THE ultimate VESPA MALOSSI sport 210 pnp TUNING GUIDE | FMP-Solid PASSion |
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- the todos if you want to plug and play = exchange your original cyl with a TUNING CYLINDER. see a p200e getting the best 200ccm touring cylinder kit the malossi sport 210, a simple plug and play tuning with 1) cylinder and 2) probably the best box exhaust right now: the polini box and of course 3) strengthening the clutch with a TENINCH cnc basket for 7 spring px old clutch and state of the art HONDA linings. self explaining checking 4) fuel supply: fast flow tap and widening the drill below the main jet from 1,5mm to 2,5mm. there is no need to change to a si25/26 u wouldnt feel any difference.
at the end the summary how much faults i found during the works. the scooter was sold by a vespa shop.
2018 latest testride with pnp tuningbstage: • vespa malossi SPORT 21...
next tuning stage 60mm stroke:
• vespa tuning: MALOSSI ...
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like what u see? u can support FMP via patreon:
/ freakmoped
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DISCLAIMER: the information shown in this video, is about THIS specific hardware. it is my personal observation documented with this video. It DOESNT automatically mean, that all such parts by this producer or seller do have or will have same issues.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
like what u see? u can support FMP via patreon:
/ freakmoped
_____________________________________________
DISCLAIMER: the information shown in this video, is about THIS specific hardware. it is my personal observation documented with this video. It DOESNT automatically mean, that all such parts by this producer or seller do have or will have same issues.
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FOLLOW me on
insta: @FreakMoPed
fb: / freakmoped
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Wish we had Vespa mechanics like you here in London.
The ones that we used are playing at being mechanics. One kept our px200e for 10 weeks. 6 months later the "new" gearbox broke and had to be redone. thankfully they no longer exist.
will soon be visiting london anyways, as long as we dont need passport controls ;o)) , too long ago. no worries, same here in austria, there is no good workshop! the official shops do a LOT of unbelievable bungling! time is money, so no one makes it with love and look for detail. furthermore u can say: they simply dont know a lot of things, as these tractors are running anyways nearlly no matter what!
+mista FreakMoPed
The many mechanics we have visited STILL haven't fixed the gear oil leak!
Surely it can't be THAT difficult?!?
+ro63rto where is.the leakage? Was the engine.opened? With every engine service that includes opening.the engine.u need.to round the edges of the engine case sealings otherwise oil leackage may happen. But dont forget that every vespa drips: 1) si carb casing 2) exhaust port/exhaust
+mista FreakMoPed
haven't figured out where from but it's definitely gearbox oil. constantly have to top up.
Great labelling and instructions thanks mista. The timing thing is something that I am slowly getting a grasp of ;)
it quite easy if you dont use a degree disc which makes it science/vodoo and is not as precise as the simple measurememt.
@@FreakMoPed8 So, do you not use a timing/degree disc? What is the measurement process? Sorry for the silly questions.
no, its not precise enough in my eyes and makes things more complicated. why measuring 3x around the corner instead of directly the cylinder & intake?
here is the timings guide
ua-cam.com/video/MvGNkw1g6C8/v-deo.html
Thanks a lot for the video! Very very nice
I need some advice on jetting.
I did everything you recommended. Replaced the clutch to a banded clutch, matched cases, fixed the squish (my mechanic decided on 1mm), drilled the float chamber to main jet hole to 2.5mm, and installed a polini exhaust.
With a 128MJ it was four stroking like in your four stroking video when you used a 130MJ. I can't a 127 or 126 MJ locally, so I installed a 125MJ. Everything else is stock. My main stack right now is a 160/BE3/125 and a 55/160 idle jet. I do have a 52/140 like you recommended, but I have not installed it. Mix screw turned out about 2 turns on a spaco 24/24.
With a 125, it runs better. A little four stroking when I reach about 4000rpm. Issue is that my BR8ES is black. It looks pretty fouled up. Not sure what do as far as jetting.
I live in Japan, so speed limits are low. I usually cruise around 60km. That's already 10km over the fastest speed limits. So doing WOT test runs are almost impossible.
Was the old cylinder, piston and crank oily when you pulled it?
Is the ignition healthy?
@@FreakMoPed8 I can't really comment on the piston since someone else installed it, but everything including ignition felt pretty healthy before. I was running a sito on a stock bike before with a 122 MJ and that was actually running pretty lean. When I did the carb mods, it started riding a little rich, but I expected that before the 210 was installed.
