Pocahontas Was a Mistake, and Here's Why!
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2017
- But there's a benefit to losing... you get to learn from your mistake. So don't worry, we're gonna fix colonialism, y'all!
Twitter: @thelindsayellis
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Sources:
Stewart, James B. Disney War. New York: Simon & Schuster Paperbacks, 2006. Print.
Reel Injun. Dir. Neil Diamond, Catherine Bainbridge, and Jeremiah Hayes. Rezolution Pictures, 2009. Film.
Cochran, Jason. "Pocahontas Needed an Ethnic Look." EW.com. Time Inc, 16 June 1995. Web. 16 July 2017.
ew.com/article/1995/06/16/poca....
Dekneef, Matthew. "5 Beautiful Versions of 'Aloha Oe,' Queen Liliuokalani's Most Famous Song." Hawaii Magazine. N.p., 02 June 2017. Web. 16 July 2017. www.hawaiimagazine.com/content....
Durian, Annie The Amazing. "Disney Magazine: Cast and Crew Interviews." The Waterfalls: Cast and Crew Interviews. Disney Adventures Magazine, 1995. Web. 16 July 2017. cbl.orcein.net/pocahontas/misc....
Elaine Dutka | Elaine Dutka Is a Times Staff Writer. "The Angriest Actor : Native American Activist Russell Means Focused His Fierce Will at Wounded Knee. Can a Revolutionary Co-exist with 'Pocahontas'?" Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles Times, 11 June 1995. Web. 16 July 2017. articles.latimes.com/1995-06-1....
Grandinetti, Tina. "Moana Might Be Great for Representation but It's Not All Heartwarming for Hawaii." The Guardian. Guardian News and Media, 12 Jan. 2017. Web. 16 July 2017. www.theguardian.com/film/2017....
Herman, Doug. "How the Story of “Moana” and Maui Holds Up Against Cultural Truths." Smithsonian.com. Smithsonian Institution, 02 Dec. 2016. Web. 16 July 2017. www.smithsonianmag.com/smithso....
Hunt, Elle. "Taika Waititi on Shaking up Thor and Being a Hollywood Outsider: 'They Take This Stuff so Seriously'." The Guardian. Guardian News and Media, 20 Mar. 2017. Web. 16 July 2017. www.theguardian.com/film/2017....
Casley, Emma. "‘Lilo & Stitch,’ ‘Moana,’ and Disney's Representation of Indigenous Peoples." Bitch Flicks. N.p., n.d. Web. 16 July 2017. www.btchflcks.com/2016/11/lilo....
Why Not Moana. Perf. Tina Ngata. N.p., n.d. Web. vimeo.com/194799458.
How Disney Uses Language. Perf. Sideways440. N.p., n.d. Web. • How Disney uses Language - Розваги
I once read somewhere that Pocahontas is to native american people what a disney film about a sexy, aged up Anne Frank falling in love with a nazi would be to jewish people. and I think about that a lot...
In fact there are real stories about Jews and Nazis being together or maybe even falling in love during ww2. I believe there was something like this in a movie "Black book" (if I remember the name correctly). But surely, stories like that should be done in a thoughtful manner without exploiting historical figures' lives
Kate S so true
She was 12.
@@jjkcharlie Anne Frank was 15, I believe, so it would be similar
@@jjkcharlie Don't confuse people with facts
"tourists, prepare to die!" should have been left in. what a great line.
what a great line. it's amazing that it was considered at all before being cut, given what was bankrolling the movie.
I heard "terrorists" lol
To be fair that movie was released in 2002, barely even a year after 9/11.
Would buy a t-shirt with that line.
@David Silverman Who are you talking about? The terrorists or the movie?
the "Savages" sequence would be a great portrayal of how humans see everyone else as the enemy if I hadn't spent the last two hours watching the natives just going about their business and the settlers shooting them on sight.
It's kind of like when you're a kid being bullied at school. For months, you're beaten to a pulp by this dickhead and the teachers do nothing. Then one day you hit back. Suddenly it's "you're just as bad as each other!" and "we have a zero tolerance policy". That's not how it works. You can't abuse people and then act all hurt when they get enough of your shit and fight back.
That is such an amazing analogy I might have to steal that line in future
@@searchingforausername9393 go ahead, it's based on a true story. My school did not handle bullying well.
The way the movie frames it is: natives going about but imprisoning and sentencing to death a foreigner without proof he's guilty, and the settlers shoot them on sight (but it's actually not their fault it's Radcliffe's who manipulates them)
I always watched that sequence thinking, "yeah the English are being dicks for the sake of being dicks."
But for the Indigenous it was more of a. "No no, they've got a point."
So I wasn’t beaten to a pulp but that did kinda happen with me, and with a few different people I know.
For me I was picked on for years by a boy at my school. He never beat me up but there was a lot of verbal abuse, taking my things etc. Teachers did nothing, no matter how many times I asked for help or my parents called into the school. My parents told me to just ignore him but if he ever made physical contact to fight back. One day he shoved me, I punched him in the face and he ran out the room crying. Suddenly I was getting calls home for violent behaviour. My parents asked them what they expected me to do when I knew I couldn’t trust teachers to help me before things got violent.
I know someone else who would get regularly attacked and picked on by older kids at school. Kid asked for help multiple times and teachers did nothing. Eventually these kids had him pinned up against a fence, beating him up. He kicked one of them in the shin as hard as he could and drew blood. Suddenly the teachers had a lot to say about this kid being violent. No one had the guts to tell the bullies parents that they were bullies and that’s why one of them had a bloody shin.
Not trying to question your point but it happens a lot.
Ok the fact that aloha oe is a song about losing one’s sovereign nation to American colonialism, but that I and everyone I’ve ever met just knows it as “that fun Hawaiian song” is... terribly on brand for America
Yup. Empire-Building, baby
"That Fun Hawaiian Song" - I'm white as fuck, but come on. The somber tone of "Aloha 'Oe" should've given it away as akin to "Danny Boy".
Internet Nerd Rant: It's also not actually about losing one's sovereign nation. If you check any resource (or the lyrics), they list it as inspired by the lovers' embrace of Colonel James Harbottle Boyd and a young woman (either the Queen's sister or a young lady at the ranch) as witnessed by Queen Liliʻuokalani in 1877, recorded in 1884. I can't seem to find ties between "Aloha 'Oe" and the annexation of Hawaii, but that's probably just bad searching on my part. And I concede that it's amazingly fitting given the loss.
Also, this isn't to say Queen Lili'uokalani didn't write songs about losing her sovereign nation to American colonialism. She reportedly wrote a lot of political songs during her imprisonment, the most notable being "Ke Aloha O Ka Haku" (The Queen's Prayer) about her imprisonment and what I bet got mixed up with "Aloha 'Oe".
Da shit? Even as a kid I knew that there was nothing "fun" about it. Sure I didn't know what it meant, but I knew Nani was trying to tell Lilo that she'd be with her, in her heart and that they'd never see each other again. Never got a fun vibe. It was a serious song to me before I even understood the words.
@@IshidaSado good for u? Not everyone learned that song from Pocahontas, some variations sound more upbeat... Some of us are dumb and that's okay 🤷🏼♀️
"america", you mean the united states
When Moana's grandma says "it's not your fault" the tears just materialize involuntarily.
Seriously, what a scene. Any movie scene involving some sort of loving grandma that passes away just destroys me since it reminds me of my own.
Főfasírozó wow you’re so different and unique
@Főfasírozó what
it's as if she's saying it to me :'(
And THEN immediately followed by the inspirational song I Am Moana.
Right in the feels...
Reading that Waititi hates the "talking to ghosts" trope made me think immediately of Ragnarok, where Korg (voiced by Waititi) runs in and kicks at Loki's disappearing projection, saying "piss off, ghost!"
I would not be surprised if Taika did that on purpose, but either way I love it
could also be a reference to this ad in new zealand: ua-cam.com/video/CtWirGxV7Q8/v-deo.html
It's a direct reference to an anti-drunk driving PSA from New Zealand
DizzyFromShirbert I don’t want your ghost chips 😂
I laugh every time
“This is not a documentary” then why couldn’t they just make up their own characters-
My thoughts exactly! Adapting fairytales are one thing, but Pocahontas was a real historical character and it’s disrespectful to portray her the way they did....
the same happens with anastasia from 1997 but hardly anyone criticizes that movie
same with the Hamilton musical tbh - though that’s received a lot of criticism recently,,
@@magicamish5498 I mean, does anyone care about it in Russia? I have absolutely no idea cause I do not have, nor do many of us have, a window into their world. Makes sense that Americans at the least, would have something to say about one of their historical figures.
@@magicamish5498
I don't hear anyone talk about Anastasia positively anymore, everyone just treats it as "That princess movie that wasn't Disneys and also kinda sucked"
I could’ve lived my life perfectly unknowing about Avril Lavigne singing “Mina sako, arigatou, kawaii”. Why have you done this to me?
If those of us who were there and saw it on MTV when it came out have to suffer SO DO YOU!!
Japanese people loved it though ...
@@kurisutofusan did they though? did they?
@Trash Goblin probably because the Japanese in Japan don't face the discrimination japanese minorities in America do on a daily basis, so they're fine with stuff like that
I know people who like it.
I think what makes Emperors New Groove not so culturally cringey is that its a comedy and doesn't have the most serious story.
yh i found it funny but now i realized they just used inca culture to sell a product with no real inca cutlture which kinda sucks, still a fun movie tho
@@RaiLongLee Somehow I don't think the movie would have been as interesting if it were set in medieval england
@@volaalov6254 Sure it would have because I never remember that that movie is set in Inca culture. You could 100% swap llama for goat or horse and all the Inca symbols for european ones and ziggurats for european castles and tell the exact same story with the exact same gags.
@@agilemind6241 But then people would bitch about all Disney movies being about "white people" and "white culture" and it isn't "inclusive enough." They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
@@bunny_0288 - Nah.
I never realized Moana & Pocahontas were almost identical until you broke it down. Holy crap.
shady boots yeah but Moana did it all better lol
They really aren't as similar as Lindsay makes them out to be, and she is definitely stretching for comedic effect. For all the similarities, there are some fundamental differences as well:
- Pocahontas gets a diplomatic mission, a traditionally feminine goal (because women are wiser and more compassionate and all that crap). Moana goes on an epic action-packed quest to save the world, a traditionally masculine role for the majority of recorded Western history.
