Ken Keller describes the basic differences between the MiG15 and MiG17 Russian fighter Jets. Video on location at the Planes of Fame Air Museum in Chino, CA.
actually the mig 17 was "ready" for the korean war, just the USSR didnt want to stop fighter production so they carried on with the mig 15 instead. nice to see a side by side of the 2!
They also wanted to get rid of the 15s by exporting them to partner countries. They didn’t start exporting the 17 until the 17 was operational with the soviet republics.
Aside the wing fences, the MiG 17 Is longer than the MiG 15, But also the MiG 17 Uses 2 23mm Nudelman-Rikhter NR 23 Cannons and a 37mm Nudelman N37D Cannon , while the MiG 15 uses the same 37mm cannon but it has 2 23mm Nudelman-Suranov NS 23MM cannons. The difference between the NS 23 and the NR 23 is that the NS was used trough-out the second world war and it had a slower muzzle velocity and a slower fire rate than the MiG 17's NR 23 cannons. Also the MiG 15 uses the Klimiv RD 45 engine and the MiG 17 uses the Klimov VK1 engine wich is much better than the RD45
@@planemod8399 MiG 19 is twin engine, is has different tail than others, it has 3*30 mm cannons . Can actually perform supersonic speed in horizontal flight as compared to MiG 17 cannot.
And that Klimov VK1 has afterburner capability which greatly enhances the constant turn rates and top speed of the fighter compared to any MIG-15 and F-86 variant, while the MIG-15 was already a bit more maneuverable in terms of constant turn rate than any F-86.
You can't judge lengths correctly without comparing them! That's not a distinguishable feature if it's not like 10 times longer, you wisenheimers! You gotta see that without the two next to each other, when you see one of them alone, and then there's no comparison of lengths and heights and whatnot. So, you'd need sth else to be sure which is which.
As I understand it the fences were necessary to stop airflow which would have been directed into the side of the fuselage because of the swept wing angle. Other planes attempted to deal with this by building "wasp waist" bodies to deal with the inboard directed airflow. Fences seem like an easier solution.
No, it's to stop the airflow going the other direction, towards the wing tips. This "tangential airflow" reduces lift and increases drag significantly, hence the fence. The airflow then "spills" over the wing tip causing part of that reduction in performance. That's why modern airliners have all sorts of wing-tip devices. The thin waist has to do with supersonic flight and the so called "area rule".
The interesting thing is while the Migs used wing fences to maintain linear airflow, the F-86 utilized a slot at the leading edge of the wing. At higher angles of attack this created a vortice over the top of the wing that kept the airflow straight.
@@Booboobear-eo4es They were for different purposes. Slats were for stabilising and energising airflow at high AoA. Fences were to, as the joke implies, reduce the tangential airflow on a swept wing, which decreases lift and increases drag (the fences reduce this effect). To prevent the infamous sabre dance (which happens due to high-sweep-wing stalls), the 17 has different leading edge sweep on the outboard part of the wing, so that wing stalls first on the inside, which helps retain aileron authority.
@@Booboobear-eo4es ooh, yeah, that makes sense. Although again, for Sabre, that'd be high AoA only and essentially to "straighten" turbulent air, the fences are for low AoA and for slightly different purpose, but I guess they could overlap.
Much easier way to tell is that the MiG 17 is longer and some variants of it have an afterburner while the MiG 15 was never given an afterburner. Some MiG 17s also have a very noticeable radar in the nose
Useful info about their difference, but for everyone to know what is the aerodynamic purpose of the wing fences, here it is: It's not for improving the controls and they are more useless at high speeds! The only purpose of the wing fences is to straighten out (not smoothing out which is something else actually) the airflow on the desired surface of the wing (usually the upper surface) in order to reduce the spanwise flow (from root to tip) as much as possible in order to obtain a higher lift to drag ratio at moderate to high AoAs by considerably lowering the induced drag. Basically, they create a similar effect of having a higher wing aspect ratio. That's the only purpose of the wing fences. As a downside of it, they create greater drag at low AoA ranges (close to cruise) in subsonic, transonic and supersonic. The reason why they are there is to improve the turn rates of the plane and that's the main reason why even the MIG-15 (the MIG-17 does even better due to afterburner and a 3rd wing fence) has a better constant turn rate than any F-86 variant. Take those wing fences down and you'll see the drop in turn rate of the MIG-15 simply because the total drag is higher for the same given lift. That slight leading edge sweep reduction is also a contributing factor to increasing the lift to drag ratio as the wing aspect ratio gets a little higher from that. It's a slim advantage compared to the fences, but why not have a bit of a gain from that too, probably TSAGI has thought, because let's be honest, TSAGI was dictating about every aspect of how to design your wing according to what you wanted to achieve in flight.
