Your videos are becoming clearer and clearer, not just in presentation, but your speaking voice as well. Fantastic job! You seem a lot more comfortable in front of the microphone now than a year ago.
+gaijin hunter please do more videos about numbers, damage calculations etc in monster hunter, i'm pretty sure a lot of people don't know some of these things.
+oldcowbb The one time we'll actually use these formulas in our everyday lives. THANKS SCHOOL! FTR, I know school is important, but they really should have figured out an effective way to teach kids at their least caring and attentive stage of life about the important things for functioning effectively in society, and let them learn the harder stuff such as advanced mathematics and sciences that they won't use everyday at a time when they know that's what they want to do with their lives so it would actually serve a purpose in the lives of only the people who need it and not just be unnecessary stress for young kids who will never see the equations again, ever. The scary part, for those who have yet to encounter them, the equations in this video are easy. It's pretty simple logic that just looks confusing on paper, it gets way worse in future classes and just causes unnecessary stress and problems for the kids who have to devote the entire younger part of their lives to learning them and which their whole future revolves around thanks to grades being such a necessity for colleges. There has to be a simpler way and it's shocking that we haven't figured it out yet.
+David Bruder I agree. As some one who's always loved problem solving, math has never been a problem. This means i'm always looking at the details of numbers and values and can calculate math problems extremely quickly. But, my math grades grew poorer as I got older as the classes became duller and duller. To make it worse school did not prepare me to deal with taxes, bills, insurance, and all of the things I have to constantly deal with as an adult. It makes me wonder why did i spend 12+ years of my life learning nothing about living, if when it came time to it I learned more from playing games due to there mixing and mimicking of real life allow slow but interesting learning.
I've known for a long time that bounced attacks don't reduced damage and I knew about sharpness affecting the weakness of monsters and thus being a factor in whether you bounce or not, but I didn't know the exact method for calculation, so thanks Gaijin.
Well, technically there were people before 3U trying to bring this to peoples attention, though you are right that several others also deserve thanks for striking this myth down.
love your videos man!!! Keep the great job!!! i always come back to your channel to check the old "tutorial" for the weapons. I'm still playing 4U and they are really usefull when i'm tired and want something new (new weapon).
amazing video, this was like mythbusters :D, good job. i had my doubts, i never go for bounce, but one time i defeated a basarios with a GS and i was just bouncing like crazy, and it didnt take me that long to defeat it, as you said, the big problem is DPS.
+I'm a Martian from Mars I know how I went savage on a G-Rank Silver Rathalos with blue sharpness and a Switch Axe. I was attacking his back and near death (first though, but I wanted the money) until I eventually broke his back and killed him! Less DPS, but the attacks looked much more intense in the situation
RIP to my beliefs from the last 10 years. I've also believed for just as long that bouncing was not dependent on hitzone values, and were a separate piece of data linked to each part. I only just learned about it yesterday from a fellow on reddit posting HZ values from 18-30 and their corresponding sharpness required depending on quest rank.. I think the "Just focus more on their weaker parts, and you don't need to know what sharpness level you need" is fine, but this info would be good to know, especially for people planning on which weapon to use when facing a Gravios or trying to break a monster's particular part. Thanks to all of your contributions to the MH community over the years!
If I can clear up some of the misinformation, back in first and second gen when the damage formula was made there was (and still is) something called a low sharpness correction value. When at yellow sharpness and below, some attacks would do half damage and bounce attacks will do 70% reduced damage. This only applied to yellow and below, but people misinterpreted the low sharpness bounce modifier and thought it applied to all bounces. I'm fairly certain this is where the myth of bounce damage reduction came from.
+Adrien Depindray New Event got announced! Monster Hunter X Maths! It gives you Test sheets to craft the Pen & Test Sheet SnS as well as the Student Uniform. I would laugh if this would actually be a thing... on the other hand we got a plunger and a toilet seat for Lance so its not too far off I guess :P
It's kinda weird how I knew this was the case without the need of dmg formulas. I remember tweeting you about it and felt it was this way. I guess it's one of those "feelings" veterans get when they've hunted for so long that they notice these small things on the back of their heads. Motion value might apply though if you keep hitting with the weapon after the first bounce since it's no longer the full draw swing IF the weapon allows continuous attacks after first bounce like the GS does. Anyhow I'm glad you made the effort to prove this.
I love how your videos have developed over time and how the content just keeps getting better and better! I love watching them and it's because of these videos that I'm able to better understand and play Monster Hunter as a new comer to the series in 4U. Thanks for all your help!