- The primary male-female relationship in Pocahontas is a romantic intercultural one, while in Moana it's a partnership between mere mortal and creation deity. Also, whereas John Smith is merely a designated victim that Pocahontas must vouch for, Maui is the instigator of the conflict and actually has to undergo a redemption arc, which makes for a more tense and adversarial relationship.
- And as Lindsay explicitly points out in the latter half of this essay, Pocahontas was pretty much roped into her destiny and the story really only pays lip service to the idea that she actually has agency in the proceedings. Moana isn't bound by destiny, but rather chooses to follow it, even at her lowest point and at the behest of her grandmother.
shady boots to be fair you can actually do that with a lot of movies to make them sound the same.
Well, she used a bunch of rather vague statements to compare both movies in a comedic way. sure, there are similarities, but you could play that game with many pairs of movies.
Moana and Pocahintas have similar themes, but the core plots are different.
Can we appreciate that Spirit did a better job portraying the way colonialism was such barbarity.
Plus being objectively better as a movie
YES! Thank you!
@@kerrex86 more like irrelevant to the discussion
eh i love spirit, its my fav movie cuz sadly thats probably the best representation ill get lol, but the ending is questionable, like the evil white commander decides to stop his men from shooting Little Creek and Spirit after he starved and tortured them both? as is that if redeemable?
@@xanthippus3190 what the fuck???? Are you like from the 1800s why do you speak like you're coming back from the war in gone with the wind
God. As a lil island girl, Lilo would’ve gotten mad respect from me if they had kept her yelling at the tourists. I get that Moana is supposed to be good, non-sexualized representation of Islanders, but Lilo & Stitch was life changing. I’m not Hawaiian (I’m Chamorro), but even as a kid living on Oahu, I recognized that the other island kids and I were kind of commodities. Being in a halau was fun, but we performed at events mainly for tourists. Even as an adult, I’ve experienced people who sexualize or “exoticize” me once they realize I’m an Islander (they can’t tell what “type,” but they still recognize it). Nani and Lilo were my role models, and in a way they still are.
I know this is supposed to be a video about Disney’s representation of Indigenous people in general, but thank you for bringing up Pacific Islanders too.
It would be cool to see that fully animated some day.
The idea that sexualized depictions of women of color justifies violence against them is wrong because there is NO justification for violence against them. It’s like using the term “jailbait”: even if you’re criticizing it, you’re still validating the idea behind the term by using it.
A female character can be sexualized and still be a role model.
@@diamondminer5459 It doesn't justify but it contributes
Yup i know im.guilty of this even recently
I hate that part about people seeing you as exotic for being from somewhere that they aren't, it gives me anxiety that I might make someone else feel the same way for simply finding them attractive at all, like the reason is already decided for me and the end result is that they feel exploited and the last thing I want someone to feel is uncomfortable just being what they are.
I actually think watching Lilo and Stitch as a teen is what taught me to not focus on those differences because other than being really unimportant at the end of the day, it makes people feel dehumanized.
“Oh look a real native”
The fact I’ve heard this... multiple times
Emerald Sky oh no
really? Oh god, I hope you said sth like "oh look a real asshole" back :p
Where are you from? if it is okay to ask
I'm a Mazatlec Mexican and I remember a time [Chinese] tourists tried to take pics of my friends and I at my own city's Historic Center when we were in middle school.
Felipe Zatarain okay that’s stupid
If I had a nickel for every disney indigenous protagonist that turned into an animal to learn a lesson I'd have two nickels which isnt a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
Edit: I just realized what the word indigenous means sorry yall the rest of the comment kinda useless ❤️💫✨
I think you have five?
Joe( soul)- cat
Naveen/the prince( princess and the frog- frog
Emperors new groove guy( have not watched the movie I will one day- llama I think
Brother bear dude ( again did not watch I will)- bear
Also you could kinda count tiaia I think ( also from princess and the frog)
I don't know if you can consider Eleanor from Brave indigenous, but... the bear transformation
@@NameName-yj7lp the princess and the frog arent indigenous
@@tano3166
Ohhhhhh thank you
@@NameName-yj7lp you welcome I guess
During the Lilo and Stitch part i’m going to vaguely quote Sideways in a sentence that always make me cry.
“When she’s singing Aloha Oe, she’s saying goodbye in the most Hawaiian way she knows how.”
whats Sideways?
@@judas4544 UA-camr that does video essays on music, 10/10 would recommend
as a peruvian 20 year old, which means i pretty much grow up having this whole disney repertorio right in my hands i must say most of people our age love emperors grove; i think one of the reasons we do, is because it has modern elements, rather than being historical accurate, it accidenatly can represent how Peru is a very mixed culture place and also, a place that had been hitted a lot with globalization for the past 50 years, so obviously the movie is random as heck, but is entertaining and, also is nice to be mentioned there and also reconizing some of the inka culture references.
Exacto. Creo que la razón por la que no nos ofendemos con esa pela es xq realmente se nota que el objetivo no era representar nuestra cultura. Osea, Scouts hablando con ardillas en el imperio Incaico, nadie puede ver eso y decir que buscaba ser una representación cultural. También como dice el video, el hecho de que no tenga a colonizadores como personajes en la historia evita que crearamos juicios más culturales sobre la pela. Dicho esto, si me gustaria ver una pela que represente nuestra cultura, aunque preferiría que sea más a lo Lilo y Stitch que Moana.
Nunca pense de esa pelicula como algo indigena la verdad, me encantaba pero era mas como otra pelicula de disney
im peruvian and tbh i was just happy to even be MENTIONED in disney 😭ofc tho i would love for a newer story thats truer to the history/culture, but when i was a kid i didnt care about that i just liked telling people that hey, the emperors new school is set in my country!
@@gabbyvelasquez3767yesss exactly
As a Chilean that loves Perú and their people (and food), same.
What's with Americans defending us when we don't need defending?
As a Mexican I can get the criticisms about the GOOD rich white folks in the princess and the frog. However... I found Lottie's character really refreshing. I'm so sick of seeing the same rich, bitchy, spolied Daddy's girl who's like, " Like oh my gosh. I'm so mean. Lolz."
I like see it all the time so I was so happy to see Lottie not only be nice but have a personality at that.
Lottie's easily one of my favorite Disney characters for exactly that reason ^_^
Hmmm.... that's not the lesson I've taken from Lindsay's analyses. Shouldn't we be giving Disney/children's movies THE MOST scrutiny because these are the films that inform our worldview early into life.
Obviously entertainment should be the first priority, but skilled artists (and we're talking about a company that claims to hire the best artists) know how to combine entertainment with emotional and societal truths. Disney films usually aspire to this level of synthesis. With Princess and the Frog, Disney ignored a great opportunity to illustrate racism and injustice to its young viewers, many of whom will go on to learn of such concepts the hard way. The weird part is, they're no strangers to using racism as a theme in kids movies; look at Lindsay's comments on Lilo & Stitch, and newer films like Zootopia show they're still willing to take a crack at the subject (even if they have to lose a little to learn a little).
Idealized stories are nice, but they're not game-changing.
yeah, it was somewhat healing, totally unrealistic, but hey, it's disney and there is a place for wishfull thinking.
I freaking love Lottie!
But this is why I wanted them to do an Ancient African story. Plenty of Ancient African folktales that are still preserved that they can do. Sadly us American Blacks can't really have a story told without extreme tragedy. I mean you can't tell a story about Black family in Reconstruction and Jim Crow without something fucked up happening. I mean yuou could easy get lynched for looking at someone the wrong way. So that leaves black folks with post Civil Rights stories. And even then we gotta cut shit out. But it's miles better than anything before then. So they should have told an African story.
Okay, so some fun facts. Chris Sanders was the creative genius behind Lilo and Stitch, and How to Train Your Dragon ironically enough, and spent most of his writing time in Hawaii. He had a team around him to tell him if he'd gotten something wrong, and he did his best to portray Hawaii and its culture accurately. He didn't have this same opportunity for How to Train Your Dragon, but he had the books and days upon days of research into Viking culture to fall back on.
My point is that certain people who work for Disney (and Dreamworks) actually take the time and effort to tell a fun story without alienating and belittling an entire culture.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk
@High Definition What are you talking about? Lilo and Stitch was praised in this video. But no one is obligated to pretend that everything is absolutely perfect with it, and if white people can't have compassion for people of colour without being excessively praised, then those white people don't actually care.
@High Definition Well... yeah, of course the movies still get criticized. That's what criticism is about. That's what free speech is about. Or are you saying they should be free from criticism just because they _tried?_ There is not a single work of art in the world that does not deserve criticism.
Furthermore, your claim that the end goal of that criticism is that "white people were only able to tell stories about white people, black people about black people" is ludicrous. The goal is that stories are told well, not to stop people from telling specific types of stories.
@@Nixitur aHAH the perfect comeback here
There is a fuckton wrong with HTTYD. The catchphrase "Oh My Thor" is very cringy. That's not respectful... Gods in the Nordic religions are usually spoken of in euphemistic form: Grey Wanderer, Furious One, The Weavers, Ocean Drinker, and so on... It even went so far that the most respected of the Gods were never mentioned by name and we have no idea what their names were. For example, the Bear God. In this particular case, even the word Bear/Bjorn is a euphemism meaning brown one. The Volga Rus called the Bear Medved (honey eater) for the same reason. Meanwhile in Rome, there was no veneration of the Scandinavian Bear God, so they called bears Ursus and the Greeks said Arktos. (Yes, these peoples are related. Not recently, but were the same people at the beginning of the Bronze Age.)
Lilo and Stich and How to Train your dragon are both 10x better than Pocahontas any way. I saw Pocahontas a few times as a kid and I didn't dislike it as I didn't know anything about the historical context, but it never had that charm like the aformentioned and other animated films do. So I think that making an effort pays off because the characters in Lilo and Stitch were much more realistic, where as Pocahontas' felt highly fake positive and like their emotions were purely for the sake of the storyline (and no fat guys with their ice cream falling on the floor)
i feel like it’s important to say that colonialism never ended and that it’s still happening in third world countries. indigenous people are still being murdered and their culture is still being erased. please help indigenous causes with your money or time 🙏🏻
still happening in first world countries too!
leonard peltier is still in prison for a murder that ballistic evidence demonstrated he didn't do. but he was an american indian activist and the fbi had such a problem with that, 5hat they wouldn't even show evidence that could acquit him in court. he's been denied a retrial and will most likely stay in american prison until his death.
it's happening in "first world" countries too.
