Savathun trying to explain higher level theories of physics and space time to what is essentially a Hive toddler will always be my favorite lore entry.
She gains power through misunderstanding. What if this was the moment where she coined the idea and was testing it's function? Remember her worm at the end was pleased, so her hypothesis ended up becoming true.
Quick story prediction - it doesn't matter if Eris manages to defeat Xivu. If Eris pulls it off she has defeated a hive god with the hive's own magic, embodying cunning and bringing Savathuun back. If Eris fails then Savathuun has tricked Eris into a doomed path of self-corruption, thus creating enough power to pull Savathuun back anyways.
This is true but it could also lead to oryx’s resurrection since Eris has come to understand the hive and their logics thus conjuring understanding to possible conjure back oryx and since oryx could return Imaru slips away again and finds savathun’s corpse or a shard of her remains and we have two hive gods back on the field
@DTheWhiteWolfD her worm is still in play - we've got it in a gun. She could claim it back and reshape it to be more useful to her. It wouldn't shock me if us preserving it was always part of the plan too.
@@DTheWhiteWolfD at the level of the three main hive gods the worm is more burden than boon, In fact Oryx should really be considered the first to have lost their worm as it should have been taken by his power leaving it bound to him right the rest of the hive of his faction instead of the other way around
The fact that it’s called an engine implies that Savathûn traps people in there and just draws power from their misunderstanding of it until they either die, go insane, or fully understand the engine. That’s just such a horrifying concept and i love it.
You forgot one group of people for her to throw in. Those who are completely ignorant of it's nature. Just imagine a group of subjects is thrown in the cube room but it isn't a cube just a normal room from their perspective because they are so ignorant to any kind of tricks being played.
The only character I find more interesting than Savathun we only learned about with Lightfall is the vex refugee in the veil/cloud network and that interest comes from how little we still know about them compared to Savathun that we know a lot about but haven't learned the how/why to her what.
Another thing I noticed from the TtP lore book is that Savathun pulls a random Thall to the High Coven and also mentions an event horizon and iirc when Nokris met with Savathun back in Arrivals he did so near an event horizon and when the illusion disappeared all Nokris saw was a single Thrall when Savathun had been.
I like to imagine Byf as his own character in the Destiny lore, a warlock who just hordes lorebooks and archived conversations between the other characters
He just somehow has listening devices planted on every single character and they either don’t know about it, can’t find it, or their ghosts are in on it
@@outbreakperfected5704 It's not hard to believe that all comms are logged by their ghost. It could be fun to imagine his Warlock is a hidden agent debriefing us on some newfound info.
@@Amirifiz The _real_ question begs to be asked: Which color of crayon is Titan Byf's favorite? I'm pretty sure my Warlock prefers sipping a nice vintage Bombay Blue ink whenever he can find a bottle.
This actually explains really well how we were able to kill Savathun in Witch Queen, we learned about how she was deceived by the witness before she did and when she refused to accept the truth behind that she lost power and gave it to us
Wouldn't she not have had those power any more without the Worm? Also Witness didn't trick them because the Leviathan told all of them to wait for the Traveller because the Deep would not have what they want. They were warned but still chose to go for it
It didn't matter. Until very recently, Savathun did not actually have the ability to generate tribute from deception. That was her goal with the Dreaming City and Shattered Throne. We stopped her from gaining that ability. Because of this, she sought another way out of her eternal conquest, and rid herself of her worm, embracing the light. Since Witch Queen, it seems like Bungie has forgotten that Savathun never had this ability. It's a more interesting setup, but it presents a massive plot hole. Savathun would not have gone after the light if she had this ability.
@@ASpaceOstrich Savathun is the god of cunning - deception is a form of cunning is it not? Tricking an entire populace is essentially what Oryx did, and that brought Savathun back to life after he killed her. It's not really a plot hole, it's just a bunch of different words for the same thing. I assumed her goal with the Dreaming City was once again, a way to feed her worm without having to actually do any work. It didn't work (of course) but that was fine, she had more time to figure out another step, which is what led to the Truth to Power lorebook. Maybe I'm getting my order of events mixed up, but she always had this ability?
@@secondubly She's the god of cunning, but Hive gods do not gain power from their aspects. They're required to embody their aspects, and can invoke their aspects in rituals, but they only ever gain power from conquest. Savathun explicitly never had this ability, and everything she did in Forsaken was to try and gain this ability. When that failed, she tried to get rid of her worm entirely.
Ultimately I think that Imbaru is a failsafe. That if all plots failed, somehow, someway, we or someone else would use Imbaru or its chamber as a way to conjure Savvy back to life. Soooo...Immaru the Edgy Ghost is soooo expendably squishy he doesn't even know it.
Problem is that if Immaru dies savathun looses the only tether to ressurection since she then will be dead both in Universe and Throneworld Leading to the throneworld collapse
@@bobertastic6541 She is currently dead in both. Only Immaru has the power to resurrect her, but so far he hasn't wanted to, folllowing a plan laid down by Savathun herself, plus the Vanguard have hidden her body and denied Immaru access.
Something that I haven't been able to figure out is -- has Savathun successfully removed worms from the tribute system entirely? Because her worm is removed, so imbaru is strengthening her directly? If so, I wonder is part of her plan right now is to test whether she can be resurrected using the "conjured by cunning" method alone, without Immaru's help? Imagine not needing to be revived by a ghost.
Dammit Floop thats a 💩 tonne of imbaru you’ve just generated there. But in short I believe she’s playing the odds, is she revived through the sword logic, imbaru, Immaru? Who knows, better to have 3 potential plans in place than put all your eggs in one basket. Also helps that two of those methods passively empower her in the mean time.
I mean... guardians, specifically warlocks CAN revive without the use of their ghost (d1 sunsinger). So it might be possible that savathun could conjure herself a new body with enough tribute, which would be pretty cool.
Let's not forget that Savathûn's worm isn't gone - we've got it in a gun atm, using it to gather tribute to itself. If she claims it back, she's got full access to light and dark.
So when we revealed the truth about the witness to savathun in the witch queen were we able to kill her because we knew something that she didn’t and therefore weakening her?
@@BustuhhBut since she was lied to, a withhold of information and thus making you believe something that isn’t true AKA Imbaru, wouldn’t that have empowered Savathun?
The mention of Dul Incaru and the curse on the dreaming city makes me wonder when we are going to finally put an end to that curse. It tithes to both Savathun AND Xivu at this point, and maybe ending the curse is a way to not only stop a constant source of tribute to Xivu, but also weaken Savathun in some way and allow us to gain her knowledge without actually reviving her? Idk it's a glaring loose end that needs to be tied and it seems like this might be a good story tie in to do so
The secret triumph in the title for this season is revealed after you complete the activity. There is one other Imbaru Engine puzzle to be completed; it'll most likely become available next reset or the reset after.
9:25 can you imagine if there was an exotic quest that started by reading this entry in the Truth to Power lore book? As in you open this lore tab then after 15-20 seconds your screen begins to fade out and after a loading screen your in the tower acting out the lore tab. If you get the puzzle right a portal to the exotic mission opens? That would be so epic. Definitely like if you agree and maybe we can get the idea to catch on.
I think that savathun wants more than just to get rid of xivu arath. If eris kills xivu. And then when savathun is resurrected and tells us how to enter the portal. She could through cunning, kill eris. This would make her more powerful than any hive god before most likely.
