This quote that was published from Joseph says it all for me. He was either honest or a liar. “Why are you using my name to carry on your hellish wickedness? Have I ever taught you that fornication and adultery was right, or polygamy or any such practices? Times and Seasons 3 [August 1, 1842]
Exactly. About 5 years ago I struggled with it and it took a LOT of praying before getting relief but ended up knowing that the church is true and also that polygamy is wrong. Worth the “wrestle”.
Praying for an answer and getting that answer to the prayer is always going to be better than a secular answer also. Although sometimes the secular dialogues can help stimulate people to want to pray about something.
People pray all the time and get the answer that JS was a pedo and are so many are leaving the church over this. I think we need to actually study the facts and documents to gain our answer. As I’m doing that I’m getting loud and clear that JS was not a polygamist but was betrayed by his friends. Just like Jesus
I was given the rough stone rolling book by my “liberal” boss (whom I loved) at the BYU bookstore (when it used to be a bookstore). I also met the editor of the book- don’t remember his name- when he came through my register line at Borders bookstore. He was pretty proud of it- that guy. Anyway- it took me a few years to finally read it. My feelings are exactly the same as you brother Palmer. It made me feel icky and something inside me- rejected it- or parts of it- idk- my discernment was kicking in and I did not feel uplifted or good about it.
Awesome video!!! Your eyes are being opened and I hope you continue with your studying this issue because it is so important in these latter days to know the truth!
Alright, brother Palmer, you have done another great teaching video. I love it . I have never read Rough Stone Rolling , so thank you again . I will not waste my time doing so .
I’m 57. Was baptized at 8 and served a mission. My beliefs totally mirror yours. Love the way you broke it down. I thought I was going crazy a few years back. I’ll go down swinging with you!
Spirit confirmed to me that he did institute eternal marriage and multiple women. So one of us in under a false spirit. Let me quote Joseph on that, "Nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit, when they think they have the Spirit of God" There's actually according to some Jewish scholars evidence that Jesus could have been a polygamist. Can you image if that evidence came out? People would ... lose... their... minds!
Agreed Kimberly. Polygamy only brings hurt and misery. The gospel fruits bring joy. When the other people seek for truth and not just to “be right” they will find what you have. I did not until a few years ago. The spiritual witness was incredible!
@@Freedom0rBust Jacob 2:31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
@@Freedom0rBust yep one of us is wrong. I’ll go one step further and say Heavenly Father has only one wife. One day we will all know, and you’re right one of us is wrong.
Scott. Thank you so much. I’ve also like others always believed it because of the false traditions of the fathers but lately been studying this a lot and I am loving this new view. I also enjoy “Still Mormon” and his research. As well as Gwendolyn Wynne and Michelle Stone. You are just another witness as I feel the spirit as you speak. Here now two things you have helped me work out in my mind. This and the jab/mask issue. Thank you again so much. You and Sue Rock. Bless you for speaking out on truth. 💚💚💚
Thanks so much Bro Palmer! I love listening to all your videos. Isn’t it funny how when we proclaim truth it AGITATES the opposing forces so deeply!? So when you proclaim truth specifically about The Prophet Joseph… the adversary hates that. It’s one of his (satans) greatest tools to turn people into apostasy- providing a way for them to lose their testimony of the restored gospel. Keep going! You have mass amounts of support behind you! Both heavenly and earthly!❤
I have been taught that JS was not a polygamist since childhood but the church’s current stance is that he did practice polygamy. What are we to believe?
I was taught that he was. Lots of confusion. Do you believe that President Nelson is a prophet? Because if you do, you believe what the church says today. Also, the prophet today has 2 wives.
Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts and experience. Thank you for defending Christ, Joseph, and God's daughters, whom God has declared he loves enough to command monogamy and faithfulness in marriage.
I'm a convert to the church, my family and I joined in Anchorage, Alaska in 1975. My wife is from Cuba. She joined shortly after coming to this country on the freedom flights to Miami. I remember the Joseph Smith testimony pamphlet and how it influenced me to read the Book of Mormon. Also, my good Bishop in Hilo, Hawaii at the time. After reading the Book of Mormon, And spending many hours on my knees to know of its truthfulness, And that his prophet, Joseph Smith, translated it... It has carried me to this point, over these years and I can't forget the feeling I received when it was confirmed true. This is what I know. Thank you for your channel and for your hard work, Brother Palmer.
Mahalo Brother Palmer for your outstanding insights (wisdom and knowledge) on the subject matter. I too was taught in the same wisdom and knowledge about Joseph Smith and polygamy. But after the publication of Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman. Many members became more and more devoted (believing in the words of Bushman as opposed to Joseph Smith) to promoting the importance of polygamy. Also, you are courageous for defending the prophet Joseph Smith and standing for the truth. God bless you and sister Palmer for teaching topics that are being challenged in the last days.
Best wishes Brian for your comment. I guess you could say at the end of the day we will let our Savior be the final judge of our actions. Have a lovely day.🙏🏽
So….I was sealed to my former husband. He was abusive and was unfaithful. After divorce, He married his last affair. I broke my sealing to him. He baptized and was sealed to his new wife! I did not understand the importance then, of keeping my sealing. Soooo now what?? 😢
The church addresses this question in the Gospel Topics and Questions section of the church website under the topic of Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo.
@@watcherpalmerlds false doctrine causes weak foundations. You have decades of experience and foundational knowledge and principles. Most do not, and this doctrine is already being used to sow dissent among the church. I’ve studied the current affairs on this topic for a few days now. They are using it to draw people away from the temple and from the priesthood keys. I predicted this months ago when I first saw it making the rounds on your channel and other channels. And now I’m seeing it. Go look brother, they are attacking the temple and the keys. Michelle Stone is not the hill to die on.
@@watcherpalmerldsI replied but now it is gone. All I’ll say is mark my words, this topic is already being used to sow dissent in the church in a real way. Michelle Stone is not the hill to have a last stand on.
@@gavroshtheswift9959 I believed Joseph did not preach or practice polygamy long before I ever heard of Sister Stone, but I am impressed with her research.
My sister did extensive research of Joseph Smith and found that although Joseph was sealed to many women, he only had children with Emma. This leads me to believe that Joseph did not have marital relations with any of the other women he was sealed to. He loved Emma and was very devoted to her.
@@jaredshipp9207I disagree. Men were also sealed to Joseph. He was sealing the people of this dispensation into one family. Brigham Young had an affair on his mission and was named in a divorce suit. He also went to polygamous groups in the east. Most people don't realize polygamy was being practiced outside of our church, long before Brigham and Bennett began practicing it. I don't think he built on what Joseph introduced. Joseph fought against and lost his life because he fought it. He was hauled into court and found not guilty of polygamy.
Joseph Smith didn't lose his life from polygamy. He lost it because the powers of darkness have always tried to stop the true church from rolling forward. Consider the following (and use the spirit to be your guide); 1st Nephi 13:5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity. D&C 76:29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about. There are other verses that spell out a similar scenario... like in Daniel the king and the wicked tried to kill Daniel, and throw his friends into a fiery furnace. Every dispensation it is always the same. The battle of good and evil. The war for the souls of men.
Bless you brother. What relevance does this have to do with "my" personal salvation. I should be focused on my personal journey. The internet talking drive me crazy. This Friday I get the privilege and honor to take my bride to the temple to be sealed. My first wife passed away 10 years ago and it has been a wonderful spiritual journey of understanding. It is my duty to earn my brides.
Thank you Brother Palmer! I have studied this for years and believe that Joseph never practiced polygamy. Our eyes are being opened to clear Joseph’s name and we are being prepared. I am grateful for this knowledge because it has strengthened my testimony of the restored gospel. I appreciate you for standing up and saying something! I love your videos. I have watched all of Michelle Stones videos and she has a deep scriptural knowledge. Her earlier videos about the scriptures and polygamy are amazing and very in depth. Thanks for all you do!
If you read on the church’s website about polygamy, it says Joseph practiced this. Why would the brethren keep that on the official website if it weren’t true? Believe me, I detest the whole thought of polygamy, but when it’s stated officially….. what then?
As a long standing church member who is a few years older than you, I totally agree with your belief on this subject. I have even done my own research over the years which has further confirmed this for me....
More and more lately Ive been seeing a slow cure in peoples stance on plural marriage begin to firm up one way or the other. God AND the adversary are moving on the people, and who we choose to listen to influences the direction of our thoughts to conclude opinions. Aside from plural marriage, we do know that the middle ground is being removed in living the Gosple, where things are going to come out or happen or be commanded. Whenever those things happen, I imagine they'll be contested in one way or another. Theyll likely be hot topics at the time.
Brigham Young also married several women during Joseph's lifetime. Joseph excommunicated John Bennett but not Brigham or Heber. In Utah Eliza R Snow begin calling herself Eliiz R Snow Smith.
