The Strange Single-Ship Fleets of Star Wars, Explained
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2022
- Although Star Wars in known for fleets made up of Massive Imperial Star Destroyers, these fleets, which are designed and comprised of one ship, take it to the next level. We'll cover that and more on today's Star Wars Lore video!
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It's the strangest thing: I thought I heard somebody talking about ships, but I couldn't hear him, because I was too busy walking around in my HIGHLY affordable ALL TERRAIN PERSONAL TRANSPORT. It was pretty nice: the rain couldn't hit me, because the cockpit COVERS me, the legs made difficult terrain EASY to pilot through, and my TWO Blaster Cannons deter both bandits AND most wildlife. After that, I stowed it in the back of my TOTALLY NOT STOLEN Lambda Shuttle.
...
/s
Fighting words.
The ATAP is the best.
Sir do you have a license for that there walker?
@@EckhartsLadder I actually like the AT-PT. Fight me.
@@starsilverinfinity It’s called a ‘loicense’.
The Crimson Command VSD fleet's red color comes from the metal used in their construction. There was a metal shortage so instead of having the VSD hull's sit unfinished in the shipyard, Someone made the choice to finish them in havod alloy in order to clear space. Other than that they are no different than standard VSD2's
Havod is VERY slightly stronger than what's normally mixed into Doonium Durasteel and in normal circumstances it's also more expensive than the durability is worth. BUT dur to the market there was a havod boom amd doonium shortage at that time of year, in that par of the galaxy, located entirely within that shipyard.
@@DIEGhostfish Yep Yep Havod is good on a smaller scale but when you're making something of that size it's not worth. I mean as far as I know only two People actually like the Crimson command, that being Zsinj and Teradoc...
@@valnira1147 eh nobody really would turn that many 900 meter monsters. Unless they performed as hilariously poorly as they did in their novel introduction.
Interesting. I feel like that may have been mentioned in the novels but I forgot
Makes sense tbh, especially if the fleet was created during the Empire's height. So much of the Doonium would have been going to the Death Star, that shipyards located closer to other metal sources would have used those instead.
God, I love when Star Wars has economics lol
My headcannon is that programming the Starforge is a massive project. It is so alien to the modern galaxy that only a few scientists have probably ever fully understood the process.
Plus spooling up a moon-sized factory would take months.
I think the Star Forge issue was partial limitations and partly getting stuck in a mindset in universe. They found a toy, didn't bother to understand what it could really do and just had it repeat print the same thing because it was easier. Game development, it was cheaper and faster to copy/paste the model than build a whole fleet.
It speaks more about the original users of the Star Forge (or a lack of maintenance) if anything. Either they only had it make a few ships themselves, OR they had it make a variety but most of the templates were lost/removed in the time between its initial disuse and its rediscovery.
@@SephirothRyu could be right. Sense Revan likely found it during the Mandolorian Wars there really wasn't too much time for the people he had to actually learn what it could do.
I think you're missing one possibility, that the Sith forces of Darth Revan only understood the Star Forge enough to instruct it to produce one ship type, one fighter type, and one droid type.
Anything more could've been currently beyond them.
After all it is a technology that's at least Millenia old, who's workings seem never have been replicated.
@@garygcrook considered, ans actually commented about. Different response. But Revan really didn't have enough time to figure out the Forge and Malak didn't care enough. Revan was the actual brains of the duo. Malak is displayed as seeing the Darkside as a blunt instrument, which is why the Jedi Civil War started to go against him after he rebelled against Revan.
You know what kinda bugs me, if we just take the original trilogy as it is, the entire imperial fleet is just ISDs, one executor and two Death Stars.
The entire imperial fleet is made out of Imperial Class Stardestroyers and a few variations of TIE Fighters and Shuttles, nothing more. Biggest single Type fleet ever is the one over Endor.
Technically they retconned a Tector or two into the Endor fleet, and I think the implication is that the Thrawn trilogy retconned Victory class star destroyers into it as well. Pellaeon had just the remnants of the Death Squadron, and Thrawn seems to have more Victories than Imperials. And a few Interdictors as well, although he could have gotten them from the shipyards or imperial donaitons.
But yes. Between the Gladiators, the Victories, the Venators, the Imperials, the Tectors, Allegiances and the myriad of smaller ships. Dreadnaughts, Carracks, Lancers, Nebulon-Bs, Arquitenses, Strike Cruisers and what not. It would be nice to see a greater variety on screen.
