MiG-15 Vs. F-86 | Dueling Duos
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- MiG-15 Vs. F-86... which one wins the battle of the skies?
Check out our special Dueling Duo episode of Curator on the Loose! Join Senior Curator, Matthew Burchette as we compare and contrast these iconic aircraft. Only one legendary fighter will come out on top.
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Host/Curator: Matthew Burchette
Camera/Editor: Tori Hunt
Fun fact the first MIG-15's downed during dogfights in Korea weren't downed by F-86's they were downed by the Navy's lovely F9F Panther.
In fact there was an American pilot that downed 4 Migs in the same dogfight when Migs attacked him. He landed his Panther full of holes but still flyable. That's why during WWII Grumman was called ironwork.
Probably because being carrier based they got to the theatre first.
A Mig15 was once shot down by an F4U
@@felixgaede6754 When I was a kid I'm always confused to the F4U and FH Phantom 😁
@@bong4538 Not sure if you are only telling your personal story here or if you are trying to tell me that I was cunfusing the Phantom with the Corsair. But if so, then no, I actually mean the Corsair
Finally some one who give the deserved credits to the german design used for both planes.
The F-86 also had a flying tail which made it handle better in the trans-sonic region whereas the MiG-15 had a tradtional horizontal stabiliser and elevator arrangement.
The F-86 was used as a backdrop for many 1956 Plymouth car ads.
@@bobroberts2371 How interesting. I was a kid in ‘56 but I don’t remember that. Thanks for sharing.
This is true! Also, having the horizontal stabilizer and elevator at the top of the tail was a design misconception that caused a lot of trouble over time. The F-104 had one. There is a danger of the main wing blocking out the airflow over the tail during certain kinds of stalls, creating a severe loss of control. The British airliner, the BAC-111 had a "T" tail, and their "answer" to the problem was to have a stick shaker that would warn the pilots when they were about to get into trouble. That's a crude "fix" at best. The best place for the tail surfaces, preferably a flying tail, was low on the fuselage, but the Russians were copying a lot of data from the WWII Germans and, for once, the Germans got it wrong. The transonic handling qualities of the Mig-15 were shaky at best. For all of that, it had a lot of good qualities too.
While the sabre did have a stabilator it was no more maneuverable in pitch than the mig 15.
That is true, but, as ever, it is more complicated than that. The first model F-86A's didn't have the flying tail. They had conventional tails with elevators on the back. 500+ built. It was the "E" model that switched to the all flying tail where the fin as a whole moves. 450 built, and then the "F" model as well, and that was the majority with over 2200 built.
Your F-86 is from the Royal Canadian Air force. We flew this aircraft for a long time. What a great fighter.
Canadair produced a superior variation to the North American product
The F-86 was used as a backdrop for many 1956 Plymouth car ads.
CL-13
@@appa609 ye
They had one flying in air shows for the 2010 flying centenial
"What fool will sell us their secrets?"
The Soviets never paid the British for their engine design, as I understand it.
@@MrDgwphotos They didn't. But caving to the Soviets was nothing new.
The U.S. also stole fighter tech from the british around then too 🤣
@@billdewahl7007 I'm Polish and I can relate to what you said!
Same fool that will do BREXIT paid by the Russian propaganda machine ...
I've heard about the differences between the MIG-15, and the F-86. Though each had their strengths, at the end of the day, it was a fair fight.
yeah mig 8n vertical, but sabre as a rate fighter
mig guns harder for pilots to aim, but hit a lot harder when they landed. sabre had better ballistics, lower caliber. its a classic 6 in one hand situation.
A fair fight as far as equipment, but it's the pilot that counts in the end. With that said, I knew a couple of retired Air Force fighter pilots who said that the F 86 was the sweetest flying plane they had ever flown.
He really loves his job.
If I had his job I would be.
(inhales deeply) yeh man he sure does haha
The F-86 Sabre would have much better destructive firepower if it had been armed with four or six 20 mm cannons instead of the six .50 cal machine guns. The USAF learned its lessons after the Korean War and armed the newer F-86Ds and F-86Hs and the later F-100s with 20 mm cannons.
The wing fences are not there to solve the "hand built" assertion. But to solve an issue the F86 also shared. F86F's had similar fences, and so do planes up till this day.
sources?
and which other modern planes still have wing fences please.
@@drperky7008 MIg17, Mig 19, A-6 intruder, a lot of airliners use just a fence along the leading edge. And its not to fix "build quality" issues, but it one way to fix an aerodynamic issue all swept wing aircraft have. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_fence
Function of the wing fence was to prevent washout of air flow which was a pervasive problem in high swept wings. Mig-19, had the largest wing fences.
