Halo Lore - Why Did the UNSC Forgive the Elites?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- In Halo Lore, why did humanity, and the UNSC turn a blind eye to the horrors of the Covenant, and the Elites did, including the Arbiter? Today we will discuss Halo canon, and potential Halo theory as to why the UNSC forgive the Elites for the better good.
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This Elite situation reminds me of something Paarthurnax once said in Skyrim: "What is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"
Such a good line. Makes me wonder if the Skyrim writers were paraphrasing some other work.
Right, if any of you nerds want a floggin. Step this way.
@JRPGFan20000 Shit went over your head huh? At a mach 12 at that
JRPGFan20000 Do you even understand the context in which the line was spoken in?
@@shawnfromstatefarm8822 he's a JRPG fan. You think he has a brain?
Why did the UNSC forgive the elites?
Hood: I can't forgive you...
Maybe Hood isn't human. Maybe he's something else..
Mahmoud The Marine maybe he's an elite lol
The Banana Reasonable.
but it's not shown in 343's comics or games that humanity cant forgive, but that theyre buddies...
wtf happened to hood though lol
If I remember right in the Halo lore, all throughout the first attacks upon Humanity by the Covenant, the Sangheli brought up on numerous occasions that Humanity was always fighting and killing so brutally because they were so desperate to defend themselves, and they respected them for that
Lots of the Elites were questioning the exclusion of the humans from the Covenant.
They viewed humanity not as equals exactly, but with equal resolve in battle. And Sangheli are a warrior culture. They respected us as warriors and thought us to be deserving for a spot in the Covenant. The only thing that kept that from happening was the San'shyuum.
@@darkySp to add more to that point, the Elites saw how many times a few humans/Spartans would sacrifice their lives to save others in very grim circumstances and would see how many of the Covenant they would take down with them.
Typically, most Spartans would take out a squad of regular or mid-tier elites until their more advanced & veteran heretic types joined the frayed. A typical Spartan II (at least not at the high levels of Master Chief, his closest friends, Spartan Jerome, etc.) could take out a few before being overwhelmed by the elite's quick reflexes, getting tired, or running out of ammo (Noble-6 took so many before overwhelmed at Reach after the final mission which I think in my opinion the Sangheill would put Noble 6 in such high regard among the Covenant).
It's similar to how the Japanese in WW2 fought against the Americans in Leyte Gulf, where a few small destroyers charged the more numerous & powerful Japanese fleet to save the carriers of Taffy 3, where they were defeated/sunken but prevented the Japanese fleet from rolling into the Gulf to where thousands of Allied troops were on the beaches. Still, the Japanese respected & saluted their crews for their courage against such horrible odds to save others. It's the way of the warrior to fight for what is behind them and face their greatest fears in such an ultimate sacrifice.
The same could be said about the Turians, seeing how Commander Shepard gave up human lives to save the Council in ME1, which vastly improved relations between the two rivals, or in Star Trek when the Klingon Empire began to respect humanity's sacrifice of the Ambassador Class Enterprise C defending a Klingon outpost against the numerical Romulans which led to the finalization of the Khitomer Accords in Star Trek created years before.
@SolidAvenger1290 my shepard never does tho ever a sacrifice has to be worth something sacrificing humans lives for species that would not return the favour like the turians attacking humanity without warning if you see a child putting fork in an electrical outlet do u tell them why its wrong or start hitting them? The salarians attempting to Genocide an entire race for a mistake THEY MADE, or the asari hording protean tech and not warning anyone about the reapers every other race is more than willing to destroy an entire race if it protects them so why should we bleed for them? Fuck em humanity will stand on its own its why humanity needs a organisation like cerbarus just not one indoctrinated.
A growing number of them even questioned why the Covenant didn’t allow humanity to join them. They didn’t realize that the war was based on a lie until near the end.
"Forgive your enemy, but always remember their names."
-John F. Kennedy
Conn0rized they'll remember me through the memories of their dead loved ones.
"SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONES BREAKING IN!"
@@jackzarazun5007 It's just the storm, Dick. Sit down.
@@conn0rized292 It appears the Pentagon has been breached.
@Daddy Bigshlong Zombies. Gentlemen, in times like these our capacity to retaliate must be and has to massive, to deter all forms of aggression
I need to say something about the eating alive thing, it was never Elites, it was always the Brutes, the morons of the galaxy.
Slender Star Weren't those SJW's?
Slender Star grunts and jackals also ate people
Samuel Hains Actually, it is stated that grunts eat corpses in The Fall of Reach prologue.
the elites look like amn eaters more dan bwoots do
It is against the Sangheili view of Honour, those who eat sapient beings are out-casted as exiles, in fact, I do believe one of the Covenant Remnants is formed from such individuals who are essentially addicted to Human flesh.
The Arbiter is a good guy. You're forgetting the Elites only composed part of the Covenant. Also each Elite is an individual person and just like humans could be good or bad depending on their life. Just because Thel'Vadam was misguided by his religion and was fed Covenant propaganda does not make him and the other Elites bad or evil. The Elites that help the humans deserve the respect and honor of human warriors because not only do they fight alongside the humans, they have to be brave enough to fight the empire they grew up in. A parallel is, we do not hate North Korean citizens just because they are North Korean; we hate the regime they grew up in and were brainwashed by.
Beautiful answer, kudos.
Exactly! I've seen north Koreans that escaped. They are amazed at the outside world and tell of the brainwashing by the regime. Told that Americans beat or raped civilians, when the older generations remember that the American soldiers actually did things like give children chocolate. This is one big reason I never want any nukes going off anywhere. They'd take out a government but the people who were innocent or brainwashed since they could read too! If any military action were to be taken it would need to be a strategic surgical strike that happens simultaneously on all regime officials. If not simultaneous then some would go into hiding, a new leader would be installed, and war would start. Even with this method many civilians would turn on us since many don't realize they're essentially cattle to the regime. Saddening, but true. Honestly each country has brainwashed many of its citizens.
Also if it weren’t for the elites earth would be a big ball of flood biomass plotting to infect the universe or the universes
@@TheZephyrsWind glad you pointed out that each country has its own problems with brainwashing the masses. Today its more evident than ever sadly.