I think the people online are saying that you shouldn't attack a bouncing part because it indicates that you are only doing 25% or less damage to that part while attacking the head for example does 50% or more damage because it is a weakspot for most monsters. Even with white sharpness you are only doing 30% damage which is very small compared to other parts of the monster
Hard to believe people didn't know this has been the case for a while. I realized this once I fought Silver Rathalos for the first time (in 3U) because I used a hammer. As we all know, his head is hard as hell until you break it, but I realized even if my attacks bounced, versus when I used Mind's Eye, it still took the same amount of hits. The only thing bounce hits do is lower DPS through that horrendously long animation. Not lowering your weapon's literal damage.
Nice, this is super useful for a build I'm trying to do in MHGU (that, implying this data from Gen is still valid in GU). I'm thinking it would be effective to have Bludgeoner and Mind's Eye on a Valstrax weapon, damage would be almost the same (if not higher) once it goes all the way down to red
This was a fantastic video, and the bit about the weakness of a part determining whether you bounce or not was interesting. However, one thing about that bothers me. At least in MH4U and older games, Deviljho's belly was easy to bounce off of when it was enraged despite the fact that it was it's biggest weakpoint, so it should normally be quite easy to penetrate even with a decent level of sharpness. Does this mean that the 25% mark for bouncing is only present in MHX?
Great video Gaijin! Are you planning on doing a video that shows off good armor sets for a particular weapon? I feel like that would help us non Japanese fans decide on an armor set when we can't read the skills.
Bouncing still indicates that the part you are hitting has a low weakness value, so if you can't break it or breaking it doesn't increase its weakness value, it's still best to stay away. One thing I'm also concerned about is that I have noticed that different weapons sometimes bounce off certain parts while others don't. For example while fight teostra or kushala daora, I often find that with longer weapons like longsword and greatsword, I bounce off when I accidentally hit the wings while doing a downward wing to the monster's side. However, when the monster has been tripped and I attack the wings with an sns, I don't bounce, even though I have the same sharpness as the longsword/greatsword weapons. You talked about the sharpness modifier the GS gest when hitting with the centre of the blade, but are there other sharpness modifiers unique to weapon classes? Another thing I'm curios about is what buffs are placed onto the sharpness multiplier. I know that the demon s shot in most light bowguns' internal ammo have part of that buff applied to the sharpness modifier of those affected, making them bounce less; but are there any other buffs that have that affect?
Just an FYI, the damage calculation is EXACTLY THE SAME whether or not you apply the sharpness to the MV, Monster Weak point or any other part of the equation. Gaijin notes it's "pretty much the same" but in terms of math and algebra, it's exactly the same. Case in point at 3:50, it's not "generally the same" it's going to be the same number for damage. Just thought that should be clarified. Great video and amazing information as always though! Just makes the engineer in me cringe whenever it's claimed that it's "pretty much the same" LOL
Mate, this vid was 4 years ago. Also pretty much the same is pretty much the same as exactly the same, so chill. As an engineer, I'd expect you would mind the approximation, lol
I have a questionabou the greatdword. You dont get the 5% sharpness mulitplier if you hut the monster with the tip. Butdoes the "center" of the blade goall the way down to the handle?
I see the sharpness of a weapon chart shows three different bars for the same weapon. Some bars shows more white then others, how can I get the max potential to have that white once fully upgraded?
Add in Mind's Eye or aerial style to get rid of bouncing and all of a sudden green sharpness (provided it still has a high enough raw to make up for the low modifier, I.E. Akantor weapons) is viable in Gen. Sharpness + 2, Blunt, Mind's Eye and Critical Eye with a final form Akantor Greatsword would be godlike.
+Mochi Man Sharpness+2 gives you more Sharpness and potentially allows you to go to the next tier of Sharpness levels. Mind's Eye causes you to not bounce when hitting a spot you would normally bounce from. If you want more DPS, Sharpness+2 is the way to go if its that vs Mind's Eye. Either way if you are bouncing off of a specific part you generally shouldn't be attacking there unless you want a specific break, so unless you want a specific part break that you bounce off of Minds Eye is fairly useless for the most part.
+InstaCakes Oh yea, Mind's Eye definitely has its uses, just that on pretty much every monster there will always be a spot you can strike where you wont bounce (Even if you are on Green, you generally should never be on Yellow) allowing you to get a higher dps. I forgot about Blunt Benefit for my original post but I read somewhere that it works best at Green sharpness, so it still stands that you will usually have a spot to attack without bouncing. I'm not 100% sure on that though so apologies if I am wrong.
this brings up another question. does shot dammage followed by a bow's slash cut a tail? can you just wrack up shot damage and then run in for a quick finally slash?
Thx for letting us know gaijin^^ I'm a great user of the blunt benefit and fencing combo with like the akantor weapons .good to know that it deals the dmg and with fencing u can combo all the way through too so great job.