Asking around someone suggested a AC120 BE5 130MJ 50/100 pilot. any thoughts on that?
Go ask the mechanic. Its important. Everything runs with original 😉
Jetting is not your problem, sthg else is up.
Engine needs 160/be3/128 ij 2,7
If this doesnt work there is a different problem
an ac 120 and the ij u mentiom is super rich, forget it.
Also try this
ua-cam.com/video/wNs3H7oWoCo/v-deo.html
Your videos are great, but can you slow them down or make the text stay on screen longer? I constantly have to pause to read everything!
Down on the left in the screen there is a gear. You can click it and speed down the video.
thx wespenblech, yes u can set the speed by yourself, put it down to 0,5x ie, i could make it double as long but it would get boring... or not? :)
ps. its on purpose that i use text instead of trying to be cool in front of the camera, i mean not that i couldnt do that ;o) commenting = samesame in real ;) BUT if u are in the workshop u cant pause talking, u can pause text, its supposed to be like a guide/book where u can just pause, see the info, read and thinkg about it. or like a forumchat with moving pictures but without all that blabla from sunday mechanics ;)
Long time watching your videos thanks! Was thinking of putting a cylinder kit on p200 has only has sip 2.0 and 24mm carb. Best is malossi sport 210 but doesn't come with head, any opinion on which head? Or do you think i would be happy with the new polini 210, just looking for the p200 to be a good touring bike. Thanks in advance!!
Ur welcome! Check another shop, the sport 210 is of course available as kit with cyl head. Nope, polini isnt state of the art anymore, its just a loveless updated aluminium version of the old old. Cast iron polini 207, check the pics: still the old asso piston with that unneeded top L piston ring. And of course still same ports and low timings. Malossi did a verybgood job withnupdating the 210, polini sadly didnt....
Excellent video!
You are my vespa hero!
Keep it like this!
If I put a head gasket 0,6mm and a bottom gasket 0,6mm with 57 crankshaft to the mallosi 210, do I have any problems? Do I have beter performance?
head gasket is needed as the original squishnis always too small, bottom a 0,6 instead of 0,25.. It doesnt really matter. But What sqish do you have now? Aprox: 0,6+0,8+0,3=1,7mm? that would be too big
@@FreakMoPed8 1,45mm squish. The consuption of the fuel is ++. Is this the only effect? What do you say
Also is the variable advance workable to the mallosi 210? I use sip sport ignition.
I think can here the piston rings...
Piston rings are not hearable 😄, thats an old but wrong myth 😉
If any you hear PINKINH, due to too lean set carb or fuel. Supply problems
Vcdi works of course with pnp tuning
Squish is ok. With 1,45mm
Pinking: ua-cam.com/video/3wQJ4oo_Jgk/v-deo.html
Fuel. Consumptionnis higher of course, yes
@@FreakMoPed8 thank you a lot!
Great Vids you do & subscribed.
I'm building a Malossi 210 sport on Malossi casings, Sip 2 pipe standard SI24/24E carb. Standard jetting but with a 130main as supplied with the kit. Building it for a touring setup. Do I need to drill out the float chamber to 2.5mm or will the standard hole 1.5mm be ok? I also have two air filters to choose from one with heart holes drilled & one with no heart holes drilled. Which is best to use? Any help much appreciated thanks & keep up the great vids
sip2 box expansion?
sip2 box is outdated..aip2 expansion not a touring exhaust. polinibox is a touring exhaust.
only cyl exchange? then its pnp
even more important tomuse the best touring box
yes. fast flow tap and 2.5mm bore yes.
@@FreakMoPed8 thanks for reply. it is the Sip Road 2 exhaust. I have drilled out the MJ bore 2.5mm.
Thanks for sharing this info, wonderful videos! I will mount the same configuration on my vespa (malossi sport, polini box exhaust and si24 modified with 2mm hole and polini venturi), do you remember your carb jetting? In order to have a reference for start jetting my carb. Thanks!
ij 2,7 mj 128 air Filter with Holes
Hello! Thanks for spreading this interesting tutorial! How much is important to do that job (digging) in the carter? If I don't touch anything, what will be affected? Reliability and performance. If yes how much in terms of power? I am afraid of digging the carter, I've never done this operation, is it dangerous? Thanks !!
if you are on it, tuning and servicing the engine, do it, its not dangerous. At the 200 you domt even break trough, at the 125 cases you do normaly, but also this is not a problem
Checkout this guide
ua-cam.com/video/_1NaxPY4n1I/v-deo.html
@@FreakMoPed8 Hey mate! I did the job following your helpful tips. Everything was fun just like you said. Please I need another suggestion from you. Does a 24 carburetor suit a 210 with Polini box? What about installing a Pinasco SI 26 Er instead? Thank you again for your time. Have a nice weekend!