Let's just pretend that America doesn't fuck up other countries because they don't like who's in power
Thel'Vadam was only following a religious doctrine.
ANYONE who realizes wrongdoing and corrects the problem, REALLY REALLY Changes, is deserving of not only forgiveness, but encouragement of new behavior.
he's not a hero, rather a redeemed soul, and no one will convince us otherwise. so, there.
Josh Reyes he is a warrior. Honorable at that.
He's still responsible for glassing over 1 billion people, including innocent children.
So he's still a mass murdering criminal in my eyes.
John Rambo they did help glass earth to get rid of the flood aka 7 billion people(currently) but the number should grow to at least 9 billion so yeah they did save more lifes than thry killed
Stalwart Vanguard when did I play the number game?
In war no one wins, both sides took a heavy tolls, many shingali wanted the humans to join the covenant, because how they fought, even surprised that they would keep fighting instead flee. Though the humans learn more and more about them they forgave them, and will see them as an ally against much more greater threats, now if we are talking about jackels they seem to be doing very well after the war, they have indulged within the outer human worlds and are even trading with them. course if you read the books you learn much more about all the races except the unggoy, they need their own book.
At the beginning of the war, the elites questioned the war against humanity after noting similar qualities within the UNSC that the Sangheli respected within their own military.
They repeatedly asked the prophets why they did not give humanity the offer to join their ranks, and were never given any real answer other than “are you questioning our decision”.
Which as we saw with Rtas (one of the most respected elites in the covenant due to his rank and title of the special operations commander, which allowed him to wear silver armor (a rare color in the covenant)), being asked that question is considered close to undermining the prophets’ authority, which can result in a punishment of dishonorable death.
Both of which will make almost every elite “bite their tongue” to avoid bringing dishonor to their clan. Allowing the war to continue without them needing to explain why they immediately declared war on humanity instead of offering a place in the covenant for humanity.
The prophets used the elites honor against them, and when they finally had an elite they couldn’t just kill for bs hierarchy charges (as they feared that the elites would riot or rebel for killing the most respected and looked up to elite in the covenant (the covenant’s imperial admiral)), they “promoted him with the honor of leading the 2nd biggest fleet the covenant had”. When in reality, they exiled him to patrol the outer fringes of covenant controlled space, and even essentially demoted him by having him go from leading High Charity’s fleet (the biggest covenant fleet), to the 2nd largest fleet.
To be fair, the war would have just happened anyways. The prophets are the leaders of the Covenant, and what does humanity look like taking orders from aliens? 3 ugly blobs at worst. Eventually, it would make everyone else.question why they are listening to them, too, and it would cause a Covenant civil war. Humanity leading one front, the 3 fat bastards leading the other. Until the Flood comes and kills everyone.
@@goldenhedgehog9 The imperial admiral you're talking about is Xytan Jar'Wattinree, right?
@@e3nethan910 It's been 4 years since i typed that comment, but I'm fairly certain that was his name
"We'll give you T H I C C sangheili woman and you'll forgive us"
Humanity: "...deal"
It'd win me over.
How could I possibly decline
Honestly not a bad trade.
@@JohnnyShagbot a man of culture i see
Yes
Why did they forgive them? They wanted that Helioskrill armor, fam.
Yeah
They should have done it for the hayabusa
Stupid helmet, though.
Actually I'd say 343 did a good job showing the awkward relationship between UNSC and Elites in the Halo2A
opening cutscene with Locke.
The spartans and elites are uncomfortably watching Locke and arbiter talking, as well as Locke and arbiter looking over their shoulders as if they're being judged by their teams for interacting with each other.
Halo needs more of that, showing that each side is pretty reluctant working together.
I Know A Skurl also in that book where they go back to the ark I forgot what it's called but it really shows tensions between some Spartans and elites which was really cool
McSpankey unfortunately I haven't read any of the books,but are you talking about when they teamed up to stop a countdown till the halos fired.
Either way it's good that 343 have made sone effort in the lore to show their uneasy relationship
I Know A Skurl that was before 343 destroyed the entire halo universe in halo 5 so that scene ceases to be canon now
friendlyelites ah damn I didn't even think about that, halo 5 is so far in the back of my mind it need not exist.
But that cutscene was still alright
I Know A Skurl no no what halo desperatly needs is to return to its mature/military roots like the halo uprising comics and the bungie games, not the kiddie nerdy crap 343 has been making which is most noticeable in halo wars 2 or halo 2 anniversary, that way halo can appeal to a wider audience like before and go back to being the best game on xbox, and have a high chance at competing with call of duty again.
3:36 you never heal fully from it, you just learn to live with it.
Plus, its more an institutional hatred of the Covenant. I.e. Germany in 1939 doesn't define Germans as a people. I think Buck was wise enough to understand that.
@@GenScinmore I think it was just meant to be "feel good" dialogue. Realistically, I don't think victims of the Holocaust were calling German soldiers their brothers just 5 years after the fact.
@@GenScinmore add up that we might not have any real life parallel. All our wars have been human-to-human, we can more or less forgive other humans because we're the same species.
But in Halo, we're talking about entirely alien creatures. Imagine a 30 year war, filled to the brim with propaganda depicting these aliens as the ultimate evil....and rightfully doing it.
Even if the other covenant species were indeed puppets of the Prophets, the hatred towards covenant species would last at least two generations.
Lord Hood perfectly encapsulates the feeling
"I can never forgive you, but you have my gratitude"
The humans still alive by the end of the Human-Covenant war will feel until their deaths a burning desire for payback...but with Humanity's forces being vastly inferior to Elite fleets, by the time Humanity has recovered enought to be on par with the Elites, the generations that suffered the war will already be dead.