You can't judge lengths correctly without comparing them! That's not a distinguishable feature if it's not like 10 times longer, you wisenheimers! You gotta see that without the two next to each other, when you see one of them alone, and then there's no comparison of lengths and heights and whatnot. So, you'd need sth else to be sure which is which. If you're at an airshow and there's a flyby of a single MiG-17 you'd go like: _'Look, it's bigger!'_ and the other dude was like _'Bigger like what?'_ Stupid. He talked about features that make it easier for people to tell them apart, because at a glance they look identical to laymen. Btw, the MiG-15 has wing fences too. Just one less.
Excellent video. So it looks like they were trying to reduce the sweep on the end of the wing. Perhaps to reduce stall speed? Subscribed. Cheers - Kirb
Differences between the MiG-15 and the F-86 Sabre The MiG-15 has a mid-wing configuration, while the F-86 has a low-wing configuration. The MiG-15 has a T-tail, while the F-86 has not The airflow is different. After entering through the nose, the airflow in the F-86 passes under the pilot, while in the MiG-15, the airflow is split in two and passed through the left and right sides of the pilot, creating a vertical air separation line on the front of the aircraft. The F-86 Sabre pilot sits higher because there is an air duct underneath, while the MiG-15 pilot sits almost buried in the aircraft body because the air duct is passed through the left and right sides of the pilot. The MiG-15 has its weapons under the aircraft next to the nose wheel, while the Sabre has its weapons on the side of the aircraft The MiG-15 uses a centrifugal flow turbojet engine copied from an English engine, while the F-86 uses an axial flow turbojet engine. The MiG-15's nose wheel folds forward, while the F-86 Sabre's nose wheel folds backward. To access the engine, you can open the rear of the MiG-15, while the engine of the F-86 Sabre can be lifted upwards.
got no problem with them, but wing fences are put on normally for a better air flow a cheat, but so what these were the days of fast Jet and wing fences can be found on lots of the jet types, even passenger models, however the Gulf Stream business jets, no bulky flight control actuators, just beautiful wings, what do you think ?
Look at the bottoms of the fusalages near the rear. The Mig 17 has a long ventral stabilizer. The Mig 15 does not. Looking down from the vertical the Mig 17 wing is more swept back.
Another difference between a MiG 15 vs MiG 17 is when you see the top view or bottom view of those 2 aircraft: the wing angles. MiG 15 have a more obtuse swept wing angle. Meanwhile MiG 17 have a more acute swept wing angle. Size also a difference. MiG 17 is slightly bigger than the MiG 15
Whoever narrarates will probably say the same thing, but the 15 had amazing maneuverability, but the 17 had more power and better firepower. Colonel Tomb flew the 15 till the day he died...and that dogfight lasted about a half-hour 😄 He only ran because he was bingo fuel.
Usually, fighters would be assigned odd numbers and bombers even. There were out-liers of course, but sometimes it was for example fighters based on a bomber airframe (Yak-28P), strike aircraft such as MiG-27, Su-17 (interestingly the export designations were Su-20 and 22 with even numbers) - and then there's the total outlier of Tu-128, which is an interceptor, but with an even number.
Mig-17 first flight January 14, 1950!! Not even close to it even being developed in the late of the Korean War - Korean War was June 25, 1950 - July 27, 1953!
Put some sidewinders on a Mig 17 and it would still shoot down newer fighters. The reason that Mig 17s did poorly in Vietnam and Egypt is because they had crappy armament and poorly trained pilots.
Late MiG-17s carried K-13 missiles, a decade after it was made jets were already reaching mach 2 while these were still subsonic. Its possible for them to shoot down jets but the technological advancements in mid cold war had them outclassed pretty quick
Yes,some MIG pilots were Chinese trained,some were Russian trained.It was more difficult to pass flight training in Russia so they were considered better pilots.
