Thanks Chris. I recently did a 200-mile freeway drive in my HW3 MY and found that, even with 12.5.4.2 (separate highway stack), it was doing the same behaviors regarding getting into the passing lane to get around slower vehicles and then getting out when a faster vehicle approached from behind. I completed the trip with zero disengagement.
I did try 12.5.4.2 in snow in Chicago yesterday. It acted exactly the same as no snow. Accelerated way too fast and pulled up to car in front of me too fast. Then I tried to turn it on 10 minutes later and it would not work saying cameras were blocked. So no unsupervised in snowy areas for a while. Fun fun fun
23:37 From my first 12.5.6.3 drive in my Model Y, onward, INCREDIBLE SMOOTHNESS accelerating and doing most maneuvers, but late and therefore hard (though usually smooth) braking at stop signs. I am so glad that it isn't still doing the Zeno's Paradox demonstration stops it was glacially performing prior to 12.5.6.3, but I'm hoping FSD will find a middle ground.
This version has given me a few non disengagement drives! The best so far. Couple things that are still issues: 1. Speed control on non highways...it still goes below the speed limit! I find myself pushing the accelerator when people are behind me. Highway speed control is pretty good. 2. Stop signs... I don't know why, but the car seems to stop pretty abruptly at stop signs most of the time. Traffic lights seem much smoother. It's getting closer though, and am really enjoying using FSD.
I have never cleaned any of my cameras, outside of when I wash my cars (going on 5 years for my Model 3. It has never affected FSD, as best I know. The B pillar cameras occasionally get fogged from the glass that covers them.
I’m on 12.5.6.3 and I don’t know if it’s like a Canada thing but I get so so many disengagements it’s so crappy here honestly and it puts me in wildly dangerous situations in the city and out highway is good only
Ya know how cows when they get an itch, they go to the corner of the field where there's a tree trunk angled at just the right height? (Or even better, the farmer has put in a brush for them to rub against?) This will be the solution for dirty cameras, except the "back scratchers" might instead be a little auto cam wash area at each Supercharger stop, or you could have Tesla app users earn credits by volunteering to give the nearest cab a quick wipe of the dirty cam either at Superchargers or just out and about 😅
I don’t count the accelerated tap to go as an intervention because parking lots are not officially a part of FSD. When FSD release notes say park and unpark, then expect more from the system.
When moving back out of the passing lane does it allow enough space before moving so that you do not appear to be cutting them off or being dangerously close (esp a semi)? That is my consistent experience with v12.5.4+(and I am on Chill).
I understand the comments about the camera, but at the same time I think the cameras are just fine. Yeah, the side camera is pretty discolored because of the dirt, but there isn’t anything it can’t see because of the dirt. If you were to wear brown tinted glasses, sure, everything looks weird, but you can still tell when there’s a car beside you and know exactly where it is. Stuff like that is part of the training data, and they explicitly talked about working to improve how it drives when the cameras are dirty. At night there’s almost no color, so the car should almost be able to drive just fine if the cameras were black and white. Various scientific fields have different tests to tell whether you can actually see clearly (e.g. the Secchi disk for water transparency), and if the cameras pass those tests it should be just fine regardless of how discolored they are.
It would be so easy for them to add windshield washer sprayers aimed at the cameras that could automatically spray them off after an auto burst of compressed air to blow on them dry ?
Hi Chris do you have rainx in America? It a good water repellent for the windscreen. If you apply it you don't need wipers at a certain speed. It may help
I’ve had ZERO safety interventions for the last 3+ months and 99% of my drives are with FSD. ZERO critical interventions. The only times I intervened was when it used to select the wrong lane and would cause 3-5 minute reroute when I was in a hurry. Otherwise, it’s been AMAZING since 12.5. In Northern California, especially if nav is optimized for decreased interventions (ie avoid problem areas like UPS/FedEx already does) many routes are ready for unsupervised FSD - at least in my area.
I would say the only thing stopping it from being perfect on the highway stack Chris is that there’s still instances where you can see clearly above where construction is narrowing the cars to one lane. Or just traffic in general congestion to one lane due to something outside of construction like a cop having a car pulled over or something. FSD still doesn’t recognize the scenarios from my experience on 12.5.6.3. 50% of th Traffic is congested to one lane at least but FSD will still try to pass and get ahead even though you as a human driver can clearly see way up above that everything’s just merging into one lane so that’s the only problems I’ve had but of that yes it’s perfect. Also agree on the stopping front it doesn’t have the same smoothness as the city stack . This leads questions that there’s two separate stacks happening that are both neural that it’s not one continuous stack.