Colonialism is still happening in the United States. Puerto Rico is still a colony, just under a different name. Third world countries need help, but maybe start by helping the natives in the US and the colonized in its territories, since they're much more close to home 🤷🏽♀️
@@lolitagodlover Kind of funny, U.S. used to colonise Philippines and yet even living in independence, many Filipinos still wish we were still under U.S. (just see the crappy line of our corrupt polies). We're the biggest xenophiles all around. Our cuisine appropriates a lot of what our former colonisers had (Spain, U.S., Japan).
Something Lindsay doesn't talk about here is the marketing campaign for Pocahontas -- specifically, one line we couldn't escape. It was in every plug, every radio and tv commercial, every preview and even every toy commercial. Pocahontas was going to be (drum roll please) The First Animated Disney Movie Since Snow White to Have No Talking Animals. Now, I forget exactly why, but my family had to wait until it came out on VHS (probably because we were too broke to afford a theatre experience at the time). We sat down and watched it as a family, and when it was over my mom asked us kids what we thought of it. Before my brother could say anything, I replied with, "The First Animated Disney Movie Since Snow White to Have No Talking Animals. INSTEAD WE HAVE A TALKING TREE! BECAUSE THAT'S BETTER!"
😂Oh my gawd that's hilarious!😂
I know I'm late to this party, but just want to point out that there are no talking animals in Peter Pan and Sleeping Beauty (I think) so I think you may misremember the marketing campaign. Also Fantasia, but that seems like cheating since every thing is in musical segments.
@@johankvang7464Sleeping Beauty and Peter Pan both had talking mythical creatures tho, so in a sense the tagline made sense. But on the other hand, a talking tree should also count among those if consistency is what we’re aiming for lol
I disagree with the statement that Mulan picked symbols from all over Asia. In fact, as someone who studied China in uni, I found the potrayal to be quite accurate. The "Japanese" and "Korean" elements that most people point to are in fact ancient Chinese. The reason so many people associate them with Japan and Korea is because they borrowed many ancient Chinese cultural elements. One example is Mulan's clothing, often mistaken as a kimono. In fact, its actually a hanfu, a traditional Chinese clothing that heavily influenced the development of the kimono in Japan, thats why they looked similar. Most people wrongly identify the cheongsam or qipao as the traditional Chinese clothing when it is in fact the hanfu. Another example is Mulan's makeup, often identified as geisha makeup. In fact, it is actually based on the Chinese Tang dynasty makeup that influenced the Japanese makeup styles.
I mean, Disney openly admits to making Mulan's aesthetic from a melange of different Chinese dynasties in one of their making of videos. Yes, I would say maybe not from Korean and Japanese culture, but you have to admit, the movie blends elements from across millennia of Chinese cultural development, making the setting more of a fantasy, out of time China than any specific time period piece.
KeiKoAbyss + Thats true, but then again, the dynasty in the original tale was inconsistent between various different versions, so it kinda makes sense for Disney to take various aspects from different dynasties rather than just one
The real way to decide how faithful the depiction of the chinese was is to count how many times the word 'honour' is used. Too many and you're stepping on Japan's toes a bit.
rocker26a rocker26a rocker26a I think Mulan depicts Chinese very well. In my opinion, Chinese people value honour just as much as Japanese people, but in different ways. I think because a lot of Japanese culture is widely known now nowadays many people know about their serious honour system. Chinese people also value honour, but its more of their family's honour than their own (i dont know a lot about Japanese honour but in my opinion its more centered around themselves like how samurai commit seppuku in defeat). Anyways, I don't wanna rant and its not like I am rebutting your opinion or think your opinion is wrong, but everything Mulan does is to earn that family honour (marriage at the beginning, her ancestors, her father) so I think that everytime the movie (excessively) mentions honour it is referencing to how we value it. so yea i think it mulan does mention honour a lot but it is nowhere near japanese culture
rocker26a holy crap i typed a lot yikes 😬
So i tried taking the Pocahontas advice of "listening with my heart" for my Spanish exam. I ended up failing.
Well did you wait for voice of your dead grandmother to guide you?
@@HERSHISKISS Wait I was supposed to talk to the dead first! No wonder I failed.
@@peacefulinvasion Necromancy makes everything better.
+Terezi Pyrope How do you even "Listen with your heart"?
maybe try to lick the words instead?
Frozen gave me as a Norwegian an insight into how it feels to have one's culture disneyfied. It's exceptionally weird
I pray they will do Slavic princess one day, I want to know how it feels lol
@@winterviveca5976 …I was gonna say Anastasia, but I keep forgetting that wasn’t Disney. >.>
@@Lyendith yeah and Anastasia's story is Pocahontas level of unhinged
For these reason I hope we get an Italian Princess but I doubt that’ll happen
@@silyknow At least you have Pinocchio. Not princess, but Italian
An interesting thing about Lilo & Stitch when it comes to heritage and all that jazz is that you can see words taped to objects and rooms through the house so that Lilo learns the language. I remember this really resonating with me as a kid, because I was going through a similar situation of losing my culture's language (I'm descended from Filipino immigrants, neither of whom learned Tagalog much past the age of five). It's never mentioned, and not at all relevant to the plot, but it's such a nice little detail that makes their situation feel much more real.
“Tourists! Prepare to dieeeeeeeeeee!”
I only just realized she didn’t say “terrorists.”
Funny, for some reason, when I heard that, I thought it sounded like something from a Peanuts special (presumably spoken by Lucy).
Mick Dogo top 5 places to never play this clip:
Airports,
Airports,
All public spaces
The whitehouse
US Airports
This joke line alone made me so sad they cut this whole sequence off xD
@@schboove2668 Tourists. Terrorists. Same thing
For what it's worth, Lilo and Stitch is a masterpiece of animation.
It's the last truly artistic Disney film that can cater to both kids and adults due to the multilayered plot, and it has a traditional message in a radical form.
And man, I still tear up at the songs.
uggh its s good and it really integrates the crazy shit well an still makes you feel something for the characters.
My husband watch it for the first time a few weeks ago and cried in a lot of scenes. He was so surprised. He didn't thought a movie about cute aliens made by Disney was gonna be so powerful. Such a great movie 💕
A criminally underrated and unloved film that showed some real life issues apart from the alien plot.
I really like that movie
That's right so much so it should have been considered the end of the renaissance
As a european, this movie was my first (and for a long time only) representation of native american history, and it was the cutest, most fairytale like film ever in my tiny girl heart.
This film did not age well as you learn, you know, actual history, lol.
Yeah trust me,
As a kid (like 4 or 5), I honestly thought that this movie was accurate about history but until I started learning actual history and when I learned about history. I felt really dumb, but yet again I was really young so 🤔
I loved it, too! My last name is Smith, so I had a crush on John Smith - not a super complex crush! Now, I know the film is problematic, but I still love the songs. I even bought a coon cap when I went to Disneyland in middle school. I can't deny my enjoyment of the film - it was certainly made by talented people - but I can freely admit that it's a fairy tale, and a pretty one at that. Guess we all do that with our childhood in some form or another!
@@SilentRuth10 😐😐😐
@@SilentRuth10 not all….
When people talk about oversexualized indiginous disney princesses Kida often gets left out of the conversation even though her design falls into the exact same problem
Probably because she's the one indigenous princess whose ethnicity is basically fully made up. Still, the similarities with Esmeralda and the lot are apparent.
The whole "obese maui" thing was bull tho. Maui isnt obese, he is not even fat, that is all muscle. The Rock's grandfather looked like that too. But noooooo just cuz he isnt tots jacked the media decided that "ooo no Disney is portraying this Demigod from another culture as obese!!". Not to meantion how his body mass never moves like fat does. Its muscle, just a different body type.
Yeah, he just looked like a muscular endomorph to me.
I never thought 'fat' when I saw Maui. Stocky, yes, but I know people who are VERY muscular, but because that muscle isn't carved into them like a comic book character, people assume 'fat'.
People thought he looked obese? He just looked like a guy who could crush the life out of anyone with his bare hands to me. O.o
ya a screenshot of an article about it shows up in the video at some point
ニンジン he dosent look fat but buff, like a huge person.
We Peruvians, absolutely love Kuzco. He’s magnificent and funny, plus Perú loves being mentioned in pop culture stuff.
Do native peruvians think that too?
Honestly anytime we get mentioned anywhere in stuff, we get a hard on lol
@@HurrayTsk Are you under the impression most Peruvians don't have native dna, dumbfuck?
@@HurrayTsk lmaooo do you even know anything about Peru's population and ethnicities?
@@TheLittleFangirl Argentinian here; but I have a good bunch of friends from around all of SA, and let me tell, most Peruvians have a good deal of native blood. So, dude, check ur facts. There are white people in Perú? Yes. There are full native people? Also yes. There are mestizos? Of course, they arw thw majority of the population.
Get lost kiddo; your ass has been whooped.
"My grandparents used to brag they were 1/64th native American and that makes me proud" - Johnny Depp probably
i may not like pocahontas, but the savages song kind of slaps
yup its problematic but catchy
@@stargirlabi_111 kind've like the whole movie
@@LincolnAKAVenox LMAO
@@LincolnAKAVenox
Eh idk man the moive feels so boring to me
Sure it looks pretty but it just feels bland
Pocahontas has some of my favourite songs out of most Disney movies but GOD do I feel icky interacting with the movie in any way
"This is a Disney film"..... "she needs to be sexy" two lines that should never be put together
Unless you are a somewhat perv over 30 with a dark sense of humor and a love of Rule 34, that is.
Makes it kinda even creepier when you realize pocahontas was 12 irl
not really, she isn't in the movie, no one is saying the 12 year old needs to be sexy, they specifically aged her up so they could make her sexy.
To be clear "She needs to be sexy" Is stupid, but i strongly disagree that it is at all creepy
EccentricSage ok but what about shrek
um.. dreamworks
Yeah, but ‘Colours of the Wind’ is still pretty terrific.
True
How dare you Sir!
Ahem, *Colors*.... Spelling it the British way is cultural appropriation...