@@Duchess_Van_Hoof yeah, the Tector is technical a Retcon Ship of an upside down ISD without hangarbay. Basically a fix of an error they made during filming, because they didn't had a detailed model of the top side of an ISD, so they used the button model the had from the openingfrom A New Hope.
But this happens so fast, most people never noticed until it got pointed out after fans began analyzing the movies inside and out frame by frame.
I think I read the first time about it in 2004.
The ISD was designed to be a fleet in and of itself. It was only later, when EU writers started trying to one-up each other as to how dumb and evil the Empire could be, that we get the idea that the Empire loved putting trenches on everything and had zero point defence weapons because they were totally specialized for capital ship warfare.
What really bugs me is the small amount of fighters and how small scale star wars battles are. Especially in the new trilogy where they supposedly got a thousand star destroyers but like 12 tie fighters
@@apparentlyjeremy yeah I hate the Zysten, it's lazy design just to take the ISD, put a big red hit me here planetbuster in the hangarbay, and say it's actually way bigger than the ISD.
Lazy and stupid videogamelogic, destroye the mane weapon and it is gone. The Desthstars at least took effort to destroy. But instead they went with Independance Day.
A regular ISD fleet would have been a bigger threat than this mess.
3:00 red paint makes them faster 👍
I always thought of the Starforge as a printer of ships with limited templates that it could change to. Were the fighters and ships perfect? Likely not but so long as they were free to produce and easy to train/resupply/repair (cause of all the extra ships) you got you can probably make due with just the two.
It could also be that you could add new templates, but that this would require designing them. And since it already had some, they just used what it had and perhaps updated some components to more modern versions where outdated.
Seems like the economies of scale logic just applies: the less kinds of ships you're producing, the more efficiently you can hit a high volume of them.
In WW2 the M4 Sherman and T-34 were produced in massive numbers, not because they were perfect, but because they were "good enough" and relatively simple to produce (when compared to things like late-war German tanks).
The Soviet mindset on the matter I have heard stated as "Quantity has a quality of its own".
-
Having worked in some light factory jobs, I can see why making a lot of the same thing can be easier than making an assortment. You have less design and testing load having proved your limited designs once, and you can manufacture more of the same thing rather than shut down production to re-tool (a problem if you have one factory like the Star Forge).
The Star Forge DOES seem to have some level of intelligence and ability to design things on its own, though. During the endgame, you can use one of its fabrication systems to create an endgame piece of gear that is attuned to the force. The nature of the gear created is based on your alignment at the time, and as such despite the Forge being a dark side artifact, it is capable of creating a custom light-side attuned artifact for you.
So it is possible that Malak's sith simply didn't WANT to have it design more than one thing.
standardisation in armies is very common, in large standing armies lets take Rome, the Marion reforms had all swords the same length (from the Po valley Germans) mails coats (made from southern Gaul) etc... Each regiment had colours based on the cheapest dye from its founding garrison town. so in Star wars its the same thing, engines of a type will dictate what ship can carry them and so on.
as for the galactic 3D printer, maybe its like a 40k STC and they only had blueprints for 1 star-ship, 1 fighter and 1 portaloo, so they could only mass print them. I seem to remember the World Destroyers in Dark empire did the same, making only a standard drone fighter?
I like to think that the reason Revan/Malak's Empire chose the Interdictor was a mix of two factors:
1.) The interdictor as a ship has the similar offensive design that is later seen in the ships of the Sith Empire which falls in line with the story of Revan and Malak seeing the Empire and breaking free from Vitiate's will. This offensive design philosophy mixed with the no-escape-interdiction aspect was an intentional decision so that the Galactic Republic would face loss after loss and eventually collapse, just as Revan planned so that he could use his state of the Sith Empire to prepare the Republic for the arrival of the real Sith.
2.) If I had to guess, even with the vast size of the Sith Empire in KOTOR I don't think they have enough people to man and crew every single warship coming off of the Star Forge. Instead, maybe some of the subsystems were optimized by the droid factory aboard the Forge and these ships were semi-automated similar to the fully automated Iokath warships from Zakuul. It's much harder to automate individual systems if you're working on say ten different designs rather than the three that we know came out of the Forge (Herald-class shuttle, Interdictor-class Cruiser, Sith starfighter).
