I like how the Clone Wars touches on this a bit when Tarkin and Anakin find themselves in agreement that the Jedi aren’t great strategists and aren’t fighting to fhe fullest degree. It’s a nice bit of foreshadowing the two working together after ROTS.
Tarkin and anakin working together is a bit of an overstatement. It's more like.. mutual hate and competition, mixed with forced coöperation for the emperor.
Indeed, the jedi code can be problematic, especially when it comes to winning wars or battles. You have to compromise at times if it meant winning. Anyways, its good to meet you Mr Miles, I'm going to meet my captain and fight some separatist.
@@aeririahelmold eventually respect, yes. Trust? Not so much. They both knew the other was good at their respective jobs, but trusting anyone in the empire would be a death sentence. Higher ranked officers can throw you under the bus, lower ranked officers are out for your job, and equals see you as a threat. Tarkin was nearly killed by vader after an assasination attempt coming from the imperial corps, and was only spared because the emperor specifically requested it, otherwise he would've been made an example of.
I could swear I've read short stories and the like that basically show that the reason that Obi-wan is the high general of the republic is because he's one of the few jedi ACTUALLY GOOD at war. Seriously, he was effectively integrated as a Mandalorian when he was 18. He was a child soldier for almost a year IN A CONFLICT THAT THEY WON when he was 14/15. Depressingly enough, it really feels like all his trauma paid off for the republic. Anakin in the other hand s a wrecking ball, and he knows it. That's also why the Open Circle Fleet (EG Anakin + Obi-wan) were SO EFFECTIVE. Obiwan took command and control, Anakin went where the fighting was fiercest.
Jedi like kenobi are the exception and while there are a couple of times I question kenobis methods that’s more so in the clone wars show and tactical writing in that show tends to be really spotty. Most Jedi though were not as they didn’t have a similar background to obiwan and were not built for that combat. At best they could be far more effective as the team leads of divisions in the clone army, much like anakin with the 501st but more stream lined in terms of teams and the more shiny Jedi like Ahsoka at the start being the 2-IC or second in command after the team leader to learn next to them and improve.
Yeah Anakin's tactics are often pretty questionable. However, he was a darn good warrior and leader on the battlefield and able to win the respect of his men. Combine that with Obi-Wan's planning and you got a very effective leadership. Combine that with the best soldiers the galaxy had seen in over 1,000 years (just clones in general) and you got a very scary military force.
According to Legends, Obi-Wan was leading an army of child soldiers in a brutal guerrilla war at thirteen. So yeah ... he knew war far better than his peers.
@@legoforbeginners6950 well he isn't called the hero with no fear for nothing, always taking the most dangerous approach as the quickest and most effective approach.
One thing I love about the Luke Skywalker & Shadows of Mindor Novel is how it shows that Luke heavily dislikes the idea of being a military general just because he’s a Jedi
This reminds me of a section I loved from KOTOR, where the Rakatan AI protecting the star map on Kashyyyk questions the player character on war tactics. The twist is that the "good" answers have a dark side tilt while the light side are considered "bad" tactics. I remember feeling conflicted but also reminded that the Jedi likely would have followed these "bad" tactics costing them in multiple conflicts.
Good tactics sent Revan to the Dark Side and nearly dammed the Republic he wanted to save. Star Wars isn't supposed to be gritty sci fi. It's fantasy, first and foremost. Heroism pays off, venality creates darkness and misery.
And that's the genius of that mission. It gives you an idea why Revan fell to the dark side. Revan ignored morals and ideologies as a general, because he emphasized more on what was practical and as a result he was willing to sacrifice millions in order to save billions.
Jedi demonstrate keen insights into personnel and immense personal courage. However, their grasp of the tactical, operational, and strategic art and science of war. Jedi Generals often fail in maintaining logistical support for their operations, maintaining coordination and momentum at the operational level, and wasting lives and material in tactically flawed actions where these generals voluntarily demote themselves to ad-hoc squad and platoon leaders.
Perhaps then it'd be better for the Jedi, at least most of them, to be the leaders of smaller squads, perhaps utilizing the sword and shield technique from rebels and just being more Frontline support for the clones. Maybe somewhat more competent jedi like obi Wan as actual generals.
@@josephkim3443 Obi-Wan is a capable and inspiring leader but he's the wrong sort for a general. Honestly, he's an example of all the problems of Jedi Generalship. His campaigns lack a firm logistical or strategic groundwork, resulting in significant operational failures that are bailed only by tactical brilliance at decisive points and at immense and unnecessary cost in time and lives.
The Liberation of Ryloth is a perfect example. Despite having near total orbital supremacy, sufficient that they evidently don't have to provide close support for the assault ships, there is no CAS missions being run. No fire support for Kenobi's initial landing. Not even recon overflights. These operational failings cost them an entire Acclamator and the division inside, a total of one-third of their force, while the approach to the village costs them 4 out of 6 gunships, another 120 men. By the end of it, they seem to lose at least another platoon, all because they completely failed to conduct any reconnaissance before the landing and failed to provide even limited support. And why was there no support? Because they didn't want to damage Twi'lek property. So instead they risked the complete failure of the operation.
One of my favorite moments that relates to this is Etain Tur-Mukan telling her men that if she gives an order that doesn’t make sense, don’t follow it. She’s absolutely one of the most respectful and really self aware Jedi Order.
I personally loved how in the Republic comics we see the Jedi stray down a darker path while trying to justify it. I mean religious monks would in my opinion not be great military commanders especially if there wasn't any major conflicts for over a 1000 years.
Any military that hasn't seen action in a thousand years would suffer horribly in pretty much all aspects. As for monks being military commanders, you do have some historical examples such as the Knights Templars, Knights Hospitallers and Teutonic Knights which led armies quite effectively. Most of the time.
@@Ashguy733 For me the Battle of Jabiim and Order 66 were the highlights. Even after Episode 3, TCW season 7, and Fallen Order I don't think anyone has topped Star Wars Endgame. That basically described, fleshed out, and showed Order 66 to it's fullest
The statement honestly made no sense at all. The Jedi fought several times during the Old Republic. Even during peace they fought. At best they were like monk UN Commandos
The biggest problem with Jedi Generals is the same problem that used to exist in European militaries. That problem being who you were ment more than how capable you were.
"I am the very model of a modern major general, I've information vegetable, animal and mineral, I know the kings of England and I quote the fights historical, from Marathon to Waterloo in order categorical...." Knew everything there was to know except how to do their job. lol
When you take into account the fact that the CIS was mainly just outer rim worlds (important enough to gather resources from, but nothing else), the clone wars essentially boils down to asset retainment. Keep the core worlds happy, while not giving a shit about those on distant, and possibly even hellish planets.
One of the themes of the Prequels was that the Separatists was formed especially because the majour corporations, like the Trade Federation, Commerce Guilds, Techno Union and the Banking Clan, wanted to do anancap and break free of Republic supervision. A big part of TPM's politics is about a tax dispute. Attack of the Clones is when the neolibs take up arms against the central government and fund a hostile takeover. There's no similar experience in the real world. It would be the equivalent of having those companies that exploit the countries in the periphery of capitalism suddenly lost support from the countries that they spawned from, then took over those territories and began a war against the main capitalist rich countries. Which never happened, because the big corporations rule both the peripheric countries and the central ones.
Not completely simple. We don’t actually know how much of a percentage of the CIS was made up of these worlds. There were a number of worlds dragged into the CIS by megacorps and also a lot of worlds that joined out of revenge to the Republic, like the Zygerrian Slave Empire. Of course, the richer Republic worlds and megacorps would be in the war for these greedy and selfish reasons, but Palpatine and Dooku likely transformed the war into one of survival to get many other worlds to side with the Republic. Hence the use of the megacorps and their droid armies. So thus a very mixed and grey war. Both sides had exploiters who wanted to increase their profit and territory. Both sides had people who fell victim to the first category of members. A very grey war.
You also underscore how much of a trap the Clone Wars was for the Jedi. They had the option of just staying out of the conflict but that would have hurt their image. They also had the option of joining the Separatists which would have been worse. With the added muddling of their Force abilities, Palpatine made the perfect conditions that would essentially destroy the Order.
Technically you could say even if the Jedi wanted to stay out, they kind of had a duty to get involved. Jedi after all are supposed to protect the galaxy from the Sith, which Dooku was. Now if the Separatists never attacked, the Jedi would still have a fair point of staying out of the war. The problem is since Palpatine and Dooku are working together, a Separatist invasion of the Republic was inevitable, even if the CIS population didn’t agree. Millions probably would love to take revenge, but the others would probably have a hit on their faith to Dooku. Anyways, since Dooku was once one of the Jedi’s own, they may have felt responsible to bring him in. This kind of further solidifies how perfect the Clone Wars were. If anything the Jedi couldn’t try to avoid the conflict, not with Palpatine controlling both sides. Their best move would have been investigating the mysterious nature of things around them as soon as the war began instead of waiting until the last year of the war. They started their investigation into the clone army far too late. If in less than a year they found out Dooku made the clone army and if they also knew the whole time of Darth Sidious, then if they started their investigation at the start of the Clone Wars, they likely would have found out about Palpatine by perhaps the middle of the war or at worst the start of the third year of the conflict. The earlier they put the pieces together the better. In the first half of the war they could present this to the Senate and the public. The Senate would take long to come to a conclusion on the findings and accusation, but Palpatine can’t commit Order 66 because he wouldn’t have all of the power he needed like the banks for instance and with the revelation of his ties to Dooku who ordered the implantation of the inhibitor chips, people would see Order 66 as a coup attempt. Now if the Jedi figured things out in the second half of the war, which would be after the failed peace attempt between the Republic and the Separatists, they would have to do some dark stuff. They probably would have to assassinate Palpatine and go into hiding since they would be accused as Separatist colluders. It would take some time after this dirty act for the galaxy to realize the Jedi saved them, but it’s better than trying the first plan in the wrong part of the war.