Why? I was just wondering because I have never heard that fronted as a reason we won't get robotaxis? (I would put many other possible reasons above this problem)
That was a good drive, but it wasn’t zero-disengagement. It wanted to turn right when the nav said to go straight at 17:24 and you took over to prevent that.
If you want to see it fail every time, navigate off i94 eastbound toward w michigan ave past S Hewitt St Ypsilanti, it'll stay in the left turning lane and freak out 100% of the time when trying to go straight.
Once you touch anything even if that’s what fsd is supposed to do it has to be counted as an intervention because in a robotaxi scenario you have no steering wheel or pedals.
@ I thought musk said robotaxi was coming in October?! I’m not saying for you to not tap the pedal when you need to. Just saying you need to count that
Why not just put wiper fluid cleaners on all the cameras to clean with a push of a button? Even set it where software can auto clean if it has issues seeing possible solution?
Appreciate you raising the hardware issues for "driverless". I've been making that argument on other channels that still parrot the talking point that the existing fleet will become driverless taxis with "just a software update". Um, no. Does FSD not engage until you press the accelerator because the driver is responsible to ensure there is nothing in the front blindspot? There's a reason it backed up 2 feet before it went forward when they first released ASS. I think the Cybercab is going to be huge but it will also have all hardware it needs to be a driverless taxi.
Seriously, I'm not sending out my Tesla as a driverless taxi if a passenger can brick the car simply by leaving the door open when they exit the car. The scenarios to try to account for are endless. You have to engineer as many of them out as possible and then you still need a system and logistics to deal with when the car has an issue and needs assistance.
It can see through pretty dirty cameras and work fine. in my short term, they might have to ask the rider to clean them off to continue the ride. Long term I think they will have a solution.
dont you feel like the speed profiles are an inappropriate band-aid for a fundamental flaw? you shouldnt need to tell the car to hurry just to hold any speed on any road...
This is very weather related and you really don't want to be getting out of your cab to clean the cameras in bad weather. The cams will have to be self cleaning.
Tesla AI is based on vision so Tesla should not go cheap on keeping the cameras clean. Not sure a robotaxi client will be happy to have to clean cameras before each trip or worse in the middle of the trip !
I'm wondering why the other legacy car companies don't just buy a part of Tesla, by investing billions in TSLA, instead of wasting billions trying to build their own EVs that are not profitable. If they invested $50 billion in TSLA stock, (approximately 5% of Tesla's current valuation), they would make a lot more money than wasting $50 billion trying to build EV batteries, better software, better EV designs, safer EVs, 48 volt tech, FSD, steer by wire tech, autonomous EVs, etc. That maybe the only way for the non Tesla legacy automakers to avoid bankruptcy.
True but the legacy car companies are run by people who care more about the short term and their own careers than the long term future of the company or society at large.
“Better EV designs” Purely subjective. I find Teslas to be bland, over-simplified, and stale. “Steer by wire tech” Not everyone wants that. I personally dislike the feeling of steer by wire. “48 volt tech” Other automakers (Hyundai/Kia for example) have this as well. “Autonomous EVs” The majority of the population still prefer to drive rather to be driven by a robot due to the unpredictability that FSD still has. EDIT: Also people dislike Elon.
☀Use the totally FREE tools from DroneQuote to see potential EV and Solar Panel savings: dronequote.net/dirtytesla
Maybe cybercab will automatically go to a car wash😂
Nnnnoooooo
@@DirtyTesla😂
TSLAQ coping so hard as FSD continues to improve and their shorts get blown up
Thanks Chris. I recently did a 200-mile freeway drive in my HW3 MY and found that, even with 12.5.4.2 (separate highway stack), it was doing the same behaviors regarding getting into the passing lane to get around slower vehicles and then getting out when a faster vehicle approached from behind. I completed the trip with zero disengagement.
DirtyTesla wants cameras to be clean. 🤔😜
But that's it!
@@DirtyTesla😂
A MUDDY drive from DIRTY Tesla…..
Brilliant
I did try 12.5.4.2 in snow in Chicago yesterday. It acted exactly the same as no snow. Accelerated way too fast and pulled up to car in front of me too fast. Then I tried to turn it on 10 minutes later and it would not work saying cameras were blocked. So no unsupervised in snowy areas for a while.
Fun fun fun
23:37 From my first 12.5.6.3 drive in my Model Y, onward, INCREDIBLE SMOOTHNESS accelerating and doing most maneuvers, but late and therefore hard (though usually smooth) braking at stop signs. I am so glad that it isn't still doing the Zeno's Paradox demonstration stops it was glacially performing prior to 12.5.6.3, but I'm hoping FSD will find a middle ground.