Favourite Disney song.
@@chicodepuertorico1450 As a Canadian, I give you formal approval to spell it as "colours", Sorry, eh?
That hammock scene from Lilo & Stitch absolutely wrecks me every time.
I just want to say, your entire break-down of "cultural appropriation" was what broke the stupid mental conditioning I'd subjected myself to against more feminist and serious ideas on systemic issues, that developed after immersing myself in the stupid gamergate community.
Wow. Could you elaborate? I’m interested
@@mirandajones7816 Sure!
So, back when the whole GamerGate fiasco was starting up, I was exposed to the "ethics in journalism" side of things by an internet friend, and so without really looking passed that, I automatically took that side, thinking "Yeah, what these supposed journalists are doing is pretty fucked". So for a while, I completely immersed myself within the "anti-feminist" side of the internet.
Notably, I still considered myself liberal, or "on the left", and there were lots of other "liberals who are tired of third-wave feminism" (whatever *THAT* means) who were basically signal boosting literal misogynists, because they'd convinced themselves that they don't like politics affecting their hobbies. Besides, "feminism has already accomplished it's goals. Women are equal in America, so just go advocate in other countries", was a mindset that I and many others adopted to justify our opposition. We as a society were "good enough", so making things better didn't make sense.
Later, after I'd left most of the communities relating to GamerGate, I was still stuck with a negative feeling towards words like "cultural appropriation", because in my minds those were just "Tumblr buzzwords", so I never took the ideas seriously. But at some point I started watching Video Essays, mostly Lindsay Ellis's, and this video came up. No one had ever bothered to explain what "Cultural Appropriation" meant in detail, and I never bothered looking up what it was about myself, but listening to her explain it as a neutral term had me question everything else I'd convinced myself of in the several years prior.
Granted, it was a slow transition, but I think once I arrived at the conclusion that "maybe my entire conception of feminism is based on stereotypes of teenagers on the internet, and I never seriously engaged with one in good faith", it became easy to look back at what had happened during GamerGate and realize the "ethics in game journalism" narrative was always just a bold-faced lie that only the naive took seriously.
@@109Rage It feels like you've just been re-pilled instead of actually reaching any kind of new understanding here. Like, the "ethics in gaming journalism" is a real thing that is continuing today. Most of the central figures gamergate took aim at... Kind of are really awful human beings who are misrepresenting things and intentionally being divisive for personal gain or because of their own narcissistic delusions. The key point Gamergate was trying to make was basically true, people overreacting to that doesn't make it not true.
It is possible to reconcile that current media attention particularly around gaming is often toxic, and that maybe death threats and those sorts of harassment campaigns are also bad.
Also the concept of cultural appropriation is really new, basically entirely western and kind of nonsense from any sort of cultural or historical perspective. At best it's gatekeeping, at worst it's weaponizing identity politics often in a racialised way.
Edit: Also, Lindsey's description of cultural appropriation is... Slightly off. It's got that leftist-academic veneer of slagging people off while saying they're not, being purposefully aggressive in a facetious way. Appropriation? Really?
Show me a culture that does not appropriate, and you will have shown me a closed-off culture that is not very open to outside influences or new ideas and is probably xenophobic.
@@thescariestthing3027 Can you be more precise about why Lindsey's description of cultural appropriation is off ?
I'm gonna be real - even now, as an adult man, whenever I hear Moana's grandmother tell her it's not her fault I tear up. I wish someone had told me that as a child.
me too haha. Actually come to think of it, I did have a tiny flicker of that. My mom was constantly ripping me apart over minute, inconsistent and unpredictable things, and then would blame me for being the one who loved to fight and start drama (when I literally would just be trying to eat dinner or get by day to day)....and there was one time, ONE time when my grandmother happened to be there. My mom started one of her usual tirades about how awful and shitty I was and stormed off. I was sitting at the table crying, trying to swallow my stupid pizza over the lump in my throat. And my grandmother looked across the table and was like "It's not you. She's not really mad at you. She's just under a lot of stress." And I remember thinking....what?!! That was such a foriegn, foreign concept to me. It didn't change my life or anything....I saw my grandmother only once a year so I didn't get much defending from anyone....my mom continued her onslaught of me on the regular. But for that one glorious moment, a tiny weight was lifted, a beam of light shown in through the darkness that maybe, maaaaaaaaybe all this time it was just my mom being a jerk and not me after all lol. I remember feeling genuinely confused when my grandmother made that remark because I did internalize everything my mom said. But looking back now, I can see so obviously that she was right. It makes me sad how much parents and crush their children like that because they don't know any better. But yeah. okay wow major tangent
Man, I just teared up watching that part of this video. Though the part I usually tear up is the look on Moana's face when she realizes who Te Ka truly is.
And don't even get me started on Coco. I probably cried for the last twenty minutes of the film the first time I watched it.
Nicholas Nace same. Their relationship really touched me. I always wanted something like that as a child.
Its not your fault
Moana is my absolute favourite Disney movie. I love that entire scene. I love that the song is an amalgum of several songs that had come before to build to that one proud proclaimation. I've got chills just writing this.
I saw the movie by myself and then strongly urged my sister and her two kids to go see it with me. I wanted to see it again and share it.
I love this movie so, so much.
And yet there's one minority group Disney won't touch with a ten foot pole... the gays.
false! all disney villains especially ursula are gay
@@abbyjowalker8403 Ursula is a drag queen, not the same 😂
Frozen had that gay shopkeeper.
@@abbyjowalker8403 How so?
Sid New the Disney villains are gay-coded-they have traits commonly associated with gay people. The male villains are extremely effeminate and worried about their appearances (think about Hades’ dramatics, Gaston’s narcissism, Governor Ratcliffe’s/Jafar’s/Professor Ratigan’s/Dr. Facilier’s/Captain Hook’s femininity). Ursula, a female villain, was based off of a drag queen called Divine (drag queens are 99% gay men). Other female villains have this same drag makeup look-Evil Queen, Maleficent, Cruella DeVil.
I watch Moana about 6 times a week on Disney+ because my 2 year old loves it, and one thing that always pisses me off is that when Maui is chanting (what I think is) a haka, the subtitles read "shouting in foreign language". Like, Disney? You made this movie? You know what language this is? Also, anything not white and English is "foreign"? Come on.
I was in the same situation at 14yo, watching Lilo and Stitch roughly 6/7 times a week for months because my 2yo sister loved it, I love that history can repeat itself in good ways :)
This is the first time I have heard someone other than myself say: "Progress is not always linear."
Pocahontas sucks as a story but I could never get over the animation. I loved how everything was stylized and the use of colour was gorgeous.
N M I love the music too
And how she looked like an actual human ahem supermodel not a big headed twig waisted something 😂
It’s okay as a guilty pleasure lol
Bad /problematic movies can be gorgeous too
The muuuuuuusic
Nani is the best disney girl, besides Kuzco
David is also a great person, imo
Kuzco has always been my favorite Disney Princess!
Kuzco's the best hands down! He's got the moves, he's got the charm and the looks! 😎🤣🤣🤣🤣
Dreary Solitude Totally underrated
Laura Starck David is a good boi
Dang bollywood america looks great
Fr I want to live there
Ah, yes, the notional "Native American" ancestor. I have that story from both sides of my family, actually. Interestingly, when I got my ancestry report from 23andme (and yes, I know that kind of thing isn't perfectly accurate, but it's still interesting) it didn't show any Native or even Asian ancestry, but it *did* show African ancestry. Interesting that my southern grandparents never said anything about *that*, huh?
Actually, its often true about people having that Native American in them. Even if your great granddad was 100% Native and the rest of your family was European. You could be anywhere from 12%-2% native despite it being 1/8th of your ancestry.
Most DNA sites explain this, hence why siblings can have varying ancestry.
The Native American would take VERY few generations to breed out when yous only interacted a few centuries ago. Whereas, us Africans, Europeans and Asians being in close proximity for 1000s of years mean that we can all be very mixed despite our recent family all being the same race.
THAT is probably why they never mentioned it.
Just how large of a percentage was it, anyways?
Angus Amo Swadloons Not much. Less than 5%. But it seems likely that my great grandma who was supposedly “part Native” was actually a white passing woman with African ancestry. **shrug** Not that it makes any meaningful difference now. The racial identities of ancestors I never actually met really doesn’t have an impact on my day to day.
wasn't it a thing that during the one drop rule times, people often claimed that black ancestors were actually native to be able to avoid problems? only that they lied intentionally
A little correction, Mulan uses just chinese elements, the great problem is that they're picked up from different time periods (Han, Qin, Tang and Ming dinasties mainly). Great Movie though
Apparently the ideas they keep saying will be used for the live-action version is going to be accurate to the time period (so no more Hans anymore). Though the rest of the ideas sound like garbage so...
Rawr (And to a certain extent, certain periods are so different from one another it is like comparing to different Asian countries. And we all know how much they LOVE that. )
Most historical fantasy based movies tend to pull from a variety of eras. Greek and Roman aspects are super likely to be melded together indiscriminately.
@@DoctorLazers Good point. See the Disney version of Heracles being named / titled using the Roman form "Hercules" (which Lindsay does mention in her video about that movie).
To be fair, the original story of Hua Mulan is pretty hard to pinpoint where, in time, it took place, and also took influences from different dynasties in Chinese history, so it makes sense that the adaptation does the same thing.
"Water is the metaphor it's wild and deep like me" made me chuckle.
Yeah, I kind of want to get a copy of that song.
I'm dying
It made me wet myself ...
I mean, the name Moana literally translates as "ocean", so it's really all there in the title. They certainly didn't make it subtle.
It... Describes mee~
As a Canadian we/I are just now scratching the surface of how f'd up our treatment of indigenous people is and has been. I remember seeing Pocahontas and not being aware of just how bad it was. That's a problem.
Bro I can’t lie, I had to pause and tear up a bit during the Lilo and Stitch part because holy shit did that part resonate with me. Craziest part? It wasn’t the part of Nani singing to Lilo, it was the deleted scene take. I am from the Caribbean and my island’s main source of income is tourism. We see a lot of foreigners in town and at our beaches and my dad is even a taxi driver guide. I remember so many times where I’d join him for work and the tourists would treat us like these strange new animals that were just oh so fascinating. One thing I remember is we could just be out in places tourist might visit like a historical site or something and tourists would stop us to take pictures, shove money in our hands and ask us to sing or just talk. It was always kinda scary and felt odd especially when I was by myself. That “she is a commodity in her own country” line hit way harder than it should have.