As a woman who is technically sealed to a dirtbag, this is exactly how it was explained to me, as the Sealer said to you. My covenant is intact because I did not break it. Once I'm ready to be sealed to another man, only then will the cancellation happen so I can have an eternal marriage with another. In the meantime, I retain all the rights and blessings of that covenant irregardless of what he did or does.
Thank you Bro Palmer!!!! I too will defend Christ and Brother Joseph with my last breath…even against other saints if necessary. “You guys broke into the wrong rec room…”. Hahahahaha! Let’s play ball!!🏀 ❤
Watcher, thanks for keeping the Faith and always pushing to promote the Kingdom. Keep up the good work and I look forward to hearing more from you on this topic. All this is new to me and I want to study this out more.
Thank you Brother Palmer, I feel just like you, as a teenager I got thinking about polygamy and thinking how horrible it was to me, and I always thought that there would be more people joining the church if it wasn’t this black mark in our history of polygamy. But now. It keeps coming up all over and some people say Joseph Smith was a polygamist, but in my heart I just couldn’t believe this of Joseph Smith, because I love him so much and don’t believe he would do this. Also our Heavenly Father loves women and he loves chastity and the pureness of women, and I don’t think Heavenly Father would ask our prophet to do this. Also all over in the Book of Mormon, especially from Jacob that there would be one man and one woman married to each other and no concubines. I know you are a very good man and I have been so troubled about this and prayed about it so much and this to me is like putting a square peg in a round hole, and I’m so happy how you feel, and I feel peace in my heart too, so once again thank you, and thank you for all you do ❤
I, too, have come to the same conclusion through research and through the Holy Spirit! Sooo nice to not be alone in this. Sooo many of us waking up to defend Joseph and Emma and Hyrum.👏🏼💕
I remember my grandmother who knew and was friends with Many general authority and was a niece to President Taylor who knew Joseph personally said Joseph Never practiced polygamy. Many women had themselves sealed to him. After death . It was a practiced with the thought that celestial glory only can only be gained by being married to worthy man.
Silly where did Jesus teach that? The Book of Mormon teaches prophets who have thevseaking power seal up the heavens so it doesn't rain and causes drought and other problems not about marriage at all.
Because if Brigham Young made up polygamy and pretended Joseph taught it that insinuates that Brigham was a grossly deceptive man, not a prophet of God. I get prophets can make mistakes, but not at this level.
Thank you for your broadcasts. I agree with you on the jab, the mask, and Joseph Smith history related to polygamy. Part of the reason, but not the sole reason, for these issues today is that many members do not understand the differences between practices, policies, doctrines and principles. In addition, we do not have the 'accurate, unbiased, complete and comprehensive' history of the events in the early days of this, the last dispensation. Such lack of knowledge leads to speculation, extrapolation and varied interpretations of these issues. In some cases a lack of knowledge can hinder correct personal revelation about a certain issue, thus 'shelving' the issue for a period of time is healthy. Sitting on the sidelines and observing the exchange of ideas, strengthens my conviction to focus on Jesus Christ, His Atonement, my preparation for his second coming and striving to becoming more like Jesus Christ. Thanks again for your faith and conviction.
I am having problems following why all the problems with the polygamy issue. It is not an issue to me because I look at it as, I was not there, I will never have all the information needed to make a judgement. Therefore not my problem. Not my pig not my farm.
@wheels636 To be fair, Joseph practicing polygamy with girls as young as 14 and other married men's wives was once considered "Anti". Now, the church accepts it as truth. I was told by an investigator on my mission in 1980 about Joseph's polygamy. I asked my mission president if that was true. He said it was Anti and from Satan and to never talk to that investigator again.
@@wheels636 Joseph did not practice polygamy but was excommunication people for it. Joseph denounced it publically and in all conversations except those he had with Brigham Young if you were to believe Brigham.
Scott , it is amazing to me that you had enough discernment to know Joseph never did polygamy! I always assumed he did. But I have researched it a lot over the past few years, and I now totally agree he fought it and hated it. He always called it adultery and abomination. So did Hyrum and Emma.
@opalmalare4986 Not at all. That's exactly why I know Joseph had nothing to do with polygamy. I used to completely believe polygamy was of God and initiated in the church by Joseph. A deep dive into the scriptures, particularly the BofM and the full JST, convinced me polygamy was never of God. Then a deep dive into the original sources regarding church history convinced me Joseph fought it until the day he died and only ever called it adultery and an abomination.
@@DavidN831 I am not concerned about whether Joseph participated in polygamy or not. I know he is the prophet of this dispensation. Whether he did or not is not going to affect my testimony of him or this gospel. The truth will be made known sometime.
I do not believe that Joseph had marital relations with anyone other than Emma, and anyone who suggests otherwise does so without evidence and wholly set on bias and speculation. Joseph lived what he preached.
@Thehaystack7999 I think you are right about that. They sealed them to be with him in the next life. And he wasn't with them in the mortal state we're in now. Also this seems to be the most logical way he would have done it. There's no stories of him living with anyone except Emma also. They love to try to make you think otherwise though and get pretty creative with their lies though re: antis etc. I'd read everything in the church growing up. I'd read the history of the church. There were never any accounts of Joseph Smith living with anyone except Emma.
@@noahriding5780 that’s right. And the abundantly fertile Joseph never had children with anyone else, and there is simply no evidence of marital relations at all. It certainly would not hold up in court, nor should Saints enforce rumors that the Prophet Joseph Smith would be some sort of womanizer.
I think it was The Stick Of Joseph channel that had a guy on there that did extensive research. He said Joseph married some women who were already pregnant. This way he could have children born under the covenant thereby bypassing the sex part of it.
Bro Palmer I remember that stake conference with Richard G Scott it was AMAZING! 2 other stories from that conference always stuck with me! 1) as a EQ secretary i went to the leadership meeting he held where he said he didn’t want to hear about any more EQ activities to move peoples things in and out of new homes because our activity levels were so low he wanted to only focus on gather in back the inactives… 2) in the adult session he had a Q&A and one man asked Scott the best way to teach his newly returned missionary son that he is too young to get married and that he should get education and a job before marriage and the whole room was silent thinking “why would he ask that?”! Scott was my favorite for a while after that year!
Our souls often recognize truth immediately. I never felt Joseph smith was a ‘true polygamist’….i also remember reading section 132 of D&C over a decade ago and feeling very strongly that it was NOT of God. I never knew exactly what to make of it….but I felt at peace just knowing for myself. I also remember reading the ‘official statement’ from the church about the vaccinne…& knew it was not of God. It wasn’t a factual statement. I’ve learned to think of the ‘corporation’ church and the gospel as two different things.
I’ve been through a majority of podcasts, books, papers that speak for and against Jospeh Smith participating in polygamy. My heart has always told me from a young age that it is wrong. The scriptures repeatedly state it is an abomination and there is clear evidence Jospeh Smith taught against it all his days. People will say things like, “Why are we even talking about this now?” or “Why cause contention about something we no longer live?” I have several reasons: 1. We are taught to seek truth in all things. We have not been taught to put anything on the shelf. That is an idea pushed by man to keep people from questioning and convincing them they are too immature or young to understand the doctrine. 2. This is still being taught as current doctrine and supposedly lived in the eternities 3. God is not the author of confusion. Everything surrounding polygamy is steeped in confusion 4. I will not pretend to be okay with the idea that I don’t have to choose to live polygamy in the next life while so many women have been forced to live it in this life or may have to live it in the next. That is lacking empathy for others while being relieved I have the ability to choose and others did not. (We are not being honest with ourselves if we say the women in the early days of the church had the choice. Especially if we continue to parrot the narrative that Joseph married women behind Emma’s back. Where was Emma’s agency in those accounts?) 5. The timeline does not add up. Too many incorrect dates, late testimonies, hidden secrets. As a prophet, Joseph was open and honest and spoke openly of his human frailties. This is the only thing we try to claim he had to keep hidden or speak “carefully worded denials.” Why? Why are our testimonies so weak that we feel to address these inconsistencies head on would lead to apostasy or losing faith? In all my studies, my faith has actually been strengthened to see that God is consistent, that he chose an honest man and woman to lead in the restoration of His gospel, and the BoM is very clear on what is truth and what is not. If there is confusion or inconsistencies in anything we are taught in this life, we should be brave enough to face the situation and seek truth. If what we are taught holds up and the Spirit speaks truth to your heart, then continue on. But if not, it’s okay to seek further light and knowledge, trusting God is in charge. God’s plan is perfectly balanced and his love for his sons and daughters is perfectly matched. Polygamy does not create balance nor does it create equality between all men and women. It is anything but these two things. This is a novel, but it encapsulates many of the thoughts I’ve had as I watch people try to defend confusion, deception, discrepancies, and ideas, that no matter how hard a person tries, just don’t sit right with the plan of happiness. I admire you for speaking up about this Bro. Palmer and hope that others will do so as well as they take the time to challenge the narrative we’ve been taught. Truth will prevail as hearts are opened to the truth that Joseph, Emma, and Hyrum consistently taught during their lives.