This version has given me a few non disengagement drives! The best so far. Couple things that are still issues:
1. Speed control on non highways...it still goes below the speed limit! I find myself pushing the accelerator when people are behind me. Highway speed control is pretty good.
2. Stop signs... I don't know why, but the car seems to stop pretty abruptly at stop signs most of the time. Traffic lights seem much smoother.
It's getting closer though, and am really enjoying using FSD.
speed control on non-highways only works if the posted speed is 50 or higher.
I have never cleaned any of my cameras, outside of when I wash my cars (going on 5 years for my Model 3. It has never affected FSD, as best I know. The B pillar cameras occasionally get fogged from the glass that covers them.
I’m on 12.5.6.3 and I don’t know if it’s like a Canada thing but I get so so many disengagements it’s so crappy here honestly and it puts me in wildly dangerous situations in the city and out highway is good only
Ya know how cows when they get an itch, they go to the corner of the field where there's a tree trunk angled at just the right height? (Or even better, the farmer has put in a brush for them to rub against?)
This will be the solution for dirty cameras, except the "back scratchers" might instead be a little auto cam wash area at each Supercharger stop, or you could have Tesla app users earn credits by volunteering to give the nearest cab a quick wipe of the dirty cam either at Superchargers or just out and about 😅
I don’t count the accelerated tap to go as an intervention because parking lots are not officially a part of FSD. When FSD release notes say park and unpark, then expect more from the system.
When moving back out of the passing lane does it allow enough space before moving so that you do not appear to be cutting them off or being dangerously close (esp a semi)? That is my consistent experience with v12.5.4+(and I am on Chill).
I understand the comments about the camera, but at the same time I think the cameras are just fine. Yeah, the side camera is pretty discolored because of the dirt, but there isn’t anything it can’t see because of the dirt. If you were to wear brown tinted glasses, sure, everything looks weird, but you can still tell when there’s a car beside you and know exactly where it is. Stuff like that is part of the training data, and they explicitly talked about working to improve how it drives when the cameras are dirty. At night there’s almost no color, so the car should almost be able to drive just fine if the cameras were black and white. Various scientific fields have different tests to tell whether you can actually see clearly (e.g. the Secchi disk for water transparency), and if the cameras pass those tests it should be just fine regardless of how discolored they are.
I got a used 2022 model 3. I'm still limited to the nag right now although it says FSD Supervised.
You are most likely still on version 12.3.6
@@Morisusi have the 2023 model 3, same thing here still on FSD 12.3.6
It would be so easy for them to add windshield washer sprayers aimed at the cameras that could automatically spray them off after an auto burst of compressed air to blow on them dry ?
i wanna see you driving down 75 and the bridge construction with hurry mode on
Hi Chris do you have rainx in America? It a good water repellent for the windscreen. If you apply it you don't need wipers at a certain speed. It may help
Dude, Rain-X is an American company currently located in Houston, Texas. 😅
@jsjs6751 that's a yes then
I’ve had ZERO safety interventions for the last 3+ months and 99% of my drives are with FSD. ZERO critical interventions. The only times I intervened was when it used to select the wrong lane and would cause 3-5 minute reroute when I was in a hurry. Otherwise, it’s been AMAZING since 12.5. In Northern California, especially if nav is optimized for decreased interventions (ie avoid problem areas like UPS/FedEx already does) many routes are ready for unsupervised FSD - at least in my area.
I would say the only thing stopping it from being perfect on the highway stack Chris is that there’s still instances where you can see clearly above where construction is narrowing the cars to one lane. Or just traffic in general congestion to one lane due to something outside of construction like a cop having a car pulled over or something. FSD still doesn’t recognize the scenarios from my experience on 12.5.6.3. 50% of th Traffic is congested to one lane at least but FSD will still try to pass and get ahead even though you as a human driver can clearly see way up above that everything’s just merging into one lane so that’s the only problems I’ve had but of that yes it’s perfect.
Also agree on the stopping front it doesn’t have the same smoothness as the city stack . This leads questions that there’s two separate stacks happening that are both neural that it’s not one continuous stack.
The cameras will have to self clean, another reason that current Teslas won't be robotaxis , ever.
Why?
I was just wondering because I have never heard that fronted as a reason we won't get robotaxis?
(I would put many other possible reasons above this problem)
That was a good drive, but it wasn’t zero-disengagement. It wanted to turn right when the nav said to go straight at 17:24 and you took over to prevent that.