Anakin said to a Captain Tarkin while escaping the Citadel during the Clone Wars, "I've also found that we sometimes fall short of victory because of our methods"".
In The Battle of Rythlon Jedi Ethics did limit them. There is a good scene of Obi Wan saying NO HEAVY WEAPONS like Rocket launchers much to the clones disagreement...
As others have mentioned, sadly the Republic at this time, were so devoid of a functioning Military hierarchy, they had little choice on who to draw upon to lead their war machine. The Jedi were seen as super-humans and many thought that people of this calibre would bring super-abilities to their fighting force. Of course, personal physical ability means little in the grand theatre of conflict and only hard earned experience, would inevitably win out. Again, at that time, NO ONE in the Republic had said experience. Now, having the Clone Troopers with an indoctrinated mindset towards tactics and perhaps strategic knowledge, was certainly an asset but as they were developed as "followers" not "Leaders" they would have proved detrimental as Generals having to make overwhelming decisions just as much as the Jedi. Having the Clones act as advisors and confidantes to the Jedi, eventually turned out pretty good teams, with only a few Jedi so powerdrunk they ignored advice. This is similar to many human cultures' military strategem. You have neophyte Officers that are guided and matured by Sergeants, who know the game inside out in the field of their particular expertise. Eventually, after receiving mentorship from a variety of Sergeants, many of these green-gills become damn fine Officers.
Hm...the Senate did have a military wing (among them was Tarkin's family!) and there were officers (Yularen for example, but also Tarkin himself!) so the Jedi were not especially needed, but Palpatine wanted them there (so he could thin them out, while also setting them up of course!)
Most Jedi should have been assigned to clone commando squads as a member. The commandos were allready highly effective, having a force bag of tricks and a lightsaber to screen incoming fire would have been very effective, had the point been to win the war rather than exhaust and kill the Jedi.
I think the Jedi should have remained independent from the command structure. Never in the spotlight. Have the Jedi receive requests or observe intel and have them judge where they should step in. You know things like "if we don't then the tide of the war will change" A clone seeing a Jedi would immediately know that shit is about to get ugly because of their role.
I believe that the only reason that Jedi performed so poorly, especially at the beginning of the war is that they were not taught to be leaders in a war not because the fact that they were Jedi held them back as we see numerous times during the old republic that there were times when the Jedi had been among the best tacticians and strategist the republic had.
i always had the impression, that the Jedi Order where right there where Palps wanted them, slowly worn down by the CIS and getting a killing blow at the End. No Matter how good they are in a Command Role, as if Palps cared for anyone, yet alone Clones. hmmmm maybe an Idea for a Galtic Versus Video: What if Palpatine would have been outed/exposed or otherwise removed from Office right before the start of the Clone Wars, maybe even while Episode 2 for good fun so the Wheels are already in Motion and it's to late to Stop
I really like how you explain things - particularly that we have a "General Kenobi" and how he got that rank and it make sense now that Palatine used this to exploit his agenda. Remember the original movie made things so vague that you could extrapolate new meanings years later.
The Jedi failed because the vast majority of them were out of touch both in combative nature, and tactical ingenuity. While some earned their merit, like Anakin and Plo Koon, many more were incompetent, self sabotaging, or outright cruel to their clones. In a sense, the Clone Wars was putting the Jedi’s worst on full display.
Okay, speaking strictly about Disney Canon I can see the incompetence and self-sabotaging roles of the Jedi in the Clone Wars, but cruel? That definitely seems like a case by case basis. While I would say Legends Jedi act far colder to the clones and are dismissive of them due to their warlike and obedient mindsets while Canon Jedi are far more compassionate and empathetic to their troops, I wouldn’t say most Jedi in either continuity were outright cruel. Now Krell is an obvious exception. I have little doubt his personality didn’t change between him being a loyal Republic Jedi and being a traitor wanting to serve Dooku. And Legends Quinlan Vos along with General Kota have similar mindsets. Heck, Canon Jedi probably would take some issues with their Legends counterparts even though besides the treatment of the clones little else was so different between them. However I would say at most Jedi in both continuities are worst are cold and fail to understand the circumstances of others. Cruelty seems a lot more exceptional, something you see in those that become Sith. Many Jedi of course got really close to the Dark Side thanks to their experiences in the Clone Wars, but while many times they waded in that pool, they usually tried to swim back to shore, even if they sometimes were unsuccessful. Even Jedi that are cold and lack empathy at least try to preserve life, as seen by how many Jedi at least try to keep clones alive even if their Legends versions never created the smallest of bonds. These cruel Jedi even in the Clone Wars were kind of rare, though probably far more prominent than ever in the history of the galaxy. After all in Disney Canon, many Jedi did become Inquisitors, just one step away from being Sith Apprentices. Still, if I was a clone trooper I would choose to serve a Canon Jedi then a Legends Jedi. I would have a better chance of getting a Jedi who cares instead of one just focusing on their duty.
The whole "jedi were incompetent commnaders" or "treated clones badly" is mostly fan headcanon. It was only traviss who tried to introduce it in the story to hype up her mandalorians and clone because she liked them more than jedi.
@@james501001 Eh, to be fair, Genesis is kind of counter to that. And on Tech, climbing up a cliffside while being shot at also seems stupid. Not to mention Jedi stand out in the open and kind of encourage their clone troopers to be right with them. And in Legends, there seems to be more distrust between Jedi and clones. I would say that Traviss just exaggerated these qualities of the Jedi-Clone relationship in her Republic Commando books. I have to say that while I'm a major clone fan, works like Republic Commando kind of make me prefer the regular clones over the special forces clones. The special forces kind of have an advantage in just being designed differently by the Kaminoans, making them more independent thinking. Legends ARC troopers, Legends clone commandos, and now Canon Bad Batch. They're intentionally-with the exception of the Null ARCS-designed to act more like Jango Fett so they can be more effective. This quality of the special forces seems to have led to them getting some type of preferential treatment from their Mandalorian trainers. Nothing too unique, more like the Mandalorians took more interest in these clones and taught them Mandalorian culture while kind of just focusing only on training for the rest of the army. Later on, when the regular clones dislike Mandalorians who have been attacking them, they get ticked at the special forces for embracing Mandalorian culture. The special forces take offense and get into arguments with these guys, but it seems kind of unfair. After all, the Mandalorians acted as a family to the special forces while they only acted as drill sergeants for the regular troopers. Another thing I have to say is the lack of nuance. Now clearly Traviss shows the Separatists as enemies, but she makes the main antagonists be agents of the Republic. Not just the guys who are on Palpatine's side, but she also adds the Jedi there too. Yes, the Jedi are the generals in an army of what can basically be called slaves, but they also are kind of the ones who inspire the regular troopers to become more independent thinking. Now, this happens more in Canon than in Legends to be fair, but the story kind of forgets that the Republic is transitioning from an era of peace to a time of war. While there are ethical issues with using a clone army, they kind of have no choice being under attack by massive droid armies without their own military to defend themselves. If the options are between forcing somebody to fight to defend you or being invaded and conquered, most people probably would choose the former. Honestly, the decision to use the clones should be seen as an unfortunate necessity, one that could have been avoided if there had never been a war, but now that there is they have little choice. And now the Mandalorians. I have to admit I have some disagreement with how she kind of makes them morally superior to the Jedi. To be honest, they're kind of similar. For one thing, they both induct children into their ranks. Mandalorians choose kids who have lost everybody they care for in war while the Jedi induct children from their families. Neither practice can really be called immoral considering the circumstances as in the case of the Mandalorians, the kids have nowhere to go. In the case of the Jedi, they usually ask and given that force-wielders can be so powerful, it's usually a good idea to have them train their abilities. Of course, one key difference between the Mandalorians and the Jedi is when their views on violence and action. Mandalorians like combat. I mean, they kind of have to if a majority of their economy in the Legends novels under Boba Fett's reign comes from their bounty hunter jobs and they are divided into warrior clans. Jedi on the other hand see violence more as an unfortunate action that must be avoided until there is no choice. Times like the Clone Wars and the Mandalorian Crusades are kind of exceptions when you think about it. Most of the time the Jedi do act as peacekeepers and most of the time the Mandalorians act as mercenaries who may kill people on a regular basis. While Mandalorians are honorable, I would think the moral high ground would be slightly more onto the Jedi's side. Sure, the Clone Wars aren't the Jedi at their best. But their intentions are still noble. According to Legends, Spar, a clone trooper deserter, formed his own version of the Mandalorian Protectors and became the leader of Mandalore after Satine was killed and Maul was imprisoned by Palpatine. He then dragged Mandalore into the Clone Wars and had a policy not to take prisoners. To be fair he hated the Republic and the Jedi for using the clones who had no real stake in the war and it was the popular public sentiment that initially led to Satine's downfall. However, you have to remember that Mandalore was practically the leader of the Council of Neutral Systems, thus holding sway over thousands of star systems. Maul wanted to use this influence to create a criminal empire. What exactly did Spar do with that power? Since he brings back Mangalore's warrior culture, nothing good in my opinion. The Mandalorian warrior culture is treated as a great thing, as a true honor. And to be fair, it probably is. Joining a warrior clan sure seems cool. But the fact that most clone characters in the RC series join a clan seems troubling. In Canon, we got to see clone troopers in peaceful lives outside of the military like Cut or Rex and his team in Rebels. In Legends, every clone deserter or clone who survives the war is only a bounty hunter, mercenary, or Mandalorian. Again to be fair, the clone troopers were soldiers, that was how they were raised. Naturally, they would have to take jobs like these to survive. But the fact that we never see any clone troopers being farmers like Cut or trying some land version of fishing like Rex and his team seems to imply that even in retirement, clone troopers couldn't live in peace. Now a lot of fans wish that in an alternate timeline where Palpatine lost, the clone troopers would after the Clone Wars be allowed to go to Mandalore where they would join the clans. The thing is, how is this better than their previous lives? Now again, they will be surrounded by people who may respect them. In the Republic military, it usually was just the Jedi who treated them kindly. Mandalorians might act hostile at first as we see in Canon since the clones were their enemies, but the Legends clans seem like they would warm up to the newcomers quickly. The thing is that if Mandalore brings back its warrior culture, what's stopping them from becoming conquerors again? At the very least, it seems like they would mobilize their forces to try and take revenge against the Republic, as this probably was the main reason Spar got Mandalore involved in the Clone Wars on the side of the Separatists. Of course, to do that, they are going to have to gather resources. What better way to do so than by conquering the Mandalore Sector and the neutral worlds? The Mandalorians may instead decide to institute a mercenary culture as the Mandalorian Protectors were based on the True Mandalorians who preferred mercenary work over war, hence why they opposed the Death Watch. However, the True Mandalorians fought more so to make Mandalorian culture an organized mercenary one instead of being criminals and raiders who caused suffering for suffering itself. Instead of advocating for Mandalorians to work in any job, they advocated making a mercenary army. Seems like something that can easily be used to wage war instead of just taking jobs. When it comes down to it, the question would be how much do the Mandalorians actually want revenge against the Jedi and the Republic? Are they willing to conquer and kill for it, or would they think the Clone Wars would be punishment enough? Not to mention further on the clones don't actually escape violence and the horrors of war. In the aftermath of the Clone Wars, there likely would be many smaller conflicts the Mandalorians would work in. The clones would just be trading one organization for another. Except for this time, there is no end. Clone service likely would end with the Clone Wars given how expensive they were. In a timeline where Palpatine loses, the Jedi likely would train the clones to transition into the civilian field. But if they were just sent to Mandalore, they have to keep fighting because it's the only way to really make money. At this point, I'm just rambling on and on. The basic point is that in my opinion Traviss just took the great qualities in clone troopers and Mandalorians and upped them to possibly extreme levels.
