dear chaeyoung defenders: behave!
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- Опубліковано 22 бер 2023
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FAQ's
Name: Cheryl
Age: adult
Pronouns: she/her
Race: Black (African)
Ult biases: Shownu (Monsta X), Onda (Everglow), Huijun (MCND), Yujin (IVE), Haram (Billlie), Heeseung (Enhypen), Cai Yubing, Ricky
Stan List:
LOML: Kim Woojin
Ult of Ults (in order): Monsta x + wonho, Red Velvet, MCND, Everglow, Ateez
Ults (in order):Le Sserafim, IVE, FITFTY FIFTY, Billlie, SHINee+Taemin, BTS, SKZ, PIXY
Semi Ults (in order): Dreamcatcher, FIFTY FIFTY, AOA, Kard, GWSN, Woo!Ah!, Mamamoo, NCT127, CLC, WJSN, I_DLE SuperM, Seventeen, Blackpink, Rocket Punch, StayC, Aespa, Itzy, Cherry Bullet - Розваги
People saying that Black people can’t be Jewish are the same people that question black and brown Latinas.
It’s quite annoying
Really😒😒😒😒😒
People are embarrassing, uneducated degenerates, fuck them!!!😡😡😡
They choose to be ignorant in this context and similar things so, to hell with them!!!
its like saying half the asian community cant be asian because they dont have the same skintone
@@loafer_main Literally!!!
Black and poc were killed in the Holocaust too, not even for being jewish but because of their race, rommi people especially were persecuted to almost the same number as jewish people
and the way people think korea, japan, and china are the only asian countries like it’s so silly
I can't imagine if she was in Europe while wearing this shirt. She would've gotten beat up on the street and arrested 😬 it shows just how serious this is, people just downplay it because they aren't affected by it.
What European country do you mean? I've seen people in Europe have Nazi tattoos and clothes and people just ignore it.
Absolutely
Literally in Germany she would’ve gotten arrested for wearing that as it should be
She did wear it all in us and no one said anything about it, kinda weird tbh
@Simon for real though it’s quite concerning seeing the response.
So many people are literally excusing her behavior and don’t want to hold her accountable.
This woman offended multiple groups of people in less than one week.
As someone who is German seeing her wear that on my fyp was so disheartening.
Here's my take. Chaeyoung probably, genuinely, didn't know the full context behind those shirts she was wearing. But at this point, there's no excuse for why she didn't know about the tilted swastika. There is no excuse for there not being at least one person at JYPE who knows about one of the most prominet, most recent, and most vile hate symbols in human history. It just tells of an utter lack of effort from the company to not hurt the people they want money from. Do I believe she inteded harm? No. But she caused it anyway.
This is the comment I agree with the most. Chaeyoung has always supported the exact opposete politics than that, openly wearing lgbt merch etc, so for her to know and show support for something like this doesn't make sense at all. I'm confident she simply didn't know, but even so, its a very serious situation that shouldn't be taken lightly. I think I can forgive her, however it will take some time.
Does intent matter? Yes. Does the consequences of one's action matter more? Hell yeah.
A drunk driver probably doesn't intend to kill anyone, but when they do, there are consequences to their actions.
I am also very confused as to HOW not a single person confronted her about it as she was wearing it at billboard I think? And when they were at the Apple thing PLUS when she literally met Kim Petra who I read was German, how didn’t ANYONE notice and be like ‘yo r u fr wearing this knowing what it is or just for the aesthetic?’
My take is that she knew what it meant, but thought it wouldn't affect people nowadays. It's the conclusion I arrived at as it's unlikely that a) she meant to hurt people who were affected by it and b) that she didn't know anything about it
@@vtauoyctynwbrooylm6008 I forgot what someone said so they said it’s similar to something & she didn’t notice it was tilted I forgot what the person said but they said she got confused or something like that😃
People saying there was no real damage done is just wrong… There are still anti-semites everywhere waiting for someone to validate them. Chaeyoung is a big idol. Don’t downplay what she did.
I've said this a billion times, kpop artists NEED to have social awareness classes pre-debut (on race, colorism, religion, sexuality and slurs) so they don't make complete fools of themselves like this. At the end of the day, no reason under the sun will excuse Chaeyoung's behavior. Ignorance isn't really bliss when she's literally supporting the genocide of Jewish people. Let's be fr rn. I don't remember walking into a circus, 'cause this is clownery.
They know about everything they chose too ignore it
@@Staypressed_ !!
It's even more annoying when they have the fastest internet in the world and consume things from the west like they're paid for it yet can't educate themselves on sensitive issues and we're supposed to ignore that 😬😬😬😬
@@Staypressed_ we dont know what they know lol
Who is going to educate them though? The same companies that are also ignorant? I think there is an unwillingness to learn and the industry wanting to turn a blind eye to social issues unless they are pushed by consumers aka us
Her Instagram comments make me so mad, people continuously defending her and telling others it's just a shirt is so annoying.
The way I had to hold myself back from popping off on those people 😭
@@addyvalencia literally it makes me so mad the way they put kpop before basic human decency
what did you think the comments would look like
@@gatorboy21king anything but "it's okay Chae we love you 🥺💞"
@@iris_cottage also the fact that half the people “forgiving” her aren’t even jewish is just...yikes. me myself im not even jewish but its so wrong on so many levels.
As a black person living in the states I can tell you that people are definitely flirting with the idea of nazism. If I’m not mistaken hate groups such a kkk also look towards nazism and people still defend the kkk to this day so yes there are ppl in the states that definitely like or interested in nazism. I’m not saying all but if you get down into the republican states, you’ll find a shit ton of them. Unfortunately, I live in a republican state so I know.
Especially with the entire Kanye West thing going on a lot of people (not only in the US) are driven towards nazism again. It is honestly so scary to watch!!
as a person from Europe this whole situation is insane.
Same, it’s just mind blowing and feels surreal
@Grey Gangdude wtf? i have no words 💀
@Grey Gang You just made WAY WAY WAYYYYYYYY too many assumptions about someone based off of one sentence my friend, and for a response to a comment that could read as being on either side YOU are the one who seems very mad and offended. Please chill out and think more before you make a comment like this.
@@greygang4769Touch some f*n grass
@Ofra Cohen yeah I realized that afterwards😭
No way people don't understand black people can be Jewish😳
People don’t think black people can be anything outside of stereotypes
The brainwashing is strong. The stereotypes are also strong. So many lies were propagated against the "black" community. The colonizers don't want the world to know about the "black jews" for reasons best known to them. Look how they treat the Ethiopian Jews in Israel.
@@Okay__And No, seriously. People truly can't believe that a Black person could be anything else than purported stereotypes..
It's insane, actually. To the masses, we are just stereotypes.
She also said that she is Christian. So something is not adding up
Here's my thing, even if she really didn't know what that symbol meant and somehow in over 23 years she NEVER saw a ww2 movie, museum or even heard conversations about ww2 and that symbol... that still shows her ignorance and people are allowed to be upset, you can't just hurt someone and when someone is upset by that, just say that you didn't know, you still hurt that person so to make excuses to chae and koreans in general shows how kpop fans fetishize korea and asians in general, treating them like people that are too soft for criticism and can't handle being told that something is wrong. This doesn't mean that you should send hate to chae or the twice members, but you can say that her wearing that was messed up, and I think people are allowed to want a REAL apology, not just a two sentence note.
Agreed, but what would you consider a real apology? Even if it is just a 2sentence note it could be genuine, and all this pressure on her to give a "real" apology could make her release a longer apology but less genuine and more for show.
@@jypapisnumber1stan I can't say exactly what I want tbh, but the statement was her just saying that she didn't know which was an excuse, I wish she just said something more that she was sorry she bought it and wore it, and maybe address those that are affected by the symbol. They're promoting in the usa now and jype is pushing twice a lot more internationally so they can't do a typical kpop apology that is just a sorry, and move on. I guess overall she should be more direct and explain why its bad, and be specific and say sorry to the groups of people she hurts wearing that shirt such as jewish people.
yeah but when ppl make long apologies yall dont accept them
@@abcd-mo5mo not sure who ya'll are, and there are very few times that kpop idols have given apologies for issues like this, they may have for bullying, but never for cultural issues unless it has to do with korean topics.
