. Of course it's natural for anybody to be afraid, but Cersei would either try to take everyone down with her (blowing up the city with wildfire), be delusional in thinking she'd be ransomed or not meet a well deserved end, or simply take solace in the fact that several people in the city she hates will die too. Being afraid and helpless is the last thing she'd do, mostly because she despises those qualities
@@skibobshipoddlypop very true. Honestly I'm not the type to make everything about gender but just imagine if it was Jaime in that scene, no way would they go "somehow he's just a boy" at him, like that one part particularly irked me. She's a grown woman experienced in so much conflict, fear of death shouldn't strip away her entire character.
one day you will be introduced to irony more formally?
@@FloppsEB it's not really ironic though. She never claims that she wouldn't be afraid, nor would anyone expect her to be swinging a sword and demanding they let the attackers come try to take her alive, it's just underwhelming. Because Cersei is such a rich character and so unbelievably full of poison, which is quite an accomplishment for the show, her crying and being scared is of course reasonable, and prefect plausible, but it's just not as satisfying as the Cersei we've come to know, who we would fully expect to blow up the entire city along with herself just to spite the attacker. If it was Robert crying as the city was besieged that might be ironic, Cersei inherited it without wanting to, and gave it up relatively easy for someone who would every ounce of conceivable willpower to avoid screaming if burned alive to rob you of the satisfaction. It's like Arya killing the Whitest Walker with a pretty simple dagger trick, it's not impossible but it's the least rewarding way for that story to have played out
D&D totally missed the point of Arya’s character arc in the books. Arya giving up her entire identity and losing any sense of who she even is as a person in order to become a badass assassin is actually cool and awesome and it has no negative side effects. I hate how the show cut out a lot of the moments of Arya showing kindness to random people and the psychological trauma she goes through during her faceless man training and instead goes all in on the badass murdering aspect. Arya’s arc in the books is a deconstruction of the typical fantasy revenge story and shows how self destructive allowing revenge to consume you actually is. The moment when Arya says “a girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell and I’m going home” is supposed to be her deciding that her family is more important to her than her quest for revenge. In the show when Arya gets back to Westeros she is just a snarky murder machine who is still obsessed with revenge. She didn’t actually go through any progression as a person beyond learning how to kill better and that’s why her character just falls flat for me. D&D abandoned any sort of nuanced character progression and instead just made Arya a badass killer who does epic murders to get people watching the show in bars to cheer.
Her revenge quest also never costs her anything. Like if they knew they were gonna set up the Hound convincing her to abandon her list to preserve her humanity, they should've foreshadowed it by having her pursuit of revenge end up hurting her somehow later on. Like maybe she missed the Long Night battle to kill Cersei and someone she cares about dies and doesn't get Cersei.
@@jessArcade The problem is, the Hound convinces her WAYYYY TOOOO LATE.
Several people on her list we have never heard from them again, and its either that Arya killed them off screen (lazy) or they kinda forgot about them (LAZY).
And basically she had only a person left on the list (save from the Hound who she liked now) and destroyed a house of dozens of members if not hundreds! (Walder Frey is known for his magic rod after all)
Exactly this, but with Bran also.
Like, they kept all of the weird, sinister implications of the Three Eyed Raven, and then just ignored them. It was supposed to be a deconstruction of the fantasy trope of cool magic mentor and instead highlight how power and a preset destiny being thrust upon a child is a very dangerous and unpleasant thing, but nope, Bran is just a cool psychic tree guy now (that doesn't ever do anything)! Yeah, sure, it kind of seemed like the Three Eyed Raven was trying to steal his body and take over Westeros and maaaybeee that's what happened here and Westeros might be under the rule of an eldritch, omniscient being, but like... let's ignore that! He's a cool tree-person now who can rule the kingdom!
it comes down to D&D not understanding what "subversion of expectations" in regards to GOT actually means. They put in all these twists and character progressions that made no sense, but then dropped all of the ACTUAL subversion of classic fantasy tropes.
I would add that Arya is I think 12 in the books? Maybe younger? Her being a super cool bad ass assassin isn't framed as a good thing. She doesn't kill that much in the books. Arya's arc in the books is definitely preoccupied with death and trauma and revenge, but it's never framed as though she's being empowered. In fact, it shows the opposite: she's being isolated. And this is even more interesting because it implies that Martin doesn't see the ability to kill here as empowering, or else, if he does, that ability isn't necessarily a good sort of empowerment. Arya is just lonely and sad and bitter. Dareon, that singer dude she kills? Did he deserve to die? Should she have been the one to kill him? She's not "good" in the books. She's lost.
That’s probably cause there’s no Lady Stoneheart in the show, in the books she’s basically leading a campaign with the brotherhood without banners to get revenge against Lord Frey
Yes, how chilling it was when Daenerys watched on as her own brother died right in front of her. The same brother who had psychically/ sexually abused and traumatized her for years. The same brother who should have protected her but instead sold her to a barbarian war-lord famous for raping and pillaging- in exchange for a small army. So what that he’d just held a sword to her stomach and threatened to carve her unborn child out of it because the man he sold her to hadn’t paid for her in full yet! The real monster here is HER because she didn’t cry! How did we miss the signs?!
I mean, that wasn't one of the signs IMO. The real signs were all those times she said she wanted to burn everyone who stood in her way and her advisors were like hey, maybe fire should be at least solution number 2, ya know?
@@BabaCorva yeah but as Lindsay stated in the Dany section, that was only against her enemies and people of equal military might as well as when reason demanded it so.
Daenerys wasn’t always compassionate but she still made rational decisions, negative or positive, and her ruthlessness extended to her enemies and only her enemies, never innocent people.
And that ruthlessness is something that many other characters also dish out to their enemies. You can’t have this medieval war time code that all other characters live by and then in the last three episodes have everyone all of sudden get concerned with the cost of war.
@@BabaCorvawho were these innocent people who just wanted to stand in her way?
Miri max duur? Who killed her husband and child? Problematic decision for Dany but not anymore so then Jon killing Oli.
Doreah and Xaro? Betrayed her and killed her friend.
Kraznys and the masters? LITERAL slaver master who have done unthinkable things to babies and innocent people.
163 great masters? LITERAL slave masters who crucified CHILDREN.
The khals? Who would have done worse to her if she hadnt protected herself. Also are rapists and kill each other all the time.
More slavers? Who wouldnt live in a slave free world
Lannister soldiers? Because this is war and soldiers die everywhere. How many men has Jon, tyrion, jamie killed in war?
The Tarlys? The ones who betrayed Olenna tyrell who they were sworn too, which resulted in her death. Not much different from Jon beheading Janos slynt for not listening to his commands, even after he’s changed his mind. She gave them a choice.
And then the bells happened… where she killed thousands of innocent women and chidlren.
So which one of those was the signs? Was it the slavers, rapists or soldiers who chose to die after betraying the woman they were sworn too?
.@@dylansmithers3224
Yes. Found it so damn laughable how the showrunners tried to frame this particular moment as foreshadowing in their commentary. By that logic Sansa, Arya and Tyrion were also foreshadowed to be mad. Tyrion kills his own abusive father without regret, Sansa feeds her husband and tormentor to dogs (also sheds no tears when her crazy aunt is killed infront of her), Arya avenges the death of her mother and brother by carving people into pies and having their father eat them. All of that is fine and justified BUT when Dany appears emotionless when her abusive shithead of a brother gets himself killed, now "watch out, this girl might be mad". Bruh! If you try to force your foreshadowing into previous scenes, then pick better ones and stop holding Dany up to some weird standard you don't hold others for.
They are even more blatant about that later when they be like "oh Dany is turning eeeevil cuz she executed enemies who refused her offer of surrender... even though she's basically doing standard practises for this universe, even though other 'heroic' characters have done similar or worse but they are cool and righteous". Ugh! Like, I never was against the Mad Queen plot and was in fact anticipating it long before S8. My beef is not with Dany turning mad but the WAY they did it. Just so frustratingly bad that it actually made me feel sorry for Dany (and Emilia). All the unfair treatment and rushed/forced character progression when, in capable hands, we could have had such a juicy story instead.
"Because to D&D, female empowerment is shedding your humanity until you are a stone cold badass"
**standing ovation** A little louder for those crap writers in the back! I'm sick of the so-called strong female stereotype. Female characters deserve much better.
Could not agree more. Far too often we see an attempt at representing/appeasing women, only to be left with half baked, over the top and - more often than not - cringy stereotypes.
Pay attention to how these people describe their characters, there's a reason 'strong, independent woman' is a meme at this point, more often than not when they describe their female characters this way it's a warning sign that they plan to write the most boring overused type of character in the modern era.