Your question about the starforge reminds of WW2 tanks.
Nazi Germany made about 20 types of tanks. Most were superior to the tanks all other nations, in a 1v1 battle. However, they were high maintenance; and parts weren't universal. Not even bolts.
The US Sherman was simple and usually weaker than most German tanks of the time; but easy to mass produce. Some would get fitted with a larger cannon. Generally, they won through strategy or attrition.
As Stalin once said, "quantity is a quality all its own." Swarm tactics can work.
My headcanon for the Sith Fleet is that the Sith simply have the same mentality that the later Empire does, which makes sense se given the Empire was run by Sith. Because the Star Forge has infinite resources they could pump put Interdictors en mass which at the time was a much larger and much more powerful than any Republic ship in service and was a very well rounded design. However they had little interest in creating quality starfighters seeing them as a small part of fleet engagement. So even though they could make a higher quality starfighter for their pilots they purposely chose not to. This is similar to how the Empire was with Star Destroyers and Tie fighters. With a near limitless budget and the majority of the Galaxy banking their fleet the Empire made nearly the exact same decision only resorting to other designs when they were forced to.
Ok, time for an EVE perspective. In EVE most Fleet Commanders have standardized ship classes with fits that are handed out to other players or sold on the local market to players for fleet actions. The uniformity gives 2 big advantages: 1) The capabilities of any particular fleet can be known from the average skills of pilots and builds of the ships. You will know from experience the speeds, weapon ranges and damage done by the fleet. There are specialty ships used within the fleet (interdictors for stopping FTL of enemies or pinpoint FTL exit, interceptors for scouting, logistics for repairs to ships. cyno beacons for Capital ships). Mainly one type makes it easy to give orders and know what fights you can or cannot take.
Contrast that with Dual Universe where every ship was custom built and designed by players in the early days. You had little to no way of knowing what the capabilities of an enemy were when you encountered one for PvP. This kind of PvP was abandoned by most organizations of players in favor of standardized blueprinted ships. Largely for the reasons above. This seems to be a natural evolution of fleet composition that is consistent from the Classical age. Only later with Task Groups being put together (Escort Task Groups, Carrier Task Groups, Missile Cruiser Task groups just to name a few of the ones built and used by the USA navy) was role-specific ships a reality. Ships are a major investment. Most nations don't have the resources for more than one or two classes of combat ship (support ships are another whole ball of wax).
Oh an Eve online comment. I miss Tranquility. Best part of the game was the offline skill training. Let me queue up a weeks worth of training for my weekend playing while balancing work and school fool time during the week.
I really liked drones and flew Gallante ships in my beginning months. They helped a lot in my early days when my gun skills were still low. Then it was all energy weapons so i never had to worry about ammo with my Amarr Harbinger. I like symmetry in my ships. Sorry Minmatar
My take on the Star Forge was it wasnt a current ship design that they had programmed the Star Forge to produce but was already programmed into it which is why it had the previously unknown interdiction ability and looked so alien. Thats certainly the case with the fighters which are described as having unique components unknown to the rest of the galaxy, though they seem to have added some lore that Darth Revan took the Leviathan, the only one of a failed class produced by Sienar Fleet Systems that worked right, to the Star Forge and had the forge clone it. Of course glaring mistake is Sienar Fleet Systems didnt exist back then, it was Republic Sienar systems at the time and they only produced yachts and fighters not warships....
Leviathan was not the only one, there is a mention of a whole fleet of Interdictor cruisers used by Revan and Malak in battle of Duro during mandalorian wars.
@@pannalesnik4027 Yeah, but the Encyclopedia said Leviathan was the only one produced by Sienar that worked right.
@@watcherzero5256 And could be that's because they literally cut and pasted stats for the Immobilizer-class, at the time?
I'm currently reading Star Wars Brotherhood and I'm really enjoying it. After watching your videos recently, I decided I'm going to read Heir to the Empire for the first time, I've heard many good things about the book and trilogy as a whole. Anyways I'm really liking the videos bro :)
Enjoy…
That's good! You've taken your first step into a larger world.
One thing worth noting is that, after a certain size, it starts to make sense to make your ships "a jack of all trades, does everything" ship. Is it an efficient use of resources? Not really. But they can be good as flag ships, and if need be, you can make a fleet out of only them.