Every time you wonder what Savathun's song actually does, you generate Imbaru. By the very questioning of what imbaru is you are generating imbaru. So how does the Imbaru engine work? It doesn't and therefore it does. Byf right now is making it work. Its confusing existence is to generate power by confusing. If you are confused. Power is gained. And Savathun plays games that are Deep. She isn't playing with The Guardian. She is playing with us. Our thinking about it gives her power. Byf drawing more attention to it in a video gives Savathun power. Savathun is not bound by the game in canon.
Yeah its kind of funny cuz I remember going "wait didn't savathun create a boot strap in to the literal universe because she actually has interacted with people through social media" (imagine the Imbaru from THAT) so by all means Byf is currently feeding Savathun by trying to get what the heck Imbaru is
Virgin “We can’t trust it not enough proof” vs Chad “If I believe it to be True then I can’t be Lied to and I will twist everything to keep my delusions”
Hey Byf, Truth to Power isn’t the only example of Imbaru Savathun introduced to the Guardians. There is also the Mars Missives she fabricated in the WQ expansion, could you mention that pls? Also in-universe, Truth to Power exists as a popular manifesto from Savathun to create Imbaru from the Vanguard’s misinterpretations of her modus operandi.
20:00 Notice how the introductory mission for Altars of Summoning is called Conjure? I just thought of it as like witchey magic stuff, but judging that she's syphoning Imbaru off of our tithes to eris to "conjure" herself back like in the books of sorrow is cool
Savathuan as a character is the type that breaks 4th wall. Her power of imbaru is happening everytime BYF opens his mouth on this subject Savathuan is gain power becoming real in our dominsion
From the research i did yesterday when watching your previous video on this, Imbaru is the Sumerian word for "mist," which is very fitting as Savathun's version of imbaru is a type of obfuscation of information, or a mist blocking our view of the truth.
The name "The Imbaru Engine" strikes a eerie parallel to the Dreaming City's The Oracle Engine. That's in addition to the exact same split-circle design present on Riven's spire in the Dreaming City appearing on Savathun's spire. Consider also that Cathedral of Scars and The Citadel, both in the Dreaming City, are returning soon. This season is quickly becoming my favorite
It's weirdly wholesome that Savathun, one of the most powerful paracausal beings in the Universe, invites a lowly Thrall to listen to her explain her master plan to achieve immortality, and it just politely does it's best to understand. Assuming any of this is true... I absolutely adore it.
Imbaru reminds me of a quote from War Games: "The only winning move is not to play" - Joshua. Merely thinking, or hearing or anything related to Imbaru makes Savathun more powerful
@@Consp357 exactly. Thats what I meant by tht quote. Its a only lose situation. Those who haven't even heard of Imbaru technically don't fall victim to it. Those haven't even have had heard the word being uttered, to be exact.
What you said in the end there about not being done with the Imbaru Engine, I don't think we are either. Because if you look at the triumphs, there's the Test of Cunning that we did this week, and then there seems to be more Tests as well.
My favorite part about Byfe explaining the Imbaru engine is the invisible war going on between him and Savathuun. When one reads lore they tithe to Byfe, when you understand lore you further tithe to Byfe. But the nature of the Imbaru engine goes against his logic
Ey was waiting for this one cuz this one of those story beats where i was like. "I think I know what this is but also not at all." and given what it all means and what Imbaru is makes really fun for me lol
I'm going to repeat something I said in the last video: if Savathun gains power through the imbalance of knowledge and understanding, such an imbalance only matters if we actually care about it. You don't outmaneuver someone like this, you don't outthink them. You beat them by NOT thinking, by not engaging, by being blissfully ignorant. Savathun cannot be said to have displayed cunning with the Imbaru Engine if no one participates in that activity. This is just like how we had to sacrifice Rasputin and the Warmind network in order to avoid falling into Xivu Arath's trap of inadvertently tithing to the Domain of War. Another example can be found in Portal 2 when Glados tries to overpower Wheatley's mind with the paradoxical sentence "This sentence is false," only Wheatley is too stupid to logically think it through and it has no effect on him. We outmaneuver Savathun's schemes by choosing to be stupid and blissfully ignorant, by tapping into the Titan-Brain we all have, and just smash the thing to pieces so that Savathun does not have the opportunity to put her cunning on display. If Savathun is a DM in a TTRPG, then the goal is to derail her campaign through unpredictable chaos, which, as we know from the Witness, is what the Light does. This may sound counterintuitive to a lore master like Byf, who may be inadvertently empowering Savathun on a meta level through these videos, but when an obvious lose-lose trap like the Imbaru Engine exists, all we can realistically do to avoid empowering Savathun is just look at it, say "Aww, that's cute," and then ignore it. And when someone says, "Aren't you worried by your lack of understanding of what it's for?" you simply say, "I don't need to understand how the trap works in order to give it a wide berth. I just need to stay away from it." Only then will we truly outsmart Savathun, by being dumb. Think of it this way: You know "The Game" right? Well, you just lost. That's all that Savathun is doing to us. Nothing more, and nothing less. To truly win, all we have to do is ignore her.
It makes me wonder if Savathun is trying to resurrect herself by Imbaru. Like when Oryx acted in a cunning matter to resurrect her and conjured up Xivu by waging war against the Ecumene. Savathun is technically still the Hive God of Cunning, and her worm still lives via the Parasite G.L.. It does sound like a Savathun thing to do be honest.
I love how if the imbaru engine isnt the imbaru engine than it is an imbaru engine using the confutation of the devices function to essentially empower savathun
The Imbarru Engine mission...That broke my head in understanding but now I know why! One of the first two chests didn't spawn for me! Opened every chest before it ended in utter confusion because of that happening...
Gotta love how the hive gods adopt concepts they consider will fuel them infinitelly. It's a shame Oryx failed to become the axiom of Death. Now that would a sight to see.
Wow the fact the lore set truth to power has been hinting at how it works in its name in itself this whole time. I havent finished the video but is the most basic way to put imbaru as doubt?
Do I think Eris will die this season? Yes. Do I think Byf's prediction of Eris trapping Xivu Arath in a lose lose has more substance after this video? Also yes. I think Eris will not have enough power to defeat her and she will die, but "You have commited vengeance, and I have been conjured with Vengeance" will come to pass, and Eris will have the strength to withstand Xivu in future conflicts, and subsequentially defeat Xivu since she cannot win with war since the combat is based in vengeance.
Well I guess I gave Savathun a good amount of Imbaru doing this mission. After opening all the chests, I wandered about trying to figure out how to "Clear the mist" as it said on the top left of my screen. I think I wandered around for at least 15 minutes trying to figure it out till I pulled open my quest tab and realized it said to go back to the helm...... so yeah, Savathun ate pretty good from my big dumb self lol.
you know, after hearing that part about xivu and savathun being ressurected, i wonder if Eris is actually going to die, and we will conjure her back with revenge, as she is revenge
Understanding= a tithe (heads I win) Imbaru= a bigger tithe (tails you lose) Honestly the best way to win at this is for us to make the honest logical decision to step away thus we make clear we choose not to remain ignorant giving into cunning but choose to understand Imbaru is at play and refuse to engage with understanding or ignorance creating Imbaru effectively bringing both forms of tithe to a stand still and holding Savathun in Stalemate.
Really makes you appreciate and be intimidated that Savathun even tricked the Witness. She didn’t just weaponize knowledge, she weaponized the concept of knowledge.