My god, this is some true scientific method stuff. It's impressive, because even though this seems like some simple task, the control case, careful observations, the math...everything was good. And hey, the result is pretty good too, if it forces a bit of new thinking on bouncing attacks.
You mention at about 1:40 that Greatswords have a sharpness modifier. Do all weapons have a sharpness modifier depending on where you hit with them? If so do you know where it is for Dualblades? I've been doing some sharpness tests based on some information I came across and potentially getting an extra 5% sharpness modifier has gotten to the point that it would completely change the results of my testing. Edit: Further testing has found out that Dualblades do indeed have this same sharpness modifier. You get it when you use X attacks and don't get it when you use A attacks, I imagine XA attacks also get it but since those generally require demon/archdemon mode it's hard to test since I believe those forms inherently do not bounce.
This is exactly the sort of experiment I thought of when I first learned about the debate but since I wasn't a UA-camr I couldn't share the test results. I'm glad someone else got around to it. Keep up the great work!
so the greatsword 1.3x sharpness modifier on the level 3 charge doesn't translate to "free 30% damage" and more like 6-8% actual damage ? the 1.3x sharpness modifier is mostly in place so you don't bounce off?
Good job on the video, now one less question that will be asked constantly. Although now I'm curious, with sharpness actually modifying hit zone, does that affect how tenderizer work?
Quick off-topic question, I just started playing (my definition of just started is total hours between 50-70 hours xD) and I need bealite ore for a ton of equipment. I'm still in low-rank village (5★) and I can't find a reliable source on where to get bealite ore.
I just wanted to add to your final thoughts... This also means that with the combination of mind's eye, you will not bounce and do full damage. Thanks Gaijin Hunter! You are the best!
Wow, so does this mean that Akantor weapons are actually good with minds eye or is the sharpness modifier still a major drawback compared to other weapons (for raw dmg)?
+SendU2Hell akantor weapons have huge raw+affinity, but the bouncing usually makes them unstable to use and usually easily outperformed by other weapons.but due to their high affinity, every raw atk boost gets them an even greaterboost than most other weapons.with the new skill that increases raw damage as your sharpness goes down akantor weapon get even more of a boost because that also is a raw damage boost and its easy to get
So I'm assuming that the same will apply to Mind's Eye, since all it does is prevent the actual bounce animation? Maybe a quick test will be required, but that means I can go in with an Akantor Switch Axe in sword mode and autopilot without fear now =D
Hey Gaijin, if sharpness affects the hitzone percentage then it relates with Weakness Exploit? Taking Rathian's neck, which is a hitzone of 40, multiplied by green sharpness (1.05) it results on 42, but with blue sharpness (1.20) you get 48, which would trigger WE, isn't? I'd really like to confirm this, since from now on I'll be more careful while hunting with WE.
Ok, so if i have Mind's eye active (armor skill or for example the LS spirit combo) the only negative impact is that the weapon uses up more sharpness?
Blunt Power would make you stronger, when in conjunction with mind's eye and a high raw low sharpness weapon like Akantor, you can deal as much damage as a sharpness plus 1 or 2 regular weapon.
Nice video, Gaijin Hunter! Over in reddit we have a discussion about the damage at lower sharpness with the blunt weapon skill, and one thing that is still not 100% sure is yellow sharpness and blunt weapon skill. This video only proofs that at green sharpness even with bouncing the damage is still the same, and with fencing and blunt skill you get the power we calculated. Do you guys know/havealready have tested how it looks with yellow sharpness?
So i had a question (for MH4U). I always assumed that no matter what weapon of the same class you used the hurt boxes for animations would be the same, but recently i completed the lunatic rose SNS and the model is of a far longer sword than normal, and after using it a bit i felt like the actual reach of the sword was longer than my others. I've noticed something similar with DB like the magala DB. Is this a real interaction or am i imagining things?
I remember playing Freedom unite with the HP display cheat, and when my LS bounced off with the first basarios, it did only 1 damage. Maybe this is something they changed in the latest games.
The bounce still does less damage simply because it interrupts combos and it leaves you open (you said as much towards the beginning of the video) it is good to know that I can forget whetstones and not be totally screwed but I'll stick to sharpening when I can lol
Hi GaijinHunter, this was a really great proofing video, busted the myth in my heart for so many years. So that means investing in green sharpness + bludgeoner + mind's eye is a great idea as well, although I still hear the bounce sound, but still delivers the required damage right?
Wouldn't it be more fair to say that bouncing doesn't reduce damage by itself but because bouncing is also calculated by hitzone as well as sharpness, it is a strong indicator of where you shouldn't be attacking because you are actually doing less damage than if you were to hit a non-bouncing hitzone?