That first part is not really ur place to speak, people can be whatever age, lived however long they have and still not know a bunch of stuff simply bcuz they aren’t exposed to it. This is in no way defense of chaeyoung (I’m not a fan of twice don’t kill me), but I know plenty of ppl (old and young) who have never watched ww2 movies, ppl who have never even been to museums and if they have they are literally art museums of all things. Obviously they a know a vile symbol when they see one (since everyone is pretty much taught the holocaust to some degree over here) but my point being u can’t expect everyone to have the same exposure to things, nor should u try and act like all ppl have the same interests to the point where u think it’s “right” to say something like “I can’t believe they’ve never seen a movie about war or etc.” when SOME people just don’t like those types of movies, the same way ppl who don’t like superhero movies don’t watch them, they’re not gonna force themselves to watch something they don’t like.
If the Japanese members of Twice know better than wearing the rising sun symbol (for Japanese imperialism) on the streets of SK or any other Asian country, then Chaeyoung should know better than wearing the Nazi symbol on the streets of America. How a 23-year-old adult like her can go to a foreign country without knowing its most basic cultural sensitivity and dressing code, is just beyond me. It’s honestly for her own safety as well.
Like not even that america is relatively soft in that. Imagine if she had worn it in europe. Here in Germany and multiple other countries you get arrested for showing that symbol.
americans say this like they dont go around as tourists being the rudest plague lmao
Then we need to cancel the entire west for their ignorance of the violence they've inflicted in countries in the East. Hypocritical and dumb.
Is this comment meant to be ironic? Because Sana essentially did exactly that when she praised the emperor on Instagram and wished luck to the next imperial era.
And also Germany helped Japan against Korea not many people are mentioning this point. That’s why America bombed Hiroshima japan because of their support of Germany 💁♀️
It’s wild how many kpop fans magically become: historians, foreign teachers and curriculum specialists, (that know about different curriculum worldwide so know exactly what she did or didn’t learn in school), business ceos and analysts, theologians, and the list goes on and on.
An Idol made a mistake, a pretty big one, and it hurt and was offensive to a demographic of people. It is exactly what it is. Further education in JYP does need to happen if they intend to continue globally in my opinion. Also, the babying of grown adults that have access to the internet is very strange to me.
Also it’s unbelievable what you put up with Cheryl! I’m so sorry people are ignorant.
What these fake specialist don't get, is that most of the people being mad at Chae, are actually ONCES themselves, perhaps Chae was even their bias. For the love of Jesus, i woke up to Chae wearing a swastika, i couldn't believe my eyes.
@@BlodhelmTzuyu is my bias so thank you for bringing that up. The fact she was shamed for her ordeal and made to do an apology video when all Chae has to do is copy paste a paragraph apology is WILD
@@Blodhelm Chae definetely lost our respect and trust. I hope she and Twice will learn from it, in order to not disappoint future onces (if Chae won't end up paying the price for this edgy moment)
@Grey Gang the fact that people are struggling doesnt mean that you cant call out an idol for idiotic behaviour. This is genuinely a very important topic, so i think we should discuss it and bring awareness to it. Do you think it would be better if we all just ignored this?
@@greygang4769the fact that your response is the same length if not longer than my own reply is telling enough. Have a great day fellow “internet warrior.” 😉
I'm so glad you are talking about this. My moms family is polish and were shipped from their homeland to germany to work in factories for the nazis. My great uncle died there and my grandma died at 35 because she had health complications from being raised in a work camp. Im still dealing with the impact WWII had on my family and I dont understand how anyone can wear that symbol and not understand the severity of its history. I'm extremely dissapointed in Chaeyoung and the people defending her.
Same!!! I am so terribly sorry for what happened to your mom's family, I can't imagine how devastating that must have been. This reminds me of something.
I went to the Auschwitz in Poland back whem I was in TY/4th Year of secondary school, it was so sad hearing about all the atrocities that happened with the Holocaust so I sympathise with you.
Exactly! My dad’s great grandfather fled Poland at 16 in the early 1900s and came to the U.S. through Ellis Island. I don’t know what happened to the rest of his family that stayed behind after that.
@Grey Gang bffr
@Grey Gang you're just copy-pasting your comment stfu
I'm so sorry to hear that, seeing people defending her must be horrible, I'm not directly affected because of this situation so I don't want to assume how you feel but I really am sorry to hear that.
As a Indian who literally grew up around Swastika but still knows what the nazi Swastika is. Ok let's take your *reason* she doesn't know what Swastika. But why in world would she wear a problematic singers merch which is literally collected. No one in twice knows swastika?? Like no one stopped her. I am not the biggest fan of twice (I only known jihyo and momo) but aren't twice the biggest gg out their like no one not a single person questioned her outfit?
If a Jewish person is mad they have every right to be mad. If you don't understand their feelings don't just ignore others feeling.
You see, this is what I was thinking. Chaer has so many people around her and not one of those people thought to stop her from wearing that shirt?? This is just ridiculous
@@mushroomcows1539 exactly. Okay she was not *educated* on this topic what about others? Not even her managers?
@@inlovewithwheein What I am still questioning is why would she buy that shirt in the first place. Sid Vicious is not what you’d exactly call a role model and let’s not talk about that symbol. So I truly don’t get why she bought it. But as Cheryl said, we’re not in her head.
@@whostheoo_ he’s a widely recognised and hugely influential figure in punk rock. If she’s into that music and subculture then I can see why she’d wear it
@@LaurenPebble But he did some problematic things while he was still alive. But as you said she may did not know about it.
I think that those who defend it are people who still haven't understood the seriousness of the Second World War. As a German, I find this part of our history regrettable and I am ashamed of it. I don't think we should take events lightly. People died and there were consequences all over the world. And Korea has taken a lot, I don't think she doesn't know what happened. All we can hope for is that she is a carefree person and that she is not a N@zi herself.
I think she wore it because of sid viscous but still a shirt with the swastika is very harmful
True. I’m German too:)
@@Blodhelm oh damn I didn't know that. I just thought he was a very prominent punk artist. thx for the info
@Grey Gang This is what you sound like: "How dare someone take a sick day from work for strep throat when we don't have a cure for cancer."
Yes, there are worse problems in the world. That doesn't mean someone wearing the symbol of a party that committed a literal genocide doesn't warrant discussion. And I say this as someone who's giving Chaeyoung the benefit of the doubt.
As far as ik from clips, chaeng has worn symbols of the LGBT community
U prolly know better how the Nazis treated them
She also prolly wore the safety pin symbol
People in the comments were REALLY showing their lack of education and research before stating their uninformed opinions. 🙄
Honest to actual God, it's INFURIATING!!!
I myself have to apologies for my lack of education in the meaning of the symbol as I didn't even know what it meant until this came out, I defended her and I have no excuse for doing so because I genuinely didn't know the depths behind the situation I though it has something to do with the stylist making a mistake but Knowing that she bought it and wore it multiple times yeah there is no excuse. I'll also proceed to educate myself on the symbol itself because I truly didn't know anything about it.
@@pnxentertainment7084 Well 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
At least you care enough to take accountability for your actions.
@Simon so what does she have to do to satisfy you? Kill herself?
yes PLS chaeyoung defenders istg 😭 don’t be this biased that you’re blind. i bias/biased chae and twice r my ult of ults and istg people need to open their eyes to their stupidity
Agreed frosty !!
@@Blodhelm since when did frosty say that she doesn’t want twice to be successful? All we are asking is to hold her accountable so she can learn from this mistake instead of just being excused bc she said sorry and moved on with her life like nothing happened…
@@FlowerArtzy24 the person was agreeing with me i think artz fyi
@@FrostyPlayzYT oh 😭😭😭 my apologies mom defensive mode
Jewish people were not the only people affected by Nazism, Hitler's actions affected many people around the world. So everyone has the right to be angry at chaeyoung whether they are jewish or not
They really fucked up history class if they think only Jewish people will be affected
She's my ultimate bias, but damn. My ancestors have been deeply affected by WW2 and I won't forget their braveness in fighting nazism (I'm russian). People all around the globe should know about this. I'm not mad at Chaeyoung, I don't know that much of history myself. I'm just sad about this situation and how people don't know about such a huge tradegy in worldwide history.