The thing though is that you need to make sure that it CAN do everything well enough. So the ISD for instance while generally pretty good all around, is notably lacking in its anti-fighter and point defense abilities.
In the end, its easier to just create specialized ships to also come along with you.
If I were given the task to design something to supplant the ISD, I would enlarge it a bit and give it a set of docking attachements that it would use to carry around something similar to the Lancer class frigates under it. Shrink them down, replace their hyperdrives with just the cheapest, slowest, bare necessary in case they need to make a jump, but keep the heavy anti-starfighter abilities of the Lancer. ISDs are notorious for outrunning their escorts, so why not just bring the escorts with you? The ISD itself could use more point defense too of course, but making an ISD that latches smaller ships onto it so that they can all benefit from its impressive hyperdrive and be launched to start screening immediately after a jump just seems like an interesting concept.
Yes, even if the UNSC Infinity did it first.
Why go to all that trouble when you could just plaster point-defense turrets on an ISD?
You don't really need to redesign the ISD 1 to carry it's own escorts, they presumeably carry Gozantis inside them to deploy AT-ATs and Episode 4 shows they can carry corvettes in their hangar bays
@@josesanchezrodriguez1783 The primary advantage to it carrying its escort ships is that it makes the escorts a lot cheaper.
ISDs actually have very good hyperdrives, and a number of potential escorts effectively aren't, simply because they cannot keep up with the ISD.
Loving the ongoing AT-PT feud...
Also, I think the Star Forge needed a template and Revan already had the Leviathan, the prototype of the Interdictor-class.
6:06 What if there was only one production line similar to car factory. If you add other product you need to restart whole production line. In time of battle it would be hard to do. But that doesn't answer why they didn't do that in time of peace when no one was attacking. Maybe it wasn't feasible to change production line all the time?
Well, several irl navies tried to create such "lone wolf jack of all trades" design and then print it en masse to cover it's own weaknesses. One of the most (in)famous ones not so long had -catched fire thanks to drones and cruise missiles- became a submarine because of smoking sailor. And then the fleet commander was arrested a week later. Don't smoke kids, every time you do a high level official gets arrested by pure coincidence;)
My head canon for the star forge is a combination of factors: it was the most expensive/biggest/difficult to produce ships so it would make sense to have the star forge mass produce them. As to why it didn't produce other things, I would assume it's a combination of Revan/Malak and their forces not knowing the atcual limits, as I recall, in the first KOTOR game there's a cutscene where we hear that it's "operating at 200% capacity, far beyond our expectations". to me that indicates that they either didn't know before how to properly operate it (having it build individual components and assembling it thereafter vs having it "just" build the ship) or didn't have the right fuel (jedi)
This is a Different kind of Single Ship Fleets video idea: ONE Ship, i.e. the Eclipse Super Star Destroyer, the Outbound Flight, & the DS1. Reason: Despite having other ships, i.e. these three examples can detach/dispatch smaller ships from the main ship, they’re essentially still just ONE Ship Fleets…
That's what I expected
What would expect from the offspring of Deadpool (Marvel Comics) & Pinkie Pie (My Little Ponies:Friendship is Magic), @@sumukhvmrsat6347?
Bro do you hear the word "fleet" in your sleep after making this 🤣😂
Freaking love your content bro!
Honestly, shoutout to you Eck! You've been absolutely killing it with your content recently. Been so impressed by your output on both the main channel and Ecksclips and the view count has been solid, deservingly so. Keep up the fantastic work, man! Love to see it!
Having experience working on factory production lines, I think the Sith Empire's decision to have the Star Forge only produce a limited number of design would actually be both a matter of efficiency and production limitations. While to my knowledge we don't know the exact internal layout, it's reasonable to assume that it does have a limited number of production lines used to produce whatever designs you load into the computers, and unless they work like ST industrial replicators you're going to need to wait for those lines to retool themselves to produce something else whenever you want to start making a different kind of vessel. So if your goal is to produce as large and universally useful of a fleet as is possible, then selecting heavily automated generalist designs that can do pretty much everything at least okay would be your best course of action because it's the most efficient way to build a massive fleet that isn't cripplingly overspecialized.
In fact, depending on how quickly the Star Forge could pump stuff out the Sith Empire's real concern is going to be finding enough people to crew their doom fleet tbh.
15 seconds and there is already a like
Fleet battle between
Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin
Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron
Or better yet, the Coruscant Defense Fleet in episode 3.