Mig-17 and mig-15 downed many F-4 phantom in vietnam war that's a big success you can search it on Wikipedia also about it. Even they prefer mig17 more than mig-21 for fighting
actually the mig 17 was "ready" for the korean war, just the USSR didnt want to stop fighter production so they carried on with the mig 15 instead. nice to see a side by side of the 2!
苏联当时已经将米格 17战斗机小分队派往中朝边境并参加空战，由于当时属于米格 17苏联最先进的飞机型号，所以保密性更高一些。
They also wanted to get rid of the 15s by exporting them to partner countries. They didn’t start exporting the 17 until the 17 was operational with the soviet republics.
Hello to all subscribers, I am proud that 38 years ago it happened that I 19-year-old boy flew on both types of aircrafts, peace and goodness for all.
Sir, you can be proud! Have a good day! Regards from Sweden / Finland!
Aside the wing fences, the MiG 17 Is longer than the MiG 15, But also the MiG 17 Uses 2 23mm Nudelman-Rikhter NR 23 Cannons and a 37mm Nudelman N37D Cannon , while the MiG 15 uses the same 37mm cannon but it has 2 23mm Nudelman-Suranov NS 23MM cannons.
The difference between the NS 23 and the NR 23 is that the NS was used trough-out the second world war and it had a slower muzzle velocity and a slower fire rate than the MiG 17's NR 23 cannons.
Also the MiG 15 uses the Klimiv RD 45 engine and the MiG 17 uses the Klimov VK1 engine wich is much better than the RD45
i wonder what the difference is between mig-17 and mig-19
@@planemod8399 MiG 19 is twin engine, is has different tail than others, it has 3*30 mm cannons .
Can actually perform supersonic speed in horizontal flight as compared to MiG 17 cannot.
And that Klimov VK1 has afterburner capability which greatly enhances the constant turn rates and top speed of the fighter compared to any MIG-15 and F-86 variant, while the MIG-15 was already a bit more maneuverable in terms of constant turn rate than any F-86.
Mig 17 is longer
@@cyan3216 no it's easy mig-15 is more tube like mig-17 is more narrow at the start and bottom
The angle of wing swept is bigger in mig-17 too
Always wondered. Thank you for making it clear, Ken Keller.
The MiG-17 also has an afterburner. Looking at the exhaust nozzle, you will be able to discern the difference right away.
No, 17F/PF does, but there were 17's without one. That said, yes, when it is present, the variable nozzle is a dead give away.
Mig-15 shorter tube with an engine
Mig-17 longer tube with an engine
You can't judge lengths correctly without comparing them! That's not a distinguishable feature if it's not like 10 times longer, you wisenheimers! You gotta see that without the two next to each other, when you see one of them alone, and then there's no comparison of lengths and heights and whatnot. So, you'd need sth else to be sure which is which.
It is also easy to distinguish the planes from the back since MiG-17 has an afterburner (the first mass-produced plane like this).
Mig 15: 35° Wing angle
Mig 17: 45° Wing angle
@@StrangerHappened not all of them tho, only the MiG-17F and PF had afterburners. Actually the most of the 17s did not have this feature.
Thank you so much for the clarification.
That was way deeper than I was expecting.
I can tell the two apart because the mig-17 doesn't look squished.
🤣.
Good video!
👍👍👍
As I understand it the fences were necessary to stop airflow which would have been directed into the side of the fuselage because of the swept wing angle. Other planes attempted to deal with this by building "wasp waist" bodies to deal with the inboard directed airflow. Fences seem like an easier solution.
No, it's to stop the airflow going the other direction, towards the wing tips. This "tangential airflow" reduces lift and increases drag significantly, hence the fence. The airflow then "spills" over the wing tip causing part of that reduction in performance. That's why modern airliners have all sorts of wing-tip devices.
The thin waist has to do with supersonic flight and the so called "area rule".
Allways liked these old birds.
The fins on the top of the wings, the 15 has two on each wing, but the 17 has three on each wing, with the two most outboard closer together
Love the MIG-15/17s designs, the swept wings and jets within the main body just ooze atomic era design
The USA used to say the wing ribs was to stop the wind from defecting to the wings edge.
Bwahahahahahaha ROFLMMFAO! Good one.
That's true.
The interesting thing is while the Migs used wing fences to maintain linear airflow, the F-86 utilized a slot at the leading edge of the wing. At higher angles of attack this created a vortice over the top of the wing that kept the airflow straight.