Thanks a lot for this video mista FreakMoPed. I just like to understand about the clutch. Is it sold as a complete kit ? Can you please tell me where to buy ? Thanks
its a TENINCH cnc basket, available at their shop "onkel mikes garage" in austria: www.onkelmikes.at
Nice clear videos! My cosa 200 / 210 runs much better with the statorplate turned the other way arround? It caused blow by’s?? Not 18 or 14 but lets say 10 degrees.
I think my biggest mistake was the touring pipe instead of the sport :)
Is a bigger air corrector a good idea?
you need to set ignition timings in detail. measure it. see my guide.
damaged defect ignition causes blowback at correct settings yes. see my guide ;)
also gearbox oil sucker causes blowback. see my guide ;) ;)
Helpful info there, thanx....
Hast du eine Fudi oder Kodi benutzt oder nur den O-Ring am Kopf verwendet?
Wie groß sollte die QK sein? Messen wegen Fertigungstoleranzen?
Vielen Dank
kommt mit tw unter 1mm. ich empfehle rundum 1.4mm
Wie sieht es denn ohne Fast Flow aus, ist da trotzdem halbwegs was zu erwarten? Mit Tank rausnehmen stehe ich auf Kriegsfuß.
Super Video btw.
kleines otuning ok. pnp tuning nope, keine empfehlung von meiner seite. allerdings habe ich halt den ansatz dass man GESICHERT auf der SICHEREN seite ist. dh GARANTIERT zuviel sprit, statt immer nur kurz vor bzw bereits spritmangel, der nur nicht schlagend wird, weil man das moped halt nie 100% prügelt. sondern lieber nach dem polieren zur eisdiele tuckert. tank raus geht schon. wenn getrenntschmierung den gummi des ölschauglas weg, dann gehts einfacher.
thx! :)
@@FreakMoPed8 besten Dank 👍
I'm busy restoring an '85 px200e and looking at installing the same Malossi Sport 210 kit. What is the process to take it one step further and to get the most out of that kit. I'm thinking of cutting the crank to improve the timings and match all the ports for the best flow. What would you suggest will be the next step after what you have just done?
exactly, extending intake. timings and u can open the exhaust port a bit, as it is only 56%, if u go for 60mm stroke use a head gasket, dont lift the cyl with a bottom. gasket
mista FreakMoPed Thanks for the feedback. By how much would you say should the crank be cut and what will be the affect on the timing? And the jetting in the carb, do you increase the main jet and by how much?
u can go up to 200 degree intake timing including 10degree overlapping, of course jetting will be richer then :)
The manual says plug and play jetting should be 120-125. Just bolted on. (With advanced intake 125-130)
Is 120-125 pnp what you have found?
depends on exhaust used
125 is fine
@@FreakMoPed8 polini box. So that's good.
Just thought it strange that the kit came with a 120 mj and a 130mj
honda clucth plate and lining you use..
may i know from what model?
cause im using honda ex5 cluctch plate also..
+Muhamad Shahnun could should be the same engines but just different names. We call it honda cr 80/100
How is fuel consumption with this set up if touring not thrashing about?
Same as original or even less as its alu, not cast. Also fine tuned engines dont suck so much, see the 140.000km talk video, where both share their fuel consumptions
Hi @FreakMoped8 I got an MK1 210 Sport and I would like to fit a 60 crankshaft, I have read that the piston is not compatible, what would you recommend???
it is
@@FreakMoPed8 what would you recommend for base and head gasket sizes for touring,
@@FreakMoPed8what thickness base and head gasket for you recommend for the 60 crankshaft (for touring) KR
Wooow men
you didn't change the carb?