Cuzco is best disney princess.
Bibliophilography : "Princess!? Bitch, please. I'm an EMPEROR."
Bibliophilography yes.
Bibliophilography Most fab princess at least.
I personally think Kylo Ren is the best Disney princess but now that you bring Cuzco up... I think Kylo's been challenged on my list.
No, Prince John from Robin Hood is.
"unless you are super into anime" ....
why you gotta call me out like that
Was thinking of Zetsubou Sensei and Bamboo Blade during that segment....
Did you know that wearing neckties is kind of a form of appropriation? So, I'm from Croatia and one thing people here are really proud of is the fact that the tie, you know the thing we see everyday is kind of our product.
So, during the 30 years war in France Croatian mercenaries wore traditional neckerchiefs around their necks. It interested the French, got adopted by Louis XIV and thus the trend was born. The word "cravat" actually comes from a word "Croat", a french word for "Croatians". We actually call a tie "kravata", which is weird when you think about it-we call a piece of clothing by the name that came from appropriating the name of our people.
seriously, look up paintings of kings and other important men of the pre 30-year war era- NONE wear any kind of tie-they have those ruffled collars.
Don't worry however, most Croatians are actually really, really proud of this, We literally have "a tie day" on October 18. Often a tie is worn by kids, both girls and boys, to school that day, many statues are decorated by a tie and one time they even put a gigantic tie on the tower of a pre-medieval castle in my own city.
Nisam znala da imamo neki blagdan za kravate hahaha. Ovo je bio zanimljiva činjenica, hvala na dijelenju
@@kyro4130 Ne bi ni ja znala da nismo taj dan u srednjoj stvarno nosili kravate i da se zadnjih nekoliko godina nisam, makar površno, zainteresirala za povijest mode.
Modern neckties don't really have much to do with that old garment, it's not appropriation - however at the time it was adopted by everyone. Knotting something around the neck doesn't equal the kravata, otherwise the people who invented scarves could claim croatians actually appropriated that. Plus it went through so many transformations that it doesn't even resemble it, having the purpose of covering the shirt's buttons rather than adorning the neck area.
It's like chairs, one culture can't claim to have invented the chair, because it's such a generic thing to sit down on an object. Same goes for tying something around the neck.
@@Icewateronskin ok white boy, be insecure about ur neck cloth origins then
Great point, Elena, thanks for sharing this. I did not know about the neck tie.
This is how clothing evolved all throughout history. The sharing of styles, the sharing of fashion.
Normally it would bring a sense of pride (and profit) to have people from other lands desiring to wear, and to trade you for, clothing that you make.
Adaptations are made to fashion based on demand, and a lot of this demand was as simple as comfortability and durability.
The tanned deer skin was a very profitable product when settlers began coming here, and we traded our clothing for theirs.
The Choctaw specifically adapted French fashion almost immediately, and they still largely dress in French style clothinf as their "traditional" attire. Why? Because it was more breathable. They liked it and they kept using it.
Nowadays, cultures have blended to the point that we mostly all dress the same (jeans and a t-shirt, blouses, etc). It doesn't even vary so much when you travel out of the country.
That being said, I think it is a bit sad to nock the clothing styles that did not catch on as quickly in this exchange.
People still make proditable businesses selling jewelry and clothing (especially online) and if we sit here telling people "you can only wear clothing from your own culture" well, that is very limiting... Not just for the "privileged" people (it actually affects them less), but for the people who are still trying to grow a business and turn a profit as they proudly share their own culture.
In summary, I sometimes worry about *who* actually benefits from the constant shouting of "cultural appropriation!".
Can we all just take a moment and give Megamind the love and praise it deserves?
It was so overshadowed by Despicable Me, I shed at least a jar of tears every night thinking about it.
20:39 YOU CAN'T JUST DROP ALOHA OE ON ME LIKE THAT I'M IN PUBLIC
Wdym?
Ana That scene is really beautiful, probably will make the commenter cry because of the sheer beauty
No Sh^t! That part makes me cry to begin with and I only just found out the song's history (before watching this) when you dropped that clip on me!!!!
I was at work and I cried so bad
it's three am and im sobbing miserably we gotchu kimmy
I'm 20 minutes in, and one quick judgement: in many native tribes it is believed that everything has a spirit. Mom used to yell at me for kicking rocks (we're Ojibwe)
My mum told me to eat every grain or rice in my bowl, or the spirits in each grain will make me ugly.
@Spirit you should go behind her back and learn as much as you can! i'm native but i'm 17 and i'm just now learning about my language and traditions.
that is so beautiful to me 😭
@@Harmony-wj8ji Omg, moms always go to the extremes to make you eat 🤣
ayeee i’m ojibwe too!
I'm Indigenous but I grew up with Pocahontas as one of my only representations so I see its flaws but I also see where they tried to do some things right (like hiring native actors/actresses just as one thing). I always saw Pocahontas and John (in the movie) as a great example of an indigenous person teaching someone about their faults and helping them to be better, I never saw John as a "white savior" like so many seem to, idk..
That's because I don't think he was portrayed as such. He is portrayed to be very flawed - ignorant and arrogant - at the beginning, and only started to become a decent person once he became familiar with the way native americans viewed the world. The actual force of change is Pocahontas, not John Smith, who is kind of just the messenger.
Also, saving the tribe's chief impulsively is not saviourism, but a move to prevent unnecessary political conflict and war. In which case the real force of change was also Pocahontas, who shielded John with her own body first. The movie also ends with the colonialists leaving.
So I don't know... my own uninfluenced takeaway when I was a teenager was that there is plenty to learn from native (non-white) communities and in many ways, their way of living is more noble than my own.
Same. I finally saw someone like me
same lol. people talking for natives and american mixed natives are so annoying. let us have something, my god.
I mean, I think Lindsay said this as well in the beginning--that the movie is a step forward, but a very flawed one, whose flaws will get more apparent as time goes on, and people's understanding of the history becomes more complete. The both-sides-ism of the savages song was definitely an attempt to neutralize some of the colonialists' crimes imo. But, I also understanding wanting to have something that references you, even if imperfectly. I think the point here is to recognize where it was weak, for a better second try.
It served one useful purpose. A friend went to see Avatar. He returned and answered our queries; “Pocahontas with gunships.” And that was my £20.00 saved.
LILO and stitch was a work of art for Disney. It makes me mad that it isn't given the respect it deserves.
Ashtyn Carroll And that one eyed alien is FABULOUS in all the right ways if you get my drift.
Lilo and Stitch is one of my top favorite Disney movies. Seeing clips of that deleted scene for the first time, I have to say I agree with Lindsey. That should have been kept.
Yeah but having a little girl scream "Oh no, terrorists!" in the early 2000s may not have gone over well.
They should have kept it in. Otherwise, the terrorists win.
Tate Hildyard She screams "Tourists prepare to die"
Lilo and stitch has always been my favourite disney movie, there was something so genuine about Lilo and Nani's relationship that I personally feel disney never really captured again, perhaps it's because like you said Nani felt real and not something created to market in a specific way. I still cry even today at the Aloha oi scene and now that I see that it has a much deeper and hidden meaning im not sure I'll be able to stop crying next time I watch it.
Ducker Z if you wanna cry more about Aloha Oe or just Hawaiian history in general, I'd recommend reading "Hawaii's Story" a book written by Queen Liliʻuokalani about the theft and occupation of her nation. Sad shit, man. America fuckin sucks tbh
bill murray sounds very sad and and facinating I shall check it out thank you for the recomendation!
Nani is one of my favourite Disney characters for that reason. She's the only young/teenage female hero character I can think of (pre-Moana) that doesn't have the 'ideal' hourglass body type either, adding to her realness. I hate that she's fallen through the cracks and has been mostly ignored in any Disney-themed discussions and analysis, even when discussing the sisterly love of Frozen, which is credited by some as the first time that kind of love has ever been the focus of a Disney movie. Sure, it's overshadowed by the Stitch/alien portion of the plot, but it still plays a huge part and without it, "Lilo and Stitch" wouldn't have been nearly as good or impactful. I also hate how she has been portrayed in "Lilo and Stitch" sequels/series but I personally don't count those as canon.
When Lindsay was just mentioning that Aloha Oe scene, even before she showed it and got into detail, I started to get a little teary-eyed because it's one of the most touching, beautiful and meaningful moments in a Disney movie. Lilo and Nani's story hits me at a very personal level though, so maybe I'm biased.
The relationship between Nani and Lilo is much more convincing to me than that of Anna and Elsa in Frozen, since Frozen doesn't explore their relationship much, so their love just feels like the kind of "you have to love your family" kind of love along with Anna just being a nice person. It's not as genuine. I mean, it suits a fairy tale alright, but nobody should be going out and saying it's the best animated depiction of sister love or anything.
happychaosofthenorth I totally get what you mean. I think it's a shame that Disney always feels the need to resort back to princess stuff in order to get butts in seats, I like moana and I feel they did a great job fixing some past mistakes but it still isnt as poweful as a lot of the other non princess disney films, and I think it's a shame that because of that we're probably never likely to see someone like Nani ever again.
Pocahontas has an especial place in my heart, because growing up latina, having no Disney princess or princess in general that look like me in the media, she was the closest. Her skin was darker, she wasn’t white, and neither was I. It took me some years to comprehend that we weren’t in fact the same lol I was a kid after all but at the time it made me feel like a could belong somewhere.
Leaving that aside, this is a very good and insightful video and I’m glad I finally watch it✨
THANK YOU! as a native i've always been disgusted with disney's portrayal of pocahontas, not just because it was horribly inaccurate and awful, but also because disney somehow felt it was okay to take a tragic story that's important to many of our tribal histories and turn it into a (EXTREMELY sugarcoated) animated fantasy feature???? wtf!!
It's a movie, it's not a history book
The lilo and stitch part always makes me cry a little, and seeing that deleted seen makes me even sadder that they cut it! That’s exactly what it feels like... for me it was a little flipped, I have Hawaiian blood, I’m from Hawai’i and then I moved to California. It felt awful to constantly be out of place, I was asked if I had WiFi in Hawai’i, they asked if I liked coconuts or pineapples or if I even had cars... it sucked. I was called the Hawaiian girl and I felt like the tourist attraction. Even back home in Hawai’i you can’t escape it.