You don't have to know much about history to know about literally the biggest event in history that affected the entire world...
@@Free_Palestine_75 exactly my point
Well to her, imperial japan was the bigger focus
Russia obv will learn about the nazi brutalization (all of Europe will)
The Africans learn of colonialism and slave trade
We indians of British colonialism
Everyone has a different focus on history
I’m a huge ONCE, Twice was my favorite girl group.
Even so, I cannot forgive Chaeyoung. My great grandfather fought against the people who Chaeyoung’s wearing. WWII traumatized him. He watched his friends get brutally slaughtered-yet there are still people who make fun or take WWII lightly. I’m not too sure if I’ll continue supporting Twice in the future, but I guess we’ll see what the future holds.
Please rest easy Grumpy Pappy, I love you ❤
P.S: I still stan twice
I’m so sorry to hear that, just know that we appreciate you thank you so much for speaking up !!
Btw why it was on sell if it can’t be wear?? i wanna knw , well I didn’t knew bout this things too actually m 24 rn still don’t knw , if i were chae i wld wear that too caz m unknw about it
Where did Chaeyoung praise Nazis? Seriously where did you get that? I get your upset and much peace and respect to your grandfather may he rest in peace,but don't make things up, yes she messed up, but for you to think she meant to wear it to offend and agree with Nazis , you are honestly mislead.
Where did she praise them tho?
what happened? I haven't watched the video yet but so many people are talking about chaeyoung
honestly, at first i was thinking that drama was because of the stage outfit but when i did see the insta post outfit, i cant defend her anymore, thats her choice
“She apologized, move on” then why can’t chae defenders can’t move on and actually holding this person accountable, “you are digging up dirt” well when you noticed The restaurant is Jewish owned that isn’t dirt that’s just pointing out that chae just did that…
Move on, lol. Kpop is just music. Making 20 minutes of videos about her won't change anything. Is she delivering raps and vocals? Yes. That's all I need to know.
@@raidon8470 Are you Jewish? If you're not shut the fuck up, people have a right to be mad. You have no right to tell people to just move on when this situation doesn't effect you. Kpop is just music, but idols deserve backlash if they do offensive things.
@@raidon8470 I'm convinced you were dropped as a newborn cause ain't no way you defending her
I think people forget that WW2 happened like 75 years ago like it's very recent. it still affects millions of people and families. you simply can't dismiss that.
a little louder for the people in the back!!!
I feel like everytime ppl defend idols for behaviors like this they just treat them like kids incapable of knowing what's wrong and right, and it's kind of annoying
Kind of annoying? It's BEYOND infuriating!!! This is one of the many reasons why Kpop and Kpop stans will NEVER have any respect from people outside Kpop.
You're from Zimbabwe, I'm from South Africa. All love my Southern African sister🫰🏿🫰🏿🥰
She definitely messed up big time and deserves to be called out for it, all of the backlash is warranted, but the amount of people who I saw saying she should have gotten jumped for this? Do better. Wishing physical harm on a k-pop idol is never a good look. 1) You should never wish violence upon someone. As someone with too much experience with it, violence is never the answer. 2) You're only making her stans defend her even more and say she did nothing wrong (which she did, she did do something wrong). That will draw away attention from the root problem at hand (which I think isn't Chaeyoung, but the was cultural insensitivity and education for k-pop idols, something that, from the evidence at hand, is severely lacking). So, as I said, do better.
Criticize her actions and hold her accountable, but do so with dignity and wisdom instead of spewing pure hatred or pure defense. I hope she actually learns from this situation and takes a break to consider her actions and also properly take responsibility for them.
if anyone is actually advocating for violence upon her, that is wrong, period. but from what i've seen it's less that she should get jumped, and more how it's a fact that she would get fined/arrested for wearing it in europe
Not only Jewish people were killed in concentration camps!!!! Ethnic Poles, Roms, and thousands of Soviet prisoners (including Ukrainians and Belarussians). I don't see the same energy when it comes to them.
Yes, absolutely.
Why do people act as if ppl from the east come from a different planet? There’s no excuse for the ignorance. “Oh but she doesn’t speak English and she’s not from Europe so she doesn’t know🥺” baby, Koreans have literally came out and said on twitter that they get taught about the world war 2 in school. Everyone and their mother is aware of what Nazism is. Chaeyoung is a full grown adult, she’s attended school, so she knows right from wrong. Im fed up of idols being treated like babies. There’s no justifying any of this. She’s so lucky because as someone else has stated in this comment section, if she would of wore that in Europe, she would’ve been attacked badly and arrested. Smh.
kpop fans are still struggling with race, nationality and ethnicity etc, it's infuriating.
edit 1; to expound on your point about twice being protected by fans, I saw a comment on reddit from a Once saying TWICE are so protected/ coddled by their staff too. I have been thinking about that and what part it could play in what TWICE committing some of these things.
edit 2; I agree with your point about the education as a whole but I would say both sides are getting similar amount of slack from the other. Onces definitely have a bias though when it comes to that.
Amazing video as always
They are DELIBERATELY stupid!!
its the fact they're aiming for the western market rn but did no sensitivity training at all. its like a western group promoting in Korea wearing clothes with the rising sun symbol. all parties involved need to do better.
@GenZ Conservative ♀️ stop believing that she isn't online wth ? She has a phone, internet, she did go to school for a while tho she stopped early she isn't illiterate is she ?
We learned about WWII in middle school and high school
Middle school 12 tol 15 and high school 16 18
@GenZ Conservative ♀️ Were you born yesterday? That would explain your childish take. In what world would you think wearing a major hate symbol would not evoke backlash? Learning the cultural norms of countries you're interested in visiting and carrying out business activities is the bare minimum of respect. Grow up.
So as a german, i obviously know what the symbol means and what the origin of that symbol is. And to be fair, when i saw Chaeyoung wearing that symbol, i just felt incredibly uncomfortable. But instead of hating on her or doing something malicious, i first sat back, and wanted to see, if or how she'll respond to her wrongdoing. And to be completely honest: her two sentence apology didnt make me believe that she actually knows what the mistake there was. I mean in comparison: Tzuyu had to make a whole apology video for raising a Taiwanese flag, and Chaeyoung gave a two sentence apology for a bigger matter. (Since the Nazi symbol also represents the death of millions of innocent people and genocide, discrimination, racism and so much more horrible things, and the taiwanese flag incident only got so big, because some chinese people claimed to know tzuyus political beliefs for simply raising a flag from the area she's from, even tho she didnt say anything political)
And once again, i never wrote a hate comment towards chaeyoung. However since that chaeyoung incident i feel so incredibly uncomfortable listening to twice, that i just removed their songs from my playlist.
And i wasnt even a casual listener, twice has been my favourite group since 2017 and i genuinely loved their music. However wearing a nazi symbol goes so much against my morals and beliefs that i just cant support that, Especially as a german
Are you a native German or just German by nationality?
@@MimosaRiri both
@@linonimon2742 I see. While Chaeyoung's action was offensive, and people are free to boycott her. Why should foreigners must know everything about Nazis' atrocities, and pay the price of their barbaric acts?
@@MimosaRiri im Not saying you need to know everything about the German history. However Nazis, during second worldwar, played a central role and was allies with Japan, and back then Japanese soldiers r*ped Korean women and children, which is why they aren't on the best terms to this day. This is why South Korea and Germany are connected historically in a way. Like without the second worldwar, south Korea wouldn't be the way it is today, since things like the split of Korea in South and North was a follow up of second worldwar and cold war
@@MimosaRiri and simply... We're talking about a WORLDwar not a war that just happened in Germany. Which implies that it is important for the world history
Even with the whole "career suicide" and "intention" point, Chaeyoung would still need to take responsbility towards the people she hurt! Ignorance doesn't undo the damage she's done. For example, if I say "Dude, this food is so gross" and my friend responded "I cooked the food" I would STILL feel bad and need to apologize even if I didn't know. I also have to respect their feelings if they decide to forgive me or not bc I offended them.