Yup!!! Can we even have real faith in God, if we believe false things (polygamy) about him??? Alma 32 “21 And now as I said concerning faith-faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, WHICH ARE TRUE.”
I believe Joseph. He and Emma ALWAYS denounced plural marriage. I think he was attempting to reveal sealing and lesser men, first his friends, were deceived then betrayed him. I believe these men were the liars, not Joseph
@@exempt8312 Now do a little research and learn the truth. They loved each other and were devoted to each other and followed the commands of God to have only one man with one wife. Read Jacob 2&3 to learn the truth about polygamy.
@@exempt8312 this is just slander from Brigham Young. His words directly oppose the tender words exchanged between Joseph and Emma in their letters, as well as what their children testified of, as concerned their relationship.
@@andreab7246 Sure, that's why Emma Hale Smith Bidamon left the church her husband restored under Christ. She apostatized from the church her husband was dedicated to, more so dedicated to than to his wife, Emma. Her burden was massive, but she failed the test. I have no idea what Brigham said about Emma. I didn't base my comment on what Brigham said or didn't say. I based it on Emma's actions- apostacy.
I stand with Joseph and Hyrum... and with Jesus Christ. Let the chips fall where they may. Great scriptures... powerful Moroni! We are fast running out of time to be concerned with anything less than our eternal salvation and exaltation. Those who lose everything for standing with the Lord shall receive an hundredfold!!!
I am so glad I listened to this entire video! I got home late last night from work and saw your video, started to listen and immediately turned it off cause I knew my brain could not handle it. I have to admit that I also turned it off because I presupposed that my brain and beliefs were going to be challenged. This morning, after a good nights sleep I sat down and listened to the entire episode! I am so glad because I realized two things. First is that I have never believed that Joseph Smith ever lived in a polygamous relationship. However I do believe that there is documented evidence that he was sealed to many other people. I say people because I am not totally sure that there were no men in those sealings because I think at that time there were lots of sealing many people together into the family of God. Again I never believed that JS practiced polygamy. Now this brings me to the second point. I also have never believed that practicing polygamy disqualified Brigham Young as the Lord’s anointed prophet or that this caused him to be a “fallen prophet”. Nor do I believe that practicing polygamy by other leaders disqualified them from being called and anointed of God to lead. Just as I do not believe that banning blacks from the priesthood and temple ordinances disqualified Brigham as the Lord’s anointed prophet. I think that the problem I have had is that there are those who believe it is either or. One or the other so that if you believe JS practiced polygamy then certainly BY was just following in JS path. But if you believe that JS did not practice polygamy then automatically BY is a fallen prophet because he did! I could never reconcile either of those in my head and heart because I always believed that JS did not practice polygamy and firmly believed the BY was the Lord’s anointed prophet and was directed to do things by the Lord and I was not in the room nor was I privy to those conversations! Do I believe that JS or BY were perfect and therefore infallible? No of course not! But womanizers or child molesters? Preposterous! Again, thank you for helping me really validate what I have always believed but could not completely express!
@@g71816 I will say that I don’t believe it was wicked. I will also say that I really believe it is not law or standard of the celestial kingdom but an exception. I also really don’t fret over it because I have a firm testimony of the Doctrine of Christ as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I am focused on His second coming and not on getting caught up in going down rabbit holes. Thank you for allowing me to clarify!
Concerning the sealing ordinance, my wife is sealed to her deceased husband and this is my first marriage. I know we can be sealed after we both die. Do you have any thoughts about why we can’t be sealed while still living? And what happens in the next life where a woman is sealed to more than one man?
I’m absolutely aligned with you on Joseph Smith and the j@b. We joined the church in 1967. Everything I’ve heard from the pulpit, read and learned since then has testified of these same opinions you have about Joseph. Since David O McKay, and the many gospel scholars who led the church testified of these things. Keep up the great work.
For the last 50 years as an adult, I have been aware that Joseph Smith was sealed to several if not many woman. Recent research has shown no children descendants except from Emma. I am totally satisfied with both of those realities. It doesn't degrade my image of Joseph, but strengthens it.
He was never sealed to anyone else in HIS lifetime. Those all came as proxy sealings after the fact. Joseph loved his one and true wife. ❤️ He's a great example to us all.
Right on brother. Your countenance doth shine. Thank you for sharing. Joseph Smith Jr. Saw God and Joseph Smith Sr. believed in what he said. Never were there two greater sceptics and they found truth from the source of all truth. Because of their faith in goodness, all human kind now have access to the gospel and direct revelation. This is just phenomenal and simple truth. Joseph Smith is was and will always be good.
I'm afraid if I make a comment, I'll get my head bitten off by some of your new "followers"! 😆 I admire you for doing this channel and taking a stand. Sometimes people say it's the Lord's will when bad things happen. I don't think that is necessarily true. But I do think that he will make all things right again. I think the same is true when we make mistakes. We might not be able to sort through the rubble, but I have hope that through him, everything will be made right.
Loved the video, Scott. For a long time, I assumed Joseph practiced it until you started talking about it. Never knew there was any question, So, I decided to put this church topic to the ChatGPT (AI) test, as I have be doing this with a lot of things, from conspiracies to politics, and got some interesting answers. In case your listeners have never used ChatGPT, it is not always accurate and if you know enough about the given subject, and push back, it will begin to change its tone. Inevitably the first response is the "official narrative" on any subject, but if you push back, it will concede some ground. It is very interesting. On the subject of Joseph Smith and polygamy, I asked if all these allegations were true, would not there be some children from these relationships. I think there was only one person who claimed she was told by her mother that Joseph was her father, but after some DNA testing (I don't know where they got the DNA), it was proven she was not the daughter of Joseph. Interesting, to say the least.
Thanks for the perspective! The D&C 132 was very compelling! For me, the Prophet Joseph Smith was and is a pure vessel from the Lord. Brigham Young was a prophet of God and was worthy of that calling. I am more at ease that that Joseph NOT practicing plural marriage and I am OK that Brigham Young did. He was the Lion of the Lord, not a Sheik with a harem. Easy peasy.
To me the Jews are now beating their plows into swords and standing strong. I've watched them since 1948 and heard and read the miracles attending them as they have become strong warriors. I've heard discussions from Dr Heiser that Ezekiel 38 and 39 are the same as Revelation 19. They sound more like Zachariah 9 at this point. I joined the Church because of the Book of Mormon. I'd been a religion minor in college and studied the real history of the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls. I knew it was scripture. Joseph Smith's vision was icing on the cake of what I already believed. I am astounded that people don't realize what's headed our way. I can't imagine they don't know in who we should really be keeping our eyes and heart on. Our Savior, Jesus Christ is on His way and we will see phenomenon that will convince many the man of lawlessness is our Savior because they won't know the diffence. Joseph Smith can handle himself. I know many brave men of God who have given everything to follow Christ. Jesus Christ is our Creator, Savior, the reason the Universe exists. He's the one I'll live and die for. He's the one I'm trying to learn as much as I can about. Many good men are teaching and preaching His return that are not members of a special church. I've learned a lot of good and bad things as a member of thus one. I regret none of it. Bit it hasn't imprisoned me . Good for you standing strong!!
Honestly Brother Palmer, I have been watching your channel for a long time now and I have noticed a change in your demeanor. I have come to a point where I don't feel the spirit when I watch your channel anymore. This isn't anything against you or your channel. I came here to feed upon the spirit. There are enough channels that talk about and debate church history. I love the gospel of Jesus Christ. I wish you the best. You and your family are in my prayers always.
Sorry to hear that, amigo. But I've got to say that I always felt and continue to feel a wonderful and strong spirit of faith, dedication, love, discipleship, and just plain Christian goodness from Brother Palmer each video.
It's interesting in my mind. The same people that think you would go into apostasy. Are the same people that Revere Spencer Cox, Mit Romney, as a good members of the church.😅
Oh man…I think the opposite. I cannot stand Romney and definitely think that the anti polygamy movement in the church will sift a lot of people out of the church.
Bravo! Spot on! Thank you for posting this. What a confusing time to be alive! I just turned 69 and can hardly believe all the changes lately! It keeps us on our toes, so not complaining...
Been studying my scriptures. When I listen to conference and also the talks I was thinking about how we should be supporting the leadership and then I thought of Lehi. Who was the prophet of his time? The spirit directed him along with others to leave different areas at different times and there was a prophet at that time, a prophet of his people. So I find interesting that President Nelson said to stay close to our Savior and listen to the promptings of the spirit, the Holy Ghost. We really should all of us have these promptings that Lehi had. I’m sure he was listening to the prophet of that time and he was a very righteous man to have those dreams and direction at that time. Think of the faith he had to have had. Amazing. What an incredible journey for all of us ahead. These are indeed exciting times.
What happened with the angel that came to him with a sword or is all that hearsay. What about Eliza Snow that was sealed to him. That Brigham took care of?? Another rumour?