no, why shouldnt i, 200ccm comes with 24si carb, this is a very old original dellorto as u can see, this is perfect! absolutely no need to exchange, the 1mm to si25 (ie bgm faster flow with 25mm and still fuel supply probs unfortunately) or si26 isnt really that big, i would say: u cant feel it :)
as no one really sets the carb 100% right the effect of setting it actually right is bigger
That engine probably have a half of the power that It would have with a job in the carter do in a good way, the fluidodinamic is totally wrong(you have a big gap with the old transfert)
Not really paolo. This engine basically has an oilsucker, due to poor engine service from the dealer who Sold this scooter. In general with a healthy engine Malossi sport 210, only plug and play, with a box exhaust, this means no touching of the engine case, not adjusting case to the Ports of the cylinder, already hits 16-17hp at the wheel (9hp original) even with the "flow problems" u are guessing. U can see all of the edges if a case is not adjusted here in this video: ua-cam.com/video/rkMrjH1esU4/v-deo.html
16-17 even with this is very impressive. So the adjusting of the case as shown in the vid u commented improves the flow as it removes a lot of unneeded edges
Pnp tuning is always limited by the short intake timings of the original crank, it only has 50-55degrees, u cant achieve more power with this, the 16-17hp are already very fascinating! This scooter shows a proper 17,5s acceleration, thats ok for just pnp tuning: ua-cam.com/video/Xgp1nnYuniU/v-deo.html
It will be aprox 5s faster and change to 12s with the next tuning stage: extending intake timings, optimizing exhaust port and a complete engine service ok. Thie current crank is damaged i am pretty sure, most probably ankeled stumps and low pressfit
Sorry ,I don't say that this engine is non powerfull cause in comparison with the original It fly but with a complete work in the bottom of the case It Will have a big power increase
What do u mean with work at the bottom? Just porting the engine case better will not really improve the power of it. Not adjusting to lil bit adjusted yes, but adjusted to fine adjusted only minimal.
Factors that bring a lot of power are: cly and intake timings, (overlapping!) exhaust port width and shape, exhaust. Well played with, the power will increase from now guess 15-16 up to 24-26hp with BIGbox and 20-22 with normal box.
Dear FraekMoPed, I have a question, is it possible to put on the malossi v-one crankcase 200px, the original thermal group, without adjusting the channels on the crankcase? I would put the original 24/24 carburetor without an oil mixer. Would that work?
yes
How much power would you say it get's from this setup?
+Føns Lorenz. Malossi sport plug and play has 17hp out of the box
I am still in dilemma, whether to buy quattrini or malossi 221. Which one you will recommend? How much power i can have with malossi 221?
for what. pnp? then it's only sport. for reed its defo quattrini. sport well done peaks up to 25hp and above
@@FreakMoPed8 thanks, I will choose malossi sport then
Padahal udah 3 tahun yg lalu tp baru nonton ini
english pls
@@FreakMoPed8 hehehehehe
Is Video 3 years ago
Il carburatore si è spazzatura..... usate PHBH o PHBG
+Moreno Padoin phbH as G has only in max 21mm available
Pwk
not needed, for our engines dellorto do all the job thats needed. no need for mikuni keihin etc, its more about that dellorto is boring kindof. but technically not actually needed. see the bfa 306 in my videos with 70hp, it also runs on a dellorto carb
WTF ? big exhaust crankshaft for race reed valve bigger carburator at least....for this big upgrade with this kit !!!
sry, we are not in the 90ies anymore ;) furthermore optic tuning is also not really needed :)
sport is a TOURING cylinder and the very first choice for 200, no matter if pnp or tuning.
it is the BEST touring cyl kit available.
in general reed valve, big exhaust all of this shit is NOT needed, if you know how setup a well thought rotary valve setup
with rotary valve u nowadays gain 25-28hp at the wheel, no reed valve needed ;)
for instance, simply checkout this comparison ua-cam.com/video/Wu2nxJsvDhk/v-deo.html
Is there a head you can recommend that I can order from sip? Also do you think the Polini venturi is worth it for this setup?
standard malossi head. whats wrong with it? no, any venturi vodoo is not worth the money. power is to be generated inside an engine, not outside.
@@FreakMoPed8 I read the compression on it is a little high for mild tuning like this. Others recommended a MMW head, but I can't seem to find in stock.
@@FreakMoPed8 I'm new to all this and just doing my research, but your videos are rally helpful in making decisions!
SIP says: some PX200 cases had different stud spacing, and the Malossi cylinder might not fit. Have you every actually experienced this?
No. beside the. Sip bfa 306 where cyl didnt fit at all 😂
Its rather a bolt bore issue at the cylinder than a case bolt Problem
Can I use the original clutch with 210 + Polinibox or I'll need a reinforced one?
Reinforced pls
@@FreakMoPed8 CR80 linings on original basket would do the trick or do I need to reinforce the basket with a outer ring? Thanks
Yes, sip CR plates and px old needs a ring, cosa clutch a ring and rivets strengthened, see my DIY clutch video
@@FreakMoPed8 I'll watch it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Can inpost you my parts for porting
?