Has anyone ever considered that in order of embaru to work , the truth must be known or at least a path to it must exist. Further more if everything we know of the “engine” is false perhaps the thrall from that passage is intrinsically linked to it. After all savathun would love it if we over thought the name of a humble thrall . Think about it , if we can’t trust savathun maybe it’s not where she leads us but the blank area no one would think to look at. All the while she feeds on our ignorance to a plain truth hidden by lies and distractions.
2 things: -by understanding how the hive came to be in the witch queen campaign, did that take away some of Savathun’s strength because she lost Imbaru? -by choosing to not care, or wording or understanding correctly, would we be able to reduce the amount of imbaru Savathun receives? For example, a Titan not caring and punching because scary monster, does that reduce the cunning because it doesn’t matter, or a warlock saying “the truth to Savathun is she is untruthful” would that mean we have a greater understanding and thus reduce her imbaru?
this is some of the most interesting lore to me. by aquiring the light and dying, savathun has made countless think and attempt to understand her. by searching for answers and failing, she gains strength. but by following the path of lies to the center, we will destroy the very thing that gives her strength. i think she is helping us defeat the witness because she fears his cunning. savathun has never been stronger. we must use her fear to our advantage!
15:45 When you expect the God of Lies to tell you only lies, then even the truth is a lie. Savathun has been straight-forward with us ever since she lost her murder battery. We just have to finally accept that friendship is magic in the world of Destiny. We've made friends with the Fallen (Eliksni), the Cabal, and we're working on the Hive now. I don't think it's possible to reason with the Vex.
Actually, it is possible to reason with the Vex. We just need to think causally instead of paracausally. After all, the Vex are built on logic alone. If we make the case to the Vex that the Witness intends to destroy them by implementing the Final Shape of its' design *and explain our logic as to how we reached that conclusion,* we may turn the Vex completely and totally against the Witness.
My man, Asher may make you second guess that. I think he was there helping during the season of the Splicer as a vex. The destiny story writing likes to leave hints like that.
if we can convince the vex that their survival is threatened by us, some may become subservient like in the black garden. there may be some way to convince them that they can exist and survive WITHOUT consuming the material universe, but that's unlikely for now.
We could probably ally with certain sub factions of vex, probably just not the sol divisive. If we could make them understand the final shape as the witness sees it, they wouldn't find that cash money
Real question, If given the chance to be a named enemy in the destiny verse, what faction would you choose and why? What would your story be in this verse and what would be your purpose? Anyone can answer, Iam curious as a lore lover
I would vote for the vex, since they are still so mysterious by this day and by lore standards that we have only fought against the construction workers, also gameplay wise it could open up many new features, like using the forest simulation to create an hub, or your personal room for the trophies or triumphs you have completed through the game while it also had an area like what we had in the menagerie where you could use holograms of certain type of enemies, what would be even more of a dope idea is a simulation where you can switch between raid encounters where an raid sherpa can use it to explain the room layout or mechanics
@@introvert_8372Alright, well I want to be a Rogue Fallen from House-Light called “The Vexocrat”, and my backstory would be that I used to be one of Mithrax’s Splicers, but I had more of an interest in vex technology rather than the light within all things, which lead to my disillusionment with Mithrax-kel and House-Light as a whole (basically Osiris’ backstory but with Mithrax instead of The Speaker). Where I would come into the story is in a Vanguard strike on Europa where a party of Fallen are raiding the remains of the Deep Stone Crypt, and I have sent a vex copy of myself to oversee the mission in order to retrieve a sample of the purified vex mind-fluid, so I can transplant myself into an exoframe. I succeed in obtaining a sample, although it costs me copy of myself who is destroyed by a strike team who is being advised by Mithrax. From here, I suppose I would be some cool lore about a second exo-fallen who navigates the vex network and it’s simulations with an ever-expanding army of Vex copies. This whole thing is heavily inspired by Osiris’ lore, though I do think it is better than Osiris because I am an enemy you would eventually have to fight. Thoughts?
What if shes trying to come back twice we embody savathun and bring her back through her throne world then imaru brings her back through a ghost boom two savathun light and dark we know hive can do that(split into two forms)
We generate power for Savathun no matter what. By not engaging with the Imbaru Engine with the intent of trying to avoid generating Imbaru, we display cunning in trying to cut off her power from us at its' source. And in so doing, we conjure cunning, which is what Savathun was after anyways.
When you really think about Truth to power and all the lore videos and... solo dungeon videos... it generated at the time... it IS the ultimate Imbaru engine.
The genius that is the Imbaru Engine, I am fairly certain that if we are to uncover every secret of the Engine, that Savathun would be conjured back on the spot. Because if we were to understand Savathun’s Imaru Engine, that would be the greatest display of cunning. There may be and ARG in here aswell
And i thought for the trubite to be delivered the Hive gods need the Worm implemented. and since Savathun got rid of hers, well... i assumed she cant gain any more tribute.
How can Savathûn still collect tribute when we excised her worm? Also, your reward for correctly guessing the right chest isn’t “nothing” - you get +7 glimmer for each one, and then a loot drop after three sets
makes you wonder if that one titan from a past lore video, i sadly forget their name, would be immune to imbaru cuz their potential just ignoring of the whole imbaru thing
I did a little bit of research on why the chests fuel Savathun's imbaru are as they are. One note is from the altars of summoning. Mechanically, if you and your fireteam (two others) stand on the matching symbol of three and not the others, you get the lucent buff. However, it is always two symbols: the hive symbol for lie/haste and what my group calls "spiky". So into the proper reasoning of imbaru engine. Each chest is tied to either symbol, with a directional arrow pointing to the chest (very important for this week in the last sequence of chests). Every lie rune you choose, you are accepting as the correct answer, which then empowers Savathun with her lie and trickery. However, with finding the correct chests you prove your cunning in that knowledge, thus defeating this weeks engine. I thought that was something I would share. If it has already been said, then cool. :)
So out of bored curiosity, i googled "Imbaru" in translation. What i found, Imbaru in kinyarwanda, the name of the language most spoken in Rwanda, means "Numbers" This might be a massive, light year sized stretch, but perhaps Imbaru, or "Numbers" actually is what they mean. But again, monstrous stretch. 'the Imbaru, mason! What do they mean!?!?'