I have a hard time believing that angel with sword story , the angel coming to him 3 times , and telling Joseph on the third time, he will kill Joseph if he doesn’t obey … where was Joseph’s agency ? If that story is true … it’s sooo goes against agency ! IMHO of course .
@@MaGiMo62agreed. That story sounds like something Brigham would say. Obey or be destroyed is in most of his statements. Not trying to say he wasn’t a prophet (because I know all the people will attack me here saying ‘he’s attacking Brigham’”, but it truly does seem more like a story he would say. Joseph rarely spoke like that and never had revelations like that other than this one and dc132.
I love the Prophet Joseph the best blood 🩸 that ever lived ! He is very sacred ground - I agree w/ u some seem not to realize who The Prophet Joseph really was & is!
I would go to family reunions and be asked what wife I descended from. As a kid I found it weird and I was told polygammy was practiced in Utah because there were more women than men and it was how they dealt with it. So it was taught to me as a desperate survival necessity. Some members said it was to restore all things because Abraham practiced polygamy. Church leaders like Gordon B Hinckley would get off the topic quick and just say it was in the past but we are looking forward. With the internet I think the church just needs to be honest. You are always better off in the long run telling the truth even if some people have a hard time with it. I think there’s a lot of grey area in the late Nauvoo period due to all the infighting and back biting. I’ve just gotten to the point of thinking nobody knows for sure what was going on. I pretty much grew up in the post David O McKay church. The days of road shows, scouting, gold and green balls, ward sports teams, ward camp outs and for the most part, people were proud of their pioneer heritage. It was good times. Glad I experienced them
It has never been church doctrine. There is NO declaration for it, only against (and several of them, not all are listed in the Doctrine and Covenants). Whenever a declaration has been made on marriage it has always been pro-monogamy, including the Proclamation on the Family and the Clause on Marriage in the original D&C, as well as the law of the Lord found in D&C 42 stating a man cleave to his wife and NONE else.
"You're leading people to apostasy" is an attempt at emotional manipulation. It only works on people who are not close to the Spirit. They won't "search, ponder and pray". If they find Joseph told the truth, then they have to adjust their perspective of their family history. It also creates a problem for those currently living the lifestyle and using Joseph as their excuse.
I do believe Joseph, and my gggg aunt who is one of his wives. I don’t know how all of this will shake out eternally, but JS our first prophet of this dispensation was a polygamist as is our current prophet.
@@rebeccabaca2909 How many children did your gggg have with Joseph? What was her name? In the official church lesson manual "Teachings of Presidents of the Church - Joseph Smith" has the the date of his marriage to Emma. There is no mention of any other marriages to other women or their names.
Scanning over these comments makes me laugh at myself from back in my days when I stressed over this topic. We can get answers from God instead of fighting over it on social media. This is such a non issue for me finally. I used to really wrestle with this when I was younger. So glad I have peace about it now. I don’t have answers but don’t have questions anymore, either. I love Joseph Smith and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. It was a good seed and grew into something amazing.
To be honest. The church is responsible for the polygamy controversy. I was taught that it was Brigham Young that practiced polygamy. All the reasons as you stated. More women then men, only a few called to practice it. Etc. Even the modern manual (2000's) "Teachings of the President's of the church". Joseph Smith had but one wife, Emma. It wasn't until the church caught between a rock and hard spot, forced to be more transparent. Started teaching "the truth" Joseph was a polygamist. If anyone needs to apologize, it would be the church. That, as we know, will not happen.
I’m a faithful member of the church and I agree with this. More transparency and accountability with these sensitive issues will keep members in the church. Obfuscation and blaming the messengers will drive more people out.
In the beginning Adam was only given one wife, Eve. If polygamy was required for the highest degree of glory, wouldn't it have been set up that way from the beginning? Absolutely we choose who we want to be sealed to on the other side...amen!
Scott, I am right there with you👍 My faith is in Christ, I believe the priesthood has been restored through Joseph, the Book of Mormon is the word of God. I will continue to stand & take the sacrament. God is Good, Jesus is the Christ ❤🙏
Probably the same reason the temple ban lasted so many years. The Lord did make it right. Both problems were taken care of. I think they are concerned of the fragile “testimonies” of many saints. President Nelson still has the borrowed keys from Joseph.
@@BrianTerrill No, none of them said that God could command his people to practice polygamy. God calls polygamy a crime, a whoredom and an abomination. Doesn't sound like anything He would command anyone to do. I can't find any instance when He commanded anyone to practice polygamy.
@@BrianTerrill BrianTerril, if you've seen the movie, Princess Bride, you have heard the perfect response to your comment above: "I don't think that word [phrase] means what you think it means"
Years ago when I prayed about whether polygamy was of God, I received the very clear prompting to read what Joseph Smith said about it. Everything published by the church seemed to indicate that Joseph received it by revelation. A few years ago, thanks to the Joseph Smith Papers Project, I could finally read the original journals and meeting notes written during JS’s lifetime. I was shocked that every such document actually condemned the practice in every form! Brigham Young over saw the “revision” of Joseph’s writings which altered them all to say exactly the opposite of what Joseph said and taught! I’m still reeling from this discovery and pleading with God to teach me how to navigate because it turns out that BY “revised”, changed, and added a ton of crap that was not from Joseph or God. Thankfully, the LDS church has disavowed much of it like blood atonement, and priesthood ban for blacks, but there is MORE. Ugh. Well, I guess that God warned us that He would cleanse “his house” first. I’m choosing to look to God and trust that he will guide us through this messy time.
Thank you! Hallelujah! Loved when you said that those who speak of Joseph Smith as a polygamist sneaking around behind Emma are speaking evil of the Lords anointed. This hit me hard! I have recently been following Michelle Stone and love her work. Next, have you watched Who Killed Joseph Smith? Fascinated by your wisdom. Thank you for making these videos!
My friend served as your AP in your mission, thanks for defending the truth as you know it! wish I could have served under you
This quote that was published from Joseph says it all for me. He was either honest or a liar. “Why are you using my name to carry on your hellish wickedness? Have I ever taught you that fornication and adultery was right, or polygamy or any such practices? Times and Seasons 3 [August 1, 1842]
Amen Bro Palmer!!!!👏👏👏
I agree with everything you presented here. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for standing for Joseph!
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God bless you for standing up for Brother Joseph. Crazy days!
Go Brother Palmer. I’m with you 100% on this.
All people need to do is pray about this to find the truth♥️
Just a way to mar our Prophet Joseph
Exactly. About 5 years ago I struggled with it and it took a LOT of praying before getting relief but ended up knowing that the church is true and also that polygamy is wrong. Worth the “wrestle”.
Praying for an answer and getting that answer to the prayer is always going to be better than a secular answer also. Although sometimes the secular dialogues can help stimulate people to want to pray about something.
People pray all the time and get the answer that JS was a pedo and are so many are leaving the church over this. I think we need to actually study the facts and documents to gain our answer. As I’m doing that I’m getting loud and clear that JS was not a polygamist but was betrayed by his friends. Just like Jesus
@@jenseager4595I agree it took me 3 years of study, fasting and prayer. Joseph was betrayed, just like Jesus.
You should come to the conference by Michelle Stone's new Journal of Mormon Polygamy on March 21st! Registration opens on Wednesday morning.
I was given the rough stone rolling book by my “liberal” boss (whom I loved) at the BYU bookstore (when it used to be a bookstore). I also met the editor of the book- don’t remember his name- when he came through my register line at Borders bookstore. He was pretty proud of it- that guy. Anyway- it took me a few years to finally read it. My feelings are exactly the same as you brother Palmer. It made me feel icky and something inside me- rejected it- or parts of it- idk- my discernment was kicking in and I did not feel uplifted or good about it.
On this subject I agree with you 1000% if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything
Awesome video!!! Your eyes are being opened and I hope you continue with your studying this issue because it is so important in these latter days to know the truth!
You’re right on track ..we love and agree with you!!
You tell ‘em Palmer!
Thanks for sharing your insights from your study
I totally agree with everything you have presented here. Thank you so much
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Alright, brother Palmer, you have done another great teaching video. I love it . I have never read Rough Stone Rolling , so thank you again . I will not waste my time doing so .
I’m 57. Was baptized at 8 and served a mission. My beliefs totally mirror yours. Love the way you broke it down. I thought I was going crazy a few years back. I’ll go down swinging with you!
I’ve got your back preacher Palmer!
You are spot on!
👍😊
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My deep study and research has brought me to the same conclusion as you, confirmed by the Spirit. This was an excellent video. Thank you!
Spirit confirmed to me that he did institute eternal marriage and multiple women. So one of us in under a false spirit.
Let me quote Joseph on that,
"Nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit, when they think they have the Spirit of God"
There's actually according to some Jewish scholars evidence that Jesus could have been a polygamist.
Can you image if that evidence came out? People would ... lose... their... minds!
Agreed Kimberly. Polygamy only brings hurt and misery. The gospel fruits bring joy. When the other people seek for truth and not just to “be right” they will find what you have. I did not until a few years ago. The spiritual witness was incredible!