You clearly do not understand politics. In order for major shifts to occur in mutual favor to two parties, sacrifices must be made, and previous atrocities must be forgiven. Take Star Trek as a prime example. The Klingon empire waged a campaign of systematic destruction against Earth and Starfleet, war was the only option for them, as they represent a dedication to the three blades, honor, duty. But through perserverance and interstellar war, both sides realized the virtue in the other. Sometimes blood must be spilled to arrive at an understanding.
gen plant a plasma rifle
"On the blood of our fathers on the blood of our sons we swore to uphold the covenant!" lol make elites playable again it would bring a much needed spark back to the Community. Being able to play as an elite in multilayer and customs was always fun and brought more competition to the game. And I am sure the rest of the elite community is sick of being ignored.
funny you use the Elite suffix denoting servitude to the Prophets. Really shows your position in this all.
Machinima might make a come back
@Kassaran2092 I’m sorry, but what the fuck are you talking about? He only put that quote there because it’s fun and badass. He wasn’t making a political statement. Jesus.
The only Arbiter that's evil is the one in halo wars
Nightmare 6632 and even then, not the same arbiter as halo 2 and forward, Thel’Vadam is good
Im sure all previous Arbiter’s would have aided in annihilating humans as it was what was required of them, plus they wouldve have been fully devopted as the civil war wouldnt have taken place
Ripa Moramee
Verstealious the one that stood up to the covenant and killed an army of covenant would be on the side of humans
@@shadowNooob most arbiters has been always against of gerarcs
“Why did they forgive the Elites?”
*glances at America and Japan after WW2*
A large number of Pacific vets never did or have forgiven the Japanese. A lot have gone to their graves hating the Japanese just as much as when they were in the service. The 'forgiveness' came from the following generations who were removed from the events. I wouldn't be shocked if the Japanese weren't hated more so than the Germans. Now, I'm not saying that no vets forgave, or rather gained an understanding of, the Japanese. I'm just pointing out it wasn't all of a sudden brotherly love after the truce was signed.
Timber Wolf Prototyping oh I know, but I’m just pointing out that there is precedent in our own history where we’ve at least basic levels forgiven our enemies.
@@JC_Young Pearl Harbour was bad, and Japan commited numerous war crimes... but nuking 2 civilian cities is unforgivable. Japan no longer posed a threat before the nukes, they were unneccessary
Hans Blankenburg The atomic bombs prevented untold deaths for the American forces. Japan would not have surrendered otherwise. And who knows, if the war would have progressed and went along as it had been, Japan may well have (and probably would have) lost even more people than what was lost in those two cities.
Timber Wolf Prototyping Japan’s fleet was fucked, they were on the defensive. The US could literally just sail/fly back home and call it a day, especially after they burned Tokyo into ashes with conventional bombing.
The biggest reason for the nukes were a display of power and deterrence, to scare Stalin away from annexing Japan into the Soviet Union
Title:why the humans forgave the elites? First clip:I can't forgive you
Because the elites helped humanity win the war, duh. Also, #elitelivesmatter
#Spartanlivesmatter
Jonsin 1459 Key word was forgive.
But no spartans died #Spartansneverdie
But many civilians died to bring us this information #neverforget
#elitelivesmatter
Arby is my favourite character and I love his redemption story.
That Guy too bad chief was so much of dick. Killed Arby's friends and keeping him down
@@TheRockK95 which friends?
@@TheRockK95 ya um what of Arby's friends did chief murder??
@@DinoGirl I love how you want him to name actual alien names to prove an Internet point 😐
I like the arbiter he's like a sanghilly Master chef a total badass
Master Chef is pretty cool. But I don't see how the two are related.
Chips Dubbo dood Master Chief killed a profet the arbiter killed a profet they both hate the covonant
I could go on and on
I know about how Master Chief and Arbiter can be similar, but you said Master Chef.
dood if you like Halo look it up or do some research do something
And remember kids, don't be Elitist.
MLG SPACE TACO #stop elite abuse
MLG SPACE TACO #stop elite abuse
What he says -Chris
#Elitelivesmatter
MLG SPACE TACO wrong don't be ELITIST
Killing Elites was so deeply programed into me by the time I got MC Collection that I found it difficult to play as the Arbiter without killing my allies by accident
Yeah, it is especially difficult when both your enemies and your allies look the same
@@WetThigh it wasn't that. It was the fact that purple Elites are usually shooting at me
well the grunts were the OG rebellion species they did it first lets remember. then they glassed there planet.....
Imagine what would happen if the Elites found out the truth of Humanity's origins. They would probably lose their shit knowing that they almost eradicated their Gods' children lol
well since the new lore states that the humans actually fought the Forerunners, they could either take a look at that and say they literally warred with the gods or they could look at the relatively newer development of the Forerunners choosing humans as their successors.
@@DreadnoughtHvor A little late...
Well, considering Humans are the choosen successors of the Precursors, instead of the Forerunners and even at the end acknowledged by the Forerunners. Which also means that the Forerunners were the false gods that took the mantle of responsibility with violence and killed their gods and are even a great deal responsible for creating the flood.
It would be funny to find a human-worshipping group of elites, grunts, and jackals.
@@andyfriederichsen It would be actually scary in my opinion.
@@DreadnoughtHvor is that why humans seem to be the only species that can activate Forerunner technology like the Halo rings?
When you are on your last legs, when you're all but spent and an enemy realizes they screwed up and wishes to make peace, count your blessings that they stopped and are helping you
yea pretty much
“Calm is what you have... when things are out of your hands.”
-Colonel James Hsu, Fallout: New Vegas
I say that this easily describes the situation brought up with Buck.
If Buck actually has forgiven the elites, I'd say it's because he's a soldier and made peace with their actions by recognizing that they were also soldiers, just on the other side. Also, Thel's Elites rebelled against the Covenant and helped save humanity in the end. That might buy more good will than you realize, or at least mostly quench the need for vengeance.
Honestly, Buck in Halo 5 calling Elites his brothers is completely jarring. This guy's family was murdered by them and eaten. I understand pragmatically making peace with the Elites, but there should be a lot of lingering resentment towards them.
@@nutyyyy maybe Buck has the capability to understand that, like humans, the actions of some members of the species doesn’t make it the actions of all others
@@nutyyyy but the eaten part unless I'm missing something that is a brute thing and not a Elite thing.