Why don't they describe their female characters as nurturing, wise, cunning, intelligent, foolish, lustful, envious, patient, driven or any number of other descriptors. The answer is that if they are any of these things in the film/tv series/game being made it's a fortunate accident, the writers were too busy trying to make an empty shell that simply succeeds at every task with a quip or two at most until the plot demands that they fail in a way that never forces them to grow into something resembling an actual character.
I was about to ask "so what does a strong woman look like?" but I guess if we de-sex it, we can simply ask what a strong *person* looks like, so we neither fall to toxic masculinity tropes or female stereotypes e.g. The Mother/The Bitch etc
Speaking of actual D&D, my long term campaign had my friend Julia’s character, Savvy, end up with the empowering story of getting the Book of Exalted Deeds (an artifact of extreme power that you lose attunement to if you don’t strive to do good, and perform at least one charitable act a day), save the world and get married to her girlfriend. Which I feel is a much nicer story.
Hayao Miyazaki is still the best female characters writer.
i think one of the bigest insults to female characters in the series was the treatment of brienne who after being teased by men all her life builds a bromantic relationship with jamie only to have him give her pity sex then abandon her in the same night.
To think some people spun that as "But she strong don't need no man!" Context, folks.
Damn. That's like blatantly demeaning now that I think about it😂
I loved their relationship in the book. That's why I never got into the show.
and her then being distraught when he leaves? She should have been like 'you off, one hand? I assumed you were up from all the clanking. Not the only deadweight on you, if you get my drift. Off back to your sister? You are a total fuck up and you know perfectly well I could hunt you down like a dog, if I wanted, but like, I've got some tax forms to do and also Podrick's starting a podcast. See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya!'
He didn't leave her the same night. They spend many nights together. But yeah, I agree... Jaime and Brienne were so good in ep 2, and then they ruined Jaime.
Imagine someone assassinated the president, and now you're watching the trial live. They're asked how they plead, and they just say "Danny Devito should be president" and everyone listens???
Edit: On further thinking, Danny Devito actually makes sense. Imagine they say that yodelling kid from a few years ago should be president instead, that's the level of half remembered obscurity we're talking about here. No non-Starks at that meeting should give a single shit about Bran
I'd listen to him too, the world would be a better place if he was president.
i mean i would
He is like, the best candidate for presidency.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
We're all admitting it wouldn't be the worst system. Comparatively.
“The best ruler is someone who doesn’t want to rule”
Ah yes, the most successful king in French history, Louis XVI. Nothing bad ever happened because of him.
not to mention in this ASOIAF universe Aegon the second (in HOTD) doesnt wanted to rule either he was crowned by his mother and grandfather he never ever wanted the throne but still he was a terrible king
@@tariizm1500 Or Robert.
@@judeconnor-macintyre9874it’s funny because I have seen people argue that Robert was a good king because the realm was fairly prosperous and stable under him. But like… most of the stuff that happens in ASOIAF is either A) a direct consequence of a decision he made (like sending an assassin after Dany when he heard about her marriage) or B) an unintended side effect of his incompetence (like all the shenanigans the Lannisters get up to under his nose or how Little Finger gets the crown completely indebted because Robert doesn’t care about finances). The only reason why his reign was stable is because it was the calm before the storm. Then he died right before the shit could hit the fan and somehow none of it is his fault anymore. Good king my ass. 😤
@@Misa.misatoRobert was a bad king. Jon Arryn carried him.
@@Misa.misatowe as readers and those who were close to the throne knew that he was a bad king but for smallfolk he was probably the best one (some even think that Aerys would be better than the ones they have after Robbert). So yeah, I can definitely see why this argument is made
"But your Grace, what about the Geneva conventions?"
Favorite line
Jason that was hilarious 😂
That one's great but I think it's trumped by 57:31 'They both failed geography.'
Mine is ".... she's Superhitler! A Hitler that flieeees!"
"Lord Advisor: I must warn you, that you are not of the order of the Red God, and you do not see the Future. And, that matter about Geneva Convention is in the future, and furthermore will be largely ignored by the victors of that time in history, who may become the losers of the future owing to their fondness for Power." ...Is the counter-speech I would put in her mouth, in reply to such an odd and out-of-universe surreal remark.
@@zlozlozlo YOU'RE GONNA HEAR ME ROAAAAAAAAAR
D&D's thesis seems to be: "abolishing slavery leads to fascism".
What a thesis to pitch in 2019...
"Sure, slavery was bad, but you know what the real evil of the Civil War was? The eeeevil federal government trying to impose its will on the states!"
@@ricstubbs6802 Holy shit that's actually it, isn't it? I wonder if D&D are libertarians?
@@ricstubbs6802 don't try to project American history on a TV show, game of thrones is an global phenomenon and the us wasn't the only place that had slavery. Many places, still have slavery unfortunately
But the showrunners are from the U.S.
First she came for the slavers, murderers and rapists...
so yeah, it was pretty unexpected that she suddenly decided to kill innocent people.
D n' D, you understand that's not what the poem is about right?
"First they came for the Nazis, and I didn't speak up because _fair enough_ "
@@s.g.7572I just want to add that the german original goes something like "When the Nazis came for" which makes this extra funny
It kinda fucks me up that the show runners seem to believe that it's unacceptable to react negatively to trauma. There are multiple points where they express this, but that they explicitly said "dany was okay with her abuser dying, and that's bad!" Is eugh.
It's called character and virtue? If you are waiting to kill your "abuser" you aren't a good person you are just powerless
That being said revenge is a worthy goal but it's not the most noble or virtuous, to not seek revenge is more moral and to truly forgive is the most noble thing there is
Dany was justified in what she did in the world of GOT but in our world and society she killed her brother
@@PodreyJenkin138 I mean technically she didn’t kill Viserys, Drogo did, but for the sake of the argument let’s say that she did. Dany put up with her brothers abuse her entire life but never planned any retribution against him, even when she had the power to do so.
It wasn’t until Viserys threatened to murder her unborn child that harm came upon him and at that point it’s not even revenge but self defense as well as protecting an unborn baby from a psycho.
Even in our world and society, I know that many people would see Dany killing Viserys as justifiable and I know that because it has already happened numerous times with abuse victims getting acquitted in court after killing their abuser in verified self defense.
Now if we were talking about what Sansa did to Ramsay then your argument would hold water but in this instance it doesn’t.
It is a little sad when writers think the only way female characters can rise the the "badassery" standards of men, particularly men of action, is by turning them into stone-cold, hardened killers with little compassion. Men of action are allowed to be romantic, compassionate, sarcastic, witty, kind, and generous, but women of action must be tough, stony, brooding, and calculating. Why can't women of action also be romantic, sarcastic, witty compassionate, etc etc? Feminine and strong are not antonyms, they can coexist in the same body.
This is why I loved mid-series Sansa. It ALWAYS angered me that Arya was seen as the badass and Sansa was always regarded as the whiny wanna-be princess (yes, she was annoying in S1 but Arya was naïve in S1 and no one seemed to be bothered by that).
Cuz these dudes were in charge of a show that went on for 10 years and had almost 0 women directors and 0 non-white directors and then ended with dark-skinned foreigners terrorizing the poor white folk like human orcs
Uh, Brienne? Badass, noble,kind and honorable? Maybe Caitlyn? A strong, staunch mother who was entirely devoted to her family, kindly, feminine and compassionate? What about Asha? Taken in by a different culture, whom mothered, protected and looked after Bram and Rickon ; who was very kind, compassionate Or how about the literal most badass sarcastic,witty and devoted fuckin woman in the whole damn show, Olenna Tyrelle?
The women of game of thrones were far FAR more exceptional than the men of the show, showing usually a broader range of emotions, motives, a plethora of personalities that wasn't 'brooding war hero' or 'intellectual but athletically compromised' .
idk if we watched the same show, but it's a very bad argument. Yeah GOT Season 8 was a shitshow, but there was some amazing women in the cast. Not ever woman has to be some pillar of nobility, but to imply all women in GOT were heartlesss monsters is grossly wrong.
@@blacksesamecandies And they needed all those characters, too. Should have had Brienne die of Syphilis, after what they did to her season 8 arc. Lady Stoneheart wasn't added in.
Sansa in the books is all those things--my absolute favorite character. Such strength within herself.
Olenna Tyrell did not die so that Bronn could sit his ass at her castle and rule Highgarden
BlueFlowwer : Lord Bronn announces - Hereon and forthwith to be known as -> *H0Garden.*
@Anjelica Snorcket I also hate how Loras was the only heir when in the books his two older brothers Willas and Garland were before him.