I love that while I'm listening to his videos the ads pop up at hilarious times. "Truth to Power Lorebook reads as follows:" "Do you need to improve your personal hygeine?" Lmao
So what I find Utterly fascinating to even further bring the point home (after me pondering this nugget of info, further making Imbaru for Savathun) Is that the Lore read from the "Truth to Power" entry of Savathun describing the creation of Imbaru and presumably the Imabru Engine to ome of her Thrall.... The lowest ranking members of the Hive Hierarchy and military, KNOWING it would not be able fully comprehend entirely the scope of scale to what Savathun's plans are, just simply agreeing with Her on its design amd why it should exist. Therefore not understanding Imbaru but embracing For the Witch Queen.. and why it says in that lore entry that "Ur-The Ever Hunger Heard this, And Was Pleased" Proving its existence as the second logic of the Hives, of the most cunning and creating the first documented case of Imbaru... from within Her own court JUST TO PROVE. What Savathun schemes will come to pass making her self-fulfiled prophecy have validity within the Universe. That to me is Utterly fascinating and it makes me question Everything that Savathun has said Ever that we know of since Destiny 1 to Season of the Witch and makes me beg the question in regards to Her experiments with the light inside Her Spire amd the Oubliette... Does time move differently within a Throne world? Cause frlm Season of the Lost to The Witch Queen in game its about 7 days between from when Savathun was freed from Her worm... did she avtually experiment on the light from Years within the Throne world before we arrived so she could use the unpredictable nature of the light to furtjer enhance Her Imbaru engine knowing that we would pursue her Thus setting off the events of The Witch Queen expansion... Its a Massive rabit hole to explore amd very fascinating one that Bungie I am very glad they are writing. Some truly out there Sci-fi story written, On level to what the gods of the Warhammer universe d to each other. Truly some very fascinating things and I'm stoked to see this season through on the story front
Furthering my tangent here. Do we all remember the Two Truths, Two Lies quests from The Witch Queen? Where Savathun told us all of what was to come for the events to come in the future. THAT ITSELF is having us create Imbaru. She herself states that "Doubting a truth or believing in a lie creates Imbaru for you cannot perceive or understand what is so" Therefore us trying to psychoanalyze and figure what the Two Truths and Two lies are gave Savathun Imbaru 🤯 No one can understand Savathun and Her plans, just simply attempt to make sense of them... Thus creating Imbaru.. like this is truly wild and Another question I would pose is this. Where is all the Imbaru going? I saw someone in the comments mention for their story predictions that either A: Eris defeats Xivu-Arath through her give magic, tricking Xivu to act against her worm, thus allowing Savathun resurrection but I don't know if that's possible since she doesn't have a worm.... THEN AGAIN with enough philosophical tribute through Imbaru trapped within Her Oubliette... .... Could Savathun have found a way to resurrect without the need of a Ghost? A perfect "Get out of jail free card"? for like of a better term 😲😳😶 Again all of this is Truly Super fascinating stuff and has me pondering so much on this it makes me question if whether or not Us in reality is giving Imbaru to Savathun through Bungie's writers, allowing her to exist in our universe, OUR REALITY! She wanted to break the 4th wall and... Fuck I think she did
We could all be having a critical misunderstanding though; Like petrol or diesel engine, the Imbaru engine may not be used to create Imbaru, but be powered by it for something (for example, Oryx powered the taken weapon on his dreadnought with his sword, perhaps Savathûn was utilising this for something similar - like her dreadnoughts cloaking device) As a temporary failsafe against tithing misconceptions to the Witch Queen (whether she accomplished this ability or not), it’s best to just accept that this is something that exists - the structure or gravity is abnormal? Consider it a temporary change in nature - it doesn’t need an explanation, it’s just the way it is (Side note, but ironic of me coming up with a theory after saying that, but Savathûn said she wishes for the location to be under the event horizon correct? That could explain the anomalous gravity)
Truth to power is actually genius. By saying “this book is full of lies” as a preface, you immediately look at everything with circumspection. Even if the book is all full of truths, you doubting that truth feeds savathun, even trying to decide whether “this book is full of lies” is a lie in and of itself feeding her. How much power she must gain when we consider whether every sentence in the entire book is true or false.
What if Savathun knew we would keep her worm alive and every misunderstanding we’ve had has fed the worm as if she still had it, thus giving her the option to going back to darkness if light didn’t work out or the possibility of wielding both as she has seen us do?
I think you are overlooking the wider implications of Imbaru. It means that Savathun can exist without having to resort to the destructive methods of her siblings. That allows her to coexist with other beings without having to constantly destroy them.
She isn't supposed to be able to do that. This is actually a pretty big plot hole. Savathun wanted to be able to do this, but we stopped her in Shattered Throne. So instead, she escaped the Sword Logic entirely by going for the light. Her now gaining power from deception defeats the purpose of her getting rid of her worm in the first place. Its a shame, because its really cool, but its a massive plot hole.
What if conjuring cunning through the imbaru engine summons Savathûn’s body out of its secure hiding spot from wherever the Feds (hidden) placed it right to Immaru, Savathûn gets rezzed and skips out on our deal to find a way to go through the portal?
Savathuan is engage with us the actual gamer. Her Imbaru is is elegant and masterful. Only way to engage iz to not engage but by doing nothing you create Imbaru.
... Wait. Doesn't that mean the final boss room in the Prophecy dungeon is an Imbaru engine? Prophecy has a ton of motifs with light and dark, has a room laid out similarly to Savathuns engine, and ends with tithing light and dark motes to go gain access to a room that is (now that I think about it) heavily implied of traveling through a "portal" with a circle surrounded by pyramids at the end. Curious.
Savathun trying to explain higher level theories of physics and space time to what is essentially a Hive toddler will always be my favorite lore entry.
She gains power through misunderstanding. What if this was the moment where she coined the idea and was testing it's function? Remember her worm at the end was pleased, so her hypothesis ended up becoming true.
Ikr it cracks me up
@@Glitch177 yes I know, but just the idea and the fact that even thrall tries go "wait, hold up give me a second..." is what makes me laugh
Quick story prediction - it doesn't matter if Eris manages to defeat Xivu. If Eris pulls it off she has defeated a hive god with the hive's own magic, embodying cunning and bringing Savathuun back. If Eris fails then Savathuun has tricked Eris into a doomed path of self-corruption, thus creating enough power to pull Savathuun back anyways.
This is true but it could also lead to oryx’s resurrection since Eris has come to understand the hive and their logics thus conjuring understanding to possible conjure back oryx and since oryx could return Imaru slips away again and finds savathun’s corpse or a shard of her remains and we have two hive gods back on the field
@@thedankpapyrus4779oh god
Could it work like that considering she’s wormless tho?
@DTheWhiteWolfD her worm is still in play - we've got it in a gun.
She could claim it back and reshape it to be more useful to her. It wouldn't shock me if us preserving it was always part of the plan too.
@@DTheWhiteWolfD at the level of the three main hive gods the worm is more burden than boon, In fact Oryx should really be considered the first to have lost their worm as it should have been taken by his power leaving it bound to him right the rest of the hive of his faction instead of the other way around
The fact that it’s called an engine implies that Savathûn traps people in there and just draws power from their misunderstanding of it until they either die, go insane, or fully understand the engine. That’s just such a horrifying concept and i love it.
I call the correct rune, Knife-thru
Rube goldberg would be proud.
You forgot one group of people for her to throw in. Those who are completely ignorant of it's nature. Just imagine a group of subjects is thrown in the cube room but it isn't a cube just a normal room from their perspective because they are so ignorant to any kind of tricks being played.
@@truekurayami could she just throw a bunch of thrall in there and they would never be able to understand it?
@@FunniesRSor a Titan could walk around senseless breaking stuff like a bull in a China shop.
Once again, savathûn continues to be the most interesting destiny character in my eyes
She’s one of the best villains I’ve ever seen in any franchise honestly
The only character I find more interesting than Savathun we only learned about with Lightfall is the vex refugee in the veil/cloud network and that interest comes from how little we still know about them compared to Savathun that we know a lot about but haven't learned the how/why to her what.
@@FlynnCaydeSolo Borderlands 2 Handsome Jack was the better villain, but Savathun is the better antagonist.
@@FlynnCaydeSoloits very true, she has such an omnipresence throughout every story she is in. You always have to come back to what she does.
@@truekurayami Pretty sure thats just Soteria. But I agree her lore is pretty cool
Maybe Imbaru is the friends we made along the way?
No
thanks zavala
I like how Savathun has her own version of the evil overlord vow "I will employ a 5 year-old to point out any flaws in my plans".