@@Freedom0rBust Jacob 2:31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
@@Freedom0rBust yep one of us is wrong. I’ll go one step further and say Heavenly Father has only one wife. One day we will all know, and you’re right one of us is wrong.
Thank you so much for this segment, I appreciate your insights!
Thank You Bro Palmer❣️
Scott. Thank you so much. I’ve also like others always believed it because of the false traditions of the fathers but lately been studying this a lot and I am loving this new view. I also enjoy “Still Mormon” and his research. As well as Gwendolyn Wynne and Michelle Stone. You are just another witness as I feel the spirit as you speak. Here now two things you have helped me work out in my mind. This and the jab/mask issue. Thank you again so much. You and Sue Rock. Bless you for speaking out on truth. 💚💚💚
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I think you are on point President ! Rock on !
Thanks so much Bro Palmer!
I love listening to all your videos.
Isn’t it funny how when we proclaim truth it AGITATES the opposing forces so deeply!?
So when you proclaim truth specifically about The Prophet Joseph… the adversary hates that. It’s one of his (satans) greatest tools to turn people into apostasy- providing a way for them to lose their testimony of the restored gospel.
Keep going! You have mass amounts of support behind you! Both heavenly and earthly!❤
I have been taught that JS was not a polygamist since childhood but the church’s current stance is that he did practice polygamy. What are we to believe?
I was taught that he was. Lots of confusion. Do you believe that President Nelson is a prophet? Because if you do, you believe what the church says today. Also, the prophet today has 2 wives.
What is interesting is that many on this thread believe otherwise meaning that he wasn’t a polygamist including bro. Palmer
Take it to the Lord. James 1:5-6
So are the brethren confused?
The brethren are concerned for those with weak testimonies. IMO
I laughed out loud when you quoted Tremors at the end! One of my faves! Thanks for taking the time to do these; I really love listening.
I was hoping someone would get that!
I believe Joseph, Emma, & Hyrum too. Mother of 4 daughters here.
Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts and experience. Thank you for defending Christ, Joseph, and God's daughters, whom God has declared he loves enough to command monogamy and faithfulness in marriage.
I guess God didn't love Sarah, Rachel, and all of the other polygamous righteous women.
I'm a convert to the church, my family and I joined in Anchorage, Alaska in 1975. My wife is from Cuba. She joined shortly after coming to this country on the freedom flights to Miami. I remember the Joseph Smith testimony pamphlet
and how it influenced me to read the Book of Mormon. Also, my good Bishop in Hilo, Hawaii at the time.
After reading the Book of Mormon, And spending many hours on my knees to know of its truthfulness, And that his prophet, Joseph Smith, translated it... It has carried me to this point, over these years and I can't forget the feeling I received when it was confirmed true.
This is what I know.
Thank you for your channel and for your hard work, Brother Palmer.
I swear you’ve got some interesting listeners anymore. 🤪 I agree with you 100% .
I suspect trolls trying to mar Prophet Joseph and the gospel
Mahalo Brother Palmer for your outstanding insights (wisdom and knowledge) on the subject matter.
I too was taught in the same wisdom and knowledge about Joseph Smith and polygamy. But after the publication of Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman. Many members became more and more devoted (believing in the words of Bushman as opposed to Joseph Smith) to promoting the importance of polygamy.
Also, you are courageous for defending the prophet Joseph Smith and standing for the truth.
God bless you and sister Palmer for teaching topics that are being challenged in the last days.
Best wishes Brian for your comment. I guess you could say at the end of the day we will let our Savior be the final judge of our actions.
Have a lovely day.🙏🏽
So….I was sealed to my former husband. He was abusive and was unfaithful. After divorce, He married his last affair. I broke my sealing to him. He baptized and was sealed to his new wife! I did not understand the importance then, of keeping my sealing. Soooo now what?? 😢
If you keep the covenant, the sealing to God remains.
The church addresses this question in the Gospel Topics and Questions section of the church website under the topic of Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo.
This is going to cause apostasy
Weak, no foundational conversion, causes apostasy. IMO
@@watcherpalmerlds false doctrine causes weak foundations. You have decades of experience and foundational knowledge and principles. Most do not, and this doctrine is already being used to sow dissent among the church. I’ve studied the current affairs on this topic for a few days now. They are using it to draw people away from the temple and from the priesthood keys. I predicted this months ago when I first saw it making the rounds on your channel and other channels. And now I’m seeing it. Go look brother, they are attacking the temple and the keys. Michelle Stone is not the hill to die on.
@@watcherpalmerldsI replied but now it is gone. All I’ll say is mark my words, this topic is already being used to sow dissent in the church in a real way. Michelle Stone is not the hill to have a last stand on.
@@gavroshtheswift9959 I believed Joseph did not preach or practice polygamy long before I ever heard of Sister Stone, but I am impressed with her research.
My sister did extensive research of Joseph Smith and found that although Joseph was sealed to many women, he only had children with Emma. This leads me to believe that Joseph did not have marital relations with any of the other women he was sealed to. He loved Emma and was very devoted to her.
@@jaredshipp9207great comment!
@@jaredshipp9207I disagree. Men were also sealed to Joseph. He was sealing the people of this dispensation into one family. Brigham Young had an affair on his mission and was named in a divorce suit. He also went to polygamous groups in the east. Most people don't realize polygamy was being practiced outside of our church, long before Brigham and Bennett began practicing it. I don't think he built on what Joseph introduced. Joseph fought against and lost his life because he fought it. He was hauled into court and found not guilty of polygamy.
@@reppi8742 Amen.
@@jaredshipp9207 Try reading Jacob 2&3 and get to know the scriptures. God be with you.
Joseph Smith didn't lose his life from polygamy. He lost it because the powers of darkness have always tried to stop the true church from rolling forward. Consider the following (and use the spirit to be your guide);
1st Nephi 13:5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.
D&C 76:29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
There are other verses that spell out a similar scenario... like in Daniel the king and the wicked tried to kill Daniel, and throw his friends into a fiery furnace.
Every dispensation it is always the same. The battle of good and evil. The war for the souls of men.
Bless you brother. What relevance does this have to do with "my" personal salvation. I should be focused on my personal journey. The internet talking drive me crazy. This Friday I get the privilege and honor to take my bride to the temple to be sealed. My first wife passed away 10 years ago and it has been a wonderful spiritual journey of understanding. It is my duty to earn my brides.
This is not polygamy. It is also true that a deceased woman can be sealed to more than one man.
Thank you Brother Palmer! I have studied this for years and believe that Joseph never practiced polygamy. Our eyes are being opened to clear Joseph’s name and we are being prepared. I am grateful for this knowledge because it has strengthened my testimony of the restored gospel. I appreciate you for standing up and saying something! I love your videos. I have watched all of Michelle Stones videos and she has a deep scriptural knowledge. Her earlier videos about the scriptures and polygamy are amazing and very in depth. Thanks for all you do!
If you read on the church’s website about polygamy, it says Joseph practiced this. Why would the brethren keep that on the official website if it weren’t true? Believe me, I detest the whole thought of polygamy, but when it’s stated officially….. what then?
The Lord leads seekers of truth to your channel. I am grateful to have found a kindred soul!
Amen, totally agree with you, thank you.
As a long standing church member who is a few years older than you, I totally agree with your belief on this subject. I have even done my own research over the years which has further confirmed this for me....
@@BrianTerrillWe are all entitled to our own opinions!
More and more lately Ive been seeing a slow cure in peoples stance on plural marriage begin to firm up one way or the other. God AND the adversary are moving on the people, and who we choose to listen to influences the direction of our thoughts to conclude opinions.
Aside from plural marriage, we do know that the middle ground is being removed in living the Gosple, where things are going to come out or happen or be commanded. Whenever those things happen, I imagine they'll be contested in one way or another. Theyll likely be hot topics at the time.
Brigham Young also married several women during Joseph's lifetime. Joseph excommunicated John Bennett but not Brigham or Heber. In Utah Eliza R Snow begin calling herself Eliiz R Snow Smith.
As a woman who is technically sealed to a dirtbag, this is exactly how it was explained to me, as the Sealer said to you. My covenant is intact because I did not break it. Once I'm ready to be sealed to another man, only then will the cancellation happen so I can have an eternal marriage with another. In the meantime, I retain all the rights and blessings of that covenant irregardless of what he did or does.
That genie will never get back in the bottle. Yes they are marring the name of a righteous man and they know exactly what they are doing. So be it.
Thank you Bro Palmer!!!! I too will defend Christ and Brother Joseph with my last breath…even against other saints if necessary.
“You guys broke into the wrong rec room…”. Hahahahaha! Let’s play ball!!🏀 ❤
Watcher, thanks for keeping the Faith and always pushing to promote the Kingdom. Keep up the good work and I look forward to hearing more from you on this topic. All this is new to me and I want to study this out more.