So this implies even more usage out of Mind's Eye Akantor or gradually blunting Sword Mode Switchaxe. Granted bouncing should still be avoided at least now it's not exactly as damning that one time every purple moon you forget to restock on whetstones. Thank you kindly good sir!
"Sharpness modifiers apply to the monster part weakness, not the weapon's attack." *In **_that_** section of the equation.* This is the only misleading note of this tutorial, remember that, kiddos-!! Sharpness is used in a variety of different equations as well.
Okay good to know I am guessing this also applies to the Monsters in Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate as well as I have noticed bouncing when I fight monsters like Najarala and Gravios.
Well, in a way you DO less damage, because you won't make combos after a bounce AND you'll lose sharpness faster, so basically less power because of Sharpness modifier's decrease
And you'll do LESS dmg THAN hitting a weak point or a part where you don't bounce off, so that's why you'll better hit somewhere else, even if you have Mind's Eye (I know that i'm being obvious but, y'know, writing this thing never hurts anyone :] )
Well with greatsword, your bounce attack speed is only slightly slower than normal attacks that cut. However its still better to avoid bouncing multiple times due to how it blunts your weapon. But if you bouncing on green and your gonna take a hit, ie you know you can't roll out in time, but have time to get in two more hits, you might as well ha ha.
How does this work on Stun damage modifiers? because on MH4U, Diablos kept making my hammer bounce and i don't know if it affects the stun damage on its head. I pretty much stopped bringing hammer against Diablos because of of the bounce. Does it take longer to stun if you bounce off the head?
Well this is definitely good news for MHX. I wasn't sure if Blunt Weapon + Mind's Eye would be a good combination since I didn't know if bouncing reduced the amount of damage you do.
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Shortstop](/img/n.gif)
Your videos are becoming clearer and clearer, not just in presentation, but your speaking voice as well. Fantastic job! You seem a lot more comfortable in front of the microphone now than a year ago.
+Drukzul Gerrek I do feel like I am improving a lot. Thanks for the vote of confidence ^^
+gaijin hunter 2legit2quit \'w'/
+gaijin hunter
can we say this applies for all games? because I'm fighting gravios on Monster Hunter Freedom 2 and.... yeahhh lol
+gaijin hunter please do more videos about numbers, damage calculations etc in monster hunter, i'm pretty sure a lot of people don't know some of these things.
+Hugo Sha Yes that would be Awesome
when MH is harder than my physics class
At least we have sonething we enjoy to apply these calculations to >.
guess what, i enjoy both
I SWEAR XDD
+oldcowbb The one time we'll actually use these formulas in our everyday lives. THANKS SCHOOL!
FTR, I know school is important, but they really should have figured out an effective way to teach kids at their least caring and attentive stage of life about the important things for functioning effectively in society, and let them learn the harder stuff such as advanced mathematics and sciences that they won't use everyday at a time when they know that's what they want to do with their lives so it would actually serve a purpose in the lives of only the people who need it and not just be unnecessary stress for young kids who will never see the equations again, ever. The scary part, for those who have yet to encounter them, the equations in this video are easy. It's pretty simple logic that just looks confusing on paper, it gets way worse in future classes and just causes unnecessary stress and problems for the kids who have to devote the entire younger part of their lives to learning them and which their whole future revolves around thanks to grades being such a necessity for colleges. There has to be a simpler way and it's shocking that we haven't figured it out yet.
+David Bruder I agree. As some one who's always loved problem solving, math has never been a problem. This means i'm always looking at the details of numbers and values and can calculate math problems extremely quickly. But, my math grades grew poorer as I got older as the classes became duller and duller.
To make it worse school did not prepare me to deal with taxes, bills, insurance, and all of the things I have to constantly deal with as an adult. It makes me wonder why did i spend 12+ years of my life learning nothing about living, if when it came time to it I learned more from playing games due to there mixing and mimicking of real life allow slow but interesting learning.
This is a very well thought out and polished video dude, you've come a long way in your content production. Great video :)
Thank you!
I thought nothing will be harder than what was shown in the Apex Rajang video, but here is math.
awesome vid! not even just about the bounce attacks. learned alot about some more mechanics of this game. thanks aevanko-sama
I've known for a long time that bounced attacks don't reduced damage and I knew about sharpness affecting the weakness of monsters and thus being a factor in whether you bounce or not, but I didn't know the exact method for calculation, so thanks Gaijin.
Well, technically there were people before 3U trying to bring this to peoples attention, though you are right that several others also deserve thanks for striking this myth down.
love your videos man!!! Keep the great job!!! i always come back to your channel to check the old "tutorial" for the weapons. I'm still playing 4U and they are really usefull when i'm tired and want something new (new weapon).
amazing video, this was like mythbusters :D, good job.
i had my doubts, i never go for bounce, but one time i defeated a basarios with a GS and i was just bouncing like crazy, and it didnt take me that long to defeat it, as you said, the big problem is DPS.