I’ve had other friends get into arguments with other kids that said Hawaiian wasn’t a language. It’s not their fault, we can’t expect them to not know if they aren’t educated but it still hurts..
Same with being an Alaskan literally anywhere in the world
@@jasonwalker9471 100% agree. I've lived in China and Japan as a half-Chinese American, and I think my Asian appearance has made people more bold about asking "offensive" things and asserting stereotypes (because I somewhat "fit into their tribe"). At first I was pretty taken aback, even slightly offended, but I have come to recognize that it's just because the natural state is ignorance, and people will approach things from what their societal background has given them because- well of course. There is more of a case that Americans should have more cultural knowledge, because it is a comparatively diverse country, but especially on an interpersonal level we should be more patient. Becoming educated takes alot of time and overwriting of our programming.
@@jasonwalker9471 true, and the OP is very understanding. They also mention at the end that people just didn't know.
@@jasonwalker9471 lmao Jason you seem like an overbearing twat. All the op was doing was sharing their experience, so yes it's going to be about them.
I mean, the movie aired in 2002, barely even a year after 9/11 so that most likely influnced the cutting of that scene.
I had to laugh at the Bollywood scene with Americans because the scene is so funny and harmless.
as a non american i can confirm that is 100% how i view yall
As an American, fair enough.
Lmao
As a European, I can confirm that's pretty much how most people here view you guys.
@@whateverworksmate.721 seconded
I love how you explained the problem with Charlotte.
To be fair, I enjoyed Charlotte as a character. But her main problem is what I think the main problem is with all the characters.
Her agency.
Seeing how she wanted to marry a prince is fine. But it has little to do with the story. Her role only comes into play when she has to kiss the prince and that’s it.
It also doesn’t help that she and Tiana are after the same guy. But because the story goes so far out of it’s way to show her and Tiana are such good friends. It eliminates any stakes the two would have. So it’s pretty weak.
In other words, Charlotte is just the comic relief with a point in the story.
So yeah. Princess and the Frog is a good movie. But because the motivations are weak and the stakes are absent. It eliminates any sort of agency from the characters.
And to add what could’ve been better with Charlotte having a stake was that she WANTED to marry Naveen. But her NEED was to find a guy that cared about her. Such as that guy she ditched at the beginning.
I get what you're saying but I cannot imagine a world where making lottie and tiana compete over naveen made anything but an awful fucking movie. it would've been nice for her to have more agency, but to make a film that was pretty feminist for its time instead have two female friends compete for a man would've been a dogshit decision
After taking a class on the Native American Experience, which I will not try to convince myself or anyone qualifies me in any way to make a qualified judgment of Pocahontas...watching Pocahontas again, I actually saw a lot of real references and a better understanding than I originally judged. (My class was taught by American Indians). Of course, differences exist between all of the First Peoples, but, considering the connections I felt were very meaningful, I doubt there was no research done. Totally accurate? Not at all. Completely ignorant? Also, no. The wrong time to continue to use the fetishization Indigenous people and white apology? Absolutely.
Agreed!!!
One point in regards to Moana, while there may be a stereotype relating Polynesian people to coconuts, Moana's use of them was historically and culturally accurate. The coconut tree was key to the everyday lives and survival of people in this region, and was used exactly how the song describes its use. Now, I acknowledge that Moana, as much as I love it, is not perfect, but it was historically accurate in its depiction of how many Polynesian tribes lived, from their use of the coconut tree, to the animals they raised, to their style of boat-building, and the methods employed by voyagers.
Thanatos, thank you!
Totally agree. Plus it worked well in the context of the themes of the song, that you have everything you need on the island to live comfortably-trying to convince Moana that she never needs to stray from the island. What I'm saying is it's not just random coconut stuff, it's got meaning behind it.
I think it was more about how silly everyone was depicted singing the coconut song.
They can be funny. But they didn’t need to make the indigenous people singing the song the joke.
Duh. Please, don’t do that troll thing where you pretend to misunderstand just to start a fight. I’m going to stop replying right here.
@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 he's literally saying Consider the Coconut! It has everything you need so you don't need to leave. It's not a silly song, it's a dad saying hey why move out, you have everything you need right here.
as a native kid that was on and off a reservation at the time pocahontas came out? We all loved it, because it was Disney and it was colorful. But we sure did have a class or two devoted specifically to "this isn't what happened, kids". You can have a pointless, pretty movie--which is what Pocahontas is, but the rep is... wew.
But I legitimately adore the themeing behind the song Savages because it's every war ever. It's every conflict ever. Just Around the Riverbend is pretty. Colors of the Wind is cringe but still pretty. Beyond that? I enjoy the Fantasmic bit. But I'm more pumped about giant dragon than anything else so. v0v
Even knowing the "real" story, I enjoy Pocohontas. It's a story. It's animated. I know I'm not watching a documentary. I agree with you on the song "Savages." Everyone should really listen to that.
Same! I’m Native too and am actually named after Ariel (Pocahontas came out when I was 4 or 5). I grew up watching the little mermaid and Snow White but felt disconnected, even at a young age, because, even though I shared a name with Ariel, we didn’t look the same and I thought I needed to. Then Pocahontas came out and I felt a connection. I was also a little older and started understanding my tribe’s traditions and teachings better and grew into a more confident girl and called myself Pocahontas to everyone I met. I was also taught the history and movie were way different and made sure to always be the voice of truth in my history classes (as in, not the cloning version). As an adult, I realize Pocahontas isn’t the best movie, it doesn’t make my top Disney list, but Pocahontas is still my favorite Disney Princess. Just gotta keep hoping someday Disney will keep improving and being more culturally aware.
@@desolatefox It is a movie, not a documentary and it is to create feelings of joy in the end, not a nihilistic portray of history, war, disease, and conquering/genocide. I think people need to stop overanalyze things and just enjoy. If you find one moment of happiness in a Disney movie I say they succeeded. I like Pocahontas but I am afraid of saying that because I am apparently sexist for thinking she looks good and a racist for not knowing all about native Americans. -____- I am tired of this
What is a reservation? Its a genuine question I've had for a while
@@vincentgraymore Movies can do multiple things y'know, that's why most stories/movies have a moral or lesson. Thinking about that stuff isn't a bad thing. Besides that though I agree.
For the record, my mom knows Lindsay Ellis as “the brilliant woman who did the cultural appropriation video and the musicals video.” Those are the only two I’ve made her sit through...I’m an adult btw, Ive been watching for years, so she’s been hearing me repeat stuff I’ve learned from this channel for years
Having grown up in the impoverished, gods-forsaken shadow of Disneyland I really feel Lilo on a spiritual level in that deleted scene.
Totally teared up during the Lilo and Stitch bits. Such a good movie.
Ikr the fuck it's only like a few seconds
K..?
Also the bits of deleted scenes made me laugh out loud
With character designs by a porn artist.
It would have made sense if Bubbles said "Oh believe me, I do" at the end of that scene. Especially if he was Gullah or Cajun.
Lindsay: Let me take a second from this Pocahontas critique to remind you how beautiful Lilo and Stich was and make you cry a little.
Me: cries
I appreciate the neutral use and defining of "Cultural appropriation." That is nice.
That's a really good way to term cultural appropriation that I've never heard described so well. Personally I consider "bad cultural appropriation" to not just be about exploited groups having elements of their culture taken by non-exploited groups, but more so ignoring the importance/symbolism of these elements. Like that whole craze a while back of wearing feathered headdresses - yeah, no, Jen, you can't do that, you're not a chief, you don't get why what you're wearing is significant.
I personally am a fan of Neon Genesis Evangelion, and that show is the king of appropriating symbols that have deeper meaning and using them in a way that lightly plays on that meaning but doesn't really follow it so much as alter it and was admitted by them to be partially for exoticism.
@@tifforo1 the Christian symbology it uses slaps so hard, I enjoy seeing it even if it has nothing to do with actual Christianity
major respect for talking cultural appropriation in a neutral way that shoves controversy away in favor of actually making a point. i honestly dont see many people speak on it neutrally
Because the difference between culture Appropriation and culture Apreciation can get dicey, especially if the intent and passion behind the act isn't clear.
Daniel Fincher you have to understand that sometimes cultural appropriation can be fine, and sometimes it can be harmful, it all depends on the context
Yes, it’s better than usual. But I can’t agree with her attempt at distinguishing between “problematic” and other cultural appropriation. That may be due to my European background, where this kind of classification into “exploiters“ and “exploited” makes little sense in a historical context. It is hard to find any culture or group in Europe who hasn’t been both at different points in history.
Oh my god, I never realized the similarity between Pocahontas and Moana. This felt like a hearty smack in the face.
Frozen is the Disney version of "The Shining"read article by Mary Katharine Ham
Please, just because two stories share a number of cherry-picked surface elements doesn't mean that they are all that similar. Pocahontas is a forbidden love story and Moana is a coming-of age adventure story. There is more fundamental similarity between The Lord of the Rings and Moana than Pocahontas and Moana.
You can do what she did with tons of stories, in fact almost any two.
the Lilo & Stich scenes gave me goosebumps. that’s a great movie
I still can't get over her laying down the parallels like this. The first time I watched this my mind was blown.
"So! Cultural Appropiation.
... RIP comment section".
That made me snort.
@wings of a butterfly Not really, I'm not north american and I find it hilarious and on-point too :P
I'm a Native girl and I have a Pocahontas doll in my closet somewhere because she was my fucking role model as a kid because she was brave and stood up for what she believed in!
Still love her though
My mom showed me it because there was no Peruvian princess. Any brown girl was good enough for me to idolize....
Despite alot of historical inaccuracies and the glossing over certain things (it was a product of it's time) the message I felt was ultimately good and very mature (for a disney film at least) at the time.
@@blacksesamecandies Yes, I very much agree with your opinion wholeheartedly! ^_^
@@blacksesamecandies I agree!
Yeah but like with princess and the frog we did see racism - the places where they lived was a huge indicator as well as when Tiana couldn’t get the restaurant and the way she was treated - they could have done more but there were definitely examples in there
When they denied her the restaurant that she already gave the down payment on they told her "a woman of your... STATURE couldn't handle a big ole place like that"
I could go on and continue to point out all the holes, but everyone saw what I saw.
