As Dino said.. they shouldn't know what they are shooting. Has to be a double-blind test. Also, he needs to be coached the same each way.. otherwise not a valid test.
Nice wind calls and nice shooting. I would consider giving the gunner crew the ammo in double-blind fashion, like ammo X and ammo Y, then don't let them know what is what till its over. Letting the numbers fall where they will. Thanks for the efforts in any case and have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Thanks Dino, We thought about doing the blind test but the annealed brass stands out quite a bit due to the annealing marks. We don't thing this effected the result at all.
@@annealingmadeperfect1257 I'm pretty sure you are right. Long shots require wind calls and those must be done in an equal and impartial manner for the results to be balanced. I'm thinking 300 yard groups, where the wind has far smaller contribution, would have said the same thing. Looking forward to the rest of the tests. Cheers.
@@annealingmadeperfect1257 It was magazine fed so the shooter would not be able to tell if it was annealed or not. Also, you changed the method of shooting with the annealed string by calling out "ready" and "hold"..unlike the first string. Choosing 1000 yards to see the effects of annealing vs not annealed introduces significant contributions from human error and wind conditions.. I haven't seen the summary yet but I hope there is some scientific rationale to support any results. Other than that, nice shooting for both strings...Damn...
1 group shot with a Cold barrel. 1 group shot with it Hot. The last shot of the first string is centered like the first shots of the second string. Sounds like barrel temp is a bigger player than Annealing.
Would have been better if they’d have called wind the same for both. And if they did it blind and only one guy keeping quiet knew which was which, as to not influence results. Surely they were wanting the annealed ones to better, especially based off their reactions. I really have no doubts annealing makes a difference and works, but I wish these were results were better executed so you could trust these results more.
Makes no difference what the back ground noise or talking was about, its up to the shooter, and at that distance one hell of a job shooting....you aim at the same point, if the wind is blowing 4 or eight miles per hour if the wind stays the same you will have the same impact....can not get much better than what was shown....
Say u accidentally get 2 cases mixed up and they are one firing off .. say one is 2x fired and another is 3x fired .. (annealing everytime). Will thier b that much difference n down range performance?
Now that many F class matches use electronic targets, you get velocity and SD at the target. Granted it also takes the environmental factors into account at that distance. Point being, I've shot enough matches to see the difference annealing makes.
Even tho this does prove annealing makes a big difference I would love to see a test of amp annealed brass and then the old way with a gas bottle by a person that does it often and the same with salt annealing I think then you may prove how well your machine works until then this test proved that annealing is better than not annealing
I anneal all my reloads after few times except for two calibers, 6.5mm .284 and a wildcat that is .458 made from a .338 lapua casing, which i anneal after each use. 6.5mm .284 to extend the casings lifespan and consistency of the handloads, and i have to do it with the .458 wildcat because if i dont the casings tear after few uses. Making the .458 casings from .338 lapua magnum already breaks so many casings that i dont want to lose a single one
To be honest, I don't even plan on shooting out to 1k yds.... Probably not even past 300 yds. Yet here I am, taking it in lol. Edit: I love how he's like you send it when I tell you to. 1k shots in the box on my demand. Also, I think it's crazy that they're politicians talking about disarming people. I thought that would be bad because it's the gen pop of owners but I never realized there's people who do this type of stuff for fun lol... You'd never see em coming. Geez, you know it's a far shot when it takes 3 seconds for it to make contact. Also, I like how this guy is like that's still a small group... And I'm over here pumped with the same group at 100 with my deer rifle LMAO
@vettelover2009 my point is, guy is having problems, these rounds are uncrimped, I bet (my theory) some mediocre handloads can be improved with a light crimp on the mouth. Of course annealing is important and should be done, but a light crimp is WAY underrated, and I don't understand the knee-jerk reaction against crimping. I've had no adverse reactions myself - granted I'm not a benchrest shooter, but a 3P across the course. The bullseye doesn't know the difference between .25 and .30 MOA. But if a crimp can turn a factory .75 moa into a .5 moa...
Nothing here proving that annealed brass is shooting better than non annealed brass, but just the shooter wind doping better in the second group. Hence proof would be just to show the standard deviations of speeds of the two groups, since this would be the real proof that there is a difference, with lower deviations of annealed brass that would be the proof instead. Also, would need to know how many shots the brass has since it was first prepped, since if talking brand new prepped brass, verse the same with annealing after prep and it put in to action, then would not expect any differences in mean SD speeds to start with.
Shoulda had some one load the clip with with a mix of each and not tell the shooter...then use the electronic shot system to separate shots and check moa of each.