@@Booboobear-eo4es They were for different purposes. Slats were for stabilising and energising airflow at high AoA. Fences were to, as the joke implies, reduce the tangential airflow on a swept wing, which decreases lift and increases drag (the fences reduce this effect).
To prevent the infamous sabre dance (which happens due to high-sweep-wing stalls), the 17 has different leading edge sweep on the outboard part of the wing, so that wing stalls first on the inside, which helps retain aileron authority.
@@Booboobear-eo4es ooh, yeah, that makes sense. Although again, for Sabre, that'd be high AoA only and essentially to "straighten" turbulent air, the fences are for low AoA and for slightly different purpose, but I guess they could overlap.
Thank you so much for this highly instructive video!!!!!!!!
Much easier way to tell is that the MiG 17 is longer and some variants of it have an afterburner while the MiG 15 was never given an afterburner. Some MiG 17s also have a very noticeable radar in the nose
Useful info about their difference, but for everyone to know what is the aerodynamic purpose of the wing fences, here it is:
It's not for improving the controls and they are more useless at high speeds! The only purpose of the wing fences is to straighten out (not smoothing out which is something else actually) the airflow on the desired surface of the wing (usually the upper surface) in order to reduce the spanwise flow (from root to tip) as much as possible in order to obtain a higher lift to drag ratio at moderate to high AoAs by considerably lowering the induced drag. Basically, they create a similar effect of having a higher wing aspect ratio. That's the only purpose of the wing fences. As a downside of it, they create greater drag at low AoA ranges (close to cruise) in subsonic, transonic and supersonic. The reason why they are there is to improve the turn rates of the plane and that's the main reason why even the MIG-15 (the MIG-17 does even better due to afterburner and a 3rd wing fence) has a better constant turn rate than any F-86 variant. Take those wing fences down and you'll see the drop in turn rate of the MIG-15 simply because the total drag is higher for the same given lift.
That slight leading edge sweep reduction is also a contributing factor to increasing the lift to drag ratio as the wing aspect ratio gets a little higher from that. It's a slim advantage compared to the fences, but why not have a bit of a gain from that too, probably TSAGI has thought, because let's be honest, TSAGI was dictating about every aspect of how to design your wing according to what you wanted to achieve in flight.
The difference btwn a Mig-17 and a Mig-15 is a Mig-2. Duh!
Then they added 2 more again to make the 19🤣
Mig-17 is slightly bigger, has larger wings, has wing fences, and the tail is bigger. Oh yea the Mig-17 has a better engine.
You can't judge lengths correctly without comparing them! That's not a distinguishable feature if it's not like 10 times longer, you wisenheimers! You gotta see that without the two next to each other, when you see one of them alone, and then there's no comparison of lengths and heights and whatnot. So, you'd need sth else to be sure which is which. If you're at an airshow and there's a flyby of a single MiG-17 you'd go like: _'Look, it's bigger!'_ and the other dude was like _'Bigger like what?'_ Stupid.
He talked about features that make it easier for people to tell them apart, because at a glance they look identical to laymen. Btw, the MiG-15 has wing fences too. Just one less.
@@Claude-Eckel dumbass
God the planes or fame museum is great, I recommend EVERYONE goes at least once especially on a day where they fly one of their many planes
Excellent video. So it looks like they were trying to reduce the sweep on the end of the wing. Perhaps to reduce stall speed? Subscribed. Cheers - Kirb
Very informative, thanks. (In future, buy a headset mic or stay close to the camera !)
Both of them would be nice to have in my parking lot.
Looks like the tail section is angled differently and shaped a little different but maybe that's just me
The 17 has 2 pitot tubes, one on each wing tip, 15 has only one on one of the wings
Mig 17 has a way different tail then the 15
Isn't the MIG-17 a little longer in length?
Differences between the MiG-15 and the F-86 Sabre
The MiG-15 has a mid-wing configuration, while the F-86 has a low-wing configuration.
The MiG-15 has a T-tail, while the F-86 has not
The airflow is different. After entering through the nose, the airflow in the F-86 passes under the pilot, while in the MiG-15, the airflow is split in two and passed through the left and right sides of the pilot, creating a vertical air separation line on the front of the aircraft.
The F-86 Sabre pilot sits higher because there is an air duct underneath, while the MiG-15 pilot sits almost buried in the aircraft body because the air duct is passed through the left and right sides of the pilot.