@@james501001 Traviss never wrote them to treat clones badly on purpose and had multiple great Jedi in her books. The Jedi being incompetent and prone to impulsiveness due to being out of their depth was always a part of the Lucas canon, as seen in content like the Republic comics. It makes sense, since they’re isolated space monks who haven’t seen war in 1,000 years. Also you can’t just pick and choose between official licensed material to call what doesn’t suit your tastes “fan headcanon” lmao
Bardan Jusik did asked the council at one moment how they can justify the use and breeding of clones for the use of the republic. Later on resigning his commission as general and leaving the order completely only to join the mandalorians
Since I am sure Luke was more than aware of the role that the Clone Wars played in the fall of his father, and the CW era Jedi Order as a whole, his thoughts maken total sense. Having such an example weaved into his family history, it's only logical that he would be highly skeptical of the Jedi order being used as a branch of the New Republic Military...
I like the Legends Legacy era where the Jedi and the New Republic are separate entities while the Sith and the Fel Empire are also separate entities.it was nice to see religious orders orthogonal to the the different political orders, though the legacy series essentially starts with the Sith deposing the Fel Emperor.
@Darth Revan I can see that, and it makes sense. It’s just they got judgement for not fighting. Then during the clone wars they got judgement for…. Fighting.
#AskEck Is Obi-Wan really The Master of The High Ground, or The Low Ground? He had the low ground against Darth Maul, and he managed to defeat him with a surprise attack. He defeated Anakin, when Anakin jumped over him on Mustafar, allowing him to sever his arm, and legs. And, in The Obi-Wan show, he was losing to Vader, until he nearly got buried alive (Which would mean he was on low ground, compared to Vader, then, he kicked Vader's A$$ soon after. Have we got it all wrong about Obi-Wan's elevation-related advantages/talents?
Ah, this is something I have seen quite frequently- Here is how I view it. Many who make this point forget that Obi-Wan has “mastered high ground techniques”. This implies that others, such as Maul, have had less or no training regarding this matter. What this means is that Obi-Wan is aware of situations when others, less initiated than himself, are using high ground against him, allowing him to play towards their weakness of being unfamiliar with such elevations. In conclusion, Obi-Wan has the high ground, but if he doesn’t, he will soon. Sources(1): (mastery of high ground techniques) it was revealed to me in a dream
@EckhartsLadder battle command is fundamentally different from strategic and tactical command. the clone officers would have suffered as well because they only trained for command at most a squad or company level.
Love your videos bro, but man they always leave me wanting more. Any thoughts on doing long form content? I got a lot of free time in my job since it's driving lol.
@@vetarlittorf1807 thats only canon in Karen Traviss novels where she explicitly tried to make the clones better and the jedi worse because she preferred macho military over space wizards
Maybe the other channel could be called “ Eck’s heroes” or “Eckhart’s heroes” on account of the Marvel, DC, and other content there! Or maybe Eck’s Comics.
I’d see a galaxy-wide policy that force sensitives that join a military should be restricted to a special corps and only be promoted or given political office by merit like any other citizen regardless of third party involvement. An organization like the Galactic Alliance would be the exception to this, not the rule.
There were only a few Jedi who were true "commanders" in that sense. One of them was Master Oppo Rancisis, the hairy snake guy on the Jedi Council in the Prequels. He was a master strategist and a master of battle meditation, a Force skill which could literally turn the tide of battles. But he died towards the end of the Clone Wars during a Separatist ambush on Salucamai.
The political relationship between jedi and republic is, imo, one of the most fascinating aspects of the lore that I wish was expired more in newer canon.
This gets me thinking about all the different alternative paths the Jedi could have taken towards the Republic across their shared history. It seems obvious to me that they failed that most basic strategic axiom for all low-to-no intensity conflict: keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Had the Jedi had more contacts in the bureaucracy and business sector, they may have had a much better idea of the corrupted state of the Republic or actively resisted it from the beginning. In many ways Jedi make the most sense as advisors to people with power who respect wisdom than trying to lead warriors in battle.
Jedi definitely seemed most effective working with ground special forces, it allows them to use their strengths better and they're already used to leading small Jedi strike teams instead of battalions
As a soldier, I would not want to follow Jedi into combat. I remember watching the first movie with clones, the Battle of Geonosis, and watching absolute scores of Clones die because of the Jedi. The fight would have very evidently been won before the Jedi joined the battle. They had equipment they knew how to use, tactics and education in warfare. All of that thrown away in seconds because the Jedi led them on a charge. And what's worse, is you can see the Jedi rolling forward deflecting shots meant for them, but let rounds kill troopers DIRECTLY behind them. In the Clone Wars series you see this even more clearly, with only three (Anikan, Ashoka and Obi-Wan) trying to protect their charges during an assault, and even then, only Ashoka makes the effort for all of them in later seasons. I feel like this is reflected pretty well when the clones receive order 66, with some being reluctant, others pouring fire into the Jedi well after their deaths. Tactically, the Jedi are just not competent. I would not want to be even near one, ever. As an old soldier sees it that is.
i've heard the clones firing like that on aayla secura was to ensure a quick death, as she was one of their favorite jedi. i think ki adi mundi wasnt as well liked
Could someone kindly tell me what the clip sources are in this video? I've seen the Clone Wars animation (not all of it) but some of the animation here is miles better in terms of visual quality but I do not know what it is from
Hey Eck's in your future video's could you make a small video detailing on the Jedi's fate over order 66 did you like them or not if if you were given the choice to save 2 or 3 of the and later join Luke Skywalker's Jedi academy who would the be? Good luck on making more video's I really enjoy them.
Did the Jedi make good military leaders in war? For the Clone Wars, I would say they were never perfect. They were certainly worse at the beginning as they knew nothing of war. Most Star Wars and real life militaries don’t usually have teenagers or people with lightsabers leading whole battalions of starfighter squadrons into battle against an army or fleet of robots. Ahsoka at the Battles of Ryloth and Felucia show this at their best when her arrogance leads to her forces nearly getting wiped out by a larger Separatist force. Over time the Jedi got better, likely listening more to their clone troopers and more experienced military officers. However their career as soldiers of course clashed with their morals. Did the Jedi maintain them in the war? Again, mixed performance. When it came to simply sparing civilians and saving their lives, I would say this was a constant for the Jedi throughout the war. They rarely if ever exploited the civilians and made sure they got to safety. However they did adopt some dark tactics like assassinating targets and faking surrenders. When it came to how they influenced fellow personnel, once more a mixed bag. Clone Troopers of course respected them and took note of whatever teachings they got since the Jedi made up most of the people who gave them respect. However there were also clones who likely viewed the Jedi as not going far enough to win and being weak. These clones likely developed such personalities thanks to the non-Jedi/Clone officers. These officers had some respect for the Jedi due to the chain of command and many having personal experiences with them. However many, especially those that had gone up against pirates, gangs, and other threats in the era of peace before the Clone Wars viewed the Jedi as not going far enough to win, believing that harsher tactics would destroy the Separatists. Would I want a Jedi as a military officer. It’s a tough call for me. On the one hand they probably would need a lot of teaching in how to fight a war. A lot. On the other hand though, at least there’s a higher chance a Jedi will respect the rules of combat. Between the military officers and guerrilla leaders that were on both sides of the Clone Wars, the Jedi were probably the most moral. The times they violated the rules of war usually were in situations they perceived as desperate and affected few non-combatants. Compared to how Tarkin, the one of the highest non-Jedi Republic military officers and Grievous who was the general in command of the Droid Army were brutal, vicious, and worked with like-minded individuals across their career, the Jedi were probably saints. Honestly, I would like having a Jedi as a leader in my military. Better they have to be taught how to fight and lead a military than to be taught how to bet merciful and compassionate. It’s far harder to learn these latter traits in war.
It was a wonderful play by Palpatine to have the Jedi as Military Leaders. They had been the Judicial enforcers for the Republic for so long that having them shown using more force to "Subjugate" enemies of the Republic. Also he played on their Hubris of thinking the Force would yank them from the fire, and it did many times and only cost the death of so many slave soldiers... or "Clone" soldiers. The Jedi could be great tactical leaders on the ground. But they had no business being the Strategic leaders of the Republic. You will not get good results across the board when you take the martial artist diplomats and put them in charge of running a war.