Thank you Brother Palmer, I feel just like you, as a teenager I got thinking about polygamy and thinking how horrible it was to me, and I always thought that there would be more people joining the church if it wasn’t this black mark in our history of polygamy. But now. It keeps coming up all over and some people say Joseph Smith was a polygamist, but in my heart I just couldn’t believe this of Joseph Smith, because I love him so much and don’t believe he would do this. Also our Heavenly Father loves women and he loves chastity and the pureness of women, and I don’t think Heavenly Father would ask our prophet to do this. Also all over in the Book of Mormon, especially from Jacob that there would be one man and one woman married to each other and no concubines. I know you are a very good man and I have been so troubled about this and prayed about it so much and this to me is like putting a square peg in a round hole, and I’m so happy how you feel, and I feel peace in my heart too, so once again thank you, and thank you for all you do ❤
I, too, have come to the same conclusion through research and through the Holy Spirit! Sooo nice to not be alone in this. Sooo many of us waking up to defend Joseph and Emma and Hyrum.👏🏼💕
I remember my grandmother who knew and was friends with Many general authority and was a niece to President Taylor who knew Joseph personally said Joseph Never practiced polygamy. Many women had themselves sealed to him. After death . It was a practiced with the thought that celestial glory only can only be gained by being married to worthy man.
Silly where did Jesus teach that? The Book of Mormon teaches prophets who have thevseaking power seal up the heavens so it doesn't rain and causes drought and other problems not about marriage at all.
Tell it like it is Brother Palmer!!!!!! Appreciate you so much. Stand firm..
💯💯💯 agree
RIGHT ON PALMER!!
Good points! I'm with you, I don't believe Joseph practiced polygamy, AND I still believe BY was a prophet. Why is that so hard to accept?
Because if Brigham Young made up polygamy and pretended Joseph taught it that insinuates that Brigham was a grossly deceptive man, not a prophet of God. I get prophets can make mistakes, but not at this level.
Thank you for your broadcasts. I agree with you on the jab, the mask, and Joseph Smith history related to polygamy. Part of the reason, but not the sole reason, for these issues today is that many members do not understand the differences between practices, policies, doctrines and principles. In addition, we do not have the 'accurate, unbiased, complete and comprehensive' history of the events in the early days of this, the last dispensation. Such lack of knowledge leads to speculation, extrapolation and varied interpretations of these issues. In some cases a lack of knowledge can hinder correct personal revelation about a certain issue, thus 'shelving' the issue for a period of time is healthy. Sitting on the sidelines and observing the exchange of ideas, strengthens my conviction to focus on Jesus Christ, His Atonement, my preparation for his second coming and striving to becoming more like Jesus Christ. Thanks again for your faith and conviction.
Jesus Christ should be our focus and not on polygamy or anything else.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for using discernment, as well as logic and reason, in declaring the truth that Joseph was not a polygsmist!
Amen Brother.
Bring the heat Brother Palmer! 🔥🔥🔥
When are we going to talk about BY and his “revisions” of Joseph’s writings?
I am having problems following why all the problems with the polygamy issue. It is not an issue to me because I look at it as, I was not there, I will never have all the information needed to make a judgement. Therefore not my problem. Not my pig not my farm.
I agree. They had their challenges and we have ours. It's why we follow living prophets.
If you do not care about truths than you will continually be fooled by lies
@wheels636 To be fair, Joseph practicing polygamy with girls as young as 14 and other married men's wives was once considered "Anti". Now, the church accepts it as truth. I was told by an investigator on my mission in 1980 about Joseph's polygamy. I asked my mission president if that was true. He said it was Anti and from Satan and to never talk to that investigator again.
@@wheels636 Joseph did not practice polygamy but was excommunication people for it. Joseph denounced it publically and in all conversations except those he had with Brigham Young if you were to believe Brigham.
The issue is falsely accusing Joseph Smith.
Scott , it is amazing to me that you had enough discernment to know Joseph never did polygamy! I always assumed he did. But I have researched it a lot over the past few years, and I now totally agree he fought it and hated it. He always called it adultery and abomination. So did Hyrum and Emma.
Do you really believe that Joseph would defy a commandment from the Lord?
@opalmalare4986 Not at all. That's exactly why I know Joseph had nothing to do with polygamy. I used to completely believe polygamy was of God and initiated in the church by Joseph. A deep dive into the scriptures, particularly the BofM and the full JST, convinced me polygamy was never of God. Then a deep dive into the original sources regarding church history convinced me Joseph fought it until the day he died and only ever called it adultery and an abomination.
@@opalmalare4986 That's David's WHOLE point, Sister Opal--Joseph WOULDN'T defy this commandment from the Lord: "A man shall have ONE wife ..."
@@DavidN831 I am not concerned about whether Joseph participated in polygamy or not. I know he is the prophet of this dispensation. Whether he did or not is not going to affect my testimony of him or this gospel. The truth will be made known sometime.
@@opalmalare4986 Yours is a very common viewpoint.
I do not believe that Joseph had marital relations with anyone other than Emma, and anyone who suggests otherwise does so without evidence and wholly set on bias and speculation. Joseph lived what he preached.
Do you denounce Brigham Young as a prophet of God?
@@returnedfrompanama no.
@Thehaystack7999 I think you are right about that. They sealed them to be with him in the next life. And he wasn't with them in the mortal state we're in now. Also this seems to be the most logical way he would have done it. There's no stories of him living with anyone except Emma also. They love to try to make you think otherwise though and get pretty creative with their lies though re: antis etc. I'd read everything in the church growing up. I'd read the history of the church. There were never any accounts of Joseph Smith living with anyone except Emma.
@@noahriding5780 Are you a member of the Community of Christ church? Because you sound like one.
@@noahriding5780 that’s right. And the abundantly fertile Joseph never had children with anyone else, and there is simply no evidence of marital relations at all. It certainly would not hold up in court, nor should Saints enforce rumors that the Prophet Joseph Smith would be some sort of womanizer.
Have you read The Standard of Truth? I would like your opinion on pages 502 through 504, and 507.
I think it was The Stick Of Joseph channel that had a guy on there that did extensive research. He said Joseph married some women who were already pregnant. This way he could have children born under the covenant thereby bypassing the sex part of it.
Bro Palmer I remember that stake conference with Richard G Scott it was AMAZING! 2 other stories from that conference always stuck with me!
1) as a EQ secretary i went to the leadership meeting he held where he said he didn’t want to hear about any more EQ activities to move peoples things in and out of new homes because our activity levels were so low he wanted to only focus on gather in back the inactives…
2) in the adult session he had a Q&A and one man asked Scott the best way to teach his newly returned missionary son that he is too young to get married and that he should get education and a job before marriage and the whole room was silent thinking “why would he ask that?”!
Scott was my favorite for a while after that year!
@@mrbrian87 great memories. Thank you!
Our souls often recognize truth immediately. I never felt Joseph smith was a ‘true polygamist’….i also remember reading section 132 of D&C over a decade ago and feeling very strongly that it was NOT of God. I never knew exactly what to make of it….but I felt at peace just knowing for myself. I also remember reading the ‘official statement’ from the church about the vaccinne…& knew it was not of God. It wasn’t a factual statement. I’ve learned to think of the ‘corporation’ church and the gospel as two different things.
Agreed.
And, btw, any time I see "safe & effective" and "good glo al citizens", the hair on my neck takes a stand....
@@l7846And “literal godsend” 😢
I’ve been through a majority of podcasts, books, papers that speak for and against Jospeh Smith participating in polygamy. My heart has always told me from a young age that it is wrong. The scriptures repeatedly state it is an abomination and there is clear evidence Jospeh Smith taught against it all his days.
People will say things like, “Why are we even talking about this now?” or “Why cause contention about something we no longer live?” I have several reasons:
1. We are taught to seek truth in all things. We have not been taught to put anything on the shelf. That is an idea pushed by man to keep people from questioning and convincing them they are too immature or young to understand the doctrine.
2. This is still being taught as current doctrine and supposedly lived in the eternities
3. God is not the author of confusion. Everything surrounding polygamy is steeped in confusion
4. I will not pretend to be okay with the idea that I don’t have to choose to live polygamy in the next life while so many women have been forced to live it in this life or may have to live it in the next. That is lacking empathy for others while being relieved I have the ability to choose and others did not. (We are not being honest with ourselves if we say the women in the early days of the church had the choice. Especially if we continue to parrot the narrative that Joseph married women behind Emma’s back. Where was Emma’s agency in those accounts?)
5. The timeline does not add up. Too many incorrect dates, late testimonies, hidden secrets. As a prophet, Joseph was open and honest and spoke openly of his human frailties. This is the only thing we try to claim he had to keep hidden or speak “carefully worded denials.” Why? Why are our testimonies so weak that we feel to address these inconsistencies head on would lead to apostasy or losing faith? In all my studies, my faith has actually been strengthened to see that God is consistent, that he chose an honest man and woman to lead in the restoration of His gospel, and the BoM is very clear on what is truth and what is not.