Another thing I noticed from the TtP lore book is that Savathun pulls a random Thall to the High Coven and also mentions an event horizon and iirc when Nokris met with Savathun back in Arrivals he did so near an event horizon and when the illusion disappeared all Nokris saw was a single Thrall when Savathun had been.
I like to imagine Byf as his own character in the Destiny lore, a warlock who just hordes lorebooks and archived conversations between the other characters
He just somehow has listening devices planted on every single character and they either don’t know about it, can’t find it, or their ghosts are in on it
@@outbreakperfected5704 It's not hard to believe that all comms are logged by their ghost. It could be fun to imagine his Warlock is a hidden agent debriefing us on some newfound info.
Byf the greatest of the hidden because he can gather info on anyone from the destiny universe, and from any time up to the current present.
Byf is a Titan, so its a Titan that hoards books and archives convos.
@@Amirifiz
The _real_ question begs to be asked:
Which color of crayon is Titan Byf's favorite?
I'm pretty sure my Warlock prefers sipping a nice vintage Bombay Blue ink whenever he can find a bottle.
This actually explains really well how we were able to kill Savathun in Witch Queen, we learned about how she was deceived by the witness before she did and when she refused to accept the truth behind that she lost power and gave it to us
Wouldn't she not have had those power any more without the Worm? Also Witness didn't trick them because the Leviathan told all of them to wait for the Traveller because the Deep would not have what they want. They were warned but still chose to go for it
It didn't matter. Until very recently, Savathun did not actually have the ability to generate tribute from deception. That was her goal with the Dreaming City and Shattered Throne. We stopped her from gaining that ability. Because of this, she sought another way out of her eternal conquest, and rid herself of her worm, embracing the light.
Since Witch Queen, it seems like Bungie has forgotten that Savathun never had this ability. It's a more interesting setup, but it presents a massive plot hole. Savathun would not have gone after the light if she had this ability.
@@ASpaceOstrich Savathun is the god of cunning - deception is a form of cunning is it not? Tricking an entire populace is essentially what Oryx did, and that brought Savathun back to life after he killed her. It's not really a plot hole, it's just a bunch of different words for the same thing. I assumed her goal with the Dreaming City was once again, a way to feed her worm without having to actually do any work. It didn't work (of course) but that was fine, she had more time to figure out another step, which is what led to the Truth to Power lorebook.
Maybe I'm getting my order of events mixed up, but she always had this ability?
@@secondubly She's the god of cunning, but Hive gods do not gain power from their aspects. They're required to embody their aspects, and can invoke their aspects in rituals, but they only ever gain power from conquest. Savathun explicitly never had this ability, and everything she did in Forsaken was to try and gain this ability. When that failed, she tried to get rid of her worm entirely.
Looks at xivu.... Are you sure about that statement?
Ultimately I think that Imbaru is a failsafe. That if all plots failed, somehow, someway, we or someone else would use Imbaru or its chamber as a way to conjure Savvy back to life.
Soooo...Immaru the Edgy Ghost is soooo expendably squishy he doesn't even know it.
Problem is that if Immaru dies savathun looses the only tether to ressurection since she then will be dead both in Universe and Throneworld
Leading to the throneworld collapse
@@Yokoto12343 wait is she not dead in the throneworld, but dead in the universe?
@@bobertastic6541 She is currently dead in both. Only Immaru has the power to resurrect her, but so far he hasn't wanted to, folllowing a plan laid down by Savathun herself, plus the Vanguard have hidden her body and denied Immaru access.
@@reamoinmcdonachadh9519 If I remember its not that he doesnt want to. He kinda just can't.
@@bobertastic6541It’s both. He won’t rez Savathun until we’ve dealt with Xivu.
Something that I haven't been able to figure out is -- has Savathun successfully removed worms from the tribute system entirely? Because her worm is removed, so imbaru is strengthening her directly? If so, I wonder is part of her plan right now is to test whether she can be resurrected using the "conjured by cunning" method alone, without Immaru's help? Imagine not needing to be revived by a ghost.
Dammit Floop thats a 💩 tonne of imbaru you’ve just generated there.
But in short I believe she’s playing the odds, is she revived through the sword logic, imbaru, Immaru? Who knows, better to have 3 potential plans in place than put all your eggs in one basket. Also helps that two of those methods passively empower her in the mean time.
I mean... guardians, specifically warlocks CAN revive without the use of their ghost (d1 sunsinger). So it might be possible that savathun could conjure herself a new body with enough tribute, which would be pretty cool.
Let's not forget that Savathûn's worm isn't gone - we've got it in a gun atm, using it to gather tribute to itself.
If she claims it back, she's got full access to light and dark.
@@SymbioteMulleteh, I find it very difficult for her to somehow get a worm that’s in our vaults, inside a grenade launcher
she would still need to not be killed in her throne world and would still need Imaru for that to work.
So when we revealed the truth about the witness to savathun in the witch queen were we able to kill her because we knew something that she didn’t and therefore weakening her?
We weakened her, because her life was a lie, after that we killed her using sword logic
@@BustuhhBut since she was lied to, a withhold of information and thus making you believe something that isn’t true AKA Imbaru, wouldn’t that have empowered Savathun?
The mention of Dul Incaru and the curse on the dreaming city makes me wonder when we are going to finally put an end to that curse. It tithes to both Savathun AND Xivu at this point, and maybe ending the curse is a way to not only stop a constant source of tribute to Xivu, but also weaken Savathun in some way and allow us to gain her knowledge without actually reviving her? Idk it's a glaring loose end that needs to be tied and it seems like this might be a good story tie in to do so
The secret triumph in the title for this season is revealed after you complete the activity. There is one other Imbaru Engine puzzle to be completed; it'll most likely become available next reset or the reset after.
9:25 can you imagine if there was an exotic quest that started by reading this entry in the Truth to Power lore book? As in you open this lore tab then after 15-20 seconds your screen begins to fade out and after a loading screen your in the tower acting out the lore tab. If you get the puzzle right a portal to the exotic mission opens? That would be so epic. Definitely like if you agree and maybe we can get the idea to catch on.
I think that savathun wants more than just to get rid of xivu arath. If eris kills xivu. And then when savathun is resurrected and tells us how to enter the portal. She could through cunning, kill eris. This would make her more powerful than any hive god before most likely.
Every time you wonder what Savathun's song actually does, you generate Imbaru. By the very questioning of what imbaru is you are generating imbaru.
So how does the Imbaru engine work? It doesn't and therefore it does. Byf right now is making it work. Its confusing existence is to generate power by confusing. If you are confused. Power is gained.
And Savathun plays games that are Deep. She isn't playing with The Guardian. She is playing with us. Our thinking about it gives her power. Byf drawing more attention to it in a video gives Savathun power. Savathun is not bound by the game in canon.
makes me wonder how much imbaru is generated during a day 1 raid
@@giga-eggnone, i was too tired to be confused
Yeah its kind of funny cuz I remember going "wait didn't savathun create a boot strap in to the literal universe because she actually has interacted with people through social media" (imagine the Imbaru from THAT) so by all means Byf is currently feeding Savathun by trying to get what the heck Imbaru is
THE HIVE GOD OF LEGACY (AND LORE) HAS SPOKEN! AIAT!
Ring of Spears gang
AIAT!
Hive God of Lore, we invoke him when we devour knowledge
AIAT
AIAT!