Let's say Palpatine wasn't working to become the Emperor and all that, and we see them being put to good use. A test to see where they would do good as I see some comments saying they should only be part of small forces but there could be some Jedi who would be better in an open battlefield. While some would be good in a military main leader position most I would see them being in a (taking from 40k here) a dual psyker-priest role.
About the battle of Geonosis to be fair i can't see an Acclamator take down a Lucrehulk, at that time they don't had Venators and Acclamators are lightly equipped transports. About the jedi beign keepers of the peace, "Si vis pacem, para bellum", if you want peace prepare to war, the jedi are a fearsome force multiplier for the Republic, they are bound to serve if the republic is in danger, if you have the power to save someone and you don't because some moral crap you are an accomplice of the killer.
Regarding the Jedi entering the Clone Wars - the Seps were being led by Dooku aka. a Sith. As far as the Jedi knew, if they didn't help, a) the clones would be treated even worse than what we see and suffer more casualties, and b) Dooku - who has already taken an Apprentice (Assajj), could be the start of a whole new crop of Sith, which are Jedi are historically not in favour of. Also, the Seps had such groups as the Zygerrians, who were quickly falling back into their slave-trading ways. The Seps, if they gained their independence, would seem to be much more open to slavery, which the Jedi are against. Also also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Senate basically strong-armed the Jedi into leading - if the Chancellor/Senate tells them to help, how the heck could the Jedi have turned them down? Whether or not the Jedi 'should' have gotten involved in the war, there were internal and external pressures that all pointed to it being necessary. From their point of view, they didn't exactly have much choice.
I was thinking about this very topic the other day. The Republic really needed a true separation of powers and a system of checks and balances. While that is somewhat present in the parliamentary system by which the senate operates, the judicial system and Jedi need to be kept far away and have clearly designated powers in the government documents. Perhaps they could even be combined with the two branches of the Republic being: Jedi+Judicial and Senate+Chancellor. The lack of clear legal basis is what Palpatine was able to manipulate in his claims against the Jedi after order 66. The installation of the Jedi into the military during conflict could then be pulled back upon either the Senate or Chancellor's request, and (more importantly) they wouldn't be automatically granted high ranks. A great many Jedi generals would likely be far better as Jedi colonials or captains or could serve in true support roles.
The jedi should've stepped back and took a more back seat approach after Geonosis. Count their losses and remain mostly out of the war. "We are keepers of the peace. Not soldiers." The jedi should've only inserted themselves on rare occasions and remain away from combat and warfare.
They didn't, because the Sith were openly leading the CIS. They could not stay neutral anymore. In fact, the sole purpose of placing an openly Sith Count Dooku at the head of the separatist war effort was to reel the Jedi in. Leave it untended, the Sith would conquer the galaxy by that method
It would have made much more sense that if the jedi were to be integrated into the republic military during the clone wars to have most of them having a position more closely related to their specialty within the order.
in my opinion it depends on jedi (anakin and obi wan are greate strategiests but guys like pong krell arent) so in my opinion republic should test the strategic minds of the jedi individually meaking some of them generals and some of them normal soldiers
AskEch: How did the republic get around the Roussan Reformation to build up their own forces? Did they just abolish it or is there any more interesting story to it? Or is the emergency powers Palpatine got in Ep 2 the extent of it?
I watched the episode on my new tv I have to agree with the changes in the show. I was rewatching the first season as well after and wow they’ve made leaps and bounds in the lightning department I have an LG OLED and wow the OLED makes the lighthing for the blacks and whites unreal
What do you mean Eck? The entire Clone Wars were artificially influenced from the start, the fact that the Republic was going to win was never in question? Palpatine needed to soften the Jedi up, both in the public's mind and through years of War in their own minds.
I think the Jedi were definitely an asset during the clone wars, but were poorly suited to the role of General. They're an obvious force multiplier (no pun intended), but by the time of the clone wars they had been so far removed from warfare, politics, and strategy, and the republic had been at peace for long, that they had lost much of their strategic military cunning. Due to this, I feel they would have been better utilized in more limited roles, either by attaching them to special forces units in the case of jedi who were especially adept at combat, such as Anakin, Obi Wan, Kit Fisto, and Plo Koon; or using them as advisors, counsellors, and "seers" (of sorts) to assist with battle PLANNING (while not overseeing or commanding troops in live engagements directly) in the case of jedi who were particularly intuitive, wise, and had a solid grasp on reading the future such as Ki Adi Mundi, Yoda, or Mace Windu.
The Jedi were incompetent field commanders and remained such through much of the war. Jedi strategy constantly came with heavy clone casualties because most Jedi saw them as nothing more than tools like the CIS' battle droids so they didn't care if their plans were asinine and bled the GAR so long as it got them the victory. That's a terrible way to lead the army. But given the Jedi's penchant for outright war crimes, I'm not surprised that didn't know how to care for an army just how to use it as a club to mindlessly bludgeon the Separatists.
You are wrong. Everything you just said is wrong , exaggerated or straight up lie. The jedi were some of the best leaders the republic had, they were in large part the backbone of the Republics defense, their leadership lead the republic to to many important victories victories both in past conflicts and in the clone wars. Idiots tend to asume that being a peacekeper means that you can't fight or lead when you have to. Also there is no solid evidence or record that shows that every jedi had high casualties that is just your headcanon. What you said about the Jedi treating the clones as tools is a straight up lie, the jedi are taught to respect life in all its forms, the vast majority jedi treated the clones with respect and saw them as human beings not tools. Finally we have no records of what counts as a war crime in star wars galaxy we don't get a lot of information behind the specifics of galactic law. I really doubt that most jedi commited any war crimes.
I mean, i don't think the jedi make for effective high echelon military commanders. Jedi would probably have been better used in small direct action units or integrated into commando teams. Or alternatively, having them act as their own individual organization separate from the GAR entirely.
Question: in star wars they never had any kind of hyperspace long distant rockets, right? Any torpedo that I shoot from a distant space station or planet, that enters hyperspace and travels to any target in the galaxy I want. Why sending a fleet and an army to attack a planet, risking value equpiment and lifes, instead of sending autonomus missles? I am not deep enough into star wars lore to know how hyperspace travel is achieved and what the exact rules are (for range, energy requirement, etc) but I feel like if I can teleport X wings with this ring attachment thing around the galaxy that I can do the same with an explosive. Or thousands of them.
I think they jedi should done of being a jack of all trades assigned their ranks according to their disposition if one jedi is better at being a general go be ground troops of another is better at being an admital go and send it to the navy, it would lessen the burden of having the inappropriate leader in the war
That they were inevitably going to be incompetent at the job of leading an army due to having no proper officer training or military strategy experience? Say it ain’t so.
Jedi shouldn't have cammanded fleets because the Republic had a lot of capable naval officers such as Tarkin Yularen and every other future imperial admiral
I like how the Clone Wars touches on this a bit when Tarkin and Anakin find themselves in agreement that the Jedi aren’t great strategists and aren’t fighting to fhe fullest degree. It’s a nice bit of foreshadowing the two working together after ROTS.
Tarkin and anakin working together is a bit of an overstatement.
It's more like.. mutual hate and competition, mixed with forced coöperation for the emperor.
Indeed, the jedi code can be problematic, especially when it comes to winning wars or battles. You have to compromise at times if it meant winning. Anyways, its good to meet you Mr Miles, I'm going to meet my captain and fight some separatist.
@@Theleaver5088 mmm, yes, compromising… you mean war crimes?
@@HuugTuub it was clear in the Darth Vader comics that they respected and trusted each other to an extent.
@@aeririahelmold eventually respect, yes.
Trust? Not so much.
They both knew the other was good at their respective jobs, but trusting anyone in the empire would be a death sentence.
Higher ranked officers can throw you under the bus, lower ranked officers are out for your job, and equals see you as a threat.
Tarkin was nearly killed by vader after an assasination attempt coming from the imperial corps, and was only spared because the emperor specifically requested it, otherwise he would've been made an example of.
I could swear I've read short stories and the like that basically show that the reason that Obi-wan is the high general of the republic is because he's one of the few jedi ACTUALLY GOOD at war. Seriously, he was effectively integrated as a Mandalorian when he was 18. He was a child soldier for almost a year IN A CONFLICT THAT THEY WON when he was 14/15. Depressingly enough, it really feels like all his trauma paid off for the republic.
Anakin in the other hand s a wrecking ball, and he knows it. That's also why the Open Circle Fleet (EG Anakin + Obi-wan) were SO EFFECTIVE. Obiwan took command and control, Anakin went where the fighting was fiercest.
Jedi like kenobi are the exception and while there are a couple of times I question kenobis methods that’s more so in the clone wars show and tactical writing in that show tends to be really spotty. Most Jedi though were not as they didn’t have a similar background to obiwan and were not built for that combat. At best they could be far more effective as the team leads of divisions in the clone army, much like anakin with the 501st but more stream lined in terms of teams and the more shiny Jedi like Ahsoka at the start being the 2-IC or second in command after the team leader to learn next to them and improve.
Obi is my favorite Jedi ever imao
Yeah Anakin's tactics are often pretty questionable. However, he was a darn good warrior and leader on the battlefield and able to win the respect of his men. Combine that with Obi-Wan's planning and you got a very effective leadership. Combine that with the best soldiers the galaxy had seen in over 1,000 years (just clones in general) and you got a very scary military force.
According to Legends, Obi-Wan was leading an army of child soldiers in a brutal guerrilla war at thirteen. So yeah ... he knew war far better than his peers.
@@legoforbeginners6950 well he isn't called the hero with no fear for nothing, always taking the most dangerous approach as the quickest and most effective approach.