@@TripleAce1 Wing fences are a rather simple solution to maintain stable, front-to-back airflow over highly-swept wings at high speeds. Although they're highly effective for this purpose they also cause a degree of increased aerodynamic drag, especially while maneuvering at lower speeds. Western designers have traditionally looked at more complex solutions at solving high-speed airflow deviations over swept wings, preferring to not use wing fences at all if avoidable. If not, they tend to use the smallest fences possible. For example, the first fighters designed to routinely operate at supersonic speeds in level flight were the North American F-100 Super Sabre and the Mikoyan/Gurevitch MiG-19 "Farmer". Both aircraft featured highly-swept wings designed to decrease compressibilty near, at, and beyond Mach 1 at altitude. The F-100 used wide-span, variable-position leading-edge slats on both wings, combined with two very small wing fences near the tips to stabilize the high-speed airflow over the wings. The MiG-19, by contrast, used two extremely large mid-span wing fences with no variable leading-edge slats at all to solve the same purpose. This amounts to different design philosophies used by the designers of different countries to solve similar problems...
That comes from the inherent bias that most westerners have against the USSR then and Russia now. They must find flaws even when they're not there! The USSR or Russia always has to be below the US' level on everything. Notice how he said the Russians got 'help' from German designs while the US, which essentially built the same thing, simply 'used' German designs?
Boosted controls, automatic leading edge slats, a stabilator and the newer lead computing gun sight were refinements that gave the Sabre an edge. Boosted controls levels the playing field by reducing physical exertion in a tight turning fight. The Canadians had the most powerful Sabre using their own turbine of 7,500 lbs thrust.
Oh thanks a bunch bro. Enjoyed your Vid huge ! Am a cancer patient ( worry not because I have both fists doubled up and will fight like a junkyard dog ) and sometimes I get bored as heck. One can only read a surf UA-cam and such so much. Then along comes a new one that entertains me and mucho gracias for that ! 5 star vid in my book.
I am glad you guys were able to take on Matt from Wings Over the Rockies! I loved his content from there and it's great to have him at my favorite museum!
Out of all the jet aircraft the United States used in its history, the F 86 will always be my favorite
The F86 is becoming my favorite. It just looks so cool and has a lot of interesting stories. The last gun fighters.
Mine too..
@@andrewlabat9963 My favorites used to be thr FW190, Me163, and Me262, and the F teens. But the Mig 15 and the F86 are both REALLY cool.
Great job on the video, can't wait for the museum to re-open.
Interesting how people say the Me-262 was the superior aircraft over Allied jets because it had axial flow engines of the future but ignore the fact that the F-86 had an axial flow engine while the Mig-15 had a radial flow engine.
lower specific fuel consumption. Radials are less efficient
262 is a 1st generation jet fighter and 86/15 were 2nd generation fighters.
Actually, it's called...centrifugal flow...not "radial"...!!!
I want to fly a MiG-17. My all time favorite plane.
This was a fantastic video! I was due to visit the MoF from Australia last year but alas covid happened. I look forward to visiting again in a few years.
Very good. Thank you.
Excellent stuff. Details, details. Great video. Thanks.
I think it was the British Labor party that gave the NENE engine to Stalin. (for research purposes of course). Australia, the RAAF, later took up the Sabre and built it around the RR Avon engine, removed the wing leading edge slats, bigger air intake, 30 mm canon and a lot bigger range.
cheers.
nae nae engine
I know the ALP can't spell, but the British equivalent could - they just put Comradely
solidarity above the national interest As to the CAC Avon Sabre - spot on.
@@drperky7008 sounds like roadrunner😂
I really appreciate the detailed information
Sir kurt tank also designed hf-23 Marut for India...It was India's first jet fighter plane.
Do you mean HF-24? That fighter wasn't very successful.
We, Australia, put a Rolls Royce Avon engine in it and 4 20mm cannons.
These two planes really stand out! Basically my two favorite aircraft, and dont forget the dr-1 triplane that the red baron died in! Its the coolest of all.
This video gives the impression that both aircraft are roughly the same size. When looking at both from above, at Smithsonian # 2 in Virginia, the Mig-15 looks much smaller, a virtual sports car.
Sabre wins for aesthetics alone, my favorite aircraft when it comes to that
wow what a great video. some new things there. i had no idea of the mig 15 being hand built! indeed in a russian documentary soviet pilots say the koreans had around 20 hours of training and that was it such was the pressure.
Nice Job Matthew, very informational
Hmmm. He concludes the major difference between the two was in the mid and later Korean war the F86 used more experienced pilots. In the beginning, the Russians did. So....that's not really a reason to conclude the F86 was that much better.
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing when I saw your comment. The conclusion about which air raft was better was due to pilot skill rather than the characteristics that distinguished the airplanes.
The last MiG-15 pilot to be shot down in the Korean War was, by the Russians' own admission, a Russian pilot. Per standing orders, he committed suicide to avoid capture.