@Anjelica Snorcket The show's issue is that they try to show houses going extinct but like Lindsey said, there are many other houses in the Reach that could take over Highgraden. The North has its lower houses like Mormont and Manderly that support its liege lords (House Stark) And so do all of the other Kingdoms. If House Tyrell really went extinct in the show then the lower houses in the Reach should be debating or at war over who gets to rule Highgraden. Bronn has no ties.
@Anjelica Snorcket How does a Bastard who has no inkling of a royal upbringing, or any idea how royal court even works, or how to RULE for that matter becomes the new lord and heir to the Baratheon name? Seriously, were D&D even thinking this when they decided "oh we're gonna make a bastard who also happens to be a bastard of an extinct house, and has no idea how lordship even works become lord of Storms End." I seriously give up with these Bozos.
@Anjelica Snorcket In the Books, Margery and Loras have an older brother who still resides in Highgraden. So if it consoles you, In the book, even if Margery and Loras die, House Tyrell won't go extinct.
When they made Sansa say that terrible line about being a little bird all her life if not for all the rapes, I wanted the Hound to say, “what are you now?” And then show Sansa experiencing daily PTSD symptoms and grieving the gentle, hopeful person that she once was.
That's asking too much from hacks like Benioff and Weiss.
@@jbvader721ikr 💯
Oof, that would have been so amazing to watch. Can you imagine what Sophie Turner could have done with a script like that? Damn
It's such a bad line too because she was already so smart and so good at manipulating Joffrey. She was never going to be just some meek little bird. She only pretended to be so that she could survive.
If she'd stayed married to Tyrion they likely would have become the power couple of the realm once she came into adulthood.
She survived everything because she was a strong person with a strong will, who always took care of herself, and looked out for others.
She risked herself to save the drunk knight, warned Margery about Joffrey's cruelty, lead the noble women in prayers when Cersei failed them.
Ramsey snuffed that kindness out, and I hate to see that treated as a good thing. Her becoming like him is 100% a tragedy.
Because she's admitting that without those experiences she'd continue to let those she doesn't know, in. Outsiders caused her family the most grief and even after being traumatized and abused Sansa was still sweet, but, it was Robb and Cat's deaths that broke her. She started to lose her faith. Will she gain it back? Maybe. Only time would tell.
Like....what did Sansa's trust earn her? Absorb what she went through and it's clear that she's meeting the world on it's terms, not hers. She adapted.
And why is everyone only focused on Ramsey? She's including them all; Joffrey, Cersei, Littlefinger, Ramsey, Lysa, etc. Ramsay wasn't the only cruel person she encountered. And take the sexual assault out of the equation....is she wrong?
"Everywhere she goes, bad people die, and that's arbitrarily a bad thing now in this dark fantasy series."
*insert comment about how Lindsay put more work into this video than D&D did into season 8*
I'd rather you did, since you brought it up, if you don't mind
More work put in to this video than the last 3 (and a half if you consider the sand snakes from S5) seasons combined.
Lindsay put more work into this video than D&D did into season 8
@@sanguinesr0se that'll do
HUGO AWARD COMETH
I love how the behind the scene stuff, where D&D get a free pass to explain their bad writing, only ended up being a showcase of their bad reasoning.
It's weird too how this segment went from "let's talk about choices we made different to the books as well as the work that we did shooting this scene" to literally preemptive rebuttal.
@array s The only problem being: Not only "Dany kind of forgot" - most characters in the show forgot something, and some forgot to pack their brains for the last season it seems.
it's like the death of the author video all over (or sarah z's jk rowling and authorial intent) except instead of ruining something 'not awful' they pissed fuel on a fire, and somehow didn't singe any pubes wrt their future career at star wars
Ha joke is on you...They never had any pubes to begin with.
@ThisIsMyRealName Like how the whole thing even started with Ned.
Remember when we were all in our homes for 14 months during a global pandemic and not a single person rewatched a show that but two years prior had pop culture in a chokehold?
Too busy rewatching twilight 😂
What really gets me is the self congratulatory circle jerk the writers had about “good stories” having the power to bring people together, coupled with their absolute lack of skill and apparent disregard for their craft (themes are for book reports), etc. These guys rode on GRRM’s writing and inflated their egos so much, they genuinely thought they were top tier writers. I need, NEED them to know how much they sucked. The fact that the seasons they wrote are synonymous with bad writing and directing is the legacy they deserve. Jeez.
they also trash canned a lot of plot points and book characters and dropped most of the magic from the series
Personally if they wanted to move on to Star Wars, they should have just handed the role of show runners to someone else…maybe even make up with GRR Martin and have him involved again. But that would take humility and respect for the cast, crew, and their craft.
Exactly. Like if you're gonna have such a self-indulgent Let's Praise The Writers Of The World party they should've, idk, tried a little harder to earn it.
At this point it's abundantly clear what happened:
GRRM heard their answer to R+L=J and thought they understood the story on an emotional level
Whereas D&D thought they were just the cleverest boys for figuring it out
"She's just a girl and she's scared" may be one of the more unironic misogynistic things I've heard lately.
Imagine Marvel saying "in the end, Thanos was just a boy."
but let's face it, everything is misogynist, right?
@@opsimathics No. You should care about contexts.
@Booper Dooper A black man and a cartoonishly racist white southerner. That's the only situation I can think of.
@Booper DooperI think Robert Deniro got called it in that long film that smells of piss.
Valonqar doesn't mean "little sibling", that's a common mistranslation, it actually means "some fooking rock".
This actually made me laugh out loud :D
Now I dont love to defend the show, but I'm pretty sure the prophecy just says she will die with the Valonqar's hands around her neck. So the embrace still fulfills that
@@calebpennell8631 In AFFC Maggy's words are "shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." So unless Jaime was doing REALLY quick work before that first stone fell... and even if he did, the show failed to show that, so happily there's no reason to defend it.
K L also there was a shot from above standing on the floor map with Cersei standing on the neck and Jamie standing on the fingers... so like even the show wanted to set it up just to “subvert expectations”
They left the valonqar part of the prophecy out of the show on purpose we shouldn’t have been expecting it to happen
Favourite lines from Lindsay:
8:45 “Yeah, nothing. Nothing happened… the countryside was not burninated”
12:15 “Nnnope! And Guess who gets the worst subplot of all time: You do, you do!”
19:25 “Based on *what*, those dragons have the fortitude of hummingbirds”
50:33 “When she reveals that she’s actually super hitler, the hitler that fliiiiiiiieees’”
54:27 “but your grace what about the geneva conventions”
@@leirarekceb3043
"And I donnwonnahear any of that "he's in denial" crap, this... this is the ending, we don't have time for that."
"Because battles are easy now. Because. We need. To wrap. This shit. Up!"
Or as TV Tropes calls him, Stupid Jetpack Hitler
Your point on Dany is so accurate. Her actions only make sense in the context of Faegon, the “Mummer’s dragon” being beloved by the people when they *should* love her
The moral of Game of Thrones being "don't try to change the world" makes a lot more sense when you learn of the rich, privileged background of D/D.
It really does...
Seriously.
Cuz “Don’t try to change the world, you’ll turn EVIL” was the only meaningful message I could glean from Dany’s storyline in the end.
@@zacharytaylor2983 And for God's sake don't go making a habit of liberating slaves!
Zillah Locke This from the guys who wanted to make a confederate show where slavery never ended. smh
akilo PLEASE TELL ME YOU ARE JOKING
To be fair, Game of Thrones is absolutely a story about how power corrupts: a cautionary tale of how power corrupted show runners.
I don't know, don't you think it is about how power reveals? It revealed D&D to be hack frauds.
Tony Stark
Yeah, it just revealed the truth. They can't be trusted with anything anymore. Plus, David Benioff helped write the screenplay for X-Men Origins: Wolverine.
Haha genius response
Nah, DxD got absolute power running the show, it absolutely revealed them to be terrible at running shows.
this.
"She's just a girl and she's scared" is really telling as to why the GOT happened the way it did. Fucking hell
I’ll never forget the table read video when the actor who plays Varys finished his final scene and put his script face down in utter disgust. You can tell almost every actor on this show was 100% committed to these characters they’ve worked years to perfect and truly cared about their characters arcs like every single one of us fans. Never have I seen a show so blatantly drop the ball quite like this.
I just got to the bit with the actor for Tyrion talking about how they put the women and children in the crypt and I noticed how his frustration is like... PALPABLE.
@@alice88wa lol big time. Tons of interviews out there for that final season where the actors are totally unable to talk about the show seriously nobody was proud of any of that. Emilia Clarkes sarcastic and nervous “best season ever!” Clip is also iconic.
I hate how people actually like Sansa's new "badass" persona... Sansa is supposed to be strong, not because of what she went through, but in spite of it. This narrative that kindness and compassion are weak is so tired... I would love to see a more reserved, cunning but still compassionate and kind Queen Sansa - like her father. That's who she deserves to be.