One thing I love about the Luke Skywalker & Shadows of Mindor Novel is how it shows that Luke heavily dislikes the idea of being a military general just because he’s a Jedi
Yes we have Eckharts ladder but is there an Ecklung's staircase?
**Yoda noises**
Eckliver’s elevator moment
Eckspleen escalater
Ecksgallbladder’s ramp
P
E
R
H
A
P
S
This reminds me of a section I loved from KOTOR, where the Rakatan AI protecting the star map on Kashyyyk questions the player character on war tactics.
The twist is that the "good" answers have a dark side tilt while the light side are considered "bad" tactics. I remember feeling conflicted but also reminded that the Jedi likely would have followed these "bad" tactics costing them in multiple conflicts.
Good tactics sent Revan to the Dark Side and nearly dammed the Republic he wanted to save. Star Wars isn't supposed to be gritty sci fi. It's fantasy, first and foremost. Heroism pays off, venality creates darkness and misery.
And that's the genius of that mission. It gives you an idea why Revan fell to the dark side. Revan ignored morals and ideologies as a general, because he emphasized more on what was practical and as a result he was willing to sacrifice millions in order to save billions.
Jedi demonstrate keen insights into personnel and immense personal courage. However, their grasp of the tactical, operational, and strategic art and science of war. Jedi Generals often fail in maintaining logistical support for their operations, maintaining coordination and momentum at the operational level, and wasting lives and material in tactically flawed actions where these generals voluntarily demote themselves to ad-hoc squad and platoon leaders.
Just reminds me of Tarkin's words to Kanan:
"You do not know how to win a war. But *I* do."
@@2mccue4u27 accurate.
Perhaps then it'd be better for the Jedi, at least most of them, to be the leaders of smaller squads, perhaps utilizing the sword and shield technique from rebels and just being more Frontline support for the clones. Maybe somewhat more competent jedi like obi Wan as actual generals.
@@josephkim3443 Obi-Wan is a capable and inspiring leader but he's the wrong sort for a general. Honestly, he's an example of all the problems of Jedi Generalship.
His campaigns lack a firm logistical or strategic groundwork, resulting in significant operational failures that are bailed only by tactical brilliance at decisive points and at immense and unnecessary cost in time and lives.
The Liberation of Ryloth is a perfect example. Despite having near total orbital supremacy, sufficient that they evidently don't have to provide close support for the assault ships, there is no CAS missions being run. No fire support for Kenobi's initial landing. Not even recon overflights. These operational failings cost them an entire Acclamator and the division inside, a total of one-third of their force, while the approach to the village costs them 4 out of 6 gunships, another 120 men. By the end of it, they seem to lose at least another platoon, all because they completely failed to conduct any reconnaissance before the landing and failed to provide even limited support.
And why was there no support? Because they didn't want to damage Twi'lek property. So instead they risked the complete failure of the operation.
One of my favorite moments that relates to this is Etain Tur-Mukan telling her men that if she gives an order that doesn’t make sense, don’t follow it. She’s absolutely one of the most respectful and really self aware Jedi Order.
Ws she the one who died trying to protect the clones who were trying to kill padawans?
@@james501001 Yes.
I personally loved how in the Republic comics we see the Jedi stray down a darker path while trying to justify it. I mean religious monks would in my opinion not be great military commanders especially if there wasn't any major conflicts for over a 1000 years.
@@michaelandreipalon359 Vos and A'Sharad Hett were the highlight of those comics for me.
Best comics ever
Any military that hasn't seen action in a thousand years would suffer horribly in pretty much all aspects. As for monks being military commanders, you do have some historical examples such as the Knights Templars, Knights Hospitallers and Teutonic Knights which led armies quite effectively. Most of the time.
how kami turned down a darker path and piccolo rose up
@@Ashguy733 For me the Battle of Jabiim and Order 66 were the highlights. Even after Episode 3, TCW season 7, and Fallen Order I don't think anyone has topped Star Wars Endgame. That basically described, fleshed out, and showed Order 66 to it's fullest
I would think Jedi would function best as advisors to professional officers and as special small-unit teams for specific high-risk missions.
Kinda like what ahsoka did in the last arc of the clone wars?
What about as Consultants?
Yeah, their foresight is great at ruining enemy strategies, less so for making strategies of their own.
@@atiredail.e Anakin, Kenobi, and Ashoka all did it throughout the show. Quinlan Vos regularly did it
Yes
"We are keepers of the peace, not soldiers." - Mace Windu
Beheader of unarmed father
Two minutes later: *Fights droids and decapitates a bounty hunter in the middle of an arena*
The statement honestly made no sense at all. The Jedi fought several times during the Old Republic. Even during peace they fought. At best they were like monk UN Commandos
The biggest problem with Jedi Generals is the same problem that used to exist in European militaries. That problem being who you were ment more than how capable you were.
Yep. Those that figured that out and promoted competent people instead, regardless of background, where more successful.
@@ArmorDoge Major Cringe
@@ArmorDoge this statemrnt and the fact that you'd use an apostrophe to indicate plural shows how daft you are
"I am the very model of a modern major general, I've information vegetable, animal and mineral, I know the kings of England and I quote the fights historical, from Marathon to Waterloo in order categorical...." Knew everything there was to know except how to do their job. lol
*meant
When you take into account the fact that the CIS was mainly just outer rim worlds (important enough to gather resources from, but nothing else), the clone wars essentially boils down to asset retainment.
Keep the core worlds happy, while not giving a shit about those on distant, and possibly even hellish planets.
One of the themes of the Prequels was that the Separatists was formed especially because the majour corporations, like the Trade Federation, Commerce Guilds, Techno Union and the Banking Clan, wanted to do anancap and break free of Republic supervision. A big part of TPM's politics is about a tax dispute. Attack of the Clones is when the neolibs take up arms against the central government and fund a hostile takeover.
There's no similar experience in the real world. It would be the equivalent of having those companies that exploit the countries in the periphery of capitalism suddenly lost support from the countries that they spawned from, then took over those territories and began a war against the main capitalist rich countries. Which never happened, because the big corporations rule both the peripheric countries and the central ones.
Not completely simple. We don’t actually know how much of a percentage of the CIS was made up of these worlds. There were a number of worlds dragged into the CIS by megacorps and also a lot of worlds that joined out of revenge to the Republic, like the Zygerrian Slave Empire. Of course, the richer Republic worlds and megacorps would be in the war for these greedy and selfish reasons, but Palpatine and Dooku likely transformed the war into one of survival to get many other worlds to side with the Republic. Hence the use of the megacorps and their droid armies. So thus a very mixed and grey war. Both sides had exploiters who wanted to increase their profit and territory. Both sides had people who fell victim to the first category of members. A very grey war.
You also underscore how much of a trap the Clone Wars was for the Jedi. They had the option of just staying out of the conflict but that would have hurt their image. They also had the option of joining the Separatists which would have been worse. With the added muddling of their Force abilities, Palpatine made the perfect conditions that would essentially destroy the Order.
Technically you could say even if the Jedi wanted to stay out, they kind of had a duty to get involved. Jedi after all are supposed to protect the galaxy from the Sith, which Dooku was. Now if the Separatists never attacked, the Jedi would still have a fair point of staying out of the war. The problem is since Palpatine and Dooku are working together, a Separatist invasion of the Republic was inevitable, even if the CIS population didn’t agree. Millions probably would love to take revenge, but the others would probably have a hit on their faith to Dooku. Anyways, since Dooku was once one of the Jedi’s own, they may have felt responsible to bring him in. This kind of further solidifies how perfect the Clone Wars were. If anything the Jedi couldn’t try to avoid the conflict, not with Palpatine controlling both sides. Their best move would have been investigating the mysterious nature of things around them as soon as the war began instead of waiting until the last year of the war. They started their investigation into the clone army far too late. If in less than a year they found out Dooku made the clone army and if they also knew the whole time of Darth Sidious, then if they started their investigation at the start of the Clone Wars, they likely would have found out about Palpatine by perhaps the middle of the war or at worst the start of the third year of the conflict. The earlier they put the pieces together the better. In the first half of the war they could present this to the Senate and the public. The Senate would take long to come to a conclusion on the findings and accusation, but Palpatine can’t commit Order 66 because he wouldn’t have all of the power he needed like the banks for instance and with the revelation of his ties to Dooku who ordered the implantation of the inhibitor chips, people would see Order 66 as a coup attempt. Now if the Jedi figured things out in the second half of the war, which would be after the failed peace attempt between the Republic and the Separatists, they would have to do some dark stuff. They probably would have to assassinate Palpatine and go into hiding since they would be accused as Separatist colluders. It would take some time after this dirty act for the galaxy to realize the Jedi saved them, but it’s better than trying the first plan in the wrong part of the war.
Anakin said to a Captain Tarkin while escaping the Citadel during the Clone Wars, "I've also found that we sometimes fall short of victory because of our methods"".
In The Battle of Rythlon Jedi Ethics did limit them. There is a good scene of Obi Wan saying NO HEAVY WEAPONS like Rocket launchers much to the clones disagreement...
As others have mentioned, sadly the Republic at this time, were so devoid of a functioning Military hierarchy, they had little choice on who to draw upon to lead their war machine.
The Jedi were seen as super-humans and many thought that people of this calibre would bring super-abilities to their fighting force.
Of course, personal physical ability means little in the grand theatre of conflict and only hard earned experience, would inevitably win out.
Again, at that time, NO ONE in the Republic had said experience.
Now, having the Clone Troopers with an indoctrinated mindset towards tactics and perhaps strategic knowledge, was certainly an asset but as they were developed as "followers" not "Leaders" they would have proved detrimental as Generals having to make overwhelming decisions just as much as the Jedi.
Having the Clones act as advisors and confidantes to the Jedi, eventually turned out pretty good teams, with only a few Jedi so powerdrunk they ignored advice.
This is similar to many human cultures' military strategem. You have neophyte Officers that are guided and matured by Sergeants, who know the game inside out in the field of their particular expertise. Eventually, after receiving mentorship from a variety of Sergeants, many of these green-gills become damn fine Officers.