+I'm a Martian from Mars I know how I went savage on a G-Rank Silver Rathalos with blue sharpness and a Switch Axe. I was attacking his back and near death (first though, but I wanted the money) until I eventually broke his back and killed him!
Less DPS, but the attacks looked much more intense in the situation
RIP to my beliefs from the last 10 years.
I've also believed for just as long that bouncing was not dependent on hitzone values, and were a separate piece of data linked to each part. I only just learned about it yesterday from a fellow on reddit posting HZ values from 18-30 and their corresponding sharpness required depending on quest rank..
I think the "Just focus more on their weaker parts, and you don't need to know what sharpness level you need" is fine, but this info would be good to know, especially for people planning on which weapon to use when facing a Gravios or trying to break a monster's particular part.
Thanks to all of your contributions to the MH community over the years!
If I can clear up some of the misinformation, back in first and second gen when the damage formula was made there was (and still is) something called a low sharpness correction value. When at yellow sharpness and below, some attacks would do half damage and bounce attacks will do 70% reduced damage. This only applied to yellow and below, but people misinterpreted the low sharpness bounce modifier and thought it applied to all bounces. I'm fairly certain this is where the myth of bounce damage reduction came from.
Awesome video.
10/10
You put a lot of effort into it ;D
Surprising! Bouncing feels like doing zero damage.
MYTH BUSTED
this video is probably your most professional to date. great work, great research. props to you.
MHX : Maths 'n' Hunters X
lol
+Adrien Depindray New Event got announced!
Monster Hunter X Maths! It gives you Test sheets to craft the Pen & Test Sheet SnS as well as the Student Uniform.
I would laugh if this would actually be a thing... on the other hand we got a plunger and a toilet seat for Lance so its not too far off I guess :P
+Random Sm4sh clips Haha , well , I bet that I'll happen one day , it is a nice concept ;)
yep starts at 60 raw and deals water damage if I remember correctly. Its almost available from start. Its fun to kill monsters with that thing XD
yes
It's kinda weird how I knew this was the case without the need of dmg formulas. I remember tweeting you about it and felt it was this way. I guess it's one of those "feelings" veterans get when they've hunted for so long that they notice these small things on the back of their heads.
Motion value might apply though if you keep hitting with the weapon after the first bounce since it's no longer the full draw swing IF the weapon allows continuous attacks after first bounce like the GS does.
Anyhow I'm glad you made the effort to prove this.
I love how your videos have developed over time and how the content just keeps getting better and better! I love watching them and it's because of these videos that I'm able to better understand and play Monster Hunter as a new comer to the series in 4U. Thanks for all your help!
Thanks for the hard work! I can only imagine the trouble setting this all up.
There was smoke coming out of the top of my head after comprehending all of this.
Here I thought that catching Pokemon was complex.
So, you don't do less damage because you bounce, you bounce because you're doing low damage.
I think the people online are saying that you shouldn't attack a bouncing part because it indicates that you are only doing 25% or less damage to that part while attacking the head for example does 50% or more damage because it is a weakspot for most monsters.
Even with white sharpness you are only doing 30% damage which is very small compared to other parts of the monster
THANK YOU! Awesome as Always! Great Job GaijinH!
I always thought people meant you do less DPs because of the animation, not actual damage. Great you cleared that up for everyone though! :P
Thank you for your research.
this makes mind's eye and steady hand much more powerful
Hard to believe people didn't know this has been the case for a while. I realized this once I fought Silver Rathalos for the first time (in 3U) because I used a hammer. As we all know, his head is hard as hell until you break it, but I realized even if my attacks bounced, versus when I used Mind's Eye, it still took the same amount of hits.
The only thing bounce hits do is lower DPS through that horrendously long animation. Not lowering your weapon's literal damage.
Nice, this is super useful for a build I'm trying to do in MHGU (that, implying this data from Gen is still valid in GU). I'm thinking it would be effective to have Bludgeoner and Mind's Eye on a Valstrax weapon, damage would be almost the same (if not higher) once it goes all the way down to red
This was a fantastic video, and the bit about the weakness of a part determining whether you bounce or not was interesting. However, one thing about that bothers me. At least in MH4U and older games, Deviljho's belly was easy to bounce off of when it was enraged despite the fact that it was it's biggest weakpoint, so it should normally be quite easy to penetrate even with a decent level of sharpness. Does this mean that the 25% mark for bouncing is only present in MHX?
Great video Gaijin! Are you planning on doing a video that shows off good armor sets for a particular weapon? I feel like that would help us non Japanese fans decide on an armor set when we can't read the skills.