Or you can live your life
@@raidon8470 Thanks but I have a good conscious
@@bunnymoonbloom Watching 20 minutes of videos about a Kpop girl and writing paragraphs don't give me the impression that you do
@@raidon8470 And you somehow missed the most important topic in your little summary. This isn't just about a kpop girl, but it also involves antisemitism. Go mind your own business and don't worry about what I do with my time.
@@raidon8470 Writing insensitive comments doesn't tell me you're living your life either. If you wanna move on then move on and get off the Internet!
i just did my research abt how this symbol is so serious. And my god, i realized how embarrassing my facebook friends were. They’re literally babying chaeyoung and saying “she apologized, get over it” and i was like, girl what??? the fact that you’re mad at people expressing their dissapointments at chae is beyond dumb, like my bias in twice is chaeyoung but this is just wrong and she needs to be educated. and the fact that the people invalidating the one’s who are upset are the one’s who doesn’t have a knowledge abt this issue. they’re literally attacking ppl for being upset😭😭 which is wrong
May I ask you where are you from?
Stop babying jews
@@skillbopster i’m not babying them?
@@katiar2032 I’m from Philippines, which is a country greatly affected by WWII
@@sooyaasaelim_ I was asking you that because as an European it's a little strange to read that someone had to do a research on what the swastica symbolizes. And I'm not trying to be condescending, it's just that in Europe nazism and its symbols are pretty imprinted in the collective memory, it's one of those things that "you always knew", you know what I'm saying? But at the same time I really don't know much about what happened in East Asia during WWII, since in history classes we always focused on the West part of the story. I do know something about the japanese imperialism, but not from school. So I guess for you it's the same thing "reversed": you are taught about what happened in your country/nearby countries, but not much about what happened in Europe. Is that right? And is there a symbol that in the Philippines carries the same weight as the swastica in Europe? I know about the rising sun flag, but I also know that it is still used sometimes, whereas the swastica is like a taboo here
I’m a black person that lives in Western Europe. I’m also a once who is very deep on once twitter. First of all, my main problem with the situation is that SO much misinformation was spread. From people saying she used chatgtp for her apology to people claiming its a rare and expensive piece of merchandise when identical shirts can be bought on etsy for 20$. Its annoying. Many people have inflated the situation without any real care for offended parties for reasons i am not sure of. I dont think chaeyoung should be shielded from this because even if you think she didnt know she is still a GLOBAL icon and should be educated on GLOBAL topics for that reason but its just so horrible seeing people inflate the situation for a better ‘gotcha’ monent.
@@Free_Palestine_75 the one she was wearing looked nothing like the original though, it only resembled the ones on etsy and random japanese punk rock websites, it is impossible she payed 500 dollars for what she worse in that photo, and its very likely she found it while browsing for clothes to buy at some aggregate page probably.
People are really saying that you can't be Black and Jewish oh wow... It's crazy how people do not know what being Jewish means...
Motherfucking thank you for this, I am revolted by how willfully ignorant people are.
Jews were originally middle eastern.
Also “most of Korea is apolitical” PLEASE!! Living in Korea during this last election cycle i can’t even begin to tell you how untrue this is. My husband (Korean) tells me all the time about the Korean versions of Reddit and they are *extremely* political looooool
I personally am a Chaeyoung stan and I agree with every single word you say, like what! She may or may not have done it by mistake but she needs to be accountable for it and fans should stop gaslighting people into thinking that they are literally insane for feeling bad.
I used to defend Chaeyoung at the beginning because I didn't believe that she would do something like this or if she meant to wear it but now I see that she's a grown adult I'm just a child so my voice isn't going to be loud it's not going to be heard but that's ok. I now understand that backlash even though I wouldn’t suggest online hate towards her, people were offended by the shirt especially Jewish K-pop stans I hope everyone can heal from this
I am Russian and I agree with you 100%. You do not just forget about millions of lost and ruined lifes and start treating the main symbol of it like it's something normal. The Soviet Union has lost 27 million people and the grief is deeply engraved in our culture. There is a saying related to World War II in Russian that goes 'every family has its own heroes' because everyone fought and many of them never came back home. My dad has told me that my great grand mother saw her father when he was about to depart for war. He told her he'd come back very soon. He was killed shortly after and she never saw him again.
And this is only one of the billions of heartbreaking stories caused by war in all the countries involved. So I may sound too harsh but I don't understand how somebody can defend her after that. If she knew - and I'm pretty sure she knew what she was doing because Korea suffered so much from this war and there's no way they don't learn that at school - she does not deserve the support she gets. This shit is bigger and way more serious than kpop and fun. If she didn't know, it's still her fault - the girl needs to go read some books because not knowing basic things while being a really rich adult that has all the access to education is a shame
Russian? You're a nazi too. Killing poor Ukrainians carrying that Z sign.
I would be quiet if I were you
that's rich, coming from a russian, delete your comment and don't embarrass yourself, the soldiers from your country are committing genocide right now, that's insane to read
in ww2 italy did terrible things and suffered terrible things, as allies of the nazis we persecuted the jews, in africa we committed several war crimes, when we switched side the Nazis who arrived to occupy the north raped and summarily executed women and children for no reason just as retaliation, when the king decided to call the colonial armies (armies of Africans from the Italian colonies) to rescue the population they advanced from the south towards north raping the same women they had been called to defend, quite hironic 😅 after the war ended, Russia supported the creation of Yugoslavia by annexing to them territories (at the time occupied by russians) that were ours before the war, this resulted in the greatest persecution that took place against the Italian population recorded in recent history, with 350,000 Italians who managed to escape in time from what was now Yugoslavia back to Italy, loosing all their belongongs, and more than 15,000 who instead were captured tied to each other in groups of 20-30 brought above the foibe (very deep vertical caves typical of the area) and thrown downedge, those who did not die from the fall remained tied to the corpses for days before dying in turn for the wounds or from hunger, all this after the war was officially ended and with the tacit consent of the allies pressured by Russia, with only americans and french trying to stop the thing, I suppose you guys dont talk about This there right? nevertheless we do not hold a grudge against anyone, neither the nazis who killed random civilians in revenge, nor the Croats or Serbs who purged civilians from their home after the war was over (this is the only thing where italians do old a grudge, we still want those territories back) nor the Russians who supported them in doing so, the war is shit for everyone, symbols are just symbols, it's the ideas behind the symbols that must be condemned, i doubt the girl is a nazi... so why do care about a shirt with a twisted cross?
Just to further clarify: Yes, some people identify as being Jewish when it comes to their racial identity. I don’t know why they do that. Some of my relatives do and the conversations basically goes:
“But… We’re White?”
“No, we’re Jewish.”
Like… How does that make sense?
But yeah, in spite of that, you can be White and Jewish, you can be non-White and Jewish. It’s the 21st century. People of different backgrounds, cultures, religions, etc. are getting married and mixing all of these traits together. Also, Israel is in the top right hand corner of Africa. People can emigrate from their homelands. Hence how religions spread.
So yeah, someone being Jewish and Black shouldn’t come as revolutionary. Hopefully that was of some help.
@@Blodhelm yeah but the science that the N*zis’ ideas of race were based on have been completely debunked time and time again
The reason for people identifying as Jewish is due to what happened in WW2 where being Jewish was viewed as a separate race of people from other white/German people. Thus, being Jewish is now viewed as both a religious thing as well as it's own ethnicity.
@@LaurenPebble I swear, there is so much of the N*zi mentality that has bled into modern day thinking.
Like, if you look at the history of the LGBTQ+ community, the N*zi party became the cause of things like pink being seen as a “girly” color and why gay men tend to have very strict and unhealthy beauty standards.
They really screwed over the world even if they lost the war.
@@user-me9in1yu6s @blodhelm Thank you for the explanations! 😊
It's stemming from jewish belief where basically judaism is inherited matrilineally. So If your mother is jewish you are jewish.
Honestly the situation is so tiring, but now it's being a bit less talked in Twitter.
There's many sides that I had to listened to, like from the Westerns fans side, the Jewish and the Asian fans perspective. Because the situations brings so many perspectives from different parts of fans, especially regarding how WW2 is taught in different countries.