The MiG-15 has its weapons under the aircraft next to the nose wheel, while the Sabre has its weapons on the side of the aircraft
The MiG-15 uses a centrifugal flow turbojet engine copied from an English engine, while the F-86 uses an axial flow turbojet engine.
The MiG-15's nose wheel folds forward, while the F-86 Sabre's nose wheel folds backward.
To access the engine, you can open the rear of the MiG-15, while the engine of the F-86 Sabre can be lifted upwards.
got no problem with them, but wing fences are put on normally for a better air flow
a cheat, but so what these were the days of fast Jet and wing fences can be found on lots of the jet types, even passenger models, however the Gulf Stream business jets, no bulky
flight control actuators, just beautiful wings, what do you think ?
Look at the bottoms of the fusalages near the rear. The Mig 17 has a long ventral stabilizer. The Mig 15 does not.
Looking down from the vertical the Mig 17 wing is more swept back.
Hehe, proud of my older brothers either way. No wonder why daddy Mikoyan gave me a pointier nose.
Nice
0:23 the difference in the appearance of the tail
Another difference between a MiG 15 vs MiG 17 is when you see the top view or bottom view of those 2 aircraft: the wing angles.
MiG 15 have a more obtuse swept wing angle. Meanwhile MiG 17 have a more acute swept wing angle.
Size also a difference. MiG 17 is slightly bigger than the MiG 15
Saw the MIG-15 side by side with F-86 at Smithsonian in VA... Sportscar vs. dump truck.
Thank you!
Whoever narrarates will probably say the same thing, but the 15 had amazing maneuverability, but the 17 had more power and better firepower. Colonel Tomb flew the 15 till the day he died...and that dogfight lasted about a half-hour 😄
He only ran because he was bingo fuel.
Why do Mig's bear odd numbers?.Mig 15, Mig 17,Mig 19 and so on.Is it on design grounds?.
Usually, fighters would be assigned odd numbers and bombers even. There were out-liers of course, but sometimes it was for example fighters based on a bomber airframe (Yak-28P), strike aircraft such as MiG-27, Su-17 (interestingly the export designations were Su-20 and 22 with even numbers) - and then there's the total outlier of Tu-128, which is an interceptor, but with an even number.
It does not matter comrade as long as you use "tovarisch stalin assisted flying and bias guided system"
Migs and Tomcats are my favorite
Mig-17 first flight January 14, 1950!!
Not even close to it even being developed in the late of the Korean War -
Korean War was June 25, 1950 - July 27, 1953!
Put some sidewinders on a Mig 17 and it would still shoot down newer fighters. The reason that Mig 17s did poorly in Vietnam and Egypt is because they had crappy armament and poorly trained pilots.
Late MiG-17s carried K-13 missiles, a decade after it was made jets were already reaching mach 2 while these were still subsonic. Its possible for them to shoot down jets but the technological advancements in mid cold war had them outclassed pretty quick
Yes,some MIG pilots were Chinese trained,some were Russian trained.It was more difficult to pass flight training in Russia so they were considered better pilots.
I 💘 my Molotok.
Think that’s why some of us came here haahahahah
Mig17 has an afterburner, Mig15 has none!
I need both fighters
PS - My Dad used to fly out of Chino in his Polish PZL-104 Wilga - has much changed in the last 40 years ?
Mig-15 was equipped with a balalaika but it was replaced with matryoshka in Mig-17
Bill Gates, at last, you've hatched!
Any bears?..
And the cockpit look
Mig-17 and mig-15 downed many F-4 phantom in vietnam war that's a big success you can search it on Wikipedia also about it. Even they prefer mig17 more than mig-21 for fighting
MIG-17-en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-17
they dont look identical 😂 The MiG15Bis looks shorter and MiG17 looks longer, plus the wing fences.
Soviet. They are Soviet jets.
mig 17 is an ez kill with a g91 in war thunder
neat
👍👍👍👍👍👍
Difference between 15 and 17 is 2
MiG 17, has an afterburner,
MiG 15 does not
MiG-17 also 1m londer than MiG-15.
Where is the mig-16
i don't need an american to tell me difference between mig 15-17. Go review your saber's and super saber!
You're unpolite. He doesn't need the guests like you in the comment section.
MIG- 15-en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-15