It is better because of the bubble canopy, situational awareness is OP. Look for John Boyd
Had never seen the firing pass against a B-29 before. It's at 9:19.
Nice documental! 👍
How cool is that ??
Freaking cool !!
I’ve lived in Washington my entire life but I still haven’t been to the museum of flight yet. I can see the first 747 parked outside when I drive by on the freeway. I need to go soon.
Get yourself here!
@@museumofflight when are you open?
@@patfromamboy We're open seven days a week, 10 AM - 5 PM.
@@museumofflight Thanks a lot!
Locals rarely visit the touristy stuff of their own town. I spent a few months in Orlando (back in the 90s) and I couldn't find anyone that was up to go to Disney.
I don't believe the Soviets put wing fences on the Mig-15 because of poor hand-built construction as you suggest. They put them there because of design flaws inherent to the wing itself. They were there to block span-wise air flow. The Americans would have used vortex generators instead.
- you are right about them trying to correct the air-flow with those flaps.
Just found this channel. Very cool!
The F-86 looking mildly suprised like •o•
And the MiG 15 looks just astounded like •○•
And that’s the real difference between them. The look of mild surprise always wins against completely dumbfounded.
I've been to the awesome Museum Of Flight. How cool is that!?!
Hey Matt, your pronunciation is incorrect; its not the 'Ne-Ne' engine (lol) its pronounced 'Neen'; the engine was named after the river Nene in England. Rolls Royce named some of their jet engines after Rivers in England such as the Trent and the Derwent.
That was interesting
You guys are the best! Can't wait to come back and see you all!
Thank you! We can't wait to be back in action.
Which Canadian F86r was that in the video, mark 6s put out 7200 thrust compared to the early US F86 5200.
"How cool it's that!?!"
My grandad flew the F86 Saber and F84 Thunderjet as well as a menagerie of other aircraft during his time in the USAF.
the 50s were higher velocity and higher fire rate; making them more accurate and got more hits.
the f86 was armored and far more survivable.
That's crazy to put a complete rookie into a MiG with that complicated aiming system. I bet that was a huge factor in that lopsided ratio. It must have been overwhelming for those new MiG pilots.
Hi man,I loved the comparison, very knowable with interesting facts on both planes. My favourite has to be the Mig 15, but what do I know. Peaceful respect. ✌️ ❤
Best description of a mig 15 I ever heard was “flying tractor”.
I love how he is whispering I think its cause he knows most of us are watching this at night
10:50 PM...
Goodness, this guy speaks as if he’s going a Saturday morning kids show?
I wonder if pot is legal Seattle?
Yeah interesting video obviously but I have to say, get on with it as this video is not supposed to be for the entertainment of young kids but for grown men!!
I have to move on otherwise I'll be here until next summer!!
Feck!...i want to live in that museum.......Brilliant!
As a Brit living near the river Nene I'm definitely aware there's some controversy over how it should be pronounced.
I can say with certainty that "Nae-Nae" is not either of them 😂
2:30 “for civilian purposes only”
That RCAF Canadair license-built Sabre you have had a more powerful Orenda powerplant than the GE J47. ;) Thank you for keeping it indoors in such pristine condition!
In an otherwise excellent documentary, you left out an important fact. Yes, the Mig 15 outperformed the F 86 at higher altitudes, but on the deck the Saber and the Mig were were evenly matched. In fact, the Saber was as much as 50 mph faster than the Mig nearer to the ground.
Ha ha! Excellent education in a few minutes, thanks brother from Wenatchee! See you soon!
that was great F8 six m15 video
Don't all airframe mounted pilot controlled aircraft guns get different aim points to a convergence range (around 1000ft)?
The Americans got to wear pressure suits, permitting pilots to withstand higher Gs. The 50 BMG ammo was API (Armor Piercing Incendiary), allowing the pilot to reach 1000 yards at high altitudes ≈ 40,000 feet. The Migs weren’t too sturdy, and often as not, the API rounds would light them up. The 37mm cannon could take out a plane with a single shot, but its trajectory looked like a punkin’ ball. The American pilots were more experienced and just better trained. I recall the flag at Nellis AFB (Red Flag - the Air Force version of Top Gun) flew at half-mast a lot more often than you would hope. Oops, I’m thinking 1962; I don’t know what was going on in ’52, but the story is too cool to leave out.
Listening to you made me feel I'm back watching Sesame Street. Sheeesh...
Sunny Day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet
Man, no matter how awesome MiG would look, but i am a huge fan of F-86 Sabres. I love this aircraft. Simply Awesome American.
As always, pilot skill by far is the most importatn factor be it tank or plane, but great video =)
@Ignacio Muñoz Diaz what a pendejo
@Lil Agin
Chill
Do Video on Star Fighter
His voice reminds me of Owen Wilson
F-86 baby!
And his appearance is that of a Doonsberry character.