If there is confusion or inconsistencies in anything we are taught in this life, we should be brave enough to face the situation and seek truth. If what we are taught holds up and the Spirit speaks truth to your heart, then continue on. But if not, it’s okay to seek further light and knowledge, trusting God is in charge. God’s plan is perfectly balanced and his love for his sons and daughters is perfectly matched. Polygamy does not create balance nor does it create equality between all men and women. It is anything but these two things.
This is a novel, but it encapsulates many of the thoughts I’ve had as I watch people try to defend confusion, deception, discrepancies, and ideas, that no matter how hard a person tries, just don’t sit right with the plan of happiness. I admire you for speaking up about this Bro. Palmer and hope that others will do so as well as they take the time to challenge the narrative we’ve been taught. Truth will prevail as hearts are opened to the truth that Joseph, Emma, and Hyrum consistently taught during their lives.
Beautiful thoughts. I agree with all. Thank you for your articulation!
Excellent comment
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Yup!!! Can we even have real faith in God, if we believe false things (polygamy) about him???
Alma 32
“21 And now as I said concerning faith-faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, WHICH ARE TRUE.”
Thank you for this beautiful message. ❤
I believe Joseph. He and Emma ALWAYS denounced plural marriage. I think he was attempting to reveal sealing and lesser men, first his friends, were deceived then betrayed him. I believe these men were the liars, not Joseph
Emma hated Joseph because of polygamy. They most definitely were not on the same page. Emma went apostate.
@@exempt8312 Now do a little research and learn the truth. They loved each other and were devoted to each other and followed the commands of God to have only one man with one wife. Read Jacob 2&3 to learn the truth about polygamy.
I believe it was because of how she felt about Brigham Ypumg.
@@exempt8312 this is just slander from Brigham Young. His words directly oppose the tender words exchanged between Joseph and Emma in their letters, as well as what their children testified of, as concerned their relationship.
@@andreab7246 Sure, that's why Emma Hale Smith Bidamon left the church her husband restored under Christ. She apostatized from the church her husband was dedicated to, more so dedicated to than to his wife, Emma. Her burden was massive, but she failed the test. I have no idea what Brigham said about Emma. I didn't base my comment on what Brigham said or didn't say. I based it on Emma's actions- apostacy.
I stand with Joseph and Hyrum... and with Jesus Christ. Let the chips fall where they may. Great scriptures... powerful Moroni!
We are fast running out of time to be concerned with anything less than our eternal salvation and exaltation. Those who lose everything for standing with the Lord shall receive an hundredfold!!!
I am so glad I listened to this entire video! I got home late last night from work and saw your video, started to listen and immediately turned it off cause I knew my brain could not handle it. I have to admit that I also turned it off because I presupposed that my brain and beliefs were going to be challenged. This morning, after a good nights sleep I sat down and listened to the entire episode! I am so glad because I realized two things. First is that I have never believed that Joseph Smith ever lived in a polygamous relationship. However I do believe that there is documented evidence that he was sealed to many other people. I say people because I am not totally sure that there were no men in those sealings because I think at that time there were lots of sealing many people together into the family of God. Again I never believed that JS practiced polygamy. Now this brings me to the second point. I also have never believed that practicing polygamy disqualified Brigham Young as the Lord’s anointed prophet or that this caused him to be a “fallen prophet”. Nor do I believe that practicing polygamy by other leaders disqualified them from being called and anointed of God to lead. Just as I do not believe that banning blacks from the priesthood and temple ordinances disqualified Brigham as the Lord’s anointed prophet. I think that the problem I have had is that there are those who believe it is either or. One or the other so that if you believe JS practiced polygamy then certainly BY was just following in JS path. But if you believe that JS did not practice polygamy then automatically BY is a fallen prophet because he did! I could never reconcile either of those in my head and heart because I always believed that JS did not practice polygamy and firmly believed the BY was the Lord’s anointed prophet and was directed to do things by the Lord and I was not in the room nor was I privy to those conversations! Do I believe that JS or BY were perfect and therefore infallible? No of course not! But womanizers or child molesters? Preposterous! Again, thank you for helping me really validate what I have always believed but could not completely express!
@@g71816 I will say that I don’t believe it was wicked. I will also say that I really believe it is not law or standard of the celestial kingdom but an exception. I also really don’t fret over it because I have a firm testimony of the Doctrine of Christ as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I am focused on His second coming and not on getting caught up in going down rabbit holes. Thank you for allowing me to clarify!
Concerning the sealing ordinance, my wife is sealed to her deceased husband and this is my first marriage. I know we can be sealed after we both die. Do you have any thoughts about why we can’t be sealed while still living? And what happens in the next life where a woman is sealed to more than one man?
I’m absolutely aligned with you on Joseph Smith and the j@b. We joined the church in 1967. Everything I’ve heard from the pulpit, read and learned since then has testified of these same opinions you have about Joseph.
Since David O McKay, and the many gospel scholars who led the church testified of these things.
Keep up the great work.
Great video …great ideas…great testimony….joseph jr is prophet and Christ is King.
For the last 50 years as an adult, I have been aware that Joseph Smith was sealed to several if not many woman. Recent research has shown no children descendants except from Emma. I am totally satisfied with both of those realities. It doesn't degrade my image of Joseph, but strengthens it.
It's ok to be wrong.😂
He was never sealed to anyone else in HIS lifetime. Those all came as proxy sealings after the fact. Joseph loved his one and true wife. ❤️ He's a great example to us all.
Very wise as usual, my friend.
Right on brother. Your countenance doth shine. Thank you for sharing. Joseph Smith Jr. Saw God and Joseph Smith Sr. believed in what he said. Never were there two greater sceptics and they found truth from the source of all truth. Because of their faith in goodness, all human kind now have access to the gospel and direct revelation. This is just phenomenal and simple truth. Joseph Smith is was and will always be good.
The prophet Joseph Smith introduced plural marriage. Enough said. Case closed
I'm afraid if I make a comment, I'll get my head bitten off by some of your new "followers"! 😆 I admire you for doing this channel and taking a stand. Sometimes people say it's the Lord's will when bad things happen. I don't think that is necessarily true. But I do think that he will make all things right again. I think the same is true when we make mistakes. We might not be able to sort through the rubble, but I have hope that through him, everything will be made right.
Loved the video, Scott. For a long time, I assumed Joseph practiced it until you started talking about it. Never knew there was any question, So, I decided to put this church topic to the ChatGPT (AI) test, as I have be doing this with a lot of things, from conspiracies to politics, and got some interesting answers. In case your listeners have never used ChatGPT, it is not always accurate and if you know enough about the given subject, and push back, it will begin to change its tone. Inevitably the first response is the "official narrative" on any subject, but if you push back, it will concede some ground. It is very interesting.
On the subject of Joseph Smith and polygamy, I asked if all these allegations were true, would not there be some children from these relationships. I think there was only one person who claimed she was told by her mother that Joseph was her father, but after some DNA testing (I don't know where they got the DNA), it was proven she was not the daughter of Joseph. Interesting, to say the least.
Thanks! Love listening to your thoughts.
Thanks for the perspective! The D&C 132 was very compelling! For me, the Prophet Joseph Smith was and is a pure vessel from the Lord. Brigham Young was a prophet of God and was worthy of that calling. I am more at ease that that Joseph NOT practicing plural marriage and I am OK that Brigham Young did. He was the Lion of the Lord, not a Sheik with a harem. Easy peasy.
💯 percent.
To me the Jews are now beating their plows into swords and standing strong. I've watched them since 1948 and heard and read the miracles attending them as they have become strong warriors. I've heard discussions from Dr Heiser that Ezekiel 38 and 39 are the same as Revelation 19. They sound more like Zachariah 9 at this point.
I joined the Church because of the Book of Mormon. I'd been a religion minor in college and studied the real history of the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls. I knew it was scripture. Joseph Smith's vision was icing on the cake of what I already believed. I am astounded that people don't realize what's headed our way. I can't imagine they don't know in who we should really be keeping our eyes and heart on. Our Savior, Jesus Christ is on His way and we will see phenomenon that will convince many the man of lawlessness is our Savior because they won't know the diffence.
Joseph Smith can handle himself. I know many brave men of God who have given everything to follow Christ. Jesus Christ is our Creator, Savior, the reason the Universe exists. He's the one I'll live and die for. He's the one I'm trying to learn as much as I can about. Many good men are teaching and preaching His return that are not members of a special church. I've learned a lot of good and bad things as a member of thus one. I regret none of it. Bit it hasn't imprisoned me .
Good for you standing strong!!
Honestly Brother Palmer,
I have been watching your channel for a long time now and I have noticed a change in your demeanor.
I have come to a point where I don't feel the spirit when I watch your channel anymore. This isn't anything against you or your channel. I came here to feed upon the spirit. There are enough channels that talk about and debate church history. I love the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I wish you the best. You and your family are in my prayers always.
I will miss you. Thank you for your polite disagreement, and all your contribution to this channel.
Sorry to hear that, amigo.