Bouncing still indicates that the part you are hitting has a low weakness value, so if you can't break it or breaking it doesn't increase its weakness value, it's still best to stay away. One thing I'm also concerned about is that I have noticed that different weapons sometimes bounce off certain parts while others don't. For example while fight teostra or kushala daora, I often find that with longer weapons like longsword and greatsword, I bounce off when I accidentally hit the wings while doing a downward wing to the monster's side. However, when the monster has been tripped and I attack the wings with an sns, I don't bounce, even though I have the same sharpness as the longsword/greatsword weapons. You talked about the sharpness modifier the GS gest when hitting with the centre of the blade, but are there other sharpness modifiers unique to weapon classes? Another thing I'm curios about is what buffs are placed onto the sharpness multiplier. I know that the demon s shot in most light bowguns' internal ammo have part of that buff applied to the sharpness modifier of those affected, making them bounce less; but are there any other buffs that have that affect?
Mind's Eye became sooo much better in my eyes...
Really useful information as always Gaijin!
Now I like my Akantor CB even more.
Excellent video, gaijinhunter. Thank you for doing what you do!
Just an FYI, the damage calculation is EXACTLY THE SAME whether or not you apply the sharpness to the MV, Monster Weak point or any other part of the equation. Gaijin notes it's "pretty much the same" but in terms of math and algebra, it's exactly the same. Case in point at 3:50, it's not "generally the same" it's going to be the same number for damage. Just thought that should be clarified.
Great video and amazing information as always though! Just makes the engineer in me cringe whenever it's claimed that it's "pretty much the same" LOL
Mate, this vid was 4 years ago. Also pretty much the same is pretty much the same as exactly the same, so chill. As an engineer, I'd expect you would mind the approximation, lol
I have a questionabou the greatdword. You dont get the 5% sharpness mulitplier if you hut the monster with the tip. Butdoes the "center" of the blade goall the way down to the handle?
I see the sharpness of a weapon chart shows three different bars for the same weapon. Some bars shows more white then others, how can I get the max potential to have that white once fully upgraded?
Thank you for your content, I think it is very informative and well presented.
Add in Mind's Eye or aerial style to get rid of bouncing and all of a sudden green sharpness (provided it still has a high enough raw to make up for the low modifier, I.E. Akantor weapons) is viable in Gen. Sharpness + 2, Blunt, Mind's Eye and Critical Eye with a final form Akantor Greatsword would be godlike.
This was really interesting! Nice work there dude!
Has anyone looked at the DPS of hammers' A or X attacks when bouncing repeatedly?
Holy cow this changes a lot of things.
wanna tie that in with Sharpness +2 vs Mind's Eye?
+Mochi Man
Sharpness+2 gives you more Sharpness and potentially allows you to go to the next tier of Sharpness levels. Mind's Eye causes you to not bounce when hitting a spot you would normally bounce from. If you want more DPS, Sharpness+2 is the way to go if its that vs Mind's Eye.
Either way if you are bouncing off of a specific part you generally shouldn't be attacking there unless you want a specific break, so unless you want a specific part break that you bounce off of Minds Eye is fairly useless for the most part.
+InstaCakes
Oh yea, Mind's Eye definitely has its uses, just that on pretty much every monster there will always be a spot you can strike where you wont bounce (Even if you are on Green, you generally should never be on Yellow) allowing you to get a higher dps.
I forgot about Blunt Benefit for my original post but I read somewhere that it works best at Green sharpness, so it still stands that you will usually have a spot to attack without bouncing. I'm not 100% sure on that though so apologies if I am wrong.
i always just go with sharpness +1 in the old games
*****
S+1 is 99% of the time the better skill to go for, it might even boost your sharpness so you don't need Mind's Eye for those specific spots
Veistrana i usually do that
this brings up another question. does shot dammage followed by a bow's slash cut a tail? can you just wrack up shot damage and then run in for a quick finally slash?
Thx for letting us know gaijin^^ I'm a great user of the blunt benefit and fencing combo with like the akantor weapons .good to know that it deals the dmg and with fencing u can combo all the way through too so great job.
My god, this is some true scientific method stuff. It's impressive, because even though this seems like some simple task, the control case, careful observations, the math...everything was good.
And hey, the result is pretty good too, if it forces a bit of new thinking on bouncing attacks.
You mention at about 1:40 that Greatswords have a sharpness modifier. Do all weapons have a sharpness modifier depending on where you hit with them? If so do you know where it is for Dualblades? I've been doing some sharpness tests based on some information I came across and potentially getting an extra 5% sharpness modifier has gotten to the point that it would completely change the results of my testing.