Give them the same fleet and see whose tactical skills are better
Lmao, Ender is a literal child. All Thrawn has to do is use a force sensitive and your vs argument falls apart faster then the soviet union lmao
@@alexanderwilkins1505 Age does not correspond to competency as much as you would think.
@@alexanderwilkins1505 Ender almost single handedly destroyed and entire alien race that had a massive empire. Youth does not equal Incompetence .
I thought you meant literally a single ship, so I thought of the Ascendant Spear.
Maybe they thought the red paint would make them go even faster?
Waiting for Eck to talk about the Victory and Bulwark fleets in this video had me like that chick watching dude put all the shape blocks in the square hole. Loving the ATPT hate becoming a bit of an inside meme.
#AskEck how did C3PO not accidently reveal that Anakin and Padmé were married since he does not know how to shut up.
Easy, he did tell people but no one listened to him
@@calebbarnhouse496 Someone had to believe him
@@Lord-Emperor-Vader r2d2 ran a disinformation/terrorism campaign to counteract the results
@@calebbarnhouse496 That is a good one
Mind wiped
Regarding the ships used in Kotor, I think It was just considered unimportant to the game developers to diversify the fleets. From a lore perspective, I always assumed that Revan and Malak had to provide detailed schematics for the ships they wanted to make, so they used the best ships they had with them as templates. The Interdictor-class cruiser seemed to me the best all-around ship of the era.
For the Republic, I would just chalk it up to mass producing the most cost effective ships they had.
One thing I've always wondered about Star Wars, and the Empire in particular, why did they not add heavy weapons to the ventral side of Ships?
The Star Forge was likely capable of outputting almost any conceivable design. I think the hyper-standardization was more about speed of production and training. If your crews only need to be trained on one kind of capital ship and one kind of fighter, they can swap ships far more easily if one gets damaged. After all, once you have limitless starships, the crews are the actual limiting resource.
Videogames have the reason that they have limited budget for assets usually. That's the issue with KOTOR and SWTOR, among others. The Campaign Guide says they had more in their fleets, including Derriphans and Centurions, we just only see the Interdictor-class on screen. Same with the Republic in both KOTOR and SWTOR era, and the SWTOR era Sith. We only see like two kinds of ship, but the books say they had more kinds in their fleets.
The fleets of a single type really don't make much sense to me from an in-universe perspective. From a movie or video game perspective, only having a limited number of ship types does make production easier.
In universe, something more like modern Carrier Battle Groups makes more sense to me. Maybe something like this under a Commodore or Vice Admiral:
1 ISD
1 Interdictor
3 Dreadnaughts
6 Lancers for anti-fighter defense
Obviously subject to change based on availability of certain ship types, but something to cover the weak points of the other ship types. And for bigger issues, just send multiple battle groups with a full Admiral commanding the whole task force/fleet.
Specific missions might call for limited groups of the same type of ship (convoy escort or scouting would probably make more sense with mostly smaller/faster ships ), but that seems like it would be more like squadrons than full on fleets.
Using this kind of model, a full fleet could be something like:
Command Group (SSD with its own larger battle group)
4-5 ISD Battle Groups
1-2 Patrol/Scout Squadrons (groups of 8-10 Carracks or Strike Cruisers)
Support Squadron (Supply ships & Escorts)
Maybe some specific Interdiction groups depending on the specific mission.
You should break down Star Wars definitions of what denotes the various grades of starship formations.
Battle groups, Fleets, Armadas, Squadrons, Task Forces, & Self-sufficient Craft, among others.
Now I want to watch a video about fleets made of a single ship 😆
Nice video 👏🏻
It makes me miss legends more every time you do these great videos.
In the opposite direction, I’d like to see an in depth breakdown of Natasi Daala’s Maw Irregular Fleet
“A walker i have known beef with” lolol i love your content thx for the great video
The Galra from Voltron with an entire 2 ship classes. 😳
And squandering their Imperial Civil War as hard as the new canon.
Over the entire universe. For 10,000 years.
...yeah, that's what happens when your writing team went into literature because they failed STEM.
Starforge printing. It is likely they built all of them the same for a very practical reason.
Training.
I learn how to pilot a single fighter and I can pilot anything in the fleet. I learn how to maintain the engines on this cruiser and I don’t have to relearn everything because I am now in a battleship or frigate.