0:58 "eckcellent"
Good one
Name idea for the marvel/heroes/comics channel: EchkartsHeroes. There's a simplicity to it that feels fitting.
Hm...the Senate did have a military wing (among them was Tarkin's family!) and there were officers (Yularen for example, but also Tarkin himself!) so the Jedi were not especially needed, but Palpatine wanted them there (so he could thin them out, while also setting them up of course!)
Clonewars was there for me when dad wasn't.
Damn..
Most Jedi should have been assigned to clone commando squads as a member.
The commandos were allready highly effective, having a force bag of tricks and a lightsaber to screen incoming fire would have been very effective, had the point been to win the war rather than exhaust and kill the Jedi.
I think the Jedi should have remained independent from the command structure. Never in the spotlight.
Have the Jedi receive requests or observe intel and have them judge where they should step in. You know things like "if we don't then the tide of the war will change"
A clone seeing a Jedi would immediately know that shit is about to get ugly because of their role.
What's shorter than a Ladder? A stepstool.
Therefore, the shorts channel should be called:
Eckhart's Stepstool
7:00 remidner Ahsoka at this point was also literally a child soldier.
God! I love the final part with the dog! it's Hilarious
i didt saw the last clip coming🤣🤣love the ending!!🤣
I'd like to see a battle breakdown on the Battle of Yuuzhan'tar/the battle of Mon Calamari. How did the GA win these battles?
I believe that the only reason that Jedi performed so poorly, especially at the beginning of the war is that they were not taught to be leaders in a war not because the fact that they were Jedi held them back as we see numerous times during the old republic that there were times when the Jedi had been among the best tacticians and strategist the republic had.
i always had the impression, that the Jedi Order where right there where Palps wanted them, slowly worn down by the CIS and getting a killing blow at the End.
No Matter how good they are in a Command Role, as if Palps cared for anyone, yet alone Clones. hmmmm
maybe an Idea for a Galtic Versus Video: What if Palpatine would have been outed/exposed or otherwise removed from Office right before the start of the Clone Wars, maybe even while Episode 2 for good fun so the Wheels are already in Motion and it's to late to Stop
I really like how you explain things - particularly that we have a "General Kenobi" and how he got that rank and it make sense now that Palatine used this to exploit his agenda.
Remember the original movie made things so vague that you could extrapolate new meanings years later.
The Jedi failed because the vast majority of them were out of touch both in combative nature, and tactical ingenuity. While some earned their merit, like Anakin and Plo Koon, many more were incompetent, self sabotaging, or outright cruel to their clones. In a sense, the Clone Wars was putting the Jedi’s worst on full display.
I can see some of that, but how many were cruel other than Pong Krell who was…. Ya know, Krell lol
Okay, speaking strictly about Disney Canon I can see the incompetence and self-sabotaging roles of the Jedi in the Clone Wars, but cruel? That definitely seems like a case by case basis. While I would say Legends Jedi act far colder to the clones and are dismissive of them due to their warlike and obedient mindsets while Canon Jedi are far more compassionate and empathetic to their troops, I wouldn’t say most Jedi in either continuity were outright cruel. Now Krell is an obvious exception. I have little doubt his personality didn’t change between him being a loyal Republic Jedi and being a traitor wanting to serve Dooku. And Legends Quinlan Vos along with General Kota have similar mindsets. Heck, Canon Jedi probably would take some issues with their Legends counterparts even though besides the treatment of the clones little else was so different between them. However I would say at most Jedi in both continuities are worst are cold and fail to understand the circumstances of others. Cruelty seems a lot more exceptional, something you see in those that become Sith. Many Jedi of course got really close to the Dark Side thanks to their experiences in the Clone Wars, but while many times they waded in that pool, they usually tried to swim back to shore, even if they sometimes were unsuccessful. Even Jedi that are cold and lack empathy at least try to preserve life, as seen by how many Jedi at least try to keep clones alive even if their Legends versions never created the smallest of bonds. These cruel Jedi even in the Clone Wars were kind of rare, though probably far more prominent than ever in the history of the galaxy. After all in Disney Canon, many Jedi did become Inquisitors, just one step away from being Sith Apprentices. Still, if I was a clone trooper I would choose to serve a Canon Jedi then a Legends Jedi. I would have a better chance of getting a Jedi who cares instead of one just focusing on their duty.
The whole "jedi were incompetent commnaders" or "treated clones badly" is mostly fan headcanon.
It was only traviss who tried to introduce it in the story to hype up her mandalorians and clone because she liked them more than jedi.
@@james501001 Eh, to be fair, Genesis is kind of counter to that. And on Tech, climbing up a cliffside while being shot at also seems stupid. Not to mention Jedi stand out in the open and kind of encourage their clone troopers to be right with them. And in Legends, there seems to be more distrust between Jedi and clones. I would say that Traviss just exaggerated these qualities of the Jedi-Clone relationship in her Republic Commando books.
I have to say that while I'm a major clone fan, works like Republic Commando kind of make me prefer the regular clones over the special forces clones. The special forces kind of have an advantage in just being designed differently by the Kaminoans, making them more independent thinking. Legends ARC troopers, Legends clone commandos, and now Canon Bad Batch. They're intentionally-with the exception of the Null ARCS-designed to act more like Jango Fett so they can be more effective. This quality of the special forces seems to have led to them getting some type of preferential treatment from their Mandalorian trainers. Nothing too unique, more like the Mandalorians took more interest in these clones and taught them Mandalorian culture while kind of just focusing only on training for the rest of the army. Later on, when the regular clones dislike Mandalorians who have been attacking them, they get ticked at the special forces for embracing Mandalorian culture. The special forces take offense and get into arguments with these guys, but it seems kind of unfair. After all, the Mandalorians acted as a family to the special forces while they only acted as drill sergeants for the regular troopers.
Another thing I have to say is the lack of nuance. Now clearly Traviss shows the Separatists as enemies, but she makes the main antagonists be agents of the Republic. Not just the guys who are on Palpatine's side, but she also adds the Jedi there too. Yes, the Jedi are the generals in an army of what can basically be called slaves, but they also are kind of the ones who inspire the regular troopers to become more independent thinking. Now, this happens more in Canon than in Legends to be fair, but the story kind of forgets that the Republic is transitioning from an era of peace to a time of war. While there are ethical issues with using a clone army, they kind of have no choice being under attack by massive droid armies without their own military to defend themselves. If the options are between forcing somebody to fight to defend you or being invaded and conquered, most people probably would choose the former. Honestly, the decision to use the clones should be seen as an unfortunate necessity, one that could have been avoided if there had never been a war, but now that there is they have little choice.
And now the Mandalorians. I have to admit I have some disagreement with how she kind of makes them morally superior to the Jedi. To be honest, they're kind of similar. For one thing, they both induct children into their ranks. Mandalorians choose kids who have lost everybody they care for in war while the Jedi induct children from their families. Neither practice can really be called immoral considering the circumstances as in the case of the Mandalorians, the kids have nowhere to go. In the case of the Jedi, they usually ask and given that force-wielders can be so powerful, it's usually a good idea to have them train their abilities. Of course, one key difference between the Mandalorians and the Jedi is when their views on violence and action. Mandalorians like combat. I mean, they kind of have to if a majority of their economy in the Legends novels under Boba Fett's reign comes from their bounty hunter jobs and they are divided into warrior clans. Jedi on the other hand see violence more as an unfortunate action that must be avoided until there is no choice. Times like the Clone Wars and the Mandalorian Crusades are kind of exceptions when you think about it. Most of the time the Jedi do act as peacekeepers and most of the time the Mandalorians act as mercenaries who may kill people on a regular basis. While Mandalorians are honorable, I would think the moral high ground would be slightly more onto the Jedi's side. Sure, the Clone Wars aren't the Jedi at their best. But their intentions are still noble. According to Legends, Spar, a clone trooper deserter, formed his own version of the Mandalorian Protectors and became the leader of Mandalore after Satine was killed and Maul was imprisoned by Palpatine. He then dragged Mandalore into the Clone Wars and had a policy not to take prisoners. To be fair he hated the Republic and the Jedi for using the clones who had no real stake in the war and it was the popular public sentiment that initially led to Satine's downfall. However, you have to remember that Mandalore was practically the leader of the Council of Neutral Systems, thus holding sway over thousands of star systems. Maul wanted to use this influence to create a criminal empire. What exactly did Spar do with that power? Since he brings back Mangalore's warrior culture, nothing good in my opinion.
The Mandalorian warrior culture is treated as a great thing, as a true honor. And to be fair, it probably is. Joining a warrior clan sure seems cool. But the fact that most clone characters in the RC series join a clan seems troubling. In Canon, we got to see clone troopers in peaceful lives outside of the military like Cut or Rex and his team in Rebels. In Legends, every clone deserter or clone who survives the war is only a bounty hunter, mercenary, or Mandalorian. Again to be fair, the clone troopers were soldiers, that was how they were raised. Naturally, they would have to take jobs like these to survive. But the fact that we never see any clone troopers being farmers like Cut or trying some land version of fishing like Rex and his team seems to imply that even in retirement, clone troopers couldn't live in peace. Now a lot of fans wish that in an alternate timeline where Palpatine lost, the clone troopers would after the Clone Wars be allowed to go to Mandalore where they would join the clans. The thing is, how is this better than their previous lives? Now again, they will be surrounded by people who may respect them. In the Republic military, it usually was just the Jedi who treated them kindly. Mandalorians might act hostile at first as we see in Canon since the clones were their enemies, but the Legends clans seem like they would warm up to the newcomers quickly. The thing is that if Mandalore brings back its warrior culture, what's stopping them from becoming conquerors again? At the very least, it seems like they would mobilize their forces to try and take revenge against the Republic, as this probably was the main reason Spar got Mandalore involved in the Clone Wars on the side of the Separatists. Of course, to do that, they are going to have to gather resources. What better way to do so than by conquering the Mandalore Sector and the neutral worlds? The Mandalorians may instead decide to institute a mercenary culture as the Mandalorian Protectors were based on the True Mandalorians who preferred mercenary work over war, hence why they opposed the Death Watch. However, the True Mandalorians fought more so to make Mandalorian culture an organized mercenary one instead of being criminals and raiders who caused suffering for suffering itself. Instead of advocating for Mandalorians to work in any job, they advocated making a mercenary army. Seems like something that can easily be used to wage war instead of just taking jobs. When it comes down to it, the question would be how much do the Mandalorians actually want revenge against the Jedi and the Republic? Are they willing to conquer and kill for it, or would they think the Clone Wars would be punishment enough? Not to mention further on the clones don't actually escape violence and the horrors of war. In the aftermath of the Clone Wars, there likely would be many smaller conflicts the Mandalorians would work in. The clones would just be trading one organization for another. Except for this time, there is no end. Clone service likely would end with the Clone Wars given how expensive they were. In a timeline where Palpatine loses, the Jedi likely would train the clones to transition into the civilian field. But if they were just sent to Mandalore, they have to keep fighting because it's the only way to really make money.