@@mavraszunwoody2527 Yer Elites would never eat sapient life it's against there way
This is why the Halo Evolutions short "The Return" is my favorite. A Sangheili warrior returning to the place of his greatest triumph now come to haunt him. The scene of him entering a bunker and seeing the bones of hundreds of dead humans shocks and terrifies him. He laments "There are so many..." before leaving.
This is ESPECIALLY considering that Buck was on reach, in New Alexandria, where some of the heaviest civilian casualties were. After playing the Reach Campaign, I find it hard to believe he would be able to change so quickly.
Well most elites usually don’t kill civilians (that doesn’t involve glassing) due to it not being honorable to kill people who are unarmed. All of the other species in the covenant however don’t have any problems with killing civilians regardless of how they do it.
The elites and humans teaming up was uneasy at first, but they were fighting with the whole galaxy at stake. You are bound to get pretty buddy-buddy after that. Perhaps Bucky sees the friendly elites on Sanghelios as brothers because he fought alongside them to protect earth and the galaxy at the end of the day.
Certainly the public don't want an alliance with the Elites. I'm pretty sure that thread shows up in books or comics or something.
343 missed out on a potentially great aspect of the story in the later games. I think the anamosity between the humans and elites would of been really interesting to see and should of been explored a lot more.
It is. Just in the lore. ONI basically engages a shadow war and finances the civil war on Sangheilios. Half the reason why Thel Vadamee can't help the UNSC track down the MC or fight Cortana is because he's too focused on trying to keep his power.
as stated, humanity needed an ally. the Elites stepped up because they needed the same thing. plus, both Sanghelli and humans had their vendettas against the Covenant. while not always right, the Sanghelli were honorable, save for the majority of Jul M'Dama's forces. I aslo don't believe Elites are evil. they were blinded by the Prophets, led by the mandibles and tossed down and away at the Prophets' leisure. when they were betrayed by them and exiled, they knew that they weren't strong enough on their own to face the Covenant alone. same with the humans, so they chose to set aside their differences and seek out humanity. as we know, humanity gratefully accepted the help. in the end, it was all just for the respective races' survival and later, their mutual political coorespondence.
Because they couldn't of won without us. Obviously.
respect bro
Thel 'Vadam NOTICE ME SENPAI!!!
Thel 'Vadam I killed Tartures and the prophet of Truth and took care of the covenant remnants.
TRUTH!
Alexane Rose The voice of the covenant!!
"What is better, to be born good or to overcome your evil nature for the greater good?" -Paarthurnax
I think this phrase kinda' applies for the elites.
no they didn't eat people that was the brutes maybe jackals and drones
The Elites were the only species from the covenant I believe that did not eat humans.
TemplarsDesign grunts?
Richie Wellesley Slender Star at the time the elites were allowing the brutes to eat humans, so its just as much their fault as it is the brutes, the elits were second only to the prophets until they rebelled in halo 2 and 3 odst. so dont downplay the control they had over the brutes, they could have easily put a stop to it, but they didnt.
nice story asajj you're right
Marcus Forte Gods family nah grunts ate food nipple
buck can't blame an entire spices for what happened to his family but I understand why he others feel that way, buck is kinda mature, that's my opinion
the others
Yeah, just because one grain of oregano killed your family doesn't mean that all spices are evil.
But then again the entire coventant species were killing humans. Not just a couple of members of a species.
Jorge his family wasn’t even eaten by elites. It was either brutes or jackals:skirmishers, as they would be let loose to hunt down those in hiding and didn’t really have any elites following them during those times. They’d go out for a “patrol” and come back to a command post to report what/how many they found to elites.
Arbiter is my favorite spice.
It would be interesting to see if arbiter struggles internally thinking about all the deaths he is responsible for. That could make for some good writting.
Well one of the terminals in H2A has this. He laments. "What will you call me when you learn the truth of what I have done." Plus in the starting cutscene of Crows Nest we see a wounded humans wheeled by him on a stretcher. Chief, Johnson, Keyes just continue on but Arbiter turns and watches the wounded man wheeled off. Almost as to say he is thinking "So this is what me and my kind have done..."
The Arbiter always thought for what he believed in. During his time in the Covenant his believes were just manipulated by the Prophets.
Kermit The Taco *fought *believed
I believe that thel vadam was always a hero he was just blinded by the prophets . he killed so many because the prophets had lied to all of the covenant to make humanity seem like an obstacle in the way of the "great journey"
The elite may have killed many humans but in the end they saved more humans then they killed plus they are also great soldiers that help the humans at times in need
Zak Klemp lol they didnt save more humans than they killed. Over 80% of all humanity was killed with numbers lower than earth current population alive after the war
omgitsharrypotato! I think what he means is that they didn’t drive the human population to full extinction which now allows the human race to repopulate and live on.
omgitsharrypotato! Umn no besides earth they still have other colonies
Zak Klemp
Saved more than they killed? That’s some massive bullshit. The Elites have my respect for helping humanity in their darkest hour, but that doesn’t excuse them of the shit they’ve done.
Caleb Chace
That legit doesn’t make it any better.
“Sorry we killed 90% of your race, but we left the 10% alive so you could repopulate. Friends now?”
Is the Arbiter evil?
I say this -- Evil probably in the eyes of Humanity, given his crucial role during the cleansing of Humanity. However, evil is subjective. The Arbiter, the Elites, in fact a great portion of the Covenant Races at the time were doing what -they- thought was right, what their belief asked them to do.
They're in a position in which questioning their belief was heresy, literally from birth that is what they're taught. Considering that the Arbiter did rebel against the covenant was not because his beliefs were at question but himself and the Elites were targeted as traitors by the Covenant and fought mainly out of survival. It wasn't until the Prophets turned against them that they finally were given the opportunity to ask those questions.
Once again, is the Arbiter evil? Yes and no. In war, morality goes out of the window and in the end it is simply a fight for survival, it's a matter of shoot them first before they shoot you.
You have a good point there.
ShadowPicturesJay
This is...more of *does* make a lot of sense .-.
the elites joined the humans because in halo 2 the oracle told the arbiter how the rings work. The the arbiter told Tartaris to not activate the rings because ot wipes out all life and Tartaris didn't belive him. So the shangelli (elites) joined the humans to finish the war in halo 3
Savage_Gamer 604 It wasn't just because of that. The Brutes started killing the Elites when they were replacing them as the 2nd main species in the Covenant.