@@pawe316 The full report on this video and experiment can be found with this link. There is a downloadable Excel sheet just above where the names of the participants are listed: www.ampannealing.com/articles/57/annealing-under-the-microscope/
Lol y’all should have muted the video Clearly guy got coached when he was shooting the annealed ammo Now it just makes it seem like annealing isn’t all that worth it
Hey I'm a huge fan of annealing... I anneal every firing with an amp annealer but one group was shot with wind calls and one wasn't that alone can change group size dramatically. So I guess I'm confused why you would release a video like this because it makes yall look like a sleazy used car salesman even though yall already make the best annealing machines on the market... If I would've seen this video before I bought one I would've had second thoughts about giving yall my money.
As Dino said.. they shouldn't know what they are shooting. Has to be a double-blind test. Also, he needs to be coached the same each way.. otherwise not a valid test.
True to what you say, but still it's doubtful that the shooter was influenced by knowing what he was shooting.
To me it sounds like they got their timing with the wind a lot better when they were shooting the annealed cases compared to the unannealed ones
Agree!
If I payed as much money as these boys did on their annealers I would want them to look better too 😂
Wow I wish I had a range like that near me
I'll give you the downside: It's freaking expensive. Not the range fees, all of the stuff you buy to take with you :)
Yea, but all you guys HELP EACH OTHER...
The spotting was different for the two sets. Makes a difference.
My god you guys are good shooters... The annealing test isn't even on my mind watching this. Wow
Nice wind calls and nice shooting. I would consider giving the gunner crew the ammo in double-blind fashion, like ammo X and ammo Y, then don't let them know what is what till its over. Letting the numbers fall where they will. Thanks for the efforts in any case and have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Thanks Dino, We thought about doing the blind test but the annealed brass stands out quite a bit due to the annealing marks. We don't thing this effected the result at all.
@@annealingmadeperfect1257 I'm pretty sure you are right. Long shots require wind calls and those must be done in an equal and impartial manner for the results to be balanced. I'm thinking 300 yard groups, where the wind has far smaller contribution, would have said the same thing. Looking forward to the rest of the tests. Cheers.
@@annealingmadeperfect1257 It was magazine fed so the shooter would not be able to tell if it was annealed or not. Also, you changed the method of shooting with the annealed string by calling out "ready" and "hold"..unlike the first string. Choosing 1000 yards to see the effects of annealing vs not annealed introduces significant contributions from human error and wind conditions.. I haven't seen the summary yet but I hope there is some scientific rationale to support any results. Other than that, nice shooting for both strings...Damn...
@@annealingmadeperfect1257 hit every round with a polishing wheel for a second, it will get rid of the annealing marks
That is actually quite amazing....nice shooting fellas
1 group shot with a Cold barrel. 1 group shot with it Hot. The last shot of the first string is centered like the first shots of the second string. Sounds like barrel temp is a bigger player than Annealing.
Would have been better if they’d have called wind the same for both. And if they did it blind and only one guy keeping quiet knew which was which, as to not influence results. Surely they were wanting the annealed ones to better, especially based off their reactions.
I really have no doubts annealing makes a difference and works, but I wish these were results were better executed so you could trust these results more.
Makes no difference what the back ground noise or talking was about, its up to the shooter, and at that distance one hell of a job shooting....you aim at the same point, if the wind is blowing 4 or eight miles per hour if the wind stays the same you will have the same impact....can not get much better than what was shown....
What a nice looking range.
Say u accidentally get 2 cases mixed up and they are one firing off .. say one is 2x fired and another is 3x fired .. (annealing everytime). Will thier b that much difference n down range performance?
Wow . That's impressive, great job .
so first or second (high) group was annealed????
2nd
which group was annealed vs non annealed? I assume the last group was annealed.
Now that many F class matches use electronic targets, you get velocity and SD at the target. Granted it also takes the environmental factors into account at that distance. Point being, I've shot enough matches to see the difference annealing makes.
hell of a nice range...
what is the rifle fired in this video, action, stock barrel, cartridge?
Why not let the barrel cool down
That tight group was not annealed brass???
What distance?
Even tho this does prove annealing makes a big difference I would love to see a test of amp annealed brass and then the old way with a gas bottle by a person that does it often and the same with salt annealing I think then you may prove how well your machine works until then this test proved that annealing is better than not annealing
I anneal all my reloads after few times except for two calibers, 6.5mm .284 and a wildcat that is .458 made from a .338 lapua casing, which i anneal after each use. 6.5mm .284 to extend the casings lifespan and consistency of the handloads, and i have to do it with the .458 wildcat because if i dont the casings tear after few uses. Making the .458 casings from .338 lapua magnum already breaks so many casings that i dont want to lose a single one
To be honest, I don't even plan on shooting out to 1k yds.... Probably not even past 300 yds. Yet here I am, taking it in lol.