At this point, I'm just rambling on and on. The basic point is that in my opinion Traviss just took the great qualities in clone troopers and Mandalorians and upped them to possibly extreme levels.
@@james501001 Traviss never wrote them to treat clones badly on purpose and had multiple great Jedi in her books. The Jedi being incompetent and prone to impulsiveness due to being out of their depth was always a part of the Lucas canon, as seen in content like the Republic comics. It makes sense, since they’re isolated space monks who haven’t seen war in 1,000 years.
Also you can’t just pick and choose between official licensed material to call what doesn’t suit your tastes “fan headcanon” lmao
Bardan Jusik did asked the council at one moment how they can justify the use and breeding of clones for the use of the republic. Later on resigning his commission as general and leaving the order completely only to join the mandalorians
Since I am sure Luke was more than aware of the role that the Clone Wars played in the fall of his father, and the CW era Jedi Order as a whole, his thoughts maken total sense. Having such an example weaved into his family history, it's only logical that he would be highly skeptical of the Jedi order being used as a branch of the New Republic Military...
I like the Legends Legacy era where the Jedi and the New Republic are separate entities while the Sith and the Fel Empire are also separate entities.it was nice to see religious orders orthogonal to the the different political orders, though the legacy series essentially starts with the Sith deposing the Fel Emperor.
Complaints are made about Jedi being generals during the clone wars, but others being made about them not taking part in the Mandalorian Wars.
@Darth Revan I can see that, and it makes sense. It’s just they got judgement for not fighting. Then during the clone wars they got judgement for…. Fighting.
#AskEck Is Obi-Wan really The Master of The High Ground, or The Low Ground? He had the low ground against Darth Maul, and he managed to defeat him with a surprise attack. He defeated Anakin, when Anakin jumped over him on Mustafar, allowing him to sever his arm, and legs. And, in The Obi-Wan show, he was losing to Vader, until he nearly got buried alive (Which would mean he was on low ground, compared to Vader, then, he kicked Vader's A$$ soon after. Have we got it all wrong about Obi-Wan's elevation-related advantages/talents?
Clearly he is the master of elevation.
Ah, this is something I have seen quite frequently- Here is how I view it. Many who make this point forget that Obi-Wan has “mastered high ground techniques”. This implies that others, such as Maul, have had less or no training regarding this matter. What this means is that Obi-Wan is aware of situations when others, less initiated than himself, are using high ground against him, allowing him to play towards their weakness of being unfamiliar with such elevations.
In conclusion, Obi-Wan has the high ground, but if he doesn’t, he will soon.
Sources(1): (mastery of high ground techniques) it was revealed to me in a dream
@@whydontyouhandledeez thats Why He lost in death Star. They were on an even Level.
He is the master of ground
@EckhartsLadder battle command is fundamentally different from strategic and tactical command. the clone officers would have suffered as well because they only trained for command at most a squad or company level.
Love your videos bro, but man they always leave me wanting more. Any thoughts on doing long form content? I got a lot of free time in my job since it's driving lol.
There are a few Jedi's who are capital of strategic and grasp on operations. But most of them aren't always for military.
And that's why most clones resented their Jedi generals. Because most Jedi caused needless heavy clone casualties due to their incompetence.
Thats not canon at all.
We havent seen any evidence most jedi are inconpetent
@@vetarlittorf1807 thats only canon in Karen Traviss novels where she explicitly tried to make the clones better and the jedi worse because she preferred macho military over space wizards
@@james501001 No. It's how the EU portrayed the Jedi.
@@vetarlittorf1807 No. Thats only how Karen Traviss portrayed them because she disliked them. The rest of the EU portrayed them the opposite way
Maybe the other channel could be called “ Eck’s heroes” or “Eckhart’s heroes” on account of the Marvel, DC, and other content there! Or maybe Eck’s Comics.
Great content eck thanks
I’d see a galaxy-wide policy that force sensitives that join a military should be restricted to a special corps and only be promoted or given political office by merit like any other citizen regardless of third party involvement. An organization like the Galactic Alliance would be the exception to this, not the rule.
There were only a few Jedi who were true "commanders" in that sense.
One of them was Master Oppo Rancisis, the hairy snake guy on the Jedi Council in the Prequels.
He was a master strategist and a master of battle meditation, a Force skill which could literally turn the tide of battles.
But he died towards the end of the Clone Wars during a Separatist ambush on Salucamai.
If Marvel clips is also doing stuff from DC and the Boys, you might want to rename it something along the lines of 'Super Clips'.
0:24 -0:38 What episode of Clone Wars is that? Please and Thank You.
Finally give me the juicy details
You could call the new channel Eck-cetera. Since it covers a little bit of everything from Marvel, DC, The Boys, etc.
The political relationship between jedi and republic is, imo, one of the most fascinating aspects of the lore that I wish was expired more in newer canon.
This gets me thinking about all the different alternative paths the Jedi could have taken towards the Republic across their shared history. It seems obvious to me that they failed that most basic strategic axiom for all low-to-no intensity conflict: keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Had the Jedi had more contacts in the bureaucracy and business sector, they may have had a much better idea of the corrupted state of the Republic or actively resisted it from the beginning. In many ways Jedi make the most sense as advisors to people with power who respect wisdom than trying to lead warriors in battle.
EckhartsEtc for the other channel?
I got a name idea. Eckstra. Cuz it’s the extra channel lol
Name Suggestion: Eckhart's escalator
I have an idea you can use for the Marvel clips channel name to match the profile pic as well, "EckhartsIron".
Jedi definitely seemed most effective working with ground special forces, it allows them to use their strengths better and they're already used to leading small Jedi strike teams instead of battalions
As a soldier, I would not want to follow Jedi into combat. I remember watching the first movie with clones, the Battle of Geonosis, and watching absolute scores of Clones die because of the Jedi. The fight would have very evidently been won before the Jedi joined the battle. They had equipment they knew how to use, tactics and education in warfare. All of that thrown away in seconds because the Jedi led them on a charge. And what's worse, is you can see the Jedi rolling forward deflecting shots meant for them, but let rounds kill troopers DIRECTLY behind them. In the Clone Wars series you see this even more clearly, with only three (Anikan, Ashoka and Obi-Wan) trying to protect their charges during an assault, and even then, only Ashoka makes the effort for all of them in later seasons. I feel like this is reflected pretty well when the clones receive order 66, with some being reluctant, others pouring fire into the Jedi well after their deaths.
Tactically, the Jedi are just not competent. I would not want to be even near one, ever. As an old soldier sees it that is.
i've heard the clones firing like that on aayla secura was to ensure a quick death, as she was one of their favorite jedi. i think ki adi mundi wasnt as well liked
Could someone kindly tell me what the clip sources are in this video? I've seen the Clone Wars animation (not all of it) but some of the animation here is miles better in terms of visual quality but I do not know what it is from
Some of it must be from Clone Wars season 7
The best way to utilize the Jedi would have been as shock troops, seeing as their Force powers made them the equivalent of super soldiers.
Hey Eck's in your future video's could you make a small video detailing on the Jedi's fate over order 66 did you like them or not if if you were given the choice to save 2 or 3 of the and later join Luke Skywalker's Jedi academy who would the be?
Good luck on making more video's I really enjoy them.
Did the Jedi make good military leaders in war? For the Clone Wars, I would say they were never perfect. They were certainly worse at the beginning as they knew nothing of war. Most Star Wars and real life militaries don’t usually have teenagers or people with lightsabers leading whole battalions of starfighter squadrons into battle against an army or fleet of robots. Ahsoka at the Battles of Ryloth and Felucia show this at their best when her arrogance leads to her forces nearly getting wiped out by a larger Separatist force. Over time the Jedi got better, likely listening more to their clone troopers and more experienced military officers. However their career as soldiers of course clashed with their morals. Did the Jedi maintain them in the war? Again, mixed performance. When it came to simply sparing civilians and saving their lives, I would say this was a constant for the Jedi throughout the war. They rarely if ever exploited the civilians and made sure they got to safety. However they did adopt some dark tactics like assassinating targets and faking surrenders. When it came to how they influenced fellow personnel, once more a mixed bag. Clone Troopers of course respected them and took note of whatever teachings they got since the Jedi made up most of the people who gave them respect. However there were also clones who likely viewed the Jedi as not going far enough to win and being weak. These clones likely developed such personalities thanks to the non-Jedi/Clone officers. These officers had some respect for the Jedi due to the chain of command and many having personal experiences with them. However many, especially those that had gone up against pirates, gangs, and other threats in the era of peace before the Clone Wars viewed the Jedi as not going far enough to win, believing that harsher tactics would destroy the Separatists. Would I want a Jedi as a military officer. It’s a tough call for me. On the one hand they probably would need a lot of teaching in how to fight a war. A lot. On the other hand though, at least there’s a higher chance a Jedi will respect the rules of combat. Between the military officers and guerrilla leaders that were on both sides of the Clone Wars, the Jedi were probably the most moral. The times they violated the rules of war usually were in situations they perceived as desperate and affected few non-combatants. Compared to how Tarkin, the one of the highest non-Jedi Republic military officers and Grievous who was the general in command of the Droid Army were brutal, vicious, and worked with like-minded individuals across their career, the Jedi were probably saints. Honestly, I would like having a Jedi as a leader in my military. Better they have to be taught how to fight and lead a military than to be taught how to bet merciful and compassionate. It’s far harder to learn these latter traits in war.