But since I'm Asian, I slightly biased towards Asian fans perspective because I experienced the same thing: learned about WW2 but not the symbol. Believe it or not, my history textbook didn't even touch on the Holocaust. Only through UA-cam where I actually knows about the holocaust and the symbol. And mind you, some wasn't interested in going into details of WW2 due to education given and even if they have the access to internet, they simply just don't do the research because it wasn't the peak of their interest.
Now ofc I'm not in anyway defending Chaeyoung because as a Once myself, her actions were pretty dumb. But what I can't tolerate is people sending death threats and protesting of her being kicked out of the group. Like how you going to expect people to learn all while sending death threats to people making mistakes?
Sorry if there's bad grammar.
It's like people get satisfaction when they have a chance to ruin someone. My grandgrandpa was killed in WW2 fighting German soldiers, but I do not want to jump on the hate train just because someone is from the opposite part of the globe and doesn't know what swastika is.
She apologized, people, what do you want from her? Does she need to commit suicide so you can relax? So stupid, I just can't.
@@Blodhelm well with one problem, people will accuse her of 'faking' her insincerity and people will say it will be just 'normal' type of apology issued by problematic UA-camrs. Making video or not, people won't be satisfied.
Even if those were sincere explaination and Chae already show her remorse, people will say it'll be just normal type of apology video issued by problematic UA-camrs
@@Moonlight_Shad0w well depends on her. Anything she do, there's still be lots of people who will dissatisfied
@Grey Gang because ignoring it is ignoring the literal holocaust and how it stills affects people today
We had it in my history book in Korea, all my family and friends learned and know about the symbol and it's in our general media. Not all Asian countries are the same
I cant for the life of me understand why some netizens equate the backlash against bad choices and presumed ignorance with the end of her career. Some idols have been taken outnof groups for less, true…. But why the everloving fuck.
Dear Cheryl, I disagree in the last video with this arguments "everybody is educated in school about the word war 2" because in my case I learn more about the world war 2, thanks to videos on UA-cam and movies than school, and the rest of the arguments against Chaeyoung are okay, no problem.
*Thanks to movies I know that German people were chasing Jewish people in many countries around Europe, no just Germany, One of those countries was France, that was really affected and had a lot of Jewish people, I know thanks to internet, that the black community in France is actually quiet large, so putting those things together, OF COURSE A BLACK PERSON CAN BE JEWISH!
We learn about WW2 in Korea... Most places are
@@Free_Palestine_75 I learn it by movies and stuff no by school, that is why the arguments feels flat to me, the argument could be "this is a well known topic" instead of "she most have learn it in school" you know what I mean, and also many of the thing you learn in school, you forget about it.
@@rowanjoy419 Yeah I know, I was just replying to this person saying they don't teach it on school. I've made the same argument you've made to other people
intention is something no one understands anymore
4:17 It is NOT true that people from the U.s are defending her, I don't know where you got that from. The backlash from Us stans is big on this one. On the other hand, MANY Asian people (especially from the Philippines) were defending her by using the ''Our education system is very different'' excuse. Just go take a look on the people defending her on her apology post and get your facts straight.
Im glad that more and more onces are holding chaeyoung accountable now.
Very insightful video, thank you ♡
I’m not defending her, I just don’t think she’s a n*zi. She’s one of the most open minded idols out there, it just wouldn’t make sense and NO that does NOT mean what she did was right, okay or even somewhat acceptable. And NO I am not american, I am european. I do not support her actions, but I also do not believe she hates jews because as I stated earlier she is one of the most open minded idols in the industry right now. I am FOR holding her accountable, but I am NOT for calling her a n*zi and taking advantage of this situation to hate (not critizise) her and the rest of twice (everglow-up does not do this, but a lot of people on tiktok and twitter are.)
Billboard had an article about it too, I don't think they're getting an award again... I would love to see that groupchat
“she apologized, move on” even with an apology, people are still going to be hurt. no one has to accept that apology, no one has to forgive her. people can even accept that apology, believe she was truly ignorant and didn’t know, yet still be disappointed. an apology doesn’t erase anything.
Koreans are not apolitical and they're not ignorant. Making the entire population of South Korea out to be sheltered babies who don't know nothing is insulting as fuck to Koreans. Idols 100% have political beliefs, they just can't express them because of the implications of being an idol. The most political you'll get in k pop is probably some BAP songs or some of the older BTS material that paint very vague critique of capitalism or the education system in a way that's still digestible in order to not be too polarising. If you want political criticism go listen to Korean music outside of k pop.
Thank you.. I’m polish, Australian and Scottish, and my polish heritage is very important specifically for my mum and granny, my great grandmother was transported to a labor camp during WW2. Though she survived, it was truely horrific for her. I truely respected chae but I just can’t defend it. It’s disgusting for a 23 year old to be so negligent about the worst mass genocide of all time
“Most of Korea is apolitical”??? This made me spit out my tea. This is a country that successfully mass protested to oust a Korean president. In the 80s and 90s, there were mass student protests against the government. Look up the Gwangju massacre
I took my world history lessons on the East side of the world and while yes, the Imperial Japan parts were emphasized, I did learn about European side as well. What we didn't learn then, however, was how the current public reactions would be if certain symbols are on display. So I can only wish to ask everyone to be patient and kind, as painful as it may be, and to educate not just the idols but the people around you in more open-minded discussion, because these topics are commonly avoided and lives under the rug for too long at a time and situation like this will just happen again in the most awkward times and places.
I stand behind kpop fans such as yourself to take the approach of withdrawing support and I hope some of the others will respond as healthily instead of other ways. I've seen a few too many posts on both sides of the extreme to not leave a piece of my thoughts somewhere. So thanks, EGU!
We learn about WW2 , the Nazis, and the Swastika in More, not all of the East has the same education...
Istg a once told us to leave chaeyoung alone and let her do what she wants
The way I was flabbergasted
Chaeyoung is my number 1 bias in kpop, but I'm disappointed to see all of this.. thank you for this video, I've learned something new today
I've seen so many people saying ignorant things but the amount of people saying "only people who arent jewish are mad about this" annoyed me so much. They've seen one comment from a jewish person that fits in their narrative and act like thats how all of them think. Some are mad and thats totally valid. But it annoys me also how they ignore that not "only" jewish people were effected by this. People with disabilities, people with mental illness, queer people and so on. All of them were effected by the holocaust. All of them were the target of a ideology, that used this symbol. It effected the whole world actually. Jewish people belong to the groups that suffered the most but everyone has a right to be mad about this. Many people could have been killed by this.
I hope my grammar is right because this is sensitive topic.
Yeah not talking about politics is one of the unspoken rules of kpop , I heard it in a interview.
But yeah she f*cked up and she knows it, she apologized. We can't act like we know what she thinks, that's the only thing I have a problem. I honestly just think she was trying to be edgy fashion wise , and made an extremely stupid mistake. I don't think she was making a political statement. But then again who knows right. Hope she has learnt from this
Yeah I’m definitely withdrawing support - I have to have boundaries with those kind of things. And people telling people not to be offended are what’s wrong with this world
i feel like this conversation lacks a lot of nuance. i am ethnically ashkenazi jewish btw. i think it was incredibly ignorant and hurtful, but i don’t think it’s something that was done on purpose. talking strictly about numbers and population, chaeyoung probably hasn’t met a whole lot of jewish people, especially in asia. there are less than 500 jewish people in south korea as a whole as of september 2021. it wouldn’t make sense for her to hold those extreme beliefs about a group that she’s most likely never come into contact with (except maybe in the us for brief periods of time, but how would she even be able to tell who is and isn’t jewish when there’s such a language barrier?). i think that she’s probably seen a swastika before, but i don’t know if she knows exactly what it’s connection to world war 2 is and the severity of the holocaust. from what i’ve seen and heard, ww2 is taught from an asian perspective in school, so they might not go that deep into the holocaust besides mentioning that it happened. that isn’t me saying that no one has the right to be angry over this, but i feel like there’s a perspective people aren’t considering.