Virgin “We can’t trust it not enough proof” vs Chad “If I believe it to be True then I can’t be Lied to and I will twist everything to keep my delusions”
I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned, but you get special dialogue from ikora if you complete the mission without death
Hey Byf, Truth to Power isn’t the only example of Imbaru Savathun introduced to the Guardians. There is also the Mars Missives she fabricated in the WQ expansion, could you mention that pls?
Also in-universe, Truth to Power exists as a popular manifesto from Savathun to create Imbaru from the Vanguard’s misinterpretations of her modus operandi.
Your editor has improved over the years.
What you mean?
Wait…is Imbaru Destiny’s version of…”The Game”?😂
Did you just...
20:00
Notice how the introductory mission for Altars of Summoning is called Conjure? I just thought of it as like witchey magic stuff, but judging that she's syphoning Imbaru off of our tithes to eris to "conjure" herself back like in the books of sorrow is cool
Savathûn is sitting back having drinks with Tzeench and Ceogorach and laughing and laughing and laughing...
Just going to say, I love Savathuns character, and I cant wait until she helps us smash the Witness into tiny pieces.
Savathuan as a character is the type that breaks 4th wall. Her power of imbaru is happening everytime BYF opens his mouth on this subject Savathuan is gain power becoming real in our dominsion
Try remember she is still evil and has committed Genocide across the universe because they didn't listen to the Leviathan
@@jamieharper1051which is fascinating as well as terrifying
From the research i did yesterday when watching your previous video on this, Imbaru is the Sumerian word for "mist," which is very fitting as Savathun's version of imbaru is a type of obfuscation of information, or a mist blocking our view of the truth.
The name "The Imbaru Engine" strikes a eerie parallel to the Dreaming City's The Oracle Engine. That's in addition to the exact same split-circle design present on Riven's spire in the Dreaming City appearing on Savathun's spire. Consider also that Cathedral of Scars and The Citadel, both in the Dreaming City, are returning soon. This season is quickly becoming my favorite
It's weirdly wholesome that Savathun, one of the most powerful paracausal beings in the Universe, invites a lowly Thrall to listen to her explain her master plan to achieve immortality, and it just politely does it's best to understand. Assuming any of this is true... I absolutely adore it.
[The threads of imbaru are woven in shadow. Only eyes that read between the lines will see its………atmospheric glow.]
Imbaru reminds me of a quote from War Games:
"The only winning move is not to play" - Joshua.
Merely thinking, or hearing or anything related to Imbaru makes Savathun more powerful
irony being coming to this conclusion is tribute but only the once if you can somehow make this possible in reality
@@Consp357 exactly. Thats what I meant by tht quote. Its a only lose situation. Those who haven't even heard of Imbaru technically don't fall victim to it. Those haven't even have had heard the word being uttered, to be exact.
What you said in the end there about not being done with the Imbaru Engine, I don't think we are either. Because if you look at the triumphs, there's the Test of Cunning that we did this week, and then there seems to be more Tests as well.
Byf spoke of imbaru and spoke of makeing an in depth video on imbaru thus, he has done so, Aiat.
My favorite part about Byfe explaining the Imbaru engine is the invisible war going on between him and Savathuun. When one reads lore they tithe to Byfe, when you understand lore you further tithe to Byfe. But the nature of the Imbaru engine goes against his logic
I love how often whenever he says “was as follows” it’s usually followed by an ad and I’m just like. Ok. Savathun just into old spice like dat then?
Earliest I've ever been to any video at all. Was excited for this exact video
Ey was waiting for this one cuz this one of those story beats where i was like. "I think I know what this is but also not at all." and given what it all means and what Imbaru is makes really fun for me lol
I'm going to repeat something I said in the last video: if Savathun gains power through the imbalance of knowledge and understanding, such an imbalance only matters if we actually care about it. You don't outmaneuver someone like this, you don't outthink them. You beat them by NOT thinking, by not engaging, by being blissfully ignorant. Savathun cannot be said to have displayed cunning with the Imbaru Engine if no one participates in that activity.
This is just like how we had to sacrifice Rasputin and the Warmind network in order to avoid falling into Xivu Arath's trap of inadvertently tithing to the Domain of War. Another example can be found in Portal 2 when Glados tries to overpower Wheatley's mind with the paradoxical sentence "This sentence is false," only Wheatley is too stupid to logically think it through and it has no effect on him. We outmaneuver Savathun's schemes by choosing to be stupid and blissfully ignorant, by tapping into the Titan-Brain we all have, and just smash the thing to pieces so that Savathun does not have the opportunity to put her cunning on display. If Savathun is a DM in a TTRPG, then the goal is to derail her campaign through unpredictable chaos, which, as we know from the Witness, is what the Light does.
This may sound counterintuitive to a lore master like Byf, who may be inadvertently empowering Savathun on a meta level through these videos, but when an obvious lose-lose trap like the Imbaru Engine exists, all we can realistically do to avoid empowering Savathun is just look at it, say "Aww, that's cute," and then ignore it. And when someone says, "Aren't you worried by your lack of understanding of what it's for?" you simply say, "I don't need to understand how the trap works in order to give it a wide berth. I just need to stay away from it." Only then will we truly outsmart Savathun, by being dumb.
Think of it this way: You know "The Game" right? Well, you just lost.
That's all that Savathun is doing to us. Nothing more, and nothing less. To truly win, all we have to do is ignore her.
It makes me wonder if Savathun is trying to resurrect herself by Imbaru. Like when Oryx acted in a cunning matter to resurrect her and conjured up Xivu by waging war against the Ecumene. Savathun is technically still the Hive God of Cunning, and her worm still lives via the Parasite G.L.. It does sound like a Savathun thing to do be honest.
I love how if the imbaru engine isnt the imbaru engine than it is an imbaru engine using the confutation of the devices function to essentially empower savathun
The Imbarru Engine mission...That broke my head in understanding but now I know why! One of the first two chests didn't spawn for me! Opened every chest before it ended in utter confusion because of that happening...
this is the part we find out Byf has been a Hive Wizard this whole time and has been feeding us mis-infomation to Tithe to Savathuun
Gotta love how the hive gods adopt concepts they consider will fuel them infinitelly. It's a shame Oryx failed to become the axiom of Death. Now that would a sight to see.
Savathun is now drawing power directly from Byf.
Frightening.
Wow the fact the lore set truth to power has been hinting at how it works in its name in itself this whole time. I havent finished the video but is the most basic way to put imbaru as doubt?
Savathun using “humdinger” and talking about “refinancing my existence” and “existential economy” is hilarious. Not sure why, it just is.
Bungie's going to put in a TWID "updated the Imbaru Engine" and then not do it specifically to generate Imbaru. I just know it.
Do I think Eris will die this season?
Yes.
Do I think Byf's prediction of Eris trapping Xivu Arath in a lose lose has more substance after this video?
Also yes.
I think Eris will not have enough power to defeat her and she will die, but "You have commited vengeance, and I have been conjured with Vengeance" will come to pass, and Eris will have the strength to withstand Xivu in future conflicts, and subsequentially defeat Xivu since she cannot win with war since the combat is based in vengeance.
Basically the Undertaker standing behind AJ Styles meme
@@hithere5553 DUDE YES
Or Moe tossing Barney out the bar, then reappearing behind Moe lmao
@@n8dawgg93barney? How the hell do you keep reappearing?
How do ik I'm drunk
HOLY, that desk mat is ELEGANT !