Edit: I love how he's like you send it when I tell you to. 1k shots in the box on my demand.
Also, I think it's crazy that they're politicians talking about disarming people. I thought that would be bad because it's the gen pop of owners but I never realized there's people who do this type of stuff for fun lol... You'd never see em coming.
Geez, you know it's a far shot when it takes 3 seconds for it to make contact.
Also, I like how this guy is like that's still a small group... And I'm over here pumped with the same group at 100 with my deer rifle LMAO
why would you try to shoot for grouping, with a magneto on your barrel?
actually had better groups at 200 yds
My initial thoughts as well, but the groups don’t seem to mind
Why not?
Where can I get one?
Sweet range location
Nice range. Where’s it at?
You can now read the full report here: www.ampannealing.com/articles/57/annealing-under-the-microscope/
I’m in Nevada and we have all the room in the world for a range like this..... but we still don’t have one ☹️
My local range goes out to 1100. Doesn't have the fancy TV tho
Awesome work!
What are the chances these loads are uncrimped?
Nobody crimps precision loads
So... answer is 100%.
@vettelover2009 my point is, guy is having problems, these rounds are uncrimped, I bet (my theory) some mediocre handloads can be improved with a light crimp on the mouth.
Of course annealing is important and should be done, but a light crimp is WAY underrated, and I don't understand the knee-jerk reaction against crimping. I've had no adverse reactions myself - granted I'm not a benchrest shooter, but a 3P across the course. The bullseye doesn't know the difference between .25 and .30 MOA. But if a crimp can turn a factory .75 moa into a .5 moa...
@vettelover2009 👍 sure avoid it if you can. If troubleshooting, try it. I think some will be pleasantly surprised.
?????????? Who tf crimps ???????? Please tell me?
After annealing, I run my brass into my neck sizer and comes out with small scratches. Any thoughts? Thank you
Soft brass buildup on the neck bushing! Clean good. And you can use FINE steel wool to polish is off the case neck. Doesn't effect accuracy!
Had the same problem. Found out I was squeezing the necks down too far, .003-.004. Switched to a larger bushing. Scratches never came back.
As one shooter explains in other video, (stop neck sizing and go full length)..
Nothing here proving that annealed brass is shooting better than non annealed brass, but just the shooter wind doping better in the second group. Hence proof would be just to show the standard deviations of speeds of the two groups, since this would be the real proof that there is a difference, with lower deviations of annealed brass that would be the proof instead. Also, would need to know how many shots the brass has since it was first prepped, since if talking brand new prepped brass, verse the same with annealing after prep and it put in to action, then would not expect any differences in mean SD speeds to start with.
Shoulda had some one load the clip with with a mix of each and not tell the shooter...then use the electronic shot system to separate shots and check moa of each.
What clip? Does this look like a Mosin to you?
Ya I agree should be blind test and both should be done the same way...
Nice range!
Incredible
What caliber did this shooter shoot at 1000 yard?
6 BRA
@@annealingmadeperfect1257 thanks. Can you tell me what bullets you use?
@@pawe316 The full report on this video and experiment can be found with this link. There is a downloadable Excel sheet just above where the names of the participants are listed: www.ampannealing.com/articles/57/annealing-under-the-microscope/
Great spotting Hot shooting 👍
Amazing.....
Lol y’all should have muted the video
Clearly guy got coached when he was shooting the annealed ammo
Now it just makes it seem like annealing isn’t all that worth it
I ain’t ready! Hahaha amazing shooting
Three hundred plus yards a (second) the target never knew what hit em......
Yeah... it's steel. It doesn't know anything.
The target didn't even flinch. Didn't even care, and didn't back down either.
Needs to be a double blind test.
So dope. Good stuff y'all
magnetospeed no problem 😂 beautiful .
All that with a Mag strapped to the end of the barrel.....
A Manetospeed doesnt affect accuracy, just the point of impact that is easily adjusted for.
@@jammerlr7780 it can effect accuracy depending on harmonics.
@Strat Abuser thank you.
Hey I'm a huge fan of annealing... I anneal every firing with an amp annealer but one group was shot with wind calls and one wasn't that alone can change group size dramatically. So I guess I'm confused why you would release a video like this because it makes yall look like a sleazy used car salesman even though yall already make the best annealing machines on the market... If I would've seen this video before I bought one I would've had second thoughts about giving yall my money.
Drop powder charge .2g on brass that’s not annealed and try them I bet your groups tighten up
Why is that???
annealed brass is softer which will expand more causing less pressure kinda like a shock absorber
@@dwaynewood8156 Interesting!!! Thanks 👍
They trying hard to sell you $1600 machine , that's about it .
This is pointless!