Writers seem to love the idea that a woman cannot be simultaneously vulnerable and strong at the same time. It’s an obnoxious and overused trope and they should learn to write female characters who can be caring and loving towards others while also being powerful. Traditional femininity shouldn’t be painted as a weakness.
I mean, this should've been Dany, wavering at one point then returning to compassion with the sparing of Kings Landing. Sansa can become the Littlefinger of the new age.
Book Sansa's journey is not the one we got on the show.
She does not get tormented by Ramsey after Littlefinger encouraged the marriage between the two without realizing what a sadistic nut Ramsey was.
Combine this with Sansa's somewhat trust in Baelish only to realize that he betrayed her family, in the worst way, as well gave us the Sansa we got in the end.
She constantly trusted people and was burned continuously.
Dany said it best when she told Jon that Sansa was not the same, especially after what "they have done to her".
Even Sophie admitted that Sansa trusted no man until she reunited with Jon had this was before the Baelish revelation.
She was almost there in season six, and the events in season seven sealed the deal.
Anyone who believes that this amount of nonstop pain and betrayal doesn't manifest itself in some way shape or form, negatively, is deluding themselves.
Fighting "toxic masculinity" is basically making female characters with those exact same toxic traits that they hated in the guys.
Kinda, "why should guys have all the fun of pillaging and murdering".
It also is so vehemently against what they did with Dany at the end (and how we were all apparently supposed to agree and be like "YEAH! OFF WITH HER HEAD!" makes negative sense.
It would be one thing if they were making some larger gender commentary or something, but they're not.....if they were (lol HIGHLY doubt) then they did a shit job of showing it.
"Somehow at the end she was just a girl"
Imagine this guy directing Breaking Bad.
"Somehow, at the end,. White was just a boy...."
Sub Roy Before s8 aired Weiss actually said they were hoping for a Breaking Bad discussion with the finale. "Is it an A ending or an A+ ending???"
Hell, about White that would make at least a tiiiiiiiny bit of sense. Imagine it being said about TODD. You know, that poor boy, just seen his beloved uncle murdered in front of him, and then strangled, oh you can't help but feel a little sorry for him... (actually no, Todd was a piece of shit and deserved to die, just like Cersei did).
But I thought White was a color? **Is bricked**
@@Adorni You mean, bricked inside Red Keep while Old Yeller is burninating outside?
@@subroy7123 That would be correct yes. And without even a sibling whose character was murdered for me to have my dead-end of a storyline with D:
All your complaints about Sansa's path of empowerment by losing all pathos also apply to Bran. Bran as a person basically died when he became the raven-god thing and now he's basically just the same body possessed by that alternate being who has no personality whatsoever. Guess which two characters get crowns by the end of the series too lol?
Also, why didn't Verys just poison her Starbucks if Daenerys wasn't eating her meals?
The way GoT portrayed Daenerys as some kind of monster in Season 8 even before The Bells from other character dialogues was disgusting. I refuse to accept and believe she would burn down an entire city and thousands of innocents when time and time again she has stated she would not do that.
The whole burning of King's Landing and the Hitler-esque speech was not in her character at all. It was a total character assassination. I refuse to believe it was foreshadowed or that it was always going to happen.
I hope this doesn't happen in the books also.
The books present a better argument for it to happen in that FAegon may get into a war with her and that turns people against her. But not only is the speech and city burning character assassination but what may happen in the books is that a battle sets off the wildfire and that wrecks the city-not wanting to. That was actually the earlier plan for season 8 but I guess the moronic writers later realized that Jon may not agree to an assassination over something Dany never wanted to have happen in the first place thus changes were made.
@@pplr1 There’s also Tyrion’s dark nihilistic mindset and how he could potentially advise Daenerys in the books. I mean I do think the show cut a few of the dark moments Daenerys moments (ie the wine sellers daughter’s) but the main problem in my opinion is that d&d failed to realise that while Daenerys definitely has a violent side in the books they didn’t make sure that the people that are most likely going to be her advisers in Winds and Dream are also dark individuals who are going to push her further towards using violence. Having Dany get more violent just because doesn’t work. You need all the pieces for it to fully click
@@williamnissen5083 I agree with you on Tyrion and how he would push her along a darker and more violent path. And having GoT Dany go more violent "just because" it an apt way of describing it. That said, it could be that even book Daenerys is will end up doing something redemptive and thus isn't as bad as they tried to make season 8 Dany. Now we may never get the next couple of books but there are options for book Daenerys both good and bad.
@@pplr1 yeah. Tyrion will definitely be apart of it though there are other people trying to get into her inner circle that will probably do the same. The tattered prince for Example. I think Dany will give him pentos after she learns Illyrio has been supporting Faegon/Young grift over her and realises that he never expected her to survive with the Dothraki
@@williamnissen5083 Thanks fro bringing out that point. There are a number of characters and subplots missing from the books that-if applied to characters that did appear in GoT, even if briefly, really can change both how other characters would treat them but also how viewers may see them.
"Who has a better story than Bran the Broken".... who was missing for all of season 5 because he had no story 🤦♀️
@Sky Dome What book? Bran has no story in book 4, but it's because book 4 and 5 are the same boo cut in half, half of the characters are in book 4, the rest in book 5 ^^
@Sky Dome understandable. he was definitely joking, but it means he understands what was working and what wasn't. which now seems like a fucking miracle in light of the adaptation.
Mr Martin was referring to early Jon-chapter in the first book. He forgot to write Bran in the scene when there was a feast for the king in the Winterfell.
Literally anyone. Tyrion's bright idea of copying the HRE system of governance brought forth the hundred years war, bloodiest conflict until ww1.
Edax that would have been the greatest thing ever.
"She kinda forgot" is bad writer's code for "I completely forgot."
Did you hear about their recent Q/A session from the Austin Film Festival? It's almost career suicide from what they talk about.
Worse, they didn't forget, didn't care and expected the fans to either A. be too dumb to notice, or B. fuck off
wHaT dOesN't kIlL yOu MaKEs yoU sTrONger!!
D&D's work on S5-S8 remind me of drunk college students who forgot a massive two year project was due until the night before the final presentation
Almost every time directors feel the need to explain character choices AFTER the show/movie has already come out, they usually spew BS because they realise their "stroke of genius" is actually either a huge plothole or massive contrivances.
The character that broke my heart with how stupid he became is Petyr Baelish .. This is the dude who manipulated an entire continent into war, are you seriously telling me that he was outsmarted by a 14yo kid and the girl who accepted marriage into the murderes of her family?
Well if anything that wasn’t all that stupid considering his hopeless, desperate infatuation with Sansa. That slip up made sense to me. He was a gross little pest anyway so I considered that a win
@@jaysax7381 His infatuation with Catlyn didn't make him slip up so why would Sansa be any diff? Indeed, it can be argued that his infatuation with Catlyn is what drove him to instigate the original rebellion with the coldest of cunnings so why would he suddenly turn absolutely stupid for Sansa for the same "infatuation" reason?
The final message the show leaves you with is that the most important thing in the world is genetics.
The Starks were our undisputed noble heroes despite of their actions, the Lannister were all traitors who were only loyal to their own family and the Targaryen have either good genes or crazy genes, and Daenerys was just unlucky and got the crazy gene.
Truly a message that would transcend history....
So...Was Lamarc right?
(SUPER FLYING HITLER!)
Only Targaryen who had good genes was Jon, and that was probably more to do with the Stark side of the family and even more so with his upbringing within the family, so really all Targaryens are crazy...
There are no words to describe how angry that message makes me.
Maybe the Targaryens have Huntington's or something.
And the only system viable is Big brother (Bran) is watching you !
the ending of this show is like watching someone pick the worst possible options when playing a telltale game.
This is the best analogy I’ve ever heard for this dumpster fire of a season lmao
Dany was shown as being fully evil in the Telltale Game of the show, so it's pretty legitimate.
Perfect description.
Bran will remember that
yes wow!
39:48 I was SCREAMING at my screen when i saw them semi redeeming Cersei with motherhood (super cliché for women) while turning Daenerys into an irredeemable psychopath like wth!!!
What drives me most crazy: the Dany v Jon "conflict" is resolved by as simple as marriage (and formal abdication as you said).
"But your grace, what about the Geneva convention" make me crack up waaaaay more than it should've
This show went from a massive global phenomenon that was everywhere to just COMPLETELY disappearing from media and pop culture in general outside of mocking it. That’s both sad and amazing.
Yeah even Lost fared better in comparison
If D&D were trying to leave their legacy with a scorched earth, they succeeded.