Well I guess I gave Savathun a good amount of Imbaru doing this mission. After opening all the chests, I wandered about trying to figure out how to "Clear the mist" as it said on the top left of my screen. I think I wandered around for at least 15 minutes trying to figure it out till I pulled open my quest tab and realized it said to go back to the helm...... so yeah, Savathun ate pretty good from my big dumb self lol.
you know, after hearing that part about xivu and savathun being ressurected, i wonder if Eris is actually going to die, and we will conjure her back with revenge, as she is revenge
I like to think Savathun is aware Byf exists and this video is part of her plan.
Understanding= a tithe (heads I win)
Imbaru= a bigger tithe (tails you lose)
Honestly the best way to win at this is for us to make the honest logical decision to step away thus we make clear we choose not to remain ignorant giving into cunning but choose to understand Imbaru is at play and refuse to engage with understanding or ignorance creating Imbaru effectively bringing both forms of tithe to a stand still and holding Savathun in Stalemate.
Really makes you appreciate and be intimidated that Savathun even tricked the Witness. She didn’t just weaponize knowledge, she weaponized the concept of knowledge.
Has anyone ever considered that in order of embaru to work , the truth must be known or at least a path to it must exist. Further more if everything we know of the “engine” is false perhaps the thrall from that passage is intrinsically linked to it. After all savathun would love it if we over thought the name of a humble thrall . Think about it , if we can’t trust savathun maybe it’s not where she leads us but the blank area no one would think to look at. All the while she feeds on our ignorance to a plain truth hidden by lies and distractions.
19:30 you have conjured me back with cunning 😮
Savathun is the one who made those complicated story word problems in math to earn more tribute
2 things:
-by understanding how the hive came to be in the witch queen campaign, did that take away some of Savathun’s strength because she lost Imbaru?
-by choosing to not care, or wording or understanding correctly, would we be able to reduce the amount of imbaru Savathun receives? For example, a Titan not caring and punching because scary monster, does that reduce the cunning because it doesn’t matter, or a warlock saying “the truth to Savathun is she is untruthful” would that mean we have a greater understanding and thus reduce her imbaru?
this is some of the most interesting lore to me. by aquiring the light and dying, savathun has made countless think and attempt to understand her. by searching for answers and failing, she gains strength. but by following the path of lies to the center, we will destroy the very thing that gives her strength. i think she is helping us defeat the witness because she fears his cunning. savathun has never been stronger. we must use her fear to our advantage!
15:45 When you expect the God of Lies to tell you only lies, then even the truth is a lie. Savathun has been straight-forward with us ever since she lost her murder battery. We just have to finally accept that friendship is magic in the world of Destiny. We've made friends with the Fallen (Eliksni), the Cabal, and we're working on the Hive now. I don't think it's possible to reason with the Vex.
Actually, it is possible to reason with the Vex. We just need to think causally instead of paracausally. After all, the Vex are built on logic alone. If we make the case to the Vex that the Witness intends to destroy them by implementing the Final Shape of its' design *and explain our logic as to how we reached that conclusion,* we may turn the Vex completely and totally against the Witness.
My man, Asher may make you second guess that. I think he was there helping during the season of the Splicer as a vex.
The destiny story writing likes to leave hints like that.
if we can convince the vex that their survival is threatened by us, some may become subservient like in the black garden. there may be some way to convince them that they can exist and survive WITHOUT consuming the material universe, but that's unlikely for now.
We could probably ally with certain sub factions of vex, probably just not the sol divisive. If we could make them understand the final shape as the witness sees it, they wouldn't find that cash money
Real question, If given the chance to be a named enemy in the destiny verse, what faction would you choose and why?
What would your story be in this verse and what would be your purpose?
Anyone can answer, Iam curious as a lore lover
Is this a question for byf only, or can anyone answer?
I would vote for the vex, since they are still so mysterious by this day and by lore standards that we have only fought against the construction workers, also gameplay wise it could open up many new features, like using the forest simulation to create an hub, or your personal room for the trophies or triumphs you have completed through the game while it also had an area like what we had in the menagerie where you could use holograms of certain type of enemies, what would be even more of a dope idea is a simulation where you can switch between raid encounters where an raid sherpa can use it to explain the room layout or mechanics
@@condescendingonlineman2136 go ahead share your story
@@introvert_8372Alright, well I want to be a Rogue Fallen from House-Light called “The Vexocrat”, and my backstory would be that I used to be one of Mithrax’s Splicers, but I had more of an interest in vex technology rather than the light within all things, which lead to my disillusionment with Mithrax-kel and House-Light as a whole (basically Osiris’ backstory but with Mithrax instead of The Speaker). Where I would come into the story is in a Vanguard strike on Europa where a party of Fallen are raiding the remains of the Deep Stone Crypt, and I have sent a vex copy of myself to oversee the mission in order to retrieve a sample of the purified vex mind-fluid, so I can transplant myself into an exoframe. I succeed in obtaining a sample, although it costs me copy of myself who is destroyed by a strike team who is being advised by Mithrax. From here, I suppose I would be some cool lore about a second exo-fallen who navigates the vex network and it’s simulations with an ever-expanding army of Vex copies. This whole thing is heavily inspired by Osiris’ lore, though I do think it is better than Osiris because I am an enemy you would eventually have to fight.
Thoughts?
The hive without there worms
Savathun strapping thralls to a chair and showing them riddles to generate imbaru
I'm getting I AM ALPHARIUS vibes when your dealing with deepcover sleeper agent operations or activities.
What if shes trying to come back twice we embody savathun and bring her back through her throne world then imaru brings her back through a ghost boom two savathun light and dark we know hive can do that(split into two forms)
If savathun gains power from not understanding then byf is the ultimate weapon against her
With all the Gun inbaru last weekend I’m surprised Savathun didn’t show herself lol
It was a weekend that made everyone question can this be real
I think the fact that we keep having to return to Truth To Power, especially even knowing that it's full of lies, says a lot too.
We generate power for Savathun no matter what. By not engaging with the Imbaru Engine with the intent of trying to avoid generating Imbaru, we display cunning in trying to cut off her power from us at its' source. And in so doing, we conjure cunning, which is what Savathun was after anyways.
Savathûn is literally powering her godhood off of escape rooms
When you really think about Truth to power and all the lore videos and... solo dungeon videos... it generated at the time... it IS the ultimate Imbaru engine.
That mission is some trippy Doctor Strange stuff there.
Savathun to confused thrall:
So it's " The Game" and you just lost by thinking about it.
Thrall: lol I get it
The genius that is the Imbaru Engine, I am fairly certain that if we are to uncover every secret of the Engine, that Savathun would be conjured back on the spot. Because if we were to understand Savathun’s Imaru Engine, that would be the greatest display of cunning. There may be and ARG in here aswell
And i thought for the trubite to be delivered the Hive gods need the Worm implemented. and since Savathun got rid of hers, well... i assumed she cant gain any more tribute.
How can Savathûn still collect tribute when we excised her worm? Also, your reward for correctly guessing the right chest isn’t “nothing” - you get +7 glimmer for each one, and then a loot drop after three sets
makes you wonder if that one titan from a past lore video, i sadly forget their name, would be immune to imbaru cuz their potential just ignoring of the whole imbaru thing
When we ressurect her, I'm betting she will say "I am cunning and you have conjured me back with cunning".
I did a little bit of research on why the chests fuel Savathun's imbaru are as they are. One note is from the altars of summoning. Mechanically, if you and your fireteam (two others) stand on the matching symbol of three and not the others, you get the lucent buff. However, it is always two symbols: the hive symbol for lie/haste and what my group calls "spiky".