We learn about WW2 and the Holocaust in Korea, it's in our media too she knew what it was we all do, you don't have to meet a Jewish people to be able to know what the Swastika is (Jewish people weren't even the only victims of the Holocaust)
The thing about Korea is (from someone who gre up there) if something doesn't offend Koreans they don't care. On Korea we know blackface, CA, mocking other cultures, etc is wrong and offensive but because it's not offensive to Koreans noone cares
@Camila The point I was trying to make was that it didn't seem intentional. That said, I wholeheartedly agree that she should have known better and that her schooling shouldn't be an excuse. I think that she can make a mistake, and it is unintentional yet still harmful. Thanks for your point of view!
What people don’t realize is YES chaeyoung did wrong whether she knew or not. She needs to be accountable. She was incredibly careless, insensitive and stupid. But so many people were saying she DEFINITELY knew and is lying on her apology letter. That’s where I draw the line.
Yall can be mad at her all she want because the consequences of her action IS really bad. It hurt many people. But stop lying and making a fool of yourself by saying she KNEW and DID IT ON PURPOSE/no way she didn’t know.
Because are you Korean? In Korea, the Buddhist swastika is quite common. There’s many stories of westerners who get shocked when they visit Korea and see the Buddhist swastika. Why? Because people think it’s the Nazi swastika. That’s how much it looks similar to people. When chae wore it, some Koreans commented “oops I thought it was the Buddhist one too…” meaning it actually IS possible for a Korean to mistaken it. You guys won’t know since you guys live in western countries where you wouldn’t see a Buddhist swastika on the streets. But to act like there’s “no way she didn’t know” and lie that she did it on purpose is actually stupid and you’re interpreting it solely from your western worldview and experiences.
Chaeyoung herself she didn’t realize the “tilted” swastika. There’s a chance that like other Koreans and even Americans who see the Buddhist swastika and think it’s the Nazi one, that chae didn’t recognize it was a tilted one-thought it was the Buddhist one. Should she not have bought it? Obviously. She was careless especially as a celebrity with global influence, she needs to be EXTRA careful with buying it. I get that she loves vintage shopping and most likely brought that shirt from Japan since there’s millions of copies of that sid vicious shirt in Japan and twice promotes in Japan a lot. But even if she’s casually vintage shopping in Japan, she should’ve DOUBLE CHECKED to pay attention to the shirt and wonder if it is Buddhist one or not (by the way, Japan, just like Korea also has Buddhist swastika).
So yes, I agree people should not defend her for wearing it. It was so dumb and I’m mad at her for being careless and inattentive like….???? You need to be careful and attentive to what you wear. But I’m also mad at people lying saying she definitely knew (because y’all don’t know about Korea and how Buddhist one is common and many people mistake the two) and also lie about her “going out of her way” cuz that shirt isn’t sold anywhere. Stop lying about her intentions and focus on criticizing her for the action.
Uhmm. K-netz already said that the fact that people think they don’t know it’s pure bs. Stop using that excuse I BEG YOU 😅
What irritated me the most about this situation was all the stans who suddenly became experts in the education system in Korea and how Koreans aren’t educated on WW2. As someone living in Korea, working in the education system here, Koreans absolutely know about WW2 and the Nazis. Yes the non-tilted swastika has a different meaning that is more known in Korea, but young Koreans generally know about the Nazis and WW2. We can even see this in how Koreans reacted online.
People who aren’t korean or have never lived in Korea need to stop acting like experts bc they read a Wikipedia article and watch pretty koreans dance 😑
And yeah, maybe Chaeyoung just didn’t realise and I highly doubt she’s a Nazi, but don’t blame her ignorance on being Korean. Blame it on her company not properly informing her on what she should/shouldn’t be doing (a common pattern in JYP groups, I must say…)
Judaism is a complex topic in and of itself, but tl;dr it's both ethnic and religious. Anyone can be a Jew by either of these criteria. A Jew by choice (aka a convert) is considered as Jewish as someone ethnically Jewish (aka whose mother is Jewish, it's inherited matrilineally, always through the mothers. Some religious branches also accept paternal heritage, and some branches require those people to undergo a formal conversion) even if that person practices a different religion or is a compete atheist. Jews live in almost every country on earth outside of Israel, and we come in every colour, this called the Jewish diaspora. For example, I'm from Finland! Religious Jews who follow the Torah (what Christians call the Old Testament, please don't use this term when talking to Jews, calling it the Hebrew Bible is more polite) do not consider Jesus divine, only G-d. Anyone who worships Jesus is a Christian, despite their Jewish heritage. I understand that this is probably really confusing to a lot of people, and it truly is. Scholars have debated these things for ages, there's even a saying "ask 2 Jews a question, get 3 opinions". There are many ways of becoming a Jew, being a Jew and living as a Jew, the best thing to do is to ask someone Jewish rather than assuming! I really hope Chaeyoung educates herself not only on Jews and Jewish history, but also the other groups who were targeted by the N*zis. OK I'm done sorry for the essay!!
I have an online friend who's Jewish and atheist, I also know a few Jewish people who are very into the religion, and some Christian Jewish people. People need to learn the difference between race, ethnicity, culture, religion, etc. The Jewish community is very diverse.
And thank you for pointing out the Jews were not the only people being targeted by the N*zis, that there were other groups. I happen to be one of the other groups of people (diagnosed with autism) who would have been "ethnically cleansed" from the "master race" because of the whole eugenics thing. Jewish people were just the main target. N*zis really were (and are) pieces of shit.
The energy people put into defending Chaeyoung , is the same energy that should be directed towards the actual victims!!
Btw great video and the editing slayyyyy
13:59 I agree there’s a fine line between protecting someone from receiving unnecessary hate and d threats and sweeping the situation under the rug because of said threats.
regardless of knowing or not, shouldn't this be an opportunity to learn? we're always saying "oh, idols don't know this thing" like when Namjoon was r@cist and now Chaeyoung with the n@z1 shirt, but wtf shouldn't they learn what's offensive at some point? will we all shield them forever? no...we should really let them face the consequences.
I’m surprised not many people know that Japan supported Germany during the war🧐and Germany in return supported Japan against Korea. Thats why America bombed Hiroshima because Japan was too buddy buddy with Germany 💁♀️
Korea being effected by WWII is a good point, but remember that during not just WWII, but WWI as well, Korea was occupied by Japan and basically cut off from the outside world. They were far too focused on their own plight to be thinking about or even aware of the plight of other people half way around the world. Which means, for that period of history, the focus in school is probably about Japanese occupation and Korean rebellion, rather than actual WWII.
(Anyone that actually knows is welcome to correct me on this.)
Also, the only thing I learnt about any war in school was my country’s involvement in wars. To learn more you had to choose modern history as an elective. So I wouldn’t be surprised to find that it’s similar in other countries, too.
And I gotta say, I think it’s funny people saying the ‘well if she does believe in nazism…’ like??? Nazism literally thinks she’s a person that doesn’t deserve to live. Why would she believe in it unless she’s delusional?? She hasn’t done anything to my knowledge that would point towards her being mentally ill in that way.
If she did know and just didn’t care or didn’t think about it and what people would think, then that’s shitty and I hope she learns her lesson. But I can believe that she didn’t know how bad it was or was almost completely unaware.
@@Blodhelm I know all this, too.
I mean we still learn about WW2 (despite what you said we were involved in it) and the Nazis like everyone else. Every other country (apart from maybe North Korea) learns about other countrie's history you don't think we do?
The core believe system of national socialism isn't necessarly that germanic people are inheritly superior. It's that certaij people groups are superior. Of COURSE for the Germans it was that germanics are superior but depending on what your race is you can believe that your race is the Superior one. The japanese during WW2 had a similliar ideal that they were the masters of Asia. Hitler even designated the japanese people as "Ehrenarier" so honorable aryans (Nazi Term for the supposed german master Race) to justify their cooperation.
@@Free_Palestine_75 the only thing I learnt about any major war was my country’s involvement in it… and I think we spent the most time on the Vietnam War
@@bevierschevier ah yeah, I know all this, too
When I first heard about this I was shocked. For some reason I assumed that schools all over the world taught this stuff and that she’d already know, guess I was wrong.