It's mostly because the Prophets expelled the Elites. The Prophets and Elites never really liked each other, only tolerating each other for the sake of the Great Journey. Once the Prophets felt they were close enough to finally succeeding (and after the Elites failed to protect the Prophet of Regret from John 117), they kicked the Elites out and replaced them with the Brutes. The Brutes gladly started killing Elites because they, too, pretty much hated the Elites.
TheOnlyProGamer well that told him the prophets were lying. He didn’t do it for that reason as much as that reason showed him the prophets were wrong
foxymetroid actually there were many prophets who had elite friends, with 1 minor prophet being able to rescue some of his elites friends from Truth when he planned to use a mini halo ring to torture and kill them (after the minor prophet refused to push the button to kill the elites). That prophet then proceeded to show the elites back ways to get through high charity, and got them on a ship, convinced the elites to take him to what looked like a random location in the middle of nowhere to them, got there to discover a lost tribe of Sangheli that have lived in a forerunner station since the beginning of the covenant as they refused to join after the elite-prophet war, helped fix the lost tribes food machines (which also helped cure some severe food poisoning that the machines were causing), was able to convince some of the lost tribe elites to return to Sanghelios along with him and his elite friends; and was then able to live on Sanghelios with the clans of the elites he saved, and is according to lore, the only prophet allowed to freely travel, not be harmed under threat of severe punishment (as he is being used to show that not every prophet was like Truth and those who betrayed them), and live on Samghelios.
There's no "justice" for a billion lives.
There is nothing that could ever possibly be done to make up for that.
Well it's not like it took very long for humanity to spring back...
So we can't forgive America then. Or Russia, or China, or Britain, or anyone. Sure they were millions, not a billion, but you get my drift.
I'm not so sure. They could probably start by helping Humanity recolonize all the planets they glassed, but the elites are too misanthropic to do anything like that lol
Bringing forth a billion more?
The UNSC didn't. Lord Hood literally says, "I can't forgive you for what you did, but you have my thanks."
thank you
Jake B Hood didn't. The UNSC did, there is a diffrence....
343 sure does love their retcons...
Halo 3s ending always made my soul ache. It's the feeling of the end of an era
Was saddest halo
It’s sad because it’s the end of the original or COOL trilogy
Honestly with this being almost 2 years old I wasn't gonna leave a comment but I just had to say something. I really hope we see some new lore in Infinite regarding the Sangheili and Human relations.
The Sangheili followed orders from the Prophets. They were indoctrinated to believe whatever they were told by them, including that Humanity should be destroyed. The sangheili suffered great losses during the war and during/ after the Schism. To me humanity and the sangheili were both victims of the prophets manipulations. Neither should blame the other, and should start working together for the betterment of both.
@midgetydeath *chronic backstabbing disorder*
No, the elites still went along with Human extermination, so they share a lot of blame for that. It doesn't matter if they were deceived or indoctrinated. Every war criminal in history has their excuses.
@@redaug4212 "It doesn't matter if they were indoctrinated or decieved".
It kinda does, actually. Do you mean to imply that if the elites knew they were indoctrinated into a suicidal religion and knew the prophets only wanted the humans dead to keep their political power they would've followed them?
And im pretty sure its not like the elites joined the covenant of their own free will pretty sure they lost their own war against the covenant (correct me if im wrong on that) point is while yes they have a LOT of reperations to pay. They themselves arent exactly happy about the senseless destruction they caused
@@gojicandle8188 Yes and no. I'm saying that being indoctrinated doesn't mean you can't make your own decisions. The elites clearly had free will. They could have stood against the prophets if they didn't actually want to commit genocide, but they didn't because they already had an unhealthy obsession with war. That's why indoctrination is irrelevant because ultimately indoctrination had little to do with their willingness to go along with the eradication of Humanity. And I don't think the elites are all that broken up about what they did either. In fact most seem to want to pick up where the covenant left off lol.
because they are badass
So true XD
*kills 63% of population*
"they're cool though"
lmao -Chris
HaloFollower XD yep
HaloFollower LOL I agree
luke Skywalker the 2nd again we meet at last!
I WOULDNT FORGIVE THEM THEY INPREGNATED ME
Lavernious Tucker your conduct on chorus post war wasn’t much better, Tucker.
@-@ you f(*&$ an elite.....wtf is wrong with u
@@patriciamavis1274 He didn't fuck a Sangheli
It fucked him
Anything’s possible
@TeamWolfRules If you are killed by an infected.
Remember Reach!
Never forget Mombasa!
Honor Johnson!
i hoped after halo 4 humanity was on the rise and reforged a galactic empire against the alien threats... i mean, first alien contact and its hostile... the vast xenophobic attitude that would be rife. or maybe i just think... the only good xeno is a dead one.
Dave Replace the word "Xeno" with white or black and then think it through.
Dave warhammer fanboy? Burn the xenos.
xX Valtiel Xx I'm good thanks. White or black we are Human...you do realise that... and we are talking about a fictional universe so maybe you should think it through and lighten up a little.
Chris Spink yes chris haha exactly!
Dave Plus there's humanities curse much like the sith in starwars we will always seak to destroy one another when there's not a major war that aligns all our objectives as one. I mean right after the human covenant war ended the inssurectionists started to rise again.
The UNSC and Sangheli do have a tense relationship but they are at peace despite what happened in the war(there are groups and individuals on both sides that hate the other)
Read Halo:Hunters in the Dark. It goes into it some more
Why did you show George helping up the farmer girl when you said “eaten alive”?
Cus that what he probably did😋
Bow chica bow wow
@@joshuasilver4821 boom chicka bum bum
You hate Elites, don't you?
SWIHALOSTORM3 #WhiteLivesMatter
AK's RULE!! #Alllivesmatter
XxSolph GamingXx only whites.
#WhiteLivesMatter
End Martian racism now!
cpMetis screw that
#alllivesmatter
People don't know that the Arbiter himself is a mass murderer. He was one of the Covenant's best ship masters that took part in the glassing of Reach. Too put it bluntly, the Arbiter is a war criminal. He will never be able to make right what he and his kind did.