Edit: Further testing has found out that Dualblades do indeed have this same sharpness modifier. You get it when you use X attacks and don't get it when you use A attacks, I imagine XA attacks also get it but since those generally require demon/archdemon mode it's hard to test since I believe those forms inherently do not bounce.
I figured out that bouncing had to do more with sharpness when I saw the feline deflector perk (reduces sharpness loss on bounced attack.
2:39 Wait what does this mean?
This is exactly the sort of experiment I thought of when I first learned about the debate but since I wasn't a UA-camr I couldn't share the test results. I'm glad someone else got around to it. Keep up the great work!
Thanks. I always wanted to know this. Really helpful
So..... what about the bounce of mind's eye? I notice there isn't blood slushing.
Awesome video. You sound more comfortable talking in your videos now.
but what about elemental sharpness modifier, does it stack or does only the greater value get used
so the greatsword 1.3x sharpness modifier on the level 3 charge doesn't translate to "free 30% damage" and more like 6-8% actual damage ? the 1.3x sharpness modifier is mostly in place so you don't bounce off?
when i go to blue i always bounce from a DK rathalos's leg but i keep on hitting it because i thought it was like that.
What was the background music
I love this cover from Pokke Village in the background ! Who is it from, anyone knows ?
It's from the MHX soundtrack :)
be my guess if you're fighting with edge lore. but i'm not sure if i wanna attack Rajang's sexy rock hard arm and open up for it's attack.
Such a fantastic infodump. Loved it.
Good job on the video, now one less question that will be asked constantly.
Although now I'm curious, with sharpness actually modifying hit zone, does that affect how tenderizer work?
Quick off-topic question, I just started playing (my definition of just started is total hours between 50-70 hours xD) and I need bealite ore for a ton of equipment. I'm still in low-rank village (5★) and I can't find a reliable source on where to get bealite ore.
I just wanted to add to your final thoughts... This also means that with the combination of mind's eye, you will not bounce and do full damage. Thanks Gaijin Hunter! You are the best!
Wow, so does this mean that Akantor weapons are actually good with minds eye or is the sharpness modifier still a major drawback compared to other weapons (for raw dmg)?
+ChazzDex the yellow low sharpness modifier is horrid. Use akantor with sharpness;1 or 2, anything to get it to green. At green they are great.
+gaijin hunter are you shure? I dont think the 0.05% on part dmg is worth this mutch, or am i missing something?
+SendU2Hell akantor weapons have huge raw+affinity, but the bouncing usually makes them unstable to use and usually easily outperformed by other weapons.but due to their high affinity, every raw atk boost gets them an even greaterboost than most other weapons.with the new skill that increases raw damage as your sharpness goes down akantor weapon get even more of a boost because that also is a raw damage boost and its easy to get
did mhx change the attack values? used to be a hidden modifier for each type
What about bouncing of Apex monsters ? Does it still inflict the same amount of damages ?
No apex monsters here
I was talking about MH4U duh
That's so logically true Gaijin-san. Btw i really like the background music lol
So I'm assuming that the same will apply to Mind's Eye, since all it does is prevent the actual bounce animation? Maybe a quick test will be required, but that means I can go in with an Akantor Switch Axe in sword mode and autopilot without fear now =D
What if you slot in fencing?
How about reflected shot damages, especially in apex hunts (gunners) ? does it mean no damage dealt at all?
any idea what the names of the songs are?
Hey Gaijin, if sharpness affects the hitzone percentage then it relates with Weakness Exploit? Taking Rathian's neck, which is a hitzone of 40, multiplied by green sharpness (1.05) it results on 42, but with blue sharpness (1.20) you get 48, which would trigger WE, isn't? I'd really like to confirm this, since from now on I'll be more careful while hunting with WE.
Thanx i found Out a few dass ago and now i know It in Detail.
Ok, so if i have Mind's eye active (armor skill or for example the LS spirit combo) the only negative impact is that the weapon uses up more sharpness?
What if one were to factor in the Blunt Power skill?
Blunt Power would make you stronger, when in conjunction with mind's eye and a high raw low sharpness weapon like Akantor, you can deal as much damage as a sharpness plus 1 or 2 regular weapon.
Nice video, Gaijin Hunter!
Over in reddit we have a discussion about the damage at lower sharpness with the blunt weapon skill, and one thing that is still not 100% sure is yellow sharpness and blunt weapon skill. This video only proofs that at green sharpness even with bouncing the damage is still the same, and with fencing and blunt skill you get the power we calculated. Do you guys know/havealready have tested how it looks with yellow sharpness?