" Dany kinda forgot " will be all that is remembered.
it's sad because assuming Martin eventually does finish the books, I feel like the stink of the show ending will still overshadow the 30 some years people will have waited for his conclusion
@@Ryan-pg7hi honestly I've lost all hope he'll ever finish them, and the fact that the show ending was such a disaster probably doesn't inspire him either. I honestly feel sorry for the guy, I'd hate to be in his position despite all the fame and money and fans. Imagine waking up every morning knowing the world expects you to finish something you maybe don't even want to finish anymore.
Oh my gosh thank you for pointing out how Tyrion and Varys had no reason to betray Dany. The moment they found out Jon was the son of Rhaegar they were like bye Dany you're not fit to be queen because now we got a man urghhh. Never made any sense to me.
Yeah, they looked at Jon and Dany, two people quite obviously in love, one the King in the North and the other a Queen with 2 dragons and a massive army and went, "hey, let's kill her off." WHAT? They literally stared at the perfect marriage alliance that would bring the North back into the Seven Kingdoms and, instead, tried to kill off the person who risked her army and dragons to save all of their lives. Not to mention that, in any real world, her death would have immediately triggered war with the Dothraki and Unsullied (they're literally only in Westeros to see her on the Throne) and would have loosed Drogon on everyone. It's so stupid it's brain melting.
@@lindoriel7286not to mention the fact that Cersei is very much still sitting on the iron throne with a massive army of her own, and she is a known insane tyrant who would gleefully kill her own ppl and has good reason to hate the north and especially house stark… so let’s kill the one person who can dethrone Cersei and lose all those allies! I’m sure our less than 10,000 Northmen can take down a pissed off dragon, Dothraki, and Unsullied while successfully defending our independence from Cersei’s vindictive ass and her massive Golden Army.
I feel like Catherine in "The Great" is the anti-Sansa, or more specifically what Sansa should have been. All of the cunning, the cleverness, the way everyone underestimates her because of her beauty, even her initial romantic naivete prior to marrying a childish cruel ruler. The difference, however, is that she always retains her gentleness and compassion, rather than have the writers carve it out of her in the name of faux feminism. She shows that femininity is not the opposite of power and cunning, nor is it antithetical to being a strong woman. The reason she's so much stronger and more competent than Peter is because of her empathy, which helps fuel her intelligence.
Watch "The Great". It's, well, great.
I feel this way about Starlight in The Boys, too. When I started that show I was so prepared for a "naive character gets crushed by the cruel world around her" arc, but they've consistently written her as a kind and just person, and it's honestly a breath of fresh air.
I love the descriptor "Her intelligence is just writer clairvoyance", because I see it so often, where a person isn't smart because of their own deductive abilities or perceptions, but because they just say a bunch of things that wind up being right. Because writers can't write characters smarter than they are
This! Exactly. The degree to which D&D genuinely did not understand the world, characters or message of the very work they'd been adapting for over a decade is still somehow stunning to me. A decade! And they just...didn't understand any of it. It's baffling.
This was the major problem with Sherlock and Dr Who under Moffat too. The first rule of writing is show, don't tell, but instead we're just told constantly about how smart and great sherlock/the doctor are, with them saving the day, but never actually showing how they really did that or showing logical reasoning for answers they come up with, they'll just literally walk into a room and go "ok I've solved it". And the Doctor would have all these scenes with aliens afraid of his reputation and he'll make some dark speech and end with "because I, am, the DOCTOR!!!" or whatever and then the day is saved
If you haven't already go watch hbomberguy's video about Sherlock. It's long but it's amazing, if you love Lindsay's videos you'll love his ones (he's even in this video, he does the voice overs for the" 2 seasons earlier" bits). If you are a writer or creator it's a fantastic video to learn about some pitfalls all writers make (even apparently huge ones like Moffat), and it's just great to watch anyway even if you're not a writer.
Ah screw it ill just go find the link for you:
ua-cam.com/video/LkoGBOs5ecM/v-deo.html
That's why I fucking hate the BBC's Sherlock
Unpopular opinion: this is also why I don't like good will hunting. Will just "knows" everything and has read every book there ever was, but you never see him showing instead of telling his intelligence. Also the rest of the plot I found quite melodramatic.
@@CanelaAguila I've always thought this about Good Will Hunting, yesss!
"you have to love something a lot to be this disappointed" basically the perfect quote to sum up this whole depressing mess
Yes
Don't particularly care for the show stopped watching when they skipped lady stoneheart, would be really disappointed if Martin never finished the story
1:08:24 "BEST SEASON EVER" :P lol
It's a quote I've used in reference to other media. Because it's true
Changing the Stark motto to “fuck you, got mine” had me cackling 😂
"But your Grace what about the Geneva Convention". Is HILARIOUS
"We can't trust Daenerys because the people flip a coin when a Targaryen was born. We can trust Jon Snow, Aegon Targaryen, because he's a Targaryen, but the rightful ruler, he's also a man, which so were the previous Targaryen tyrants, and he doesn't want to rule so therefore he's more suited to ruling... just like Robert Baratheon." Truly this is the worst logic on the series. Varys' entire character motivation for half the series is undone because convenience demands it.
Didn't Robert Baratheon nearly bankrupt the Kingdom becomes he kept spending on lavish parties?
@@shadowmaydawn yes
@@shadowmaydawn To be fair to King Bobby B, a lot of the debt was Littlefinger's fault.
@@Lord_Of_Night Only in the show. For what it's worth, in the books it's mentioned that Littlefinger was actually a brilliant master of coin, and was pretty much the only reason the realm hadn't collapsed under Robert's own lack of financial acumen.
@@ColArana Even in the show it's only Littlefingers fault in the sense that he was good at finding lenders, he didn't as far as we know encourage Robert's reckless spending in any way.
"she's sUPER HITLER - HITLER THAT FLIIIIIIIES!"
my poor lungs
If you really pay attention, you can hear the dragons making Stuka-like noises.
We should have known!
Though I liked Sansa becoming Queen of the North, I too am disappointed how the writers needed to turn her into a cold, somewhat ruthless leader to show she's strong. Both the books and the show's first four seasons show how she slowly becomes more perceptive and cunning while still keeping her compassion and kindness. Moments like when she saved Dontos, or when she raised the morale of the women during the siege of the Red Keep show her inner, feminine strength. There's another telling scene in "Feast for crows" when she and a scared-Robin need to ride down a perilous mountain road, and she pretends to be a damsel in distress to raise his courage, when it is obvious that she's the courageous one. One of the goddesses in Westeros' main religion, "Faith of the Seven", is named "The Mother", whom represents the nurturing, resilient aspect of humanity. It was originally clear that Sansa possessed this type of strength. Her mother, Catelyn Stark, had it too, to which Brianne referred as having a "woman's courage". Even more, there's an excerpt chapter for (the upcoming?) "Winds of winter" that shows Sansa's potential to play the game of thrones by using her intelligence and beauty. But instead of showcasing Sansa's natural abilities as a demonstration of how women (and people) can be strong in different ways, the writers decided that she needed to grow into a cold hearted bitch to become a strong, feminist character, which is ironically misogynist.
I’ve always hated the double standards they apply to dany. they try to convince the audience that dany’s actions in essos were wildly tyrannical and we didn’t realize. “everywhere she goes evil men die and we cheer her for it”… never understood this line. like yes, she did kill evil men. why is that suddenly such an issue?? they’re making it sound like dany simply BELIEVED the people she has executed were evil, as if she was mistaken. her whole arc for multiple seasons was bringing an end to slavery. i really don’t get how they’re trying to spin that as tyrannical. she executed slaveholders who crucified children. that does not foreshadow the burning of kings landing one bit. she has shown time and time again that she truly, genuinely cares for the common people. for that reason, her sudden turn to “madness” was completely out of character and is blatant character assassination. dany really deserved better
Just the fact that Dany executing people is "bad" and "evil" when every single Stark has executed someone, sometimes innocent people, yet they're still as moral and righteous is telling of how stupid the writers are.
"Jon executing a child? Fuck that kid, he deserved it! Ned executing a teenager for desertion? Maybe if you hadn't run from the cops-- I mean, Night's Watch, you wouldn't have gotten killed. Arya wiping out an entire bloodline, leaving countless widows and orphans to fend for themselves while a war is going on just as winter is coming? YAAASS! SLAY, KWEEN!! Dany executing her father's bannermen for fighting against her and the treason man who already tried to have her assassinated before? EVIL! MADNESS! SHE'S WORSE THAN HITLER!!"
@@SilburificI finished the show like a week ago and when i tell you i was SCREAMING what you and the op wrote lol. It was the hypocrisy for me 🤢
"But your grace what about the Geneva Convention"
I wheezed
Dany's "They don't get to choose": Used as a sign that she's a mad tyrant or something...