So into the proper reasoning of imbaru engine. Each chest is tied to either symbol, with a directional arrow pointing to the chest (very important for this week in the last sequence of chests). Every lie rune you choose, you are accepting as the correct answer, which then empowers Savathun with her lie and trickery. However, with finding the correct chests you prove your cunning in that knowledge, thus defeating this weeks engine.
I thought that was something I would share. If it has already been said, then cool. :)
Savathun explaining her grand scheme to a thrall is like full grown adult talking down to a baby because they don't understand how to fill out a 1099
"That particular bit of brain poison reads as follows: NEW NUTELLA BISCUITS!!!"
Thank you, UA-cam ad timing, for making me spit my drink
so… Dynasty and the making of it was a big Imbaru tribute
So out of bored curiosity, i googled "Imbaru" in translation.
What i found, Imbaru in kinyarwanda, the name of the language most spoken in Rwanda, means "Numbers"
This might be a massive, light year sized stretch, but perhaps Imbaru, or "Numbers" actually is what they mean.
But again, monstrous stretch.
'the Imbaru, mason! What do they mean!?!?'
I love that while I'm listening to his videos the ads pop up at hilarious times.
"Truth to Power Lorebook reads as follows:"
"Do you need to improve your personal hygeine?"
Lmao
Maybe that's why we were able to defeat savathun back in witch queen. We knee somthing she didn't. Proving us more cunning
So what I find Utterly fascinating to even further bring the point home (after me pondering this nugget of info, further making Imbaru for Savathun) Is that the Lore read from the "Truth to Power" entry of Savathun describing the creation of Imbaru and presumably the Imabru Engine to ome of her Thrall.... The lowest ranking members of the Hive Hierarchy and military, KNOWING it would not be able fully comprehend entirely the scope of scale to what Savathun's plans are, just simply agreeing with Her on its design amd why it should exist. Therefore not understanding Imbaru but embracing For the Witch Queen.. and why it says in that lore entry that "Ur-The Ever Hunger Heard this, And Was Pleased" Proving its existence as the second logic of the Hives, of the most cunning and creating the first documented case of Imbaru... from within Her own court JUST TO PROVE. What Savathun schemes will come to pass making her self-fulfiled prophecy have validity within the Universe.
That to me is Utterly fascinating and it makes me question Everything that Savathun has said Ever that we know of since Destiny 1 to Season of the Witch and makes me beg the question in regards to Her experiments with the light inside Her Spire amd the Oubliette... Does time move differently within a Throne world? Cause frlm Season of the Lost to The Witch Queen in game its about 7 days between from when Savathun was freed from Her worm... did she avtually experiment on the light from Years within the Throne world before we arrived so she could use the unpredictable nature of the light to furtjer enhance Her Imbaru engine knowing that we would pursue her Thus setting off the events of The Witch Queen expansion...
Its a Massive rabit hole to explore amd very fascinating one that Bungie I am very glad they are writing. Some truly out there Sci-fi story written, On level to what the gods of the Warhammer universe d to each other.
Truly some very fascinating things and I'm stoked to see this season through on the story front
Furthering my tangent here. Do we all remember the Two Truths, Two Lies quests from The Witch Queen? Where Savathun told us all of what was to come for the events to come in the future.
THAT ITSELF is having us create Imbaru. She herself states that "Doubting a truth or believing in a lie creates Imbaru for you cannot perceive or understand what is so" Therefore us trying to psychoanalyze and figure what the Two Truths and Two lies are gave Savathun Imbaru 🤯
No one can understand Savathun and Her plans, just simply attempt to make sense of them... Thus creating Imbaru.. like this is truly wild and Another question I would pose is this.
Where is all the Imbaru going? I saw someone in the comments mention for their story predictions that either A: Eris defeats Xivu-Arath through her give magic, tricking Xivu to act against her worm, thus allowing Savathun resurrection but I don't know if that's possible since she doesn't have a worm.... THEN AGAIN with enough philosophical tribute through Imbaru trapped within Her Oubliette... .... Could Savathun have found a way to resurrect without the need of a Ghost? A perfect "Get out of jail free card"? for like of a better term 😲😳😶
Again all of this is Truly Super fascinating stuff and has me pondering so much on this it makes me question if whether or not Us in reality is giving Imbaru to Savathun through Bungie's writers, allowing her to exist in our universe, OUR REALITY! She wanted to break the 4th wall and... Fuck I think she did
That desk mat is insane
Reminds me of Roko's Basilisk and other metaphysical information hazards...
She reshaped the sword logic? That is impressive.
We could all be having a critical misunderstanding though;
Like petrol or diesel engine, the Imbaru engine may not be used to create Imbaru, but be powered by it for something (for example, Oryx powered the taken weapon on his dreadnought with his sword, perhaps Savathûn was utilising this for something similar - like her dreadnoughts cloaking device)
As a temporary failsafe against tithing misconceptions to the Witch Queen (whether she accomplished this ability or not), it’s best to just accept that this is something that exists - the structure or gravity is abnormal? Consider it a temporary change in nature - it doesn’t need an explanation, it’s just the way it is
(Side note, but ironic of me coming up with a theory after saying that, but Savathûn said she wishes for the location to be under the event horizon correct? That could explain the anomalous gravity)
Strangely enough, the gravity in the imbaru engine isn't from the center but from the outside
Truth to power is actually genius. By saying “this book is full of lies” as a preface, you immediately look at everything with circumspection. Even if the book is all full of truths, you doubting that truth feeds savathun, even trying to decide whether “this book is full of lies” is a lie in and of itself feeding her. How much power she must gain when we consider whether every sentence in the entire book is true or false.
What if Savathun knew we would keep her worm alive and every misunderstanding we’ve had has fed the worm as if she still had it, thus giving her the option to going back to darkness if light didn’t work out or the possibility of wielding both as she has seen us do?
I think you are overlooking the wider implications of Imbaru. It means that Savathun can exist without having to resort to the destructive methods of her siblings. That allows her to coexist with other beings without having to constantly destroy them.
She isn't supposed to be able to do that. This is actually a pretty big plot hole. Savathun wanted to be able to do this, but we stopped her in Shattered Throne. So instead, she escaped the Sword Logic entirely by going for the light. Her now gaining power from deception defeats the purpose of her getting rid of her worm in the first place. Its a shame, because its really cool, but its a massive plot hole.
What if conjuring cunning through the imbaru engine summons Savathûn’s body out of its secure hiding spot from wherever the Feds (hidden) placed it right to Immaru, Savathûn gets rezzed and skips out on our deal to find a way to go through the portal?
"Wake up babe, new lore daddy video just dropped"
Savathuan is engage with us the actual gamer. Her Imbaru is is elegant and masterful. Only way to engage iz to not engage but by doing nothing you create Imbaru.
The tithes created through Imbaru is the Hive version of Roko's Basilisk. There. I have helped feed both. Aiat.
... Wait.
Doesn't that mean the final boss room in the Prophecy dungeon is an Imbaru engine?
Prophecy has a ton of motifs with light and dark, has a room laid out similarly to Savathuns engine, and ends with tithing light and dark motes to go gain access to a room that is (now that I think about it) heavily implied of traveling through a "portal" with a circle surrounded by pyramids at the end.
Curious.
Imbaru is like The Game. Which I just lost. I just lost The Game. Thanks, Imbaru.
I’ve come to name the Union Jack looking rune truth and the jellyfish looking one lies, aiat.