@@bonkersallday yeah that was a really sad moment
The problem was that she owns the place in the first 15 minutes of the film and has little to do with the story.
The outbid plot isn’t really a dilemma for her. It’s just an excuse to keep her on the journey.
Tiana in truth has no stakes or agency in the story. She has nothing to do with Naveen/Facilier plot at all. She is pushed because the story demands it.
Okay bro, I’m black and what I notice is ONLY WHITE PPL R MAD-
I find it pretty weird that for a movie that theoretically was so cautious about cultural accuracy, the animal sidekicks chosen were a pig and a chicken, for Polynesian islands...
I love how everything that takes place in "New York" is usually filmed in Toronto, and if you're in "Los Angeles" half the time you're in New York, and if you're anywhere European it's usually taped in New Zealand.
'Anywhere near European, its filmed in New Zealand' made me laugh so hard, so thank you 👌🏻🤣👍🏻 Genuinely thanks from a European (Danish)
Maybe Croatia, if you want that authenticc Medieval™ (or Renaissance, really) look
I was an extra in Kal Ho Naa Ho (and never got paid for the privilege), and a lot of the movie was shot in NYC and Long Island. Priti ZInta's family is supposed to live in New Jersey, which leads to the iconic scene of Shah Rukh Khan running from his death bed in the hospital across the Brooklyn Bridge to end up in New Jersey.
I just recently watched Lindsay's hobbit series. I had no idea that so many movies are filmed in New Zealand. Yiykes
Only Prague in movies is authentic!
As an Indian kid I’ve known Kal Ho Naa Ho my entire life so I think I might’ve got serious shivers down my spine when I saw it randomly pop up in a white youtuber’s video about disney movies
Lmao i had the same reaction
Shah Rukh Khan showed up and the south indian grandmother in me said AY WHY YOU SPEAKING HINDI SPEAK TAMIL
Bro same. It also happened when she briefly mentioned Bollywood directors in the Woke Disney. We got mentioned!
Seeing that clip almost made me throw up. Bollywood is so frequently cringe I really wonder if they're trolling on purpose or if their taste levels are truly that bad.
@@Misstressofdons Aren't you fun
I’m from Perú and I honestly love the Emperors New Groove lmao; sure when i think about it I get mad that they just threw a general idea of the culture like- enough to be recognized but not enough enough to be actually fully recognizable- but for me and most people I know within my age range at least, we just get excited at the smallest thing in reference to our culture lmao thx for the bare minimum validation Disney, at least it’s funny.
Also when I was a kid I remember teachers were so frustrated bc lots of little kids learnt to write Kuzco instead of Cusco lmao
In Hawaiian mythology there is a god known as Kamapuaʻa, here is a excerpt from his wikipedia:
Kamapua’a divides the districts giving Pele (the fire goddess) the districts overrun with lava flows; he takes the Windward districts with the most rain. Kamapua’a leaves Hawaii and starts a family in the ocean where he belongs. As Kamapua’a lives his life in the ocean, he still watches over his side of the island. He ventures through the ocean in his new form the humu-humu-nuku-nuku apua’a (trigger fish) He never steps foot on the island again because he doesn't want to run into Pele.
In other words, there is a Hawaiian god of rain who turned into a fish! This is yet another beautiful tie in with Lilos heritage and the fact that everyone treats her as a weirdo for basically practicing her religion.
I live right next to the ahupua'a (small land division) that Kamapua'a is from and I had the opportunity to work at a heiau (Hawaiian temple) that has an anthropomorphic rock that the archaeologists and anthropologists working on site think may represent Kamapua'a! if you look at the rock on one side it looks human and from another side it looks like a pig. It's super cool
I know nitpicking is annoying and awful, but...
Taika Waititi is not “descended from” Maori, he IS Maori.
Also I didn’t realise that the whole blood quantum thing was such a big thing- mostly because in Australia, you’re either Aboriginal or you’re not. And referring to anyone as half or quarter or anything like that is extremely offensive. This is mostly due to the fact that the Australian government had a policy of literally “breeding out the black”. Yeah.
So there are Aboriginal people of all skin colours, from very dark, to very pale. And they’re all still Indigenous. To be Indigenous is to identify as Indigenous, to have a blood relation to an Aboriginal nation somewhere along your line, and to have that community recognise you. No blood quantums. The very idea here is, as I said, extremely offensive.
And it’s interesting that it’s so different in America.
I was thinking the same thing. It comes across as extremely offensive to talk about blood quantum in regards to someones ancestry. As Katie has mentioned, here in Australia it is actually used to further discriminate against Aboriginal people. Based on this, one wonders how much blood quantum laws were created in America in order to discriminate against the native people and reduce their rights and access to land. It appears that these laws were actually made by the government so they could further discriminate. It it with this in mind that it does not seem appropriate to make a video on cultural appropriation whilst simultaneously using blood quantum to undermine the perspectives that some people have regarding Pocahontas.
@@vadoma27 blood quantum was co created with the Dawes Allotment Act, with the act dividing land found within Reservations. Instead of the Reservation entirely being owned by the tribe, or the residents (families). You get BLM land, Tribal/BIA land, Native family land and land... Owned by white farmers (plot twist... Even though these farmers are "renting" the land, none of the money goes to the Tribe at all). Yeah...
Thusly, blood quantum ensures that there is a tier system. Once someone reaches 1/16 or less than a quarter in my tribe for instance... Their ownership of land is forfeited, and their land can be subject to sale or to be taken by the Government.
Since I'm counted as "full blood", I would therefore have to worry about my children's blood quantum. Because they could lose their rights of being Native, rights to their land and rights to the treaties...
It's fucked up, it's sick and twisted. It's effective.
Once Tribes lose members who are above 1/2 or above, their language and spiritual practices. They are then immediately liquidated, and all land is either sold or seized. No ands, ifs or buts. No one would be there to advocate.
But that's America.
@@vadoma27 I also think her using Blood Quantum in this video is also a way for people to inquire about the system Native Americans live under.
Most Americans aren't aware that we Indigenous are still given "pedigrees", and by those words spoken. They could further investigate.
And I agree, Blood Quantum is a useless system. In the old days, so many tribe intermarried and moved about, it was normal to have entire Clans made up of people from nearby tribes that have integrated with the core group.
Heck, my own tribe took in Chinese miners, black slaves and white people willing to live with us. Their children were considered full native, they weren't really treated as an "other".
@@colleennewholy9026 Thank you for saying this. I'm a white American who is comically uneducated about anything regarding Native people. I had no idea that the divisions by blood worked in such a horrific way. Not that it's surprising by any means.
Waititi is half white, making him biracial. You argue “blood quantum” is offensive but the One Drop rule is also racist and offensive.
God, Lilo and Stitch still stands as the best thing Disney's ever produced.
come to order! C.G.:the Cartoon Judge! Better sister story than frozen at least
@@Mae-pt2dd I never understood why a sister(Elsa) was praised for literally neglecting her sister for years and continued to do so after their parents died instead of a sister(Nani) who literally became her sister's mother and did everything she could to protect her and keep her.
Zanillani Nani is beyond better. She gave up everything, surfing, her social life, everything was on her shoulders. She did everything she could for her family and yet Elsa gets all the love because she had a depression allegory and Ice powers. Elsa isn’t even that active in her story. The plot moves because of her sure but she doesn’t have this great arc and grows up. If youre not over analyzing the movie it’s kinda like “Anna saved me so now I understand she’s here for me even tho that’s how it’s been since I was 9” Nani is just a strong female character and her actions make sense the entire movie. I could keep going.
Don't say that too loud. They might live action it.
SSSsshsSH if Disney forgets about it they won’t remake it
“Compass ex machina” is one of the best ways of describing that particular plot point I have ever heard! 😂 Well done on this whole video!
When they “taught” us about thanksgiving in Canada (25+ yrs ago), the teacher made it sound somewhat similar to the Christmas Truce in WWI. There was still strife, but the two groups came together for a feast.
In high school, we began to learn a tiny bit about the residential schools and the effects. That was all news to us in grade 9. But I think that was the teacher’s choice to go a bit further into that instead of just glossing over the bad stuff. We were told that children were torn from their families and forced to adapt to their new colonial school/families.
Basically, we weren’t told everything, but, in my own experience, we weren’t giving the candy coated version that American kids appear to have been taught
This may sound weird. But I love seeing the United States' culture through the lenses of other culture. Good or bad it's so interesting to see different interpretations of things we take for granted here. And of course there is the exaggeration. For example, breakdancing in front of an American flag.
I know, right? I’m going to have to check out that movie with the breakdancing now because, while not an accurate portrayal of the US, it just looks plain fun.
You guys are going to love Bollywood then.
Really, the only thing I saw wrong about the breakdancing in front of the flag bit was that the people who breakdance are rarely the patriotic types.
@@Pazuzu4All that's hilarious. 😂
I often find cultural appropriation of US culture hilarious when it's inaccurate. ( ex: *IT'S A FUCKING SALE* , Kernel Sanders is Santa, etc.)
As an islander I really wish that scene stayed in Lilo and Stitch. That movie always resonated with me and I liked seeing the tropical visuals but that additional scene would've been a plus.
Yeah, it's a really good scene. I would've traded any of the alien scenes with that one, happily.
I know this is an old video but I think you'd be interested to hear that one of my professors was approached by Disney to join the committee to advise the company and he basically pointed out a bunch of problems he saw with the movie and they decided they didn't want him anymore.
@@myramodregon if I remember correctly, he advised against the Kakamora scene because Kakamora don't actually look like that in Polynesian lore. He also criticized them for commodifying Polynesian culture since they literally make billions in merchandise but none of that money goes back to people of the culture that was used. It was basically exploitation with the extra PR steps of hiring a committee. He says he still likes the movie and feels it was a step in a good direction but that there was much to be improved and that he hopes Moana opens the doors for Indigenous storytellers to tell their own stories.
As much as I want to hate Pocahontas (the movie), I can't make myself do so. It was the first and only movie I could watch and relate to my Lakȟota family (which is especially funny since Matoaka wasn't even lakota). It is also the only movie that I could watch and see relationships like that of my grandparents (even if that marriage didn't last). So while I want to hate it for the horrible misrepresentation of history, and every other horrific thing it did, it also brought me hope.