Everyone in the council: *laughs at the idea of letting others choose*. But they're supposedly gonna be great for the realm.
John, earlier "they don't get to chose"
Also, Daenerys “I’ve Been All For the People for 7 Seasons” Targaryen suddenly changes opinions?
Precisely...
Dany's statement was regarding every person in the entire world. Every ruler from every culture and on every continent. Their views on right and wrong, their opinions on various matters, their very existence doesn't matter. Only she matters. Therefore, she would rule them all. Because.. well, she's already gone this far, why not world domination through genocide?
The council was made up of lords and ladies of Westeros, who would decide what is best FOR Westeros.. and for themselves but you know..
Simply put: A mentally unstable girl with a full-grown dragon who just burns whoever she wants deciding everything sure seems worse than a council of self-serving nobles electing someone who should decide everything.
Aspiring Marauder it's because they've got cocks, duh. Sansa and Arya have honorary cocks. Also known as emotionlessness.
Something I just noticed that’s really frustrating is that Jamie and Tyrion’s whole: “do it for the innocent people in that city”/“never really cared for them, innocent or otherwise” debate would make so much more sense for their earlier season counterparts if their roles were switched. Seems like it really should’ve been Tyrion out for revenge to let them all die in battle and Jamie trying to save them given their established motives pre-season five.
The thing that bugs me the most is how people point out Dany’s behavior as signs of her going mad when half the cast had done more or worse but nah they’re fine. *cough* Arya making human pies *cough*
To play Devil's advocate for a moment, the difference there is that Arya is not purporting herself to be a savior. Arya freely admits to taking vengeance against those she feels wronged by.
Can the same be said of Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Mother of Dragons, the Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, the Unburnt, the Breaker of Chains?
@@terra__incognita umm... the reason why they say her "madness was foreshadowed" is that she kept saying she will burn her enemies, so dany said she will burn her enemies and throughout the show she has ONLY BURNED HER ENEMIES except in season 8 episode 5. So yes, she did admit she will burn her enemies, and she followed up with her actions.
@@marziyashaikh3748 Umm . . . that was not at all the point I was making. I said nothing about foreshadowing at all. I was calling out Daenerys's savior complex. She wants to be seen as a compassionate, loving figure, to be praised by all for her thoughtfulness and care - her father was much the same in his youth, actually - but when it comes down to it her actions show that she cares for little beyond taking all she feels belongs to her. One only has to look at the mess left in her wake in the Free Cities to see that she isn't actually all that good at ruling, but rather than stick around and fix the mess there she thinks only of making it to Westeros, a place she knows even less about the structure of society and the government.
She repeats that she wishes to "break the wheel" over and over and yet never expounds on what she sees that looking as or how she thinks it can be made to occur. If she remembered her duty to the people she wishes to lead she could have been a great leader, but - likely due to lack of education as a displaced child - she lacks the ability to think beyond the moment she is in, impulsivity being the bane of Daenerys's character through both books and show.
Add in the fact that George R. R. Martin himself is a pacifist and Daenerys is the character he gave the medieval equivalent of nuclear weapons to, and it becomes pretty clear that however clumsily D & D did so (and they did make a HUGE mess of things, my goodness), Daenerys's ending in the show is very similar to what Martin is building towards for her in the books. Her catchphrase is "if I look back, I'm lost," when that's the exact opposite of why historians record history, i.e. George Santayana's oft-remembered quote "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
@@terra__incognita she didnt know how to rule in the beginning but she learnt from her mistakes, followed her advisors words and even did things that were against her morals because people wanted that. She doesnt have a "saviour complex" she wanted to do good and she did. Just because d and d gave her a similar ending of what martin is planning doesnt mean its justified, as in one episode she is sacrifising her armies and dragons and her pursuit of the iron throne to save lives in the north even when jon snow refused to bend the knee and two episodes later she is burning innocents.
Arya stark cant be compared to dany, arya only ever did anything for her own good, she didnt even raise a finger for others, you did mean that in the originial comment and now you are changing your stand. you listed out daenerys's titles and tried to point to her hypocrisy, but i proved you wrong as she has only ever killed her enemies and if by mistake she killed innocents she always followed up by correcting her mistakes, like when she locked up her dragons.
We never saw sansa rule too, we dont know how she would have been as queen of winterfell, a few good days as lady doesnt prove anything, just because a ruler is new and learning it doesnt mean they arent good enough, dany had all the basics of a just ruler and that makes her better than any other candidate.
All you dany haters want to do is prove her wrong one way or another, the reality is there is no character on GOT who can live up to her list of achievements, and when u try to put her down by calling her "violent" you can see even jon snow isnt an angel when he beheaded janos slint for refusing to "bend the knee", and the most noble of all, ned stark beheaded a man sunning scared for his life in front of ten year old bran and declared death sentence for the mountain without even confirming if he was involved in the crimes, let alone give him a trial.
@@terra__incognita the thing is though, Dany didn't want to see herself as a savior, she WAS a savior. She saved hundreds of thousands of people, half the time when she didn't have to and I don't remember an episode where she brags about it. Also every speech she makes to the people she liberates starts with "I didn't give you your freedom, you did. You can leave if you want." Dany haters always act like she has this god-complex, but she's a magical being with prophetic dreams and 3 dragons who goes around saving the world so like.. is she not allowed to be proud of herself?
The most accurate description of season 8 is the actor who plays Varys putting away the script whilst reading it and looking incredibly disappointed.
I can definitely imagine that
@@fernando-sl7qm You don't have to! There's video of it
@@MatthewGerrish link?
@@TechnoMinarchist watch?v=VH8w8SitIRI
i love that clip
The King of the Night kills her first kid: Dany is ok
The Iron Islands kill her second kid: Dany is ok
Cersei kills her translator: I'LL KILL THIS PEASANTS AND BURN THEIR CITY TO THE GROUND!
To be fair she was pissed off about the 2nd dragon dying too. But what the writers tried to do is still very ridiculous.
That point they're trying to make with Daenerys, that the most dangerous/bad people are those who believe in something too much, isn't even true. In real life, the most dangerous people are those who don't believe anything, or are willing to believe whatever would have to be true so they can get the power they want (see: people like Henry Kissinger).
Believing too much in power is actually believing too much in something though.
Eh I disagree. Believing too much in something can absolutely be dangerous. Look at many revolutionaries ehich believed so strongly in their causes that they did absolutely anything for them. Thus becoming just as bad as what they were fighting against. Aka the entire french revolution, Che, Etc
@@sturm9087 You have a poor understanding of those revolutions and the regimes that predated them. For example Che Guevara only carried out AT MOST a hundred or so executions of various war criminals, while said war criminals in the Batista regime killed up to 20,000 of their own citizens. Let's not let neoliberal narratives override historical truths.
"What unites people?.... stories." They were right, we are united in our hatred of what they did to Game of Thrones.
As said in the Cats video, people like surrounding trash fires, metaphorical or literal.
So what he told us was true...from a certain point of view.
I wanted to thumbs up this but it has now 666 upvotes and that is the perfect amount of validation
Hear! Hear!
Excellent
“We need to wrap this shit up” perfectly sums up season 8
Emily Brown "AND LETS NOT EVEN TRY EITHER" like shit they can't even pronounce Missandae right...how much money did they make to literally write like a page of words for season 8...ugh
Hahahaha yeah its sad really
喜欢是喜欢，但是总感觉哪里有点不对劲
D&D lost interest in the show and wanted to get it over with so they can move onto the Star Wars series.
@@Ishkur23 and the one thing to keep in mind before judging them too harshly on that, IMO, is that they technically didnt sign up for "writing" plot in the first place. they were hired to adapt the story of the books for a TV series at a time where everyone involved - including them, the author, the execs.. everyone - believed that the book series would be finished before the show came to its conclusion. which you have to admit they did a pretty good job at while it lasted.
only several seasons in did everyone realize that that would not be the case and they would be running out of the original material to adapt and they would have to actually write the story going forward. now i dont know why they didnt just bring additional writers on board at that point, if that was their own choice or maybe GRRM had issues with that idea, i have no idea what was in the fine print of everyones contracts in terms of that. but they didnt, and it showed. there was an immediate drop-off in the quality of the writing after they reached the ending of the books.
i know people really wanted to believe that there would be an awesome conclusion to this, but the writing was quite literally on the wall if you payed any attention during seasons 5-7, which is why the eventual outcome shouldnt have been all that surprising.
Sansa’s distrust of Dany comes across as jealousy imo.
Bc there’s no other reason for her to distrust Dany so much from the start and especially after she risked her men and life to help winterfell.
It’s nuts that she’s being that catty /insecure bc Dany is “very pretty.” I could see early season Sansa doing this but S8? It shows her character didn’t grow that much after all.