They could have had an issue with efficiency otherwise in printing them, but having a standard to train for that had no major deviations meant you could crew these vessels much faster.
Cool video. Because of the relative ease there is a lot of allure in story telling, to have only one type of ship in a fleet, especially when the story is in video game form.
My headcanon has always been that the Star Forge works like a photocopier. You put something into it and it starts endlessly manufacturing copies. Switching the ships in and out would take time, easier to mass produce one thing.
Now this is the content i subbed for.
Mmmm tasty tasty ship illustrations.
I think the fleet with the MOST diversified vessel types has to be the CIS. My favorite faction!
the Gravestone was the only ship to hold its own against the eternal fleet and win.
One of many things I love about Rebels is that we got to see multiple types of imperial vessels working together in a fleet.
“A very unique type of fleet”
_Looks at all Republic & Empire fleets from the films_
Seems legit.
But @Eckharts, what about the Xyston-class Fleet at Exegol? I can't image why you would not want to talk about that one.
This kinda makeup makes sense, operationally anyways, if it's a fleet of one TYPE of ship... An that ship happens to be battleships or cruisers an the like. It don't work so well if that "fleet" is basically some carriers, couple bigger carriers, a huge carrier an a swarm of their fighters
imho, star forge seems like assembly line, where once up and running, it cranks out. but to switch takes time. depending on how many lines you have determines how many different styles you can make. also makes stockpiling resources and pre assembling easier the fewer lines you run.
One thing I never got about the Star Forge was did it get into intricate details when making a ship like bathrooms and bedrooms? Did it also make weapons and conference rooms and every little detail that goes into a ship?
My headcanon for Kotor is that after the Sith had their scientists test the star forge, the scientists made some comments that showed a lack of faith, and nobody stopped the disturbed sith.
After that, they were out of people who knew how to code in new designs. So they went with what they had.
From a tooling standpoint, it makes sense to just pump out one class of ship. You get one line setup for all the parts and just crank them out in mass. Look at modern day ship and air craft construction. The A10 Warthog was an amazing aircraft, but they shut the tooling down years ago, therefor we cant build new ones and are just refitting and refurbishing old ones. Because the production line is closed. so to me, it makes sense the star forge would be more efficient to just crank out one design.
The Katana fleet wasn't just a fleet of dreadnoughts, but rather it was a 'slave fleet'. One of the key points about it was that it was a test by the Republic to see if they could field a large fleet of cruisers, with a minimal crew complement. The lore suggests that only one of the dreadnoughts was fully complemented with crew, that being the 'master' ship, while the others had a minimal skeleton, primarily droid crew. A crew member on the master ship was infected by a hive virus, and to prevent the virus from contaminating anyone else, the captain of the master ship jumped to a random point in hyperspace. Since the ships were slaved together, this meant the entire fleet jumped, and simply vanished.
As to when it vanished, reportedly it happened around the time that the Phantom Menace was taking place.
Crimson Command was just an excuse to use up all that Republic Red paint they had sitting around after the Clone Wars
I'd love to see some of the most diverse fleets in response. Fleets that had varying ship classes.
IIRC SWTOR has stated that there were numerous different Star Forges which each star forge being focused on one specific thing (Starships; Droids; etc)
The single ship fleets are very stellaris deathstack-esque
Can’t get over the fact that the deflection shield projectors are so vulnerable
The starships in Star Wars never cease to amaze me. Honestly, when they bring Grand Admiral Thrawn into live action in the Mando-verse, I want him to make a grand entrance (no pun intended lol,) I want him to make a grand entrance with a huge fleet flanking the Chimaera, and squads of TIE Defenders flying about and everything. That would be amazing! 😱
And if they ever plan on bringing Dreadnaughts into canon, that would be the place to do it.
Great video!
Holy fleet that's alot of fleets
As an avid table top war gamer, the scariest thing to face is someone who spams the same unit multiple times. It plays tricks on the head and makes it like there's more there than there is in a monolithic mass.
every time Eck says "fleet" or "fleets," take a drink of water. stay hydrated, folks. it's very hot and very humid in various parts of the world, right now.
the exact number of times i heard him say those words came to a total of 34.
Amazing outro
Factories and assembly lines normally specialize in one product to produce more faster. So the Star forge doing that would make sense
In my KOTOR head canon, both sides made use of each other’s cap and sub-cap ship designs, with fighters being the primary difference.