Cheryl, just wanna send a message to you and I hope you read this comment, but anyways 😅
Thank you so much for speaking your mind, for always researching and for educating everyone in this crazy community that is the kpop world. I am a 25 year old woman from Brazil, just graduated med school and started working and I found kpop to be one of the joys to help me heal myself from every day life and the hard work at my job, but it's so hard, just SO HARD to deal with the immature comments, hate comments and specially the lack of education regarding certain areas. Kpop idols, even for the meaning of an "idol", are suppose to be figures you would follow and kinda worship, if you really dig into researching their history in kpop and jpop, and that's why the scandals get so big regarding certain topics in South Korea and in the East Asia. But I think it's really alarming when other important topics, mainly regarding human rights, get so often violated or questioned and the fans, at the urge of "protecting thair idols", make less of a situation than what it really is. Thank you for being sensible, as always, and I know there may be one day where I may not agree with you, but you have 100% my respect for researching and trying to educate people and respect them at all times. Sorry for any grammar mistakes, love from Brazil (Brasil here)❤
You are a public figure so you have to pay attention to what you are posting on your social media. This is not the first time that this is happening, so when you buy something or post you should pay attention to what it indicate. I don't remember who, but I have seen a video where a group leader was looking at the clothes of another member to make sure that what was wrote wasn't problematic. Twice has been in the game for a long time and they should know better now.
How tf are you going to market outside of s korea and NOT study about countries outside of S KOREA.
Ikr
thank you for your commentary. you always vocalize a lot of my frustrations with the kpop industry. these past few days have really opened to my eyes to just how far some kpop stans will go for their favourite idols. it genuinely depresses me how people will willfully deceive themselves, just so they can continue seeing their idols as these perfect, infallible beings. even worse, they demand that other people do the same, insisting some controversies “aren’t that serious,” and that people need to get over it. i refuse to buy into that bullshit. no one is above criticism, especially not for something like _this._ people have the right to be upset, and share their feelings about it.
Didn't she already apologize
She did
as a person from a Post Soviet country, i agree with your opinion in both of your videos but there is one thing that bothered me a little. in 6:54 you mentioned that especially people who were in russia were really affected and you’re right, but it would be better if you said “people from USSR/Soviet countries” because during WW2 russia was not an independent country and it was a part of ussr along with 14 other countries and russians weren’t the only ones from ussr fighting against n@zi germany. not to mention that Belarus & Ukraine were like a living shield for russia..
me & other people from post soviet countries are tired of foreign people forgetting that there were other nations in ussr except for russians. i know some people are gonna disagree and say that it’s not that deep, but please keep in mind that ussr wasn’t just russians.
people need to realise you can only learn from a mistake if you know you made a mistake you need chastised to grow from what you've done
I don't usually get involved with these things but she should definitely get called out and accept responsiblity. I understand people's frustration with the apology and tbh it was honestly the worst. ONCEs protecting her is wrong as she should be held accountable but this is the first time she has shown these tendencies so I think it is also fair to assume that it could well be a mistake. The thing we need to now is that we aren't mind readers and while it was very offensive, it could be a single mistake. Granted its a massive mistake that holds a lot of weight I feel these days one mistake is all it takes to be labelled names such as n@zi and cancelled. I wont support her for a while but if she never makes the mistake again I feel I can believe it was a mistake
That's t'shirt are openly sales in market , online and even mass produced in japan. So who would to think that she be fcked up to wear that t-shirt .If you are a person saw that online or market without even knowing would are you even thinks that's a bad idea to wear it and aside the logo pattern was same of Buddhist which are common in Korea. So that case it's was an unintentionally mistakes and she apologized her mistakes . That's are important , if y'all can't accepted that apology ,you are not a human and you are a perfect that don't committed a mistakes.
I always hear people call twice unproblematic. I did not know people bury that shit.
As much as I would like to agree with the most of author's statements, at 6:55, she says that the war especially affected people from russia. As a Ukrainian, I must explain: in the part of the Second World War, which was called the Eastern Front (1941-45), one of the countries that fought against naz*sm was a now defunct country called the USSR. It was an association of 15 countries, among which, in addition to russia, there were also Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, and so on (it's easy to google). That's why, please, do not generalize and put an equal sign between the USSR and one russia. Other countries from the USSR were also very badly affected by the war and it is unlikely that people who live with this trauma want to hear how the only russia won the war.
Trust me those who hide their faves from their consequences are literally armys. Trust me onces are not even that bad.
Why are you bringing them here?
?
Every fandom, all stans, hide their faves from consequences.
It's a part of stan worship. They don't call it "bias" without a reason.
It makes no sense to single out ARMYs if Blinks, Fearnots, Dives, Bunnies, absolutely any fandom isn't exempt from this.
I really like your videos (both this and the last one). It’s refreshing to hear from a rational voice at a time like this.
I like Chaeyoung. I don’t know her personally but the things she has done and said in the years prior to this make her seem like she has merit. But at the end of the day, even good people need to be held accountable. Anyone can copy and paste an apology and switch the pronouns to their preference (seriously, her apology is LITERALLY the same as JYPE’s). Her apology is a start (sort of), but it’s not enough, simply because it’s too easy.
I think a suspension of some sort would be beneficial to fans, Chaeyoung, and the industry. Not only does this set a good example to fans and those in the industry, it would give Chae a serious motive to do better. It would be better if Chae got some sort of assignment to help her understand the “why” and not simply the “what”. Of course, this shouldn’t (and obviously wouldn’t) be the only consequence, but a huge step in the right direction.
twice are my ults, but this situation is genuinely so disappointing.
as an Indian hindu, i’ve seen the swastika in many religious settings and didn’t know about it being a nazi symbol until i was 12 or 13. idk about the education in sk but chaeyoung being a whole 23 year old should have known better. this is common history knowledge. it’s good that she apologised but i’m not jewish so i’m not in a position to accept or reject her apology. i just wish she educates herself and knows better in the future.
She would’ve been in jail if she wore the shirt in Germany. It’s absolutely taboo and illegal here. Two girls from my school once drew the Swastika on the walls (which is absolutely not ok), my friend was close with them at the time, and no one (including my friend) ever saw them again.
I think don’t think some ppl defending Chaeyoung are flirting w/ neo-nazism but are simply being apathetic towards the dangers of it. As you saw yourself, most of the ppl you’ve dealt w/ have no clue about history, politics, etc. and are very ignorant when they speak about these things.
They ignore politics and history unless it affects them or their fav, and in this case, it seems like these defenders are disregarding how walking around w/ a nazi swastika affects ppl other than Chaeyoung. They’re blinded by their love for their idol and are trying to shield her instead of truly educating her about her mistake. If she really didn’t know, they should be mad at the ppl in her company who did and still allowed her to wear those shirts. Getting mad at the ppl criticizing her (fairly) isn’t going to help her; it’s only going to make ppl distance themselves from her and the group as a whole.
it doesn’t apply since it literally just happened, but correlating it to your forgiving problematic idols vid its up to the individual fan to decide whether they no longer want to support or accept the situation and decide to continue; either one is valid as long as ppl aren’t delusional like it wasn’t a major f** up and sweep it away. Twice is literally trying to push into the western market so backlash is warranted. Since an apology was already released unless there’s more uproar they’ll wait for it to die down and never mention it again unfortunate but that’s how it usually goes…
The thing that gets me is she walked around in public with that shirt on… like where did she see think this was gonna go? 😵
People don't remember the intersectionality of being multiple things at the same time. I was thinking oh that interesting when Cheryl said she is Jewish, but I know that not all Jewish people are fair skinned people because Judaism has a wide range of ethnics. You can be ethnically Jewish, but your religion is another one, it's intersectionality.