Sansa & Dany’s characters were done so dirty imo
Yes- Sansa’s jealousy was so hateful and honestly reminiscent of Cersei’s treatment of Margery.
My takeaways from this video:
1. Dragon Lady good actually
2. HBomb is a precious cinnamon roll
3. We miss you, Lindsay
solid takes
Nice casual parasocial relationship you got going with Hbomberguy there.
Also, 4. D+D are a bunch of worthless hacks.
The whole ‘well look at how cold Daenerys was when her brother was killed’ thing is a particular spit in the face when you consider Stannis Baratheon’s arc. A man who literally had his daughter burned alive so that he could have a shot at power. Even he wasn’t framed as being insane in the way she was.
THANK YOU. Also, Daenerys' brother was all rapey and incesty, so why *would* she care?
TenEnvelopes yeah, I never understood why she was supposed to be upset that her abuser was killed. And let’s also not forget that Stannis had his brother Renly killed.
TenEnvelopes Yeah. And above all that, her brother was just an absolute FUCKHEAD.
It’s not even just the sexual abuse, but because he sought to control her, because he didn’t respect her, and because he didn’t account for how capable she was.
Hell, compare him to DROGO. Drogo was a more than a little sexually aggressive to Danny too, but he was actually receptive to change, and eventually grew to respect and care for her. Her brother had no such intention.
@Frank Castle What are you talking about Stannis's ending was great. His last words were perfectly in character as was his mistakes. From beginning to end he was a emotionally-cold, rule-fixated, religiously-deluded leader.
And despite all the abuse Viserys puts her through, she STILL names one of her dragons -her children- after him
maybe the real game of thrones is the friends we made along the way
Closure at last. Thank you friend
but i made no friend along the way :(
We make friends so we can betray and kill them, right?
I made some friends, but the show killed them all.
@Monstergelo
I'll be your friend, mate.
In S8 I was almost screaming "Do you want to die?" at the screen every time Sansa would provoke Dany to her face. Sansa may have learned many lessons but not to recognise the flat out super power of the Mother of Dragons was rank stupidity. What Dany wants, Dany will get. Jon wasn't stupid enough not to get this. To her Sansa is an almost irrelevant little girl who doesn't recognise she has brought her armies north in order save her Kingdom including the North. Sansa has been through a lot but like Cersei has come to believe she is smarter than she is purely because she's smarter than she was. She has v. limited experience of power whereas Dany has had it since she married Khal Drogo.
If the show made sense after Dany realized how irrational and determined to hate her the North, Sansa, and co were she would have taken her dragons and armies and left them to their precious frozen hell hole.
@@r.hcarroll6581 that way the starks could die of full bellies too.
I think it also forgets that Sansa will do anything to take down Cersei, so Dany is everything she could want.
I forgot how absolutely braindead the plot point of Tyrion being in love with Dany is.
It was built upon nothing more than a couple of prolonged stares, Dany already had Jorah fill in for the abhorrent admirer part (he knew her since she was 17,he was 46) which despite being creepy, made some sense because Jorah IS a creep and because Dany reminded him of his ex wife (idk why the show displays him as a hero when in the books it's made more obvious that he isn't nearly ad noble as he wants to appear)
Also, historically Tyrion only ever has been romantically invested in women that gave him the affection and love her never got from his family, such as the peasant girl (only mentioned) and Shae.
Daenerys was always polite and trustful towards him at best, absolutely nothing about their interactions seemed like something that would saw the seeds of love in him.
There was absolutely no time to develop any kind of love interest for Tyrion, but if they felt that it was obligatory he could've reunited with his tragic childhood sweetheart at least, give him a subplot where he does something bedsides being comedic relief and losing IQ points by the minutes.
Thinking of, has Dany ever have an advisor besides Ser Barristan that WASN'T in love with her?
It's a very telling and specific type of male fantasy where the hot queen is unobtainable and they're the best friend adviser just waiting on the wings for her to notice them. Real nice guy energy.
Not defending it at all, but I kinda saw Tyrion as not romantic love, but infatuated by her leadership and ideals. Still it's all crap. I do think I read it wrong, potentially. His disappointed look on the boat could either be seen as jealousy or disappointment.
@@calebgonzalez599 I saw it the same way in the context of the show. It seemed like he became fully invested in her cause and what she stood for, which also makes sense with his throwing away the pin in the final episode. I don't think I can say for certain that his character was written to be in (romantic) love with Dany, but there was nothing that made me think he was.
I know it was mentioned, but let's take some time to remember that we started the show with "A King Who Doesn't Want To Be King" and he did a shit job of it. He drinks, screws around, mistreats his political-marriage wife, ignores the ruling of his country, plunges it into debt, and neglects to raise his children. We established in Season 1 that it wouldn't work! How would people like Varys and Tyrion (who spent the last decade watching Robert utterly fail at ruling) think it was a good idea to repeat that?
Not to mention that another reluctantly powerful character is Ned, who messes things up as badly as his friend Robert, albeit in a very different way. The first book/season really hammers down the point that reluctant doesn't necessarily mean competent.
@@kajamiletic3223 tbf I think Ned would have been a perfectly fine Hand if the lannisters weren't conniving bastards. I think there's a line in the first book/season - maybe with Jaime? where someone says to Ned 'you could have been King', with the implication that the realms would have been much better off than with Robert
See, this is where actually allowing Jon to have some freaking point of view in the matter would have come in real handy! Because I think in the case of Jon, Varys happened to be right, but it's because Jon's reasons for not wanting it were presumably toootally different from Robert's.
Knowing everything we know of Jon from the previous 7 seasons when he actually, you know, got to BE a character with opinions and a point of view, it's quite obvious that he never would have been the type to take the throne just out of obligation and then be too lazy or ambivalent to actually do his best at ruling well. No, I have to imagine that his not wanting that responsibility is basically an extension of what he expressed to Sansa after their reunion in season 6: he's someone who's been continuously GIVEN positions of power he hadn't been intending or wanting, and his experience with that is that it's mostly a whole lot of fighting and feeling responsible for the security of the whole realm, and having to do things it pained him to do out of duty.
So if anything, Jon didn't want it because he WOULD take the responsibility incredibly seriously (he is the most like Ned, after all), and it would always be a huge weight on him that would make him miserable. That is an entirely different form of "not wanting it" than Robert, who just kind of got bored with the whole thing and didn't want to have to deal with the ins and outs of ruling. So yes, given Jon's nature, he WOULD have been a great King in my book, and yes, part of that is because he wouldn't have been doing it out of any amount of power hunger but out of responsibility.
But of course, none of that was ever delved into in season 8 because they suddenly decided, apparently, that Jon was just some mindless pushover who didn't have actual emotions and points of view of his own to express until the last episode >__< (Ugh, I'm so bitter about how dirty they did him.)
Robert would have done all those things regardless. He was highly dysfunctional and self destructive when faced with the tedium of day to day life, despite the battlefield heroics that won him the throne. That may not be the best example.
John would have been much better overall, but that compulsion to act honorably would have served him poorly in the world of politics, as it did with Ned.
@@Aldowyn Yep, and also, I feel like King and Hand as roles kind of lend themselves to different strengths. Ned was seemingly a really good *leader* (which is Jon's strength as well), and that's one of the most important aspects of a good King/ruler. But the Hand role is an advisory, more behind-the-scenes one that lends itself to someone who's got the political savvy more than the natural leadership ability. Not that Ned wasn't a good Hand in a lot of ways, but he was just too naive in that environment, which isn't the right fit for the one who's supposed to be keeping the eye out.
A lot of people seem to argue that Jon would have been too naive to be King, but the difference is that he already HAD plenty of people really good at the political game in his court who would gladly advise him. Tyrion and Varys (if they went back to their prime), Sansa, even Davos... he would not have been all alone in it like Ned was! And he'd be in the position where his natural leadership and ability to gain peoples' trust and loyalty would be most properly utilized. So nah, Jon would have been a great King in my book. He just genuinely didn't want the weight of that responsibility, and I can't fault that at all.
"Look how mad Danaerys is! She's tired... and she has no makeup. Truly a red flag. Better kill her now!"
Put her down like Old Yeller.
Hahahha. Yes that's pretty much what they did.
Agreed... Oh no Cersei decapitated my handmaiden... I have no one to braid my hair now... Obviously this has driven me over the edge...
Oh Hey! Wait a minute!