The Interdictors being the main Sith cap ships that we see makes sense, because in all instances they are either trying to capture Bastila and the crew, which an interdictor would be helpful for, or because they were trying to keep the Forge’s location a secret, so Interdictors would be great to prevent Republic/Jedi scouts from returning to their fleets to report its location.
I never assumed either about the Star Forge. My assumption was that the ships and droids that were produced by it were of Rakattan design, or were otherwise produced by the Star Forge without outside interference. I don't see why or how the Republic, which only lost Revan and Malak some odd years earlier would have produced an entirely new set of cruiser designs, built them, and completely abandoned the old schematics to the point that both fleets within the Jedi Civil War were entirely unique from one another.
I know this contradicts some things, but honestly it makes more sense for statements such as those made about the Leviathan to be wrong that it does to assume that the galactic military did a complete retrofit in like 5 years while then complaining that their adversaries seem to have more stuff than them.
6:00 i figured itd take far too long to readjust the production line from one ship class to another so they stuck to only making 1 type for each
One theory about the Starforge-produced fleet.
Because a group of ships looks similar on the outside, it doesn’t mean they necessarily are the same. For example, it is possible that the smaller Sith attack craft produced aren’t all typical fighters. Some may have internal system dedicated to scanners and communications and only a limited armament, making them scouts or some sort of recon craft - or perhaps small AWACS units? Same hull, different internal systems. The same could also be applied to the larger Sith vessels. In space, the shape of the hull doesn’t matter as much as what is inside it. So a military transport could have a very similar exterior to a cruiser.
"That red paint's probably expensive"
Booster Terrik agrees
I think the star forge only put out a couple kind of ships because it was pumping it out so fast and they had to man those ships and didn’t have cloning facilities like Thrawn. Far easier to train large numbers of people quickly if there’s only one fighter and one capital.
take a shot every time Justin says "fleet"
gonna be seein fleets by the end of the video
Always found the idea of the eternal fleet awesome.
Looking at the enormous number of Venators and the fleets dependance on it as a multi purpose vessel kinda makes the Republic Navy also a single ship fleet.
Video idea: Could you please explain why Biggs tells Porkins to eject during A New Hope? Wouldn't ejecting into outer space just kill Porkins?
I think the Starforge could only make old Rakatta designs and they had not yet figured out how to change that on large scale. But it could also track that those were simply the most efficient design for that forge. I mean you did see it churning out endless lines of fighters in the middle of the final battle.
IIRC you could print a special Robe on the starforge using it's unique fabrication, but that might have been small experiments to get full control of it.
The word fleet has lost all meeting. We require a new word for group of warships. I vote for thunder: 'A thunder of Star Destroyers.'
If i remember right the AT-PT was used in the Katana fleet because it was able to help repel boarders since the ships were skeleton crewed with droids and the captains didn't slave their ships together, they were slaved to the flagship from the outset of the fleet again because of the skeleton crew/droids (again if i'm remembering the books right its been several years). The AT-PT when encountered in the book was actually able to completely block off a hallway and when i think it was luke or han got in it and powered it up they were able to hold off a lot of stormtroopers/Thrawn troops cause no one had the ability to get through its armor and couldn't go around it because it took up the whole hallway. Probably the one and only thing an AT-PT is good for lol.
Sounds about right, forces the boarders to take a huge risk and use an anti-vehicle weapon inside a ship which is risky as all hell unless you can live in a vacuum.
I think that the Star Forge could indeed mass produce lots of things at once it's just that the "Sith" at the time didn't fully understand the technology and it was much more convenient for them to do it this way. Rakatan tech is wack so it's also possible that the forge partially on lockdown or something and they had access to exactly one shipyard.
I have always thought of the Stare Forge to be less like a printer and more like a massive factory that makes parts and pieces that are compatible and so there for they are limited in the designs that can it can make. You can only put the parts together in a certain way and because of that you cant just pump out many different ships but instead you can pump out mass numbers of a singles ship or just a hand full
I suspect the starforge built droids/ships was either one of a few situations. Either A) it only was ever able to create these designs (possible but unlikely given the ship designs of the infinite empire. B) either it was difficult to program in new working designs C) the sith lords Revan and Malak deemed the few designs they had well balanced enough to at least take over the Republic. The capital ships did seem to have everything, both turbo and regular laser cannons as well as an interdictor field that was present on EVERY ship on the fleet without seeming to leave them vulnerable. That last feature was probably useful throughout the war. After all, a common thing Revan and Malak did was capture and turn Jedi. It is much easier to capture when they can’t run away
I'd like to think that the Star Forge can produce multiple types of ships/droids/fighters, but it's more efficient if you program it to only produce one type of each. If you think about it, the Star Forge would have to rearrange itself/shift its about in production line machines in order to be able to make something different. And that takes time...