If you want to see it fail every time, navigate off i94 eastbound toward w michigan ave past S Hewitt St Ypsilanti, it'll stay in the left turning lane and freak out 100% of the time when trying to go straight.
Got it, I'll try to get over there
Once you touch anything even if that’s what fsd is supposed to do it has to be counted as an intervention because in a robotaxi scenario you have no steering wheel or pedals.
Yep, I agree. Without pedals we'd be stuck forever! 😂😜
@ I thought musk said robotaxi was coming in October?!
I’m not saying for you to not tap the pedal when you need to. Just saying you need to count that
Does this version not drift out of the lane like the 12.5.4 versions? I'm on HW3 and I keep having to intervene
Others have said it does for them, but the Y doesn't do that for me. Cybertruck does
Why not just put wiper fluid cleaners on all the cameras to clean with a push of a button? Even set it where software can auto clean if it has issues seeing possible solution?
Appreciate you raising the hardware issues for "driverless". I've been making that argument on other channels that still parrot the talking point that the existing fleet will become driverless taxis with "just a software update". Um, no.
Does FSD not engage until you press the accelerator because the driver is responsible to ensure there is nothing in the front blindspot? There's a reason it backed up 2 feet before it went forward when they first released ASS.
I think the Cybercab is going to be huge but it will also have all hardware it needs to be a driverless taxi.
Seriously, I'm not sending out my Tesla as a driverless taxi if a passenger can brick the car simply by leaving the door open when they exit the car.
The scenarios to try to account for are endless. You have to engineer as many of them out as possible and then you still need a system and logistics to deal with when the car has an issue and needs assistance.
It can see through pretty dirty cameras and work fine. in my short term, they might have to ask the rider to clean them off to continue the ride. Long term I think they will have a solution.
Long term they’ll just add a sprayer nozzle and route some wiper fluid there.
Was that a blinking red at 3:14? 😂
Ha nope yellow
😍
I mean a Cybercab just needs spray nozzles on all cameras - problem solved. :)
dont you feel like the speed profiles are an inappropriate band-aid for a fundamental flaw? you shouldnt need to tell the car to hurry just to hold any speed on any road...
Tbh as long as the car gets me a to b safely and appropriately IDC how Tesla does it
I think when the camera get dirty . The riders should have an option to clean themselves and get the ride for free and a credit for the next one ?
But there will be times no humans are in the car... That's the tough part
This is very weather related and you really don't want to be getting out of your cab to clean the cameras in bad weather. The cams will have to be self cleaning.
That way, everyone would have a spray bottle with ink that they sprayed on the camera lense to get a free ride 😅
@@jsjs6751 😂
Tesla AI is based on vision so Tesla should not go cheap on keeping the cameras clean. Not sure a robotaxi client will be happy to have to clean cameras before each trip or worse in the middle of the trip !
When coming out of parked state, I very much prefer having to give a pedal signal to FSD to confirm that I’m wanting it to go.
Still waiting for v13 😭
Waymo is beating Tesla's butt.
Waymo doesn't enter the highway
OMG I got a forced autopilot disengagement FOR WHAT ? Stops FSD for trip. I have no idea what I did. What a non safety nuisance
Maybe over 85mph? Or looking at phone? There's a few reasons it can happen
I'm wondering why the other legacy car companies don't just buy a part of Tesla, by investing billions in TSLA, instead of wasting billions trying to build their own EVs that are not profitable. If they invested $50 billion in TSLA stock, (approximately 5% of Tesla's current valuation), they would make a lot more money than wasting $50 billion trying to build EV batteries, better software, better EV designs, safer EVs, 48 volt tech, FSD, steer by wire tech, autonomous EVs, etc. That maybe the only way for the non Tesla legacy automakers to avoid bankruptcy.
I hope you are joking lol
…and you wonder why people think Tesla fanboys are insufferable. This entire comment has to be a joke.
True but the legacy car companies are run by people who care more about the short term and their own careers than the long term future of the company or society at large.
When I read this kind of comments, I begin to suspect that TSLA may have reached a top.
“Better EV designs” Purely subjective. I find Teslas to be bland, over-simplified, and stale. “Steer by wire tech” Not everyone wants that. I personally dislike the feeling of steer by wire. “48 volt tech” Other automakers (Hyundai/Kia for example) have this as well. “Autonomous EVs” The majority of the population still prefer to drive rather to be driven by a robot due to the unpredictability that FSD still has.
EDIT: Also people dislike Elon.