Y’all acting like they intend to do harm- the movie it’s self is no racist. And nor did they try to be
@@queenofhearts7503 When I fool around with a cup and then I break it, but then I say it was an accident, it don't mean the cup ain't broken, and it doesn't dismiss the fact that you were fooling around with it. Just cause the situation isn't black and white doesn't mean it didn't do damage, and it doesn't mean that they don't have responsibility.
@@queenofhearts7503 Ignorance can be just as harmful as direct attacks.
@@queenofhearts7503 things that don't intend to cause harm can still do so though
"Pocahontas was originally closer in age to the historical Pocahontas."
That would have made her about 10-12, give or take a few years. And why Disney aged her up, I'll never know. Their target demographic is kids and, with Pocahontas' story, they had a perfect chance to create a unique, interesting, spunky child character kids could identify with/imagine being--not to mention, they could have used her as a gateway to get kids into history--but they passed it up for a tired "Romeo and Juliet"-style story? That makes no sense.
they wanted the movie to mirror Beauty and the Beast in order to get another Oscar nomination. They don't care about kids learning history, they just want those kids to swim in their expensive merchandise.
And that's not a despicable thing in any way. A parent who entrusts his child's education to hollywood is worthless anyway.
I know Disney cares more about the money than historical accuracy, and that's why it baffles me that they aged Pocahontas up. I mean, really, which do you think prepubescent kids would rather see: A movie starring a character their own age who they could vicariously live through and who Disney could market the shit out of, or a movie centered around a romantic relationship, an idea which some of Disney's young target demographic might find uninteresting at best and revolting at worst because, "Ew! Cooties!"?
I don't know, i think the demographic, at least in those years, was more focused on "what i want to be when i grow up" than "what i can relate with". There isn't a single disney movie where the protagonist is a target demographic (apart from lilo and stitch, but as stated that movie breaks a lot of conventions) and i think that fact speaks for himself. Also ironically a story with a 10-12 yo protagonist is bound to be more adult and complex than a teen love story, because it can't rely on the same tired tropes the writers love so much. Harder to make dolls out of, too. And generally merch. A kid doesn't want to identify with another kid. They want to identify with teenage, flawless girls, who talk with birds and teapots and shit and end up fucking a prince. At least, that's the core demographic of those years. We're discussing about how they could have made more money, but i honestly think neither of us is even remotely qualified to teach Disney how to make money. I can safely assume they had a reason to go the way they went. Your argument is "some kids don't like romance". Well, 90% of their work is romance. And Disney is the biggest animation studio in the world, both in terms of production and popularity. So yeah, i'd say the target demographic rolls with that shit fine.
Yeah, you brought up good points. I grew up in the '90s and, looking back on my own childhood, I did think a lot about what it'd be like to get older/find romance, etc. As an adult, though, it seems strange that a company which makes movies aimed at children . . . can't or doesn't want to make interesting child characters. But you're right, what do we know? Disney is Disney and we're not.
I was in my early 20s when Pocahontas came out. At that time Disney was also considering making a "History Disney Park" in the Williamsburg, VA area. Can't you just see it? I was glad it was shot down.
The filmmakers allegedly went and interviewed Pocahontas' relatives. They all said it would have been less offensive if they had not been interviewed as they were obviously ignored completely.
Disney can go eff itself.
Wow, I didn't know about the History Disney Park. I guess they figured Williamsburg already had Busch Gardens and Water Country USA, so they might as well turn Williamsburg into Orlando and keep pushing in more theme parks.
Apparently Disney considered building that new location in my hometown of Haymarket, VA but luckily that didn't happen! Traffic is bad enough there lol
Highly recommend Defunctland’s video on the subject!
@@myettechase every time Michael Eisner shows up in one of Ellis' videos my brain instantly goes "defunctland time"
My acting prof in uni was the inspiration behind Pocohontas' look. Like how Alyssa Milano was the inspo for how Ariel in the Little Mermaid looked. My prof is a tall, beautiful Indigenious woman with long black hair. In the 90s she was one of the few Native women in Hollywood so Disney used her likeness to create Pocohontas. They didn't pay her or tell her that her likeness was being used for a movie. So when you say "sexy native american woman" it's funny cause my prof is really beautiful and would be considered sexy by societal standards, back then and now.
You hyping up how she looks makes me wanna see her and look her up but yeah, I understand you did not give any info about her to keep it private
In all honesty, as a kid who was born after the release of Pocahontas and grew up watching it on VHS with one of those old TV's you feel static from, I was extremely surprised to learn the real history in class, as were my classmates. The people involved were all real, but they were very different than what Disney gave us, and it caused a lot of cognitive dissonance at the time. Pocahontas was a kid, John Smith was waaay older than her and that's super creepy, and the story didn't have the "happy ending" we all thought it did as young, impressionable kids. Even knowing the truth, I can't say that I don't like the movie because I'd be lying. I grew up with the movie, and despite the yikes that it is, I still enjoy it as much as I did as a kid. Maybe it's positive association or something.
Fucking obviously Disney isn’t going to make a movie about a pedo and a little girl who died a sad tragic death- ur angery bc Pocahontas isn’t accurate?? OFC ITS NOT GOING TO BE ACCURATE- it’s a kids movie!
9:34 "She must be sexy" argument followed by "It's a disney movie!" argument.
man glen keane was one of my animation idols growing up, I am so disappointed by that comment, wow.
damian martinez That explains why Poison Ivy is the most memorable thing about Batman and Robin
♪ It's the green, it's the green, it's the green you need...! ♪
"You know, for kids!"
Even though Belle wasn't sexualized nearly as much somehow, despite having a whole song devoted to her looks.
Oh right, Belle was white, so she gets to be smart and have a personality. We can sell that to kids if she's a colored woman!
I wonder what you think of Coco. I am Mexican American and I cried. Coco reminded me of my father's hometown. It was beautiful.
I cried too :'( I love mexican music, I have much to love about it and I identify with things I can understand about it also I have compared it a lot to my country's music too (Greece). The main reason I saw Coco was because I stumbled upon the spanish version of Un poco loco on youtube. My friend begged me to watch the english version, but it sounded terrible! But I don't know what's so terrible about the english version, really... Does it sound bad only in my ears, perhaps, for those unknown mutliple reasons?
One of my favorite singers said "Los mexicanos nacimos donde nos da la puta gana" when they asked her why did she said she's mexican while she weren't born there. Such beauty your mexican culture.
I have recently had the opportunity to watch Coco. I thought it was a beautiful and very emotional movie. The ending where Miguel is singing to his grandmother, trying to get her to remember Hector had me sobbing. If I may ask....do you think the movie gave a true and respectful representation of Mexican culture?
I have issues with Coco. The main one is that it corrupts the sentiment behind the Dia de los Muertos holiday. The holiday's lore states that all ancestors are granted the ability to visit loved ones, by divine grace. It is for that very reason you honor them by setting food and items they loved when they were alive, for one day, in the ofrenda. It is not the other way around - you don't set the ofrenda with a photo, then they are allowed to visit. Also, including immigration plot lines and subtext (for the dead to be allowed to visit) seemed particularly cruel and unnecessary. Including "border" agents at the marigold bridge seemed wrong and it made me cringe! It is like the writers couldn't divorce our Mexican ancestry from the American magnifying glass that only sees us as an immigration problem. We Mexicans are way more than that!! Oh and one more thing: The portrayal of Frida Kahlo was ridiculous. She was a revolutionary badass, not some arrogant artsy prop portrayed with an almost Russian accent.
@@LavaStar39 all fair criticisms, I kind of felt like as a whole the movie was good. It felt good to see it, reminiscent almost, and that's probably what I liked most. It had a certain feel of home. I didnt realy catch the immigration subtext, but I do agree having Frida play the lolz character was probably not the best choice given she indeed was a badass.
@@SilverSentinel Lytton, I simply gave some opinions when requested, I'm sorry if you got offended. My comments were respectful and just one contribution of many, just to add to the conversation. I am a US Citizen, fortunately not experiencing any immigration injustices personally - but the issue is there, and I saw it reflected in the movie plot. If you don't see it, you don't see it, there is nothing I can do about that. Different people see different things, specially in regards to art. Finally, listen to your own tone and follow your advice - your comment was condescending and painted me with a wide brushstroke without really knowing me. The one that may be bitter about "everything" may be you, if a simple opinion bothers you so much.
I love how this was recorded before the disaster that was Frozen 2.
How was Frozen 2 a disaster?
Specifically in regards to its depiction of the relationship between a colonialist power and an indigenous group. Like Pocahontas, it puts all the blame for the conflict on a single bad actor (Runeard) and uses the love between an indigenous woman and a man from the colonizing power as a catalyst for a sort of lukewarm “can’t we just get along” ending. It doesn’t actually grapple with the subject, just sidesteps it because hey, turns out our heroines have been part Northuldran all along.
It’s not that it’s completely without redeeming qualities, but to a lot of people, it just felt kind of… empty.
Also I think Arendelle should have been destroyed but that’s just me.
@@JacksonBockus Yeah as a Norwegian, that felt so much like Pocahontas but about the Samii people instead, blatantly so.
Norway also has a history of repressing and trying to erase the culture of our indigenous people.
@@JacksonBockus SO TRUE! Btw, why do you think Arendelle should’ve been destroyed?
@@mirandajones7816 In the story, it would have made the choice Anna made to destroy the dam more meaningful in the long term, so once she takes over as queen of Arendelle she would actually have to deal with the fallout of that choice, both good and bad.
From a more symbolic standpoint, it would have meant that repairing the damage done by colonialism requires actual sacrifice, that if an institution is built on bad foundations sometimes you need to tear it down so you can build something better in its place.
Why do I have a sudden urge to rewatch Thor: Ragnarok?
Love this video!
One example I thought of America being weirdly misappropriated (because this is such a rare occurrence) was the UK show “Skins”, which had an episode about the kids putting on a 9-11 musical play where they all dress up and talk in American accents, recreating the day of 9-11, singing about how “Osama blew us away, yes he blew us away”, wearing old fashioned American corporate suits, complete with cardboard cutouts of the twin towers crashing down.
It completely shocked me in a bad uncomfortable way and is one of the only times I’ve felt completely misunderstood as an American by others, and realized no one else cared except other Americans. I’m not even patriotic.