So it might be easier and quicker if you just have it produce only one type of each at one time... a bit of an issue if the enemy figures out the weakness of your equipment though...
Best walker is clearly the AT-XT from the Clone Wars video game, with its powerful main cannons, mortar launcher, and impenetrable shield.
Kotor... the way they talk about personal shields being lost technology recently rediscovered and then basicly lost again after Kotor 2, I think the Star Forge had a lot of designs built into it already. I also think Revan felt the Dark Side and only wanted minimim contamination from the Star Forge then they merged modern design parts like a modern hyper-drive into the Star Forge computers. When Malak saw that the Star Forge could print a lot of ships/droids/shields/weapons and that he was already winning, he didn't feel the need or lacked the genius ability to add more designs. If Malak didn't exist and Revan pressured by the Republic and Bastila, I think we would have seen new designs by the end of that war.
Not mentioning the Xyston Spam that was over Exegol?
The type of ships in a fleet depend heavily of course on the yards and docks. It makes no sense to build the biggest super-super ship if there is no dock that can service it. Even more important is the number and size of yards. If you have more smaller yards you just can´t build some destroyers but those in larger numbers (because they are faster to build). If you have cruisers there are normally fewer docks where those can be build and it takes longer. So now you just have to go down the list of yards and docks to determine number of ships and types in a fleet
Can a VSD dock with the underside of a Super star destroyer? Also how did Slave 1 dock with the imperial shuttle?
Carrier, destroyer,and many many Corvettes is how my fleet would look
Mmm, in motor they also had Centurions and Derriphans. The Centurions were quite rare, the Dereiphans on the other hand were very common. No shielding, instead relying on sheer armor, a very very minimalistic crew compared to the Interdictor, and essentially a single weapon system comprised of heavy concusion missile launchers.
can you do a video of what if instead of the deathstar the empire rebuitthe starforge or a modern version of it how would you design it?
I actually like these fleets within their context. The Crimson Command used some unusual red-tinted armour plating and essentially resulted in a mass produced Victory III, the whole project feels a lot like the Death Star and the other imperial megaprojects with too many resources spent on what is essentially a prototype.
The Katana Fleet was a PR project to showcasing a fully slave-rigged fleet and to assure the citizens of the Republic that they could be protected despite the limits imposed by the Ruusan Reformation on warships during the golden millennium when the ships were designed and built.
And the fleet of Leviathans does fit Darth Malak's doctrine. Overwhelming force, no complex stratagems, no fancy tactics, just large, powerful ships with overwhelming firepower, their fighter complements and their soldier garrison. If one is not enough, use two or four, or eight.
As for the Eternal Fleet, I have yet to play that far into the story so no comments.
According to the old rpg by WEG an Attack Line could be from 1-12 vessels, and an Imperial-class was considered an Attack Line by itself.
Always enjoy the capital ships... even some of the ones that were "kinda-special", in that the purpose of them was not as well thought out. Bigger is not always better, and capital ships are no different. Big for the sake of being bigger is one thing... but when there is a distinct reason (or set of reasons) for the increased size and mass, okay. But, it is nice to see discussions of some of the lesser known ships as well as the ones we all know well. :)
My take on the Starforge is that since they have no economic and manpower constraints they just spammed the best ships they have the schematics available. If you have the capability to just spam nebulas star destroyers why botter with other classes of ships
What about Anakin and Obi-wan's Circle fleet? Wasn't it just Venators by Revenge of the Sith? The only other fleet I can think of is the Trade Federation Lucrehulks.
its not just about winning battles. ships supporting a Revenge-class heavy carrier such as the Relentless can project power and win the peace.
I know this legends focused but their is also the Trade Federation fleet at naboo and Final Order Fleet.
Does halo do the same with the unsc with its frigates just been sub classes during the war against the covenant basically