+Quait Gore yellow is horrid due to a different modifier, i plan to do a video. Never use blunt with yellow only green
So i had a question (for MH4U). I always assumed that no matter what weapon of the same class you used the hurt boxes for animations would be the same, but recently i completed the lunatic rose SNS and the model is of a far longer sword than normal, and after using it a bit i felt like the actual reach of the sword was longer than my others. I've noticed something similar with DB like the magala DB. Is this a real interaction or am i imagining things?
I remember playing Freedom unite with the HP display cheat, and when my LS bounced off with the first basarios, it did only 1 damage. Maybe this is something they changed in the latest games.
Gaijin is plain wrong your right
The bounce still does less damage simply because it interrupts combos and it leaves you open (you said as much towards the beginning of the video) it is good to know that I can forget whetstones and not be totally screwed but I'll stick to sharpening when I can lol
Can you also do the test in 4U/4G? It's possible that in X Capcom could have removed the lowered damage.
+ATJamin no it's the same in 3U, 4U, etc.
+ATJamin it is this way since MH1 (i cant speak for the original japanese one but for the western release it was that way)
As a hunting horn main, I forget this mechanic exists.
Hi GaijinHunter, this was a really great proofing video, busted the myth in my heart for so many years. So that means investing in green sharpness + bludgeoner + mind's eye is a great idea as well, although I still hear the bounce sound, but still delivers the required damage right?
you can bounce "combo" with GS and most weapons just mash x and you will attack repeatedly (not a combo move but you get the point)
Wouldn't it be more fair to say that bouncing doesn't reduce damage by itself but because bouncing is also calculated by hitzone as well as sharpness, it is a strong indicator of where you shouldn't be attacking because you are actually doing less damage than if you were to hit a non-bouncing hitzone?
Thanks man! Also just got my import a few weeks ago. ITS AWESOME!!! I would like to play with ya someday! Just know that I only got a few hours XD
So this implies even more usage out of Mind's Eye Akantor or gradually blunting Sword Mode Switchaxe. Granted bouncing should still be avoided at least now it's not exactly as damning that one time every purple moon you forget to restock on whetstones.
Thank you kindly good sir!
"Sharpness modifiers apply to the monster part weakness, not the weapon's attack."
*In **_that_** section of the equation.*
This is the only misleading note of this tutorial, remember that, kiddos-!!
Sharpness is used in a variety of different equations as well.
but don't you have to also take in account the reduction of damage dealt to the monster in low and high rank?
So is this the case for 4U as well?
Also, can you still cut tails if your bladed weapon bounces? (Silver Rathalos' tail bounces with blue sharpness.)
does the center of the ls also have 5% increase attack?
You gain a +5% Sharpness modifier with the lowest part of the blade, near the hilt, instead of the center
Best video ever. Thank you
Isn't there a difference in Part Breaking damage and actual damage?
+UnableToFindName there is. some skills increase the part break damage but doesnt affect overall actual damage you do
+gaijin hunter Thank you!
"how many slashes does it take to get to the center of a Daimyo Hermitaur?"
"Let us see. A-one, a-two, a-three, a-fore..."
thanks for that man.. your the best..
you're*
oh my bad.. thanks for correcting me dude.. you're a saint..
goku noriel I'm sorry,I had to
lol.. it's fine dude..
Does this apply to 4u too or is it just generations?
Awesome video. Very educational, well done :] very helpful
Okay good to know I am guessing this also applies to the Monsters in Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate as well as I have noticed bouncing when I fight monsters like Najarala and Gravios.
Well, in a way you DO less damage, because you won't make combos after a bounce AND you'll lose sharpness faster, so basically less power because of Sharpness modifier's decrease
Plus, under yellow sharpness, you'll get a negative Sharpness modifier
And you'll do LESS dmg THAN hitting a weak point or a part where you don't bounce off, so that's why you'll better hit somewhere else, even if you have Mind's Eye (I know that i'm being obvious but, y'know, writing this thing never hurts anyone :] )
JackXTreme28 Unless you are willing to sharpen your weapon more often, but otherwise, I do agree with you on every other point :) .
Well with greatsword, your bounce attack speed is only slightly slower than normal attacks that cut. However its still better to avoid bouncing multiple times due to how it blunts your weapon. But if you bouncing on green and your gonna take a hit, ie you know you can't roll out in time, but have time to get in two more hits, you might as well ha ha.
How does this work on Stun damage modifiers? because on MH4U, Diablos kept making my hammer bounce and i don't know if it affects the stun damage on its head. I pretty much stopped bringing hammer against Diablos because of of the bounce. Does it take longer to stun if you bounce off the head?
Hey man, great video! Btw, what is the bg music that was playing during your video?
Well this is definitely good news for MHX. I wasn't sure if Blunt Weapon + Mind's Eye would be a good combination since I didn't know if bouncing reduced the amount of damage you do.