Earlier than the chaeyoung fans ready to defend chaeyoung
criticism is fine what she did was obviously wrong but that doesn't excuse hate
Exactly. If you don’t support her and don’t agree with her actions despite her releasing an apology and explaining herself and removing the post that fine. Don’t. Remove yourself from anything to do with her on social media. But like I said before. For all those wishing death on her and wanting her to be miserable and for her life to be over, just because she made an ignorant mistake are disgusting people and your no better then what you believe her to be🤷🏻♂️. And for those using the opinions of fans to attack Chaeyoung as if their opinions are her own are also just as bad. Your not as morally correct as you want to be. Because in my opinion at face value. She wore a shirt with a symbol associated with terrorist and genocide, that’s bad I don’t agree with that as a Jewish myself. However she apologized and explained herself. I agree with that, I can accept her apology and explanation. Does that mean I think she shouldn’t be held accountable? No. Does that mean I think she can’t take responsibility? No. And the best part? She did both. She owned up to it. Removed the post, issued an apology and even explained herself, no matter how short or long the explanation was she did it. That’s taking responsibility and accountability. And she even went further to delete the post. I know so many idols and artist that wouldn’t have even done half of that. In fact there are artist and idols today that I still can’t believe are allowed to keep their careers with some of the things they actually support and openly do. I swear so many Kpop fans have got to be sadistic, you all want her life over and her career ruined or her dead over what I consider a misunderstanding and a poor decision. There is a fine line between holding someone accountable and harassing and bullying them for the sake of making yourself feel like your upholding justice. This controversy isn’t even a week old and people are wishing death on her and asking for her to be removed from Twice and her contract terminated. If this is how Kpop fans are going to deal with every single controversy and scandal things will never get better and we will always continue to lose idols to suicide and ridiculous contract terminations. Like for once think about someone else other then yourselves. Do you seriously think Chaeyoung who has posed with Jewish fans and taken numerous photos with them aligns with these beliefs morals???? She likely feels terrible. The Chaeyoung I know is very sensitive and loves everyone. So I ask you all to just remove your support and leave her alone if you don’t agree with her actions but stop with all the unnecessary internet bullying and harassment. Do better and be better, I don’t know about anyone else but I’m tired of losing idols to this bs that goes on in this community. You people seriously make me sick sometimes. And no nothing I’m saying is towards Everglow but towards those of you that use her videos as a way to justify your hate, bullying and harassment towards Chaeyoung.
Thank you 🙏🏻
What does she mean by “twice has gotten away with so much crap” ? this is literally the first time they messed up. They’ve been in the industry for over 7 years and they’ve been nothing but sincere. Twice is literally the sweetest gg in kpop.
@@aminioss I’m not particularly sure what she means. I have not seen many twice scandals but I believe maybe she has personal opinions about some things that twice may have done in the past. But from what I know of Everglow she is very factual and receipts oriented so maybe she knows of something’s that twice may have done that some communities or religions or even country’s wouldn’t have agreed with. Personally I wouldn’t focus so much on that part of her video as I’m not particularly sure what she’s talking about in that regard. I have been following twice sense day one, but I also didn’t watch and keep up with every little thing they’ve done
She literally said "woops didn't notice the nazii symbol lol soz" and that's it, there is literally no reason she wouldn't have known about the Naxi symbol. She deserves to be called out for this, not everyone is going to excuse her because there's no reason to
@@aminioss Indian Jihyo? Jihyo being straight up racist in stage in front of thousands of people? Momo's CA? Those are just a few things from the top of my head
atp people need to stop assuming everyone is defending chaeyoung's actions and realise the people are also protecting her from the death threats
All I can say is that this scenario reminds me of SNSD tiffany posting a snapchat with the japanese "rising sun" flag on Korea's Independence Day. Not knowing the symbols meaning is the same. The backlash is almost similar too.
I think Chaeyoung and Twice as a whole should have to undergo sensitivity training because of this. I also agree with those who want a video apology from her. In that order, so that when she delievers the second apology she'll have fully understood the severity of wearing that symbol.
I'm also going to repeat my comment on the previous video that you'd be surprised just how little some people are taught about the holocaust. All I remember from school is a survivor visiting for one day to give a speech, and I'm in CANADA. I genuinely believe she either thought it was the Hindu symbol (yes, I know they're different, but be real here, they can be easily mixed up), thought that since it was on a shirt it must not be that serious in the west, or not known what it meant at all, because let's be honest, no idol who's supposed to be neutral on all stances would be stupid enough to knowing wear something this severe, multiple times no less.
So intention? I don't think there was any. But the impact of that symbol alone is enough to warrant accountability.
I also think that she did not itend to harm anyone, but there is a german saying that goes basically ignorance does not protect one from punishment. So she should apologize for this with more than a 6 sentence statement on instagram, like idk maybe release a video with a genuine apology and show that u actually understand the gravity of the situation. Especially after such a huge public out cry. I hope she really learns from this. I grew up in Germany and here she would have been arrested for wearing that shirt, so yes it is that serious.
@@xylypotatohead3947 I agree completely! I think ideally, the company would put out a statement that the group will undergo the sensitivity training I mentioned, THEN chaeyoung would release a video apology. Just apologising when you haven't learned anything doesn't come across as genuine to me.
We learn about the Holocaust and the Nazis pretty in-depth in Korea, people know what happened, they know what the Nazi symbol is and why it's bad
The Swastika is visibly different to the Hindu symbol and it's Sid Vicious who was known for wearing Nazi symbols...
Honestly thank you for clearing up the entire you can be of jewish ethnicity and follow Christianity. I'm not a jewish person or a Christian and this was a little hard to understand but now I think I do.
And about those people defending chaeyoung's behaviour and saying feelings of the offended party don't matter, please get some help and surround yourself with loving individuals. Much love to you.
I've also seen people on twitter saying that she probably didn't know about the entire swastika situation and I just cackled. I'm from India and for us the swastika is an entirely different meaning here. It's considered sacred and auspicious and you'll see it in so many places like houses, invitations etc yet we here in India are taught world history and we do know what the nazi swastika stands for. I'm pretty sure Chaeyoung went to school and there is absolutely no way that any school around the world doesn't teach students the most important events in world history and the world war being the biggest of them dare I say.
It's sad how some fans become so delusional that when groups become extremely famous they suddenly also become free of receiving any criticism. Onces are a great example of picking and choosing who to drag.
8:00 I still remember when Twice promoted a skin bleaching product the same month Sorn was wrongfully accused of colorism and promoting skin bleaching, even though none of the skin care products she promoted were used for that. Somehow no one remembers the Twice incident yet Sorn became the punching bag of Kpop for the reminder of that year
Since 2019 I’ve been a chaeyoung bias. I finally decided that I can’t support her anymore. I believe she didn’t mean any harm but I just don’t buy her “I didn’t know” apology. I’m from Ireland that wasn’t really involved with WW2 and we don’t really have any Jewish people but I completely understand that you can’t defend these actions. WW2 brought on the Korean War so this does affect Korea, stans can act like it doesn’t but the history isn’t lying. She definitely knows the basics of World War 2
Stans when the idol wears a rainbow shirt: 😍they support gay people🥳😍
Stans when idols wear swastikas/racist symbols: 🥺 they dont understand what it means/ its just a shirt!😤
Say it louder!!
I think the reason Once try to hide and brush of the problematic/hurtful things Twice have done is because of the garbage that Twice went through, specifically at the beginning at of their career.
Twice was formed through the survival show Sixteen. Tzuyu having to apologize for the flag situation.
Twice was the biggest punching bag of kpop stans from 2015 to probably 2017. I remember their first comeback, MR removed videos became insanely popular due to people using them to degrade Twice.
Even more recently both Mina and Jeongyeon had to go on hiatus due to anxiety and Jihyo also talked about her dealing with anxiety and depression. There was also Sana getting tons of crap due to an Instagram post she made.
I think Once have developed a VERY strong defensive reaction to any sort of criticism because of it. So unfortunately whenever Twice does any genuinely bad things, Onces have been unintentionally trained to protect and reject the criticism.
It kind of reminds me of a story I read before. One character was terribly abused for a long time. Once their partner learned about what happened, he became VERY overprotective. The boyfriend refused to leave them alone and didn't let anyone get remotely close to them. Eventually they were forced to be apart for a good while and both receive therapy.
I understand why Once are so protective of Twice and are quick to brush stuff under the rug. They're traumatized. However, no matter how traumatized you are, it does not mean it's okay to downplay others' issues and lash out at others.
To be honest, this is how I see Wonyoung's fan base turning out in a few years. Cause honestly the crap she's dealing with is worse than what Twice dealt with. Once the Wonyoung hate train dies down, her fan base will probably become the new Army/Once/Stay.
I love your channel and your videos. Thanks for continually bringing some insight and common sense.
yas,finally another african kpop stan