Now my character has motivation to burn a whole city.🙈
She has bags under her eyes… 🚩🚩🚩🚩
@@kellywolstenholme8134 She must be on her peeeeeeeeeeeeeriod
I know I'm a million years late to this discussion but my whole beef with the "power corrupts" theme of GOT is that if that was true, it should have been Jon Snow's whole character. You have a guy who starts with little to his name, a bastard son to a great power, but he's not really legit and his adoptive mother kind of hates him. He joins the night watch, helps them, gets promoted to captain, dies, gets revived by a god, fights for the north some more, becomes kind of in charge of the house and land that he was denied years before, and becomes right hand man to the potential future dragon queen and gets told that he should be the legit actual dragon king (and is on good terms with the current king, yeah Cat didn't like him but Brann, Sansa, and Arya all liked him and would have given him some power and a seat if he wanted it).
Like if you're going to have a character rise to power and then go mad with it, why not Jon? Why not the dejected sorta-nobody at the beginning who keeps getting put into positions of power despite not seeming like he really wants it, who could have easily developed a savior and God complex both after he gets brought back from the dead and gets told he is actually the long lost super prince who should be king?
It feels like such a missed opportunity, and if they really wanted to subvert expectations they could have gone that route. Jon Snow starts so innocent and main charactery so turning him into a villain would really be unexpected.
That would’ve been amazing especially considering how they were always pushing that “mad Targaryen” thing. It could’ve been such a juicy plot twist if the writers were warning us about John all along. But no, they fumbled the bag
that's actually a pretty cool idea
So basically Jon should start a cult
Genius
I’m convinced that because they didn’t put ‘Young Griff’ AKA Faegon in the show. They just merged him and Jon into one which is why Varys supports him. I still find it very funny though that in the show Rhaegar named both his sons Aegon.
So glad Lindsay addressed the total lack of consequences for Cersei's destruction of the Sept. I remember watching that happen and thinking "holy s***, what a ballsy, desperate move. I can't wait to see what the fallout will be!" And then... nothing. Absolutely nothing. In retrospect, I realize this was where the show finally lost me. I didn't even bother with S8, and based on the backlash, I made the right decision.
Same for me, the fact that Cersei was so clearly a tyrant and yet faces no consequences for being so is where my last hope of a decent ending died. Same for the loss of the food baggage train. Without consequences actions have no meaning and without meaningful actions there is no story.
I've only ever watched the first two episodes of GOT, and this video has even gotten me pissed and disappointed. My deepest sympathies for the fans of the show. Y'all deserved better.
Go watch seasons 1-5, they're mostly great. Season 6 is allright. Then just stop.
She destroyed the sept and the third (?) most wealthy family and all the local nobles. That is a very baller move that wouldn't even give room for anyone to contemplate any sort of rebellion. Also, I think there was a quick line about seizing the wealth of those nobles and giving it out.
I didn’t watch it either, started the first ep of S8 but as soon as they all met and Bran was like “We don’t have time for this we need to discuss this NOW” I could already tell how terribly rushed this was going to be.
My favorite thing is: "All Targaryens are crazy."
Jon Snow: *is a Targaryen but with like half the incest I guess*
Everyone: "Yeah, much better"
Lmao... so true... STARK GOOD... TARG BAD....Jon good bc half Stark, half incest.... Jon fans be like well that doesn’t count bc Rhaegar married Lyanna...don’t mind 3 centuries of inbreeding since Aegon the Conqueror, you only need one Stark parent in order to be sane and the good guy lol
You are missing the line "every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin". It¡s not all of them, just 50% hehe
Since both Dany and Jon have done "good" things... why has Jon's coin even landed.
souldelbueno That’s not character development hehe
@AmbitiousWitch This. Exactly this. Out of the many, many Targaryens that lived across three hundred or so years, only like 5 or 6 were insane. Mad King Aerys wasn't the norm, he was among the exceptions.
Tyrion: “at first she killed the rapists and we cheered her.”
Me: damn right we did! And she should do it again!
"And who has a better story, than Bran the broken..."
Literally 2/3rds of all the people at that f***ing meeting!
You may be putting that number at too low a percentage.
I’d rather have Davos as king and he can’t pronounce night
“First she came for the slavers and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a slaver...” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This video perfectly sums up why the last season and the finale were so disastrous!
I mean, that part of the speech is fine. The slave masters she crucified were NOT the slave masters that crucified the slaves. There were only a few men ruling the city making that decision.
The problem is that this awful brutality of hers was only demonstrated once, seasons ago. It is totally believable that since then, she has grown less brutal, through learning from her advisors. She seems to have gotten better, then there is an awkward mid-air stare where she changes her mind.
KaosOrder oh I totally agree! I just got a good chuckle from her using the quote because it points out just how ridiculous Dani’s rampage was in the last episode.
@@KaosOrder 1) They were all slave owners, though.
2) A good portion of them she crucified were indeed part of that decision
There's no justification for using that speech in that context, in any way.
One thing I haven't seen much talk about:
I hate Cersei's wardrobe change to the Dark Queen/Sith-style stuff, all the black and chains. Cersei is a proud Lannister, she'd wear red and gold proudly, and not wear black, which is supposed to dictate mourning. But, as Lindsay said, she doesn't give a shit, she wouldn't want to wear black.
D&D only chose a these austere black pieces because they *really* want to get across that this evil character was E.V.I.L.
Irishlawyer the pattern of her dresses are the same what Tywin wore. She thinks of herself to be as good as her father and that she is even better than him. But year they should have kept her hair regrowing I loved her long hair
@@malena5026 I highly doubt that would have even occured to the writers.
The costume design in the last two season in general took a big hit. The characters wore the same outfit throughout almost all of the season and when they did change, the outfit was nearly identical to the previous. I don’t think Tyrion had a single outfit change at all. Does Hand of the King come with a uniform now?
ejnar sorensen it’s what was implied by Michele Clapton the costume designer. They let her a free hand basically because her costumes are bomb
well, she does stop wearing those austere, black outfits and starts wearing a nice velvet red and gold dress eventually! only for daenerys to start wearing austere, black outfits...despite her having worn white nearly all season...because ~surprise~ she was the real villain all along? but, not the night's watch or the starks. they're allowed to wear black and be good guys because something or other.
Never realized until later that Ned encourages Jon to join the NW as another layer of protection from Robert B. That’s why he says “next time we meet we’ll talk about ya mutha”, because he’ll be a NWman and he’ll be safe enough to know his real identity.
just imagining a story where Tyrion's speech about "evil men" was actually good in the narrative.
Like a story where Dany was killing lots of evil people in her rise to power, and you don't second guess what her motivations are because after all, these people are evil. Than near the very end of the story you learn her motivations were super bad and it was just a convenient thing that the people in her way happened to be evil. Tyrion's speech could have been a great payoff to a long slow reveal about a character right?
But instead we know Dany's motivations and that these motivations were always explicitly good.
I like how D&D ruined Daenerys's character based on how we accepted her growing bloodlust and self righteousness but they turned Arya into a Jedi for that same reason.
*Edit
I also realized this morning that after everything she'd been through, Sansa was still as stupid, childish, and delusional as she was at the beginning of the show XD.
Dany is a monster for executing a nobleman who won't surrender to her. But Jon is NOT for killing a young boy led into mutiny by older men due to his legit anger at Wildings who recently butchered his entire family and ate them. And Arya is not despite slaughtering the entire Frey clan and serving them in a pie to Lord Frey. I mean, I'm not compaining about the last part, but there seems to be different standards of judging people based on them being Starks or not...
@@MariaVosa D&D are Northern supremacists.
That's called fanservice
@@MariaVosa Lord Tarly had surrendered. He was refusing to bend the knee.
@@thorsday121 the north is filled with Xenophobic shits.
"But your grace what about the Geneva Conventions" Best line of the video.
That's good, but I vote, "She reveals she's actually super Hitler; the Hitler that fliiiies!"
@@asphaltpilgrim You're not wrong XD
I
Hard agree. Made me laugh my ass off. ^^
You are the reason I hate Starbucks.
Believing in a social cause too much being compared to “just as bad as nazis” is exactly the kind of fallacious, stupid political opinion I’m so disheartened by in our own culture. And they just unironically made it the point of The arc for Danny
I actually think that the concept itself is interesting and worth exploring, it just makes no sense for Dany's arc
I mean, the point isn't really "believing too much", that implies it's a matter of intensity that's the problem, but it's not.
You can do terrible things in the name of good causes and end up supporting reprehensible actions as a result, whether that's common or not doesn't mean it's fallacious.
@@fellinuxvi3541the fallacious side of it comes from that argument being used to halt or slow progress and justice in the name of keeping the peace
@@kuno3336 That's still not a fallacy though.
@@fellinuxvi3541 it is, but i keep coming to this comment section when I'm exhausted and don't have the spoons to explain it
All these years later, "and yet at the end, she's just a girl and she's scared and he's there to comfort her" while rocks fall and everybody dies still makes me speechless. Is *that* what this relationship was like to you?