Can you do a video on what you think the best way for the Jedi to enter the clone wars would be?
Eks clips as a name for the new channel?
I personally think yoda new about palatine Anakin turning to the dark side and padme but realised it was the only way to bring balance to the force
It was a wonderful play by Palpatine to have the Jedi as Military Leaders. They had been the Judicial enforcers for the Republic for so long that having them shown using more force to "Subjugate" enemies of the Republic. Also he played on their Hubris of thinking the Force would yank them from the fire, and it did many times and only cost the death of so many slave soldiers... or "Clone" soldiers. The Jedi could be great tactical leaders on the ground. But they had no business being the Strategic leaders of the Republic. You will not get good results across the board when you take the martial artist diplomats and put them in charge of running a war.
They'd be better as captains or lieutenants.
Commanding maybe a platoon instead of an army.
Let's say Palpatine wasn't working to become the Emperor and all that, and we see them being put to good use. A test to see where they would do good as I see some comments saying they should only be part of small forces but there could be some Jedi who would be better in an open battlefield.
While some would be good in a military main leader position most I would see them being in a (taking from 40k here) a dual psyker-priest role.
About the battle of Geonosis to be fair i can't see an Acclamator take down a Lucrehulk, at that time they don't had Venators and Acclamators are lightly equipped transports.
About the jedi beign keepers of the peace, "Si vis pacem, para bellum", if you want peace prepare to war, the jedi are a fearsome force multiplier for the Republic, they are bound to serve if the republic is in danger, if you have the power to save someone and you don't because some moral crap you are an accomplice of the killer.
Regarding the Jedi entering the Clone Wars - the Seps were being led by Dooku aka. a Sith. As far as the Jedi knew, if they didn't help, a) the clones would be treated even worse than what we see and suffer more casualties, and b) Dooku - who has already taken an Apprentice (Assajj), could be the start of a whole new crop of Sith, which are Jedi are historically not in favour of.
Also, the Seps had such groups as the Zygerrians, who were quickly falling back into their slave-trading ways. The Seps, if they gained their independence, would seem to be much more open to slavery, which the Jedi are against. Also also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Senate basically strong-armed the Jedi into leading - if the Chancellor/Senate tells them to help, how the heck could the Jedi have turned them down?
Whether or not the Jedi 'should' have gotten involved in the war, there were internal and external pressures that all pointed to it being necessary. From their point of view, they didn't exactly have much choice.
I was thinking about this very topic the other day. The Republic really needed a true separation of powers and a system of checks and balances. While that is somewhat present in the parliamentary system by which the senate operates, the judicial system and Jedi need to be kept far away and have clearly designated powers in the government documents. Perhaps they could even be combined with the two branches of the Republic being: Jedi+Judicial and Senate+Chancellor. The lack of clear legal basis is what Palpatine was able to manipulate in his claims against the Jedi after order 66. The installation of the Jedi into the military during conflict could then be pulled back upon either the Senate or Chancellor's request, and (more importantly) they wouldn't be automatically granted high ranks. A great many Jedi generals would likely be far better as Jedi colonials or captains or could serve in true support roles.
The jedi should've stepped back and took a more back seat approach after Geonosis. Count their losses and remain mostly out of the war. "We are keepers of the peace. Not soldiers."
The jedi should've only inserted themselves on rare occasions and remain away from combat and warfare.
They didn't, because the Sith were openly leading the CIS. They could not stay neutral anymore. In fact, the sole purpose of placing an openly Sith Count Dooku at the head of the separatist war effort was to reel the Jedi in. Leave it untended, the Sith would conquer the galaxy by that method
How would staying out of the war make sense considering their role?
@@james501001 because they are peace keepers. Not soldiers. Should've only intervened to broker peace talks
Could you do a video on the average life span of a clone fighter pilot or even bomber pilot or any clone navy memeber in general
I suggest the name Ecklips or Eclips for your clips channel.
It would have made much more sense that if the jedi were to be integrated into the republic military during the clone wars to have most of them having a position more closely related to their specialty within the order.
New channel name idea eckHEROSladder?
You should call your new channel Eckhartsheros
in my opinion it depends on jedi (anakin and obi wan are greate strategiests but guys like pong krell arent) so in my opinion republic should test the strategic minds of the jedi individually meaking some of them generals and some of them normal soldiers
Superclips would be a good name for the clips channel
EckhartsBasement, best name
The supers clips? since it is covering super powered being? XD
#AskEck Who would win? A Devaronian Sith Lord, or Darth Maul? Battle of The Devils!
Definitely a zabrak would win as they will wear down an opponent.
Duel of the Horns
A show set 1000 years before palpatine would be an entire new universe. Put Filoni or favreau in charge and I would be so down for that.
AskEch: How did the republic get around the Roussan Reformation to build up their own forces? Did they just abolish it or is there any more interesting story to it? Or is the emergency powers Palpatine got in Ep 2 the extent of it?
New name for MarvelClips might me "SuperEck"
I watched the episode on my new tv
I have to agree with the changes in the show.
I was rewatching the first season as well after and wow they’ve made leaps and bounds in the lightning department
I have an LG OLED and wow the OLED makes the lighthing for the blacks and whites unreal
What do you mean Eck? The entire Clone Wars were artificially influenced from the start, the fact that the Republic was going to win was never in question? Palpatine needed to soften the Jedi up, both in the public's mind and through years of War in their own minds.
I think the Jedi were definitely an asset during the clone wars, but were poorly suited to the role of General. They're an obvious force multiplier (no pun intended), but by the time of the clone wars they had been so far removed from warfare, politics, and strategy, and the republic had been at peace for long, that they had lost much of their strategic military cunning. Due to this, I feel they would have been better utilized in more limited roles, either by attaching them to special forces units in the case of jedi who were especially adept at combat, such as Anakin, Obi Wan, Kit Fisto, and Plo Koon; or using them as advisors, counsellors, and "seers" (of sorts) to assist with battle PLANNING (while not overseeing or commanding troops in live engagements directly) in the case of jedi who were particularly intuitive, wise, and had a solid grasp on reading the future such as Ki Adi Mundi, Yoda, or Mace Windu.
hey please like but idea a few scorpnek annihilator droids verse an umbara mobile heavy canon
I’d like „SuperEck“ or „SuperEcki“ as name for your new channel 🤔
Didn’t the Jedi later adapt to a military role and help win major battles. Which I guess got covered by Palpatine to promote the larger warships.
The Jedi were incompetent field commanders and remained such through much of the war. Jedi strategy constantly came with heavy clone casualties because most Jedi saw them as nothing more than tools like the CIS' battle droids so they didn't care if their plans were asinine and bled the GAR so long as it got them the victory. That's a terrible way to lead the army. But given the Jedi's penchant for outright war crimes, I'm not surprised that didn't know how to care for an army just how to use it as a club to mindlessly bludgeon the Separatists.
You are wrong.
Everything you just said is wrong , exaggerated or straight up lie. The jedi were some of the best leaders the republic had, they were in large part the backbone of the Republics defense, their leadership lead the republic to to many important victories victories both in past conflicts and in the clone wars. Idiots tend to asume that being a peacekeper means that you can't fight or lead when you have to. Also there is no solid evidence or record that shows that every jedi had high casualties that is just your headcanon. What you said about the Jedi treating the clones as tools is a straight up lie, the jedi are taught to respect life in all its forms, the vast majority jedi treated the clones with respect and saw them as human beings not tools. Finally we have no records of what counts as a war crime in star wars galaxy we don't get a lot of information behind the specifics of galactic law. I really doubt that most jedi commited any war crimes.
Hero'Harts would be a good name for your hero based channel, simple, a nod to this channel and has alliteration. The name might be taken thou.
I mean, i don't think the jedi make for effective high echelon military commanders. Jedi would probably have been better used in small direct action units or integrated into commando teams.
Or alternatively, having them act as their own individual organization separate from the GAR entirely.
I like the name EckstraClips
Btw why nobody create some kind of hyperspace torpedo which could easily cut thru everything
What about Hero Clips?
Question: in star wars they never had any kind of hyperspace long distant rockets, right? Any torpedo that I shoot from a distant space station or planet, that enters hyperspace and travels to any target in the galaxy I want. Why sending a fleet and an army to attack a planet, risking value equpiment and lifes, instead of sending autonomus missles?
I am not deep enough into star wars lore to know how hyperspace travel is achieved and what the exact rules are (for range, energy requirement, etc) but I feel like if I can teleport X wings with this ring attachment thing around the galaxy that I can do the same with an explosive. Or thousands of them.
I think it's a mixed bag. On one hand you get Obi-Wan and Anakin who actually did a good job, on the other... you have guys like Pong Krell.
eck's superpills
Krell proved why Jedi should not be given complete control over the army
I think they jedi should done of being a jack of all trades assigned their ranks according to their disposition if one jedi is better at being a general go be ground troops of another is better at being an admital go and send it to the navy, it would lessen the burden of having the inappropriate leader in the war
That they were inevitably going to be incompetent at the job of leading an army due to having no proper officer training or military strategy experience? Say it ain’t so.
Jedi shouldn't have cammanded fleets because the Republic had a lot of capable naval officers such as Tarkin Yularen and every other future imperial admiral