Honestly, I don't think humanity can ever trust the Sangheili as a good number of them are still doing their utmost to continue the Covenant's legacy. Let us not forget the Banished are filled with Elites that are working on acquiring their own Halo. The reason for this is they wish to fire the ring killing every man, woman, and child in the universe. Where are the Swords of Sanghelious while all of this is going on? Don't know, but the current battle between the UNSC and the Banished has gone on for 6 months straight. I refuse to believe the Infinity didn't send out distress signals during the onset of hostilities...I think we're being ignored.
Ik it been a year but, It's because ONI have been fueling the civil war between the Sangheli factions. They basically made the Arbiter too busy trying to keep his power. Which would make things a lot more difficult to try and divert resources to assist the UNSC.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Buck technocally lost some of his friends and soldiers to the internal struggle within the human wars.
Sure the humans lost lots of innocent lives, but your forgetting the sangheli also lost lots of innocent lives aswell, if you think about it they both have lots in common and the sangheli probably think the same way about the humans as they think of them. But both factions have the same goal, destroy the Covenant. You say the Arbiter killed millions but then he realized he shouldn't of done those things, the master chief and other human legends could of done the same thing. To conclude both factions have lots millions and have lots of similarities which is why they foregive the humans and the sangheli as they both realized their mistakes and want to make it right.
Humanity suffered more casualties than covenant. That's for sure!
Also, the Covenant sneak-attacked Humanity, glassing entire planets full of people (meaning that genocide was the goal, not just a consequence of reaching their goal) and killing tens of billions of civilians, yet throughout the entire Halo franchise, how often are Sangheili civilians even shown let alone killed, how many Sangheili children were murdered or allowed to be ripped apart or eaten alive by the UNSC? How many non-combat medics were massacred as they selflessly tried to save the lives of their compatriots? The answer is statistically insignificant when compared to the death toll on Humanity and most of the Sangheili who died were either trained killers with the intent to massacre anyone who's not an ally, or they were directly and knowingly aiding those killers (such as pilots or military leaders) and as such could hardly be called innocent. So that's not really a fair comparison to draw.
Neion8 Genocide was the goal of the Prophets not the Elites. The Prophets had political and religious reasons to destory humanity. The Elites were bound by honour to serve in the covenant military, although this changed as the Elite huearchy began to question the authority of the Proohets and religious doctrine.
TouchTheRazor it’s kinda stupid because let’s change the roles here what if the elites were nazis and the UNSC was the Jewish people in ww2 do you expect Jewish people to forgive them?
Humanity had no mistakes, they were only defending themselves, i mean what do you expect, that they don't kill any sangheili when they are trying to kill them? For all humanity knew they were being attacked for no reason and not just that but being exterminated, the elites were the ones actively seeking to destroy humanity, not the other way around
I will say though, Buck did witness the death of Elites at the hands of the brutes. I think he did see how you can’t blame an entire species for the deception what a number did. Not all elites, (though many MANY did) , they were all deceived and lied to.
I think the internal conflict on that though, should’ve been touched on more.
What book is that when he witnessed it
@@onikai7055 In ODST when your doing the first mission with Buck if you look around you find dead Elites that look to have been killed by brutes.
@@mavraszunwoody2527 it’s because they have been killed my brutes
@@onikai7055 Yeah but he doesn't know for sure.
@@mavraszunwoody2527 it’s because it’s classified by ONI that’s why. However it’s confirmed that the prophet of truth ordered the brutes to eliminate the remaining elites in New Mombasa after Regret left.
#gruntlivesmatter
Imran Oliver_10 Yes! Spread the word!
No, fuck those Kamikaze-ing fart breathing morons. They're a fucking pain to fight on legendary lol
You can tell I'm bored
except for those that support 343...
Imran Oliver_10 Well said!
Once Arbi knew his actions were wrong, that he had slaughtered or ordered the slaughter of a billion for falsehoods, he didn't break, he didn't cry or beg for forgiveness, he didn't hide the truth to maintain his honor. He turned around and faced all of his wrongs, and then took a step towards that harsh truth, of only so he could redeem himself.
Lord hood: I remember how this war started, what your kind did to mine. I can’t forgive you but you have my thanks for standing by to the end, Hard to believe that he’s dead. So Lord Hood is a Fleet admiral of the UNSC Navy and he isn’t forgiving the elites who killed innocent lives and destroyed worlds
cuz elitelivesmatter
All I'm saying is that with all these battle hardened characters you would think a few off them would show how much they hate any former Covenant member. There were just to many people murdered to just forgive and forget.
jonathan reed some did........they're called the insurectionists
batterysurf #bring back playable elites
Grunt lives matter and jackel lives matter
Ean Barber not Jakels but grunts matter.
Title: *"Why Did the UNSC Forgive the Elites?"*
Lord hood: i cant forgive you
Honestly, I understood perfectly that Vademe was not always the good guy. Before watching this video I was aware that he led the Fleet of Particular Justice, and that he was one of the most effective commanders the Prophets had under their boots.
In fact, Vadame was the one who spearheaded the Fall of Reach, the most devastating blow to the UNSC and humanity in all of Halo Lore, the very event that kicked off the entire Halo story line. Don't believe me? If you pay attention to halo 2's cut-scenes, Vademe explains to the prophets that he took the Fleet of Particular Justice and chased the Pillar of Autumn to Halo. And we all know that the Pillar of Autumn slip-space jumped from Reach to get to Halo, therefore, he had to be, and was present in Reach's orbit as it was destroyed, and Locke's lore terminals in the remastered version of Halo 2 explain that Vademe was directly responsible for the fall of Reach.
But just because Vademe was a ruthless leader, doesn't mean that he was a truly bad guy, it's as was said, he was doing what he thought was right until he realized Halo's true colors, and he wasn't a bad guy even before that, refusing to kill UNSC soldiers without a fight, when he caught a platoon in the middle of preparing, he gave them time to finish gearing up before attacking them.