But I've got to say that I always felt and continue to feel a wonderful and strong spirit of faith, dedication, love, discipleship, and just plain Christian goodness from Brother Palmer each video.
It's interesting in my mind. The same people that think you would go into apostasy. Are the same people that Revere Spencer Cox, Mit Romney, as a good members of the church.😅
Oh man…I think the opposite. I cannot stand Romney and definitely think that the anti polygamy movement in the church will sift a lot of people out of the church.
@@g71816 we do practice polygamy though. Our prophet has 2 wives. Our next prophet has 2 wives.
Bravo! Spot on!
Thank you for posting this.
What a confusing time to be alive! I just turned 69 and can hardly believe all the changes lately! It keeps us on our toes, so not complaining...
I 💯 agree that he did not practice polygamy. After his death, Emma confirmed it. Thank you for sharing your beliefs on this subject.
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Been studying my scriptures. When I listen to conference and also the talks I was thinking about how we should be supporting the leadership and then I thought of Lehi. Who was the prophet of his time? The spirit directed him along with others to leave different areas at different times and there was a prophet at that time, a prophet of his people. So I find interesting that President Nelson said to stay close to our Savior and listen to the promptings of the spirit, the Holy Ghost. We really should all of us have these promptings that Lehi had. I’m sure he was listening to the prophet of that time and he was a very righteous man to have those dreams and direction at that time. Think of the faith he had to have had. Amazing. What an incredible journey for all of us ahead. These are indeed exciting times.
my theme song tom petty "I wont back down" two cents from a old guy. stand strong with the holy ghost.
What happened with the angel that came to him with a sword or is all that hearsay. What about Eliza Snow that was sealed to him. That Brigham took care of?? Another rumour?
I have a hard time believing that angel with sword story , the angel coming to him 3 times , and telling Joseph on the third time, he will kill Joseph if he doesn’t obey … where was Joseph’s agency ? If that story is true … it’s sooo goes against agency ! IMHO of course .
@@debramessenger8811 Eliza Snow and BY both signed affidavits saying Joseoh Smith wasn't a polygamist before Joseph's death.
@@wheels636 that what I said … IMHO
@@debramessenger8811 I don’t know if it’s true but it’s the angel wth the sword saying ( apparently) obey or die
@@MaGiMo62agreed. That story sounds like something Brigham would say. Obey or be destroyed is in most of his statements. Not trying to say he wasn’t a prophet (because I know all the people will attack me here saying ‘he’s attacking Brigham’”, but it truly does seem more like a story he would say. Joseph rarely spoke like that and never had revelations like that other than this one and dc132.
I love the Prophet Joseph the best blood 🩸 that ever lived !
He is very sacred ground - I agree w/ u some seem not to realize who The Prophet Joseph really was & is!
I would go to family reunions and be asked what wife I descended from. As a kid I found it weird and I was told polygammy was practiced in Utah because there were more women than men and it was how they dealt with it. So it was taught to me as a desperate survival necessity. Some members said it was to restore all things because Abraham practiced polygamy.
Church leaders like Gordon B Hinckley would get off the topic quick and just say it was in the past but we are looking forward. With the internet I think the church just needs to be honest. You are always better off in the long run telling the truth even if some people have a hard time with it.
I think there’s a lot of grey area in the late Nauvoo period due to all the infighting and back biting. I’ve just gotten to the point of thinking nobody knows for sure what was going on. I pretty much grew up in the post David O McKay church. The days of road shows, scouting, gold and green balls, ward sports teams, ward camp outs and for the most part, people were proud of their pioneer heritage. It was good times. Glad I experienced them
Gordon b. Hinckley denounced polygamy to the whole world in a 60-minute interview. You can find it on UA-cam. He said "it's not doctrinal."
@@lindseyloveslearning I remember the interview. It wasn’t doctrine in the church since the manifesto.
It has never been church doctrine. There is NO declaration for it, only against (and several of them, not all are listed in the Doctrine and Covenants). Whenever a declaration has been made on marriage it has always been pro-monogamy, including the Proclamation on the Family and the Clause on Marriage in the original D&C, as well as the law of the Lord found in D&C 42 stating a man cleave to his wife and NONE else.
"You're leading people to apostasy" is an attempt at emotional manipulation. It only works on people who are not close to the Spirit. They won't "search, ponder and pray". If they find Joseph told the truth, then they have to adjust their perspective of their family history. It also creates a problem for those currently living the lifestyle and using Joseph as their excuse.
I do believe Joseph, and my gggg aunt who is one of his wives. I don’t know how all of this will shake out eternally, but JS our first prophet of this dispensation was a polygamist as is our current prophet.
@@rebeccabaca2909 How many children did your gggg have with Joseph? What was her name? In the official church lesson manual "Teachings of Presidents of the Church - Joseph Smith" has the the date of his marriage to Emma. There is no mention of any other marriages to other women or their names.
Scanning over these comments makes me laugh at myself from back in my days when I stressed over this topic. We can get answers from God instead of fighting over it on social media. This is such a non issue for me finally. I used to really wrestle with this when I was younger. So glad I have peace about it now. I don’t have answers but don’t have questions anymore, either. I love Joseph Smith and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. It was a good seed and grew into something amazing.
AMEN Brother Palmer!
To be honest. The church is responsible for the polygamy controversy. I was taught that it was Brigham Young that practiced polygamy. All the reasons as you stated. More women then men, only a few called to practice it. Etc. Even the modern manual (2000's) "Teachings of the President's of the church". Joseph Smith had but one wife, Emma. It wasn't until the church caught between a rock and hard spot, forced to be more transparent. Started teaching "the truth" Joseph was a polygamist. If anyone needs to apologize, it would be the church. That, as we know, will not happen.
@@dl1130 perfect. Thank you
I’m a faithful member of the church and I agree with this. More transparency and accountability with these sensitive issues will keep members in the church. Obfuscation and blaming the messengers will drive more people out.
I also think the “elite”scriptorians at BYU just muddy the waters
Can’t believe you liked that comment, Palmer.
Amen.
In the beginning Adam was only given one wife, Eve. If polygamy was required for the highest degree of glory, wouldn't it have been set up that way from the beginning? Absolutely we choose who we want to be sealed to on the other side...amen!
So good to see that more people are standing up for dear Brother Joseph and showing others that Joseph was not guilty.
Joseph doesn't need to be defended from anything. I personally think the problem is ours not his.
@@confusedwhynot When a man's name is dragged through the mud then we should defend him because he isn't here to defend himself but to each his own.
Fabulous video scott! Iv seen that guy now on Thoughtful faith , can't bring myself to watch him , all feels very divisive.
Scott, I am right there with you👍 My faith is in Christ, I believe the priesthood has been restored through Joseph, the Book of Mormon is the word of God.
I will continue to stand & take the sacrament. God is Good, Jesus is the Christ ❤🙏
Thank you for proclaiming the truth in defending Joseph Smith! Why do you suppose the current prophets are not doing the same?
Because they know whereas Palmer doesn't.
Probably the same reason the temple ban lasted so many years. The Lord did make it right. Both problems were taken care of. I think they are concerned of the fragile “testimonies” of many saints. President Nelson still has the borrowed keys from Joseph.
WHEW! For an instant there I thought you had listened to Brian Hales and caved. Great to see you haven't. LOL
@@BrianTerrill I don't have to pretend anything. I go by the dead prophets in the Book of Mormon.
@@BrianTerrill No, none of them said that God could command his people to practice polygamy. God calls polygamy a crime, a whoredom and an abomination. Doesn't sound like anything He would command anyone to do. I can't find any instance when He commanded anyone to practice polygamy.
@@BrianTerrill BrianTerril, if you've seen the movie, Princess Bride, you have heard the perfect response to your comment above: "I don't think that word [phrase] means what you think it means"
Years ago when I prayed about whether polygamy was of God, I received the very clear prompting to read what Joseph Smith said about it. Everything published by the church seemed to indicate that Joseph received it by revelation. A few years ago, thanks to the Joseph Smith Papers Project, I could finally read the original journals and meeting notes written during JS’s lifetime. I was shocked that every such document actually condemned the practice in every form! Brigham Young over saw the “revision” of Joseph’s writings which altered them all to say exactly the opposite of what Joseph said and taught! I’m still reeling from this discovery and pleading with God to teach me how to navigate because it turns out that BY “revised”, changed, and added a ton of crap that was not from Joseph or God. Thankfully, the LDS church has disavowed much of it like blood atonement, and priesthood ban for blacks, but there is MORE. Ugh. Well, I guess that God warned us that He would cleanse “his house” first. I’m choosing to look to God and trust that he will guide us through this messy time.
Thank you! Hallelujah! Loved when you said that those who speak of Joseph Smith as a polygamist sneaking around behind Emma are speaking evil of the Lords anointed. This hit me hard! I have recently been following Michelle Stone and love her work. Next, have you watched Who Killed Joseph Smith? Fascinated by your wisdom. Thank you for making these videos!