They looked so similar coz the one with stripes was a copy of the other one, so had to have those similarities
Its intresting that from WW11 with Spitfires and Messeshmit 109s
Then Mig and Sabres both similar
Nice video.. Gotta love the F86..!!
If this guy says "this guy, and how cool is that" one more time....
He is really good.
Everything is cool for this guy.
And where is the Swedish jet the "Tunnan" or the Barrel?
I like his catching phrase “how cool is that “. So please do carry on the other show.
The 86's radar was the biggest factor.
It’s funny how we got that MIG it came from a Korean defector
Russian piloted Mig 15s blasted them out of the sky, one night the Allied air loss was so heavy that they named it black day lol.
The RR engine is pronounced NEEEEN or Knee with an "n" on the end, It's part of the river series and that is still going with the Trent.
Nay-Nay sounds like the response you give when someone says NaNu-NaNu to you
went from Air over the Rockies to the museum of flight come back bro
I love how much he sounds like Owen Wilson
North American had a knack for building beautiful planes. F-86 could win on looks alone. But it had the chops too.
This guy is like a close copy of owen wilson lol. So chill
The chillest.
Sabre dance, baby!
RR Engine Nene is pronounced "Neen" RR Jet engines were named after rivers, other examples that spring to mind are the Avon, Dart (Turboprop), Derwent and Trent
I'll never forgive the Brits for giving the RR jet engine technology to the commies.
@@johna.4334 A particularly short sighted and unbelievably stupid move by RR for short term gain. As I recall the government of the day initially blocked the export then relented. That said the Russians would have got it anyway one way or another, once a technology exists it's inevitable that the other side will access it by hook or by crook.
I’ll never forgive his American mispronunciation. 😅
Why are there no gun openings on the F-86, and why is it that whatever is covering the openings looks cracked and makeshift?
Man I envy your job
Keep up the good work :D
Wing fins on MiG reasoning sounds BS but I may be wrong
How cool is this? :-D
You missed a little bit of interesting (and facepalming) information on the Russians getting the Nene. Aside from little things like having shoes with special soles when they were given a tour of the plant that made them (picking up metal shavings for material analysis,) the British had them promise they'd only use the engines for civil use. To which the Russians, of course, went "Da, da, of course, we promise!" ... and promptly shoved it in fighter aircraft.
Pilot quality first.
2nd was the shower of six 50cals.;
yet ironically, it was Stalin who said:
‘Quantity has a quality all its own’.
Thanks
Is this mig the Chinese version or was it exported to China? I only asked because it says “safety first, check the intake” in Chinese.
Most likely exported, AFAIR China produced locally only two-seaters (JJ-2) Migs before starting production of Mig-17 (J-5)
@@kon27027 thanks for the information, I never knew there was a two seater version, thank you for sharing!
I think the F-86 represents everything that American aviation can be. Plus it’s a sexy looking ride.
Can Matthew say "Alright, Alright, Alright!"?
How did the museum get a mig? Did the soviets start to sell them after they became obsolete?
I dont much about that but it could be fake replicas
@@frankren515 not gonna lie, that would be a biy of a let down. Soviets and the other tens of countries that used mig15s probably dont keep too many secrets abt its design tho
that specific MiG was operated by PLAAF, which mean that it's either captured during Korean War or purchased in the 80's
Kurt Tank went on to produce swept wing jets for other countries
Today, Russian and American historians such as Cookie Sewall and Diego Zampinni admit that
on 10/01/1955, not 10/08, there was the first kill of a jet by another jet. An F-80 Shooting Star patrol engaged three MiG-15s and veteran First Lieutenant Semyon Fyodorovich Khominich spotted 10 F-80F aircraft. Khomonich turned left, leaving the sun behind in combat formation. As a result of their attack, an F-80 was shot down. He opened fire at 800 meters, and stopped firing at less than 200 meters. Coming out of his attack, the lieutenant struggled to gain altitude. Major Bordun with the rest of the team attacked four F-80s that were trying to attack Khominich. The Americans went to the others without success, and finally abandoned the fight..."
"...The Russian-built fighter was flown by five Air Force pilots. The F-86A-5 Saber underperformed when compared to the MIG-15. However, the superior training and tactics of the US pilots established a "kill ratio" better than 8:1 over MIG.
[ kill-ratio also fixed: 1.3 to 1 ]
(Photo: National Archives and Records Administration)
*www.aviation-history.com/mikoyan/mig15.html*
HIPPIES LIVE!!!
That was the first time that jacket was ever worn
Bf109 vs Spitfires vs P51s
Subscribed, just because he is like the Snoop Dogg of curators. 😅
F86 is a hero plane of 1965 war in between India and Pakistan, Pakistani pilot M.M. Alam made world record in 1965 by F86
The British when Mig-15s start harassing the Americans over Korea: *get NENE'd*