So basically, Vademe, AKA; the Arbiter, was not a bad guy really, Lord Hood said it himself that he can't forgive Arbiter, but he could thank him for what he did to help humanity towards the end of the war.
What pisses me off more than anything in the 343 games is the whole reason behind the Sanheli civil war. The surface reason why they don't want to join the Arbiter is because of how many Sanheli were lost in the human covenent war. I'd be more believing if the humans expressed that they were undergoing a civil war too for the same reasons, however this is never been mentioned (to my knowledge) in any of 343's games. I've looked at the raw numbers, humanity has a better argument than the Sanheli in this topic hands down.
There... there are STILL separatist factions among humanity despite having to unify against the Covenant.
Yeah uhm Humanity has been dealing with insurrectionists since before the human and Covenant war and the insurrectionists were still fighting the UNSC during and after the war.
Most separatist factions ceased operations with the UNSC and even joined them in the fight. The Covenant was too powerful. I hated why the Elite civil war happened. Factions broke off to continue the belief in the Covenant's original idea even though Halo 3 proved the entire idea bullshit and Elites now had direct proof that Humanity had the Mantle of Responsibility. See I thought the logical conclusion for Halo 4 is that the Elites and UNSC continue to finish off the remaining Covenant forces because the lore said the Covenant Empire is massive. They still control most of human space and the other side of that empire controls systems yet to be discovered by the UNSC.
I think the big part here is less forgive and forget and more moving on. Angsting over what had happened is logical, but when given the choice between perpetuating a fight you may not win that doesn't need to continue or letting things go so all sides can heal, most leaders and even military personnel would pick the latter. It's a choice between acting on emotion for revenge and acting on logic for peace and likely very survival. Even in real life alliances can shift rapidly and opinions of different countries can change in the span of a few years.
Thel Vadam (Arbiter) also believed in peace aspecially after the Covenant War...many Elites didnt want peace...but the Elites who did want peace fallowed Thel Vadam and that is when The Swords of Senghieleios came to be which was lead by Thel Vadam
Revenge is not justice
Sgt Palooggoo sometimes it is, depends on the situation.
I think it's important to note that fighting alongside someone can do crazy things to the mind. It's really important to note the Elites literally saved humanity. Following this during the events of halo 3 and on wards there would be plenty of moments where marines and elites would have fought together, literally saving each others lives. Finally they have a pretty good place to direct that hate. Out of all the aliens the elites are probably the most likeable for humans and they have a common enemy in the animalistic brutes
Let's be honest though. The Elites only saved Humanity because they had common enemies and all life in the galaxy was about to be destroyed. If circumstance hadn't forced them to switch sides, they would have had no qualms with exterminating Humans entirely.
Man, watching the cutscenes from halo 3 in this video makes me so happy inside. Brings back childhood memories of my brother, my bestfriend, and I playing this masterpiece of a game.
Thel'Vadam followed orders like a good soilder in a religious cult when he woke to what was going on around him he sided with the UNSC to take out the covenant leadership to save HIS people, yes he has changed and now values human life and I'm sure his "sins" will forever weigh on him but he put his people first. His story is why I love his character
3:00
"Is he calling me old?"
I think the situation is similar to what happened between America and Russia in World War II. As long as they have a common enemy like the covenant or forerunners, They are allies. But eventually When both sides have rebuilt, their differences will lead to full scale war. And with the humanity getting more and more access to forerunner and covenant technology, It may not be as one sided this time
2:16 Engineer gives Johnson a light
Also, the Elites and many other species were fed the misinformation about the Great journey for thousands of years and when the Prophets lied to them about us being a blasphemy, they believed them without questioning (a few exceptions existed, of course) and had they known of the Prophets' lies before the start of the war, they wouldn't foolishly genocide us.
Make this top comment.
Will do pal ! You're right, people seem to forget that culture tremendously influences the way we think, thus making us do actions that aren't objectively worthy.
Buck's life is really hard. I can see him being so shaken up about Mickey betraying him that he becomes more comfortable about the elites than some people.
actually humanity forgave covenant cos of the grunts,they were very dangerous and humanity knew!LOL
War has the capacity to turn a group of people into "less then us", and once you do that you can justify all sorts of awfulness.
Thats just War.
I love the fact that Engineer lit Forges cigsr for him, honestly the cutest part.
An interesting question, does strangling a man, only to stop as he begins to faint mean you saved him from certain death?
A lot of people seeming real concerned over genocidal xenos when they should probably be thinking how they'd feel if their family was horrifically executed or eaten alive by the unggoy, kig yar, yan'mee, sangheili, or jiralhanae. Ignorance is no excuse for the abominable or horrible. It is only a tool.
At this point, it'd be more reasonable for Humanity to pick up stakes, leave Earth, and run to the far side of the galaxy. There's nothing left in the direction of covenant space but a potential repeat for the annihilation or extermination of Humanity from remnants of the Covenant.
Give the elites a pat on the back, point into the distance and ask them why there's a hippo in a tutu, and make smoke before they turn around to ask what a hippo or tutu is. Humanity as of 2553 doesn't need allies, it needs to be left the fuck alone and left to go somewhere else of its choosing without the covenant apologists coming back to finish the job.
I mean if you want to simplify things to the point of absurdity sure. Given that one of the most reprehensible bits of the covenants actions was generally enslaving much of it's own populace, kig-yars, unggoy and hurragoks prominently it's more than a little unfair to blame everyone born into that society for everything that occurred especially given well, said society collapsed into internal fighting over the issue.
It would sort of be like going back in time and saying the Gauls and celts should have sailed to Antarctica as Rome was collapsing because obviously, every roman was unforgivable because of their government.
...or do you actually not know how to separate the actions of those with authority from those without?
I recently saw a documentary where a guy had an AK pointed at the back of his head and 10 minutes later he was smoking and taking pictures with then. it was a documentary about some guys who retraced Marco Polo's path.
TBC1 curious what doco this is lol
Aren't the human eaters Jiralhanaes? iirc Sangheili doesn't eat humans or other species, while the brutes had a laundry list of such actions
Waiting for the elites to fight with humanity against cortana
Sometimes I wish I was in the halo universe, but then I realize how messed up it would be at the same time
He forgot to look at these points:
elites did not know why they were fighting the humans instead of getting them to join the covenant.
the prophets deceived them due to the humans existence threatening the covenant’s religion.
Thel’s reluctance for human involvement on sangheilios is likely in part to not wanting any more human deaths attributed to him even if they were helping him.
It would be really cool if 343 could explore this subject more. Humans protesting against the Elites integration into human culture. I'm sure it there would be a lot of political turmoil and differing opinions of humans. Maybe have the Arbiter walking through a human city and protesters screaming at him. Maybe a segment where he relives the attrocities he commits in the past.
The Elites are logical, honorable beings.
When they realized the prophets had lied about the artifacts they realized their folly, and understood the only way to stop the prophets and the destruction of the universe was to join the UNSC as brothers in arms.
They forgave them because they needed to otherwise humanity was at it's peak, idk if MasterChief has any plans to seek justice but the Arbiter stated "I called him Ally, even friend".
Cuz humans aren't assholes.
Except for the ones on UA-cam.
And the ones that are driving vehicles.
This could be a whole game, "Halo: Old Blood"
You can tell in the games the arbiter, vel, holds the atrocities of what he did still in his mind. He knows what he did and has never asked for forgiveness for the crimes he committed, all he can do now is work for peace, to unify his planet and forge a new path for both races. Even looking at our history, the crimes committed by all waring factions of ww2. Everyone suffered at each other's hands, done things people will be unable to forget, but it doesn't mean it has to stay as such. I think the way how humanity and the elites are slowly coming together in peace should be looked at as a more uplifting message about the ability to not forget, but be able to forgive. Condemning a race because of a few is unjust in itself, I'm sure no one will be able to forget the genocide both inflected on each other, but as time passes hopefully a new bridge can be made for the best of both.
“Is it better to born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”
The Arbiter was a soldier. He was following orders. That's what a soldier does.
"Perhaps rebel factions will seek justice" yep, that happened in the comics already where a group attacked a peace conference between all 3 major species, the humans Elites and Brutes.
Never Forget Reach!!! :'(
And as goes for the Covenant.... the Sangheili in particular.... Eh. I feel like if an individual Sangheili feels personally remorseful for what happened on the war and he or she desires companionship, friendship etc, I could possibly find a feeling to forgive. But as the species as a whole? We have been taught to think that Sangheili are mindless murderous evil doers who show little to no mercy. That said, it would come as hard to believe that if they are asking for HUMAN mercy to forgive we are dumbfounded. We don't know if we should trust that they are speaking the truth or if they are just faking it. Another thing to consider, especially for xenophobes, is these aliens have the capability and shown us this, to kill us. Some even enjoy doing that, but to write it off as "following orders" is stupid, the Nazis "followed orders" too and look, we are still arresting any man regardless how old and physically weakened he is, and hauling him to finish his life in a prison for something he did as small as it could've been 70+ years ago. Now if we are just going to say the Sangheili mean their apology, are we just going to assume they ALL truly regret their actions? Hell no, not even Thel Vadam does, and he'd probably be the first to! So if we are doing that whole "justice never rests" thing with FORMER Nazis, why be inconsistent and let the Elites off easy for their billions of innocent human deaths they caused? Is it because they are aliens? If we cannot forgive actions our own species does to itself how can we forgive an extraterrestrial species that has done millions of times worse to humanity?!
And lastly, as far as integration goes.... "this is either the best decision you (we) have ever made or the worst." - Lord Hood
Letting Sangheili, an extraterrestrial FORMER COVENANT species integrate into our society and species is either going to make our societies better, or make it a whole lot more complicated and worse. Political, cultural, religious, even ethnic, ethical, and social aspects are going to change. That's what happens when a non-human species begins interacting with humans. I think it is too early after the war to tell whether that integration is ultimately good or bad, I'm hoping its good, but there are a lot of uncertainties, and not just as a society but diplomatically things just got tons trickier.
Simply put: It is much easier to believe a single individual's apology than an entire species. The enforcement of justice should be dealt with caution, forgiveness should be a delicate process between human and Sangheili species, alien integration into human society is either going to make it break us as a species, but I hope Sangheili and humans can become friends.
The elites and races like the grunts were treated as slaves and weren't given a choice
But the Sangheili embraced their position in the Covenant quite quickly as well.
Of course they did. It was a choice between having the second-best spot, being treated like dirt, or outright extermination.
The Arbiter was not evil. He was a soldier, a warrior of the Covenant and of his faith. But he was also honorable. There was an incident where the Thel 'Vadum and his forces invaded a human base and breached into the barracks while the marines were just getting dressed. He made his soldiers wait, giving the humans the time needed to put on their armor and grab their weapons. A fair fight. It was war, and if i might quote General Sherman, "I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell."I am tired and sick of
war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired
a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud
for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.
Read more at: www.brainyquote.com/quotes/william_tecumseh_sherman_190604I am tired and sick of
war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired
a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud
for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.
Read more at: www.brainyquote.com/quotes/william_tecumseh_sherman_190604
Hmmm, I think the more appropriate question would be: Why didn't the Elites ever apologize to the UNSC?
I think that helping defeat the flood is a good apology.
Why didn't America apologise to Japan? It's one of those irritating questions.
People aren't evil forever, they can change. But again, this is a video game we are talking about. Who gives a fuck. I like the elites because the are cool, and the Spartans are overrated. There I said it.
@@deece1482 lol are you searching for my comments or something? I just got 4 replies from you on comments I made on three different halo videos in the span of like 15 minutes.
Humanity wouldn't need their help in the first place if they hadn't been waging a genocidal war that destroyed countless planets. Have you thought about that?
And why should America apologize to Japan? You do know that Japan started the war in the Pacific, yes?
You really prefer space dinosaurs over your own kind? You dishonor your title, xeno lover.
Id say its only fair to glass the planets of the covenant...
I’m surprised that humanity has not gone PURGE THE ALIEN, at this point in halo
I should point out that Humanity did NOT forgive the Elites.
Humanity came tolerate the Elites. They never forgave them.